NationStates Jolt Archive

THE FORGOTTEN PRISONER (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,386033,00.html)

German Islamic extremist Mohammed Haydar Zammar has been locked in a dungeon in Damascus for the past four years as part of Washington's post-9/11 "extraordinary renditions" program. By placing the man with suspected ties to the Hamburg al-Qaida cell in Syrian hands, the United States is allowing Damascus to commit torture so that it doesn't have to.

I think at least in the case of rendition there is no way one could argue that it is not torture. Especially when it comes to the Syrian secret service.

Is there any way at all that this practice can be excused?
I've heard people say that locking suspects away without a trial is okay, that harsh interrogation methods are okay, that snatching people away from sovereign countries is okay and all the rest of it.
So is there anyone who can possibly argue that "Extraordinary Rendition" is excusable?

And another article, this time about an Australian with the apt title...
'I'm sorry, Mr Habib, you will never see your family again' (http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Im-sorry-Mr-Habib-you-will-never-see-your-family-again/2005/02/13/1108229857138.html)

That is just one example. Here is another:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0729-01.htm

Isn't there a Christian saying that we should not take the ways of the devil as our own?

THE FORGOTTEN PRISONER (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,386033,00.html)



I think at least in the case of rendition there is no way one could argue that it is not torture. Especially when it comes to the Syrian secret service.

Is there any way at all that this practice can be excused?
I've heard people say that locking suspects away without a trial is okay, that harsh interrogation methods are okay, that snatching people away from sovereign countries is okay and all the rest of it.
So is there anyone who can possibly argue that "Extraordinary Rendition" is excusable?

And another article, this time about an Australian with the apt title...
'I'm sorry, Mr Habib, you will never see your family again' (http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Im-sorry-Mr-Habib-you-will-never-see-your-family-again/2005/02/13/1108229857138.html)
Can you point out the part in the article where it proves this guy was tortured, besides the heresay accounsts of prisoners who are probably not the best of friends with the gaurds?


EDIE I'm not excusing or denying it. I just like to see smoke or flames before I yell fire.

Can you point out the part in the article where it proves this guy was tortured, besides the heresay accounsts of prisoners who are probably not the best of friends with the gaurds?
Proof that torture is a common practice in Syrian jails? Well, maybe the US Government has that lying around...what was that issue again with countries like Syria getting on the UN Human Rights Council?

Anyways, this is the bit of the article most specific, but as you would expect, it is heresay...seeing as to how media is not allowed anywhere near the Prison.
According to the human rights organization Amnesty International, torture is part of daily life at Far-Filastin. Prisoners who have been released have reported practices ranging from cable beatings on the soles of naked feet to electroshocks. Amnesty International has documented 38 different torture methods at Far-Filastin. An especially feared method involves forcing a prisoner into a car tire. The tire is suspended from the ceiling and the prisoner is then abused with sticks. The guards call the tool a "dulab." Malki says he has also experienced this form of torture.

EDIT: Here I have a report from the US State Dept (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41732.htm).
c. Torture and Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

The Constitution prohibits such practices, and the Penal Code provides punishment for abusers. Under Article 28 of the Constitution, "no one may be tortured physically or mentally or treated in a humiliating manner." However, there was credible evidence that security forces continued to use torture frequently...

Proof that torture is a common practice in Syrian jails? Well, maybe the US Government has that lying around...what was that issue again with countries like Syria getting on the UN Human Rights Council?

Anyways, this is the bit of the article most specific, but as you would expect, it is heresay...seeing as to how media is not allowed anywhere near the Prison.
Well, hopefully it's not true, and if it is, I hope it is stopped.

But until someone shows me proof that the U.S. is involved in the torture, other than the word of people who have professed that it is their wish that America be destroyed, I'll pass on lynching them in the streets. *shrugs*

But until someone shows me proof that the U.S. is involved in the torture, other than the word of people who have professed that it is their wish that America be destroyed, I'll pass on lynching them in the streets.
Well, the State Department says it happens all the time there, and the CIA sends people into those jails. I don't know what more "involved" could mean.

Bump...