NationStates Jolt Archive

http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationships/CouplesandMarriage/ArticleIV2.aspx?cp-documentid=102686&GT1=7386

There's a saying that goes, "Show me the most beautiful girl in the world, and I'll show you a guy who's tired of sleeping with her."

Rather crass, I think, but true. Not just for men, but for women too. And it's not just that we tire of each other, we keep getting interested in the other items on the menu.

Because let's face it, marriage is an unnatural state. No offense to my amazing wife, who I will never, ever cheat on, but the notion of staying intimate with one person for the rest of your life is akin to, say, being able to eat one kind of sandwich for the rest of your life. Imagine that? Tell me you wouldn't be leaning over the counter, looking at the day's special, wondering, "Wouldn't it be great if I could try that smoked turkey on rye?"

Marriage is a sacrifice. It's a commitment people make to each other that says, "I got your back for all time. It's you and no one else forever. Oh, and please pay the cable bill."

But I think most men -- including most of the guys in Hollywood -- stick to this commitment. And the ones who don't? They're just too hungry, and the sandwich they've got at home isn't hitting the spot the way it should. If you add to this equation being rich, impossibly good looking and the owner of an ego inflated by the likes of Jennifer Aniston and Sienna Miller, then, well, the odds that you'll cheat are probably a little higher. Either that, or Jude Law and Brad Pitt are a couple of depraved sex addicts.

In addition to being a husband and father to twin girls, Dan Cronin is an NYC-area comedian, writer and ad copywriter. He has been a featured stand-up comic as well as a sketch performer on NBC's Late Night with Conan O'Brien, and has also appeared on Comedy Central's Premium Blend. His video clips, performance schedule and other "unfiltered detritus" can be found at DanCronin.com.

Ok granted that this guy is a comedian, but whoa! So what are everyones thoughts on this?

Personally, I do believe that the best situation is a man and woman together and hopefully with children. However, that is only the overall, best for the average person. I also strongly believe that there are exceptions that will thrive better outside of this best situation. And when the world is populated in the billions, hundreds of thousands of exceptions, if not millions, is quite possible and likely.

http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationships/CouplesandMarriage/ArticleIV2.aspx?cp-documentid=102686&GT1=7386



Ok granted that this guy is a comedian, but whoa! So what are everyones thoughts on this?

Personally, I do believe that the best situation is a man and woman together and hopefully with children. However, that is only the overall, best for the average person. I also strongly believe that there are exceptions that will thrive better outside of this best situation. And when the world is populated in the billions, hundreds of thousands of exceptions, if not millions, is quite possible and likely.

It works for some, doesn't for others, there are other monogomous animals (wolves eg) and there are polygamous animals (eg lions)

It works for some, doesn't for others, there are other monogomous animals (wolves eg) and there are polygamous animals (eg lions) Yes, but humans all belong to the same species.

Marriage does require sacrifice, but that doesn't necessarily make it unnatural. Having a child requires sacrifice, and I doubt anyone would call that unnatural. Even something like a job in the most primitive sense of going out to hunt food requires a sacrifice of time and energy.

http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationships/CouplesandMarriage/ArticleIV2.aspx?cp-documentid=102686&GT1=7386



Ok granted that this guy is a comedian, but whoa! So what are everyones thoughts on this?

Personally, I do believe that the best situation is a man and woman together and hopefully with children. However, that is only the overall, best for the average person. I also strongly believe that there are exceptions that will thrive better outside of this best situation. And when the world is populated in the billions, hundreds of thousands of exceptions, if not millions, is quite possible and likely.
If humans did not marry, they would populate much to fast. They already reproduce much too fast, and (no offense) die much too slow. So there it is. My personal opinion. Disect, or debate it as you please.

Olara']Marriage does require sacrifice, but that doesn't necessarily make it unnatural. Having a child requires sacrifice, and I doubt anyone would call that unnatural. Even something like a job in the most primitive sense of going out to hunt food requires a sacrifice of time and energy.
that's what I was going to say :( oh well, I guess I can just add on.

I am married, I am not interested in any of the "other items on the menu" I seriously doubt I will ever be.

Marriage is work, it's not fun most of the time, if you expect marriage to be the thing to make you happy, you are expecting too much.

Yes, but humans all belong to the same species.

True, but humans are a bit more advanced than your average wolf/lion.

Marriage is work, it's not fun most of the time, if you expect marriage to be the thing to make you happy, you are expecting too much.
:(Depressing. Surely you get some fulfillment?

Olara] Depressing. Surely you get some fulfillment?

sure. I get what I need.

I am tired of hearing people who think that getting married will fix thier lives, the truth is it makes life harder in many ways.

The whole fairy tale about the prince who will come and "save you" is crap. If you can't be happy alone, you will never be happy married.

Well, the simple truth is that it is a social construct (it's not as though there is a genetic force in humans that compells us to go to church and walk down an isle, etc) and by that definition, it is basically unnatural.

sure. I get what I need.

I am tired of hearing people who think that getting married will fix thier lives, the truth is it makes life harder in many ways.

The whole fairy tale about the prince who will come and "save you" is crap. If you can't be happy alone, you will never be happy married.
Ah, I see what you mean. Sounds good to me.

That's why Marriage shouldn't be based on sex, which I believe is mostly to blame for today's high divorce rate.

Yes, but humans all belong to the same species.
And it's a very complex species, with a mixture of not entirely compatible instincts. Our most fundamental instincts are polygamous/promiscuous, and the majority of civilisations in history have permitted or tolerated polygamy (even Christian civilisation, although it doesn't allow polygamous marriage, has often tolerated mistresses and concubines, which amounts to much the same thing).

Against that, we have a more recently evolved instinct to form long-term pair bonds, a necessity mainly because our extended period of childhood/adolescence required the dedicated support of two parents.

Marriage is work, it's not fun most of the time, if you expect marriage to be the thing to make you happy, you are expecting too much.

Actually I do expect it to make me happy. Ok not as in 100% of the time, nothing can do that, not even your religion (seperate thread!). However, I do look at how it is over time. Anything is hard work and during it you will be down. But is it the marriage that is getting you down or other factors. So far with my spouse, I can honestly say that I have a happy marriage. At no point over the past 6-7 years (I know it's only the start) can I find anything about the marriage itself that doesn't make me happy.

http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationships/CouplesandMarriage/ArticleIV2.aspx?cp-documentid=102686&GT1=7386



Ok granted that this guy is a comedian, but whoa! So what are everyones thoughts on this?

Personally, I do believe that the best situation is a man and woman together and hopefully with children. However, that is only the overall, best for the average person. I also strongly believe that there are exceptions that will thrive better outside of this best situation. And when the world is populated in the billions, hundreds of thousands of exceptions, if not millions, is quite possible and likely.

I'm getting married but I am lucky in that I will still be able to include others in our sexing.

Also we're naver having kids so we aren't going to contribute to over-population.

I don't believe in marriage. Even if I could find someone I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, I probably wouldn't marry them. I'm just not good with commitments like that. Maybe that's why I've gone to three different elementery schools, six middle schools, three high schools, and two colleges so far and still can't decide which one I prefer(red). ;)

Actually I do expect it to make me happy. Ok not as in 100% of the time, nothing can do that, not even your religion (seperate thread!). However, I do look at how it is over time. Anything is hard work and during it you will be down. But is it the marriage that is getting you down or other factors. So far with my spouse, I can honestly say that I have a happy marriage. At no point over the past 6-7 years (I know it's only the start) can I find anything about the marriage itself that doesn't make me happy.
I am happy, all I am saying is that being married breaks more things than it fixes.

I seriously doubt that you have never had a bad day since you got married. The first two years of marriage alone are hard, you have to learn all sorts of stuff about another person that you never wanted to know.

I love my husband, and wouldn't trade our time together for anything in the world, even when we fight, I wouldn't want to live without him.

He isn't responsible for my happiness and I am not responsible for his. If you want to be miserable you will be married or not.

Marriage isn't magic it is work.

The first two years of marriage alone are hard, you have to learn all sorts of stuff about another person that you never wanted to know.


not for me - I think people should live together first before getting married so that you will be sure that you want to marry them after you find out all the hidden things. That's what I did with my fiancee before I proposed. we'll have lived together for 3 years before the wedding finally happens.

If humans did not marry, they would populate much to fast.I don't really see how marriage prevents reproduction. Condoms do a much better job. And people are more likely not to use anticonception if they're in a long-term relationship (especially marriage).
Married people often used to have 10-15 kids, up to half a dozen decades ago. That's a pretty full reproductive life. I don't think most single women would want to try that. Not then, and not now.

not for me - I think people should live together first before getting married so that you will be sure that you want to marry them after you find out all the hidden things. That's what I did with my fiancee before I proposed. we'll have lived together for 3 years before the wedding finally happens.
the odds are against you if you live together first. I hope things work out for you though, it takes a big commitment to want to marry someone.

My husband and I decided to just jump in and make it work. We weren't really worried about all the little stuff, everyone has little stuff. We talked over the big stuff, found out we agreed and ran off and eloped. :D

Our 5th anniversary is December 1st. For the most part things have worked out beautifully. I am so happy I get forever with him.

the odds are against you if you live together first. I hope things work out for you though, it takes a big commitment to want to marry someone.

My husband and I decided to just jump in and make it work. We weren't really worried about all the little stuff, everyone has little stuff. We talked over the big stuff, found out we agreed and ran off and eloped. :D

Our 5th anniversary is December 1st. For the most part things have worked out beautifully. I am so happy I get forever with him.

Why are the odds against someone who lives together first? Pretty mch every marriage in my family has broken up, and they all did the marry first, live together after (religious reasons - glad I don't go in for that kind of thinking). This is the reason I decided I would never marry anyone. I was only going to live with my gf but after a while I wanted to marry her - it wasnt a decision to live together to see if we wanted to get married really - it was more that we just wanted to live together.

Happy early anniversary.

I've been with my significant other for sixteen years, now. We're still not married.

I've been with my significant other for sixteen years, now. We're still not married.


That's awesome! before mmy current SO, all of my relationships laster months. I've had a steady relationship with my current SO for 5 years now

Why are the odds against someone who lives together first? Pretty mch every marriage in my family has broken up, and they all did the marry first, live together after (religious reasons - glad I don't go in for that kind of thinking). This is the reason I decided I would never marry anyone. I was only going to live with my gf but after a while I wanted to marry her - it wasnt a decision to live together to see if we wanted to get married really - it was more that we just wanted to live together.
yes I know it isn't from a fully unbiased source but I am too lazy to research too much on it.

http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Aug05/Art_Aug05_11.html

anyway imo you shouldn't get engaged until you are 100% sure you are going to get married, it seems like a waste of time to me to get engaged and then figure out if you want to marry the person later.

I have seen too many people that get engaged because it is "the next step" and then married because "we have been engaged for a while" and then 2 years down the road figure out they didn't want to be married at all, least of all to thier spouse.

EDIT: found this too

What do we know about cohabitation and marriage?
From the CDC Study study:
the probability of a relationship ending within 5 years is 20% for marrieds, 49% for cohabitators; after 10 years is 33% for married, 62% for cohabitators
from here (http://www.psychpage.com/family/mod_couples_thx/cohabitation.html)
Happy early anniversary.
thanks :D

yes I know it isn't from a fully unbiased source but I am too lazy to research too much on it.

http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Aug05/Art_Aug05_11.html

anyway imo you shouldn't get engaged until you are 100% sure you are going to get married, it seems like a waste of time to me to get engaged and then figure out if you want to marry the person later.

I have seen too many people that get engaged because it is "the next step" and then married because "we have been engaged for a while" and then 2 years down the road figure out they didn't want to be married at all, least of all to thier spouse.


thanks :D

hehe - well honestly I suspected that what you were saying was christian dogma.

The reason we did get engaged was precisely because thats what I wanted to do (to my surprise since I've always said I'd never get married.). It was always the plan not to get married.

I agree that people rush into marriage way to quickly.

hehe - well honestly I suspected that what you were saying was christian dogma.

The reason we did get engaged was precisely because thats what I wanted to do (to my surprise since I've always said I'd never get married.). It was always the plan not to get married.

I agree that people rush into marriage way to quickly.
I found a slightly less biased source that talks about the same study
here (http://love.ivillage.com/snd/sndcouplehood/0,,mhrq,00.html)

anyway, good luck, it is always great when someone finds someone worth thier time, I really hope things work out for you. :D

True, but humans are a bit more advanced than your average wolf/lion.

Wolves and lions may disagree with that point. ;)

Couples who cohabitate have characteristics different from non-cohabitating couples.
For example, couples living together are more likely to be "less religious," to have less income and to have parents who are divorced, the National Marriage Project study said. All three characteristics increase the likelihood of divorce.
cohabitation is less likely to turn to marriage if the woman has ever been raped (34% vs 17% for all women, 60% vs. 40% for White women, 59% vs. 54% for Black women), and history of rape leads to slightly lower likelihood of cohabitating and marrying again, and re-divorce after 5 years (29% vs. 20% for all women)
cohabitation prior to marriage was 4%, 9%, and 17% more likely if the husband's, wive's, or both partners' parents had divorced, and 59% more likely to predict divorce
These indicate that the people heading into "cohabitation" are those who would be less likely to successfully go through with a marriage anyway, due to views on marriage (religion) or due to a more troubled background (income, divorce, rape). This means that the study doesn't really indicate anything because it compares two different groups. In order for the study to have any meaning (outside of propaganda), it needs to have a control group so that the method itself is being tested as opposed to those who are using it.

Also, of interesting note,cohabitation being more likely to lead to marriage in prosperous areas (27% more likely for White women, 13% more likely for Black women)
Seems to imply that other factors (in this case economic) give a better indication, and lends evidence to the idea that the above conclusions were flawed for the exact reasons I pointed out.

That's why Marriage shouldn't be based on sex, which I believe is mostly to blame for today's high divorce rate.

I find that all too true. :( I'm not in a state where I think I could even consider marriage, and sen is great, hahaha, but there has to be some other form of compatibility. I'm a true believer in love... it may be my downfall :(