NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd go 10,000 miles to smoke a camel (http://store.yahoo.com/neuse/smcat.html)! :D

Wow...thats racist.

Wow...thats racist.

It's not racist. It's a crosshair pointing at a camel and a Bedouin. It's a joke. Not a very good one, mind. But it's not racist.

:confused: Uhm...I don't know what to think.

It's not racist. It's a crosshair pointing at a camel and a Bedouin. It's a joke. Not a very good one, mind. But it's not racist.


Its a "camel jockey" in crosshairs.....thats kinda racist.

Whats worse...its not very funny...now if it were really funny...I wouldnt mind.

I'd go 10,000 miles to smoke a camel (http://store.yahoo.com/neuse/smcat.html)! :D

With the other stuff for sale on the side bar, not surprised at all ...

Or better still - smoke an actual camel! As in wrap said desert dwelling mammal in skins and smoke it! I wonder if it's possible to get high off camel?

Its a "camel jockey" in crosshairs.....thats kinda racist.

Whats worse...its not very funny...now if it were really funny...I wouldnt mind.

Why is it racist? Because someone wants to shoot a camel? And because Bedouin ride camels? Ok, maybe they all don't...but it's hardly wildly inaccurate. Pick your fights: this is just bad army humour, not incendiary bigotry.

Meant to be funny? :confused:

Why is it racist? Because someone wants to shoot a camel? And because Bedouin ride camels? Ok, maybe they all don't...but it's hardly wildly inaccurate. Pick your fights: this is just bad army humour, not incendiary bigotry.


Its a sterotype of a middle-eastern man riding a camel.
The same kind of vague generalization if it were a black man eating watermelon, or a Jewish man with a wad of cash.

Its no different than the depiction of an american indian with warpaint used by an american baseball team as thier mascot.

Pretty racist, really.

More offensive, is the fact that its not funny.
I love good racial humour....this isnt it.

Or better still - smoke an actual camel! As in wrap said desert dwelling mammal in skins and smoke it! I wonder if it's possible to get high off camel?
No, but I have it on good authority that smoking camel dung gives you an incredible high! :D

Its a sterotype of a middle-eastern man riding a camel.
The same kind of vague generalization if it were a black man eating watermelon, or a Jewish man with a wad of cash.

Its no different than the depiction of an american indian with warpaint used by an american baseball team as thier mascot.

Pretty racist, really.

More offensive, is the fact that its not funny.
I love good racial humour....this isnt it.
Then find another thread in which to post. ( shrug )

No, but I have it on good authority that smoking camel dung gives you an incredible high! :D


Seriously?

I want to know who the first person was who decided to stuff some camel shit into his pipe to try to get high off of it.

and then I want to discuss the benefits of marijuana.

Marijuana: better than smoking camel shit.

Its a sterotype of a middle-eastern man riding a camel.
The same kind of vague generalization if it were a black man eating watermelon, or a Jewish man with a wad of cash.

Its no different than the depiction of an american indian with warpaint used by an american baseball team as thier mascot.

Pretty racist, really.

More offensive, is the fact that its not funny.
I love good racial humour....this isnt it.

I'm sorry to break it to you. But there are black people who like a nice ripe watermelon. There are rich Jews. And, yes, there are people from the Middle East who ride camels. It is not saying "all Middle Eastern people ride camels". It is saying "here is one Middle Eastern man who rides a camel". I agree that it's just not funny. But it's not funny because it's a CRAP JOKE, not because it's racist.

Seriously?

I want to know who the first person was who decided to stuff some camel shit into his pipe to try to get high off of it.

and then I want to discuss the benefits of marijuana.

Marijuana: better than smoking camel shit.
ROFLMFAO!!!! :D

Then find another thread in which to post. ( shrug )
Remember kids: if you witness racism, then go somewhere where it isn't happening.

Wow...thats racist.
If you'd ever been around a herd of camels, you might have a different opinion. Those are the most disgusting animals ... And the pack of flies that precede them aren't any picnic, either.

Then find another thread in which to post. ( shrug )


Oh no, youre stuck with me ya big lug!

Dont get me wrong, Im not calling you a rascist, im simply saying that shirt is in poor taste.
Thats not cool.

What would be cool is to invent a new, offensive term for an ethnic group.
Thats using your mind!

Camel shit does get you high, but I wouldn't say it was that powerful. Maybe it needs to be especially fresh or something: when we tried it (cut with weed), it was good, but not great.

Remember kids: if you witness racism, then go somewhere where it isn't happening.
Remember kids: try to avoid those who find "racism" under every rock ... or pile of camel dung, as the case may be. :D

If you'd ever been around a herd of camels, you might have a different opinion. Those are the most disgusting animals ... And the pack of flies that precede them aren't any picnic, either.


Probably.

Everything I know about them says they are pretty much ill-tempered, filthy beasts.

Like Ann Coulter.

Probably.

Everything I know about them says they are pretty much ill-tempered, filthy beasts.

Like Ann Coulter.
Or Michael Moore. :D

Camel shit does get you high, but I wouldn't say it was that powerful. Maybe it needs to be especially fresh or something: when we tried it (cut with weed), it was good, but not great.


I MUST ask you.....


WHY?

Especially if you already had some weed.
Why not just smoke that, and not smoke animal feces?

Or Michael Moore. :D


agreed!

Both should shut the hell up.

I MUST ask you.....

WHY?

We were told it would be good. People have smoked much, much weirder things.

Probably.

Everything I know about them says they are pretty much ill-tempered, filthy beasts.

Like Ann Coulter.


except the camel is more likely to get humped.

*rimshot*

We were told it would be good. People have smoked much, much weirder things.


I ask you this as a person who has smoked a number of things to get high from...


What could be weirder, than smoking camel shit?

I MUST ask you.....

WHY?

Especially if you already had some weed.
Why not just smoke that, and not smoke animal feces?
ROFLMAO! Aahahahahahaha!

I'm reminded of Cheech and Chong's movies, in one of which Cheech unknowingly smokes some dog shit that Chong scooped up and rolled because the damned dog ate the last of his stash. Cheech took a few drags then said, "I ain't never smoked no shit like that before, man!" :D

ROFLMAO! Aahahahahahaha!

I'm reminded of Cheech and Chong's movies, in one of which Cheech unknowingly smokes some dog shit that Chong scooped up and rolled because the damned dog ate the last of his stash. Cheech took a few drags then said, "I ain't never smoked no shit like that before, man!" :D


Heh...

"ITS LABRADOR!"

Heh...

"ITS LABRADOR!"
Yeah! Better than Acapulco Gold, man! :D

*Wipes away tear of happiness* Aaaah NS General, one of the few places in the world where you can have a (moderately) serious discussion about the pros and cons of smoking animal exceement :D Especially while a discussion about racism is going on around it - if I hadn't already had a Mars Delight today I'd say this thread probably made my day :D


NS Generalities, don't you guys ever change, please.

Remember kids: try to avoid those who find "racism" under every rock
Under rocks?! That's such a stereotype that us troglodytes still live in caves. You're such a racist.

Meant to be funny? :confused:

I'm guessing you had to be there.

Under rocks?! That's such a stereotype that us troglodytes still live in caves. You're such a racist.


Thats silly.

A better one one would be that you are green, scaly, have a soft white underbelly, and smell faintly of cheese.

*Wipes away tear of happiness* Aaaah NS General, one of the few places in the world where you can have a (moderately) serious discussion about the pros and cons of smoking animal exceement :D Especially while a discussion about racism is going on around it - if I hadn't already had a Mars Delight today I'd say this thread probably made my day :D


NS Generalities, don't you guys ever change, please.
ROFLMAO!! Great, ain't it! :D

Under rocks?! That's such a stereotype that us troglodytes still live in caves. You're such a racist.
Hell, I live in the Southern US, I GOTTA be a racist, yes? :p

Ok, I can't actually think of anything weirder, now. You've got me. But, at the time, seemed quite normal. Bugger.

Thats silly.

A better one one would be that you are green, scaly, have a soft white underbelly, and smell faintly of cheese.
Or elderberries. :D

A better one one would be that you are green, scaly, have a soft white underbelly, and smell faintly of cheese.
Hey, are you calling me French?

I'd go 10,000 miles to smoke a camel (http://store.yahoo.com/neuse/smcat.html)! :D

I like that, but I like this one better.

I like that, but I like this one better.
Um ... [ confused look ] :confused:

I like that, but I like this one better.
Now that's funny.

Um ... [ confused look ] :confused:

OOps. Well, damn it. It is TURKEY day after all. :D

http://store.yahoo.com/neuse/prvivejoke.html

OOps. Well, damn it. It is TURKEY day after all. :D

http://store.yahoo.com/neuse/prvivejoke.html

Meh, unless there's some in-joke here that I'm missing it's not particularly funny. Not like smokng whole live camels... or even their defecation :D Now that's high class humour.

Or better still - smoke an actual camel! As in wrap said desert dwelling mammal in skins and smoke it! I wonder if it's possible to get high off camel?

Or put it in a large tin shack with some slow-burning fragrant woods until the meat is cooked and well preserved. Smoked Camel. Yummy. :)

Or put it in a large tin shack with some slow-burning fragrant woods until the meat is cooked and well preserved. Smoked Camel. Yummy. :)

Mmmmm, sounds tasty. And then you grind up the meat, skin it up and smoke it yeah?


Dammit I will smoke a damn camel if it's the last thing I do! :D

Mmmmm, sounds tasty. And then you grind up the meat, skin it up and smoke it yeah?


Dammit I will smoke a damn camel if it's the last thing I do! :D

Smoking Smoked Camel?

It's taking smoking camels to the next level. Extreme, dude [/stoner voice]

I get it bro. I'm married to a penny-pinching jewish accountant who will put waste to a watermelon and I know what gook means. I know it doesn't mean the arab people as a whole, but the sorry cretins who kill our people and innocent muslims in the name of Allah just so they can get their grins from killing. I hope we smoke all of them!

I get it bro. I'm married to a penny-pinching jewish accountant who will put waste to a watermelon and I know what gook means. I know it doesn't mean the arab people as a whole, but the sorry cretins who kill our people and innocent muslims in the name of Allah just so they can get their grins from killing. I hope we smoke all of them!


Yep, that's right - all terrorists are Muslims, and all Muslims are terrorists. Nice. :rolleyes:


Now can we please get back to the real issue here? Smoking camels!

Its a "camel jockey" in crosshairs.....thats kinda racist.

Whats worse...its not very funny...now if it were really funny...I wouldnt mind.
So racism is only funny if YOU say so? Grow up.:rolleyes:

Yep, that's right - all terrorists are Muslims, and all Muslims are terrorists. Nice. :rolleyes:


Now can we please get back to the real issue here? Smoking camels!

NO not all muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are muslim. my wife and I have close friends who just happen to be muslim and they are just plain good folks like us. Not all terrorists are muslim. In today's news you can read about nutcases of all kinds who try to inforce their will through violence and intimidation. They're all terrorists. What does it take to get you people to understand that no matter why we went into Iraq or Afghanistan we are there for the long haul until the common good folk have a say in how they live? OK no WMD was found but the abuse of humans that was found is worse. We're taking lemons and trying to make lemonaide and that is wrong? The US is slammed when innocent civilians get killed trying to turn around a country that killed maimed and raped its people based on the whims of its leader and his henchmen? Why is the humiliation of some thugs so much worse than the gassing of children and the rape and murder of innocent women and children? Why is the murder of children the fault of the soldiers who were trying too show kindness rather than the idiots who thought it was really cool to blow themselves up and take out the soldiers in spite of a few kids getting blown all to hell with them? When does the world stand up and say "enough" and put their butts on the line to protect others instead of whining and crying about how those who are willing to take on the task do it?


If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

You seem to have mistaken the thread topic with the hijack here. Start at post 1 and start from there. Whole new world bucko.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

I don't think smoking a camel would work, because I think the fat in the hump would be a problem. You'd have to lop that off before trying to roll.

NO not all muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are muslim. my wife and I have close friends who just happen to be muslim and they are just plain good folks like us. Not all terrorists are muslim. In today's news you can read about nutcases of all kinds who try to inforce their will through violence and intimidation. They're all terrorists. What does it take to get you people to understand that no matter why we went into Iraq or Afghanistan we are there for the long haul until the common good folk have a say in how they live? OK no WMD was found but the abuse of humans that was found is worse. We're taking lemons and trying to make lemonaide and that is wrong? The US is slammed when innocent civilians get killed trying to turn around a country that killed maimed and raped its people based on the whims of its leader and his henchmen? Why is the humiliation of some thugs so much worse than the gassing of children and the rape and murder of innocent women and children? Why is the murder of children the fault of the soldiers who were trying too show kindness rather than the idiots who thought it was really cool to blow themselves up and take out the soldiers in spite of a few kids getting blown all to hell with them? When does the world stand up and say "enough" and put their butts on the line to protect others instead of whining and crying about how those who are willing to take on the task do it?


If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

You seem to have mistaken the thread topic with the hijack here. Start at post 1 and start from there. Whole new world bucko.

OK, I'll start off by saying I was joking, and follow it up with an apology if it didn't come across as such - and reading my post I realise that it didn't. My apologies. It was not my intent to fault you for being a... well, any number of things. I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

However, I will take issue with a couple of things here:

"If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem." This sounds awfully like Bush's 'you're either with us or against us' speech, which, I hope you realise is absolute rubbish. It's entirely possible to sit on the fence in this issue - sure terrorism is completely and totally wrong, but then theinvasion of Iraq was hardly perfect was it? I take neither side, I oppose both (to a certain degree in each case of course).

"You seem to have mistaken the thread topic with the hijack here. Start at post 1 and start from there. Whole new world bucko." Well for one I find it highly unlikely that I would mistake the original topic for the hijack, seeing as how I was the one who started the hijack. And, I feel, with good cause - what you prefer? A borderline racist discussion just destined to cause a flame war (or at the least a flame-scuffle) or a humurous, light hearted, jokey discussion about skinning up camels?

It's a whole new topic.








Bucko.

OK, I'll start off by saying I was joking, and follow it up with an apology if it didn't come across as such - and reading my post I realise that it didn't. My apologies. It was not my intent to fault you for being a... well, any number of things. I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

However, I will take issue with a couple of things here:

"If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem." This sounds awfully like Bush's 'you're either with us or against us' speech, which, I hope you realise is absolute rubbish. It's entirely possible to sit on the fence in this issue - sure terrorism is completely and totally wrong, but then theinvasion of Iraq was hardly perfect was it? I take neither side, I oppose both (to a certain degree in each case of course).

"You seem to have mistaken the thread topic with the hijack here. Start at post 1 and start from there. Whole new world bucko." Well for one I find it highly unlikely that I would mistake the original topic for the hijack, seeing as how I was the one who started the hijack. And, I feel, with good cause - what you prefer? A borderline racist discussion just destined to cause a flame war (or at the least a flame-scuffle) or a humurous, light hearted, jokey discussion about skinning up camels?

It's a whole new topic.

Bucko.

I guess I did misunderstand the intent of your hijack. I can relate to what Forrest is trying to say because I am a vet I've listened to the anti-war rhetoric in my own time and I deal daily with returning Iraq and Afghan vets. The camel jock humor is a part of these guys way of dealing with the insanity of the enemy they have faced. It does not apply to the civilians that they have worked and lived with. Those people are like the Smiths who live up the street who are your friends and a part of your life forever. Camel jocks are the thugs who prey on "Abdul Smith" and his family and make excuses for their craven acts by claiming to do it in the name of God. The term Camel jocks is a way of putting the smallness and pettiness of those psychopaths in perspective and to diminish their psychological threat when they can take your life or the life of an Iraqi friend at any time. Not all Vietnamese are gooks, but the Congs I killed were.

Remember kids: try to avoid those who find "racism" under every rock ... or pile of camel dung, as the case may be. :D
Yeah, I mean really. How could you find offense at the idea that someone would be willing to travel 10,000 miles for the chance to shoot at arabs on camels. That's certainly not singling out a group of people based on ethnicity for violence or anything. And there is so much there to single that person out as undesiarable or deserving of violence-characatured features, riding a camel...

And shooting Arabs on camels is certainly relivant to our current war in Persia, because they're the same thing.

Ah...good to know that there will be things like this laying around for our grandchildren to be ashamed of in the years to come.

"If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem." This sounds awfully like Bush's 'you're either with us or against us' speech, which, I hope you realise is absolute rubbish. It's entirely possible to sit on the fence in this issue - sure terrorism is completely and totally wrong, but then theinvasion of Iraq was hardly perfect was it? I take neither side, I oppose both (to a certain degree in each case of course).


Maybe it is like Bush's rhetoric, but you're sadly mistaken if you think it is rubbish. Extremist Muslims declared war on us over 30 years ago. We took a PC course and tried to reason with them and once in a while swatted at them like flies. What did that get us? 9/11. Talk about hitting the mule between the eyes with a hammer. The only thing I can ask is why did it take us so long to go in there and clean house? We knew he was slaughtering his own people. We knew he plotted to kill Bush, Sr. Since when does a country not take action against someone who plots to kill their leader? I figure the years between Bush I and Bush II were a grace period for him to clean up his act. He didn't do it and now he's where he belongs. Facing his fellow Iraqis to answer for his atrocities. When anyone can claim moral superiority because they sit on a fence and let that kind of madness go on then that person needs to analyze their worth to humanity as a whole.

Yeah, I mean really. How could you find offense at the idea that someone would be willing to travel 10,000 miles for the chance to shoot at arabs on camels. That's certainly not singling out a group of people based on ethnicity for violence or anything. And there is so much there to single that person out as undesiarable or deserving of violence-characatured features, riding a camel...

And shooting Arabs on camels is certainly relivant to our current war in Persia, because they're the same thing.

Ah...good to know that there will be things like this laying around for our grandchildren to be ashamed of in the years to come.

I repeat as you didn't seem to get it the first time.

Camel jocks are the thugs who prey on "Abdul Smith" and his family and make excuses for their craven acts by claiming to do it in the name of God. The term Camel jocks is a way of putting the smallness and pettiness of those psychopaths in perspective and to diminish their psychological threat when they can take your life or the life of an Iraqi friend at any time.

I repeat as you didn't seem to get it the first time.

Camel jocks are the thugs who prey on "Abdul Smith" and his family and make excuses for their craven acts by claiming to do it in the name of God. The term Camel jocks is a way of putting the smallness and pettiness of those psychopaths in perspective and to diminish their psychological threat when they can take your life or the life of an Iraqi friend at any time.
Yes. Certainly. Giving a deragotory term to a group of people based on a seemingly common practice, creating a caracature of that and then singling out those who would do such a thing, such as ride a camel=thug who etc., no that certainly wouldn't be racist or something that will embarace generations to come. You are totally justified to reduce an entire people to a cartoon and joke about your willingness to kill them...

You al don't seem to have a grip on war. Let me give you an example from my duty in Nam. A group of us Marines were passing out snacks and clothes and toys to some local kids. Some joker grabbed a little boy about 4 or 5 years old, and stuck an armed grenade in the back of his pants then pointed him at us telling the child "GIs. Chocolate". That kid started hot footing to us as fast as he could go. He knew we wouldn't hurt him and GIs usually had treats for kids. What do we do? Let him get to us and kill and wound us and the kids around us knowing he was walking dead already? Or do we shoot a little kid for the good of others? We shot him dead. Quick, one shot one kill. About 5 guys and 15-20 kids lived but 5 GIs have lived with that ever since. Now, you tell me, who killed that kid?

Yes. Certainly. Giving a deragotory term to a group of people based on a seemingly common practice, creating a caracature of that and then singling out those who would do such a thing, such as ride a camel=thug who etc., no that certainly wouldn't be racist or something that will embarace generations to come. You are totally justified to reduce an entire people to a cartoon and joke about your willingness to kill them...

You still don't get it. Our military aren't blood thirsty killers who can take a life and not suffer for it. They're our neighbors and family. But if you put a cartoon face on the enemy it lessens the pain of doing what you have to do and helps you return to your family and neighbors something close to human.

The long and the short of it is that you can sit at your computers and judge others for the words they use or the sentiments they express but if you haven't been in their shoes, if you haven't seen what they have seen, if you haven't done what they have had to do, then you are judging 0thers out of ignorance. If you haven't had to bomb a house knowing there are kids and women in there because bombs are being made there that will be used by a suicide bomber in a crowded market place killing many more then you don't understand.

You still don't get it. Our military aren't blood thirsty killers who can take a life and not suffer for it. They're our neighbors and family. But if you put a cartoon face on the enemy it lessens the pain of doing what you have to do and helps you return to your family and neighbors something close to human.
Hmm. Yes, I guess it is very human to reduce a group of 'others' to less than human to be able to kill them.

Look man, I don't want our soldiers to be blood thirsty killers and I don't want them laughing at the notion of killing any group. I want them to be pained about it because I want them to be discriminate about who gets killed. I don't want the critirea to be "On a camel." And for the most part they are, and I think it insults their disipline and their mission to laugh at the notion that we'd be willing (by wearing or displaying that shirt) to go over there and kill indisciminatly anyone on a camel-because it's that sort of attitude that they are fighting in the first place.

The long and the short of it is that you can sit at your computers and judge others for the words they use or the sentiments they express but if you haven't been in their shoes, if you haven't seen what they have seen, if you haven't done what they have had to do, then you are judging 0thers out of ignorance. If you haven't had to bomb a house knowing there are kids and women in there because bombs are being made there that will be used by a suicide bomber in a crowded market place killing many more then you don't understand.
plea to special authority/information/emotion. doesn't fly.

Yes. Certainly. Giving a deragotory term to a group of people based on a seemingly common practice, creating a caracature of that and then singling out those who would do such a thing, such as ride a camel=thug who etc., no that certainly wouldn't be racist or something that will embarace generations to come. You are totally justified to reduce an entire people to a cartoon and joke about your willingness to kill them...

Dude, seriously, shut up! I don't agree with the Iraq war, or at least, not the way it's being done, but I'm gonna hev to take Cowboy's side here. When you've fought against people, killed them, seen your friends and comrades and bystanders killed because of them, because of you, because of the whole bloody stupidity of it all, and not try to lighten the situation, to make it all more bearable and seem les insane, then you can come and criticise the people that actually have been through it for doing so.

Until then, shut up.

plea to special authority/information/emotion. doesn't fly.

In other words what the boots on the ground over there have to tell doesn't fly because it doesn't support your moral high ground opinion? You don't need to know what war really means because your definition is so much better? Let me guess. You were one of the ones who made a big stink when US troops bombed a suspected terrorist stronghold and they claimed that it was a home and started waving around a kid's clothes. For some reason people never thought to wonder why the bombs blew up the kid but didn't even scorch the clothes, there were no kid's bodies recovered, and the house blew up like it had a few pounds of plastique in it with one bomb drop. Well, our guys wonder how far our people have their heads up their butts that they can't figure this out.

Dude, seriously, shut up! I don't agree with the Iraq war, or at least, not the way it's being done, but I'm gonna hev to take Cowboy's side here. When you've fought against people, killed them, seen your friends and comrades and bystanders killed because of them, because of you, because of the whole bloody stupidity of it all, and not try to lighten the situation, to make it all more bearable and seem les insane, then you can come and criticise the people that actually have been through it for doing so.

Until then, shut up.

Man, thanks. Nam was a fucking joke. The worst joke was that so many had to die before we snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. But trust me on this. The guys I talk to who have been in Iraq and Afghanistan have a fire in their belly. We are doing the right thing no matter how wrong our reasons for going in were.

Gotta go. My lady Mz Zooke says I better get my ass off this computer and do the family thing and you know I always do what my lady says. Eat up some turkey and happy thanksgiving.

Dude, seriously, shut up! I don't agree with the Iraq war, or at least, not the way it's being done, but I'm gonna hev to take Cowboy's side here. When you've fought against people, killed them, seen your friends and comrades and bystanders killed because of them, because of you, because of the whole bloody stupidity of it all, and not try to lighten the situation, to make it all more bearable and seem les insane, then you can come and criticise the people that actually have been through it for doing so.

Until then, shut up.
First, this t-shirt isn't being done by the soldiers fighting in Iraq.

Second, the sentiment isn't experessed for the soldiers in Iraq, it is a desire to be in Iraq, not one of having been there and 'seen your friends...etc. etc.'

So, all of this 'stuck your hand in a pile of goo that used to be...' emotion is irrelevant to the shirt, the depiction, and the discussion at hand.

I'm criticizing a t-shirt, not a soldier. Get a grip.

In other words what the boots on the ground over there have to tell doesn't fly because it doesn't support your moral high ground opinion? You don't need to know what war really means because your definition is so much better? Let me guess. You were one of the ones who made a big stink when US troops bombed a suspected terrorist stronghold and they claimed that it was a home and started waving around a kid's clothes. For some reason people never thought to wonder why the bombs blew up the kid but didn't even scorch the clothes, there were no kid's bodies recovered, and the house blew up like it had a few pounds of plastique in it with one bomb drop. Well, our guys wonder how far our people have their heads up their butts that they can't figure this out.
You don't need to quote people if your going to generate an argument and then attack it.

Man, thanks. Nam was a fucking joke. The worst joke was that so many had to die before we snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. But trust me on this. The guys I talk to who have been in Iraq and Afghanistan have a fire in their belly. We are doing the right thing no matter how wrong our reasons for going in were.


We were not defeated in Nam by the NVA or VC; the protesters at home who were glorified by the press while the military was called all kinds of evil things defeated us. We were defeated by the politicians in Washington who listened to that crap and would not let us do the job we were trained to do. No one can win a war with one hand tied behind their back. :mad:

*HILARIOUS*


...

Yeah.

Next, please.

The long and the short of it is that you can sit at your computers and judge others for the words they use or the sentiments they express but if you haven't been in their shoes, if you haven't seen what they have seen, if you haven't done what they have had to do, then you are judging 0thers out of ignorance. If you haven't had to bomb a house knowing there are kids and women in there because bombs are being made there that will be used by a suicide bomber in a crowded market place killing many more then you don't understand.
The Bible calls this "casting pearls before swine." Lost cause, IMHO. :(

SNIP...I'm criticizing a t-shirt, not a soldier. Get a grip.

I've read all the posts, and you most certainly have been criticizing the soldiers. You have no idea what they are going through, no idea what they are thinking, no idea what they are feeling, and no idea why they call some people a camel jock or a rag head. You are speaking from ignorance and making a fool of yourself.

By the way, anyone who sits on a fence for very long will eventually fall to one side or the other.

We were not defeated in Nam by the NVA or VC; the protesters at home who were glorified by the press while the military was called all kinds of evil things defeated us. We were defeated by the politicians in Washington who listened to that crap and would not let us do the job we were trained to do. No one can win a war with one hand tied behind their back. :mad:
Per-ZACTLY! Kudos!

The Bible calls this "casting pearls before swine."

Mornin Capt. Hope you had a super Thanksgiving. Mine was great and a friend of ours had a super one. She found out a couple of days ago her son is now out of Iraq and on his way home. :)

Per-ZACTLY! Kudos!

I hope this isn't going to start anything unpleasant, but you know we keep hearing how the politicians lost the Vietnam war. Politicians win or lose all wars. Ultimately, armed forces are there to do the bidding of their government, which is why in the UK at least military personnell can't vote until they are out of the forces.

It genuinely distresses me to see the number of US vets on here that take an attack on the US government as an attack on the US military. The US has many faults, and IMHO has an appalling president at the moment, but that does not mean that for one minute that an attack on the government is an attack on the US people or her military.

When the US military, like the UK military makes mistakes that cost lives and people criticise them, surely that is an expression of the freedom that you guys claim to hold so dear? I haven't been in the military, but I have cleaned up the pavement of broken bodies from car crashes, and nursed cancer patients and their families. It's never pleasant. It doesn't mean that you as soldiers have the right to lecture on what the rest of us haven't experienced.

We were not defeated in Nam by the NVA or VC; the protesters at home who were glorified by the press while the military was called all kinds of evil things defeated us. We were defeated by the politicians in Washington who listened to that crap and would not let us do the job we were trained to do. No one can win a war with one hand tied behind their back. :mad:

Now there is a good rally speech for us peace-loving sissies! In other words =keep at it! I believe I will quote you on that, thank you.

Mornin Capt. Hope you had a super Thanksgiving. Mine was great and a friend of ours had a super one. She found out a couple of days ago her son is now out of Iraq and on his way home. :)
Way KEWL! Next time you talk with her, tell her to pass on to her son my "Job well done!" :D

When the US military, like the UK military makes mistakes that cost lives and people criticise them, surely that is an expression of the freedom that you guys claim to hold so dear? It doesn't mean that you as soldiers have the right to lecture on what the rest of us haven't experienced.
So we don't have the same "expression of the freedom" that you do? Hello! WTF, over?

So we don't have the same "expression of the freedom" that you do? Hello! WTF, over?

Noone says that you don't have the same freedom of expression. What I do know, from very very dear friends in the UK military (one of whom who has recently returned from Iraq and is not a happy man), is that shaming people because of what they haven't experienced is rarely an effective way of pointing out the problem with your opponent's argument.

For what it is worth, I have a very strong admiration for anyone who decides that they wish to serve their country by joining the military. What I would like to see is some military personnel acknowledging that they do not have the divine right to dictate to those of us who decided to take another path in life what is and what is not acceptable in warfare. You are fighting on their behalf, and they have a stake in it.

I'm not a priest, but I'll damn well criticise them for behaving inappropriately. I'm not a politician, but these forums would be pretty quiet if people didn't criticise them.

Noone says that you don't have the same freedom of expression. What I do know, from very very dear friends in the UK military (one of whom who has recently returned from Iraq and is not a happy man), is that shaming people because of what they haven't experienced is rarely an effective way of pointing out the problem with your opponent's argument.

For what it is worth, I have a very strong admiration for anyone who decides that they wish to serve their country by joining the military. What I would like to see is some military personnel acknowledging that they do not have the divine right to dictate to those of us who decided to take another path in life what is and what is not acceptable in warfare. You are fighting on their behalf, and they have a stake in it.

I'm not a priest, but I'll damn well criticise them for behaving inappropriately. I'm not a politician, but these forums would be pretty quiet if people didn't criticise them.
Oh, I don't think there's any lack of those waiting to criticize the US, Americans, or the American military. Quite the contrary, it seems to be quite a thriving cottage industry in some European countries.

But did I misquote you here somehow?When the US military, like the UK military makes mistakes that cost lives and people criticise them, surely that is an expression of the freedom that you guys claim to hold so dear? It doesn't mean that you as soldiers have the right to lecture on what the rest of us haven't experienced.
Aren't you saying that soldiers don't have a right to "lecture" anyone? Is that not placing a limitation on our right to freedom of speech? What am I not understanding here??? :confused:

Oh, I don't think there's any lack of those waiting to criticize the US, Americans, or the American military. Quite the contrary, it seems to be quite a thriving cottage industry in some European countries.

Damn right I'll criticise the US, and the actions of her military if they amount to what I consider to be unacceptable behaviour. Much as a reasonably long thread on this forum has done with the British Empire just recently. Much as I am happy to do with the UK government or the behaviour of the British army when members of it attack and rape innocent people as happened not so long ago.

That most certainly does not mean that I hate the US or her military. It just means that I, like you, am exercising the very freedoms that both our countries claim to hold dear. I'm not claiming a moral high ground either. If I were in the position that soldiers, sailors and airmen find themselves in, I'm not sure I wouldn't behave in the same way. That most certainly doesn't make it right though.





But did I misquote you here somehow?
Aren't you saying that soldiers don't have a right to "lecture" anyone? Is that not placing a limitation on our right to freedom of speech? What am I not understanding here??? :confused:

OK, I see your point. Let's put it another way-my wording could have been considerably better.

If someone is defending their actions, it is not going to be a lot of use to say "but you weren't there, you don't understand how bad it was". No we don't, and can't possibly. It doesn't give the person carte blanche to behave as they choose and not to expect criticism.

Now there is a good rally speech for us peace-loving sissies! In other words =keep at it! I believe I will quote you on that, thank you.


You may do whatever makes your clock click. However, remember there are consequences to everything. In this case the consequences of your actions will be more people, on both sides will die. The terrorist, insurgents, or whatever you want to call them will be encouraged by the protests. They will be encouraged to pull the trigger one more time, they will be encouraged to plant one more road side bomb, they will be encouraged to bomb one more Mosque, and to fight "one more day."

If you truly want peace and an end to the war try to find ways to help the people of Iraq to build a political structure that will guarantee freedom and equality to all citizens. Find a way to help them rebuild their infrastructure and economy. Work to find a way to get those who are killing innocent people to lay down their arms and rebuild their country. If you can’t do any of that, protest the insurgents, tell them to lay down their arms, send them a message that you and the rest of the world want to see a stop to the killing and a free, democratic Iraq.

SNIP...What I would like to see is some military personnel acknowledging that they do not have the divine right to dictate to those of us who decided to take another path in life what is and what is not acceptable in warfare. You are fighting on their behalf, and they have a stake in it.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I am sure you have had some type of training for the career you have chosen. You may have been to school to prepare you for your work, learned your trade through an apprentice program, or perhaps you have learned your job through on-the-job training. I am reasonably sure that you know your job well and do a good job for your employer.

I also feel certain that you would very much resent someone like me telling you how to do your job. Because I do not posses the job knowledge that you posed, I'd probably muck things up if I told you what to do and you had to do it my way. Would you agree with that?

So, why should any fully trained professional military person listen to anyone who is not a professional military person, or a duly appointed civilian superior, and knows nothing about warfare? What gives you the right to decide, "What is acceptable in warfare?"

OK, I see your point. Let's put it another way-my wording could have been considerably better.

If someone is defending their actions, it is not going to be a lot of use to say "but you weren't there, you don't understand how bad it was". No we don't, and can't possibly. It doesn't give the person carte blanche to behave as they choose and not to expect criticism.

You are correct in that it doesn't give the person carte blanche to behave as they choose. However, if you were not there, if you have not been through it, if you have not walked in those shoes, you have no knowledge of any extenuating or mitigating circumstaces. You have no idea what might have been going through the minds of the soldiers. In other words, your knowledge is insufficient enough to draw any conclusions or criticize their actions.

You may do whatever makes your clock click. However, remember there are consequences to everything. In this case the consequences of your actions will be more people, on both sides will die. The terrorist, insurgents, or whatever you want to call them will be encouraged by the protests. They will be encouraged to pull the trigger one more time, they will be encouraged to plant one more road side bomb, they will be encouraged to bomb one more Mosque, and to fight "one more day."



I would much rather the US be encouraged to think more carefully before they invade another country. That is what gets people killed. If they want to play police, they should go all the way, and play by police rules, with consent of those being policed. Otherwise they game is more like GrandTheft Auto.

According to the PNAC, there will be no stopping after Iraq. They will invade another country, and another, under the sorry excuse of 'fighting terrorism', when Terrorist no. 1 is holed up in Afghanistan. Which, by the way, is still very unfinished business. Iraq should be the last.

However, it is understandable that the US wants a secure and stable Iraq. If the oil won't flow, how will they pay the war bill?;)


btw, by democratic, do you mean buyable?

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I am sure you have had some type of training for the career you have chosen. You may have been to school to prepare you for your work, learned your trade through an apprentice program, or perhaps you have learned your job through on-the-job training. I am reasonably sure that you know your job well and do a good job for your employer.

I also feel certain that you would very much resent someone like me telling you how to do your job. Because I do not posses the job knowledge that you posed, I'd probably muck things up if I told you what to do and you had to do it my way. Would you agree with that?

So, why should any fully trained professional military person listen to anyone who is not a professional military person, or a duly appointed civilian superior, and knows nothing about warfare? What gives you the right to decide, "What is acceptable in warfare?"

You would have every right to comment on what I do for a living if you believe that what I do (or rather, the way I do it) has an effect on how my country is perceived, particularly if you are acting as my countries representatives. Particularly if I am a civil servant. Which is exactly what the military is.

I work in biological research. There are many people without biological science backgrounds who express very forceful opinions about what I do. Because although they could not do what I do, what I do effects things that they hold dear.

We criticise politicians, without knowing how they do their jobs in detail. We criticise the police, hospitals, big business etc. etc.


You and I both know that there are weapons currently in use by some armies that are not in use by others. The reason? Because some countries have decided that the use of that weapon in wrong in any circumstances. Not the army. The government. In our countries, the government is the elected body representing the people. If you are acting as the defenders of my country, I don't have the right to tell you how to do your job, as you say that would be utterly facile, but I most certainly do have the right to question it.

I don't have the slightest doubt that armies could be more effective using illegal weapons, for example. But in order for the military to be part of society, society has to be able to comment on the actions of the military. Surely you would agree with that?

You are correct in that it doesn't give the person carte blanche to behave as they choose. However, if you were not there, if you have not been through it, if you have not walked in those shoes, you have no knowledge of any extenuating or mitigating circumstaces. You have no idea what might have been going through the minds of the soldiers. In other words, your knowledge is insufficient enough to draw any conclusions or criticize their actions.

No. Sorry, but that doesn't wash at all. You are effectively saying that any and every action in war is forgiveable as a crime of passion.

Its a "camel jockey" in crosshairs.....thats kinda racist.

Whats worse...its not very funny...now if it were really funny...I wouldnt mind.
You're too PC. It's no more racist than the stereotype of an American in a huge SUV. Stereotypes aren't racist. Racism means judging someone inferior by reason of his or her ethnicity. Stereotypes are just funny.

We were told it would be good. People have smoked much, much weirder things.
I seriously doubt that.

ROFLMAO! Aahahahahahaha!

I'm reminded of Cheech and Chong's movies, in one of which Cheech unknowingly smokes some dog shit that Chong scooped up and rolled because the damned dog ate the last of his stash. Cheech took a few drags then said, "I ain't never smoked no shit like that before, man!" :D
It's Labrador man.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

I don't think smoking a camel would work, because I think the fat in the hump would be a problem. You'd have to lop that off before trying to roll.

Fat burns, and, as any late fourteenth century Spanish king will tell you, smoke and fire are inseparably connected. Thus, you should be able to smoke the camel fat.

I've read all the posts, and you most certainly have been criticizing the soldiers. You have no idea what they are going through, no idea what they are thinking, no idea what they are feeling, and no idea why they call some people a camel jock or a rag head. You are speaking from ignorance and making a fool of yourself.

By the way, anyone who sits on a fence for very long will eventually fall to one side or the other.
Nope, been talkin' about a sentiment on a t-shirt. RIF.

Don't know what the fence comment has to do with anything.

I seriously doubt that.
I tend to believe him. I mean, if someone can be so demented as to lick a frog ... !!! :rolleyes: