NationStates Jolt Archive

From http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html :
The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 requires that by January 1, 2008, travelers to and from the Caribbean, Bermuda, Panama, Mexico and Canada have a passport or other secure, accepted document to enter or re-enter the United States. In order to facilitate the implementation of this requirement, the Administration is proposing to complete it in phases following a proposed timeline, which will be published in the Federal Register in the near future.
I live in Michigan and travel across the American-Canadian border is not a rare occurrence here. Some people work and go to school across the border. Other people may want to travel across the borders to go camping or go to the casinos or whatever. Having people pay X dollars to get a passport (I saw somewhere $70 but not sure) seems rather... well economically damaging.
I know it is in the name of national security but having this will impact travel and trade negatively. Why would a family of four go out and get passports just to spend a weekend in Canada? What about spending a day at the casinos on either side of the border?

What does everyone else think about having passports to travel to/from Caribbean, Bermuda, Panama, Mexico and Canada?
Do you think this a good thing in the eyes of national security even with the economical consequences this may have?

The US sovereign gov... has every right to require Documents...

The US sovereign gov... has every right to require Documents...
That does not mean it is the right/smart decision (not saying it is not ... just saying)

Do you think this a good thing in the eyes of national security even with the economical consequences this may have?
You're seriously overestimating the economic consequences. Passports are required in many countries, yet people still move from one place to another.

It's more of a matter of weakening border controls, such that people can get over quicker. It's what a Free Trade Agreement is all about, but so far the US has shown a disappointing hang to xenophobia when it comes to border protection...

You're seriously overestimating the economic consequences. Passports are required in many countries, yet people still move from one place to another.

It's more of a matter of weakening border controls, such that people can get over quicker. It's what a Free Trade Agreement is all about, but so far the US has shown a disappointing hang to xenophobia when it comes to border protection...
Well right now all we have to show is a birth certificate and that is all. I do not see the need to require passports to get across. I can see why passports might be useful, but in my mind I have always viewed Canada as a close 'sister' country where such formalities of passports were unneeded.

I don't think its such a big deal. Maybe a passport is expensive, but its like a yearly cost at most I think, and if they also accept "other secure, accepted documents" it may be something as simple as a state issued ID card, or other less expensive ID

I know that in Las Vegas they require you to get certified before getting a job, food handler cards run like $30 I think, and a background check runs like $70 I think, and there are some others, so if you work in a casino food vending place, you have to pay $100+ just to get considered for it, and both of those have to be renewed every year, so I doubt it will have too much of an econ effect to require a passport.

Well right now all we have to show is a birth certificate and that is all. I do not see the need to require passports to get across. I can see why passports might be useful, but in my mind I have always viewed Canada as a close 'sister' country where such formalities of passports were unneeded.
In that case you wouldn't even need a birth certificate.

I remember when I was little and we'd go to Austria for holidays it'd take an hour or something to get across the border.
These days you simply drive across. There are no more crossings, there's only a sign now. Works much better and is good for the economy.

So if you really wanted to do the best by the economy, you'd open all your borders 100%, both to Canada and to Mexico.

The interesting thing to notice is that this will have an impact at all because passports are apparently not a commonly owned document by USians.

Personally, I think it's strange, but, then again, I couldn't envision what it must be like to live a life where international travel is so rare.

Thats what I mean. The only people in my closer family that has a passport is my aunt and uncle and their children because they go on boat trips all over the great lakes.

The only people in my closer family that has a passport is my aunt and uncle and their children

Psst: That's not a good thing.

No biggie? Travelling from Europe to USA is a pain as it is now... there's going to be an additional cavity search? Grand. Bio-passports and whatnot next. Great. I can't wait... in line for 4 more hours.

As another american, I have to say having passports is kind of useless, unless your a businessman who travels often. The rest of us citizens have no desire to travel further than a "nicer" destination in the US.

I was born and raised in New York, now living in California... and my family and I would travel to Florida, California, Hawaii. I've gone once to canada with my friends durring college and had to show nothing but my drivers license and birth certificate.

Im not sure if it would have such a great impact on the economy, Maybe for the boardering states it would be a bit harsh, but for a majority of the US i dont think it would be such a big deal.

The rest of us citizens have no desire to travel further than a "nicer" destination in the US.
Canada is a < 1 hour drive from here to a nicer destination :p :)

The rest of us citizens have no desire to travel further than a "nicer" destination in the US.

That's actually sad on so many levels.

Pfft, get a 10 year passport and quit your whining.

im not saying canada isnt beautiful. Im simply stating that a majority of the US citizens would rather not go through the hassle of getting passports and the such when our county is big enough, and so diverse, that we simply board a plane for a few hours and land in a totally different surrounding.

I enjoyed canada a lot, very beautiful and nice experience. I actually went to the carribean and mexico aswell. I might be going on another cruise soon into the carribean too.

simply, I dont think its such a bad thing for us as citizens or the economy that we must get passports to travel to such countries. Wed have to do it for any other country.

Whether it harms our "freedom," or if it protects our coountry from possible "intruders" or illegals or whatever... thats another story.


EDIT: I shouldnt say "desire" because we do desire to go to other countries... it just comes to money and time, way more affordable to go to one of the states than outside the country. not easy for us middle-class to take a plane to europe for a week, let alone a couple days.

There is a penninsula of Washington state where children ride a school bus into Canada and then back into the US to go to school....everyday. Will they need to show their passports for each entry?

3:36 post
It's just a passport. It's not so much a hassle as you seem to think. It's like 'yes, this is me, now let me through'.

I live right on the mouth of Lake Erie, so I can see Canada from my town. Seems a bit silly to need a passport for such a friendly country, but I got one to go to Europe, so it doesn't bug me. They're only like $80 or so and they last for 10 years or something like that. When I got back from Europe, customs was a joke! They glanced at my passport and just let me in. Never bothered to make sure I didn't lie on my claims or anything. Going to Italy was worse. They just stamped the thing without looking at me. :P

Thinking about it more, everyone and their mother owns a boat around here. People can cross U.S. and Canadian waters freely and stuff. I seriously doubt they can police all of the Great Lakes. I mean, my family used to go into Canadian waters all the time and land there. *cough*thenwesmuggledbackillegalsubstances*cough*

There is a penninsula of Washington state where children ride a school bus into Canada and then back into the US to go to school....everyday. Will they need to show their passports for each entry?
Thats what I think the problem is. I can understand everyones responses about how we need passports to every other country.
But Canada is different. Some people go to Canada on a daily basis because its borders are intertwined with ours. Like you said there are cities build on the borders between the countries. Having passports in such cases makes no sense what-so-ever.
How can it increase security when there are miles of unprotected borders?

*snrk*

I got a passport as soon as I got a job. Who knows when the fancy might take me to Paris for the weekend?

And really -- it's embarassing to see how provincial some of my fellow countrymen seem.

I have no problem with this. I always had my passport anyway, travelling THROUGH the US...travelling TO the US is not much different. It IS a different country after all. In my husband's case, it hopefully means he won't be accidentally deported to Mexico if some idiot thinks he's an 'illegal'.

I have no problem with this. I always had my passport anyway, travelling THROUGH the US...travelling TO the US is not much different. It IS a different country after all. In my husband's case, it hopefully means he won't be accidentally deported to Mexico if some idiot thinks he's an 'illegal'.

Seriously. Almost everyone here has a passport. Granted, we need them to function, but it's really not that big of a deal at all.

so far the US has shown a disappointing hang to xenophobia when it comes to border protection...

A Mexican citizen illegally transversing American borders has an overwhelming 90% chance of not being apprehended, and if he is, an 80% chance of being released into the US within a day of his arrest. In fact, by the year 2050, the number of latino Americans will have multiplied by six times. This, despite the fact that it would be excruciatingly simple for a terrorist to smuggle a dirty bomb via the Mexican border. Besides, as a "German living in Australia," you are completley unqualified to casually dismiss Americans as xenophobic. I know you Europeans just love to accept whatever your media feeds you about America, but I assure you, we are hardly what one would call xenophobic.

A Mexican citizen illegally transversing American borders has an overwhelming 90% chance of not being apprehended, and if he is, an 80% chance of being released into the US within a day of his arrest. In fact, by the year 2050, the number of latino Americans will have multiplied by six times. This, despite the fact that it would be excruciatingly simple for a terrorist to smuggle a dirty bomb via the Mexican border.
Is that a fact/are those the facts!? Whoa. It's surprising you don't have anti-Mexican vigilante posses around the border to shoot those dirty rats while they are crawling down to US.

Personaly I dont really care, if the people whom "The People" have elected, whom have chosen, whom ever fer whatever mindless, meaningfull task that many people are given many a time to decide upon whats good for the american public feel that its necissary, then as a citizen i say good fer you, after all it is the majority of the citizens decisions who put these people who wish to change whatever in charge correct?

Now if its really right or wrong, who is to really say, there are so many arguments that can be made on this point, it is true that people now travel freely between the canadian border, but are still required to display at least to forms of official ID(so it would be limiting the pieces of paper you gotta show from two to one just about, oooo such a big change, anyways). but what about the majority of americans that dont make this trip, whom probably purchase a passport if there planning on travaling outta the states anyways. If its what the elected officials see necissary then its necissary. other then that from what i see, if the government wants to do it, it will, the best you can probably do about it is probably wright a nasty letter about it to your politician, er wright up a petition, other then that what stop going to canada? its not like you couldnt find similiar landscapes here in the good Ol US of A. Ive been recently told about a few Economic problems between the US and canada recently anywho, and theres talk of economic sanctions er sumthin like that, ill have to check back with my canadian friends.

Personaly I dont really care, if the people whom "The People" have elected, whom have chosen, whom ever fer whatever mindless, meaningfull task that many people are given many a time to decide upon whats good for the american public feel that its necissary, then as a citizen i say good fer you, after all it is the majority of the citizens decisions who put these people who wish to change whatever in charge correct?

Is that what democracy is to you then? Electing representatives that may or may not do as they say? Its the same as electing presidents. Who is the lesser evil: who seems best to look like they will represent our interests? They do not reflect our positions for each and every decision made. But we do not have a choice in the matter since Direct Democracy is not applied.

Now if its really right or wrong, who is to really say, there are so many arguments that can be made on this point, it is true that people now travel freely between the canadian border, but are still required to display at least to forms of official ID(so it would be limiting the pieces of paper you gotta show from two to one just about, oooo such a big change, anyways). but what about the majority of americans that dont make this trip, whom probably purchase a passport if there planning on travaling outta the states anyways. If its what the elected officials see necissary then its necissary. other then that from what i see, if the government wants to do it, it will, the best you can probably do about it is probably wright a nasty letter about it to your politician, er wright up a petition, other then that what stop going to canada? its not like you couldnt find similiar landscapes here in the good Ol US of A. Ive been recently told about a few Economic problems between the US and canada recently anywho, and theres talk of economic sanctions er sumthin like that, ill have to check back with my canadian friends.

Its not just that a person has to show a different document... its the fact that we will have to pay for that document and then wait X amount of weeks to get it. Now sure, $97 (looked it up on site), sure... thats easy. But all it is is an extra tax. We do not have to pay it now, we just show a birth certificate. But in the future that will change. It does not actually increase security even though it is done in that guise. We will just be paying an extra fee to do something that we can do now for free. And for no obvious reason, regardless of the fact that Canada is another country.

People will do it because it is a requirement to cross even if they see no reason for it. This should not be seen as correct.

As another american, I have to say having passports is kind of useless, unless your a businessman who travels often. The rest of us citizens have no desire to travel further than a "nicer" destination in the US.
That is so sad. I know the US is a big and varied country, but to go through life without ever being exposed to a different culture is so limiting : a bit like eating the same thing at every meal.

It's also very worrying that the people who elect the most powerful man on Earth have such limited experience of the rest of the World over which they exercise such power and influence.

I know you Europeans just love to accept whatever your media feeds you about America, but I assure you, we are hardly what one would call xenophobic.
I think they main problem isn't xenophobia, but lack of knowledge and understanding. I was in Texas a few months ago, and got into a taxi. The driver started chatting, told me he Morroccan, and asked where I was from. When I said England, his response was "So at least you'll know where Morocco is, unlike most of the people I meet round here!".

Well when you have a national debt as the US does Money oes become a factor. I would, personaly, like to see this debt be paid off or evaporate er sumthing of the matter, as i siad if its right or not, is up to debate, but is settled by the Government. As far as my view on democrocy, if we had a true democracy as i see it then or elected officials would work free of charge, much like the original democracy, and be in it for the general good of the people, as for what i stated, thats more or Less How things are. Theres alot of this, skewed vision as i see it, on how the American democracy is, But it is how it is. The officials, senators congress men, and president are all elected offa what the people see in them. If thats not how you vote, then please do Tell what you do use to decide if person B is better then C er vice versa, or is it that you dont vote. Either way the things are the way they are and there is little to nothing a person or citizen can do to change this, there are a few things that do come to mind that could possibly do the trick though. We could allways have another civil war, and hope our side wins, but then again that didnt work with the last one. We could utalize our right as citizens to oust all the people in office that have offended us, but then again that requires a good sound legit reasoning behind it and a good fallowing of people who agree, and the last thing i think you can really do to change things, is next elction, vote the people you dont like outta office.

Other then that what else can I say? Thats how things go, er work, things dont just change becuase 1 or two people think it should they hcnage becuase Many people think they should...its like that saying "one person can make a diffrence" i dont know about any of you other people out there, but i dont think i can think of a single instance where exactly just 1 person ever made much of a diffrence in anything. America has become such a ME ME ME, I I I country, what ever happend to US, the PEOPLE, the masses. The united states isnt founded on the Ideas of a single individual but a group of individuals, now im sure you could find a ton of people who agree with you on this Reverse Gravity, but id put my money on the masses going with the Government on this one.

*edit* i as an american agree that there is a large gap in our knowledge of other cultures, and at the same time disagree becuase of the whole meling pot thing w got goin on....as fer the US' influence on the rest of the world, i think theres enough of it out there as it is, and id probably think it would be better if the government kind Butted out of the rest of the worlds buisness, though thats just me....and i can see the good and bad from that jsut sayin.

Reverse Gravity, I'm from Michigan. Having a passport to go to another country, yes even Canada, is totally alright. And I have to drive farther than you do, 8 hours-ish. Now, it may be annoying at first, but just live with it. Now let me guess where you live: *censor, personal information possibly shared with possibly insaine people who could possibly, in a drunken bloodlust, adorn themselves in deer skins, infiltrate behind the Michigan border via Ohio, and snipe you until you are out of human sap*

I frequently go to New York, via Canada (better drive, not going through Ohio and all), and its generally a bad practice to be in another country without a passport anyhow. Just in case something really terrible happens. I recently went from Finland to Sweden, and although I technically didn't get checked or stamped (nothing to claim), I brought it along just in case.

A Mexican citizen illegally transversing American borders has an overwhelming 90% chance of not being apprehended, and if he is, an 80% chance of being released into the US within a day of his arrest. In fact, by the year 2050, the number of latino Americans will have multiplied by six times.
And does that come from the US Vigilante Border Guard's website?

This, despite the fact that it would be excruciatingly simple for a terrorist to smuggle a dirty bomb via the Mexican border.
Yes, because the Mexicans are really incapable of keeping a country for themselves...:rolleyes:

Besides, as a "German living in Australia," you are completley unqualified to casually dismiss Americans as xenophobic.
Oooh, now come the personals.

I know you Europeans just love to accept whatever your media feeds you about America, but I assure you, we are hardly what one would call xenophobic.
Well, let's just say that the idea that
a) a bunch of people would live near the border in trailers with guns and try and stop people from doing the same that their own parents or grandparents did,
b) NAFTA obviously doesn't include the free movement of persons (a measure that, if not instigated by, was at least heartily supported by the US Government) and
c) Americans on this very forum have told me that they'd like to throw everyone who has to do with illegal immigrants (not "aliens" - they're real people) in jail
I think I have gained a fairly good understanding of what America thinks of its Southern Border. And xenophobia is a good way of describing it.

I personally don't see any problem with it.

Ok so that covers th southern border? What about the other immagrents that come to the united states, like from asia, and other countries?

other then that this is getting kinda off topic, so some americans are "xenophobic" some arnt ok whatever, we get it.

How is requiring american citizens, to have a passport to get to another country or back into the united states diffrent from other countries, isnt that about the same way many other countries round the world have it set up, If ya dont have your papers you cant get around? how is it totally diffrent from that? and does that make those other nations "xenophobic" as well? yes it may be true that some americans are "xenophobic" but id venture to say that a view like that would be considerd a stereotype. Ited be like say a person saying that "All germans from the 30's - 40's where Nazis" at least thats how I sees it, either way i dont think it has much baring on the topic at hand "if Its right or wrong to require documentation, to exit or return to your country of origin."

You're seriously overestimating the economic consequences. Passports are required in many countries, yet people still move from one place to another.

It's more of a matter of weakening border controls, such that people can get over quicker. It's what a Free Trade Agreement is all about, but so far the US has shown a disappointing hang to xenophobia when it comes to border protection...
You really love to accuse people of shit, don't you? How the fuck is it Xenophobia to require documentation to enter the country?

Xenephobia would mean not letting people in. We are not scared of foreigners, we just don't want fucking criminals coming into our country.

I think you just like to talk shit, personally, and I'd say it was getting annoying if it wasn't so amusing to picture you shaking your little fist at the U.S. flag.

Well right now all we have to show is a birth certificate and that is all. I do not see the need to require passports to get across. I can see why passports might be useful, but in my mind I have always viewed Canada as a close 'sister' country where such formalities of passports were unneeded.
Well, if Canada had any sense of responsibility about who they let into their country, it wouldn't be such a problem?

That's actually sad on so many levels.
What exactly is so great about other countries besides the U.S. that we are missing out on if we don't travel to them? We have pretty much everything you need in the U.S. Forests, deserts, mountains, wetlands, big cities, small towns, beaches (salt water and fresh water) natural wonders (grand canyon, yosemite,etc.) Just what exactly are we missing?

You really love to accuse people of shit, don't you? How the fuck is it Xenophobia to require documentation to enter the country?
Again you're misunderstanding.
Go and ask Americans whether or not they'd want an open border with Canada and Mexico, as is practiced in the EU. Chances are that most of them wouldn't want it - despite the free movement of people really being essentially for real "free trade". Americans seem to have a problem with Mexicans crossing their border - and that despite everything the Mexican community has done for them. I cannot see how the word "xenophobia" would be inappropriate to describe it.
That's what I meant - I seriously couldn't give a shit whether you hold documents or not.

Xenephobia would mean not letting people in. We are not scared of foreigners, we just don't want fucking criminals coming into our country.
And what about non-criminals? If their only crime is to break a law that is only there to keep criminals out...well it's a circular argument, isn't it.

I think you just like to talk shit, personally, and I'd say it was getting annoying if it wasn't so amusing to picture you shaking your little fist at the U.S. flag.
You're free to think as you please, but I assure you that it's better for your blood pressure not to. :p

Just what exactly are we missing?
Other people.

Well, if Canada had any sense of responsibility about who they let into their country, it wouldn't be such a problem?
I do not see a problem with who Canada lets in/out of their country. It is not like the southern borders where people emigrate illegally to take jobs and such.

Again you're misunderstanding.
Go and ask Americans whether or not they'd want an open border with Canada and Mexico, as is practiced in the EU. Chances are that most of them wouldn't want it - despite the free movement of people really being essentially for real "free trade". Americans seem to have a problem with Mexicans crossing their border - and that despite everything the Mexican community has done for them. I cannot see how the word "xenophobia" would be inappropriate to describe it.
That's what I meant - I seriously couldn't give a shit whether you hold documents or not.
Well that the point, right now our borders with Canada ARE open. Having required passports in a way makes the crossing process tighter.

Mexico is another story...

You really love to accuse people of shit, don't you? How the fuck is it Xenophobia to require documentation to enter the country?

Xenephobia would mean not letting people in. We are not scared of foreigners, we just don't want fucking criminals coming into our country.

I think you just like to talk shit, personally, and I'd say it was getting annoying if it wasn't so amusing to picture you shaking your little fist at the U.S. flag.

So, in what way is asking for a passport the equivalent of not letting any criminals in? As far as I know, wanted criminals don't hand over their passports to the police right after committing a crime. Nor would they do that while plotting a crime.
I had a passport for all my life and I don't really see a problem with having one, but I do understand that putting harsher controls in place is a bit of an international affront to the countries concerned. I just don't see in what way passport controls would stop criminals?

Well, if Canada had any sense of responsibility about who they let into their country, it wouldn't be such a problem?
How many terrorist attacks have there been in Canada? None of any significance that I know of - they're obviously doing something right.

Other people.
What? We have 290 million people in the U.S. I'm not sure what your point is.

Again you're misunderstanding.
Go and ask Americans whether or not they'd want an open border with Canada and Mexico, as is practiced in the EU. Chances are that most of them wouldn't want it - despite the free movement of people really being essentially for real "free trade". Americans seem to have a problem with Mexicans crossing their border - and that despite everything the Mexican community has done for them. I cannot see how the word "xenophobia" would be inappropriate to describe it.
That's what I meant - I seriously couldn't give a shit whether you hold documents or not.


And what about non-criminals? If their only crime is to break a law that is only there to keep criminals out...well it's a circular argument, isn't it.


You're free to think as you please, but I assure you that it's better for your blood pressure not to. :p
Show me proof that Americans don't like Mexicans. Most people are in favor of allowing immigration. We just aren't going to open up our borders freely to countries who will let ANYONE in. It's called common sense. Whats the point of locking your door if you have a door going into the next apartment, and they leave their doors wide open?

What? We have 290 million people in the U.S. I'm not sure what your point is.
Other cultures, not just the watered down/bastardized versions you find in the various little italies, chinatowns, etc.

Other cultures, not just the watered down/bastardized versions you find in the various little italies, chinatowns, etc.
Again, I don't get your point. What is wrong with liking my own culture? And what makes other cultures SO much better that I'm missing out on it by not visiting?

im not saying canada isnt beautiful. Im simply stating that a majority of the US citizens would rather not go through the hassle of getting passports and the such when our county is big enough, and so diverse, that we simply board a plane for a few hours and land in a totally different surrounding.
Different natural surroundings, but essentially the same culture, same media, same stores, same language, and hardly a building in sight over 1 (or, at most 2) hundred years old.

You don't know what you're missing until you see it, but, believe me, you're missing it!

Different natural surroundings, but essentially the same culture, same media, same stores, same language, and hardly a building in sight over 1 (or, at most 2) hundred years old.

You don't know what you're missing until you see it, but, believe me, you're missing it!
What the hell is so great about old buildings? Or new buildings for that matter? That doesn't impress me as much as a Giant Sequoia, or the Grand Canyon, or even Niagara Falls.

And again, why the claim that the culture over there is better? I'm not saying ours is better, but I don't see how it is worse.

Different natural surroundings, but essentially the same culture, same media, same stores, same language, and hardly a building in sight over 1 (or, at most 2) hundred years old.

You don't know what you're missing until you see it, but, believe me, you're missing it!
Forking out $400 for a family of four to go to another country does not seem all that practical as an incentive to travel anywhere outside the US. At least I dont have 100 extra bucks to go see Canada's different scenery... and thus will prevent me from doing so until I have a required reason to travel elsewhere (job or whatever).

Again, I don't get your point. What is wrong with liking my own culture?
There's nothing wrong with liking your own culture
And what makes other cultures SO much better that I'm missing out on it by not visiting?
Well, you haven't visited them so you have no way of knowing, now do you? And its not that they are necesarily (sp?) better, its a broadening experience; although you never know, you might find that there is some culture that you prefer to your own.

Again, I don't get your point. What is wrong with liking my own culture? And what makes other cultures SO much better that I'm missing out on it by not visiting?

Nobody's saying any culture is better than another one. But every culture is different and, when studied and visited, will give you the ability to view everything for an additional angle. It's not about deciding which is best, it's about trying to understand how the world - and human beings - work.

Learning a different language will allow you insights into different ways of thinking.
Learning about different cultures might spare you the trouble of re-inventing the wheel, if somebody else already came up with the idea.

although you never know, you might find that there is some culture that you prefer to your own.

That's one of the few risks you take when leaving your own culture for a minute :D

Again, I don't get your point. What is wrong with liking my own culture? And what makes other cultures SO much better that I'm missing out on it by not visiting?
It's not a question of being better : all cultures have their good and bad sides. It's a question of being different. It's enlightening, and gives a new perspective on one's own culture too.

Again, I don't get your point. What is wrong with liking my own culture? And what makes other cultures SO much better that I'm missing out on it by not visiting?

I like my own culture. Australians (assuming that they can find it :p ) like their own culture as well. As do most people. But the world is a varied and interesting place. Try it, it's fun!

I read on another thread that your wife is going to join the USAAF? You'd better get used to a bit of travel :D

What the hell is so great about old buildings? Or new buildings for that matter? That doesn't impress me as much as a Giant Sequoia, or the Grand Canyon, or even Niagara Falls.
Ah - but if you stay in America, you'll never get to see Uluru, or the Himalaya, or the Nile. There are lots of amazing feats of nature around the globe. Seeing them on TV is nothing compared to actually seeing them for yourself.

There's nothing inherently good in old buildings, but it is surely interesting to actually get to see what other people came up with.

---

Speaking an an Australian, I'm somewhat mystified that the majority of Americans apparently don't have passports. Most Aussies have one. We travel around the world, seeing different things. Indeed, after September 11, we were among the few nationalities to continue travelling internationally with only slight decreases in passenger numbers.
We've got a lot of country - almost the same as the US, minus Alaska and Hawaii. But that doesn't stop us seeing what other people are like, what other countries are like.

I like my own culture. Australians (assuming that they can find it :p ) like their own culture as well. As do most people. But the world is a varied and interesting place. Try it, it's fun!

I read on another thread that your wife is going to join the USAAF? You'd better get used to a bit of travel :D
I don't have anything against it. I reaaly think it would be quite fun. I just take offense to some peoples sugggestions that I'm somehow a Xenophobe or an idiot because I don't yearn to backpack through Europe, or visit the Middle East.

Contrary to what people may think, I'm actually very leanred about other cultures. I just don't get all excited about it. There's enough fun things for me to do in America to last me 10 lifetimes.

Ah - but if you stay in America, you'll never get to see Uluru, or the Himalaya, or the Nile. There are lots of amazing feats of nature around the globe. Seeing them on TV is nothing compared to actually seeing them for yourself.

There's nothing inherently good in old buildings, but it is surely interesting to actually get to see what other people came up with.

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Speaking an an Australian, I'm somewhat mystified that the majority of Americans apparently don't have passports. Most Aussies have one. We travel around the world, seeing different things. Indeed, after September 11, we were among the few nationalities to continue travelling internationally with only slight decreases in passenger numbers.
We've got a lot of country - almost the same as the US, minus Alaska and Hawaii. But that doesn't stop us seeing what other people are like, what other countries are like.
I would love to see the Nile and tropical rainforests, but I haven't even seen Mount Rushmore, or The Redwood forests, or Old faithful yet. Basically, I want to see all of my own country before I travel overseas to see the rest of the world. Plus, it costs ALOT more to travel to India, or Egypt, than it does to travel to Yosemite for me! (did II mention I'm broke? :D )

Contrary to what people may think, I'm actually very leanred about other cultures. I just don't get all excited about it. There's enough fun things for me to do in America to last me 10 lifetimes.
Exactly why the passport thing won't effect too many people. America's big enough to keep most American's happy (not me, though). :p

More American's have passports that what people are saying here...I come from a fairly backwater area of the Mid-West and people I know have gone to Italy, India, China, Australia, Poland, Germany, and on and on and on. And then here I am, living in Finland. Or maybe, by town is not typical American behavior. Or maybe I happen to socialize with globe trotters. :confused:

Exactly why the passport thing won't effect too many people. America's big enough to keep most American's happy (not me, though). :p

More American's have passports that what people are saying here...I come from a fairly backwater area of the Mid-West and people I know have gone to Italy, India, China, Australia, Poland, Germany, and on and on and on. And then here I am, living in Finland. Or maybe, by town is not typical American behavior. Or maybe I happen to socialize with globe trotters. :confused:
Maybe it's the water? :D

Maybe it's the water? :D
Yup, its Lake Michigan alright. We should bottle that stuff, eh. :D

I think the US passport should be an RFID tag, and everyone should have one implanted if they are a US citizen.

I also believe that any visitor to the US should have an RFID tag implanted.

I think the US passport should be an RFID tag, and everyone should have one implanted if they are a US citizen.

I also believe that any visitor to the US should have an RFID tag implanted.
Can you explain why such measures should be required? Kinda a press against personal freedoms, ya think?

Other cultures, not just the watered down/bastardized versions you find in the various little italies, chinatowns, etc.

I wouldn't go that far. But you miss out on seeing for example the Great Wall of China, the pyramids (cultural heritage) and new types of food to experience and broaden your horizons. From my experience the food you get from resturants (e.g chinese, italian etc) in your home country is never as good as getting the food in its country of origin. For me the best thing about traveling is tryin out new food, but then I do like my food.

If you go to other countries and put some effort into getting to know the people then you get an insight into how they think and where their points of view are coming from. Though the internet has made it easier to do this without leaving the country I will admit.

I think it isn't really a big problem having a passport and needing it to go to other countries. In most of the EU all boarder control between members has been removed, though the UK has opted out of this. One reason the UK has opted out is because of illegal imagration and asylum as at the moment most of them arrive at the UK by passing through the rest of the EU. I bring up asylum because you are suppose to claim it as soon as you reach the first safe country (any member of the EU) but many don't.

So it is a trust thing between nations about how they deal with their boarders. My belief is that Canada is a quite reliable and trustworthy country so boader control between it can be relaxed. I do not know enough to comment on the Mexian boarder.

...Just what exactly are we missing?Nothing, do not worry about it...If you can afford it..Do travel...If you cant..Do not worry about it.What exactly is so great about other countries besides the U.S. that we are missing out on if we don't travel to them? ...It is nice to travel... trust me...But If you cant afford it...Do not worry about it.

I'm not sure what your point is.
Possibly just beyond your grasp.

And maybe if you had travelled to other places and seen other cultures you might understand.

Can you explain why such measures should be required? Kinda a press against personal freedoms, ya think?
Nope.

Can you explain why such measures should be required? Kinda a press against personal freedoms, ya think?
I'm all for RFID's. It would make a lot of transactions and activities much easier.

The only concern would be what kind of information is stored in it and who can access it. I don't think any information should be stored there except an ID number which could be checked against a database and some other feature, like retina scan or something, to completely verify your identity if necessary.

Perhaps the biggest concern about privacy would be the ability for someone to read your ID tag without your consent, and using that information for their own benefit or against you.

If a mechanism can be built in so that, I don't know, it tickles when read, or builds a log, or something like that, maybe that'd help.

I'm all for RFID's. It would make a lot of transactions and activities much easier.

The only concern would be what kind of information is stored in it and who can access it. I don't think any information should be stored there except an ID number which could be checked against a database and some other feature, like retina scan or something, to completely verify your identity if necessary.

Perhaps the biggest concern about privacy would be the ability for someone to read your ID tag without your consent, and using that information for their own benefit or against you.

If a mechanism can be built in so that, I don't know, it tickles when read, or builds a log, or something like that, maybe that'd help.

If you make it like those RFID tags that you use to buy gas at the gas pump, it will be extremely short range, and will only contain an ID number.

You might require a PIN number for transactions, but if you're walking through an identity scanner, or the police are using a handheld identity scanner, no PIN number is necessary (they aren't taking your money).

If you make it like those RFID tags that you use to buy gas at the gas pump, it will be extremely short range, and will only contain an ID number.

You might require a PIN number for transactions, but if you're walking through an identity scanner, or the police are using a handheld identity scanner, no PIN number is necessary (they aren't taking your money).

The ID-number is more I want to tell anybody. If I go into my shopping centre, I just don't want, that the supermarket can identify me as the same person by installing a (maybe illegal) scanner.

The german passport has thus a session-ID, which is randomized for every session. At least I hope so. I leave a big enough trail with my cellphone already, I'm not in the mood to be tracked down totally. It is called "privacy".