NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, John 6 might be a allegory about filesharing:


6:8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, saith unto him,
6:9 There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?
6:10 And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.
6:11 And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.
6:12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.
6:13 Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.
6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

Jesus duplicates bread and fish to feed the masses. Filesharing is no different - nothing gets stolen - only duplicated to feed the intellectual hunger of the masses. Didn't Jesus say that man does not life by bread alone?

And I'm sure that the Bible doesn't say anything about copyright laws...

Hence my question: would Jesus be a filesharer?

jesus was a hippie and a socialist... damn straight he would be :cool:

lol. Ah, the wacky ways in which the bible can be interpreted.

And I'm sure that the Bible doesn't say anything about copyright laws...
Hmmm, now if the Bible was written by God, or by people working for God, and God is still alive, shouldn't that make it illegal under copyright law to reproduce the Bible, or read it in a public performance, without God's written permission? :)

This is the wrong question.

The right question is, would he build my hotrod?

This is the wrong question.

The right question is, would he build my hotrod?
Or, to go to an even older and more obscure musical reference, would Jesus wear a Rolex on his television show?

Or, to go to an even older and more obscure musical reference, would Jesus wear a Rolex on his television show?

If that one is more obscure, why does it sound familiar while the first I have no clue about, then?

Hmmm, now if the Bible was written by God, or by people working for God, and God is still alive, shouldn't that make it illegal under copyright law to reproduce the Bible, or read it in a public performance, without God's written permission? :)

Well there is the little matter of the 50 year limitation, or is it 75years, basically which ever is closer to mickey mouse's age (extensions in US copyright limitation peroids tend to happen when mickey gets close to that age).

Indeed, what is the difference between a duplicated fish and a duplicated file, anyway? I am glad to have some theological approval for file-sharing:D

Well there is the little matter of the 50 year limitation, or is it 75years, basically which ever is closer to mickey mouse's age (extensions in US copyright limitation peroids tend to happen when mickey gets close to that age).
Not sure it would come under US copyright law - God would probably have some sort of universal copyright, extended when he sees fit.

Not sure it would come under US copyright law - God would probably have some sort of universal copyright, extended when he sees fit.

True but it still wouldn't stop the chinese...

course he would the bum wandered about not working

You know, John 6 might be a allegory about filesharing:



Jesus duplicates bread and fish to feed the masses. Filesharing is no different - nothing gets stolen - only duplicated to feed the intellectual hunger of the masses. Didn't Jesus say that man does not life by bread alone?

And I'm sure that the Bible doesn't say anything about copyright laws...

Hence my question: would Jesus be a filesharer?

1)Jesus created the bread and fish from that which he already had -- he didn't steal it

2)File-sharing is stealing. When you download something for free instead of buying it, you take money out of the artist's, the writer's, the label's pockets. I don't care so much about the artist and label, as they have plenty (or tend to, if a popular artist/label), but writers don't all make a ton of money. Now if you download a song or two and then decide to buy the album, imo that's cool. But I know that I owe a whole slew of performers/writers about $1 or $2 apiece for those songs I downloaded while Napster was in its heyday.

3)Jesus did not condone stealing.

4)(as an aside) Because he did not condone stealing, Jesus was not a socialist. Jesus condoned personal charitable giving, not huge state-sanctioned taxes. He did say to follow the law... but nowhere does he actually agree with an aggressively punitive tax code.

1)Jesus created the bread and fish from that which he already had -- he didn't steal it

But if I put some mp3's online that I already have, then I didn't steal them.

2)File-sharing is stealing. When you download something for free instead of buying it, you take money out of the artist's, the writer's, the label's pockets. I don't care so much about the artist and label, as they have plenty (or tend to, if a popular artist/label), but writers don't all make a ton of money. Now if you download a song or two and then decide to buy the album, imo that's cool. But I know that I owe a whole slew of performers/writers about $1 or $2 apiece for those songs I downloaded while Napster was in its heyday.

But I don't take anything from anyone's pocket. By your analogy, Jesus would have stolen money from a bakery and from some fisherman.

3)Jesus did not condone stealing.

And it isn't. You could say, that it's a violation of copyrights - but the Bible doesn't say anything about copyrights.

I don't think Jesus would approve of being assigned to any political -ism (or any other -ism, for that matter.)

Also, he would share his files, but I get the feeling they would all be sermons.

I don't think Jesus would approve of being assigned to any political -ism (or any other -ism, for that matter.)


Oh yeah? Theism. :p

Christism? Doesn´t sound too bad, you know...

According to all that 'break the bread and divide it' or whatnot, Jesus most certainly would be a filesharer.
Question is: Should all filesharers be treated like Jesus?

Christism? Doesn´t sound too bad, you know...

According to all that 'break the bread and divide it' or whatnot, Jesus most certainly would be a filesharer.
Question is: Should all filesharers be treated like Jesus?

Crucification is an awfully harsh punishment for filesharing, don't you think?

Crucification is an awfully harsh punishment for filesharing, don't you think?

Don't give the music industry any weird ideas...

Well, over here they send spots insinuating filesharers will be raped in prison. How much harsher could punishment get?

True but it still wouldn't stop the chinese...

I think god could extend the reach of copyright?
And whether jesus would or wouldnt it exists and god bless the power of Bearshare.

This is the wrong question.

The right question is, would he build my hotrod?

No, the correct question is, would the Flying Spaghetti Monster be a filesharer?

(Nice Ministry ref, though. ;) )

I'm wishy-washy on the legitimacy of copyrights in general. But based on the way the RIAA and MPAA have acted in the past several years, I say to hell with them. I think Jesus agrees.


Now patent law, that's a bunch of crap.

But if I put some mp3's online that I already have, then I didn't steal them.



But I don't take anything from anyone's pocket. By your analogy, Jesus would have stolen money from a bakery and from some fisherman.



And it isn't. You could say, that it's a violation of copyrights - but the Bible doesn't say anything about copyrights.

copyrights are in place to protect the financial incentives of the creators/marketers or ideas. write a song, try to make money off of it, then tell me how you feel about people getting it for free while you starve.

copyrights are in place to protect the financial incentives of the creators/marketers or ideas. write a song, try to make money off of it, then tell me how you feel about people getting it for free while you starve.

It's not the point how I feel about it nor is it about wether I think that it might be morally wrong.

It's about wether we can assume it's a sin or not and wether Jesus would do it would he be alive today.

After all, how many bakeries went out of business on the day Jesus fed 5000 people with just 5 loafs of bread? Maybe Jesus would promote a complete different economic model where file-, fish- and breadsharing would hurt no one?

As much as I hate to interject any form seriousness or analytical thought into a frivolous discussion of fairy-tales, I'm going to do so anyway because I feel like being a Dick.
The key difference between filesharing and what Jesus did was the manner in which Jesus received the bread. Jesus was given some brat's lunch by said brat, and in that act said brat gave up any and all rights to the loaves. As such, Jesus was legally free to do whatever he felt inclined to do with it. The analogy to filesharing only applies if the artist/head programmer/production label/whatever gives you whole and complete rights to the object that you want to share. However, they didn't give you those rights, and so you are in no way replicating the miracle of feeding the 5,000.

Sincerely, etc.

Richard Bigg

PS: :p The roving asshat strikes again!

As much as I hate to interject any form seriousness or analytical thought into a frivolous discussion of fairy-tales, I'm going to do so anyway because I feel like being a Dick.
The key difference between filesharing and what Jesus did was the manner in which Jesus received the bread. Jesus was given some brat's lunch by said brat, and in that act said brat gave up any and all rights to the loaves. As such, Jesus was legally free to do whatever he felt inclined to do with it. The analogy to filesharing only applies if the artist/head programmer/production label/whatever gives you whole and complete rights to the object that you want to share. However, they didn't give you those rights, and so you are in no way replicating the miracle of feeding the 5,000.

Sincerely, etc.

Richard Bigg

PS: :p The roving asshat strikes again!

And what is the basis for withholding those rights? Copyright laws. So far, no one has pointed out a Bible passage about copyright laws.

And what is the basis for withholding those rights? Copyright laws. So far, no one has pointed out a Bible passage about copyright laws.
Jesus supports people's right to own shit until they want to share it on their own, so that more or less qualifies. You notice that when he split the loaves, he took those loaves from someone who willingly offered them. He didn't steal them, he didn't put the divine smack down on someone, he just waited until he was offered complete ownership of the loaves.

Jesus supports people's right to own shit until they want to share it on their own, so that more or less qualifies. You notice that when he split the loaves, he took those loaves from someone who willingly offered them. He didn't steal them, he didn't put the divine smack down on someone, he just waited until he was offered complete ownership of the loaves.
Though if you notice the provider of the loves did not put any qualifiers on posession of the loaves to earn more money he freely gave entire posetion away without being a greedy bastard. and saying "you can have these but ..."

And what is the basis for withholding those rights? Copyright laws. So far, no one has pointed out a Bible passage about copyright laws.

and they are unlikely to find one. the ancient tradition was more one of the idea that what we call intellectual property wasn't the sole creation of any person anyway and should be shared.

besides, jesus and pals, when not bringing more booze to the party or chasing bankers with whips, were all about holding all things in common.

Though if you notice the provider of the loves did not put any qualifiers on posession of the loaves to earn more money he freely gave entire posetion away without being a greedy bastard. and saying "you can have these but ..."
He didn't earn money at all, and it is hardly being a greedy bastard to want something for your work. If I do something, I do it for Me, moi, ich, yo, ego, I, Number 1, etc, etc. You want selflessness, go find a convent. You want to be part of the real world, then you have to realize that no one wants to do things to make you happy.

<snip>
You want to be part of the real world, then you have to realize that no one wants to do things to make you happy.
... including giving up filesharing :p

... including giving up filesharing :p
Including not arresting you for filesharing, as well.

Jesus supports people's right to own shit until they want to share it on their own, so that more or less qualifies. You notice that when he split the loaves, he took those loaves from someone who willingly offered them. He didn't steal them, he didn't put the divine smack down on someone, he just waited until he was offered complete ownership of the loaves.

But do we know if the lad had full rights on the loaves and the fishes? The Bible says nothing about it - he could even have stolen them. It seems like it isn't important to Jesus wether the lad had those rights. All that's important to Jesus is to thank the young boy.

Including not arresting you for filesharing, as well.
I have no worries ... for one I dont for two I doubt you or the recording industry would be willing to go through the work to catch me for the small fish that I am :)

Sorry you got to understand I come from an open-source backround... I do this hard work SO I can release it for free to the public

Far better for people to learn and enjoy it then for me to make money off of it

But do we know if the lad had full rights on the loaves and the fishes? The Bible says nothing about it - he could even have stolen them. It seems like it isn't important to Jesus wether the lad had those rights. All that's important to Jesus is to thank the young boy.
True that he did not ask if proper rights to the loaves had been aquired he went ahead and copied them anyways

I have no worries ... for one I dont for two I doubt you or the recording industry would be willing to go through the work to catch me for the small fish that I am :)
Damn! Who told you that my secret weakness was chronic laziness?
Sorry you got to understand I come from an open-source backround... I do this hard work SO I can release it for free to the public

Far better for people to learn and enjoy it then for me to make money off of it.
But you're still doing it for you. You get your jollies out of programming in your free time (or maybe you do it full time and have donated support, I dunno) and the distribution is just bragging about the stuff you can do. People who devote their full time to doing that sort of stuff, however, can't also have full time jobs, and they can hardly rely on the generosity of fans who aren't paying for their music normally to produce donations.

*bump*

I'd like to hear the opinions of some of the Bible cracks on this forum about this topic.

What do we have so far?

- the Bible doesn't seem to say anything about copyrights or intellectual property, which is interesting, because the Bible seems to be quite strict about what is to be considered sinful and what is not

- he simply makes enough copies of the fishes and the bread to feed 5000 people and he makes no inquiries wether those rights have been granted to him or not

- the parallels between filesharing and bread/fishsharing are absolutely overwhelming (see my first post in this thread)

That was it more or less I guess...

Hence my question: would Jesus be a filesharer?

Yes.

Damn! Who told you that my secret weakness was chronic laziness?

But you're still doing it for you. You get your jollies out of programming in your free time (or maybe you do it full time and have donated support, I dunno) and the distribution is just bragging about the stuff you can do. People who devote their full time to doing that sort of stuff, however, can't also have full time jobs, and they can hardly rely on the generosity of fans who aren't paying for their music normally to produce donations.
Well I do this almost 8 hours a day it could deffinatly be counted as a full time job lol

*bump*

I'd like to hear the opinions of some of the Bible cracks on this forum about this topic.

What do we have so far?

- the Bible doesn't seem to say anything about copyrights or intellectual property, which is interesting, because the Bible seems to be quite strict about what is to be considered sinful and what is not

- he simply makes enough copies of the fishes and the bread to feed 5000 people and he makes no inquiries wether those rights have been granted to him or not

- the parallels between filesharing and bread/fishsharing are absolutely overwhelming (see my first post in this thread)

That was it more or less I guess...

Well, let's see---what does the Bible say about property, and the unlawful taking thereof?

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!

Seems simple enough. If something (material, intellectual, whatever) is considered someone's property, and someone else takes it without permission, then that is called "theft", and is a sin.

The only way around that would be to define the creative conceptus as inherently incapable of being owned by the creator...Therefore, all payment for creative work could be considered a charitable donation, and anyone who wants to could use or copy to their heart's content, especially if they had already made their donation to the record store/online music service.

And artists would no longer have to pay taxes on any income received from peddling their wares.

:D

Well, let's see---what does the Bible say about property, and the unlawful taking thereof?

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!

Seems simple enough. If something (material, intellectual, whatever) is considered someone's property, and someone else takes it without permission, then that is called "theft", and is a sin.

The only way around that would be to define the creative conceptus as inherently incapable of being owned by the creator...Therefore, all payment for creative work could be considered a charitable donation, and anyone who wants to could use or copy to their heart's content, especially if they had already made their donation to the record store/online music service.

And artists would no longer have to pay taxes on any income received from peddling their wares.

:D


Filesharerers don't get busted for theft. It is not theft. It's copyright violation. The Bible doesn't say anything about the concept of copyright violation.

Jesus copies the bread without even asking about copyrights.