NationStates Jolt Archive

Bush wants to Prevent Military Sale to Rival.

Washington's feud with Chavez may lead it to block Spain's plan to deal boats and aircraft containing American technology to Caracas.


MEXICO CITY November 24, 2005— In another sign of estrangement between the United States and Venezuela, Washington is holding up the sale of eight Spanish patrol boats and 12 military aircraft to the South American nation because they contain U.S.-made technology.

The State Department confirmed Wednesday that the Bush administration had objected to the $1.5-billion sale. Eduardo Aguirre, the U.S. ambassador to Spain, said the sale could be a "destabilizing factor."

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/latimes940.html

Source?

link was added after SP post...

Bush can go and get f*cked.

Not only is there no feasible way for Chavez to use these weapons against the US (unless the US attacks him), but even if there was, Spain still has the right to sell its stuff to anyone they would want to.

"American Technology" my butt. If you sell a friend something, and he decides to sell it to someone else, then that is his decision. That's what property rights are, remember? No moral interference in other people's business.

This is the same bullshit as the EU/China Embargo. There are billions to be made, and US Neocon Warhawks are scared their next campaign could get a little more difficult if their enemy can defend himself for a change.

This is the same bullshit as the EU/China Embargo. There are billions to be made, and US Neocon Warhawks are scared their next campaign could get a little more difficult if their enemy can defend himself for a change.

That's right! It's nothing to do with the fact giving China advanced arms would allow it to steamroll over the "rogue province" of Taiwan even more easily, it's all about those damn neocons!

Let them buy the weapons. It makes Chavez spend money and makes his military in even better shape for when we need it to depose him in a coup.

Nice job OD2 you managed to get Bush and Chavez in the same title. So does that count twice on postings? Im still keeping track in my handy note book of "Keeping track of OceanDrive post count". ;)

What if GW doesnt want Chavez to have any more weapons? If he can actually influence someone not to sell them then so be it. Chavez has made it very clear that he hates Bush. So why shouldnt Bush poke a finger in his eye? I cant remember a thing that Bush ever said or done that could be considered hateful against Chavez.

This is the same bullshit as the EU/China Embargo. There are billions to be made, and US Neocon Warhawks are scared their next campaign could get a little more difficult if their enemy can defend himself for a change.
Cuck Fapitalism!

I'm no neocon and I am against the EU selling arms to China. The Chinese government is evil.

I also don't see why Chavez should be buying this military technology.

Bush can go and get f*cked.

Not only is there no feasible way for Chavez to use these weapons against the US (unless the US attacks him), but even if there was, Spain still has the right to sell its stuff to anyone they would want to.

"American Technology" my butt. If you sell a friend something, and he decides to sell it to someone else, then that is his decision. That's what property rights are, remember? No moral interference in other people's business.

This is the same bullshit as the EU/China Embargo. There are billions to be made, and US Neocon Warhawks are scared their next campaign could get a little more difficult if their enemy can defend himself for a change.


Ok, first off there are contracts when buying US weaponary. The contracts to my understanding say that the equipment cannot be traded/shipped or sold to a third party without US approval. So this is a contract dispute like any business transaction.

The EU/China deal. Sure the EU can sell whatever tech they want. But the simple fact is that a "friend" of yours doesnt want you to do it because China could be a rival in the future. There is a real threat with Taiwan in this matter. Dont think for a second a war between the US and China wouldnt affect Europe. So why sell weapons to a potential enemy? I dont think thats hawkish at all. Thats just playing it smart.

Ok, first off there are contracts when buying US weaponary. The contracts to my understanding say that the equipment cannot be traded/shipped or sold to a third party without US approval. So this is a contract dispute like any business transaction.
Not that I would agree with the contracts (and the Spanish government might have to reconsider signing more of them if this is the way things are played). And it would be good to know what type of boats and planes this is about, cuz half the Spanish Arsenal is German-made anyways and it may be good to know whose technology it also concerns.
Ultimately this may very well be about a little GPS chip in the boats' computers that may be from the US, and that's why they are going to cost Spanish firms millions in revenue.

The EU/China deal. Sure the EU can sell whatever tech they want. But the simple fact is that a "friend" of yours doesnt want you to do it because China could be a rival in the future.
The question is whether that is enough of a reason. The idea of "rival" is incomprehensible to me - as if every country in the world didn't have the right to become as strong as it wanted to (and besides, China has everything it takes, and will do so regardless of what the EU does - the EU needs to get its own shit together first before it matters again).

There is a real threat with Taiwan in this matter. Dont think for a second a war between the US and China wouldnt affect Europe. So why sell weapons to a potential enemy? I dont think thats hawkish at all. Thats just playing it smart.
And I believe the very idea that a Taiwan conflict would even concern the US is the hawkishness there.
It's a China vs China thing, and neither the PRC nor the Taiwanese Government would want to blow this out of proportion. The fact of the matter is that both sides could sit down and talk something out, if it wasn't for constant US comments and involvement in the matter - borne afterall out of the Cold War, 56 years ago.

Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Chavez is buying Spanish weaponry. So what? It's not like Venezuela's going to invade anything, Chavez isn't like that. All he wants is defense - all left-leaning governments in South America, all of them, were couped out. By who, I wonder? Hmmm..

And I believe the very idea that a Taiwan conflict would even concern the US is the hawkishness there.
It's a China vs China thing, and neither the PRC nor the Taiwanese Government would want to blow this out of proportion. The fact of the matter is that both sides could sit down and talk something out, if it wasn't for constant US comments and involvement in the matter - borne afterall out of the Cold War, 56 years ago.

Well here lies the problem. To my concerne when I first heard of this. The US has pledged to defend Taiwan. This wasnt my doing or wish truly. However it has been done. China by its own doings has made it clear that they want Taiwan in there fold. They say they want it "back". However they never were in control of "it". So that is probably why the US supports the Tawain position. Its a tough one with alot of implications if it goes wrong. I wouldnt want to have to fight China over Taiwan. But again it isnt up to me. I suppose I could be called into the regular Army again. then it would be a problem of mine. But as your suggestion for talking it through. That seems the most sane way of dealing with the situation. However the defensive posture of the US and China over this matter muddles the chance for a peaceful solution.

Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Chavez is buying Spanish weaponry. So what? It's not like Venezuela's going to invade anything, Chavez isn't like that. All he wants is defense - all left-leaning governments in South America, all of them, were couped out. By who, I wonder? Hmmm..

So he wants to strengthen his military so it can depose him more easily when the US wants it to? I'm confused.

Bush can go and get f*cked.

Not only is there no feasible way for Chavez to use these weapons against the US (unless the US attacks him), but even if there was, Spain still has the right to sell its stuff to anyone they would want to.

"American Technology" my butt. If you sell a friend something, and he decides to sell it to someone else, then that is his decision. That's what property rights are, remember? No moral interference in other people's business.

This is the same bullshit as the EU/China Embargo. There are billions to be made, and US Neocon Warhawks are scared their next campaign could get a little more difficult if their enemy can defend himself for a change.
Jeeze. man! You need to calm down before you blow a gasket or something! Sheesh! :D

Jeeze. man! You need to calm down before you blow a gasket or something! Sheesh! :D
It's just a lot of things coming together right now.

1) I don't know what Bush's problem is with Venezuela. I seem to have missed the time when they just kinda invented "Cuba II".

2) I don't think the US has any right to tell the rest of the world who should be powerful and who shouldn't.

3) I'm kinda grumpy because of the whole "US ignoring European Sovereignty (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455987)" issue.

4) Spain could use the money, it is not exclusively US technology, and so I don't see why free trade between two nations should be subject to the whims of a third country, regardless which country that is.