NationStates Jolt Archive

It's nice to see that one state is putting the needs of it's low-income residents above international politics. At least, that's the way it seems to me. I'm sure there are some people out there who think that Massacheusetts is making this deal just to thumb their nose at Bush or something like that.
Officials from Venezuela and Massachusetts have signed a deal to provide cheap heating oil to low-income homes in the US state.

The fuel will be sold at about 40% below market prices to thousands of homes over the winter months.

Local congressman William Delahunt described the deal as "an expression of humanitarianism at its very best".

Read the rest of the story at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4461946.stm

Round of applause.

I hope Citgo is making a profit on it, because that might create a competitive ripple effect on the other oil companies, requiring them to lower prices or lose customers, which means everyone will benefit from this action.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they're forecasting running out of heating oil somewhere in mid-February.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they're forecasting running out of heating oil somewhere in mid-February.

Actually, supplies of heating oil are in good shape; they rose by 1.1 million barrels and are 9 million above year ago levels. If anything, this reduced cost combined with the increases in supply should make it cheaper over the next few months.

The Northeast reserve is also full.

This is a big political stunt by Chavez. But it will benefit some of the unfortunate. We will see how long he keeps it up.

This is a big political stunt by Chavez. But it will benefit some of the unfortunate. We will see how long he keeps it up.

Hey, it helps our economy at their expense, so what the hell?

Hey, it helps our economy at their expense, so what the hell?
Plus a bit of contact between the people of the two countries is always good. Walls don't exactly solve problems, whether physical or mental.

Plus a bit of contact between the people of the two countries is always good. Walls don't exactly solve problems, whether physical or mental.
It'd be nice to take some walls down for a change.

Congratulations to Massachusetts for solving their problems themselves instead of waiting for Washington to get around to it.

$5 bucks says the Bush gov't will get involved somehow and screw it up for those people in MA... Just like we the whole buying drugs from canada. THere was a big deal here in Illinois some months ago...I forget how it ended it up... But I do applaud MA for standing up for what is right and providing for their loyal citizens. Hope many more states follow suit!

Hope many more states follow suit!

Apparently New York is in negotiations as well.

I'm not positive, but if this isn't sanctioned by the Federal Government, it's illegal and can't happen. The US states themselves cannot independently engage in international politics and economics.

Really? Then why do governors make trade missions to foreign countries without federal representatives?

For example:
In a September visit to China, officials from the California Public Utilities Commission and the state Energy Commission signed a pact with Jiangsu province, a booming coastal region of 75 million people north of Shanghai, to provide expertise and training to utility companies and regulators. The state officials made informal agreements to expand those pacts to the rest of China. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/14/MNGDFFO16C1.DTL

California Brazil Trade Pacts Signed (http://www.caltradereport.com/eWebPages/front-page-1099347248.html)

Really? Then why do governors make trade missions to foreign countries without federal representatives?

For example:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/14/MNGDFFO16C1.DTL

California Brazil Trade Pacts Signed (http://www.caltradereport.com/eWebPages/front-page-1099347248.html)

Hence the:

I'm not positive, but...

I'm not positive, but if this isn't sanctioned by the Federal Government, it's illegal and can't happen. The US states themselves cannot independently engage in international politics and economics.

Thats how the civil war started
States acting above the gov't! Pff!

Apparently New York is in negotiations as well.
Fuck yeah!

Thats how the civil war started
States acting above the gov't! Pff!

I thought it was how the Articles of Confederation failed.


I think the Civil War started when the southern states were all "omfg they'z gonna destroy our wayz o' life (aka slavery business) and we'zll be poor bastages."

(Silliness afoot!)

States routinely conduct trade missions and a sort of "foreign policy light", especially big exporting states like California, or my own home state of Michigan. These trade missions usually consist of state officials and some of the larger companies in the state.

Michigan used to have trade offices overseas, but Gov. Engler shut them down. Gov. Granholm is looking to reopen some of the 12 offices we used to have worldwide. Granholm has made trips to Germany and Japan in the last year or so, and has come back with promises of investment. It should be noted that the Southern states are particularly good at this, as that's why the Japanese and European automakers have built a lot of their facilities in the South as opposed to places like Michigan.

States can conduct business negotiations with other countries, as long as the reuslts are not banned by federal law (like giving missile guidance technology or the like to the Chinese). As far as I know, they just can't do things like sign treaties or go to war with those countries.

I am a resident of Massachusetts, and while I like the idea of trying to help with the heating oil supply for the less well off, I don't like this deal with Venezuela. Chavez is a madman. I wouldn't call him all that bad a dictator, their are MANY far worse in the world. the problem with Chavez is that he is insane.

Case in point, recently he called Mexico a puppet state of the US (which they are not). Mexico demanded he appologize, or they would cut off diplomatic relations with Venezuela. Last I heard, Chavez response was to threaten to expel all Mexican nationals, or arrest them as "CIA spies." He is nuts.

Or, how about that after we refused to give him spare parts for his F-16s, he threatened to sell them to China or Cuba. Despite the fact that in the contract Venezuela signed when we sold him the fighters, we reserved the right not to give him spare parts, and they pledged that under no circumstances would they give the technology from the fighters to countries such as China and Cuba.

Chavez does not know how to keep his word. My guess is, he will probably demand that the price get raised, and when MA refuses to pay, he will accuse us of all being spies for the CIA, and that we (Massachusetts) are paying for his assasination.

I intend to write my state representatives and urge them to drop this deal.

Usually, I'm not a big fan of Chavez for a few reasons, but in this case, I say don't bite the hand that feeds you. If the weather remains this cold, the north is in for a hell of a winter. It isn't fair to choose between heat and food. I hope my homestate will do something similar, as with the rest of the northern states.

Usually, I'm not a big fan of Chavez for a few reasons, but in this case, I say don't bite the hand that feeds you. If the weather remains this cold, the north is in for a hell of a winter. It isn't fair to choose between heat and food. I hope my homestate will do something similar, as with the rest of the northern states.
I agree that something needs to be done, I just don't trust Chavez to be our ally in this. I think he will use this to screw us over in a time of need. He is a dishonest and insane man (not to be confused with the one running the United States (oops, did I just type that?)).

I look at it like this. Kids like candy. Candy costs money. If you are poor, an easy way to solve this problem would be to tell your kids it's ok to take candy from strangers.


Or if you are broke, and you can't pay your bills. Suddenly a loan shark appears and offers to give you a "loan" so that you can afford to keep your electricity on. Sounds like a good idea, right?

Beware of the stranger bearing gifts. Especially if he's a socialist who accuses your nation of atrocities and rigs elections and tampers with his nations judiciary.

I hope it all works out for the best, really, I do! I'm glad that people will get be getting the economic help they need in a state as poor as Massachusetts. :rolleyes: But if America gets stung by this, I'm in favor of cutting all federal funding to them.

I look at it like this. Kids like candy. Candy costs money. If you are poor, an easy way to solve this problem would be to tell your kids it's ok to take candy from strangers.


Or if you are broke, and you can't pay your bills. Suddenly a loan shark appears and offers to give you a "loan" so that you can afford to keep your electricity on. Sounds like a good idea, right?

Beware of the stranger bearing gifts. Especially if he's a socialist who accuses your nation of atrocities and rigs elections and tampers with his nations judiciary.

I hope it all works out for the best, really, I do! I'm glad that people will get be getting the economic help they need in a state as poor as Massachusetts. :rolleyes: But if America gets stung by this, I'm in favor of cutting all federal funding to them.
Or maybe, the US government should just realize it is this much of a fucking problem and do something about it. I think Chavez will be happy enough that he helped the Americans under Bush's nose.

Or maybe, the US government should just realize it is this much of a fucking problem and do something about it. I think Chavez will be happy enough that he helped the Americans under Bush's nose.
Or maybe people could solve their own fucking problems, and get off the governments tit?

Or maybe people could solve their own fucking problems, and get off the governments tit?
And grow their own oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#Biogenic_theory)?

And grow their own oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#Biogenic_theory)?
Thats pretty interesting. Is there ANYTHING scientists havn't thought up yet?

Or maybe people could solve their own fucking problems, and get off the governments tit?
If you have a full time job that is being taxed by the government, you should be able to stay warm, now shouldn't you?

Or maybe people could solve their own fucking problems, and get off the governments tit?
When the government creates the problem by entering a war of choice in Iraq, driving up world oil prices, then it is their repsonsibility to help those citizens in our nation who are hurt to the point that they will freeze to death.

The same goes true for natural disasters like huricanes. The government has a responsibility to help the people that will DIE if they don't get help.

Thats pretty interesting. Is there ANYTHING scientists havn't thought up yet?
If there was, we wouldn't know.

The point is that this process takes millions of years in practice - or so much energy that we'd have to burn more oil than we would gain.

The Government in Massachusetts has a choice:
a) stay cold
b) get heating oil secured by the Federal Government
c) get their own oil by trading with people who have it

The people in Massachusetts have even less of a choice:
a) buy if it is available
b) stay cold

If you decide that people should not need the Federal Government, and that States should sort out their own affairs, then there is nothing wrong with Massachusetts engaging in trade.
If you decide that Massachusetts shouldn't engage in world trade because it may undermine the interests of the larger US population, then the oil needs to come from the Federal Government.

Pick one.

If you have a full time job that is being taxed by the government, you should be able to stay warm, now shouldn't you?
I pay my bills just fine. I'd like to add that one of the ways I do that is by cuting frivolous spending, as in I don't assume I have the right to spend $60 dollars a month on a cell phone so I can look cool in front of my friends, or spending $80 on a pair of jeans for the same purpose.

If you decide that people should not need the Federal Government, and that States should sort out their own affairs, then there is nothing wrong with Massachusetts engaging in trade.
If you decide that Massachusetts shouldn't engage in world trade because it may undermine the interests of the larger US population, then the oil needs to come from the Federal Government.

Pick one.
I pick the third option. It isn't the governments responsibility to pay my fucking bills. It's mine. That's why every month, when my bills go out, it's MY name on the checks, not Uncle Sam's. People need to learn some responsibility for their lives, and work some overtime if that is what it takes! Like I said before, people need to get off of the governments tit.

I pay my bills just fine.
The idea was to have oil there in the first place - so that if you pay your bill, you will actually receive heating in return.
You can assume that had this deal not been made, people could've been as rich as they want, they still wouldn't have gotten enough heating oil.

The idea was to have oil there in the first place - so that if you pay your bill, you will actually receive heating in return.
You can assume that had this deal not been made, people could've been as rich as they want, they still wouldn't have gotten enough heating oil.
Are you seriously suggesting that there isn't any way to get heating oil in Massechusetts? Do a bit of research on the marketplace. The only reason they are dealing with Chaves is because they are getting it 40% cheaper.
Kinda like buying stolen property. Sure, it's cheaper, but it doesn't make you any less of a selfish asshole.

I pay my bills just fine. I'd like to add that one of the ways I do that is by cuting frivolous spending, as in I don't assume I have the right to spend $60 dollars a month on a cell phone so I can look cool in front of my friends, or spending $80 on a pair of jeans for the same purpose.
That's very sweet. Other people do the same thing and still have problems making ends meet. If a necessity is not affordable, the government is not doing anything about it, then the state should be applauded for doing a great service for it's citizens. If shit happens with Chavez because of it... well, the Government should have been there for us in the first place.

I agree that something needs to be done, I just don't trust Chavez to be our ally in this. I think he will use this to screw us over in a time of need. He is a dishonest and insane man (not to be confused with the one running the United States (oops, did I just type that?)).
haha...yes, you did just type that. And I agree with you. but I'm being hopeful. If he raises the price at any point to an unreasonable level, then I hope the deal allows Mass to back out. Who knows, maybe he likes Mass because Mass is notorious for being against Bush in general.

I look at it like this. Kids like candy. Candy costs money. If you are poor, an easy way to solve this problem would be to tell your kids it's ok to take candy from strangers.


Or if you are broke, and you can't pay your bills. Suddenly a loan shark appears and offers to give you a "loan" so that you can afford to keep your electricity on. Sounds like a good idea, right?

Beware of the stranger bearing gifts. Especially if he's a socialist who accuses your nation of atrocities and rigs elections and tampers with his nations judiciary.

I hope it all works out for the best, really, I do! I'm glad that people will get be getting the economic help they need in a state as poor as Massachusetts. But if America gets stung by this, I'm in favor of cutting all federal funding to them.

one problem with that first analogy. you won't die from lack of candy. Mass winters, particularly in the bay area (such as Roxbury and Southie) are very cold. Without heat, you will freeze to death.
The loan shark idea is much closer. I hope Chavez doesn't pull shit, and am being a bit optomistic and perhaps a bit naive, but I'm really just hoping for the families that need this.

And yes, Massachusettes is the 3rd richest state, behind CT and NJ, all three of which will be suffering a cold winter this year. Come to the cities of CT (particularly Hartford, New Haven, and Bridgeport), NJ (areas around Newark and Atlantic city, iirc) or the areas like Roxbury and Southie. Hell, even Brookline, one of the wealthiest towns in the world, has some of the poorest people. The fact is that even tho it is a very wealthy state, that does not mean that there are no poor people who are in dire need of help.

Oh, and your attitude towards if America gets stung, we should cut off aid to mass is a bit off. Look at the figures for ammount of money recieved in federal money per dollar paid in taxes. Mass and CT are two of the lowest recieving states, but two of the highest payers. Should we stop our support for other states because it screws us over? Hell no. We are, as our name suggests, united. Therefore, we are here to help one another, wether it helps us or not.

Additionally, it is not the poor peoples choice. It is the Mass. legislator and gov. Do not punish the poor for other peoples choices.

That's very sweet. Other people do the same thing and still have problems making ends meet. If a necessity is not affordable, the government is not doing anything about it, then the state should be applauded for doing a great service for it's citizens. If shit happens with Chavez because of it... well, the Government should have been there for us in the first place.
It isn't the governments job to "be there" for you when you need to pay your bills. It is YOUR job to pay your bills! Get a second job, quit blowing money on fast food, quit having babies you can't afford, quit buying Gap jeans, quit paying for internet connections and cable if you can't afford your fucking heating bill! This country is fucking SPOILED!

It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!

I pay my bills just fine. I'd like to add that one of the ways I do that is by cuting frivolous spending, as in I don't assume I have the right to spend $60 dollars a month on a cell phone so I can look cool in front of my friends, or spending $80 on a pair of jeans for the same purpose.
Yeah, thats all well and good, but I would seriously like you to come spend some time in Roxbury, Mass. It is within walking distance of some of the most expensive property in the world, yet is so deep into poverty (I keep mentioning it because I have taught children there). These are not people who are buying things they can't afford. Yes, some of the families are run by druggies, and for those adults, I have no sympathy (I do for the children of those people tho). However, there are plenty of adults there who are working several jobs, or are out of work for various reasons. Sometimes, cutting that extra spending isn't the problem, because they aren't doing it to begin with. When you see kids wearing hand me downs that were purchased for there 2 older siblings from salvation army, and they walk to school with shoes that have pieces of tire glued on to the bottoms for soles, then you can talk to me about these families frivolous spending

It isn't the governments job to "be there" for you when you need to pay your bills. It is YOUR job to pay your bills! Get a second job, quit blowing money on fast food, quit having babies you can't afford, quit buying Gap jeans, quit paying for internet connections and cable if you can't afford your fucking heating bill! This country is fucking SPOILED!

It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
that isn't everyone. Yes, there are many...some of them are related to me and I think they are fucking idiots. However, there ARE people out there who truly do need aid. And it IS, in fact, the governments job to "provide for the common welfare", as so well stated in the constitution (http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html)

It's nice to see that one state is putting the needs of it's low-income residents above international politics. At least, that's the way it seems to me. I'm sure there are some people out there who think that Massacheusetts is making this deal just to thumb their nose at Bush or something like that.

just out of curiosity, if it was hitler or stalin or saddam offering the fuel do you think we should have taken it?

The only reason they are dealing with Chaves is because they are getting it 40% cheaper.
Well, that's Capitalism for you.

But I still don't get your point about "personal responsibility".
It is impossible for a single person to secure a deal for heating oil from an oil-producing country - and even if it was, it would be inefficient.
Therefore the Government secures deals for oil to enter the market, such that you can pay your bills and receive heat in return.
Should the Government not look for the best possible deal, such that your bills will be as small as possible? Is that not the responsibility of the government in this case? And would you not be outraged if you heard your government was doing unprofitable affairs with US-friendly "cronies" and made you pay a higher price for oil?

It isn't the governments job to "be there" for you when you need to pay your bills. It is YOUR job to pay your bills! Get a second job, quit blowing money on fast food, quit having babies you can't afford, quit buying Gap jeans, quit paying for internet connections and cable if you can't afford your fucking heating bill! This country is fucking SPOILED!

It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
You understand nothing about poverty. And really that is besides the point. Massachusettes is solving the problem by giving it's citizens oil that can fit into a working person's budget. That's good news.

just out of curiosity, if it was hitler or stalin or saddam offering the fuel do you think we should have taken it?
Chavez, while not exactly man of the year, is nowhere NEAR the level of even whomever of these three you consider to be the best person.

It isn't the governments job to "be there" for you when you need to pay your bills. It is YOUR job to pay your bills! Get a second job, quit blowing money on fast food, quit having babies you can't afford, quit buying Gap jeans, quit paying for internet connections and cable if you can't afford your fucking heating bill! This country is fucking SPOILED!

It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
Ever heard of something called unemployment? Its pretty high right now. Or, how about people who are already working 15 hours a day, and still can't make ends meet? They can't get a second job, or work overtime, because there is only so much time in a day (and don't try to tell me that these people do not exist, my father spent the last 4 years he was working for HP/Compaq doing just this, and after his devotion, even though they would not pay him overtime, and even though he gave up vacations to keep working, they laid him off. He still has not been able to get a job in the tech market 3 years later. We are probably selling our house so that we can afford heating costs this winter.).

How about people working for companies like Wal-Mart? They keep getting paycuts and benefits at their jobs (like health insurance) reduced. One of their family members gets sick, and they cannot afford the hospital bill, let alone heating their home after this.

Or how about the 30,000 GM employees who got laid off this week. How are they going to pay for heat this winter. It is not likely that they will be able to line up a new job in time (especially since the cold weather is here now).

just out of curiosity, if it was hitler or stalin or saddam offering the fuel do you think we should have taken it?

Well, let's see. The US has done business with Saddam - for example, the Oil for Food program. And let's not forget how cozy the US was with Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the US was prepared to do business with Saddam right up until they invaded Iraq.

Do you want me to start listing all of the US companies that were doing business in Germany while Hitler was in power? But Hitler couldn't have sold the US oil at a cut-rate -- he needed it to supply his war effort.

Stalin? Well, the US probably wouldn't have bought from Stalin. After all, he was a communist, not a fascist like Hitler or Mussolini.

But why are you comparing Chavez to Saddam, Stalin, and Hitler? You may not agree with everything he does, but he certainly hasn't started any genocides or other death camps. He has taken some land and business out of private hands and put it into the public arena - but that isn't all that much different from how eminent domain is used in other countries (except he's taking from the rich and not the less-than-rich). Furthermore, he was democratically elected - several times - and with international observers auditing the vote for honesty as well. The guy had over 60% of the popular vote. Some people would call that a "mandate".

I'm not positive, but if this isn't sanctioned by the Federal Government, it's illegal and can't happen. The US states themselves cannot independently engage in international politics and economics.
At least the conservatives on the board are sticking to their pro-states' rights principles.

I'm sure Ted "the Swimmer" Kennedy and his families oil holdings could do something about "affordable" heating oil.

BTW-Maybe those people using heating oil should get with the 21th century and switch to something more efficient?

...Kinda like buying stolen property.....

Kinda like profiting from the misery of others

So what, holy person? Would you deny those in need their freedom to choose with whom they do business?

This is exactly what you advocate so strongly; - taking responsibility for themselves. Instead of waiting for uncle sam to find oil that is kosher.

Be careful, there is hippocracy around. You don't want to step in it.;)

\
BTW-Maybe those people using heating oil should get with the 21th century and switch to something more efficient?

Ah, but there's the rub... you have to be able to afford to buy the more efficient heaters, whether it is a central heating system or otherwise...

An oil based heater remains second only to building a fire pit when it comes to cheap equipment.

I pay my bills just fine. I'd like to add that one of the ways I do that is by cutting frivolous spending, as in I don't assume I have the right to spend $60 dollars a month on a cell phone so I can look cool in front of my friends, or spending $80 on a pair of jeans for the same purpose.
Good for you. There's no evidence that the people who buy this oil spend frivilously.

I pick the third option. It isn't the governments responsibility to pay my fucking bills. It's mine. That's why every month, when my bills go out, it's MY name on the checks, not Uncle Sam's. People need to learn some responsibility for their lives, and work some overtime if that is what it takes! Like I said before, people need to get off of the governments tit.
They're not being given oil. They're buying it.

Really, enough with the libertarian ideological ranting. Get pragmatism!

Are you seriously suggesting that there isn't any way to get heating oil in Massechusetts? Do a bit of research on the marketplace. The only reason they are dealing with Chaves is because they are getting it 40% cheaper.
Kinda like buying stolen property. Sure, it's cheaper, but it doesn't make you any less of a selfish asshole.
Why is the Venezualan oil stolen?

It isn't the governments job to "be there" for you when you need to pay your bills. It is YOUR job to pay your bills! Get a second job, quit blowing money on fast food, quit having babies you can't afford, quit buying Gap jeans, quit paying for internet connections and cable if you can't afford your fucking heating bill!
It is the government's - any government's - job to be there to ensure the well-being of its citizens.

just out of curiosity, if it was hitler or stalin or saddam offering the fuel do you think we should have taken it?
:rolleyes:

At least the conservatives on the board are sticking to their pro-states' rights principles.
Sadly, this is un-Constitutional, and I don't mean in the Ammendments. Well un-Constitutional if Congress doesn't approve. Though, the "conservatives" don't care about the Constitution anyway if it disagree with their personal opinions. (full faith and credit *cough*)

I'm not positive, but if this isn't sanctioned by the Federal Government, it's illegal and can't happen. The US states themselves cannot independently engage in international politics and economics.

The States can not sign treaties but I don't think it is illegal for them to sign business agreements. Good going Massachusetts.

just out of curiosity, if it was hitler or stalin or saddam offering the fuel do you think we should have taken it?
Godwin? As far as I'm aware Chavez doesn't murder his own people. Sure he's a crazy socialist but.. well.. he's kinda funny! You got to admire they guy for his blatent manipulation of his people. Not the subtle, quiet manipulation like other democracies but full-on brainwashing! The man is far from shy.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

My state hath betrayed me! What ever happened to being the cradle of liberty?!? We're selling our souls to the devil, just so we can crank up the heat to 71 degrees instead of 70!

When the government creates the problem by entering a war of choice in Iraq, driving up world oil prices, then it is their repsonsibility to help those citizens in our nation who are hurt to the point that they will freeze to death.

The same goes true for natural disasters like huricanes. The government has a responsibility to help the people that will DIE if they don't get help.

The government is not responsible for our energy problems, the environmentalists are. They don't want us drilling our own oil, they don't want us building refineries, they don't want nuclear power plants, won't let us burn coal, and even opposed wind farms in Massachusetts. Oh, and did I mention they have no solution to our energy problems?

:rolleyes:

Have no fear... He has only used:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/DrkHelmet/MTG%20Cards/Hitler.jpg

However, I am here to save you. I have produced this card:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/DrkHelmet/MTG%20Cards/ThatDoesntApply.jpg

Have fun!

It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!

Unfortunatly, there isn't a lot of that around anymore. :(

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

My state hath betrayed me! What ever happened to being the cradle of liberty?!? We're selling our souls to the devil, just so we can crank up the heat to 71 degrees instead of 70!

That's absurd. We're not selling our souls so we can crank up the heat one degree. We're not selling our souls at all, and we're doing this so several thousand people can afford heating oil this winter.

Incidentally, we got about three inches of snow here today.

You understand nothing about poverty. And really that is besides the point. Massachusettes is solving the problem by giving it's citizens oil that can fit into a working person's budget. That's good news.

Yes it is a good thing when the State helps its citizens that need help instead of expecting the Federal Government to do it. Yea for the Republican governor of Massachusetts.

I'm sure Ted "the Swimmer" Kennedy and his families oil holdings could do something about "affordable" heating oil.

BTW-Maybe those people using heating oil should get with the 21th century and switch to something more efficient?

Like electricity produced by nuclear power? Good idea.

Yes it is a good thing when the State helps its citizens that need help instead of expecting the Federal Government to do it. Yea for the Republican governor of Massachusetts.

Yea for Mitt Romney having almost nothing to do with this deal.

Yea for Mitt Romney having almost nothing to do with this deal.

So, who did?

So, who did?

Some state senator from Quincy, as is my understanding.

$5 bucks says the Bush gov't will get involved somehow and screw it up for those people in MA... Just like we the whole buying drugs from canada. THere was a big deal here in Illinois some months ago...I forget how it ended it up... But I do applaud MA for standing up for what is right and providing for their loyal citizens. Hope many more states follow suit!
Um, didn't the canadians on their own enact laws to stop that? I'm relatively sure they did, and we had that jackass Blagojevich trying to set up a statewide system for that in Illinois.

This is the only time in history Massachusetts and Venezuela have ever been used in the same sentance.

Some state senator from Quincy, as is my understanding.
I think it was Rep. Delahunt. The deal was technically through Citgo, which is a subsidiary of Venezuelas state oil company. For that reason, I hope all those criticizing this deal don't buy Citgo gas. You're just supporting this "madman"

I am curious. Does anyone else remember Idi Amin?

Clause 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Well, unless Congress feels mighty nice, this is technically Illegal. But if it became a State of Emergency...

Um, didn't the canadians on their own enact laws to stop that? I'm relatively sure they did, and we had that jackass Blagojevich trying to set up a statewide system for that in Illinois.

Yes, Canada was afraid so many Americans would get drugs from Canadian pharmacies Canada would end up with a shortage of drugs for Canadians.

I am curious. Does anyone else remember Idi Amin?

Yes. He was a crazy bastard. I think he is still alive in whatever country he took refuge in.

Yes. He was a crazy bastard. I think he is still alive in whatever country he took refuge in.

Nope, passed away recently :(

Um, didn't the canadians on their own enact laws to stop that? I'm relatively sure they did, and we had that jackass Blagojevich trying to set up a statewide system for that in Illinois.

The Canadian government has not yet enacted any legislation on this topic, although there is a bill waiting to be voted on, which will, incidentally, be lost in the great abyss that all bills go into when an election is called. Which could be anytime between December and April.

In other words, there are currently no federal laws in Canada stopping cross-border mail-order/internet pharamcies (etc), other than those that try to ensure that people are using legal prescriptions, that sort of thing.

I am curious. Does anyone else remember Idi Amin?

The guy who made human liver an internationally known delicacy?

I am curious. Does anyone else remember Idi Amin?

Okay, I'll bite (figuratively!). Why have you brought up Idi Amin?

Every state should negotiate a deal like this with Venezuela. If Chavez ends up selling his oil, his nation's major export and source of most of their money, at a discount we could bankrupt the bastards.

Every state should negotiate a deal like this with Venezuela. If Chavez ends up selling his oil, his nation's major export and source of most of their money, at a discount we could bankrupt the bastards.
oh you devious, devious man.

People, this is a good thing. It's fucking cold here!

People, this is a good thing. It's fucking cold here!
hmm...Watertown...thats near Boston, right? How much snow did you guys get? (I'm wondering what to expect when I get back up there sunday)