NationStates Jolt Archive

I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

If you are responsible enough to vote, drive, get married, get divorced, live on your own, sue and be sued, be tried as an adult, You should be allowed to have the choice to drink or not to drink alcohol.

*poll to be added

I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

If you are responsible enough to vote, drive, get married, get divorced, live on your own, sue and be sued, be tried as an adult, You should be allowed to have the choice to drink or not to drink alcohol.

*poll to be added

You are also deemed responsible enough to help chose the leaders of our country and volunteer to defend it.

I heartily agree.

ahhh alchohal is the root of all evil

You are also deemed responsible enough to help chose the leaders of our country and volunteer to defend it.

I heartily agree.
I agree fully.

Heck, by sixteen, you can have a job and drive! And with a job, comes the pleasure of paying tax; so why not move it lower? (just saying...)

You come of age when you are 18, right? So you really should have all the privileges then as well.
But I think drinking age and drinking culture can be a very cultural thing. In Germany, legal drinking age is 16 and alcohol abuse is less than in many other countries that have a legal drinking age of 18, like Ireland and England, which have a strickingly different concept of "drinking"

I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

If you are responsible enough to vote, drive, get married, get divorced, live on your own, sue and be sued, be tried as an adult, You should be allowed to have the choice to drink or not to drink alcohol.

*poll to be added
agreed totally.

besides most people are more mature with regard to drinking (at least) at 18 than 16 (which i'm sure some people will advocate)


*is glad the drinking age in the uk is 18 allready*

Binge drinking should be mandatory.

I agree, it should definetely be lowered to 18. A twenty-one drinking age makes drunk driving occur more frequently because you have to drive places sometimes to get the alcohol.

Maybe I'm the nut, but I think that if you're old enough to join the military and die for your country, then you should be mature enough to have a beer. :p

Ban alcohol, it causes drunken rages and makes people murderous hooligans. same with drugs. and tobacco just kills people, as do drugs.

in conclusion, drugs, alchol, smoking=bad

well actually, alcohol isn't bad as such (yet i still think drugs and smoking are) it's the level at which people drink alcohol that cuases the problems. i think that if you raised taxes on alcohol, not only would you have more money going into the economy, you would have less people getting drunk and smashing up cars.. because let's face it, it ain't exactly the people with bags of cash that do it is it? it's the poorly educated lower classes that do it to extremes, and they don't have enough money anyway if we increased the tax on booze. so everyones a winner. people that contribute to society get drink, and people who leech off the welfare state get none... simple!

I believe the legal drinking age varies from state to state, some states are lower than 21.

agreed totally.

besides most people are more mature with regard to drinking (at least) at 18 than 16 (which i'm sure some people will advocate)


*is glad the drinking age in the uk is 18 allready*
If the legal drinking age in the UK were brought down to 16, the only thing that would see any kind of reduction would be underage drinking.

Honestly the legal drinking age doesn't stop teenagers from drinking before then. When my son was teething my mom taught me to put brandy or rum on his gums to numb them. When I was nine my mom let me have a sip of wine to see what it tasted like. I say ban the limits all together. They really don't seem to control the issue anyway.

Since when did god hate booze? If anything, the bible seems to promote drinking.

Water into wine after all.

You are also deemed responsible enough to help chose the leaders of our country and volunteer to defend it.

I heartily agree.

As big as these decisions sound, they're not all that big of a deal. Voting? Come on, you are choosing between qualified candidates. You could ask a five-year-old who they thought was a better candidate and still come up with someone qualified for the office.

As for military service? If you take a bunch of kids, give them guns, and send them off to another country, are they going to cause any damage to your neighborhood? No, they're thousands of miles away and any damage they cause to someone else's country, intentionally or unintentionally, is going to go in the win column.

Alcohol usage requires more responsibility because there is more to lose for irresponsible use.

To alcohol!The cause of,and solution to,all of life's problems.

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Stupid jolt

To alcohol!
http://www.joetownwebs.com/image/jtw.beer.1.jpg

If the legal drinking age in the UK were brought down to 16, the only thing that would see any kind of reduction would be underage drinking.
quite true, but at the moment its harder (than it would be) for 16 year olds to get booze, and it should stay that way. ie "underage" drinking would rise if it were easier to get hold of the stuff because most 16 year olds are less mature in this area... though thats probably only because by the time you're 18 you've been there and done that, and booze isn't so exciting anymore :p

i don't know and, frankly, i don't care

Ok, looks like there is a general consensus to lower the drinking age...

quite true, but at the moment its harder (than it would be) for 16 year olds to get booze, and it should stay that way. ie "underage" drinking would rise if it were easier to get hold of the stuff because most 16 year olds are less mature in this area... though thats probably only because by the time you're 18 you've been there and done that, and booze isn't so exciting anymore :p

i don't know and, frankly, i don't care

In my entire 31 years I have never seen a 16 year old have any problem with getting booze. Where there's a will there's a way. I have never figured out how they do it, but they've got it down to an art.

I believe the legal drinking age varies from state to state, some states are lower than 21.

Drinking laws are on a state by state basis, but they're all 21. That's because Uncle Sam threatens to take their highway money if they lower it.

IIRC Louisiana tried to make it 21 to buy but 18 to drink several years ago, but Uncle Sam threatened them into submission.

I believe the legal drinking age varies from state to state, some states are lower than 21.

I think its a federal restriction to keep the drinking age at 21 or higher, in the states.

I would say just leave the drinking age how it is. when it was set at 18, which wasn't that long ago, more high school kids were missing school and dropping out due to drunken parties that are now connected to college life. Also, many studies showed that people just under the drinking age could drink fairly easy due to looking like their older buddies, and such, and so at 18, non-adults were drinking much more, and at 21 it falls mainly onto 18 and older.

I am against lowering the drinking age mainly to protect against any further drop outs. The public school system does a good enough job of ruining people, so lets keep anything else out of there.

I say ban alcohol and legalise cannabis :P

If the people feel they cannot live life without some kind of mind altering substance, better one that doesn't cause aggression and very easy addiction :D

If you are responsible enough to vote

Election 2004 proved to America that 18-24 years olds are not responsible enough to vote.

Election 2004 proved to America that 18-24 years olds are not responsible enough to vote.

Just because most of the 18-24 year olds didn't vote for the Idiot-In-Chief doesn't make them bad voters, everyone else who voted for Bush were the bad voters.

Just because most of the 18-24 year olds didn't vote for the Idiot-In-Chief doesn't make them bad voters, everyone else who voted for Bush were the bad voters.

Or perhaps where sober to realize that Kerry was a bad choice.

Drinking age should stay at 21 and in regards to states, as far as I know, it is 21 for every state.

What scares me more than the high drinking age in America (it's 18 in Australia), is the fact that they let SIXTEEN-year-olds drive! Now that's cause for concern, methinks. I'd be all for raising the legal driving age to 18.

When a kid turns 18 in Australia he can use his brand new P-plates to drive himself to the bottle shop and buy his first legal booze, then go and vote. :D

Every few weeks, this topic comes up, and every few weeks the tall and the short of it remains the same:

1.) States are free to set their drinking age at whatever they want. All they'll lose is a small percentage of federal highway funding (23 U.S.C. 158). The law has been upheld by a 7-2 vote in the Supreme Court (South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203 (1987)).

2.) To get rid of the highway funding loss, Congress has to change the law. Not going to happen regardless of who's in power. It was passed by a democratic congress with bipartisan support (81-16 in the Senate and 297-73 in the House) and signed by a republican president. Attacking this bill in Congress would be political suicide as organized groups like MADD would use their sway and money (neither of which 18-20 year olds have much of) to defeat the bill, and demonize the proposing Congressmen. And even if Congress changes the law, since it's on the books of all 50 states, you'd need your particular state to undo their enactment.

3.) The concern in Congress for this relatively unorganized and traditionally low-voter-turnout demographic is ZERO. And the argument of "they do it in coutry X" doesn't work. This is America. We don't care what other country's laws are.

4.) Most voting age people don't care, because the vast, vast majority are over 21. The only ones who really care are those people in between 18 and 21.

5.) The population for roughly the past 20 years has had to wait till they turn 21, so there's going to be no sympathy. We had to wait, why shouldn't you?

6.) It took the Vietnam War and the draft ("you're old enough to kill but not for votin'") to secure a right viewed as fundamental for 18 year olds. Call me funny, but the ability to drink is not held anywhere near as sacrosanct.

It's a dead issue. It isn't changing anytime soon. The only under-21's in the US who will be drinking with any regularity are those who live near the Canadian border. Wait your turn just as everyone for the past 20+ years has. Don't like it? Tough.

i personally think the european model (16 to be allowed wine and beer, 18 for spirits) should be adopted everywhere


americans have it amazingly wrong even by their standards(and that is saying something)

What scares me more than the high drinking age in America (it's 18 in Australia), is the fact that they let SIXTEEN-year-olds drive! Now that's cause for concern, methinks. I'd be all for raising the legal driving age to 18.

When a kid turns 18 in Australia he can use his brand new P-plates to drive himself to the bottle shop and buy his first legal booze, then go and vote. :D

*jealous*:mad:

*plans to move to australia*

I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

If you are responsible enough to vote, drive, get married, get divorced, live on your own, sue and be sued, be tried as an adult, You should be allowed to have the choice to drink or not to drink alcohol.

*poll to be added
er...you're tying a god to the banning of alchohole? you should have had another option like this:
ban alchohole because it lowers awarness, has permenant negative side affects, and removes the ability to judge properly along with many other negative affects.

Its said but the US is kinda backwards in alot of things. I mean 21 to drink is almost Taliban like. As a German American currently living in Germany i love it here. Here you have to be 16 to drink " Soft" Alkohol like beer and 18 for hard liquor. You can drink on the streets and nobody cares. I like to be free and do whatever I want and yes I am a very responsible Person. When I drink I let somebody drive or use Public transportation. I would say let the states in the US decide and don't cut foundings when they decide to leave the age or not. I mean in a free country every state should decide thats it. And I dont get it why I can't drink in public.... when I walk down the streets in the US I feel like a criminal just because I like to enjoy life.

er...you're tying a god to the banning of alchohole? you should have had another option like this:
ban alchohole because it lowers awarness, has permenant negative side affects, and removes the ability to judge properly along with many other negative affects.

It is a fair comparison because the American Abolisionist Movement was built on "God Hates Booze" and the morals (or lack thereof) of drinking.

Keeping alcohol out of those out of high school is more trouble than it's worth, so by all means, lower the drinking age to 18 (well, I say 19 myself just to keep it out of the high schools, but it probably won't matter either way.) A 19-year-old college student having a beer isn't going to bring about Armageddon, so let it go.

Frankly, my personal view of alcohol is radically different from my political view of it. Politically, I say to let adults do as they please. Personally, I disapprove of drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, and using hard drugs, though I would never advocate outlawing any of them. I believe that alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs cause more trouble than they are worth, but I also believe that banning them compounds that trouble and makes it not even worth banning them. So given the choice between a heap of problems with mind-altering shit or a huge heap or problems with this bogus War on Drugs, I'll take legalized liquor and pot any day.

The age for beeing allowed to buy your own alkohol should be restricted to something around 16 or 18. Until this age you are in growth serious and alcohol will be harmful.

If your parents decide to give you alcohol before this age or you get an older friend to buy you something on a regular basis - it is their fault. Such a law is not made to stop irresponsible people altogether.

Beside the ageline there has to be the right culture teaching a healthy attitude towards alcohol or drugs in general. The ageline has nothing to do with this:

The average German consumes more alcohol per year as the average Britain. But in GB there is this thing called "binge drinking" (Hey! I have a new rule! Every time you want to drink, you have to drink!) which is quite devastating. Beeing dead drunk is the exception here, in GB it seems to be normal.
I guess the USA would not fare much better. Keyword "beer pong" for example. I remember reading reports once in a while about college students drinking themself near or to death in initiations for fraternities. That is no healthy attitude.

I think its a federal restriction to keep the drinking age at 21 or higher, in the states.

I would say just leave the drinking age how it is. when it was set at 18, which wasn't that long ago, more high school kids were missing school and dropping out due to drunken parties that are now connected to college life. Also, many studies showed that people just under the drinking age could drink fairly easy due to looking like their older buddies, and such, and so at 18, non-adults were drinking much more, and at 21 it falls mainly onto 18 and older.

I am against lowering the drinking age mainly to protect against any further drop outs. The public school system does a good enough job of ruining people, so lets keep anything else out of there.


do you have anything to back up that claim? Most people in high school are not 18 or over. Actually, probably only half of seniors are. 18 is the magic number for college freshmen. Also, the fact that those large parties are connected to college life is evidence against your point. These large scale parties and heavy drinking occur at every university, from community college to harvard. Yet these are the top students. There is no correlation between drinking and drop out rates.

I go to school in boston. It is one of the most regulated cities drinking-wise. Many liquor stores only accept Mass IDs or passports. So you make friends with a 21 year old. Or get a good fake. Being underage doesnt stop me from drinking, but only makes it a little bit more of a challenge. And honestly, makes it a bit more entertaining.

How about teaching responsibility for actions rather than fear of the drug (such as how the DARE program handles it) As soon as a kid learns that one beer wont kill them, fear becomes intreague. The idea that dropping the drinking age will increase drop outs has little evidence. Large scale parties don't happen in high school not because of the drinking age, but because parents don't want them. They happen in college becase no one cares. dropping the drinking age to 18, or even 16, would still only make it legal for about half of high schoolers to drink.

The average German consumes more alcohol per year as the average Britain. But in GB there is this thing called "binge drinking" (Hey! I have a new rule! Every time you want to drink, you have to drink!) which is quite devastating. Beeing dead drunk is the exception here, in GB it seems to be normal.
I guess the USA would not fare much better. Keyword "beer pong" for example. I remember reading reports once in a while about college students drinking themself near or to death in initiations for fraternities. That is no healthy attitude.

Binge Drinking is quite popular in America, so are beer bongs (in fact ALL kinds of Bongs are popular) so don't think drinking is a british problem. All drugs cause problems but they would cause less problems if they were all legal and taxed, because it is the forbidden fruit that tastes sweetest.

When I was growing up it was legal for a minor to consume alcohol in a pub (bistro only, not the bar) or restaurant if they had their parents with them. From the time I was about 13 my dad would get me a light beer or a half-strength brandy and dry ('cause that's what my mum was drinking and so of course I wanted to try) if we were eating at the pub.

I think by introducing people to alcohol in that sort of environment, where it's supervised and limited but still allowed, lets kids learn to drink responsibly. It's generally when things are off-limits that kids feel an urge to experiment on their own, which leads to underage binge drinking and its associated problems.

I think a lot of the problem with drinking in America stems from the fact that the laws are too draconian. A kid sees that he can't drink until he's 21 and so finds ways to get around it. If the legal age were 18 and if drinking with parental supervision was okay even before that age, then I think more American teenagers would develop healthy attitudes towards alcohol.

Binge Drinking is quite popular in America, so are beer bongs (in fact ALL kinds of Bongs are popular) so don't think drinking is a british problem. All drugs cause problems but they would cause less problems if they were all legal and taxed, because it is the forbidden fruit that tastes sweetest.

Nope. That is no entirely true. As I said: binge drinking is unknown in Germany, although we have the same age-line as GB and more average alcohol-consumption.

Irresponsible attitudes towards alcohol have their roots in the environment, not in the laws or the forbiddenness. The laws are just against excesses in this case and they only draw a line because of scientifically sound reasons and also they do not totally forbid consumption.

This "forbidden fruit ist the sweetest" sounds nice as explanation, but is just too simple. Check for the other x forbidden fruits you are not tempted to taste. Or did you impregnate your sister lately, killed a man, stole a car, cheated in a test, tortured an animal (just because it was forbidden)?
It might have been an additional reason to do drink alcohol during the prohibition but the real reason was, that people liked their social drug to relax.

im so old that i was 18 during that golden era when it was legal to drink in almost every state at 18. (i turned 18 in 1975)

it was great to be able to drink legally in college. no sneaking around, no fear of getting busted. we went to the bar as adults and drank as adults.

i opposed the change in federal law (not that anyone asked me) it seems to me that it was changed around 1980.

it sucks. 18 year olds are adults and should have all the rights and privileges of adults.

Seriously, "lets let kids at 18 go get drunk at parties. It's legal now." So what I'm picturing right now is a high school Senior party were its legal to get drunk. :P

In my entire 31 years I have never seen a 16 year old have any problem with getting booze. Where there's a will there's a way. I have never figured out how they do it, but they've got it down to an art.
They (well accually it is we in this case) don't have to put in much effort to get alcohol. Just stand outside of a liquor store and ask people to buy you beer. Usually doesn't take more than 15 minutes. Then there are some teens who can get their parents to buy it for them.

Anyways, I think America should keep its drinking age at 21 for two main reasons: first, we make alot of money buy selling you 18-20 year olds beer on long weekends/spring break; second, it is hilarious to see a 19-year-old be out drank buy a 17 year old. Just to clarify we are laughing at you.

They (well accually it is we in this case) don't have to put in much effort to get alcohol. Just stand outside of a liquor store and ask people to buy you beer. Usually doesn't take more than 15 minutes. Then there are some teens who can get their parents to buy it for them.

Anyways, I think America should keep its drinking age at 21 for two main reasons: first, we make alot of money buy selling you 18-20 year olds beer on long weekends/spring break; second, it is hilarious to see a 19-year-old be out drank buy a 17 year old. Just to clarify we are laughing at you.
haha...nothing like "hey mistering". Or you can pay a bum to buy for you, if you don't mind the risk of being mugged/raped. Those were the good ol' days.

I was lucky, when I was 18 I was stationed in Germany, and I didn't come back to the States until I was 21. However, it did leave me with a taste for beer that doesn't resemble horsepiss, which was a problem until I discovered microbrews.

1. Lower the voting age to 16. Maybe if schools (and parents) actually had to worry about kids voting, they'd bother to give them a political education.

2. Raise the age for military enlistment to 21. Keep the recruiters out of high schools.

3. Raise the drinking age to 25. The number of college students with ready access to liquor should be reduced to a bare minimum. Plus, according to the insurance companies, 25 is around the age that we boys finally grow out of our risk-taking, thrill-seeking, "invincible" stage. Sorry girls... due to equal protection, it seems we have to ruin this one for everybody.

4. Legalize marijuana. (Although driving while stoned should receive a harsh penalty.)

:D

P.S. I don't buy the "drinking age restrictions don't work" argument. If they don't work, and it's "so easy" for minors to get alcohol, what are they all complaining about? It can only be one of two things: 1) it is rather difficult for them to get a drink, and they wish it were not; or 2) they manage to get alcohol, but they are getting caught and prosecuted... but in my experience, the cops only find out that you are drunk if you are drunk and stupid, so any minors getting caught drunk are merely proving that they are, in fact, not responsible enough for the privilege.

P.P.S. My father is a drug and alcohol counselor (for a college campus)... and in his college days, he did a fair number of drugs--most of them illegal. I just want to mention here that he considers alcohol one of the most dangerous drugs of all: one of the most addictive, one of the most prone to abuse and overdose, and one of the most likely to impair judgment and motor skills in extremely dangerous ways. From my own experience, I concur.

To reiterate: legalize marijuana. :D

I agree fully.

Heck, by sixteen, you can have a job and drive! And with a job, comes the pleasure of paying tax; so why not move it lower? (just saying...)

Speaking of jobs, I think you should have to be 18 to get one. At that age, the demands of a decent secondary education (with the chance of a college education) should not have to compete with a job, when children still live with parents who should be supporting them.

Moreover, that teenage workforce, willing to work for practically nothing because minimum wage seems like a fortune when you don't have to pay rent, dramatically increases the pool of labor, driving down wages for people who do have bills to pay and children to feed.

At the very least, the number of hours high school students are allowed to work should be severely reduced.

You come of age when you are 18, right? So you really should have all the privileges then as well.
But I think drinking age and drinking culture can be a very cultural thing. In Germany, legal drinking age is 16 and alcohol abuse is less than in many other countries that have a legal drinking age of 18, like Ireland and England, which have a strickingly different concept of "drinking"

Here I agree. I do not think there is a "magic number" that works universally. My comments in previous posts refer specifically to the situation and culture of the United States.

Honestly the legal drinking age doesn't stop teenagers from drinking before then. When my son was teething my mom taught me to put brandy or rum on his gums to numb them. When I was nine my mom let me have a sip of wine to see what it tasted like.

That is a far sight from unsupervised binge drinking!!

Some states already have exceptions to the drinking age, including allowance for drinking under parental supervision. In theory at least, I support these sorts of exceptions.

In my entire 31 years I have never seen a 16 year old have any problem with getting booze. Where there's a will there's a way. I have never figured out how they do it, but they've got it down to an art.

One can obtain pretty much anything if one tries hard enough. But by this logic, there would be little point to any laws at all.

It would be foolish to think that a law will prevent "everyone" to whom it applies from engaging in the prohibited activity. What prohibitions do is increase the intensity and duration of "will" required to make a "way".

Were alcohol legal for a 16-year-old, he or she could obtain it on a whim, provided he/she possessed the necessary funds -- much like any 16-year-old can buy a candy bar or clothes.

Because it is illegal, however, a child who wants alcohol usually needs to plan how to sneak it, or go about asking people -- people whose reactions he/she cannot predict -- to buy it for her/him. Even if the chances of success are relatively good, this means that a significant number of interested children simply will not have that much will or desire. Even more will be deterred by the obvious risks involved.

So the question is not "does the drinking age prevent all minors from drinking," but rather, "does the drinking age prevent a significant number of minors from drinking?"

One can argue that the relevant number is not, in fact, worth all the effort. But to do that, one would actually have to evaluate that number, and the costs of regulation. Few people in this discussion seem interested in doing so.

In any case, it is a ridiculous argument to state that "the drinking age is ineffective because some minors still drink." This amounts to the form "Law X is ineffective because people break it," which may as well be "Law is ineffective because there are criminals."

We're not looking at the problem here, the problem is the parents. Parents who are strict with their children and promote alcohol as being the root of all evil and constantly try to act as if alcoholic beverages don't exist, then of COURSE when they reach the age of stupidity (around 14 lasting all the way to the mid 20's) they're going to go fucking crazy and abuse it. If you're a parent ask yourself this: would you rather expose your children to alcohol early on and have them drink responsibly in your presence, or have them grow up and abuse it in ways that would horrify you behind your back?

I would say just leave the drinking age how it is. when it was set at 18, which wasn't that long ago, more high school kids were missing school and dropping out due to drunken parties that are now connected to college life. Also, many studies showed that people just under the drinking age could drink fairly easy due to looking like their older buddies, and such, and so at 18, non-adults were drinking much more, and at 21 it falls mainly onto 18 and older.

Exactly. Now just replace "high school" with "college" and you will see why I think it should be increased to 25 or so.

My girlfriend and I both teach college students. Both of us have seen more students drop out, fail out, or just earn a miserable GPA because of their drinking than for any other reason. (This is compounded by the fraternity system at both of our universities, but I'll save those complaints for another thread.)

What scares me more than the high drinking age in America (it's 18 in Australia), is the fact that they let SIXTEEN-year-olds drive! Now that's cause for concern, methinks. I'd be all for raising the legal driving age to 18.

I'd be fine with that. As far as I'm concerned, the only place kids under 18 need to go is to school... and there are buses for that!

In fact, I did not drink when I was in high school... but the "freedom" of having my own car and a driver's license got me into trouble enough. I actually went from first in my class academically to high school drop-out in about a year, essentially because I was skipping school to visit a (completely insane) girlfriend who lived forty minutes away.

(I wound up heading off to college the very next year, with no high school diploma... Still, things could easily have gone much worse, had I not woken up to this girl's craziness just in time.)

Lower to 18

do you have anything to back up that claim? Most people in high school are not 18 or over. Actually, probably only half of seniors are.

The point was not that many high school students could legally obtain alcohol when the drinking age was 18. Rather, they would almost certainly have friends who could. Today, the situation is the same for college students. Relatively few college students (and mostly only seniors) are 21. (I graduated at 20.) Yet most college students can get alcohol because they know these kids, probably live with them or near them, and the 21-year-olds are constantly holding parties to which pretty much any student is invited.

Also, the fact that those large parties are connected to college life is evidence against your point. These large scale parties and heavy drinking occur at every university, from community college to harvard. Yet these are the top students. There is no correlation between drinking and drop out rates.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Yes, the top schools have parties. However, as a college educator I can tell you that the top students are almost always the ones who do not drink, or do not drink regularly. The drop-outs tend to drink regularly, and in excess. (They also tend to be members of fraternities, but I've already promised not to get into that.)

Large scale parties don't happen in high school not because of the drinking age, but because parents don't want them.

Maybe it's only out in the woods where I grew up, but it seems high school students can always find a pavilion or a shack in which to drink, and someone's parents are always out-of-town. What prevented such parties from happening much more frequently than they did was that my peers needed more than just a place to party: they needed alcohol, too, and they couldn't just pop on by the liquor store to get it.

wow more gunplay at clubs at the states, thats what would result in morons kids being able to drink at 18. News flash yanks you cant hold your booze.

I allways liked not being an American, in Belgium the drinking age is 18, and 16 for beer :p
We rock so much
but then we also have the best beers in the world
(Including 5 of the 6 only real trappist beers!!!)
And a beer called bush with 12% alcohol.

See we rock? :D

I allways liked not being an American, in Belgium the drinking age is 18, and 16 for beer :p
We rock so much
but then we also have the best beers in the world
(Including 5 of the 6 only real trappist beers!!!)
And a beer called bush with 12% alcohol.

See we rock? :D

is stella a belgium beer? That is a very over rated beer

I think that last quote is proof enough of why the legal drinking age should stay at 21. Anybody who is still worried about how much they "rock" is not responsible enough to be drinking. :rolleyes: 18 is just too young ...why rush things. Jeez...its just alcohol the fact that you are so damn anxious to get it..suggests an immaturity level. Adults are patient and are willing to wait for things in life...children are impatient and want things now now now...It will be there at 21.... is getting drunk and puking all over yourself really that fun an activity. Dont give me..well I can go to war crap..the folks arguing this will probably run off to CAnada to avoid service or say Im gay so this shouldnt be a problem anyway.

I allways liked not being an American, in Belgium the drinking age is 18, and 16 for beer :p
We rock so much
but then we also have the best beers in the world
(Including 5 of the 6 only real trappist beers!!!)
And a beer called bush with 12% alcohol.

See we rock? :D


Stella Artois... cant think of a single belgian beer thats above average other than Stella

the real beer masters are and always will be the Germans with the Danes pulling in second

Stella Artois... cant think of a single belgian beer thats above average other than Stella

the real beer masters are and always will be the Germans with the Danes pulling in second

stella is terrible tastes like bud without the funky aftertaste

stella is terrible tastes like bud without the funky aftertaste


thats illustrating my point Stella is the only belgian beer near to good

Is tafelbier ('tabel'-beer) also illegal for everybody under your drinking age ?:eek: (yes there is alcohol in it but most tabelbeers dont have enough in it to really get drunk from it unless you drink very fast en very much of it)

I think that last quote is proof enough of why the legal drinking age should stay at 21. Anybody who is still worried about how much they "rock" is not responsible enough to be drinking.

Good point!!

Jeez...its just alcohol the fact that you are so damn anxious to get it..suggests an immaturity level. Adults are patient and are willing to wait for things in life...children are impatient and want things now now now...

Indeed. And for all of you who think, other minors may be irresponsible and reckless, but "I'm not"... real maturity involves the ability to differentiate between "fairness" and good public policy.

I am 24, but I advocate a drinking age of 25 (although I don't have a shred of hope that this will happen). I believe that I am responsible with alcohol, and have been so for several years. However, I look at the other people my age, and I think, "this is not good." I look at my students, and I wish that it were harder for them to get alcohol.

Would it be "unfair" to prohibit responsible drinkers such as myself from drinking alcohol, just to prevent the majority of people my age, who cannot handle it, from drinking?

Yes. It would be unfair. But I am mature enough to handle a little unfairness for the greater good.

I'd be fine with that. As far as I'm concerned, the only place kids under 18 need to go is to school... and there are buses for that!

In fact, I did not drink when I was in high school... but the "freedom" of having my own car and a driver's license got me into trouble enough. I actually went from first in my class academically to high school drop-out in about a year, essentially because I was skipping school to visit a (completely insane) girlfriend who lived forty minutes away.

(I wound up heading off to college the very next year, with no high school diploma... Still, things could easily have gone much worse, had I not woken up to this girl's craziness just in time.)
Okay, how about this. 2 working parents. Kid needs to get to school, home, and after school activities like sports and clubs. Yes, there are busses to and from school, but most people are doing other things after. How about going to a friends house to study? Or driving a younger sibling to soccer practice? You want to tell me that high school students, who will be living on their own in 2 years or less, are not mature enough to drive? And that this isn't helpful for their families?

You dropped out. that sucks, but you learned a big lesson from it and got a wake up call. Sheltering children from life doesnt teach them anything. Teach some responsibility and you wont have a problem


The point was not that many high school students could legally obtain alcohol when the drinking age was 18. Rather, they would almost certainly have friends who could. Today, the situation is the same for college students. Relatively few college students (and mostly only seniors) are 21. (I graduated at 20.) Yet most college students can get alcohol because they know these kids, probably live with them or near them, and the 21-year-olds are constantly holding parties to which pretty much any student is invited.
I'm two years out of high school. I can say that if I had about 6 hours notice, I could get enough booze to get a couple 30 racks. It is the same exact amount of work for me to get alcohol in college as it was for me to do so in high school. The drinking age changes nothing.


You are looking at it the wrong way. Yes, the top schools have parties. However, as a college educator I can tell you that the top students are almost always the ones who do not drink, or do not drink regularly. The drop-outs tend to drink regularly, and in excess. (They also tend to be members of fraternities, but I've already promised not to get into that.)
Untrue. I go to Boston University, ranked 75th in the world. I have friends at MIT, Harvard, Princeton, Berkley, Wellsley, CIT, NYU. These are all world ranked universities. At every single one of these schools, there are parties at the very least every weekend. My friend who has a 3.6 at Harvard drinks every single thursday, friday, and saturday. This is pretty standard across the board...although, the thursday varies depending on friday classes. Not a single person I have ever met from these top schools has falied or dropped out due to drinking. Actually, I do not know, nor do my friends know, a single person from these elite universities who have ever failed or dropped out (many transfer, but that is not leaving the university system). Is drinking a common thread in drop outs? I'm sure it is. But look at it in a different light. All students are drinking (well, the vast majority). I highly doubt that the rate in drop outs is much higher than non drop outs.

Maybe it's only out in the woods where I grew up, but it seems high school students can always find a pavilion or a shack in which to drink, and someone's parents are always out-of-town. What prevented such parties from happening much more frequently than they did was that my peers needed more than just a place to party: they needed alcohol, too, and they couldn't just pop on by the liquor store to get it.
Yeah, we partied up in the woods. I can't say how many times I've climbed a mountain for a kegger. Which is exactly my point. The higher drinking age has never stopped a party or drinking. It takes no effort to go find a place that doesnt card, get a fake ID, as an older sibling, as your parents, ask coworkers, ask random people on the streets...it really isnt hard at all.

thats illustrating my point Stella is the only belgian beer near to good
You dont know nothing about beer, Belgian beers are the best.
Stella Artois is just a pilsner; so its just beer for the masses, but its still much better than almost all pilsners (and most other types of beer) from outside of belgium.

Have you ever tasted a Duvel (http://www.duvel.be) (i would really like to see that..hehe)

I think that last quote is proof enough of why the legal drinking age should stay at 21. Anybody who is still worried about how much they "rock" is not responsible enough to be drinking. :rolleyes: 18 is just too young ...why rush things. Jeez...its just alcohol the fact that you are so damn anxious to get it..suggests an immaturity level. Adults are patient and are willing to wait for things in life...children are impatient and want things now now now...It will be there at 21.... is getting drunk and puking all over yourself really that fun an activity. Dont give me..well I can go to war crap..the folks arguing this will probably run off to CAnada to avoid service or say Im gay so this shouldnt be a problem anyway.
oh how very mature of you. An ad hominem attack mixed with a bit of straw man. (Yes, I see the irony here. Don't bother pointing it out.)

Perhaps I think it would be nice to have been able to have a glass of wine with my family on my sisters 21st birthday dinner. When I go to the caribbean or Canada, this is no problem. Why should it be here? And perhaps that poster was displaying a bit of immaturity (I'm not going to lable what he said one way or the other), but the fact is he can already drink, and is still alive and the world hasn't collapsed.
And bullshit adults are patient and children are impatient. Perhaps children prefer instant gratification, but so do adults. And we aren't discussing "children". We are discussing a group that is recognized as being in the age of the majority, yet is not given the same benefits as other members of this group.
And I wouldn't be so quick to criticize everyone from the ages of 18-21. You color us as all being immature assholes. I can find just as many of those in any age group.
Just because one person is like that does NOT mean every single person is. There are alcoholics of every age. Should we make alcohol illegal? Oh wait. We tried that. These oh so very mature adults went to speakeasies. Seems that people of every age will sneak behind the law to drink.

You dont know nothing about beer, Belgian beers are the best.
Stella Artois is just a pilsner; so its just beer for the masses, but its still much better than almost all pilsners (and most other types of beer) from outside of belgium.

Have you ever tasted a Duvel (http://www.duvel.be) (i would really like to see that..hehe)

Belgian beers are rank(hence why they are rarely sold outwith belgium

im not a fan of bubbly beers either so duvel scores points there but it takes like it was made with goats

Just because most of the 18-24 year olds didn't vote for the Idiot-In-Chief doesn't make them bad voters, everyone else who voted for Bush were the bad voters.

That wasn't against who they voted for, but rather for the fact that the voter turn out numbers were so staggeringly low for Election 2004. So, I say raise the drinking age to 25 and if you're going to use "responsibility of voting" as an argument, then you should be required to show your voter registration card in order to get a drink.

Speaking of jobs, I think you should have to be 18 to get one.

A bit off topic, but I very much disagree with this one. Some people's parents don't really have the money to support them. Or at the very least can't afford to give them the opportunities to help them succeed. When I was in high school I lived on a farm where our family income was about $20,000/year. That's combined between my mother and father.

During my junior year my French class was going on a trip to France. I was quite serious about French and wanted to go, but the $2,000 price tag made it impossible. I knew about this trip a year ahead of time and got a job at KFC. Over the summer and fall before the trip I had earned enough money to afford to go on the trip, during which my French proficiency increased more than the previous 3 years of classes combined.

Without that trip I probably wouldn't have decided to continue my French studies when I went to college (5 years after the trip) and I'm now thinking about being a French teacher in the US or an English language teacher in francophonic Europe when I'm done.

It looks like most people support lowering the drinking age.

When a kid turns 18 in Australia he can use his brand new P-plates to drive himself to the bottle shop and buy his first legal booze, then go and vote. :D

Makes a lot of sense. Who wouldn't want a drunk 18 year-old drving crazy all over the road to get to the polls where he would vote based not on anything important or intelligent but rather whatever the alcohol was making him think. I can see it now...

18-year-old: Hey dudes, I'm 18 now, I'm gonna go get me some beer.
At the store: Hey man, I'm buyin' beer.
*opens bottle, guzzles down
18-year-old: Dudes (slurred), now I'm gonna go and vote.
*Can't figure out how to use key, so he smashes the window in with his fists.
18-year-old: Dude, shit, that hurt.
*Drives out of parking lot, smashing the fender of a near-by car and knocking over an old lady while he's at it.
Old lady: Oh, my back! Why you little punk.
18-year-old: Hey, watch where you're goin', biotch.
*He proceeds to swerve left & right on the road on the way to the voting office, causing a bus full of kindgarteners to go off-road and tip over. 27 were killed.
*When he gets to the voting office, he crahses throuhg the wall and runs of 6 voters. Climbing out of the cars borken windshield, he says
18-year-old: Ah, dude, this ain't the voting place...
*As he vomits in the face of a security guard who was coming to help the little boy stuck under his tire.

Makes a lot of sense. Who wouldn't want a drunk 18 year-old drving crazy all over the road to get to the polls where he would vote based not on anything important or intelligent but rather whatever the alcohol was making him think. I can see it now...

18-year-old: Hey dudes, I'm 18 now, I'm gonna go get me some beer.
At the store: Hey man, I'm buyin' beer.
*opens bottle, guzzles down
18-year-old: Dudes (slurred), now I'm gonna go and vote.
*Can't figure out how to use key, so he smashes the window in with his fists.
18-year-old: Dude, shit, that hurt.
*Drives out of parking lot, smashing the fender of a near-by car and knocking over an old lady while he's at it.
Old lady: Oh, my back! Why you little punk.
18-year-old: Hey, watch where you're goin', biotch.
*He proceeds to swerve left & right on the road on the way to the voting office, causing a bus full of kindgarteners to go off-road and tip over. 27 were killed.
*When he gets to the voting office, he crahses throuhg the wall and runs of 6 voters. Climbing out of the cars borken windshield, he says
18-year-old: Ah, dude, this ain't the voting place...
*As he vomits in the face of a security guard who was coming to help the little boy stuck under his tire.

OMFG!

Too Funny!

:fluffle: (for MrMopar)

Isn't it illegal in most states to sell alchohol on election day before the polls close?

Not being a drinker myself but having friends who are, I can say that it is easy to acquire alcohol underage. Almost everyone I know has drunken alcohol (including myself, a sip of some piss-tasting beer). We get it from our parents (mostly by stealing, sometimes being given it), some adult friends, hell, sometimes even teachers. We sell alcohol to each other at school.

I bet $100 that I could go back to school on Monday (holidays here) and either come home with alcohol or arrange the purchase of alcohol. If not that, then I could arrange to go to a party with alcohol involved. Or, failing that, I could walk into the kitchen and steal a bottle of beer. That last one has more risk involve.

It looks like most people support lowering the drinking age.

Well, why don't you go show your congressman this very scientific poll. I'm sure that'll convince him you're right and they'll vote to lower the age or repeal the highway funding threat that keeps the law in place. And if you believe that one, i have a great bridge in brooklyn i'd like to sell you.

It's an exercise in futility. The "infinite wisdom" of the NS general forum users aside, the drinking age will remain at 21 for at least the forseeable future, and probably well beyond that. The people who care (those between 18-21 years old) have no money, don't vote cohesively, don't vote in large numbers, and have absolutely no organization to speak of. It's a non-issue and always will be... why do you think there was no uproar when it was passed? It's because those whom it effects are politically impotent.

Well, why don't you go show your congressman this very scientific poll. I'm sure that'll convince him you're right and they'll vote to lower the age or repeal the highway funding threat that keeps the law in place. And if you believe that one, i have a great bridge in brooklyn i'd like to sell you.

It's an exercise in futility. The "infinite wisdom" of the NS general forum users aside, the drinking age will remain at 21 for at least the forseeable future, and probably well beyond that. The people who care (those between 18-21 years old) have no money, don't vote cohesively, don't vote in large numbers, and have absolutely no organization to speak of. It's a non-issue and always will be... why do you think there was no uproar when it was passed? It's because those whom it effects are politically impotent.
dead on. the 18-21 voting bloc could be one of the most powerful. However, a lack of money makes it impossible to lobby for our causes, and general voting apathy makes our voices unheard. One of the biggest problems is that many of the people of that age are at college on election day, and although there are voting centers on many campuses, we are not residents of the state we are living in, and therefore can't vote. Absentee ballots are great, but don't really count unless there is a very close call.

None the less, I only mised this years election because they sent me my ballot the day AFTER election day. Real helpful:rolleyes:

States can change the age to whatever they want, but will lose highway funding, which citizens are unwilling to pay for twice (they would still be charged by the feds, and again by the state).
At one point, the drinking age in CT was 21, in NY 18. The road to NY (the First Turn Bar) had one of the highest death rates because CT would flock to that bar every friday and saturday, then have to drive all the way home. Sad state of affairs, and a good argument for at the very least a cohesive national drinking age. (Note that in NY, the crashes were comparable to that once the age became 21, so this isn't a good argument for the 21 drinking age)

Make alcohol legal, and raise the driving age up to 21. That's what I'd like to see happen. Teenagers really have no place behind the wheel, in my opinion.

But as my opinion matters little, I'll shut up. XP

-Asylum Nova

THe main problem with it is that America is a nation of consumers. When we see something, we want as much as possible. That's why Europeans can have a lower drinking age -- it's, for lack of a better term, part of their culture, and they (overall, I apologize for generalizing like I am doing) do it in moderation.

Make alcohol legal, and raise the driving age up to 21. That's what I'd like to see happen. Teenagers really have no place behind the wheel, in my opinion.

But as my opinion matters little, I'll shut up. XP

-Asylum Nova

Interesting idea. I'd be interested to see what happened.

THe main problem with it is that America is a nation of consumers. When we see something, we want as much as possible. That's why Europeans can have a lower drinking age -- it's, for lack of a better term, part of their culture, and they (overall, I apologize for generalizing like I am doing) do it in moderation.
well, its also a matter of how you teach kids to view alcohol. Italians have a glass of wine with dinner every night. Alcohol is a drink like soda or juice.

Americans teach it to be something that people only use to get drunk. It becomes a thing of intreague. Honestly, I think programs like DARE (which is shown to increase drug use) are the root of the problem. Teach responsibility, and you will see the effects. Teach fear, and you will have people who want to try it.

Make alcohol legal, and raise the driving age up to 21. That's what I'd like to see happen. Teenagers really have no place behind the wheel, in my opinion.

But as my opinion matters little, I'll shut up. XP

-Asylum Nova

I heard that studies have shown, that people who started driving early are better drivers. It also helps when you are required to have an experienced co-driver for a certain time.

Belgian beers are rank(hence why they are rarely sold outwith belgium

im not a fan of bubbly beers either so duvel scores points there but it takes like it was made with goats

What about Leffe, Kvak etc. etc.

I like to think of myself of a bit of an amateur beer expert. My research has been thorough, I can assure you!

Belgians make some of the best bottled beers in the world, and their dark beers are infinitely superior to German dark beers. However, as far as proper lagers are concerned, the best mass produced beer is without doubt Czech Budweiser Budvar.

When it comes to truly great lagers though, the Germans are near impossible to beat.

However, beer is a nancy drink, and Scotch whisky is the only real spirit.

Thanks for listening.

I think if you are man enough to go die for your country, or woman enough to flash your tits, you aught to be able to drink a damned beer now and then.

I know the two comparisons were not remotely close, but the point is, once you are an adult, you should have all the rights of an adult.

Concerning beer:
Actually, [insert local brewed beer here] is the best. There are some beers like Freiberger (brewed in Dresden, Germany), Kilkenny (Ireland, if I'm not mistaken by the colour ;)), Staropramen (Czech), Belgian trappist-beers, some like Becks, Radeberger, Baltika beer from Russia, my GF likes dark Köstritzer or Neuzeller Schwarzer Abt (dark with added sugar, just won a 12 years lawsuit about beeing allowed to call his brew a Bier in Germany despite the added sugar) ... taste differs.
Once a year in Berlin is the so called "Grüne Woche", where many nations present their food and drinks. Look for your pendant of such a week of gluttony.
But that is mass production. Local brewed beers which never reach any border are the best choice if you want to be particular. You just have to find the right one. Testing them can be fun ;)


Back to the Laws:
Some people here argue "I can get the booze nevertheless, the law is useless". And somebody else pointed out, that if it were really useless, nobody would complain.
Again, the law does not help against irresponsible behaviour of >=[ageline] nor is it intended to. (Just look what happend to poor Harry in the 'Goblet of Fire' just because an adult submitted him although he was underage. Beaten, bruised and nearly killed.) If in your city most or many people are irresponsible, then it makes the law neither totally inefficent nor them heros.
The last few years we had a little problem in Germany with "alcopops", sweetened liquor which was bought by minors despite the laws. Yes, it arose to a bigger problem, these drinks are heavy an alcohol. So our government resolved to force higher prices for these drinks AND checked bars and stores for selling to underage more thourough ... et voíla ... our health minister was satisfied to be able to announce, that underage drinking lessened considerably in the last year. Laws are effective, you just have to watch them.
I do not know about your city, but the last american student which practiced his disgusting version of binge drinking in our student club (8 different kinds of beer, 1 euro the bottle ;) ) assured me, he couldn't do this often at home ... something around Washington IL.

I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

If you are responsible enough to vote, drive, get married, get divorced, live on your own, sue and be sued, be tried as an adult, You should be allowed to have the choice to drink or not to drink alcohol.

Agreed. That, and (speaking as a Brit), a lower drinking age might lead to a rather more pleasantly laid-back attitude towards booze- a lower drinking age makes alcohol less of a big deal, which discourages drinking vast amounts of booze for the sake of doing so (as opposed to productive reasons, like convincing yourself that everyone surrounding you are incredibly witty conversationalists).

That, and a lower drinking age might also prevent Americans from going abroad and making complete fools of themselves by being complete lightweights.

Makes a lot of sense. Who wouldn't want a drunk 18 year-old drving crazy all over the road to get to the polls where he would vote based not on anything important or intelligent but rather whatever the alcohol was making him think. I can see it now...

18-year-old: Hey dudes, I'm 18 now, I'm gonna go get me some beer.
At the store: Hey man, I'm buyin' beer.
*opens bottle, guzzles down
18-year-old: Dudes (slurred), now I'm gonna go and vote.
*Can't figure out how to use key, so he smashes the window in with his fists.
18-year-old: Dude, shit, that hurt.
*Drives out of parking lot, smashing the fender of a near-by car and knocking over an old lady while he's at it.
Old lady: Oh, my back! Why you little punk.
18-year-old: Hey, watch where you're goin', biotch.
*He proceeds to swerve left & right on the road on the way to the voting office, causing a bus full of kindgarteners to go off-road and tip over. 27 were killed.
*When he gets to the voting office, he crahses throuhg the wall and runs of 6 voters. Climbing out of the cars borken windshield, he says
18-year-old: Ah, dude, this ain't the voting place...
*As he vomits in the face of a security guard who was coming to help the little boy stuck under his tire.

Except that i dont know any Australian who would suffer that effect off one beer... Also it is against the law for a Driver on their P's to have any Alcohol in their system when driving (0.05 for the rest of us), P's last for three years from when you get them, not counting any extensions due to speeding etc... so the first age when you can legally have any alcohol in your system and drive is 21., 3 years after being able to drive on your own, and 5-6 years after being able to first drive.

Second voting here requires a clue as we have proportional voting, (also its compulsory) If you dont fill in the ballot correctly then it is null, and it isnt too hard to make a mistake...