NationStates Jolt Archive

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113236377590902105-lMyQjAxMDE1MzEyOTMxNjkzWj.html

It seems that schools that focus mainly on academics, especially math and science are "too Asian" for some stupid white folks. If I was a parent I'd be overjoyed at the prospect of sending my kids to such a school, but some people think that high schools should stress arts and sports more than academics.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113236377590902105-lMyQjAxMDE1MzEyOTMxNjkzWj.html

It seems that schools that focus mainly on academics, especially math and science are "too Asian" for some stupid white folks. If I was a parent I'd be overjoyed at the prospect of sending my kids to such a school, but some people think that high schools should stress arts and sports more than academics.

While it is true that the Asian population of American Schools have been growing, I don't see how it has any baring on the academic experiences.

And as long as they still have parties...heh...more the merrier I say.

Oh, the silliness!

It seems that schools that focus mainly on academics, especially math and science are "too Asian" for some stupid white folks. If I was a parent I'd be overjoyed at the prospect of sending my kids to such a school, but some people think that high schools should stress arts and sports more than academics.
I'd have loved to go to such a school, I might have even had a shot at taking AP Calculus instead of getting walled out by my high school's craptacular scheduling policies.
Then I am crazy like that, with wanting to learn crap in school and all.

sadly its true.. every year i have to have a vertual war with my school so that i can take a science class; they only require 2 years and i want to take science all 4 years.....

Oh, so the reason for this anti-science tendency in recent days isn't the education system but the average Joe American's racial insecurity?

You know, that makes sense.

EDIT: I mean the explanation makes sense. Not the reasoning.

Second Edit: I mean The racial reason Doesn't make sense, but the explanation of attributing anti-science to racism does.

Gah. You know what I mean. ><;;

It seems that schools that focus mainly on academics, especially math and science are "too Asian" for some stupid white folks.
You can't teach the kids science - they might start to question their parents' views of the world.

whut tha hell bubba?!

You can't teach the kids science - they might start to question their parents' views of the world.
Exactly, especially since as the parents are always right, their kids have to be always right as well, and if their parents don't believe in taking $CLASS, the kids shouldn't either....

Yeah they might learn things that the parents don't like, Like Evloution for instance. (Couldn't resist)

I didn't read the article, so I don't know if they mention this, but there's another reason some parents are putting their kids in schools of, let's say, lesser quality. It's the competition factor when it comes to scholarships or entrance into elite universities. Some parents put their kids into a lesser high school where they can have a shot at valedectorian, or at least finish in the top 5 percent instead of putting them in a tougher school where they might get a better education but not finish so highly. I mean, what looks better on a Harvard application? A valedectorian at a smaller or not so economically gifted school or a finish in the top twenty at a quality school? And if we're talking about states that offer automatic scholarships to the top 5% of graduates at any school, then why not make your kid the big fish in a small pond? We're talking about potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars here.

I didn't read the article, so I don't know if they mention this, but there's another reason some parents are putting their kids in schools of, let's say, lesser quality. It's the competition factor when it comes to scholarships or entrance into elite universities. Some parents put their kids into a lesser high school where they can have a shot at valedictorian, or at least finish in the top 5 percent instead of putting them in a tougher school where they might get a better education but not finish so highly. I mean, what looks better on a Harvard application? A valedictorian at a smaller or not so economically gifted school or a finish in the top twenty at a quality school? And if we're talking about states that offer automatic scholarships to the top 5% of graduates at any school, then why not make your kid the big fish in a small pond? We're talking about potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars here.
That's a good point. I go to one of those highly competitive Asian schools (we actually call it that), and one of the problems we have is with class rank. Our school is simply so insanely competitive being in the top third of your class would put you in the running for valedictorian at any other high school in the state.

That's a good point. I go to one of those highly competitive Asian schools (we actually call it that), and one of the problems we have is with class rank. Our school is simply so insanely competitive being in the top third of your class would put you in the running for valedictorian at any other high school in the state.
I know what you're talking about. My daughter is in the opposite situation. She's in a magnet school for music, but the high school part of the program is average for the area so she gets the good side of both--the specialized music training and the less competitive academics (although both are better than the school she was attending in Mississippi).

I mean, what looks better on a Harvard application? A valedectorian at a smaller or not so economically gifted school or a finish in the top twenty at a quality school?

Honestly? I don't know about Harvard specifically, but most schools do consider the quality of the school, especially if someone is putting in an application from the top 5%/valedictorian/etc.

And if we're talking about states that offer automatic scholarships to the top 5% of graduates at any school,

Idiotic policy.

We're talking about potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars here.

We're talking about kids that, just based on going to a lesser school so they can be high in the class, are actually less prepared for college classes. Sure, you could send them to the worst school in the state, let them get valedictorian, and then they might get some scholarships to college, but they'll be likely to fail out (or at least lose their scholarships) in the first semester because no one has ever made them work for their grades. Do you know how many bright freshmen I've seen fail because they've never had to study before and just assumed that would fly at college too?

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113236377590902105-lMyQjAxMDE1MzEyOTMxNjkzWj.html

It seems that schools that focus mainly on academics, especially math and science are "too Asian" for some stupid white folks. If I was a parent I'd be overjoyed at the prospect of sending my kids to such a school, but some people think that high schools should stress arts and sports more than academics.
Are you kidding? People don't give a rat's ass about the arts. However, if you threaten sports, you will get stuff done quick, fast, and in a hurry.

Honestly? I don't know about Harvard specifically, but most schools do consider the quality of the school, especially if someone is putting in an application from the top 5%/valedictorian/etc.



Idiotic policy.



We're talking about kids that, just based on going to a lesser school so they can be high in the class, are actually less prepared for college classes. Sure, you could send them to the worst school in the state, let them get valedictorian, and then they might get some scholarships to college, but they'll be likely to fail out (or at least lose their scholarships) in the first semester because no one has ever made them work for their grades. Do you know how many bright freshmen I've seen fail because they've never had to study before and just assumed that would fly at college too?
Of course it's an idiotic policy, but they exist. A lot of colleges put too much of an emphasis on class rank rather then how competitive the school is, simply because they've never heard of the school.

Its refreshing to see that there are some people who put value on the things that really matter. Yes, science and mathematics will prepare you for high paying jobs in the future, but then there is more to life than making money. Maybe the reason these particular people realize this most important of concepts is because they themselves are rich and have come to realize how little that has to do with happiness. This is Silicon Valley, the place where the mayor had to move out and withdraw from his job because he could no longer afford to live there. A bunch of rich people realized there are more important things in life than academics and wanted their kids to be, not just successful, but also happy. It's very refreshing to see something like that in a country that tends to be so materialistic and career/money driven.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113236377590902105-lMyQjAxMDE1MzEyOTMxNjkzWj.html

It seems that schools that focus mainly on academics, especially math and science are "too Asian" for some stupid white folks. If I was a parent I'd be overjoyed at the prospect of sending my kids to such a school, but some people think that high schools should stress arts and sports more than academics.
While I agree with your main point I find art (as in both art art and music art) to be worth the kids while to learn

While I agree with your main point I find art (as in both art art and music art) to be worth the kids while to learn

My guess is that the issue here was more the sports than the arts. Parents (and students) freak out if sports aren't a major focus at a school in this country - as if playing football/basketball/soccer/etc. is somehow more important than learning. Don't get me wrong, I was in all sorts of extracurricular activities, mostly academic and music, but also the occasional sport. However, it was always clear that my studies came first.

My guess is that the issue here was more the sports than the arts. Parents (and students) freak out if sports aren't a major focus at a school in this country - as if playing football/basketball/soccer/etc. is somehow more important than learning. Don't get me wrong, I was in all sorts of extracurricular activities, mostly academic and music, but also the occasional sport. However, it was always clear that my studies came first.
I understand

The football team stold fundraised funds (that WE SOLD CANDY BARS FOR) from the band (money was for updating our 20 year old tuba's) to pay for new uniforms for a football team that had not won a game in 4 years

Makes me sick

Do you know how many bright freshmen I've seen fail because they've never had to study before and just assumed that would fly at college too?I do--I've failed some of them. :eek:

:headbang:

Do you know how many bright freshmen I've seen fail because they've never had to study before and just assumed that would fly at college too?

heh, i'm so bad - i got all the way to grad school without studying. the only time it ever nearly caused me any problems was a botany course full of a bit too much rote memorization for my tastes.

Oooooookaaaaaaaay. Talk about playing into sterotypes. I know the competition for colleges is insane, but really now.

I have to wonder though, if this isn't due not to the academic quality, but for those white students and parents suddenly finding themselves the minority and not being able to direct the flow the school any more.

Einstein felt that his love of music contributed to his mental alacrity. Studying music has been shown to have a correlation with improved math skills and the ability to synthesize complex themes into a single idea.

I've dabbled in improv comedy and I can tell you, after a session working on improv skills, my mind feels as sharp as a razor.

Besically, and I believe research bears this out, the brain is like a body. You don't get healthy just by working out 1 muscle, and surrounding muscles can help support a specific muscle.

So basically, when I see people say, "Who cares about the arts, our kids need science and math!" I cringe.

This rant may be apropos of nothing but I do feel it's relevant...if only in a tangental way.

It sort of irks me, this idea that white parents think Asian parents have some kind of special key to raising better students.

At the same time, I feel as if there might be a problem with Chinese and Indian parents forcing schools to cut out unnecessarily programmes, potentially turning a school into a high-SAT-score-mill. There is a little truth to the fact that Chinese and Indian immigrant parents push their kids harder, but when you're an immigrant in a country like this, higher education is really the best way to gain an economic foothold and modicum of social acceptance.

There is a risk that these parents, if they brought pressure to bear, would force schools to become too specialised on key areas. As a college student whose strength is in the liberal arts and humanities maybe I'm biased. I'm studying poli-sci and philosophy in preparation for law school. I would have lost my mind if my high school had suddenly morphed into a pre-pre-med preperatory school.

I think this kind of flight would have been going on if the immigrant parents were overzealous Swedes. What kind of flight would we have called it then?

I find it suprememly ironic that these are the same people who complain about the outsourcing of IT jobs, but are afraid of schools that are too academically rigorous in math/science which are the core studies of the information era. It's extremely disturbing that this attitude exists so close to Silicon Valley, since math and science are the economic backbone of the entire region.

I find it suprememly ironic that these are the same people who complain about the outsourcing of IT jobs, but are afraid of schools that are too academically rigorous in math/science which are the core studies of the information era. It's extremely disturbing that this attitude exists so close to Silicon Valley, since math and science are the economic backbone of the entire region.

The fear isn't over rigorousness. The fear is a lack of curricular diversity. There's a difference.

A society made up purely of scientists would fail. This information era would fall apart if there was no information worth transmitting.

A society made up purely of scientists would fail. This information era would fall apart if there was no information worth transmitting.

There is a pending crisis in the information industry in the US because too few people are entering math and science courses; as a result, we could be looking at a period of US technological slowdown simply because not enough people bothered to put in the work.

Of course, I am undoubtedly biased by my preference for math (I'm going to major in it), so it is rather impossible to see this from a liberal-arts angle.

There is a pending crisis in the information industry in the US because too few people are entering math and science courses; as a result, we could be looking at a period of US technological slowdown simply because not enough people bothered to put in the work.

Of course, I am undoubtedly biased by my preference for math (I'm going to major in it), so it is rather impossible to see this from a liberal-arts angle.

I respect your point of view totally. I would love to see the U.S. stay competitive technologically and it bothers me to see other countries beat us out in infotech and biotech.

I'll help you understand what I'm trying to say, from the liberal-arts angle.

Most importantly in my opinion is the fourth estate - journalism. Journalism requires a background in writing, political science and critical thought. Journalism is ideally the best check-and-balance against excessive power from the top. It helps to keep the nation and world honest and it helps to keep the world knowledgeable about what the top is doing. An informed populace is harder to oppress.

Law. An information society and high-tech economy does not run itself. Many societies in east Asia have seen immense growth in their infotech and biotech industries not only because of their highly specialised workforces in these fields, but because the stability of the rule of law (especially in patents and intellectual property) exists to shelter an environment of innovation. What motivation is there to create if your innovation will be stolen by others?

Art, architecture, and design keep civilisation interesting. Without them, society would be drab and boring. Besides, the arts are intellectually stimulating. An information systems engineer who plays violin or shreds metal guitar tends to be more mentally effective than one who doesn't, as a matter of simple fact.

I attended a high school that had at least as many Asians as whites. It had a science and tech magnet program, the Science Olympiad team frequently won national championships, and test scores were obscenely high. However, non-science departments were equally excellent. The high quality of the writing and history coursework left me well prepared to pursue a degree in history. Even some of the sports teams were highly ranked. Since colleges are increasingly evaluating applicants on broader criteria rather than specific test scores, it's important to train students to be adept at philosophy and fine arts, and not simply focus on chemistry and calculus. Any parent with half a brain in their head would not favor cutting the arts and humanities, as this would reduce the quality of their child's education.

Plus most of us weren't anal-retentive nerds. :) There was some friendly competition, but things were generally laid back and cooperative.

Hmm... I like and am skilled at the liberal arts (English, history, etc.), so I agree that the lack of support for these is disturbing (couldn't care less about sports, though). However, it seems ridiculous to assume that the focus on mathematics and science is due to some unusual population statistics. The racism demonstrated by some of the residents is rather disturbing.