NationStates Jolt Archive


Work experiences with evil corporations

Plator
22-11-2005, 23:35
What are your experiences working for corporations.
I worked for this evil Canadian company called Minacs. They run call centres for the almost as evil OnStar. Here's a few facts about both companies:

Minacs
If you went to bathroom more then three times a day you had to get a note from your doctor. People were drinking bottles of water constantly because you were on the phone all day.
A seven month pregnant woman had to get a note from her doctor proving she was pregnant.
They told you to take lieu days and never gave them to you until the year was up and you lost them.
Their elevators were always dropping three floors free-fall. One lady was in one, got injured but was not allowed to call in sick the next day.
You never got approved for family events as a day off - including your own wedding.
Much, much more.

OnStar
Sells people minutes for a voice activated phone that doesn't work.
Commercials show car doors being opened but never show the five per cent (give or take) when it doesn't work and the customer has to wait two hours for road service.
If you don't cancel the free service and you have a credit card on file you're signed up automatically.
Much, much more.
Super-power
22-11-2005, 23:37
This is why I plan to go into small business - you're self-employed and the atmosphere is better.
Saint Albert
22-11-2005, 23:48
Target
I was hired at one of their job fairs where I gave them a tentative schedule, based on my upcoming summer class schedule. A few weeks later, one of my classes had to be rescheduled. At the orientation training (a ridiculous three-hour sacchrine morass of feel-good corporation propaganda and byzantine work rules and procedures), I told them my schedule has unexpectedly changed and I wanted to get it taken care of before they actually made a schedule. "No availability changes in the first 90 days," the HR manager lady said, and went on to the next person.
When I finally did convince them I had to change my schedule, and I gave them a new one, they continued to schedule me on the old availability, i.e., when I was in class and couldn't work. I gave them my schedule four more times before they finally figured it out. Even then, I still worked 25-35 hours a week when I asked for only 15-20.
The store was brand-new, and once we opened, we had to stay at night until every damn thing was in exact order. Some nights I was scheduled to work until close (10:30) and I worked until 11:30 or midnight. One night, we worked until 1:30. I worked seven-and-a-half hours without a lunch break.
I worked 38 hours one week and they only paid me for about 25. I protested, but they found no evidence that I had worked all those hours, so they just said, "Sorry," and sent me away.
On my application, I asked to work stocking and cashier. I worked the register twice, and most of the rest of the time, they had me in freakin' jewelry, something which I knew nothing of and was of no help to customers.
I was still on the schedule for a week after I quit.
Much, much more stuff that I don't care to remember.
Plator
23-11-2005, 19:01
Target
I was hired at one of their job fairs where I gave them a tentative schedule, based on my upcoming summer class schedule. A few weeks later, one of my classes had to be rescheduled. At the orientation training (a ridiculous three-hour sacchrine morass of feel-good corporation propaganda and byzantine work rules and procedures), I told them my schedule has unexpectedly changed and I wanted to get it taken care of before they actually made a schedule. "No availability changes in the first 90 days," the HR manager lady said, and went on to the next person.
When I finally did convince them I had to change my schedule, and I gave them a new one, they continued to schedule me on the old availability, i.e., when I was in class and couldn't work. I gave them my schedule four more times before they finally figured it out. Even then, I still worked 25-35 hours a week when I asked for only 15-20.
The store was brand-new, and once we opened, we had to stay at night until every damn thing was in exact order. Some nights I was scheduled to work until close (10:30) and I worked until 11:30 or midnight. One night, we worked until 1:30. I worked seven-and-a-half hours without a lunch break.
I worked 38 hours one week and they only paid me for about 25. I protested, but they found no evidence that I had worked all those hours, so they just said, "Sorry," and sent me away.
On my application, I asked to work stocking and cashier. I worked the register twice, and most of the rest of the time, they had me in freakin' jewelry, something which I knew nothing of and was of no help to customers.
I was still on the schedule for a week after I quit.
Much, much more stuff that I don't care to remember.
Sounds like Wal Mart to me!
Myrmidonisia
23-11-2005, 19:09
I wonder how much of the Target/Walmart horror stories is just due to plain old incompetence. It seems like bad and shortsighted practice to do some of the things that are reported. Scott Adams made a pretty good career by exaggerating management incompetence.

On the other hand, I've been careful enough to work for places that allow salaried workers the discretion that they deserve. These places don't have a turnover. That means less OJT for the new folks and a vast amount of corporate knowledge to draw from. The danger is keeping the "not invented here" syndrome from ruining the bottom line.
PasturePastry
23-11-2005, 19:21
Well, there are ways to deal with evil corporations, especially low level managers. The easiest way to frustrate them is when you are given instructions that don't sit well, say "I question your authority to make such a decision. Could you please provide a copy of the company policy that validates your decision?"

This will have them scurrying about for quite some time. If you do it often enough, they will stop asking you to do stuff.
Smunkeeville
23-11-2005, 19:29
Not that it was a really big corporation, but I worked in a corporate store of a franchise fast food company. We closed at 4am, I was working until close during day lights savings, when the day came to "fall back" an hour, we were told that the time clock would reset itself at 2am, my first question of course was
"Then we are working an extra hour right?"

"yeah, but we can't pay you for it"

"then we are leaving at 3am"

"no, you will get fired"

I called the labor board and got them in trouble :D

Two months later when I was getting married, they called me on my wedding day to come in and work a 16 hour shift, when I refused, they fired me. :rolleyes:
Northaustin
23-11-2005, 20:04
Yellow Freight
I was a non union, non management inside sales rep.
If I was one minute late or left one minute early, three times in a six month period, I couldn't get a pay raise. So I came in early and stayed late. I was written up (a write up=no raise) because I worked through lunch and didn't clock out for lunch. That's when things started to go down hill.
I noticed one pay day that I was being paid for 40 hours even though I was working around 45 hours. So I started to copy my timecard and corresponding pay stub until a sales manager noticed. NEW RULE: don't do that. But I did anyway until I was caught again and written up.
So they turned up the heat on me. All of my phone calls were recorded and reviewed by my manager. Even when I made a sale, she would find something I did wrong. I couldn't talk to my co workers without a sales manager asking what our conversation was about. And they still weren't paying me OT.
I went to Wage and Labor Dept. and gave them my photocopies. I also contacted several unions (I despise unions but I despised Yellow Freight more, they deserve each other.) Six weeks later, on a Thursday afternoon, I was let go.

About 6 months later a whole lot of my former co workers started showing up at the place I was working. They told the trainer that they knew me and started to tell her what a great guy I was and what had transpired after I had left.
First, the W&L Dept. had just concluded an investigation and was forcing Yellow Freight to pay all of the employees in the past four years back OT pay and they had fined them for each incident where they hadn't paid OT-in total it cost Yellow about $500,000 for fucking with me. (My check was for about $1500.)
Second, they had a vote and had decided to become union. Yellow Freight closed down the call center a month later. They came to work one Monday and the doors were locked with an explanation taped to the door-it was part of a "strategic realignment".
Plator
24-11-2005, 16:51
I wonder how much of the Target/Walmart horror stories is just due to plain old incompetence. It seems like bad and shortsighted practice to do some of the things that are reported. Scott Adams made a pretty good career by exaggerating management incompetence.

On the other hand, I've been careful enough to work for places that allow salaried workers the discretion that they deserve. These places don't have a turnover. That means less OJT for the new folks and a vast amount of corporate knowledge to draw from. The danger is keeping the "not invented here" syndrome from ruining the bottom line.
Wal Mart is one of the most evil of them all. A store in Quebec voted to unionize then Wal Mart closed it saying they had planned it all along. They're scum of the earth. Followed by McDonald's of course.
Vetalia
24-11-2005, 16:59
Wal Mart is one of the most evil of them all..

Unless you own their stock...
Eutrusca
24-11-2005, 17:00
This is why I plan to go into small business - you're self-employed and the atmosphere is better.
I have the utmost admiration for those who have the courage to go into business for themselves.

Go for it, dude! :D
Eutrusca
24-11-2005, 17:10
"Work experiences with evil corporations?"

Having worked for both General Electric and Exxon, I have more than a few stories to tell, but I'll share just this one with you:

General Electric has the reputation of being one of the best-managed organizations in the world, as well as being the largest in terms of employess ( although I don't know if this is still the case ). Yet even there, the occasional manager would be a true nutcase.

GE's Employee Relations is very professional, and very influential among top management, so what we said usually was what happened. When I was Personnal Manager for one GE Department ( which shall remain forever nameless! ), there was one Engineering Manager who had a rather sour reputation, to put it mildly. He was notorious for letting people know they had been fired by turning their desks upside down! Imagine ... you come into the office one morning to find your desk turned upside down as an indication that you had been fired!

Where this manager made his fatal mistake was in pulling this stunt while I was Personnel Manager. Heh!

One day, an engineer came into my office totally distraught, and informed me that he had found his desk upside down when he got to work that morning. I paid the manager in question a lil visit. :D

I said quite a number of things, most of them unprintable here, but the essence of what I told him was, "The engineer is reinstated. You will work with him to correct whatever problems he may have. If you do not, or if you ever, ever turn anyone's desk upside down again as long as I'm here, not only will your own desk be turned upside down, but you will be under it at the time!" :D
Myrmidonisia
24-11-2005, 17:15
Wal Mart is one of the most evil of them all. A store in Quebec voted to unionize then Wal Mart closed it saying they had planned it all along. They're scum of the earth. Followed by McDonald's of course.
I would do exactly the same thing, if I owned a chain of stores. People either want to work and be responsible for their own future, or they want to let some union do it for them. I wouldn't want the latter type working for me.
Jeruselem
24-11-2005, 17:29
One of my former employers decided to get rid of an entire department (of which the one I was in). They wanted it to be hush hush thing. Our biggest client at the time was the local state (actually territory) government.

The HR manager wanted this nice event to be nice and quiet. Except one of the managers in company leaked it by accident to a government employee, and well the news spread like wildfire in the government.

Well after that, I got a better job with more $$$ after some contract and temporary work.

:D
Silliopolous
24-11-2005, 17:30
I could tell all kinds of stories about how much of a total dick my boss is. Some of them almost unbelievable with the demands he's put on me.



And the sad part of it all is that I'm self-employed....

:D
Kryozerkia
24-11-2005, 17:33
I could provide some horror stories as well, but... Not yet.
Jeruselem
24-11-2005, 17:35
I could tell all kinds of stories about how much of a total dick my boss is. Some of them almost unbelievable with the demands he's put on me.



And the sad part of it all is that I'm self-employed....

:D

Fired yourself yet? :p
Silliopolous
24-11-2005, 17:39
Fired yourself yet? :p

Yep!


But then I came to the realization that I had fired the most indespensible member of the team and so I hired myself back with a raise and a stock bonus.... :p
Eutrusca
24-11-2005, 17:49
I could tell all kinds of stories about how much of a total dick my boss is. Some of them almost unbelievable with the demands he's put on me.

And the sad part of it all is that I'm self-employed....

:D
Confucious say, "Man at war with himself kill no enemies." :D
Sharkswithlaserpewpew
24-11-2005, 21:57
One reason to get people back in school, so you dont have to work in crapholes like that.

Stay in school kids.

That being said, I like low priced tennis shoes and crappy electronics, screw unions....
Plator
24-11-2005, 22:42
"Work experiences with evil corporations?"

Having worked for both General Electric and Exxon, I have more than a few stories to tell, but I'll share just this one with you:

General Electric has the reputation of being one of the best-managed organizations in the world, as well as being the largest in terms of employess ( although I don't know if this is still the case ). Yet even there, the occasional manager would be a true nutcase.

GE's Employee Relations is very professional, and very influential among top management, so what we said usually was what happened. When I was Personnal Manager for one GE Department ( which shall remain forever nameless! ), there was one Engineering Manager who had a rather sour reputation, to put it mildly. He was notorious for letting people know they had been fired by turning their desks upside down! Imagine ... you come into the office one morning to find your desk turned upside down as an indication that you had been fired!

Where this manager made his fatal mistake was in pulling this stunt while I was Personnel Manager. Heh!

One day, an engineer came into my office totally distraught, and informed me that he had found his desk upside down when he got to work that morning. I paid the manager in question a lil visit. :D

I said quite a number of things, most of them unprintable here, but the essence of what I told him was, "The engineer is reinstated. You will work with him to correct whatever problems he may have. If you do not, or if you ever, ever turn anyone's desk upside down again as long as I'm here, not only will your own desk be turned upside down, but you will be under it at the time!" :D
Now that IS bad. You should have made the dude sit on the legs of all the desks he turned over. Then he'd know what a pain in the ass he really was.
Plator
24-11-2005, 22:44
I would do exactly the same thing, if I owned a chain of stores. People either want to work and be responsible for their own future, or they want to let some union do it for them. I wouldn't want the latter type working for me.
Tell that to a professional football player if you ever bump into one.
Plator
24-11-2005, 22:46
I could tell all kinds of stories about how much of a total dick my boss is. Some of them almost unbelievable with the demands he's put on me.



And the sad part of it all is that I'm self-employed....

:D
You should start a union. After that we can start a thread on split personalities. HAHHAHAA :p
Plator
24-11-2005, 22:47
One reason to get people back in school, so you dont have to work in crapholes like that.

Stay in school kids.

That being said, I like low priced tennis shoes and crappy electronics, screw unions....
Those things are made by children in China and India who are chained to their machines making about one cent a day.
Plator
24-11-2005, 22:48
Confucious say, "Man at war with himself kill no enemies." :D
Confuscious say, "He who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly fingers".
The Doors Corporation
24-11-2005, 22:57
Confuscious say, "He who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly fingers".

My youth pastor used to quote that all the time. Alright evil corporations uh?


Papa Murphy's Take and Bake:
One manager who is 19, NO OTHER AUTHORITY. The owner drops by on pay days for a short time when only two people are there. The supervisors have oh so little authority, heck on of them has none, and both of them are 16 year old girls. One of the girls (she just so happens to be the "head supervisor" [the one with oh so little power]) is dating a guy that WORKS there (who so happens to be the best pizza maker). SOOO did I mention the Manager can be very childish at times? well he Is! So I work with a childish manager, an apathetic head supervisor, an overworked lesser supervisor (who can not really actually make anyone do anything), and a whole bunch of 16 year olds. Now sure this is not an instance of a corporation screwing me over or something, but I just felt like complaining heh.
The Goa uld
24-11-2005, 23:02
My youth pastor used to quote that all the time. Alright evil corporations uh?


Papa Murphy's Take and Bake:
One manager who is 19, NO OTHER AUTHORITY. The owner drops by on pay days for a short time when only two people are there. The supervisors have oh so little authority, heck on of them has none, and both of them are 16 year old girls. One of the girls (she just so happens to be the "head supervisor" [the one with oh so little power]) is dating a guy that WORKS there (who so happens to be the best pizza maker). SOOO did I mention the Manager can be very childish at times? well he Is! So I work with a childish manager, an apathetic head supervisor, an overworked lesser supervisor (who can not really actually make anyone do anything), and a whole bunch of 16 year olds. Now sure this is not an instance of a corporation screwing me over or something, but I just felt like complaining heh.
Reminds of Six Flags, except that the teen(how the hell can they make a 17 year old a supervisor?) supervisors there actually had the power to boss you around.
Sharkswithlaserpewpew
24-11-2005, 23:07
Those things are made by children in China and India who are chained to their machines making about one cent a day.

hopefully they use whips to eck out that extra 5% productivity, therefore making my shoes 10 cents cheaper
Myrmidonisia
24-11-2005, 23:17
Tell that to a professional football player if you ever bump into one.
I've said that to airline pilots. If I was on conversational terms with a NFL player or a MLB player, I'd tell them, too. The sports unions aren't quite the same as workplace unions, though. The stars aren't bound by the salaries negotiated in collective bargaining.

It's a fact, though, that once you surrender to a union, you give up all your individuality. That appeals to some, but to me, it's a terrible way to work. Just think, no merit raises, no bonuses, no stock options. Who would want to be content with a 2 or 3 percent a year raise? Not me.
Alchamania
24-11-2005, 23:20
I would do exactly the same thing, if I owned a chain of stores. People either want to work and be responsible for their own future, or they want to let some union do it for them. I wouldn't want the latter type working for me.
That either shows you know very little about what unions are actually for or they are entirely different in the US then here.
Here everyone in an industry is afforded protection by the industry union. One man cannot take on a corporation and win by himself. He doesn't have the resources or the numbers. Unions (here at least) ensure that an employer does not abuse their power and authority over an employee.

New industrial relation laws coming in will fuck all that up though. Yeah all current workers rights are protected by law... except the worker has also got the right to waive all these rights. Guess who's going to get the job the man who's willing to give up the most rights, not a promising sign with the government also wants to increase immigration of workers from thrid world nations.

Anyhoo... evil corporations, I've worked for one, now completely non-existant. They were always pulling shit. Fortunately we had strong unions in the country at the time and they never got away with it once I found out.

Fast food companies here prefer to hire 15-17 years olds because they only get paid a fraction of an adult wage and most of them don't know their rights. When an employee turns 18 they make conditions for them so uncomfortable -without technically breaking the law- they end up quitting.
Eruantalon
24-11-2005, 23:43
I would do exactly the same thing, if I owned a chain of stores. People either want to work and be responsible for their own future, or they want to let some union do it for them. I wouldn't want the latter type working for me.
Yeah, why would any company keep workers they can't exploit when they could get workers that they could exploit?

It's a fact, though, that once you surrender to a union, you give up all your individuality. That appeals to some, but to me, it's a terrible way to work. Just think, no merit raises, no bonuses, no stock options. Who would want to be content with a 2 or 3 percent a year raise? Not me.
Let's face it, if you're working for a giant corporation you give up all your individuality. If that's what you want, go the small business route.
Vetalia
24-11-2005, 23:49
Yeah, why would any company keep workers they can't exploit when they could get workers that they could exploit?

Nobody forces them to work at Wal Mart; they're not being exploited unless they are forced to work there, and in the developed world it is virtually impossible that you would be forced to work anywhere.

Wal Mart isn't required to unionize. If the workers don't like it, they can either leave and find another job or be fired by a store closure. I'd rather have lower prices and equal quality service than have to put up with high wage union employees who can't do the job any better than nonunion, and for more money at that.
Vetalia
24-11-2005, 23:51
Let's face it, if you're working for a giant corporation you give up all your individuality. If that's what you want, go the small business route.

Not if you're an excellent worker. In a corporation, you have to make yourself visible by being better than everyone else at your job. Otherwise, you have no individuality. In a union, you lose it regardless of the quality of your work.
Cabra West
24-11-2005, 23:53
Nobody forces them to work at Wal Mart; they're not being exploited unless they are forced to work there, and in the developed world it is virtually impossible that you would be forced to work anywhere.

Wal Mart isn't required to unionize. If the workers don't like it, they can either leave and find another job or be fired by a store closure. I'd rather have lower prices and equal quality service than have to put up with high wage union employees who can't do the job any better than nonunion, and for more money at that.

That's the case if you have low unemployment rates. If, however, your unemployment rates are high, people can easilybe forced to accept jobs that are effectivley exploiting them. Even if they have the nerve to refuse to work under such conditions, the government can force them into it by reducing or cancelling the unemployment benefits if any job offer is turned down...
Cabra West
24-11-2005, 23:54
Not if you're an excellent worker. In a corporation, you have to make yourself visible by being better than everyone else at your job. Otherwise, you have no individuality. In a union, you lose it regardless of the quality of your work.

In what way do you lose your individuality in a union?
Vetalia
24-11-2005, 23:56
That's the case if you have low unemployment rates. If, however, your unemployment rates are high, people can easilybe forced to accept jobs that are effectivley exploiting them. Even if they have the nerve to refuse to work under such conditions, the government can force them into it by reducing or cancelling the unemployment benefits if any job offer is turned down...

But in the US/Canada, unemployment is very low compared to even the rest of the OECD. There is no real reason to work under those conditions, since even the most underqualified have multiple opportunities.

Now, in countries where unemploymet is very high, like China, the situation is often different and other rules apply. In that case, unionization can be a good thing because there is not the competitive atmosphere present in more abundant labor markets.
Vetalia
24-11-2005, 23:58
In what way do you lose your individuality in a union?

In US unions (I don't know what differences there are in other nations), you have no say in what your dues are used for, and you have no real say on the political stance of the union. You also don't really have any say in what kind of benefits or wages you get, and you don't get to really choose whether or not to strike. Also, if your place of employment is unionized, you don't have the option to not join it.
Cabra West
25-11-2005, 00:00
But in the US/Canada, unemployment is very low compared to even the rest of the OECD. There is no real reason to work under those conditions, since even the most underqualified have multiple opportunities.

Now, in countries where unemploymet is very high, like China, the situation is often different and other rules apply. In that case, unionization can be a good thing because there is not the competitive atmosphere present in more abundant labor markets.

Well, in most European countries, it is rather high at the moment. And the solution some of them seem to be trying right now is to weaken the unions... personally, I doubt the effectiveness.
Germany actually has laws now that can cost you your benefits if you refuse a job, any job, even though the conditions are brinking on the illegal. There was some debate on whether they could force unemployed women to become prostitutes, as this is a recognised profession in Germany...
Cabra West
25-11-2005, 00:04
In US unions (I don't know what differences there are in other nations), you have no say in what your dues are used for, and you have no real say on the political stance of the union. You also don't really have any say in what kind of benefits or wages you get, and you don't get to really choose whether or not to strike. Also, if your place of employment is unionized, you don't have the option to not join it.

Sounds very different to European unions... if you are active in the union, you decide what the dues are used for, it is a democratic process. Same goes for the decisions on strikes. No union can go on strike without a vote from its members, and no union will refuse to strike if the majority of members is in favour.
As for the wages, unions normally make sure that your wage is a certain minimum, same goes for benefits. Every employer is free to go above that, though. He just can't go below.
Vetalia
25-11-2005, 00:08
Well, in most European countries, it is rather high at the moment. And the solution some of them seem to be trying right now is to weaken the unions... personally, I doubt the effectiveness.

The unions in Europe are in many ways causing the unemployment, by driving up labor costs and reducing the quality of workers by making it very difficult to fire them without causing major problems and costs. Their labor markets are too inflexible because there is too much union influence in company decisionmaking relative to the power of management.

Germany actually has laws now that can cost you your benefits if you refuse a job, any job, even though the conditions are brinking on the illegal. There was some debate on whether they could force unemployed women to become prostitutes, as this is a recognised profession in Germany...

That's way too far; that will probably worsen the situation rather than improve it. Germany needs to reform its benefits, but it definitely needs to avoid penalizing the unemployed and not offering anything in return. They aren't providing the unemployed with the means to get a job because there is too much of a labor-intensive heavy manufacturing influence in their economic policy, and the modern economy simply isn't tooled towards that in developed nations.
Vetalia
25-11-2005, 00:13
Sounds very different to European unions... if you are active in the union, you decide what the dues are used for, it is a democratic process. Same goes for the decisions on strikes. No union can go on strike without a vote from its members, and no union will refuse to strike if the majority of members is in favour. As for the wages, unions normally make sure that your wage is a certain minimum, same goes for benefits. Every employer is free to go above that, though. He just can't go below.

In the US, they vote on all of those things but the union leadership can either override or avoid a vote entirely, shifting the decision to the executive council/president of the union. As a result, strikes become heavily politicized and canend in disaster for both company and workers; this is what happened in the Cleveland area during the 1980's.

(The companies aren't blameless; they often resisted wage increases/worker benefits in favor of pensions and retirement benefits, with the result being that they aren't giving benefits to their current workers but to the retirees who contribute nothing to the company.)
Cabra West
25-11-2005, 00:16
The unions in Europe are in many ways causing the unemployment, by driving up labor costs and reducing the quality of workers by making it very difficult to fire them without causing major problems and costs. Their labor markets are too inflexible because there is too much union influence in company decisionmaking relative to the power of management.

True, to some extend. But I still think the way would be to reform the unions, not to just cut or restrain their influence.


That's way too far; that will probably worsen the situation rather than improve it. Germany needs to reform its benefits, but it definitely needs to avoid penalizing the unemployed and not offering anything in return. They aren't providing the unemployed with the means to get a job because there is too much of a labor-intensive heavy manufacturing influence in their economic policy, and the modern economy simply isn't tooled towards that in developed nations.

Also true. But that's not something that could be done in one term of office, so no party is likely to develop an effective plan on how to modernise. Also, it is extremely likely to piss of a great number of influential people... and politicians don't do that, as a general rule.
Cabra West
25-11-2005, 00:20
In the US, they vote on all of those things but the union leadership can either override or avoid a vote entirely, shifting the decision to the executive council/president of the union. As a result, strikes become heavily politicized and canend in disaster for both company and workers; this is what happened in the Cleveland area during the 1980's.

(The companies aren't blameless; they often resisted wage increases/worker benefits in favor of pensions and retirement benefits, with the result being that they aren't giving benefits to their current workers but to the retirees who contribute nothing to the company.)

That's the one really good thing about European Unions. All any politician can ever do is take the role of an impartial in any discussion between employers and unions. No union leader has any political role, and no politician can influence the unions.

As for retirement benefits, that's provided by the state, not the former employer.
Eruantalon
25-11-2005, 00:49
Nobody forces them to work at Wal Mart; they're not being exploited unless they are forced to work there, and in the developed world it is virtually impossible that you would be forced to work anywhere.

It's not really like that. I've heard many stories of Wal-Mart being the only choice because they have driven out all the other retailers from your town.
LazyHippies
25-11-2005, 01:03
This is why I plan to go into small business - you're self-employed and the atmosphere is better.

Man, are you in for a rude awakening. Small business is just as cut-throat as big business. It is still filled with unethical business practices, back stabbing, deception, and even illegal practices. Ive been involved in small business before and did not like the backstabbing cut throat nature of the small business atmosphere. In a lot of ways, it is probably more cutthroat than big business because there is more at stake, a small business is the owner's livelyhood and the investment of his life savings, a big one is just part of the CEO's stock portfolio.
Perkeleenmaa
25-11-2005, 02:02
Well, not really evil, just a little bit naughty... The most surprising thing about corporations is how little organization there is and how little people actually know. People expect you to know stuff they never told you. Employee training is poor or just ignored.

With recent immigrants, no one comes and checks that they actually understood anything said to them. There was a case where a couple of Chinese were left with the responsibility to load stuff into three docks, but "they not understand" and they worked only on one of them, leaving huge piles of stuff into the other docks. No manager checked that they were actually doing the task.

We're working with dangerous chemicals occasionally, and if there's a spill, no one's told me what to do. I'd find a manager; problem is, I don't know where they always are. Maybe I would go and walk around the house until I'd bump into one.

I haven't had any serious problems with scheduling, though. They do assume you to come half an hour early, and I had to tell them twice (the message just didn't get thru the first time) when I couldn't. They also don't pay any overtime 29 minutes or less. On the other hand, all older employees just stop working at the due hour, whether the production is done or not, so there's no difference.
Rotovia-
25-11-2005, 02:20
This one's fresh. I was fired (yesterday!) for attending a protest march ON MY LUNCH HOUR. The kicker was the march was against IR laws that would make it easier to fire employees...
Myrmidonisia
25-11-2005, 02:35
Sounds very different to European unions... if you are active in the union, you decide what the dues are used for, it is a democratic process. Same goes for the decisions on strikes. No union can go on strike without a vote from its members, and no union will refuse to strike if the majority of members is in favour.
As for the wages, unions normally make sure that your wage is a certain minimum, same goes for benefits. Every employer is free to go above that, though. He just can't go below.
That sounds fairly similar to what we have. But an employer can't discriminate between union employees that get better raises, bonuses, etc. That's all settled by collective bargaining. Emphasis on collective, by the way. Once the contract is set, so are the wages and incentives.

In fact, I was a member of the Iron Worker's union just after high school. I was cautioned a couple times by the steward for working too hard and doing things that weren't my responsibility. When a person can't work towards a common goal of a good building, in this case, the unions are pointless.
Myrmidonisia
25-11-2005, 02:38
It's not really like that. I've heard many stories of Wal-Mart being the only choice because they have driven out all the other retailers from your town.
My experience with Wal-Mart employees is anecdotal, but interesting. I usually ask the cashiers, or any of the associates on the floor that help me, how they like working for Wal-Mart. A few of them have left supermarkets like Publix because of better wages. Most of them like working for Sam. Once in a while, I get the sour grapes stories, but not very often. I think most employees like working there.
Alchamania
25-11-2005, 03:06
This one's fresh. I was fired (yesterday!) for attending a protest march ON MY LUNCH HOUR. The kicker was the march was against IR laws that would make it easier to fire employees...
Yeah I wish I had been able to attend one of the marches, but I need my job too much.