NationStates Jolt Archive

Hm? HM? Anyone? Can anyone give me a clear no BS definiton of what a Friggin' Neocon is? Is it some sort of New Conservative? Is it a mythical beast that feasts on the blood of mountain goats? Is the President one? Are the people who don't want to pull out of Iraq NeoConservatives? Someone, open up and tell me what it means.

Well you can always count on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_in_the_United_States) for reliability

Hm? HM? Anyone? Can anyone give me a clear no BS definiton of what a Friggin' Neocon is?
It's a synonym for the word "fuckwit".

Well you can always count on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_in_the_United_States) for reliability
Wikipedia, where you're no better than the last hack who edited it.

Good times.

I miss the paleocons, they weren't hawkish at least.

It's a synonym for the word "fuckwit".

I think Cahnt has the definition right there.

I think Cahnt has the definition right there.
Then I must ask, what the hell is a fuckwit?

Wikipedia, where you're no better than the last hack who edited it.

You do realise that articles are checked for things like neutral point of view, accuracy, etc? Also, they keep a history of each page, so you can check what edits were made. Some articles even include what references were used.

Still not perfect, but not terrible either.

Then I must ask, what the hell is a fuckwit?

Wikipedia has this to say about Neocons
Historically, neoconservatives supported a militant anticommunism, tolerated more social welfare spending than was sometimes acceptable to libertarians and mainstream conservatives, supported civil equality for blacks and other minorities, and sympathized with a non-traditional foreign policy agenda that was less deferential to traditional conceptions of diplomacy and international law and less inclined to compromise principles even if that meant unilateral action. Indeed, domestic policy does not define neoconservatism — it is a movement founded on, and perpetuated by an aggressive approach to foreign policy, free trade, opposition to communism during the Cold War, support for beleaguered liberal democracies such as Israel and Taiwan and opposition to Middle Eastern and other states that are perceived to support terrorism.

Basically, neoconservatism is a when a centrist who is leaning somewhat to the left refuses to recognize the fact that they are, in fact, liberal, and so mixes their views with a few uberconservative ones. Hence the term 'fuckwit', meaning somebody who votes not on what they truly believe in, but on something that sounds like a coherent political philosophy.

edit: whoops...fixed a typo

After the Decepticons were defeated and the autobots regained control of Cybertron followingthe battle against Unicron, the desperate and patriotic remnants of the Decepticon army began a series of lightning-strike raids to acquire energon and materials, and for a while were called Neocons by some, since their leadership was presumed destroyed. Not too long afterwards however, Galvatron resurfaced and the name no longer stuck.

A neoconservative is a standard conservative who, regarding external threats as more pressing demands upon the government of the USA, are willing to exchange traditionally liberal "big government" policies to enact legislation that allows the nation to pursue a militant foreign policy to deal with either percieved or real external threats, sometimes both. Neocon's retain the traditional conservative prediliction for a pro-business economic climate and religious leanings while rejecting the small-government ideal as too anachronistic, preferring to concentrate power in the hands of the executive branch of government, the better for quick and sharp reforms that might take too long if at all to push through a recalcitrant congress.

It's a synonym for the word "fuckwit".
You mean kinda like "Cahnt" is a synonym for "asshot?" :D

It is from Transformers.
Tiny hard working robot thingy.
....................:.P

Neo-conservative. Takes the good part of conservatism (support of free trade) and replaces it with the bad part of liberalism (Socialism). Creates a political leaning that discourages political and economic freedom.

After the Decepticons were defeated and the autobots regained control of Cybertron followingthe battle against Unicron, the desperate and patriotic remnants of the Decepticon army began a series of lightning-strike raids to acquire energon and materials, and for a while were called Neocons by some, since their leadership was presumed destroyed. Not too long afterwards however, Galvatron resurfaced and the name no longer stuck.

Yeah, after which they were sometimes call "Crazycons" because Galvatron was such a nutter. It must have sucked being Cyclonus with post-Unicron Galvy in command. I'm surprised he didn't have more dents in his cranium. Poor Cyclonus.

Neo - chosen one, supreme powers, ability to take down the machines, but does so in Jesus-like self-sacrificing fashion.

Con - one who plays a ficticious role in order to gain money.

Neocon - Keanu Reeves

It's a synonym for the word "fuckwit".

Which is a synonym for "asshat" and for "smacktard" and reflects just as poorly on the person who uses it.

Which is a synonym for "asshat" and for "smacktard" and reflects just as poorly on the person who uses it.
Really, anybody who dumps all the bits of conservatism that are worth saving hardly deserves to be treated with a great deal of respect. These people are hardly Roosevelt or Ted Heath, are they?

Really, anybody who dumps all the bits of conservatism that are worth saving hardly deserves to be treated with a great deal of respect. These people are hardly Roosevelt or Ted Heath, are they?



All the same, there are better words.

"Scum" never goes out of fashion.

All the same, there are better words.

"Scum" never goes out of fashion.
Given that Reagan's generally credited with dragging this one into American politics, "scum" is a good one, it's true.

Really, anybody who dumps all the bits of conservatism that are worth saving hardly deserves to be treated with a great deal of respect. These people are hardly Roosevelt or Ted Heath, are they?
You can't be serious. Neoconservatives are better than conservatives. Conservatives are capitalist, exploiting pigs, who also think for no logical reason that religion should run everyone's life.

Roosevelt and Ted Heath were not conservatives. In fact, Roosevelt was a neocon.

You can't be serious. Neoconservatives are better than conservatives. Conservatives are capitalist, exploiting pigs, who also think for no logical reason that religion should run everyone's life.

Roosevelt and Ted Heath were not conservatives. In fact, Roosevelt was a neocon.
And there was me thinking that it was Reagan who handed over the Republican party to the religious right, rather than Roosevelt. One lives and learns.

You can't be serious. Neoconservatives are better than conservatives. Conservatives are capitalist, exploiting pigs, who also think for no logical reason that religion should run everyone's life.

Neocons use religion. Conservatives do not. Conservatives are for seperation of church and state.

And there was me thinking that it was Reagan who handed over the Republican party to the religious right, rather than Roosevelt. One lives and learns.
Where did I mention the religious right? In any case, the religious right has more to do with these traditionalist, isolationist conservatives you love, rather than the neocons. Wikipedia makes clear that neocons are mainly about foreign policy, and that they don't have this rabid opposition to big government that conservatives do.

Neocons use religion. Conservatives do not. Conservatives are for seperation of church and state.
Not at all. Just look at Pat Buchanan.

The neocons who are in power now are not the ideological kindred of the religious right in the way that conservatives are. Bush and Co. just use the religious nuts because they're politically convenient.

Not at all. Just look at Pat Buchanan.
Buchanan is not a conservative, although he claims to be. He wants religion in government, which is at odds with conservative ideaology. I'd describe him as a theocrat.

Buchanan is not a conservative, although he claims to be. He wants religion in government, which is at odds with conservative ideaology. I'd describe him as a theocrat.
Conservative ideology has always involved religion in government to some degree. Are you sure you are not thinking of Libertarianism?

Conservative ideology has always involved religion in government to some degree. Are you sure you are not thinking of Libertarianism?
No, I'm thinking of conservatism. Strict constitutionalism to be precise.

Where did I mention the religious right?
Conservatives are capitalist, exploiting pigs, who also think for no logical reason that religion should run everyone's life.

The neocons who are in power now are not the ideological kindred of the religious right in the way that conservatives are. Bush and Co. just use the religious nuts because they're politically convenient.
Right. Bush has not opened the war over creationism again, overturned State's rights to allow gay marriage, or started making moves to remove women's right to have an abortion in order to endear himself to people who send Pat Robertson money.

No, I'm thinking of conservatism. Strict constitutionalism to be precise.
But isn't it the Libertarian Party which claims to be strictly Constitutionalist?

Right. Bush has not opened the war over creationism again, overturned State's rights to allow gay marriage, or started making moves to remove women's right to have an abortion in order to endear himself to people who send Pat Robertson money.
Bush has not done any of these things, though other Republicans have done so. For his religious rhetoric, you should notice that upon closer inspection, Bush hardly does anything about it. It's obvious that he just says these things to get votes from the Pat Robertson fans. He doesn't actually believe most of it.

Bush has not done any of these things, though other Republicans have done so. For his religious rhetoric, you should notice that upon closer inspection, Bush hardly does anything about it. It's obvious that he just says these things to get votes from the Pat Robertson fans. He doesn't actually believe most of it.
Come off it. If he disagreed with any of this behaviour, he'd make an effort to reign his party in over this nonsense, and he's never done anything of the sort. He may just be doing it to endear his party to the religious right, but he's still doing it, so they're exploiting him, rather than vice versa.

Neo conservatives are globalising uber capitalists who believe in multi national companies.

old conservatives were uber capitalists who believed in countries

Neo conservatives are globalising uber capitalists who believe in multi national companies.

old conservatives were uber capitalists who believed in countries
That's rather a nice way of breaking it down. I like that one.

Come off it. If he disagreed with any of this behaviour, he'd make an effort to reign his party in over this nonsense, and he's never done anything of the sort. He may just be doing it to endear his party to the religious right, but he's still doing it, so they're exploiting him, rather than vice versa.
Why should he reign in his party? He's getting millions of extra votes without having to seriously do anything to satisfy these voters.

We're wandering off-topic. Let's look at what we find on Wikipedia again:

Historically, neoconservatives supported a militant anticommunism, tolerated more social welfare spending than was sometimes acceptable to libertarians and mainstream conservatives, supported civil equality for blacks and other minorities, and sympathized with a non-traditional foreign policy agenda that was less deferential to traditional conceptions of diplomacy and international law and less inclined to compromise principles even if that meant unilateral action. Indeed, domestic policy does not define neoconservatism — it is a movement founded on, and perpetuated by an aggressive approach to foreign policy, free trade, opposition to communism during the Cold War, support for beleaguered liberal democracies such as Israel and Taiwan and opposition to Middle Eastern and other states that are perceived to support terrorism.
The reasons in bold are why I think neo-conservatives are better than these other conservatives that exist. In fact judging by the description, JFK was pretty much a neo-conservative.

Neo conservatives are globalising uber capitalists who believe in multi national companies.

old conservatives were uber capitalists who believed in countries
Pfft. Mere sloganeering. What these vague statements appear to mean is that conservatives support tariffs and that neocons support free trade.

I am throughly confused now. So instead of saying I always vote republican or am neo-con or a conservative, I hve anrrowed it down to this =

I am a = Communist hating (with a passion), Capitalist Loving (damn right), Patriotic, Religious person


One thing I noticed, this forum in no way reflects the real public whether American (especially American) , because I see way to many Crazy Marxists (lol, poor delusional fools) , Commies (even more F**** up in the head) , Anarchists (....I believe the name says everything....).
In real life, People are usually more conservative, and if some people would say half the stuff they say here during work or other social aspects, they would get fired, or what not, so I realised, because all theses super lefties cannot speak openly about there ideals in rea life without being ridiculed or worse, they come here, where they the super minority, becomes a slightly bigger minority/majority.
I believ I hit the hammer on the nail ;)

Neo-Con, short for a person posing as a conservative to gain support from the American public, despite not having any more to do with being a conservative than homo weddings.

Neo-Cons believe in big government. They believe imperialism is the highest art. They firmly believe that welfare is for the top 5% rich people, and that taxes is how to apply that philosophy. They both socially & economically authoritarians, though with slight modifications. Social authoritarianism to them means frightning populations & if that fails, monitoring their every move & beating them to shit if they step out of line. Their economic authoritarian trip is not about having business work in the interest of the population, but rather having business earn as much money as possible for themselves; diverting taxes into the pockets of investors is what taxes are all about to a neocon.

Personally I love them. When they're dead.

Why should he reign in his party? He's getting millions of extra votes without having to seriously do anything to satisfy these voters.

We're wandering off-topic.
We're not, actually. You stated that neocons are not trying to bring religion into politics. I pointed out a number of ways in which Bush is dancing around in a g string and high heels to keep the religious right happy, then you decided that this doesn't actually prove that the chimp is accomodating the godbotherers who wanted to bring Religion into politics, and tried to change the subject.
And he should reign in his party because this bullshit is riding roughshod over people's civil liberties. I'd have thought that was obvious. If he isn't then he doesn't have any problem with it.

n real life, People are usually more conservative, and if some people would say half the stuff they say here during work or other social aspects, they would get fired, or what not, so I realised, because all theses super lefties cannot speak openly about there ideals in rea life without being ridiculed or worse, they come here, where they the super minority, becomes a slightly bigger minority/majority.
I believ I hit the hammer on the nai
Actually no, it's just America where any vaguely left leaning sentiments are likely to get you run out of town.

no it means that the old ones were working in the interests of rich people (who owned the buisnesses) in their country

neo conservatives are working in the interests of rich people genenerally

either that or they think that they are in a communist matrix.......
(sorry couldn't resist)

this thread is hilarious

i voted a 5


it's nice being able to count on lefties to make fools of themselves :)

I am throughly confused now. So instead of saying I always vote republican or am neo-con or a conservative, I hve anrrowed it down to this =

I am a = Communist hating (with a passion), Capitalist Loving (damn right), Patriotic, Religious person


One thing I noticed, this forum in no way reflects the real public whether American (especially American) , because I see way to many Crazy Marxists (lol, poor delusional fools) , Commies (even more F**** up in the head) , Anarchists (....I believe the name says everything....).
In real life, People are usually more conservative, and if some people would say half the stuff they say here during work or other social aspects, they would get fired, or what not, so I realised, because all theses super lefties cannot speak openly about there ideals in rea life without being ridiculed or worse, they come here, where they the super minority, becomes a slightly bigger minority/majority.
I believ I hit the hammer on the nail ;)

Bhahahaha! Your the best parody of a consverative I've seen on this forum so far

Bhahahaha! Your the best parody of a consverative I've seen on this forum so far
Pantycellen did a pretty good one as well, mind.

Their economic authoritarian trip is not about having business work in the interest of the population, but rather having business earn as much money as possible for themselves; diverting taxes into the pockets of investors is what taxes are all about to a neocon.
.

Business was never supposed to work in the interests of the population. Business works in the interest of itself and those who invest in it, and their interest is maximizing profit so they get the biggest return on their investment. That's the backbone of our entire, and massively successful, economy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a company maximizing its profit as long as it follows the law.

sorry I haven't been paradeing at all so far

i'm giving you a definition on how they act rather then on what they say

Neo-Conservatives are a dangerous set of leftists who have in their young years combined Trotskyism (exporting the revolution to other countries) with Shachtmanism (hate the USSR even more than the Capitalists).
That was in Reagan's times.

Today they have turned their backs on Communism, but they keep the methods - knowing the absolute truth (ie American-Style Democracy and what comes with it) and not being shy about using violence to export it into other countries ("Regime-Change").

If you want more info on the most influential Neo-Con Groups around, see
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
American Enterprise Institute (http://www.aei.org/)

But isn't it the Libertarian Party which claims to be strictly Constitutionalist?

They claim many things. Some of them are even true.

A neo-con is like a conservative, except they don't get involved with all of that pesky small-govenment and constitutional stuff. Oh, and curently Jesus tells their presidential candidates what to do.

It's a synonym for the word "fuckwit".close enough

Neocon: In general, big-government centrists at home, who in foreign policy hold to the idea of "democratic-peace, basically the idea that constitutional liberal democracies don't go to war with each other.

Also used as a slur against Jews who don't vote for the democrats.

The "religious" stuff has more to do with rhetoric than reality. You don't win elections in America unless God or Jesus is mentioned every minute in your speeches, so the GOP mentions it becasue they like winning elections.

...in foreign policy hold to the idea of "democratic-peace, basically the idea that constitutional liberal democracies don't go to war with each other."
And that therefore they have to force that form of government on everyone - with war and threats, because they do not believe that any other form of government can possibly adhere to agreements and treaties.
Also rather opposed to multinational organisations.

Is Bush a Neo-Con? No, I don't think George W. is - he doesn't really have an intellectual history, he just does what he's told. And I'm not implying that he's dumb (although I believe he is), it's just that that is the only thing he's ever done, in business and in politics.

Cheney is though...as is Jeb Bush.