NationStates Jolt Archive

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.

Heh, I've had this problem a lot lately. But it never goes over well.

Them: "Is Michigan a state, or a city?"
Me: "Well, techinically both. There's the State of Michigan, and then there's Michigan City somewhere in Indiana I think."
Them: "What? Its not like Florida in Michigan?"
Me: "Umm...no."
Them: "Do you know *insert random athelete here*?"
Me: "Sorry, nope."
Them: "But he/she is very famous, best in the world from *insert random period of time here*" OR "He/she is American, why don't you know them?"
Me: "You expect way too much of me. I only like American Football you know." "America has a lot of athelites, and you expect me to know about European athelites as well?" OR "I'm supposed to know every detail of world current events, to be able to speak another language, of which I had never heard a single word of except for "smörgåsbörd" in Charlette's Web when I was five, all about Europe and its history, even classical music, all about American history, including the War of 1812 in which we almost lost our independence against, or so you say, and -"
Them: "You haven't been to California? What about Minnissota, there's lots of Swedish people there. Oh, and I have family in Washington, have you been there? Do you know if the colleges in Ohio are good? What do you think of Bush? What does this word mean in Enlgish? Can you give me a synonim? How -"
Me: "Stop, stop, stop! America's a big place. I've never been West of St. Louis, no I don't know about the colleges in Ohio, I live in Michigan. I'm not supposed to get political, I'm living abroad. I don't know what that word means in English, I speak American English. That there is English-English. I don't know a synonim to that either, I don't even know what an indirect object is, or a claus. Et cetera..."

Wow, feels good to get that out of my system. Thanks for making this thread!

Anyhow, I must apoligize to all reading this, as deep down, I'm just a small town American red-neck. This whole "knowing your world around you" stuff, and being knowledgeable about the world is way harder when you try to not be baised. As there are regional differences between every country, with maybe the exception of Island. And since were all supposed to avoid sterotyping, and promote multi-national understanding, its best to represent the small town or county, maybe even big city, you come from. Its what you know the best. So, don't ask me about English grammar or anything, and what the people are like in Ohio (I'm supposed to not like them, college football rivalries here). Ask me about camping, fishing, and hunting. That stuffs great, but I'm not going to share any tips with y'all. :D

I am a Canadian and I think that in some ways I know more about American history and culture than I do about Canadian history and culture. For instance, I could easily name several of America's founding fathers (Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Washington, Jay, Paine, etc.) but would be hard pressed to name any of the fathers of confederation other than John A. MacDonald. I know that Woodrow Wilson was president during the first world war and that FDR was president during the second, but I have no idea who was Prime Minister During that time. I'm more familier with the American Constitution than with the Canadian one.

I think the reason for this is that because America is such an influencial country, it is more beneficial to know about it than to know about Canada, even though I live there. And I think it is the same way in many European countries. The Swiss, for example, likely keep an eye on what America is up to, but they would be surprised if any American did the same to them, so if an American makes a comment about Switzerland they're reaction would likely be "what do you know" even if they wouldn't hesitate to comment about America.

But now the irony of this whole thing has dawned on me: this is a thread about the inappropriatness of Europeans commenting on America, and here I am, a Canadian, poking my nose into it. Still, it seems a shame to delete this thing (especially after I went to the effort of flexing my knowledge of Americam history) so I'm going to post it anyway. Take it as you will.

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Straw man.

Because America pushes itself in every where. There may be some undiscovered tribes in the amazon that are unaware of the goings on in the US but it is unlikely.
Besides people on the internet tend to have very close involvement with Americans and America.

The other statement about swedan... well I can only assume it was someone with the same attitude as you are displaying here. Also while it's not wise to use generalisations about people it is apparent, from having visited the states on many occasions, the most people there have no concept of anything out side their national borders, if outside their state borders.

Also while we have American news every day in Australia, it's actually considered news worthy when a major US news network mentions Australia. I'd have to visit them to be sure (I know this is the case in New Zealand) I am willing to bet good money most if not all western nations have the same situation with being bombarded by US news.

Straw man.
Way to add absolutely nothing to the thread! You sure are a bitter , aren't you? Is it because no one really cares about your country, or is it because you know nothing about the country everyone DOES seem to care about? (that would be America, it's just south of Canada)

Because America pushes itself in every where. There may be some undiscovered tribes in the amazon that are unaware of the goings on in the US but it is unlikely.
Besides people on the internet tend to have very close involvement with Americans and America.

The other statement about swedan... well I can only assume it was someone with the same attitude as you are displaying here. Also while it's not wise to use generalisations about people it is apparent, from having visited the states on many occasions, the most people there have no concept of anything out side their national borders, if outside their state borders.

Also while we have American news every day in Australia, it's actually considered news worthy when a major US news network mentions Australia. I'd have to visit them to be sure (I know this is the case in New Zealand) I am willing to bet good money most if not all western nations have the same situation with being bombarded by US news.
It's one thing to read or see news from somewhere. I could go read news from South Africa, but I wouldn't then hop on an online forum and pretend I'm an expert on it, seeing as though I've never been there.

It's one thing to read or see news from somewhere. I could go read news from South Africa, but I wouldn't then hop on an online forum and pretend I'm an expert on it, seeing as though I've never been there.

What you are referring to is punditry. It's when someone enjoys giving opinions in an authoritative manner, whether or not they are qualified to. Pundits come in all shapes and sizes.

Way to add absolutely nothing to the thread!

As if this thread contained anything from beginning apart from a skewed rant claiming things it cannot substantiate, and based on a huge straw man that Europeans would claim you cannot know anything about Europe lest you live there. All in all, very little contents from the get go to add to.

You sure are a bitter , aren't you?

Ah, there's that pot calling the kettle black ad hominem thing you so like to do. I was wondering why it took you an entire sentence to throw it in - it tends to be the first, and most often, only thing you do. Are you feeling allright? Too much turkey slowing you down?

Is it because no one really cares about your country, or is it because you know nothing about the country everyone DOES seem to care about? (that would be America, it's just south of Canada)

Heh. You assume I care what people know and don't know and want to know about little old Sweden, and your claim about me not knowing anything about the US is as baseless here as it was in that other thread, where I still notice that I was correct about most of the founding states being blue (9 out of 13), and thus about the claim that those were the oldest states, and that they seem to have all the important historical monuments. Yes, for someone not knowing anything about the US, I seem to have randomly guessed quite a few facts correctly, somehow...

EDIT: And you're being mean to Alaska.

Heh. You assume I care what people know and don't know and want to know about little old Sweden, and your claim about me not knowing anything about the US is as baseless here as it was in that other thread, where I still notice that I was correct about most of the founding states being blue (9 out of 13), and thus about the claim that those were the oldest states, and that they seem to have all the important historical monuments. Yes, for someone not knowing anything about the US, I seem to have randomly guessed quite a few facts correctly, somehow...

Two things.

1) What I was referring to in the other thread was your ignorant comment that some states can be "more American" than others, as if you know what it means to be American.

2) Holy fucking run on sentence. Ever heard of a period?

EDIT: And you're being mean to Alaska.
This will likely be the best thing to come out of this thread.

1) What I was referring to in the other thread was your ignorant comment that some states can be "more American" than others, as if you know what it means to be American.

From the framework I laid down ("original state"), and using that as my criterion for "most American," I was logical in my conclusion. Having defined the historical basis for my comment, I was correct in making it. Now, my post there had nothing whatsoever to do with your definition of "most American," or what USians feel is "most American," but with mine in the reference I gave - longevity as a state. Got it?

2) Holy fucking run on sentence. Ever heard of a period?

Ever heard of Dickens? I suffered through it, and so shall you.

From the framework I laid down ("original state"), and using that as my criterion for "most American," I was logical in my conclusion. Having defined the historical basis for my comment, I was correct in making it. Now, my post there had nothing whatsoever to do with your definition of "most American," or what USians feel is "most American," but with mine in the reference I gave - longevity as a state. Got it?

Wait wait wait...did you just us the term 'USian' and then define something as the 'most american' by being a founding state?

From the framework I laid down ("original state"), and using that as my criterion for "most American," I was logical in my conclusion. Having defined the historical basis for my comment, I was correct in making it. Now, my post there had nothing whatsoever to do with your definition of "most American," or what USians feel is "most American," but with mine in the reference I gave - longevity as a state. Got it?

So what your saying is that you really DON'T know anything about America, so your gonna try and make yourself sound really "complex" so people don't notice? Conan O'Brien was right. *shakes head*

Your really pathetic when your condescending, ya know it?

Wait wait wait...did you just us the term 'USian' and then define something as the 'most american' by being a founding state?
Are you enjoying this as much as me? :D

Wait wait wait...did you just us the term 'USian' and then define something as the 'most american' by being a founding state?

Didn't notice the quotation marks, did you?

Are you enjoying this as much as me? :D

I can't speak for CToaN, but personally I'm not enjoying you at all.

So what your saying is that you really DON'T know anything about America, so your gonna try and make yourself sound really "complex" so people don't notice? Conan O'Brien was right. *shakes head*

Wow, I guess with that reading comprehension Dickens is out the window?

Your really pathetic when your condescending, ya know it?

I seem to have to be since you never seem to read what people write, and you have this need to invent straw men that have nothing to do with what they wrote.

I can't speak for CToaN, but personally I'm not enjoying you at all.
Well it's a good thing I didn't ask you then, isn't it? Get off my nuts.

Get off my nuts.

Oh crap! Sorry man, I didn't realize those were your . . .

(and I'm in bare feet, too. Yech)

Hit, hit, passsss...

Are you enjoying this as much as me? :D
No no, don't get me wrong. This is an asinine thread. I have a knack for agreeing with Fass and yet still arguing with him. But this is still an unfounded ridiculous thread that deserves what Fass is going to do with it.

That just stood out to me, quotation marks or no. And no, I'm not getting into it this time.

Wow, I guess with that reading comprehension Dickens is out the window?
Yet another thing you know nothing about. I'd be willing to bet I've read more novels, from a much wider range than you have ever heard of.



I seem to have to be since you never seem to read what people write, and you have this need to invent straw men that have nothing to do with what they wrote.
If you didn't have the phrases "Straw Man" and "Ad Homonym" I'll bet your post count would be cut in half. Of course, I'm sure you'd make up for it in the Mod thread. :rolleyes:

But this is still an unfounded ridiculous thread that deserves what Fass is going to do with it.

Whats that? Fill it with pointless snarky comments and witless babble?

Yet another thing you know nothing about. I'd be willing to bet I've read more novels, from a much wider range than you have ever heard of.

Aww, look. You think reading comprehension has something to do with the volume of read material (and an attempt at penile comparison of such at that!) and not with the comprehension of the contents thereof.

If you didn't have the phrases "Straw Man" and "Ad Homonym" I'll bet your post count would be cut in half. Of course, I'm sure you'd make up for it in the Mod thread. :rolleyes:

1. Hominem. Ad hominem. Wreck English grammar and orthography all you want, but leave the Latin ones alone, please. Coincidentally, this is what can be used to put the length of your literary phallus into question.

2. The ad hominem was an ad hominem - you tried to attack my person instead of what I said, and the straw man was a straw man as you were trying to attack not what I wrote, but the distorted image you yourself had created. The allusion to the Mod forum was just an ironic icing on the cake, seeing as you committed another ad hominem when trying to comment on my pointing your last one out. Too bad the unintentional manner of it leads to it probably being lost on you.

Aww, look. You think reading comprehension has something to do with the volume of read material (and an attempt at penile comparison of such at that!) and not with the comprehension of the contents thereof.



1. Hominem. Ad hominem. Wreck English grammar and orthography all you want, but leave the Latin ones alone, please. Coincidentally, this is what can be used to put the length of your literary phallus into question.

2. The ad hominem was an ad hominem - you tried to attack my person instead of what I said, and the straw man was a straw man as you were trying to attack not what I wrote, but the distorted image you yourself had created. The allusion to the Mod forum was just an ironic icing on the cake, seeing as you committed another ad hominem when trying to comment on my pointing your last one out. Too bad the unintentional manner of it leads to it probably being lost on you.

Unfair competition. The referee really should call time......:)

On a lighter note, I enjoyed Finnish/Ålandic/Swedish gröt today (porridge...I probably spelt that wrong, not being used to a language without dipthongs). With stawberries. It was incredibly good.

Anyhow, I'm American. There's probably a non-American that knows more about America than me, but I'm cool with that, I don't pretend to know much about anything I don't know. Unless my goal is to bug people.

I doubt this will be answered here, but: How often do Americans eat BBQ and fast food?

I personally have never partaken in a true BBQ. And I eat fast food possibly once a month. People over there (err...here for me) seem to think that all American's eat these dishes daily. Now, Americans, we gotta stand up to this sterotype. So, speak here, or start a thread (or I will Monday)!

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.


I have been to the USA to a total of 6 states, spread between the south, the east the west and the north. Some experiences were good, some not so good. Some people were great, some weren't. There was much beauty to behold, and much ugliness. In other words, much the same as you would probably experience if you could be bothered to put your money and passport where your mouth is.

And I think you'll find that the criticism isn't that you don't live there. It's that you don't want to visit, you don't understand what you might gain from it, you don't seem to want to understand what peoples concerns are, and you fail to recognise that as American foreign policy effectively dictates much of what goes on in the world, and as your foreign policy is a direct result of your "homeland" policy, we have every right to criticise it.

Happy?

On a lighter note, I enjoyed Finnish/Ålandic/Swedish gröt today (porridge...I probably spelt that wrong, not being used to a language without dipthongs). With stawberries. It was incredibly good.

You spelled it correctly, and, well, I'm a bit disgusted, really. I loathe gröt. Be it mannagrynsgröt, or havregrynsgröt, or risgrynsgröt - they all make me sick. *shudders*

I personally have never partaken in a true BBQ. And I eat fast food possibly once a month. People over there (err...here for me) seem to think that all American's eat these dishes daily. Now, Americans, we gotta stand up to this sterotype. So, speak here, or start a thread (or I will Monday)!
Do you live in Mariehamn or in some village nearby? We are dispatching a team of teachers right away. Seems like there is an ignorance emergency in Åland. I wonder if Sweden can assist...

Do you live in Mariehamn or in some village nearby? We are dispatching a team of teachers right away. Seems like there is an ignorance emergency in Åland. I wonder if Sweden can assist...

No, we can't. Nuhuh. When we signed over those wretched islands to you, you got full responsibility for them. :p

You spelled it correctly, and, well, I'm a bit disgusted, really. I loathe gröt. Be it mannagrynsgröt, or havregrynsgröt, or risgrynsgröt - they all make me sick. *shudders*
I hate American gröt, or oat-meal as we call it! Its nasty, to me, but for whatever reason I love the stuff they got here. But if its only cinamin and sugar they got, I pass and go for strictly fruit. I sometimes eat it with milk too, because they got lactose intolerant milk here! *cheers* You like what you like, no explanation to it.

So they make you physically sick? That sucks, but if it does, its just like me not normally drinking milk. *drinks milk, vomits all over the floor* :D

On a lighter note, I enjoyed Finnish/Ålandic/Swedish gröt today (porridge...I probably spelt that wrong, not being used to a language without dipthongs). With stawberries. It was incredibly good.

Small world! late as it might be, welcome to Åland! :eek:

was that the white gröt with cinneamon? AKA risgrynsgröt/tomtegröt?

Do you live in Mariehamn or in some village nearby? We are dispatching a team of teachers right away. Seems like there is an ignorance emergency in Åland. I wonder if Sweden can assist...
I did when I started this account! Now I live out in the boondocks.

Yeah, from what I understand, Åland has some...problems. But I must refrain from being politcal, I'm an American living abroad! *takes duct tape, and wraps it around his entire head* Muffle uffle, fru fulund, u tunk ulund frumtud ur stupud!

Nah, the gröt was with gröt and hallonsylt, I think. Thanks! *skål*

So they make you physically sick?

One of my grade school teachers found that out the hard way. I told her, but she had to try to force-feed me some. Never again! I threw up all over her. Served her right, the fascist bitch. :D

That sucks, but if it does, its just like me not normally drinking milk. *drinks milk, vomits all over the floor* :D

Your lactose intolerance considered, that's quite fortunate.

Unfair competition. The referee really should call time......:)
So because Fass likes to type like an aristocrat and use latin to make up for his lack of knowledge about the subject, and because I really don't want to be bothered to type anything but the basics, and because I frankly don't find any argument with Fass worth my time, I'm somehow losing the argument?

Well damn, don't I feel like an idiot. I should have used some fancy words and maybe thrown in some latin, and maybe I'd look as smart as Fass! Or I could not give two shits what the "Queen of the Swedes" thinks about my education or knowledge of world politics? (Oh look, more ad hominem! :eek: )

The thing is, only 10% of Americans own a passport so it is far more hypocritical when they whine about Europe and go on about how perfect the US is - not only have they not visited Europe, they haven't visited ANYWHERE.

I personally have visited the US twice. Nice place for a holiday, but wouldn't want to live there - hate the politics, ultra nationalism, and in many places in the US it's impossible to walk anywhere, since everyone is expected to drive distances more than a few yards.

The thing is, only 10% of Americans own a passport so it is far more hypocritical when they whine about Europe and go on about how perfect the US is - not only have they not visited Europe, they haven't visited ANYWHERE.

I personally have visited the US twice. Nice place for a holiday, but wouldn't want to live there - hate the politics, ultra nationalism, and in many places in the US it's impossible to walk anywhere, since everyone is expected to drive distances more than a few yards.
Are you serious? :rolleyes:

Yeah, from what I understand, Åland has some...problems.

Weeeelll aside from us being grumpy cheap-ass semi-alcoholics I'd like for once to say one thing for my dear home:

We aren't as terribly anti-Finland as the national papers make us seem, it's just 2-3 asshole politicans who get quoted too much, think of them as our Tony Halmes. Most ppl here just dismiss them as the joke they are :D .

So because Fass likes to type like an aristocrat and use latin to make up for his lack of knowledge about the subject, and because I really don't want to be bothered to type anything but the basics, and because I frankly don't find any argument with Fass worth my time, I'm somehow losing the argument?

Well damn, don't I feel like an idiot. I should have used some fancy words and maybe thrown in some latin, and maybe I'd look as smart as Fass! Or I could not give two shits what the "Queen of the Swedes" thinks about my education or knowledge of world politics? (Oh look, more ad hominem! :eek: )

No, you're losing, because you use Ad Hominems and Strawmen instead of arguing your point.

Are you serious? :rolleyes:

I suspect he is. Many of the newer small towns I visited that is exactly what it was like. However, if I could live in New York for a while, that would be just dandy!

No, you're losing, because you use Ad Hominems and Strawmen instead of arguing your point.
You really need to get a fucking thesaurus (http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=ad%20hominem). There's your strawman. :rolleyes:
Like I said, I really don't care to argue with Fass, because no matter what I say, he'll do one of two things. Make snarky comments and twist peoples words to make himself seem right, or just quit posting, like he seems to do when he knows he's wrong. So what's the point? And besides, if I want a debate coach, I will certainly look for someone who's better at it then you. ;)

However, if I could live in New York for a while, that would be just dandy!
And then you keep hearing things about how New Yorkers are all liberal pansies and not "real Americans" (or at least on these forums...).

If I did have to live in the US though, and I wouldn't live in one of the Campus Towns of Chicago, MIT or Harvard, I'd choose NYC. Seems to be the nicest place, and I do enjoy a big city...

Oh, goody. Another pointless thread from a loud American with a complex.What a great first post: a generalization about Europeans complaining about how Europeans generalize about Americans, and in the same post an implied generalization that all Americans need guns to protect themselves!

I lived in the US before. For 12 years. I think I know a little bit about it. I at least know enough to appreciate the difference between it and "European" (in my case Swedish) culture. Needless to say, I am not going back to the US any time in the near future unless I have to.

Many Europeans have more knowledge about America than you might think; several have more than the average American. Fass, for example, has in the past displayed a variety of knowledge about American politics, law, constitution, etc.

And, might I note a little off-topic, during my entire life there, I never even saw a gun, other than those carried by police officers and such.

Weeeelll aside from us being grumpy cheap-ass semi-alcoholics I'd like for once to say one thing for my dear home:

We aren't as terribly anti-Finland as the national papers make us seem, it's just 2-3 asshole politicans who get quoted too much, think of them as our Tony Halmes. Most ppl here just dismiss them as the joke they are :D .
That's true. *prods you with the "post more" stick, we need more Ålanders here* I would estimate that about 1/3 of Ålanders like Finland, very much. About 1/4 like Sweden more, but don't mind being in Finland. Some very small percentage want to join Sweden, but as Fass (and many Finns actually have pointed out): Sweden doesn't want the Åland Islands. And if I recall correctly from a history presentation, Finns (or, people from what we now call Finland) inhabited the islands first, thus giving them the claim, even though the islands now are Swedishy.

My American opinion. Take it for what its worth, tee-hee.

*sorry about the hijack*

*hates big cities*

Are you serious? :rolleyes:

Yup. In fact, my dad was stopped by a rent-a-cop simply for walking along a road to a store at night - they thought he was acting suspiciously.

That and on both occasions we experienced problems for being British. On the visit to California, a man verbally abused my father at a waterpark because me and my brother didn't know you had to pay to rent one of those rubber ring thingies, and used ones which had being discarded by someone else. He noticed and started a massive rant about how apparently "Damn unamericans don't teach their kids not to steal" or something, even after my dad explained patiently and rationally the situation.

Then on my visit to New England, we were sitting in a diner and two guys near us noticed we were speaking with dreaded unamerican accents, and immediately began loudly talking to each other about how much superiour America was to anywhere else.

These were exceptions to the rule - most were friendly, but there's just that element of ultra nationalism which would make it uncomfortable for me to live there as a foreigner.

Oh, goody. Another pointless thread from a loud American with a complex..
Oh goody. Another "Swede" who thinks their shit doesn't stink. :rolleyes:

Oh goody. Another "Swede" who thinks their shit doesn't stink. :rolleyes:

Amazing! A pointless insult that does nothing but weaken his case even further! Imagine!

Oh goody. Another "Swede" who thinks their shit doesn't stink. :rolleyes:
To be fair, he made a good comment about the thread, and at least he is probably knowledgable enough on the two countries to make an informed decision - moreso than you or me.

To be fair, he made a good comment about the thread, and at least he is probably knowledgable enough on the two countries to make an informed decision - moreso than you or me.
I would have actually appreciated his post quite a bit if he had started it any other way than "Oh, goody. Another pointless thread from a loud American with a complex" And then the subtle generalization that the "average American" doesn't seem to know too much about America. I'll admit there are dumb people here, just like there are dumb people everywhere.

It's like walking up to someone, slapping them in the face, and then offering them your opinion and getting mad when they don't want to listen to it.

He could have made himself of to be a knowledgable person, but his need toinsult ruined that, and made him look like a snooty prick with a need for a good slap in the mouth.

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?
Why is it that Americans who have never been to Europe can tell me what Europeans thing...etc, etc. You get the point.

Amazing! A pointless insult that does nothing but weaken his case even further! Imagine!
I could care less what a snooty dick like you thinks of how well I'm "making my case" And apparently you missed the part where I said I wasn't trying to make my case in the first place. I pretty much gave up on civility when Queen Fass entered the thread.

Why is it that Americans who have never been to Europe can tell me what Europeans thing...etc, etc. You get the point.
Because some Europeans just love to post on here how America is fucking up, and how bad our laws are, and how horrible it is to own a gun, and most of them have never been here, and if they have, it was vacation with mommy and daddy at the Hilton.

Oh goody. Another "Swede" who thinks their shit doesn't stink. :rolleyes:

*thinking: shit*
*thinking: stink*

...Nah, too obvious.

My fellow humanity throughout the world, don't pay attention to this gasbag. Most... Well, a lot of Americans aren't like him. Really. Honestly! A lot of us know and care about the rest of the world as something other than America's playground! And we don't all have victim complexes and anti-intellectual biases like this twit.

Something that strikes me about these, "why does everyone hate America?" threads is that the evil Europeans mentioned in them don't exist. I haven't seen any threads attacking the US in general, let alone a majority of non-Americans. At least be so kind as to provide links and quotes, so we know what you're talking about.

Further, not everyone who uses big words in their posts are trying to make themselves looks smarter than they are. Some people just happen to have a vocabulary large enough that they can find words other than 'fuck' and 'snarky' to express themselves. Why does Fass need any words other than 'strawman' and 'ad hominem' to describe your 'arguments' when that's precisely what they are?

Provide links to posts where Europeans have exploded on you when you think you know something about their country while proclaiming that they know everything about the US, and I and others will hear you out. Continue your argumentless accusations, however, and you can't expect anyone to take you seriously.

I'm getting sick of the snooty people, I'm out of here. I have leftovers to eat, and guns to play with. :rolleyes:

Because some Europeans just love to post on here how America is fucking up, and how bad our laws are, and how horrible it is to own a gun, and most of them have never been here, and if they have, it was vacation with mommy and daddy at the Hilton.
That's a crock of shit and you know it. You're doing exactly the same thing in this thread.

Chill out FireAntz, smoke a bowl...sheez....

I and others will hear you out. Continue your argumentless accusations, however, and you can't expect anyone to take you seriously.
Yeah, and my drive in life is to get retards like you to "hear me out" and "take me seriously"

Oh, whatever will I do? The douchebag on the forum won't hear me out! :rolleyes: Your a funny little person. Run along and play, I'm outta here.

Run along and play, I'm outta here.
Well if you continue to argue like that, then you probably won't have a choice...

Seriously, "retard"? What did he do to you?

Yeah, and my drive in life is to get retards like you to "hear me out" and "take me seriously"

Oh, whatever will I do? The douchebag on the forum won't hear me out! :rolleyes: Your a funny little person. Run along and play, I'm outta here.

Oh God. I know this is a waste of time, but.....why do you bother posting at all if you don't want people to hear and understand what you are trying to say?

I would have actually appreciated his post quite a bit if he had started it any other way than "Oh, goody. Another pointless thread from a loud American with a complex" And then the subtle generalization that the "average American" doesn't seem to know too much about America. I'll admit there are dumb people here, just like there are dumb people everywhere.

It's like walking up to someone, slapping them in the face, and then offering them your opinion and getting mad when they don't want to listen to it.

He could have made himself of to be a knowledgable person, but his need toinsult ruined that, and made him look like a snooty prick with a need for a good slap in the mouth.

Hate to say it (well, not really) but you set the tone in this thread. You started off insulting and have only gotten worse as the thread progressed. You make no arguments or attempts at debate, but simply fling insults around you. You should expect nothing less in return. At least my post had substance, unlike any of yours.

Yeah, and my drive in life is to get retards like you to "hear me out" and "take me seriously"

Oh, whatever will I do? The douchebag on the forum won't hear me out! :rolleyes: Your a funny little person. Run along and play, I'm outta here.

"Retard." "Douchebag." A thinly-veiled attempt to call me childish. Odd; I thought I was finished hearing such amateurish insults when I left elementary school. If you're going to insult me, at least do it well.

I see your still online. If bowls aren't your thing, there's always whores and alchol. They're your friends when you're in need. They're calling you now, go to them! Go!

I see your still online. If bowls aren't your thing, there's always whores and alchol. They're your friends when you're in need. They're calling you now, go to them! Go!

I have a sneaking suspicion that he's a step ahead of you. Turkey isn't the only thing people have too much of on Thanksgiving.

Reading this thread has been very interesting. I haven't been around for long, but I'll take this chance to post my comment.

It seems to me like FireAntz' actual concern has been undermined by noone but himself. I mean, trying to defend that (seemingly rare) specimen of American citizen who is aware of the global political situation he is in and represents his own opinion concerning the latter - with all-out arguments...

That's kind of like proving your intellectual capabilties in a match of mud wrestling. Yeah, and I've been to the US three times, California, New York and Louisiana/Mississippi. Three very different experiences. Like, in New York a good share of people told me, that this was the "most European" city of the USA, just like this was the greatest accolade a city could earn. Regarding that, sometimes it just appeared to me that New York was an island.

Of course there's a lot of Europeans who don't know jack about America, its history or its problems, but I suppose these are not the ones who are able to communicate with Americans on a maintainable level - i.e. in forums. Quite a basic argument, I know, but I think it is worth consideration. If you are learning a foreign language you unavoidably come across foreign culture as well. And, as the USA are arguably the cultural center of the world, this is the culture everyone learns about.

So I'm really not surprised by the (I dare to call it-) fact, that Europeans who are active in international (or American) forums are frequently well-informed about the USA in most matters.

As an Usian who has travelled abroad, I've found that the usual apprehension Europeans have about Americans were (by their own admission,) in large part dispelled by meeting me in person (aside from the fact that I am indeed loud and I do have a big ego...no, no, it's true. :D)

Likewise, I found that people around the world are just that....people. Some (most) are cool if you give them a chance and being an asshole is not a monopoly held by any one country.

Everyone has unconscious biases, but those are usually destroyed by actually making an honest attempt to reach out. Common ground is everywhere.

Some pricks (who could be from anywhere,) just seem to not look for it.

As an Usian who has travelled abroad, I've found that the usual apprehension Europeans have about Americans were (by their own admission,) in large part dispelled by meeting me in person (aside from the fact that I am indeed loud and I do have a big ego...no, no, it's true. :D)

Likewise, I found that people around the world are just that....people. Some (most) are cool if you give them a chance and being an asshole is not a monopoly held by any one country.

Everyone has unconscious biases, but those are usually destroyed by actually making an honest attempt to reach out. Common ground is everywhere.

Some pricks (who could be from anywhere,) just seem to not look for it.

Nonsense . You are being far too reasonable and must, therefore, be European. A sad attempt at deception sir.:D

America is right here (http://anwb.tms.tensingsks.com/tms/scripts/tgigw.dll?APP=tms&CMD=ROUTEMAP&OUTPUT=GIF&KEY=B2F616C7DD41AC2F44&RMODE=FAST&WIDTH=400&HEIGHT=400&SELECT=ZOOM&LEVEL=8&XCENTRE=1568319&YCENTRE=1858756&ROUTEID=1569007S1857484S1567489S1859861S-1S-1S-1S0S0S0&POIMAP=1&POIMAP=2&POIMAP=3&POIMAP=5&POIMAP=6&POIMAP=7)

America is right here (http://anwb.tms.tensingsks.com/tms/scripts/tgigw.dll?APP=tms&CMD=ROUTEMAP&OUTPUT=GIF&KEY=B2F616C7DD41AC2F44&RMODE=FAST&WIDTH=400&HEIGHT=400&SELECT=ZOOM&LEVEL=8&XCENTRE=1568319&YCENTRE=1858756&ROUTEID=1569007S1857484S1567489S1859861S-1S-1S-1S0S0S0&POIMAP=1&POIMAP=2&POIMAP=3&POIMAP=5&POIMAP=6&POIMAP=7)

Poor old Eindhoven :(

Poor old Eindhoven :(
A little east of eindhoven actually

http://anwb.tms.tensingsks.com/tms/scripts/tgigw.dll?APP=tms&CMD=ROUTEMAP&OUTPUT=GIF&KEY=B2F616C7C407FED462&RMODE=FAST&WIDTH=400&HEIGHT=400&SELECT=ZOOM&LEVEL=6&XCENTRE=1569064&YCENTRE=1860876&ROUTEID=1570721S1861903S1567489S1859861S-1S-1S-1S0S0S0&POIMAP=1&POIMAP=2&POIMAP=3&POIMAP=5&POIMAP=6&POIMAP=7

It's one thing to read or see news from somewhere. I could go read news from South Africa, but I wouldn't then hop on an online forum and pretend I'm an expert on it, seeing as though I've never been there.
No but spend 20 years reading South African news and you would have valid opinions on their politics and culture, regardless of not having been there. That's the wonderful thing about the information age, you no longer have to go some where to know about it. Sure it helps, but it's not absolutely needed.

Heh, I've had this problem a lot lately. But it never goes over well..
You've hit on something that I think is key to why so many Europeans ( or others for that matter ) have trouble understanding America: just the sheer size of the place!

For example, the number of people per square mile in Germany is about 585, in the US it's only 71.

The US and China are almost identical in land area ( with only Canada and Russia being larger ), yet China has about 1,300,000,000 people, while the US has only about 240,000,000, less than a third!

To drive from New York City to Los Angeles, a distance of about 2,750 miles, at an average speed of 50 miles per hour will take you about 42 hours of continuous driving. To drive all the way across Germany ( the long distance, North to South ), a distance of about 600 miles, at 50 miles per hour will take about 12 hours.

This size and low population density, together with the fact that Americans are drawn from virtually every nation on the planet, makes for an incredible diversity of cultures. It's almost so diverse that to speak of "America" without reference to a more specific location within the Country is almost meaningless.

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.
America generally has far more of an influence on the rest of the world than the rest of the world has on America. If you don't like Europeans complaining about this, remove your government and corporate bodies' noses from everybody else's business. Alternatively, shut up whining and deal with the consequences.

You've hit on something that I think is key to why so many Europeans ( or others for that matter ) have trouble understanding America: just the sheer size of the place!

For example, the number of people per square mile in Germany is about 585, in the US it's only 71.

The US and China are almost identical in land area ( with only Canada and Russia being larger ), yet China has about 1,300,000,000 people, while the US has only about 240,000,000, less than a third!

To drive from New York City to Los Angeles, a distance of about 2,750 miles, at an average speed of 50 miles per hour will take you about 42 hours of continuous driving. To drive all the way across Germany ( the long distance, North to South ), a distance of about 600 miles, at 50 miles per hour will take about 12 hours.

This size and low population density, together with the fact that Americans are drawn from virtually every nation on the planet, makes for an incredible diversity of cultures. It's almost so diverse that to speak of "America" without reference to a more specific location within the Country is almost meaningless.
Australia is fractionally smaller then continental USA and has just over 20,000,000 people. We must be an absolute enigma. :D

Yeah, and my drive in life is to get retards like you to "hear me out" and "take me seriously"

Oh, whatever will I do? The douchebag on the forum won't hear me out! :rolleyes: Your a funny little person. Run along and play, I'm outta here.

Ladies and gentlemen, I hearby present to you, by self admittance due to actions, a grade A troll. Note how he subtly begins with a inflammatory post, followed by personal attacks on dissenting opinions. See how quick he is to run when public opinion turns against him when he takes no definitive action to defend his viewpoints.

Move along people. And remember. Don't feed the troll.

Australia is fractionally smaller then continental USA and has just over 20,000,000 people. We must be an absolute enigma. :D
Yes, but not because of the size or population. ;)

Acutally, Australia is relatively homogenous, with the great majority of the population coming from Great Britian, yes? :)

Australia is fractionally smaller then continental USA and has just over 20,000,000 people. We must be an absolute enigma. :D
It's certainly a mystery why you drink such terrible beer. What is that Castlemaine stuff? Do any Australians actually drink that swill or do you just export it for a laugh?

America generally has far more of an influence on the rest of the world than the rest of the world has on America.
Um ... but Americans came from "the rest of the world." Doesn't that mean that the "rest of the world's" influence on America is almost total? :confused:

Um ... but Americans came from "the rest of the world." Doesn't that mean that the "rest of the world's" influence on America is almost total? :confused:

The interesting thing here is that America seems to change people. Thouroughly.

Italians living in America are very different from Italians living in Italy. So are Irish living in America. And Germans. And everybody else, really. They don't give up their culture, don't get me wrong. They just alter it enough to adapt to the majority.

The interesting thing here is that America seems to change people. Thouroughly.

Italians living in America are very different from Italians living in Italy. So are Irish living in America. And Germans. And everybody else, really. They don't give up their culture, don't get me wrong. They just alter it enough to adapt to the majority.
So how do they change? How do they become different, in what way?

Um ... but Americans came from "the rest of the world." Doesn't that mean that the "rest of the world's" influence on America is almost total? :confused:
Not really, no. Cabra has just pointed that out.

It's certainly a mystery why you drink such terrible beer. What is that Castlemaine stuff? Do any Australians actually drink that swill or do you just export it for a laugh?
Never had it, I do know the beers we export are not the beers we drink. I also know that Australian beers have been winning awards at international beer competitions.
I drink Boags Premium myself. The Australians drink the best beer in the world, I know all the US and European beers I've tasted are mostly too weak. But I'm not a fan of the dark ales either.
Truth be told I prefer scotch anyway.

...
This size and low population density, together with the fact that Americans are drawn from virtually every nation on the planet, makes for an incredible diversity of cultures. It's almost so diverse that to speak of "America" without reference to a more specific location within the Country is almost meaningless.

You make a valid point. However, there are some issues that apply to all of the US. You have one national government and many national laws, and you share the same media (network broadcasting and such), national holidays, restaurant and retail store chains, etc. The US as a people are indeed culturally diverse, but it is still one nation. The issues that are debated on this forum are more often of the national sort (politics and such). Saying that "all Americans are such and such" is just stupid.

That and on both occasions we experienced problems for being British. On the visit to California, a man verbally abused my father at a waterpark because me and my brother didn't know you had to pay to rent one of those rubber ring thingies, and used ones which had being discarded by someone else. He noticed and started a massive rant about how apparently "Damn unamericans don't teach their kids not to steal" or something, even after my dad explained patiently and rationally the situation.Reminds me of the experience of a friend's father - my friend lives in California now and has married an American woman, and his parents were over visiting them. Now, to clarify for an Americans who are not aware of it, we simply don't tip like you do. In restaurants, taxis and hairdressers, for example, we may give them a quid or so in loose change, but there's none of this 15 - 20% carry on. On many occasions, we just don't bother, and nobody cares.

Anyway, this bloke left a few coins or something and left the restaurant - only for the owner to come after him yelling insults, ranting about non-American lack of gratitude, and throwing the money at him! Not an example of most Americans, I am well aware, but I can see why the guy got a bit miffed at that aspect of US culture nonetheless.

In relation to the original point, I've been to California, Wisconsin, Nevada, New York State, Illinois and Arizona at different times in my life. As with Laenis, some experiences have been positive, others negative. I still have close family in the States, so am able to keep abrest of the current affairs there from an insider-style view.

However, I think the problem is not that people think they know infinite amounts about the USA domestically; I think the problem for most people in Europe is American foreign policy, which we will always be told about. It affects us almost regardless you do, so it's in our best interests to be informed about it (remember that old saying? "When America sneezes, Europe catches a cold." Still an element of truth there today, you know). Since the USA is the self-styled 'Land of the Free', you won't mind us exercising our right to freedom of speech and expression when we don't like something in your government's foreign policy that will directly or indirectly affect us, will you?

Never had it, I do know the beers we export are not the beers we drink. I also know that Australian beers have been winning awards at international beer competitions.
I drink Boags Premium myself. The Australians drink the best beer in the world, I know all the US and European beers I've tasted are mostly too weak. But I'm not a fan of the dark ales either.
Truth be told I prefer scotch anyway.
It is some sort of elaborate and bizarre hoax, then!

Yes, but not because of the size or population. ;)

Acutally, Australia is relatively homogenous, with the great majority of the population coming from Great Britian, yes? :)
No actually we have very large populations from most countries. Melbourne (or is it sydney?) has the largest greek community out side of Greese.

Neighbours and Home and Away are not very good representations of the ethnic diversity of Australians.

So how do they change? How do they become different, in what way?

Because there is something in the water over there that amkes you go mad.
yes it is a random theory but it seems to fit most of the shows we get from the USA and judging by British media the same thing is creeping into london's water supply...

It is some sort of elaborate and bizarre hoax, then!
Apparently, although it would be hard for a brewer to make enough bear for local consuption and have enough left over to export any... makes sense that they'd have to choose one or the other. Oh also cascade premium is a damn good drop.

Export Bad Beer Link:
Aussie comments on US beer vs Aussie Beer (http://blogs.msdn.com/jobsblog/archive/2004/03/16/90534.aspx)
Beer:
Apologies for this being the number two choice but what can I say...I am Australian and we are world renound for this very fact so why try and change global perceptions on a blog. This one is very simple. Most Australians don't drink Fosters and I can't comment any further without fear of a lawsuit from the brewery. Australians think America beer is like 'making love in a canoe' (you might have to think about this one a bit)...so I will have to chalk up to Australia wins on this one.

Because there is something in the water over there that amkes you go mad.
yes it is a random theory but it seems to fit most of the shows we get from the USA and judging by British media the same thing is creeping into london's water supply...

Sad but true. Daily Mail x Lahndan Evening Stanert = Texas.

So how do they change? How do they become different, in what way?

It's difficult to be general here, as we are talking individuals, not whole societies, and I genreally hate it to generalise.

But I'll try anyway: You have a person leaving his own culture to live in a new one. One dominated (still) by protestant, white, English majority, albeit with large minority groups. He faces different values, a different way of life, a different social and political system. He finds that the information available is different, that people expect him to behave differently, his new friends show different (if only slightly) interests, food is different (drastically so, even the ingridients he's used to can be hard to come by), it's a million small things that are different. And that's just if the person is European, I couldn't begin to describe what it must be like for an Asian or an African.

If the person wanted to absolutely keep up his or her old lifestyle, the only way to really do this would be to isolate himself against the larger part of society and only have contact with people from his own home country, a behaviour which quickly results in the formation of ghettos. If this person allows himself or even seeks contact with people outside his own cultural background, this contact will very soon change him. That's the thing about culture, it is inherently dynamic and will adapt instantly.
I'm not saying that the person will change drastically, only enough to accomdate the change of settings and society. But that is in most cases enough to turn him into an "American".

I've seen this happening a number of times, as I am myself from Germany. There's a rather large US Army base in my home town, and as a result it is not uncommon for girls to marry Americans, and to go back to the US with them. It normally takes little more than a year or so before their families back home start realising how much they change, for misunderstandings to come up. Especially the parents normally have a hard time accepting those changes, it often leads to some serious conflicts.

Yes, Amerian culture was influenced by most other cultures on earth. But it is not all the world's cultures in one, it is something different, a culture of its own.

Saying that "all Americans are such and such" is just stupid.
:D

No actually we have very large populations from most countries. Melbourne (or is it sydney?) has the largest greek community out side of Greese.

Neighbours and Home and Away are not very good representations of the ethnic diversity of Australians.
Never having seen either of those ( TV programs?? ), I wouldn't know. :p

How many immigrants do you have from African and Asian countries?

Acutally, Australia is relatively homogenous, with the great majority of the population coming from Great Britian, yes? :)

Um, no... not at all.

Australia has a very wide diversity of peoples living in it. As an example, if you list the cities with the largest population of Greeks in the world you get Athens at #1 and Melbourne, Australia as #2. We also have large communities of Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Yugoslavians, Germans and a surprisingly large number from the Netherlands. That's not to mention the Lebanese, Maltese, Polish, Indian, Sri Lankan, Indonesian, Malaysian, Phillippino, Turkish...

Because there is something in the water over there that amkes you go mad.
yes it is a random theory but it seems to fit most of the shows we get from the USA and judging by British media the same thing is creeping into london's water supply...
LOL! You do greatly err, thinking that ANYthing on television truly presents the truth about anything, much less about America. :D

Um, no... not at all.

Australia has a very wide diversity of peoples living in it. As an example, if you list the cities with the largest population of Greeks in the world you get Athens at #1 and Melbourne, Australia as #2. We also have large communities of Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Yugoslavians, Germans and a surprisingly large number from the Netherlands. That's not to mention the Lebanese, Maltese, Polish, Indian, Sri Lankan, Indonesian, Malaysian, Phillippino, Turkish...

Yeah, but something strange happens to them as soon as they reach Australia :p

Um, no... not at all.

Australia has a very wide diversity of peoples living in it. As an example, if you list the cities with the largest population of Greeks in the world you get Athens at #1 and Melbourne, Australia as #2. We also have large communities of Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Yugoslavians, Germans and a surprisingly large number from the Netherlands. That's not to mention the Lebanese, Maltese, Polish, Indian, Sri Lankan, Indonesian, Malaysian, Phillippino, Turkish...
Percentages?

Never having seen either of those ( TV programs?? ), I wouldn't know. :p

How many immigrants do you have from African and Asian countries?


neighbours is not just a bog standard teevee programme, it is *the* teevee programme. all else is insignificant.

www.neighbours.com

Yeah, but something strange happens to them as soon as they reach Australia :p

They change thier name to bruce?

LOL! You do greatly err, thinking that ANYthing on television truly presents the truth about anything, much less about America. :D

You mean all americans aren't like Sherrif Paul Bunnel? (presenter from World's Wildest police chases which is all about drunken people in pickups wrecking thigns compared to british police fly on the wall documentaries which contain the odd chase of a ford escort round the local council estate that ends in a slight dent in a alamp post).

Or the guys from "The real CSI" (where... we... all... talk... very.... very..... slowley....)

neighbours is not just a bog standard teevee programme, it is *the* teevee programme. all else is insignificant.

www.neighbours.com

All Hail the almight Neighbours, devine oracle and source of the Hannah Martin Effect...

Just thought I'd put my 2-cents in (or is it 2-pence? I just don't know any more! :) )
I have the (dubious) honour, of being an American-British dual-national. Life in a nutshell: Born in the US, lived there 12 years, Parents British lived in the UK for 10 years now. Now you know :)

First of all to reiterate NonAligned States: Don't feed the troll.

However since this thread seems to have become more reasonable since he left I'll add a few points of my own.

It has also been pointed out that the US is BIG. Most Americans do not have passports because there is no need to travel out side of the US. Why? Because if you want mountains and skiing, you go to Colorado, if you want deserts you go to Arazona, if you want surfing, you go to California, if you want history and culture (yes it does exist in the US :p ) I suggest New England particularly New York and Washington DC.

But what about other cultures and languages, I here you cry? Well apart from the fact that Mexico and Canada are on thier door step, I wouldn't say that your average tourist is necessarily looking for a place where thay can't understand a word the locals say. (I should note I really like to visit France and Germany, but then, I speak enough French and German to get by without resorting to shouting and large hand jestures;)

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but lets face it, the main reason there was a British Empire was because people just wanted to get off this island! (Have you noticed how most of the places conquered were particularly warm? OK, Canada's an exception, but even they get decent summers, on the whole.)

What I mean is, it's what you wish you could get at home that makes people travel. If you could get it at home, you wouldn't leave. For example:
One of most popular tourist destinations for people from the UK is the north of Spain. Does this make British people well travelled and particularly knowledgeble about Spain and Spanish culture? Um... no, because as anyone who has been to a resort in the north of Spain will tell you, the bars, clubs, etc. are almost all owned and run by British people. See- the British like familiarity too! If we could just do something about the weather here, and maybe improve the beaches...


Before people ignore this as "well you're American you would say that." I also agree that the general lack of knowledge about the rest of the world is a bad thing and only leads to problems. I am just giving a reason why it exists.

I would like to point out that I have been asked by people in the US, on numerous occasions, if I know the Queen! Actually, there is a better chance of the average British person knowing the Queen, then the average American knowing the President, but still! However, I will say her husband is very nice, and not nearly as bigotted as people seem to make out.:rolleyes:

As an aside, Kosmonautik Tijuana- I am willing to believe NY has the highest European population in the US, but if you want a 'European City', i.e. in look and feel, I suggest Boston, Massachusetts. I mean, how many European cities have streets in blocks like NY? Not a lot. :D

And... I'm spent! Apologies for the length (never thought I'd ever say that!;) ) But these things I get a bit passionate about! *sits and waits for the flames* :p

Percentages?

The most recent (free) data I could find is based on the 1991 census. If you look at the trends from 1971 through to 1986 and 1991 I think you can safely presume that the trend will continue. Certainly my personal empirical evidence (from living in Melbourne from the age of 18 to 36 (2003)) is that there are large numbers of people from non-European backgrounds living in Australian cities.

But enough rambling from me. Here is the 1991 Australian Bureau of Statistics data for you to look at:

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/49F609C83CF34D69CA2569DE0025C182

They change thier name to bruce?

Stewth. That's the fella.

He could have made himself of to be a knowledgable person, but his need to insult ruined that, and made him look like a snooty prick with a need for a good slap in the mouth.
This is a good summation of your approach to this entire thread. Thank you!

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

As long as you are educated about the subject you are perfectly able to give opinions on the policies of another nation. America is such a force on the world that it is impossible to not form opinions on what happens here.

And Bush has just done SO well in world opinion so that hardly helps. :rolleyes:

America is one of the Mexican league football teams. Their usual home is the Azteca stadium in Mexico City, and their most hated rivals are the Chivas in Guadalajara.

They're owned by TV group Televisa and have managed to win the tournament a few times, although not in some years, I think.

That's what I know about America. Do you want to know about Cruz Azul and Atlas too?

Like, in New York a good share of people told me, that this was the "most European" city of the USA, just like this was the greatest accolade a city could earn. Regarding that, sometimes it just appeared to me that New York was an island.
HA! New York wishes. New York and LA tie for being the most "American" of cities (well, northeast liberal elite cities atleast...lol) Boston is by far the most European city, with the North End being the most European neighborhood (its being filled by yuppies, but right now is still very heavily Italian immigrants.

As for the point Eut was stating earlier, our makeup means that the world heavily influences us, but in a very different way that we influence the world.
America influences on a very direct level, asserting our ideals politically, economically, or militarily. Other nations effect us on a more subtle level. Their nationals move here, and some of their traditions stick. Others fade out. Look at Christmas. Our traditions come from all over Europe, while others from those same countries have been fully ditched.

America is much too large to easily identify. Eut is from...um...North Carolina? I think. While I'm sure we have many aspects of our lives that are the same, some things we will never share (the ability to drive in snow? lol). Seriously, there are some major American cultures...Southern, Deep South, West, Midwest, Northern, and New England. I'm sure we could break this down even further, and even to state-by state...but those are the dominant cultures.
Its very similar to Europe in alot of ways. There is a "European" culture that all the countries share...but Spain is very different from Germany.

But enough rambling from me. Here is the 1991 Australian Bureau of Statistics data for you to look at:

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/49F609C83CF34D69CA2569DE0025C182
Thank ye. :)

America is one of the Mexican league football teams. Their usual home is the Azteca stadium in Mexico City, and their most hated rivals are the Chivas in Guadalajara.

They're owned by TV group Televisa and have managed to win the tournament a few times, although not in some years, I think.

That's what I know about America. Do you want to know about Cruz Azul and Atlas too?
Very funny. Ha. Ha. Ha. [/SARCASM] :p

HA! New York wishes. New York and LA tie for being the most "American" of cities (well, northeast liberal elite cities atleast...lol) Boston is by far the most European city, with the North End being the most European neighborhood (its being filled by yuppies, but right now is still very heavily Italian immigrants.

As for the point Eut was stating earlier, our makeup means that the world heavily influences us, but in a very different way that we influence the world.
America influences on a very direct level, asserting our ideals politically, economically, or militarily. Other nations effect us on a more subtle level. Their nationals move here, and some of their traditions stick. Others fade out. Look at Christmas. Our traditions come from all over Europe, while others from those same countries have been fully ditched.

America is much too large to easily identify. Eut is from...um...North Carolina? I think. While I'm sure we have many aspects of our lives that are the same, some things we will never share (the ability to drive in snow? lol). Seriously, there are some major American cultures...Southern, Deep South, West, Midwest, Northern, and New England. I'm sure we could break this down even further, and even to state-by state...but those are the dominant cultures.
Its very similar to Europe in alot of ways. There is a "European" culture that all the countries share...but Spain is very different from Germany.
Good explanation.

BTW ... I learned how to drive in snow. :p

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

Although I as a European don't claim that having a gun to protect yourself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation, I can understand why some do.

It's because we constantly get visions of America in our media in both TV dramas, films and in the news. We feel we know what America is like.

It's because we constantly get visions of America in our media in both TV dramas, films and in the news. We feel we know what America is like.
You're wrong.

You're wrong.

Wow... are you saying neither Pat Robertson nor George W. Bush exist and that hurrican Cathrina was made up by Sky News? :eek:

Wow... are you saying neither Pat Robertson nor George W. Bush exist and that hurrican Cathrina was made up by Sky News? :eek:
LOL :D:D:D

You've hit on something that I think is key to why so many Europeans ( or others for that matter ) have trouble understanding America: just the sheer size of the place!

For example, the number of people per square mile in Germany is about 585, in the US it's only 71.

The US and China are almost identical in land area ( with only Canada and Russia being larger ), yet China has about 1,300,000,000 people, while the US has only about 240,000,000, less than a third!

To drive from New York City to Los Angeles, a distance of about 2,750 miles, at an average speed of 50 miles per hour will take you about 42 hours of continuous driving. To drive all the way across Germany ( the long distance, North to South ), a distance of about 600 miles, at 50 miles per hour will take about 12 hours.

This size and low population density, together with the fact that Americans are drawn from virtually every nation on the planet, makes for an incredible diversity of cultures. It's almost so diverse that to speak of "America" without reference to a more specific location within the Country is almost meaningless.

I think you nailed it there Eut. Unless someone has traveled extensively in the US and studied the various ethnic and geographical cultures, they don't appreciate the diversity. They should spend a week on a Native American (not native USian...Native American) reservation then the next week live in Queens, the next week in San Antonio and finish up with a week in SF's China Town. Talk about culture shock!! We're accused of not being world travelers. Driving to another country here means several hours to get to Canada or Mexico or you could travel 2 or 3 states over and it would seem like another country.

Driving to another country here means several hours to get to Canada or Mexico...
Same in Europe usually...

...or you could travel 2 or 3 states over and it would seem like another country.
But would there not be many things the same? There'd still be a KFC around the corner, people would still watch Fox or CNN, people would still be rambling about Bush, people would still be Christians (not all of them, but you know what I mean).

As great as the difference between Sydney-Chinatown and Arnhemland is, I'd never for a second believe that now I won't ever have to leave Australia again, cuz I've seen it all.

And the point is also that, unless you have left the US and travelled to really different parts, you'd never even know what is "American", you'd never know how the world is really different.
I'm of the firm opinion that until you leave your home, you don't even know what it is.

Where the real differences in America pop up aren't so much the regional variations across thousands of miles (which are mainly the weather, which groups of chain stores are present, and the occasional elements of regional dialect) as much as the dramatic difference between urban, suburban, and rural cultures, which requires very little regional shift.

Then, of course, there are reservations, enclaves, etc, but they generally don't participate in the "American Life," so to speak.

It's not at all difficult to keep abreast of American events and culture abroad... but in America, it is as if the rest of the world barely exists. The news coverage alone has a huge gap; then, America is also primarily an exporter of culture through films, music, language, etc etc etc.

The claims of ignorance and expertise may not all be justified, but that is why it is reasonably easy to know stuff about America.

"What do you know about America?"



The United States of America is a large nation located between Mexico and Canada.

And it has states....

But would there not be many things the same? There'd still be a KFC around the corner, people would still watch Fox or CNN, people would still be rambling about Bush, people would still be Christians (not all of them, but you know what I mean).

As great as the difference between Sydney-Chinatown and Arnhemland is, I'd never for a second believe that now I won't ever have to leave Australia again, cuz I've seen it all.

And the point is also that, unless you have left the US and travelled to really different parts, you'd never even know what is "American", you'd never know how the world is really different.
I'm of the firm opinion that until you leave your home, you don't even know what it is.

You're missing the point. Sure we share many things, but segments of the US are like traveling to a foreign nation. I live in the Little Rock area. Within a 5 hour drive I can be on a reservation and eat fry bread with my KF chicken, or I can go the other direction and within 3 hours I'll have soul food side dishes with that leg while listening to the best blues in the world. Go north about 5 hours and I would pass up the KFC in favor of delicious Amish cooking. Keep heading north another 6 hours and what is KFC? It's Bryant's BBQ or the wonderful ethnic food offered in various parts of Kansas City where a lot of the folks speak English as a second language! 12 hours to the Tex/Mex border and the KFC menu will be in Spanish with subtitles in English. Due south of here about 8 hours and you're deep in Cajun country and the chicken is in the gumbo and they claim to be speaking English.:confused: I can sample any of a dozen different cultures in a day trip. It's like Europe only we all live under one flag and one government. Americans are aware of goings on in other countries. But, we are put off by the stereotypical label often attached to us of gun-toting, uneducated, rude, Christian fanatics riding around on horses, brawling in the streets all the while munching on McDonalds hamburgers. A majority of Americans will never leave the US, but that doesn't mean they're ignorant of other cultures. They live, work, and play among people of diverse cultures every day.

You're missing the point. Sure we share many things, but segments of the US are like traveling to a foreign nation. I live in the Little Rock area. Within a 5 hour drive I can be on a reservation and eat fry bread with my KF chicken, or I can go the other direction and within 3 hours I'll have soul food side dishes with that leg while listening to the best blues in the world. Go north about 5 hours and I would pass up the KFC in favor of delicious Amish cooking. Keep heading north another 6 hours and what is KFC? It's Bryant's BBQ or the wonderful ethnic food offered in various parts of Kansas City where a lot of the folks speak English as a second language! 12 hours to the Tex/Mex border and the KFC menu will be in Spanish with subtitles in English. Due south of here about 8 hours and you're deep in Cajun country and the chicken is in the gumbo and they claim to be speaking English.:confused: I can sample any of a dozen different cultures in a day trip. It's like Europe only we all live under one flag and one government. Americans are aware of goings on in other countries. But, we are put off by the stereotypical label often attached to us of gun-toting, uneducated, rude, Christian fanatics riding around on horses, brawling in the streets all the while munching on McDonalds hamburgers. A majority of Americans will never leave the US, but that doesn't mean they're ignorant of other cultures. They live, work, and play among people of diverse cultures every day.


Exactly, America is such a diverse country that you don't necessarily have to go to another country to expieriance differant cultures but rather just step outside your own home. Americans live with and intereact with people of all sorts of differant backrounds and traditions. Just because Americans have almost formed an "American" culture with a blend of a lot of differant ones, doesn't mean we're ignorant.

Exactly, America is such a diverse country that you don't necessarily have to go to another country to expieriance differant cultures but rather just step outside your own home. Americans live with and intereact with people of all sorts of differant backrounds and traditions. Just because Americans have almost formed an "American" culture with a blend of a lot of differant ones, doesn't mean we're ignorant.

I work in a small office (16 people) but we interreact with other agencies and organizations daily. In my office alone we have a Vietnamese, a Saudi, a German, with your usual black and white tinted American mutts. Regular visitors to our office range from Chinese to Indian (as from India) to Brazilian, to African, and several other areas of the world. We have close ties with the University of Arkansas so it's a constant parade of people of different cultures. When we go out to eat, it isn't to a fast food restaurant. It may be Italian, Chinese, Mexican, Indian (India again), South American, or maybe even one of those shuck 'em and eat 'em oyster bars. Pass the hot sauce, please.

Edit: And I need to remind you I live in Little Rock. Hardly known for a multi-cultural mix.

I work in a small office (16 people) but we interreact with other agencies and organizations daily. In my office alone we have a Vietnamese, a Saudi, a German, with your usual black and white tinted American mutts. Regular visitors to our office range from Chinese to Indian (as from India) to Brazilian, to African, and several other areas of the world. We have close ties with the University of Arkansas so it's a constant parade of people of different cultures. When we go out to eat, it isn't to a fast food restaurant. It may be Italian, Chinese, Mexican, Indian (India again), South American, or maybe even one of those shuck 'em and eat 'em oyster bars. Pass the hot sauce, please.

Edit: And I need to remind you I live in Little Rock. Hardly known for a multi-cultural mix.

I've yet to eat at an Indian restuarant. I have a few Indian friends who have varied opinions of the food. All I know is that it has a reputation of being spicy.

I've yet to eat at an Indian restuarant. I have a few Indian friends who have varied opinions of the food. All I know is that it has a reputation of being spicy.

We have an Indian Restaurant called Star of India that is awesome! All the food is halal and it is definitely spicy. YUM!!

But would there not be many things the same? There'd still be a KFC around the corner, people would still watch Fox or CNN, people would still be rambling about Bush, people would still be Christians (not all of them, but you know what I mean).

As great as the difference between Sydney-Chinatown and Arnhemland is, I'd never for a second believe that now I won't ever have to leave Australia again, cuz I've seen it all.

And the point is also that, unless you have left the US and travelled to really different parts, you'd never even know what is "American", you'd never know how the world is really different.
I'm of the firm opinion that until you leave your home, you don't even know what it is.
Well, I could go to Europe, or hell, Japan, and still find KFC and people watching CNN, possibly rambling about Bush (surprisingly, that rarely comes up in conversation) and possibly christian.
European nations are about the same size as our states, yet going from France to Germany is going abroad. Going from Pennsylvania to Ohio isn't. Americans don't tend to travel abroad as much as other countries, but we have (last I checked) the highest rate of intranational travel.
I do agree that you don't know what home is untill you've left it, and the bigger change you see, the better, but I discovered what home is in Boston, an hour and a half away, as much as I did when I was over in Europe.

I've yet to eat at an Indian restuarant. I have a few Indian friends who have varied opinions of the food. All I know is that it has a reputation of being spicy.
I LOVE indian food. While it is spicy, it isnt about just being hot...its about the aroma of the food...so its quite plesant.

North America's main porno source. :D :D :D

Addressing the comment about only 10% of Americans having passports...

Flying across and ocean is considerably more expensive than riding a train. The countries in Europe are relatively close and it is advantageous to own a passport. If a 'passport' was required between states in the US I am sure that 10% number would rise...dramatically.

Flying across and ocean is considerably more expensive than riding a train. The countries in Europe are relatively close and it is advantageous to own a passport. If a 'passport' was required between states in the US I am sure that 10% number would rise...dramatically.
The same problem of distances and expense applies to Australia, and yet over 50% of Australians hold passports.

Exactly, America is such a diverse country that you don't necessarily have to go to another country to expieriance differant cultures but rather just step outside your own home. Americans live with and intereact with people of all sorts of differant backrounds and traditions. Just because Americans have almost formed an "American" culture with a blend of a lot of differant ones, doesn't mean we're ignorant.
Minority ex-pat or immigrant culture may give you a taste, but it is not the same as experiencing a culture in its homeland. Minority communities operate within the social, working, media, governmental and physical environments of their adopted countries, so although may see some aspects of their culture, you're not in it, and that makes a big difference.

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.


Just thought I'd inform the OP that numerous American television programs (especially news programs) are broadcast internationally. Not to mention, America kind has it finger in everyone's pie, so the rest of the world's news media can't help but report on America some.

Now, knowing that, think about how much you in-depth info you really hear about European countries.

...Not to mention, America kind has it finger in everyone's pie, so the rest of the world's news media can't help but report on America some....

Always fingers in my pie...

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9619/piefinger1ok.jpg

/pointless tangent.

Minority ex-pat or immigrant culture may give you a taste, but it is not the same as experiencing a culture in its homeland. Minority communities operate within the social, working, media, governmental and physical environments of their adopted countries, so although may see some aspects of their culture, you're not in it, and that makes a big difference.

Thanks. I made that point a while back, but nobody seems to have bothered reading it.

What do you know about America?

FireAntz infers that either no one outside America has ever been there and/or that we can fit it all in this thread.
FYI, I have travelled extensively around Europe and also other countries including America.
Whilst I do not claim to know everything about America I may be able to help you out FireAntz.
What is it you are unsure of?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?


Proberbly because America as a nation has only existed for aprox 225 years and European countries have been around a great deal longer and have gone through much of what America is going through now before. Terrorism is not a new phonomina to us. Islamic fundimentalism perhaps is new but we had to deal with the IRA and November 17 in Britian, Eta in Spain etc. Also the way America responds to many political problems in the world is in a very black and white, good and evil mentality, without being more complex about it. There are some very good books I can recomend on this subject such as

"Why Europe will run the 21st Century" http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007195311/qid=1133182799/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl/026-4909287-3634816

"Superstate"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1860648436/ref=pd_sr_ec_ir_aps/026-4909287-3634816

Proberbly because America as a nation has only existed for aprox 225 years and European countries have been around a great deal longer and have gone through much of what America is going through now before. Terrorism is not a new phonomina to us. Islamic fundimentalism perhaps is new but we had to deal with the IRA and November 17 in Britian, Eta in Spain etc.Yes. I still don't quite understand why it was OK for so-called Irish Americans to fund and support the IRA, when they now claim to abhor terrorism.

NB: the above is not a dig at all Americans - I know most of you are not sympathetic to terrorism. Sadly, though, there were a few that did have sympathy for terrorism in Ireland - and probably some that still do. :(

What do you know about America?

FireAntz infers that either no one outside America has ever been there and/or that we can fit it all in this thread.
FYI, I have travelled extensively around Europe and also other countries including America.
Whilst I do not claim to know everything about America I may be able to help you out FireAntz.
What is it you are unsure of?
I "infer" that there are certain people on here who think they know everything there is to know about America based solely on what they read on websites. I'm sure there are actually some very learned people, who actually understand America, and what it's like to live here, but there are also a lot of people who are just clueless, yet still think they are pure genius in the area of American affairs.

Yes. I still don't quite understand why it was OK for so-called Irish Americans to fund and support the IRA, when they now claim to abhor terrorism.

NB: the above is not a dig at all Americans - I know most of you are not sympathetic to terrorism. Sadly, though, there were a few that did have sympathy for terrorism in Ireland - and probably some that still do. :(

Hmmm who many people who fund terrorists say they do?

I "infer" that there are certain people on here who think they know everything there is to know about America based solely on what they read on websites. I'm sure there are actually some very learned people, who actually understand America, and what it's like to live here, but there are also a lot of people who are just clueless, yet still think they are pure genius in the area of American affairs.

Don't I know it. I'm pretty clueless about my own country. I used to think I knew enough and more than most but you know what? I gradually figured out that there is a lot goes on we don't even imagine. I take your point on people becoming an 'expert' from reading stuff on the web but, is this any different from becoming an expert from reading stuff from a book?
Sometimes, the only place to get a true picture of what's happening is to speak to people from a different country as they may not have the same reporting laws. A case that springs to mind was a true book about the British secret service that you could not buy in Britain.
Also, the way people are taught in school gets things muddled up occasionally. You know, some people actually believe that Germany declared war on Britain?
Anyway, where do you put youself, do understand America or do you just think you do?
Do you know what it's like to live there or do you just think you do?

Respectfully.

Hmmm who many people who fund terrorists say they do?
One wonders. It took the twin towers getting knocked over before the American government did anything about NORAID (which, to be fair, has always been funded by private citizens rather than the government), and this year was the first saint Patrick's day Gerry Adams didn't spend at the White House since Clinton was in power. It seems nobody in the GOP was aware that Sinn Fein have any connection to the Provos until Adams offered to have those responsible for kicking some sort to death in a pub dealt with.

Anyway, where do you put youself, do understand America or do you just think you do?
Do you know what it's like to live there or do you just think you do?

Respectfully.

Ok that comment has my curiosity. What do you mean exactly?

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

There are substantial differences between US States as well. There are also radical differences (to me at least) even within fairly small states. New Jersey, for instance, is not a crime-ridden, poverty-stricken, industrial cesspool filled with garbage from end to end. I could drop most people into certain parts of New Jersey, and you would not believe that you were in New Jersey.

Very true. The Delaware water gap and the northern parts around High Point are beautiful, but the urban sprawl is mind boggling. Way too much development goiing on IMHO. The parts near New York can be cesspool though, which is why I prefer to stay on the other side of the Hudson.:)

Very true. The Delaware water gap and the northern parts around High Point are beautiful, but the urban sprawl is mind boggling. Way too much development goiing on IMHO. The parts near New York can be cesspool though, which is why I prefer to stay on the other side of the Hudson.:)

Far Rockaway is rather pleasant, as far as New York goes. So is Rye, and White Plains (if we're talking about the vicinity of NYC).

In New Jersey, Long Beach Island is quite pleasant, as is Holmdel and points south.

Ok that comment has my curiosity. What do you mean exactly?


Ok, I'll break it down a bit and ask you a similar question.
Do you know your own home town? Really? Every road and which road it connects to? Have you ever taken a good slow walk up the town centre and looked up maybe? Between the buildings? On the side walls of the buildings? Still think you know it all? List every item in the fridge then go and check it off on a list. I bet a good percentage of people don't even know what's in their pockets.

There are substantial differences between US States as well. There are also radical differences (to me at least) even within fairly small states. New Jersey, for instance, is not a crime-ridden, poverty-stricken, industrial cesspool filled with garbage from end to end. I could drop most people into certain parts of New Jersey, and you would not believe that you were in New Jersey.

New Jersey really surprised me, I have to say. Having said that, I was visiting Princeton.....:) Also Hoboken was a blast. Elizabeth on the other hand......

Well, I appreciate the fact that the posts have become a bit more polite, I must say!

I really don't know as much about America as I wish I did. And I certainly don't know as much about other countries as I wish I did. And sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but I can admit that.

And that's all I ask of others. Just that they keep an open mind when listening to someone who's lived their entire life in their country and is speaking about it.

I'll admit there are somethings that some Europeans know about American history that I don't. All I ask is that people state their views or knowledge without sounding like since they know a certain set of facts about America, they are experts on all things American.

Such as gun control. People say that we should get rid of the guns because it is so violent, yet most people never think what it would be like to be unarmed in such a violent country. I am very confident in the fact that I might have been killed in a few situations, had I not been armed and made that fact known.

People usually don't want to mess with you when they know you can mess back with firepower. Maybe if I lived somewhere that had gun control that had been in place for a long period of time (decades, at least) I wouldn't be so adamant about owning a handgun.

But people who don't live every day in a nation with over 100 millions guns don't seem to understand the importance of you being one of them.

Thats all I'm trying to say. Living somewhere gives you an outlook that no book could ever accomplish.

I think the most important thing to know about americans is that we're not all ignorant jackasses like FireAntz here. (I say we because I am technically american and canadian, even though I consider myself more canadian...)

Your a little too slow on the deleting. ;)

This whole topic is based on a rather silly question. I mean you ask what everyone knows about america, but that's really way too borad a question to get a decent answer.
I mean, I've been there, I have family there, I haven't seen too much of the country (nothing west of Cleveland or south of Medina that I remember... my parents took me to Florida and Kentucky when I was an infant) and I really don't know how to begin to answer that question.

But people who don't live every day in a nation with over 100 millions guns don't seem to understand the importance of you being one of them.

Closer to 300 million.

Closer to 300 million.
Good point. ;)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/as.html#People

Although this is not a complete cultural break down, this website has interesting facts on all nations.

Damn, why did Fass have to stop with his comments? :p I am surprised that FireAntz confused intelligent wording for pretentiousness. :rolleyes:

In any case, as many others have said, the USA does indeed play a huge part in global affairs, and thus we do have the right to criticise it. Europe, on the other hand, has been practising a policy of isolationism (of a sort) in order to restructure itself. From what I have seen, most comments made by Europeans are factually concrete, yet many assertions made by Americans regarding Europe tend to be based on prejudice and myth misconstrued as reality. As long as the USA seeks to be globally eminent, it should be aware that we will criticise affairs we do not approve of. If its homeland policy influences its Foreign Policy in a way that affects us directly, we will definitely have our say. Often, the British Empire is criticised by outsiders. This is rarely disapproved of. If America wishes to be an "open" empire (if it can even be termed as such) it should be aware that it will face critics, especially from other superpowers, such as Europe.

Definitely, many Europeans are ill-placed to make any assertions regarding the USA, and avoid doing so. I keep up to track with the Economist, and as such have an awareness of several issues arising within the USA, yet I hardly deem myself to be an expert on the issue. I am, however, informed as to what its current state of affairs is, and what major issues are affecting it. Lately I have not been keeping up with current affairs at all, yet I will make amends for this later. As a European though, I will not express opinions on issues I have little or no knowledge of. Be sure though that if a European thinks that his nation is suffering from undue intrusion resulting from American Foreign Policy, he or she will, informed or not, protest.

*snippage*

Fair enough. I think this thread pretty much got off on the wrong foot for everyone. You make a valid point in that there is a significant difference in knowing about America and knowing about living in America. Average everyday life is something more difficult to broadcast to the outside world, and that holds true for all countries.

That being said, even living in America does not mean that you know about life in the whole country. As has been pointed out, it is a widely diverse nation.

As per the gun issue, I've decided it best not to have a definitive opinion on it, at least as far as the US is concerned. Individual state rights being what they are, it is almost impossible to ban guns in one state when they are legal in the neighbouring ones. Guns have already become so widespread that banning them outright would probably be counter-productive. But I digress.

I am European, yet I think guns are necessary in some situations. Especially with regard to women, to ensure they are always able to protect themselves. Training all citizens in martial arts would be preferrable, but until such time arises, guns do nicely to fill the void.

Cromotar, an irrelevant question. I have never been to Sweden, yet I have met many scandinavian people, all of whom I am very fond of. Having seen and heard much of Sweden, it seems like a wonderful country. Is it indeed so? I would love to move to it one day, as I really like Swedish people, yet I have little knowledge of what the country is like in terms of living there.

I don't have a problem with people criticizing the US, even if they don't know what they're talking about.

It's possible to enlighten them, you know. And Europe is hardly an isolationist island. France, for instance, according to the UN, has been involved in more armed conflicts than the US over the past 40 years. Sweden and Norway send a lot of their troops on peacekeeping missions (Norway, since the inception of the UN, has sent more troops total than any nation except the US, and Sweden has been involved in more total missions since the UN's inception. Only Fiji sends more troops as a percentage of its armed forces to UN missions).

I would, on the whole, try not to make the assumption that what works in the US (by and large) will not necessarily work in a European country. And vice versa.

Europe is comparatively isolationist when next to the USA. Although some of its member countries are active on the international scene, this is hardly the general case.

Indeed, I think sometimes its better for people to make criticisms not qualified by a knowledge of the subject so as to be enlightened by people who do have such knowledge. An excellent way of learning. :)

[QUOTE=Alchamania]Because America pushes itself in every where. There may be some undiscovered tribes in the amazon that are unaware of the goings on in the US but it is unlikely.
Besides people on the internet tend to have very close involvement with Americans and America.
The other statement about swedan... well I can only assume it was someone with the same attitude as you are displaying here. Also while it's not wise to use generalisations about people it is apparent, from having visited the states on many occasions, the most people there have no concept of anything out side their national borders, if outside their state borders.

Also while we have American news every day in Australia, it's actually considered news worthy when a major US news network mentions Australia. I'd have to visit them to be sure (I know this is the case in New Zealand) I am willing to bet good money most if not all western nations have the same situation with being bombarded by US news.


Well, the U.S did kinda invent the internet.

Cromotar, an irrelevant question. I have never been to Sweden, yet I have met many scandinavian people, all of whom I am very fond of. Having seen and heard much of Sweden, it seems like a wonderful country. Is it indeed so? I would love to move to it one day, as I really like Swedish people, yet I have little knowledge of what the country is like in terms of living there.

Well I rather like it. It's clean, not too crowded (outside of the major cities) has nice climate and nature, and a profound history. The people are basically friendly (if a bit reserved) and most people have decent skills in the English language. It also has a relatively well-functioning social security and health care system. I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it "wonderful", as it has its problems like any other country (finding a steady job, for example, can be difficult for many people) but all in all I find it a very enjoyable place to live.

More on Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden).

Hmm, seems wonderful. :) Thanks for the info.

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.


I currently live and work in Canada.

I have lived and worked in the US (DC, Atlanta, Stockton), and have also travelled extensively though it.

I have lived and worked in Britain (Edinburgh, Oxford, Cambridge, London), and travelled extensively through it (France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, and Czechoslovakia while the Iron Curtain was still up).


So I get to bitch about all three!!!!

:D

Far Rockaway is rather pleasant, as far as New York goes. So is Rye, and White Plains (if we're talking about the vicinity of NYC).

In New Jersey, Long Beach Island is quite pleasant, as is Holmdel and points south.


How many people associate the area immediately around Newark Airport as being representative of NJ? I cant say I blame them, if thats where they land in our country and then continue on to other destinations via I95/NJ Turnpike.
Yeah- it looks bad.

But a short drive away and you're in my area- Brick/Point Pleasant- on a clean beach, watching dolphins in the surf. And Brick now still among the top 5 safest cities in the US for many years now.

Many people from England and Ireland spend their summers in Cape May,NJ- are any on here that do so ? Apparently, there is a large group that come over each summer on a continual basis to bar tend and wait tables as there isa fortune to be made and then return to their country on the off season for school or whatever. I'm sure they'd report how exceptionally friendly and civil people are there. I think they would agree its safe,clean,friendly-and no-If brought in blindfolded, the average person might not believe they were in NJ.

Living somewhere gives you an outlook that no book could ever accomplish.
Granted.

(I just noticed your sig. It's good to be patriotic but if you're waiting to see this European jealous you're in for a long sad life):D

My negative image of New Jersey is the huge landfill in the Meadowlands, or the scent of the Hess Refinery, or the streets of Camden.

You can go from day to night and back again in a fairly short distance in New Jersey.

I must admit, of all the places I'd like to live most in in the USA, New York and Boston are on the top of my list. Of course, they come after the scandinavian countries (mostly Sweden) and Germany :)

Granted.

(I just noticed your sig. It's good to be patriotic but if you're waiting to see this European jealous you're in for a long sad life):D
Hear Hear! :D

My negative image of New Jersey is the huge landfill in the Meadowlands, or the scent of the Hess Refinery, or the streets of Camden.

You can go from day to night and back again in a fairly short distance in New Jersey.


Drive through the Meadowlands on a warm humid August night...its really special. And then the refinery and chemical plants on either side of the Turnpike. The port is right there-I dont know if there's any way to improve it. And that damned freaking Ikea at exit 13.

Hike the Appalacian trail though NJ though. Go jetskiing on Greenwood Lake, sailboarding in the Wanaque reservoir. Fkyfish on the Deleware. Deer/bear hunting in Northern NJ-as well as ice fishinh,snowmobiling in Lake Hopatcong.

The streets of Camden have once again been named the MOST DANGEROUS in the US. My son and I spent a night there last month, but we were safe aboard the USS New Jersey. Our car parked overnight in employee parking. Uniformed US Marine Guarding the property. The only way to safely stay there.

Europe is comparatively isolationist when next to the USA. Although some of its member countries are active on the international scene, this is hardly the general case.
It depends what you mean by "active". If you mean militarily and politically, you're right, but intervening in other countries' affairs is not necessarily a good thing. Economically and culturally, Europe is a big player on the world stage, and it's not inconceivable that, in the not too distant future, the euro will rival the dollar as the World's favourite trading currency.

The ex-colonial powers retain active links with countries of their former empires, and many European countries are probably as culturally diverse as the USA, despite being a lot smaller. In Britain, you'll find substantial South Asian, East Asian, African, Caribbean and East European populations, for example, all of whom maintain links with their homelands.

Having spent time on both sides of the Atlantic, I would say that, on average, Europeans are less insular than Americans (which doesn't mean that many many Americans aren't!).

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most 1st world nations learn world history and about more than just their own country more so then the Americans do. Americans (with of course some exceptions) but mostly only know their own history, they tend not to learn a whole lot about other countries. At least not unless they wish to in post education. But the public school system in America is so bad that is just the way it is.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most 1st world nations learn world history and about more than just their own country more so then the Americans do. Americans (with of course some exceptions) but mostly only know their own history, they tend not to learn a whole lot about other countries. At least not unless they wish to in post education. But the public school system in America is so bad that is just the way it is.

Bad depends on which school district you're in. Our education is not run from the Federal Government.

America is also the name of a band, like Europe and Asia. Funnily, no band, as far as I know, has called itself Africa or Antarctica. Although Toto has a song 'Africa'.

And Asia had and album called 'America'.

I also once knew a girl named America.

There are a lot of things to know about America.

Bad depends on which school district you're in. Our education is not run from the Federal Government.

I know that. However it is funded in large part by the feds under the "no child left behind" legislation. Which means most schools in America are so busy trying to teach the test to get the funds, that the kids are being left not just behind, but way behind. All they're learning is the test to get the federal dollars. And I do accept and know that some are worse than others, same is true in Canada. Some provinces have better education systems than others. But on the whole, America is rather far down the scale of 1st world nations for public schooling. Now as said, that changes if and when kids go into post high school education, then the numbers come up drastically.

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?
As a (libertarian) American, I find it extremely funny that in one sentence you've managed to defend civil liberties by supporting gun ownership, but then trashed civil liberties by supporting the very unAmerican PATRIOT Act. :p

I know that. However it is funded in large part by the feds under the "no child left behind" legislation. Which means most schools in America are so busy trying to teach the test to get the funds, that the kids are being left not just behind, but way behind. All they're learning is the test to get the federal dollars. And I do accept and know that some are worse than others, same is true in Canada. Some provinces have better education systems than others. But on the whole, America is rather far down the scale of 1st world nations for public schooling. Now as said, that changes if and when kids go into post high school education, then the numbers come up drastically.

In the school district where my children go to school, less than 1 percent of the budget comes from Federal money - and those are for school lunches for underprivileged children. No money for books, buildings, operating expenses, teachers' salaries. In fact, less than 15 percent of our school funding comes from the State of Virginia - the lion's share comes from our county alone. And we have one of the best school systems in the country.

Straw man.
*CanuckHeaven brings matches :D

Quick! Someone fetch Fass the Troll-slayer! I had hoped that FireAntz had met the fate indicative in his handle, (Curious handle selection there; That such a 'flamable' poster would go by as honest of a handle as FIRE-Antz).

Where are you Fass?:(

Quick! Someone fetch Fass the Troll-slayer! I had hoped that FireAntz had met the fate indicative in his handle, (Curious handle selection there; That such a 'flamable' poster would go by as honest of a handle as FIRE-Antz).

Where are you Fass?:(
I find the Fass posts quite educational (apart from the sig)
Bring it on Fass.

It depends what you mean by "active". If you mean militarily and politically, you're right, but intervening in other countries' affairs is not necessarily a good thing. Economically and culturally, Europe is a big player on the world stage, and it's not inconceivable that, in the not too distant future, the euro will rival the dollar as the World's favourite trading currency.

The ex-colonial powers retain active links with countries of their former empires, and many European countries are probably as culturally diverse as the USA, despite being a lot smaller. In Britain, you'll find substantial South Asian, East Asian, African, Caribbean and East European populations, for example, all of whom maintain links with their homelands.

Having spent time on both sides of the Atlantic, I would say that, on average, Europeans are less insular than Americans (which doesn't mean that many many Americans aren't!).
Indeed, I did mean militarily and politically. The arguments you make are valid, yet whether or not Europe's influence is to reach mass so critical that it rivals the USA's, that will be seen in the future. Now, regarding cultural diversity, yes some European country's are diverse, yet the percentages of foreigners in them barely exceed 10%, and several of these foreigners are illegal immigrants, who might, in the future, be deported.

Verily, Europeans are less insular, yet this means they know more about matters surrounding them rather than Europe imposing itself on the world scene. Europe does indeed maintain arguable influence in the world, which under further unification and convergence is bound to grow. As it stands though, the USA is still the major world player in foreign affairs. One thing to remember though is many of the USA's key Foreign Policy decisions affect nations very near to Europe, and thus may be prone to criticism.

It's recently dawned on me the hypocrisy that some people show when speaking about America. Why is it that when I say something about Europe, everyone jumps on me, and says that since I don't live there, there's no way I could possibly understand anything about Europe, yet so many people living abroad seem to be such "experts" about America?

Why is it that Europeans who have never been to America can tell me that having a gun to protect myself is unnecessary, or that random bag searches aren't needed in subways, or that the Patriot act is such a horrible piece of legislation?

What exactly makes people so smart when speaking about America, when you have never experienced what it is like? What gives you the right to judge us?

And to all the people who are gonna post, saying "I AM an American, that's how I know the Patriot act is wrong", that isn't what this thread is about. Go start a patriot act thread if you want.
And what is this funny thread that I haven't noticed before?
What am I supposed to do FireAntz? List out all the things that I know about the US?

Two things.

1) What I was referring to in the other thread was your ignorant comment that some states can be "more American" than others, as if you know what it means to be American.

2) Holy fucking run on sentence. Ever heard of a period?


-hopes no one has said this yet- yes he/she/it knows what a period is....i mean damn he/she/it is on it constantly