NationStates Jolt Archive

I was juts wondering on people opions and how the "civilized" world let those people die, perosnally I find us a pathetic bunch of fast talking burecrats tanged in red tape..:(

Who remembers how to use an apostrophe correctly?

Funny:rolleyes:

Who remembers how to use an apostrophe correctly?
I remember how!

I could ask, long those lines, who remembers how to use proper spelling and grammar?

And yay! A poll where I can pick BOTH options!

Are we talking about Rwanda or apostrophes? 'Cos I can remember both.

please be serious...:mad:

An apostrophe, a semi-colon, and a machete-wielding-comma walk into a bar...oh, be serious, you say.

Ok. Well, I 'remember' Rwanda; at least I remember remembering it. I don't know enough about the complexities of the situation to judge, but yes, I think UN action was a problem then.

please be serious...:mad:
I'll be serious when you edit your first post so it's coherent.

Of course I do! Their deaths will not be in vain.

please be serious...:mad:

No can do.

But for what it's worth, we tore apart the U.S.(who seems to take turns thinking they are the World's police force and claiming not to be, whichever is more convenient at the time), th U.N.(who moves at the pace of a quadraplegic sloth), and Europe(Who fucked Africa up so badly in the first place).

We've pretty much coverd all the bases.

Ok. Well, I 'remember' Rwanda; at least I remember remembering it. I don't know enough about the complexities of the situation to judge, but yes, I think UN action was a problem then. Was a problem then? It's still a problem now. The genocide in Darfur which the UN decided wasn't a genocide, despite the Janjaweed actually telling their victims that they were trying to destroy their race.

Was a problem then? It's still a problem now. The genocide in Darfur which the UN decided wasn't a genocide, despite the Janjaweed actually telling their victims that they were trying to destroy their race.

Agreed. It's frustrating how the UN decides to uphold human rights, not by actually upholding human rights, but by making the HRC more bureaucratic. Because paperclips will save the Sudanese...

Amen, and who heres seen Hotel Rwanda, sad movie:( :(

Amen, and who heres seen Hotel Rwanda, sad movie:( :(

I base all of my political opinions on movies.

Amen, and who heres seen Hotel Rwanda, sad movie:( :(

So is Bambi. Not a lot the UN could have done about that.

The UN and member states appeared largely detached from the realities on the ground. In the midst of the crisis, Dallaire was instructed to have UNAMIR focus only on evacuating foreign nationals from Rwanda, and the change in orders even led Belgian peacekeepers to abandon a technical school filled with 2,000 refugees, while Hutu militants waited outside, drinking beer and chanting "Hutu Power." After the Belgians left, the militants entered the school and massacred those inside, including hundreds of children. Four days later the Security Council voted to reduce UNAMIR down to 260 men.

The UN and member states appeared largely detached from the realities on the ground. In the midst of the crisis, Dallaire was instructed to have UNAMIR focus only on evacuating foreign nationals from Rwanda, and the change in orders even led Belgian peacekeepers to abandon a technical school filled with 2,000 refugees, while Hutu militants waited outside, drinking beer and chanting "Hutu Power." After the Belgians left, the militants entered the school and massacred those inside, including hundreds of children. Four days later the Security Council voted to reduce UNAMIR down to 260 men.

That's nice. But...it's over? What good does it do to get angry about it now? Isn't it better to propose reform?

So is Bambi. Not a lot the UN could have done about that.

Yes, but that still leaves the question as to why they couldn't do anything. And that was because the U.N. Forces on the ground were given orders not to help, and even had they disobeyed orders, they were outnumbered and only had the ammunition to last about 30 minutes. When the commander of the UN forces requested assistance, his request was denied. In short, he had to choose between the lives of his men and doing the right thing.

According to the U.N. commander, most of the killings (1 million) were low-tech, primarily with machetes. A single American RCT, properly outfitted and supported, could have stopped 80% of the killings. We didn't do so, because Clinton was afraid of political repercussions in the wake of intervening in Somalia, because the UN was looking the other way, and because no one else had the strength or the will to do anything. We often look at people in the past and cringe at their willingness to tolerate extreme injustice simply because it was the easy thing to do. I think what happened in Rwanda, and what is happening in Darfur right now, will lead our children to castigate us just the same: apparently, the inalienable rights of man apply only to those who happen to sit on valuable natural resources or strategically important clods of dirt.

According to the U.N. commander,






The Un commander was General Romeo Dallaire a Canadian (so proud)

Notice that everyone who voted "no", also voted "yes"?

According to the U.N. commander,






The Un commander was General Romeo Dallaire a Canadian (so proud)Yes I agree fully with you. General Dallaire suffered a mental breakdown because of what happened there.The U.N. also tried to pin the blame for the deaths of some Belgian Peacekeepers. Pathetic. He later wrote a book about his experience there called ''Shake Hands With The Devil''. It's when something like that happens that makes me wonder about the usefulness of the United Nations!

I was juts wondering the same thing...

I'm probably one of the very people on NS who's actually been to Rwanda (in 1989, five years before the genocide). An Australian friend of mine was also evacuated - by land - from Kigali either immediately before or after Habyarimana's plane was shot down.

For what it's worth, it's worth drawing a distinction between the UN and the French.

Yes, the UN failed Rwanda miserably. The UN general on the ground, Dallaire, to his immense credit knew what was coming and requested permission to confiscate weapons and pleaded for reinforcements and additional logistical support. He was turned down. UNAMIR remained under-funded and under-staffed, and was further crippled by member states' reluctance to call what was happening on the ground 'genocide' through a fear that they'd be forced to intervene through their obligations under anti-genocide treaties. Clinton's no more or less guilty than any other western leader in the latter regard.

But the French... They actually sent troops in. Unfortunately, Operation Turquoise, while ostensibly designed to create a secure zone against the genocide, was flawed from the beginning - it typically only moved to 'pacify' areas after the local Tutsis and moderate Hutus had already been killed or forced out. Operation Turquoise has also been accused of assisting the Hutu army against the RPF (though I stress that no one has ever accused the French troops of being involved in the genocide). This has left the French open to the charge that French involvement had little to do with ending the genocide, and everything to do with maintaining influence with a friendly francophone regime in central Africa in preference to seeing an anglophone government come to power in the region (most the RPF leadership were English-speaking after spending years in Uganda).

So while the UN twiddled its thumbs, and the French troops on the ground watched the country they were ostensibly trying to save bleed to death, half a million to a million people were hacked to death with machetes. You don't need a gas chamber to organise a highly efficient genocide.

The really sad thing is that anyone on the ground who was willing to talk to me about the division between Hutu and Tutsi would tell me that "nobody worries about that anymore - we're all Rwandans now". Given that their identity cards all stated which group they belonged to - and events five years later proved that everyone knew everyone else's ethnic group - I suspect they were lying to the nosy foreigner.