NationStates Jolt Archive

It is a question that has been bugging me since forever. You see, I live in Maryland and me and my friends have always debated whether or not our state is part of the South. Some people claim that the South is anything below the Mason-Dixon line, but Maryland was a Union state during the civil war. However, Maryland was still a slave state.
I certainly don't feel like a southerner but there are some people in my area who do. What do you think?

If 50% or more of the people you see in a given area bring to mind banjo music, you're in the South. Which is something of a misnomer since basically the whole of Idaho, and even parts of centeral Canida, are like that.

*googles maryland to see where it is*

Hmm, the one close to Delaware? It looks quite in the middle, to the north-east, no? Don't you have middle states?

Anyway, I'd say north, but I know nothing.

I was always under the indication that anything south of the Equator was, well, the South.

My husband is a native Marylander, and he's always told me that Maryland was pretty much torn in two during the American Civil War. The Mason-Dixon line actually bisects the state, but more than that it was the population that split them - many favoured the South while others favoured the North. So really, I guess you can be whatever you want to be. :)

*googles maryland to see where it is*

Hmm, the one close to Delaware? It looks quite in the middle, to the north-east, no? Don't you have middle states?

Anyway, I'd say north, but I know nothing.
You know where delaware is?

Most people know maryland, but not DE (we're smaller).


Anyway, it depends on what part of maryland. For example, New Castle County (northern) delaware isn't in the south, but the lower two counties would most likely be considered southern.

It is a question that has been bugging me since forever. You see, I live in Maryland and me and my friends have always debated whether or not our state is part of the South. Some people claim that the South is anything below the Mason-Dixon line, but Maryland was a Union state during the civil war. However, Maryland was still a slave state.
I certainly don't feel like a southerner but there are some people in my area who do. What do you think?

While still divided by the ideals of the war, the Maryland state government almost seceeded. It was only the intervention(and threat) of the US army that kepy Maryland in the Union.

Had US troops not 'captured' the capitol when they did, Maryland most likely would have gone to the CSA.

When asking yourself if you are a Southerner, just think about this: how important are states' rights to you? Because the average Southerner at the time(and maybe even now) favors a government that allows locals to determine their lifestyles.

My fiance is a Marylander too, so from what I understand...

1) You are south of Mason-Dixon -- 1 count for Southern.
2) You were a Union state -- 1 count for Northern.
3) You were a Union state at gunpoint -- 1 count for Southern.
4) States further south (like Virginia) consider you Northern. -- 1 count for northern.
5) States further north of you (like Delaware) consider you Southern. -- 1 count for Southern... 3-2, Southern wins....


I just count you guys as American, and mourn that you've got DC smack between you and Virginia. Who needs that many politicians in close proximity? ;)

You know where delaware is?
Most people know maryland, but not DE (we're smaller).

Oh, I know of Delaware and its abbreviation, which was marked on the map next to MD, which I assumed was Maryland, hence my asking.

But I do know more about Delaware than Maryland, I think. Like, isn't there a river someone (I think Washington) crossed there?

Yes but, is Maryland part of the South or is it a Mid-Atlantic state?

I just count you guys as American, and mourn that you've got DC smack between you and Virginia. Who needs that many politicians in close proximity? ;)

LOL I'm with you there. If anyone decides to nuke DC, I'm screwed...

And yeah, I call all Americans 'Yanks' (as do most Aussies). Some of my Maryland friends bring me to task on that, since they consider themselves Southern, but I just shrug and keep on calling them Yanks. :D

Yes but, is Maryland part of the South or is it a Mid-Atlantic state?

That's just the point - both and neither. If America was a nation divided, then Maryland was a state divided. Whether you consider Maryland to be Southern or Northern really depends on your own personal views.

My fiance is a Marylander too, so from what I understand...

1) You are south of Mason-Dixon -- 1 count for Southern.
2) You were a Union state -- 1 count for Northern.
3) You were a Union state at gunpoint -- 1 count for Southern.
4) States further south (like Virginia) consider you Northern. -- 1 count for northern.
5) States further north of you (like Delaware) consider you Southern. -- 1 count for Southern... 3-2, Southern wins....


I just count you guys as American, and mourn that you've got DC smack between you and Virginia. Who needs that many politicians in close proximity? ;)

Well, taking into account that about most of the people in my area are employed by the goverment....
Plus, politics have become a form of entertainment; protest are so fun to watch.

I'm a southerner, but was born a yankee.

Go figure.

It's a border state.

It had slavery and Jim Crow laws, so culturally, it's not really part of the North East.

On the other hand, for a variety of reasons, it wasn't part of the confederacy, so it's not really part of the South.

Basically, it's in the same catagory as Delaware, Kentucky and Missouri, i.e, the so-called border states.

Maryland is most definately not in, or part of The South.

There is just one easy question you need to ask-
Is there an SEC school?
No.

Same reason Texas isn't part of The South.

It is a question that has been bugging me since forever. You see, I live in Maryland and me and my friends have always debated whether or not our state is part of the South. Some people claim that the South is anything below the Mason-Dixon line, but Maryland was a Union state during the civil war. However, Maryland was still a slave state.
I certainly don't feel like a southerner but there are some people in my area who do. What do you think?
Maryland was not a part of the Confederacy. To many Southerners, that means that Marylanders are Yankees.

Easy yardstick: If your State was not South of the Mason-Dixon Line, it's not Southern.

The American South is currently comprised of: Anything below the mason/dixon line, anyone who flies the stars and bars, and anyone who regularly uses "y'all" without ANY sarcasm. It's not just a place on the map, it's an entire culture.

Phisheads']Maryland is most definately not in, or part of The South.

There is just one easy question you need to ask-
Is there an SEC school?
No.

Same reason Texas isn't part of The South.

Texas is part of the south. Hell, we were an early confederate state, and a major player in the War of Northern Aggression.

Ackshualle. I think Maryland is the South. They were Southern by blood. The damned Yanks just wanted DC 'cause it's where Lincoln lived. Of course... I'm from the great state of NC. I believe we're the best most Southern state out there.

Phisheads']Maryland is most definately not in, or part of The South.

There is just one easy question you need to ask-
Is there an SEC school?
No.

Same reason Texas isn't part of The South.

North Carolina doesn't have an SEC school either.....

the War of Northern Aggression.
Hehehe! :D

Texas is a Southern state, yeah. But yall are completely different than all other states in The South. Who the heck barbeques cow? Pork is the way to go. Besides, there is a huge cultural difference. You may have been part of the Confederacy, but that doesn't matter when speaking in modern day terms.

If this conversation makes sense to you then you are probably living among southernors...

Waiter: "What do you want to drink??"

You: "A coke."

Waiter: "Which coke?"

You: "Pepsi"

http://www.popvssoda.com/images/smalldrawn.gif

http://www.popvssoda.com/

I prefer "the late, great unpleasantness." ;)

Hehehe! :D

Even the South has its own PC.

make a poll for americans and tell them to say what they voted and where they're from
maybe we can make a map

If this conversation makes sense to you then you are probably living among southernors...

Waiter: "What do you want to drink??"

You: "A coke."

Waiter: "Which coke?"

You: "Pepsi"

Yeah. That about clinches it.

North Carolina doesn't have an SEC school either.....


Hey, who can call a place with 'North' in its name part of The South? jk. Actually, you guys had a SIAA team before it was reformed into the SEC.

I don't even know what an SEC school is... but, uhm, I stand by my belief. 'Cause more North Carolinians died in the War Between the States and fought in the Confederate Army than any other state. We're proud of our heritage.

As for now-a-days... you should come visit Charlotte.

Also, it's not "coke" it's "soda" down here. I dunno why people think we all call it "coke".

Phisheads']Texas is a Southern state, yeah. But yall are completely different than all other states in The South. Who the heck barbeques cow? Pork is the way to go. Besides, there is a huge cultural difference. You may have been part of the Confederacy, but that doesn't matter when speaking in modern day terms.
Texas is a southern state, but in retrospect, you people must talking about the DEEP south.

Soda...pffft!

Pop is the way to go!

My parents use the word coke and thier from Massachusets. Wierd huh?

As for now-a-days... you should come visit Charlotte.

Also, it's not "coke" it's "soda" down here. I dunno why people think we all call it "coke".
Carpetbagger!!:p ;)

My parents use the word coke and thier from Massachusets. Wierd huh?
Thats just... madness...

;)

Still, here in east Texas, we're so close to "Luzyana" that it really doesn't matter.

my folks call them "soft drinks" .. I say soda.

Bah! Born and raised, my friend. Mebbe it's just Charlotte that's backwards, but I've always called it soda. The fact that I drink Coke means that all I ever ask for is Coke, though.

Ever dropped some peanuts in your pepsi or coke? Use to do that when I was little.

I call them soft drinks. Everyone else here calls them sodas. For some reason I get strange looks when I talk about pot plants, too. They all add a syllable and call them potTED plants. :rolleyes: And I don't want to even get onto the first time I asked my employer if he had a rubber... (eraser, for you Yanks).

Ever dropped some peanuts in your pepsi or coke? Use to do that when I was little.
yes i dropped a peanut shell into a soda at a baseball game once but then i frowned and tried to fish it out before it sank and failed and then wound up sipping the drink so i wouldn't swallow a peanut shell.

I call them soft drinks. Everyone else here calls them sodas. For some reason I get strange looks when I talk about pot plants, too. They all add a syllable and call them potTED plants. :rolleyes: And I don't want to even get onto the first time I asked my employer if he had a rubber... (eraser, for you Yanks).
lol awesome

Probably more of a generation thing. Is with mine and my older family members anyway.

I'm a Banjo-playin', Fiddle-playin', Dixie-singin', Gumbo-eatin', Bayou-fishin', Yankee-hatin' (although I like the team), son of a Southerner.

Now, Maryland would have seceded, had not President Lincoln (May he rest in peace) imprisoned all the Rebel leaders and suspended laws requiring a charge for imprisonment, and so forth.

Many of the border states were like this, and then of course, we have West Virginia. Dern West Virginians turned their backs on their honor and seceded from the seceded!

My Great-Great-Grandfather was a Captain, or somesuch officer, in the 13th Louisiana Infantry or something. Don't remember exactly. But we have a picture of his gravestone (He lived his full life, he was not killed in the war).

Anyway, that war is long gone, and *disclaimer* I am by no means supportive of slavery. Anyway, I still think the South shall Rise Again! (After we rebuild New Orleans...)

I call them soft drinks. Everyone else here calls them sodas. For some reason I get strange looks when I talk about pot plants, too. They all add a syllable and call them potTED plants. :rolleyes: And I don't want to even get onto the first time I asked my employer if he had a rubber... (eraser, for you Yanks).

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Did you even realize what "rubber" is common slang for?!?!?!?
Secondly, They are plants, placED in pots, thus POTTED plants. And the south seems to use coke or soda, depending on the state, or region.

yes i dropped a peanut shell into a soda at a baseball game once but then i frowned and tried to fish it out before it sank and failed and then wound up sipping the drink so i wouldn't swallow a peanut shell.

Unshelled peanuts, in pepsi. I've known alot of people that do that, not sure if it's a southern thing or not tho. /shrug

(After we rebuild New Orleans...)
Yeah, having a part of the southern identity blown away like that really sucked. Of course, if louisiana's government wasn't so damned corrupt, most of the spectacle could have been avoided.

And Texas was a Southern state!

But they couldn't even capture New Mexico! And they say they do everything bigger... HAHAHA!!!

Yeah, having a part of the southern identity blown away like that really sucked. Of course, if louisiana's government wasn't so damned corrupt, most of the spectacle could have been avoided.

Yeah, well, what about Biloxi?

I only wish there'd been Yankee ships in the harbor when a hurricaine blew through. Haha! They'd a run from that! Or, in that case, sink... Haha!

And not all of Louisiana is corrupt. Especially not Monroe.

And Texas was a Southern state!

But they couldn't even capture New Mexico! And they say they do everything bigger... HAHAHA!!!

...
Fuck you, asshole. We trounced an army larger than our entire population before we became our own country, which is more than most of you wimpy states can claim.

(O.K., yeah you got us there.)

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Fuck you, asshole. We trounced an army larger than our entire population before we became our own country, which is more than most of you wimpy states can claim.
Careful with the flaming, Tex, or you'll have your own Alamo right here, surrounded by flaming Mods! :)

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Fuck you, asshole. We trounced an army larger than our entire population before we became our own country, which is more than most of you wimpy states can claim.

Yes... you did it once, but you couldn't reproduce the feat.


Got a little... Impotent, eh?

HAHAHAHAHA!

(No hard feelin's between Southerners, by the way, eh?)

Careful with the flaming, Tex, or you'll have your own Alamo right here, surrounded by flaming Mods! :)

The Texans didn't do so hot there, either...

It was all because of Santana's stupid tactical mistake, and your exploitation of it...

Careful with the flaming, Tex, or you'll have your own Alamo right here, surrounded by flaming Mods! :)

Oh please don't mention the Alamo. I live in East Texas now, but I grew up in SA. The POOR side of SA.(can you "rampant anti-anglo racism" and "widespread crime and political corruption"?) My mom and I visited the Alamo every week. Bowie is my personal hero.

If 50% or more of the people you see in a given area bring to mind banjo music, you're in the South. Which is something of a misnomer since basically the whole of Idaho, and even parts of centeral Canida, are like that.

I know I am responding to this late, but I'm sorry. "Canida"? I usually stick up for America when my friends start bashing them, but sometimes their ignorance, arrogance, & total self-absorption make the task onerous.

By the way, I'm from the province of Saskatchewan (which is Hick Central) & if you've never seen a rock band play electric banjoes whilst headbanging, then you, my friend, have not lived.

(No hard feelin's between Southerners, by the way, eh?)
If we let grudges get in the way, then the War would've never happened.:)

Oh please don't mention the Alamo. I live in East Texas now, but I grew up in SA. The POOR side of SA.(can you "rampant anti-anglo racism" and "widespread crime and political corruption"?) My mom and I visited the Alamo every week. Bowie is my personal hero.
Kewl. Sounds like you got off easier than I did. We lived about two miles from the old Grand Ole' Opry in Nashville, Tennesse, and my grandmother hauled me off there so many times that to this day I hate almost all C & W music!

If we let grudges get in the way, then the War would've never happened.:)

Mahty Cohrect thah, Sah. You'sa got yo'self a pahnt.

Shall we ha' some Sweet Tea 'n Biscuits?

Kewl. Sounds like you got off easier than I did. We lived about two miles from the old Grand Ole' Opry in Nashville, Tennesse, and my grandmother hauled me off there so many times that to this day I hate almost all C & W music!
I've always wanted to see the Grand Ole' Opry. Wanna trade childhoods? j/k

Mahty Cohrect thah, Sah. You'sa got yo'self a pahnt.

Shall we ha' some Sweet Tea 'n Biscuits?

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Right, I really don't want this to fall into a flame war, but slavery was on the way out, and if Lincoln had let be, the social injustices leading to civil rights movement of the 60's would never have happened. The quick change, designed to destablize the southern economy led to anger and resentment of blacks. Even worse, I wouldn't have been singled out as having slave-owning great-great-grandparents. (HA! Irish immigrants+Native Americans. Slave owners my ASS.)

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Right, I really don't want this to fall into a flame war, but slavery was on the way out, and if Lincoln had let be, the social injustices leading to civil rights movement of the 60's would never have happened.

Er... Alot of Southerners talked like that. Not just the slaves.

We are a band of brothers
And native to the soil
Fighting for our liberty
With treasure blood, and toil
And when our rights were threatened,
The cry rose near and far
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears a single star!

Refrain:
Hurrah!
Hurrah!
For Southern rights, hurrah!
Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears a single star.



As long as the Union
Was faithful to her trust
Like friends and brethren,
Kind were we, and just
But now, when Northern treachery
Attempts our rights to mar
We hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears a single star.

First gallant South Carolina
Nobly made the stand
Then came Alabama
And took her by the hand
Next, quickly Mississippi,
Georgia, and Florida
All raised on high the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears a single star.

Ye men of valor gather
Round the banner of the right
Texas and fair Louisiana
Join us in the fight
Davis, our loved President,
And Stephens statesmen are
Now rally round the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears a single star.

And here's to brave Virginia
The Old Dominion state
With the young Confederacy
At length has linked her fate
Impelled by her example
Now other states prepare
To hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears the single star.

Then here's to our Confederacy
Strong we are and brave
Like patriots of old we'll fight
Our heritage to save
And rather than submit to shame
To die we would prefer
So cheer for the Bonnie Blue Flag
That bears the single star.

Then cheer boys cheer
Raise the joyous shout
For Arkansas and North Carolina
Now have both gone out
And let another rousing cheer
For Tennessee be given
The single star on the Bonnie Blue Flag
Has grown to be eleven.


And to Missouri we
Extend both heart and hand
And welcome her a sister
Of our Confederate band
Tho surrounded by oppression
No one dare deter
Her adding to our Bonnie Blue Flag
Her bright and twelfth star!

Er... Alot of Southerners talked like that. Not just the slaves.
Sorry, it's just that so many people pick on that, and the speech pattern is commonly associated with slaves/slavery. I just get a little hot-headed about it.

Sorry, it's just that so many people pick on that, and the speech pattern is commonly associated with slaves/slavery. I just get a little hot-headed about it.
i like the black crows from Dumbo

they're funny

I saw them in the movie 1941

I never understood why people say Slavery wasn't disappearing. It's obvious that it was. The staple of Southern economy no longer required that many people... it was because of the Industrial Revolution that things were becoming easier. Besides, many slave-owners aren't the harsh, over-bearing people Uncle Tom's Cabin would have us to believe. For the most part they were nice, honourable people that were just making a living with what they were given.

Anyway, I don't want to flame either. I just felt that ought to be known, as a Southern boy myself, I felt it was proper to educate myself on my history.

Yup, those crazy abolitionists and their desire for the slaves to be freed, but not live in the same neighbourhood as themselves.

On a similar note, if Eli Whitney hadn't been born, cotton never would've become King.

i like the black crows from Dumbo

they're funny

I saw them in the movie 1941

Hehehehe. I always liked the "fly" puns.

I never understood why people say Slavery wasn't disappearing. It's obvious that it was. The staple of Southern economy no longer required that many people... it was because of the Industrial Revolution that things were becoming easier. Besides, many slave-owners aren't the harsh, over-bearing people Uncle Tom's Cabin would have us to believe. For the most part they were nice, honourable people that were just making a living with what they were given.

Anyway, I don't want to flame either. I just felt that ought to be known, as a Southern boy myself, I felt it was proper to educate myself on my history.

You are completely correct. Slavery was on the way out, however, most slaves were indeed not treated as badly as the stereotype would have people believe. Indeed, my family, or so I hear, had plantations and slaves, but my ancestors were not harsh, mean, evil, etc, towards the slaves.

Slavery is wrong, however, for the very reasons upon which this nation was founded: Liberty & c. In other societies, such as Rome, where slavery was not skin-color based, and where slaves were really not treated terribly, but were more like adopted family members, slavery was an integral part of the society, and not necessarily evil. However, as slavery became incarnated in the Americas, namely, that of color-based, discriminatory, often-harsh treatment, it had to go.

All in all, I think our country turned out okay. Except for a bruised Southern Ego...

Except for a bruised Southern Ego...
You the master of the understatement.

Indeed. I still believe that if the world ends in a Zombie Apocalypse, the South will prevail where the North falters. So who wins in the end? We does!

You are completely correct. Slavery was on the way out, however, most slaves were indeed not treated as badly as the stereotype would have people believe. Indeed, my family, or so I hear, had plantations and slaves, but my ancestors were not harsh, mean, evil, etc, towards the slaves.

Slavery is wrong, however, for the very reasons upon which this nation was founded: Liberty & c. In other societies, such as Rome, where slavery was not skin-color based, and where slaves were really not treated terribly, but were more like adopted family members, slavery was an integral part of the society, and not necessarily evil. However, as slavery became incarnated in the Americas, namely, that of color-based, discriminatory, often-harsh treatment, it had to go.

All in all, I think our country turned out okay. Except for a bruised Southern Ego...

The archetype was portrayed because the majority (as always) was silent. I do, however, agree that slavery had to go.

Furthermore, do people just fail to realize the facts that the original slaves were sold by other Africans as war-prisoners? Or that Africans had white slaves even while we had African slaves?

The archetype was portrayed because the majority (as always) was silent. I do, however, agree that slavery had to go.

Furthermore, do people just fail to realize the facts that the original slaves were sold by other Africans as war-prisoners? Or that Africans had white slaves even while we had African slaves?

The looney-left are the ones do not realize this. Usually yanks, or worse, yanks transplanted to the south.

Aye. Carpetbaggers fed their Northern brothers' propaganda about us good ol' Southern boys and our families. Y'know... it's "Southern Hospitality" 'cause we're nice people, not 'cause we're mean.

You mean those moral-less salesmen who capitalized on a war ravaged nation, who treated the Southerners worse than dirt, and then charged recently widowed women an arm & leg for food and other necessities?

Of course. It was those people who, also, got us Southerns to be termed "stupid" and "slow". Because they didn't understand the human qualities of charm and good-will. Northerners have always been about profit and personal welfare. So, when there was a high demand for their supplies, the bastards they are made prices raise. God curse the Carpetbagger.

By the way, what's your view on Scalliwags?

Traitors to the people that fought a war for them.

And how!

Whats worse is that dems continue to write us off as a "lost cause". They still consider us uneducated, and that the massive block of red in the center of our nation is empty. :D They don't seem to realize that even if they get control of the government, they still won't have a powerful enough mandate t govern. Which is why we get to push Bush into office, twice. My favorite part is that the south is shafted so badly in national politics, that Bush was/is criticized for the way he speaks and strings his words together. It's almost normal where he grew up.

It's been a century, and they still don't get it.

The country is ran by Northerners, which is unfortunate. I love watching C-Span, though. 'Cause quite a few of the Senators from the South have that same drawl. It's sad that most of America makes fun of someone based solely off of dialect. For instance, I live in a New York Italian home (post-Carpetbagger migration) and I've lost much of my accent. People think I'm a smart, well-to-do person from a middle state (such as Maryland). However, if I put back on the drawl, I am considered a "country bumpkin". I didn't get more stupid, I just sound native.

That's one reason I love Bush. He shows our country can be ran by someone with our Southern dialect.

Sidenote: California is ran by Ahnold. If anyone sounds dumb, it's him. I love how the Republicans actually won with him in the Democrat Socialist state the People's Republic of California. That was a serious blow to Democratic ego.

Yeah, the terminator really helped put things on the right track in Cali. Incidently, my Southern speech was too much trouble in grade school, so I adopted a neo-hispanic sorta-slang. Helped alot in San Antonio. After "dropping out" of 8th grade, I picked up an accentless form of speech. (how english was meant to be spoken) After moving east, my drawl was back within days.
Our dialect is such a huge part of our identity in the south. Have you ever watched "Good Eats" on the food network? The host actually had to lose his accent fo TV, because the drawl is still looked down upon by so many Yanks. And yeah, watching c-span and listing to a south-R is quite refreshing. Common sense, spoken from Washington, in a southern drawl. The pinnicle of Republican achievement.

Truly, it is great to hear a good ol' Republican in the Senate. I'm still ashamed that John Edwards is a Senator in my state. He's done nothing worth-while in the Senate and spent all of his last term's salary on trying for President. He wasted my money for something he couldn't do. What a waste of a Southerner.

I love "Good Eats". I didn't know he had to lose his accent. That's a damned pity. Y'know what? I think I'mma become a Senator after I turn 40. Hell, by then I might be the only one with an accent still.

I'm reading a liberal think tank discussion thread...and it deals with the south, and whether or not the dems can win it come election time '08. It absolutly hilarious, because even southern dems. get riled up when someone starts playing carpetbagger. It eventually degenerates into Rebel vs. Yank. Absolutly hilarious.

Y'know what? I think I'mma become a Senator after I turn 40. Hell, by then I might be the only one with an accent still.
Ya got my vote.

Perhaps a 'southern' region in NS is in order. I'll check to see if any already exist.
Edit:
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no hits for south, southern, confederacy, or confederate. It's a crime against southern politics.

Texas is part of the south. Hell, we were an early confederate state, and a major player in the War of Northern Aggression.
So named because the South attacked the North.

Perhaps a 'southern' region in NS is in order. I'll check to see if any already exist.
Edit:
...
no hits for south, southern, confederacy, or confederate. It's a crime against southern politics.
I've been loyal to Jaburo for at least a year, but if you create a Confederate region, I swear I'll join it with my 6b nation :)

(I don't promise I'll stay, though...)

So named because the South attacked the North.
First: troll alert
Second: He's mine
Third: The north began using its manufacturing power to force the south to sell raw products for little money, then selling needed products for huge amounts of money in comparison. Worse, the hippocritical abolitionists began to attempt to completely destabilze the agricultural south's economy. The of slavery was only a generation or so away, and if the abolitionists had left well enough alone, the war would not have been half as bad. Further injustices we lodged against the south after secession, as the Union took hold of three states by declaring martial law. (act of war #1) Then they refused to recognize the new nation, and held critical supplies just over the mason-dixon line. true, the confederacy fired the first shot, but not without justifiable reason. The War of Northern Aggression is aptly named by southerners.

So named because the South attacked the North.

I'm afraid that it was Northern Aggression, because the North refused to surrender property that was, rightly, the South's. The government said that, if any state wished to secede due to the loss of freedoms, that state was granted the right and all military installations within the state as well as all soldiers that wished to remain were considered that state's. Buchanan refused to acknowledge this.

Furthermore, the CSA wished for peace between the North and South. It was President Lincoln that declared war on the South, not the other way about.

I'm afraid that it was Northern Aggression, because the North refused to surrender property that was, rightly, the South's. The government said that, if any state wished to secede due to the loss of freedoms, that state was granted the right and all military installations within the state as well as all soldiers that wished to remain were considered that state's. Buchanan refused to acknowledge this.

Funny, secession doesn't seem to be mentioned in my copy of federal law.

Funny, secession doesn't seem to be mentioned in my copy of federal law.
more specific please

nobody published anything titled "Federal Law" to my knowledge :P

Either I scared him off, or he realized his idiocy doesn't hold water. Either way...

Nah, it's because of A) I was reading another thread, and B) I have a policy of not responding to flamebait.

Nah, it's because of A) I was reading another thread, and B) I have a policy of not responding to flamebait.
again, please tell us what document you're talking about

Funny, secession doesn't seem to be mentioned in my copy of federal law.

They had to re-write much of Federal Law because of the secession. They realized America could not stand so divided and could not afford such an occurance to happen again. Personally, I believe it was just a threat to the Southern States to not try again. Either way, the ability for a state to secede is no longer legal.

again, please tell us what document you're talking about

I can't say I've seen a book called Federal Law either. I had to assume he meant the law by which our government is driven.

Maryland is either a border state, or a southern state. I think of it as a southern state, because when I went there, most of the people had at least a little bit of a southern accent. I'm all in favor of regional accents, even if really heavy southern ones annoy me, because it's an imprint of where one really comes from.

However, by no stretch of the imagination is Maryland in the DEEP south.

Oh, and to whoever made the comment about Arnold putting CA back on track... he's made it much worse. He also no longer has much political capital, as his special election turned out to be a huge defeat for him.

Yeah, "reconstuction" tends to play hell with the legal code. Now get your liberal ass outta here. We were enjoying ourselves, and you came for the purpose of disturbing the peace. Have you heard of be'en rode outta town on a rail? Nowadays it's called "moderation".

Moderation? For what? Challenging your beliefs on the "war of northern aggression"? Methinks you should grow thicker skin, comrade.

I'd like to see copies of the federal laws that allowed secession that were supposedly rewritten.

An interesting article about Southern identity: Where Is the South? (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~DRBR/REED/tears.html)

In 1981, Joel Garreau wrote an interesting book called The Nine Nations of North America (web site here (http://www.harpercollege.edu/~mhealy/g101ilec/namer/nac/nacnine/na9intro/nacninfr.htm)), which divided North America into nine regional "nations" roughly based on common culture. In his analysis, most of Maryland is (or was, in 1981) firmly in "The Foundry", which is a more polite name for the northern industrial region that many of us call the "Rust Belt". The very southern part of Maryland on the Delmarva peninsula does make its way into "Dixie", however.

It's an interesting book, if somewhat outdated. Although I note that the "Red State/Blue State" divide does almost match up with some of his regional boundaries, with "New England", "The Foundry", and "Ecotopia" largely being "Blue", while "Dixie", "The Breadbasket", "The Empty Quarter", and "MexAmerica" are largely "Red".

Interestingly, the only one of the "nine nations" that followed any legally established borders was Quebec. And I can make arguments against that. :p

Moderation? For what? Challenging your beliefs on the "war of northern aggression"? Methinks you should grow thicker skin, comrade.

Not for challenging my beliefs, but coming to an area were it is obvious that "The of Northern Aggression" is an accepted phrase, an challenging it, instead pf reading the many posts that already show supporting evidence. Your post was fairly obvious trolling.

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Did you even realize what "rubber" is common slang for?!?!?!?
Secondly, They are plants, placED in pots, thus POTTED plants. And the south seems to use coke or soda, depending on the state, or region.

Common slang for Americans maybe, but I'm not American. :p

And plants are placed in pots, indeed - therefore in Australia we call them pot plants. :) If someone is drunk, we say they're 'potted', therefore so far as I'm concerned when I hear an American refer to a "potted plant" I think it's had a bit too much to drink.

It's all a matter of what terms you've grown up with. Are you assuming that everyone in the world has to use exactly the same terms for things as you?

My American husband refers to our relationship as "joined by love but divided by a common language". I could go on for ages about biscuits vs cookies/crackers, aluminium (spelled with an 'i', dammit), the way you guys pronounce oregano (believe it or not, fellow Aussies, they place the emphasis on the 'e', so it sounds like or-EH-geh-no :rolleyes:), and so on.

Not everyoe has to talk just like you, CEOs.

Not everyoe has to talk just like you, CEOs.
I'm not saying you have to "tok" like me (I wouldn't recommend it. It's just not a good idea), I'm providing justification for the odd way Southerners speak. Sorry if I came off that way.

Side Note: Or-eh-ga-no or not, I still have to dish out 70lbs of noodles and 65lbs of my carfully crafted tomato sauce at my family reunion (an average of 130-180 people can meet there each year.)

I'm not saying you have to "tok" like me (I wouldn't recommend it. It's just not a good idea), I'm providing justification for the odd way Southerners speak. Sorry if I came off that way.

Well, no worries, then. :) And although I steadfastly hold to my way of pronouncing words I've grown up with, I do make accommodations for placenames.

Before I met my hubby I pronounced Maryland as Mary Land. Now I know (and say) it as Meril'nd. After some discussion about the singer David Bowie, and Bowie knives, I also accepted that the town here that's spelled Bowie is pronounced "Boo-ey". I still refuse to call Bowie knives "Boo-ey" knives, though, whatever my husband says. ;)

Well, no worries, then. :) And although I steadfastly hold to my way of pronouncing words I've grown up with, I do make accommodations for placenames.

Before I met my hubby I pronounced Maryland as Mary Land. Now I know (and say) it as Meril'nd. After some discussion about the singer David Bowie, and Bowie knives, I also accepted that the town here that's spelled Bowie is pronounced "Boo-ey". I still refuse to call Bowie knives "Boo-ey" knives, though, whatever my husband says. ;)

Heh, why call'em Bowie knives in the first place? I've always liked the sound of "Tennesee Toothpick" myself.

I'd like to see copies of the federal laws that allowed secession that were supposedly rewritten.

Good luck.
Finding stuff like that is rather hard. It was written in the original Articles of Federation, but they carried it over to US Law because it protected States' freedoms. As in, the reason America was founded was to protect us from tyranny. The primary philosophy was, if you don't like it... you should be allowed to leave. The North had turned into a proverbial King George and was forcing the South to go bankrupt, therefore being tyrannical. Under American law the Southern States each had right to secede. That is why, upon hearing that South Carolina seceded, the rest of the US didn't just crush it. It was legal. The only action that became illegal was President Buchanan's refusal to remove the troops in Fort Sumter. That's largely why the rest of the States seceded. The start of the war could be considered the altercation at Fort Sumter, however that was an invasion in that... the CSA owned the fort, but the USA didn't give it up. Or the first altercation could be considered the Battle at Bull Run, which was a Northern offensive.

Thus... War of Northern Agression.

Here, I'll solve the problem for you.

Alabama, et al are the Deep South.

Maryland, et al are the Shallow South.

In Dixie's land I'll make my stand, amen.

An interesting article about Southern identity: Where Is the South? (http://xroads.virginia.edu/~DRBR/REED/tears.html)
I like this part: "where people are likely to say that they like to hear Southern accents, prefer Southern food, and believe that Southern women are better looking than other women."

:D

Heh, why call'em Bowie knives in the first place? I've always liked the sound of "Tennesee Toothpick" myself.
Lord have mercy! I haven't heard that "Tennessee Toothpick" name in a coon's age! :D

Good luck.
Finding stuff like that is rather hard. It was written in the original Articles of Federation, but they carried it over to US Law because it protected States' freedoms. As in, the reason America was founded was to protect us from tyranny. The primary philosophy was, if you don't like it... you should be allowed to leave. The North had turned into a proverbial King George and was forcing the South to go bankrupt, therefore being tyrannical. Under American law the Southern States each had right to secede. That is why, upon hearing that South Carolina seceded, the rest of the US didn't just crush it. It was legal. The only action that became illegal was President Buchanan's refusal to remove the troops in Fort Sumter. That's largely why the rest of the States seceded. The start of the war could be considered the altercation at Fort Sumter, however that was an invasion in that... the CSA owned the fort, but the USA didn't give it up. Or the first altercation could be considered the Battle at Bull Run, which was a Northern offensive.

Thus... War of Northern Agression.
To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names send greeting.

Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.

Yeah. Sounds like the articles of confederation could be dissolved to me. Because that's what "perpetual" means.


That and the federal government owned fort sumter. Not South Carolina. South Carolina gave up all title and claim on the land to the federal government back in the 20's, I believe. The South attacked federal land first. It's a war of southern agression and rebellion.

Phisheads']
There is just one easy question you need to ask-
Is there an SEC school?
No.

Same reason Texas isn't part of The South.

That analogy (allegory?) doesn't work as Texas is most definitely part of the South.

I was born in Texas but raised in Denver, and my parents were of Union stock, but my Grandparents, although Yankees, died in Florida.

The South is a state of mind, if you don't live there, it's not a state of my mind however.

Lord have mercy! I haven't heard that "Tennessee Toothpick" name in a coon's age! :D
Yeah, well, I kinda worshipped Bowie from age 6-10. You probably won't hear the "Toothpick" moniker very often now that he's become a nameless death in a war to further American Imperialism:rolleyes:.

Yeah. Sounds like the articles of confederation could be dissolved to me. Because that's what "perpetual" means.


That and the federal government owned fort sumter. Not South Carolina. South Carolina gave up all title and claim on the land to the federal government back in the 20's, I believe. The South attacked federal land first. It's a war of southern agression and rebellion.

The Southern argument was based on the Declaration of Independence, whereby the Colonies separated themselves from the British, by way of saying that the government is of the people, and should the government become oppressive, tyranical, etc., then the people have a right to slough off that government and create a new one. Which is exactly what the Colonists did, and what the Southerners did.

The Southern argument was based on the Declaration of Independence, whereby the Colonies separated themselves from the British, by way of saying that the government is of the people, and should the government become oppressive, tyranical, etc., then the people have a right to slough off that government and create a new one. Which is exactly what the Colonists did, and what the Southerners did.


Yeah, the US government was so tyrannical and oppressive. Please. They entered into a perpetual union, and then compounding insult upon injury, they attacked federal land. They deserved to get their ass kicked.

It is a question that has been bugging me since forever. You see, I live in Maryland and me and my friends have always debated whether or not our state is part of the South. Some people claim that the South is anything below the Mason-Dixon line, but Maryland was a Union state during the civil war. However, Maryland was still a slave state.
I certainly don't feel like a southerner but there are some people in my area who do. What do you think?

Maryland is classified as a Southern state. It remained in the Union as Lincoln had the state legislature arrested and detained for the duration of the war so as they could not vote to leave the USA to join the CSA.

Yeah, the US government was so tyrannical and oppressive. Please. They entered into a perpetual union, and then compounding insult upon injury, they attacked federal land. They deserved to get their ass kicked.

Last time I checked, we did some pretty good damage casualty wise to the North.

Last time I checked, we did some pretty good damage casualty wise to the North.
And you got what out of it? Nothing. You lost. Badly. You, quite frankly, got your ass kicked.

And you got what out of it? Nothing. You lost. Badly. You, quite frankly, got your ass kicked.

Hey, just wait... We've got one of us in the Presidency...

I'm watchin' Gone with the Wind.

Such a sad movie.

Hey, just wait... We've got one of us in the Presidency...
One of you? Bush? HAHAHA. He's from the north, in case you didn't know.

One of you? Bush? HAHAHA. He's from the north, in case you didn't know.

Dodn't mattah. He's one of us, and you ain't gonna tell me nothin' else.

In Illinois, alot of people think the South begins 2 hours south of Chicago.

I simply believe that the south is the region of the united states where most of the people share the same DNA.

In Illinois, alot of people think the South begins 2 hours south of Chicago.

I simply believe that the south is the region of the united states where most of the people share the same DNA.

I find that offensive. My family has always married outside of cousins.

I find that offensive. My family has always married outside of cousins.

Oh, come on. That's another thing about southerners. You have a great sense of humor as long as you're not the butt of a joke.

Hey, just wait... We've got one of us in the Presidency...

If I was from the south, I'd be very irritated that Bush was also from the south (though his dad was from Mass.) and would prefer a more well-spoken and less embarrassing representative.

Same as the fact that, being I'm a Californian, I am very embarrassed that Arnold is our "goobernator".

I've never considered Maryland to be southern. A blue state that was part of the union just doesnt say south to me.

I would consider the south anything east of Kansas, Nebraska and that area, yet south of Maryland, and Ohio.

Oh, come on. That's another thing about southerners. You have a great sense of humor as long as you're not the butt of a joke.

Ha ha. I'm of Southern Stock, and I can take a joke. You can go back and read my Southern Pedigree, if you wish...

Besides, that guy made the first joke...

I have spent tons of time in Maryland, as my aunt lives in Silver Spring, and I don't view it as southern. I was a little shocked that the moment I crossed the line into VA on the Delmarva peninsula I was greeted by a GIGANTIC confederate flag. Anyhow, no, Maryland is definitely not a southern state. Maybe a border, but on the other hand people I have known in Maryland seem fairly northern.

I certainly don't feel like a southerner but there are some people in my area who do. What do you think?
You're all southerners as far as I'm concerned. Y'know, living north of all you like I do. Living in Canada. Yeah. Just saying.

In Canada.

You're all southerners as far as I'm concerned. Y'know, living north of all you like I do. Living in Canada. Yeah. Just saying.

In Canada.


It's a shame that we couldn't take Canada during the War of 1812...

It's a shame that we couldn't take Canada during the War of 1812...

Yeah, but who'd want it? They're under 12 feet of snow every winter. And Canada's full of Canucks. :D

One of you? Bush? HAHAHA. He's from the north, in case you didn't know.
He's one of us. He was born elsewhere but I think he was about three or four when his father moved here to make fortune in the oil business.

That analogy (allegory?) doesn't work as Texas is most definitely part of the South.

I was born in Texas but raised in Denver, and my parents were of Union stock, but my Grandparents, although Yankees, died in Florida.

The South is a state of mind, if you don't live there, it's not a state of my mind however.

Okay, first off - Texas is in the south, I'll give you that. However, it is not The South. When someone refers to The South, they are reffering to the southeast, the southwest is an entirely different animal. The southwest and the southeast are two entirely different cultures. Ex. BBQ Pork vs. BBQ Beef. Blues, Jazz, and Bluegrass vs. Country music. Its not the heat, its the humidity. Magnolia trees vs. Cacti. And, well not to sound insensitive, Hispanics vs. African Americans. Different cultural influences resulting from slavery, geographic regions, and main industries.

If I was from the south, I'd be very irritated that Bush was also from the south (though his dad was from Mass.) and would prefer a more well-spoken and less embarrassing representative.

Same as the fact that, being I'm a Californian, I am very embarrassed that Arnold is our "goobernator".
I have the same trouble speaking as Bush does. I manipulated Texas homeschool
and college entry laws to enter college at the age of 13 (I actually entered college about two months after my birthday). I kept 4.0 for a year-and-a-half. ( I'm not very good at spanish. Every other class was electronic hardware, software and theory.)
I'm proud to have somone as intelligent and well spoken as President Bush represent my region. (my state incidently) You should be ashamed of how you feel about having an immigrant leading your state.

My fiance is a Marylander too, so from what I understand...

1) You are south of Mason-Dixon -- 1 count for Southern.
2) You were a Union state -- 1 count for Northern.
3) You were a Union state at gunpoint -- 1 count for Southern.
4) States further south (like Virginia) consider you Northern. -- 1 count for northern.
5) States further north of you (like Delaware) consider you Southern. -- 1 count for Southern... 3-2, Southern wins....


I just count you guys as American, and mourn that you've got DC smack between you and Virginia. Who needs that many politicians in close proximity? ;)

I know what you're saying. If DC got nuked, even though I have relatives there, I wouldn't shed a tear.

I know what you're saying. If DC got nuked, even though I have relatives there, I wouldn't shed a tear.

Don't twist his words. That's not what he said and you know it.


__________________
Is this for real? (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-turkey22nov22,0,1828519.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews):confused:

You should be ashamed of how you feel about having an immigrant leading your state.

I wouldn't have a problem with an immigrant leading my state at all if he actually knew how to run it. Arnold doesn't. He's no better than Davis, and is probably worse. All his speeches are attempts to be macho. I mean, what the hell kind of guy says he kicks nurses' butts? All his speeches are like that, and all he does is say "I will do this," "I will solve the problems," but he never says how, and he hasn't done anything. He calls his political opponents "girly-men." How am I supposed to respect that?

As for Bush, he is a skilled politician, but a poor leader. Lyndon B. Johnson, except for the Vietnam War, was a politician who made a decent president. However, there's never been a decent president from California. So I guess it's a moot point. But that's not what this thread is about.

But that's not what this thread is about.
Agreed, lets not get off-topic.