NationStates Jolt Archive

If people believe that religion is a set of rules keeping them from doing things they desire to do, then what is religion?

If people believe that their religion is right or true, but do not follow its teachings, then what is religion?

Now I've always thought that a religion needs to be have rules because I believe that there is right and wrong and there is one truth - that's just me so don't criticize.

As a relult I believe that in order to have religion without being a hypocrite you need to fully understand and adopt it's principles for yourself, you cannot just be told you need to really believe that's the way it is and that's how it should be.

Oddly enough modern religion seems more than a business than anything else, too many people go to church because it looks good in the eyes of others, and too many preachers are more concerned about how much money their raking in from the congregation than about the welfare of the congregation. (See American Dad for an extreme example, that's a great show)

I think that true religion is not "religion" in the modern sense at all, but it's a lifestyle. It's a total concentration of one's self on specific principles and morals that one does not back down from without betraying oneself. Religion should represent your lifestyle, not just your "beliefs."

So that's my two cents on the problem of religion, anybody else have some thoughts?

Well, a lot of people I know seem to pay lipservice to religion. They go to church on Sunday, but then they listen to music that strikes me as rather hard to reconsile with their stated beliefs and so on. Then again, some other people seem intent on foisting their religion on others even if that means teaching intelligent falling instead of gravity...

I think you are confusing religion with spirituality. Religion is an organized method for spiritualty used by people who share common beliefs.

Or better put from my brother "Spiritually is for God (feel free to insert your chosen Diety here), Religion is for man."

A religious man is a person who holds God and man in one thought at one time, at all times, who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair.

Abandoned? :p

Man is in the highest degree of materiality, and at the beginning of spirituality -- that is to say, he is the end of imperfection and the beginning of perfection. He is at the last degree of darkness, and at the beginning of light; that is why it has been said that the condition of man is the end of the night and the beginning of day, meaning that he is the sum of all the degrees of imperfection, and that he possesses the degrees of perfection. He has the animal side as well as the angelic side, and the aim of an educator is to so train human souls that their angelic aspect may overcome their animal side. Then if the divine power in man, which is his essential perfection, overcomes the satanic power, which is absolute imperfection, he becomes the most excellent among the creatures; but if the satanic power overcomes the divine power, he becomes the lowest of the creatures. That is why he is the end of imperfection and the beginning of perfection. Not in any other of the species in the world of existence is there such a difference, contrast, contradiction and opposition as in the species of man.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 235)

Oddly enough modern religion seems more than a business than anything else, too many people go to church because it looks good in the eyes of others, and too many preachers are more concerned about how much money their raking in from the congregation than about the welfare of the congregation. (See American Dad for an extreme example, that's a great show)
You seem to be of a grave misunderstanding. Modern Religion isn't a business, All Religion is a business. Its a tool for bringing power to the Priests/Witch Doctors/Rabbis/Mullahs/Whoever else reads the Holy books, when that person has little or no merit to attain power in any other way.

Just my personal opinion, but I find the definition of religion to be incredibly subjective. People who try too hard to define religion as a certain set of ideas are trying to, in effect, segment the human intellect. To me ideas are ideas, and they have a tremendous ability to stir the hearts and minds of man, regardless of what they are. I lay it all at the feet of "what people believe" (and you don't have to spend too long on the internet to know that there are people who can and will believe virtually anything, religious and non-religious alike).

"What Should Religion Be?"

Seen but not heard.

You seem to be of a grave misunderstanding. Modern Religion isn't a business, All Religion is a business. Its a tool for bringing power to the Priests/Witch Doctors/Rabbis/Mullahs/Whoever else reads the Holy books, when that person has little or no merit to attain power in any other way.

Then how do you explain Wicca which has no central power base and probably has more solitary practitioners than covens?

"What Should Religion Be?"

Seen but not heard.
I'd rather only have to smell it.

Then how do you explain Wicca which has no central power base and probably has more solitary practitioners than covens?
Social symbol among practitioners, lets people with no outstanding worth feel special, magick is always good for a laught, rebelling against conventions, spirituality cop-out, etc, etc, etc
And the origins of Wicca can be (somewhat) traced back to the people who first thought it up. Can you guess how much sex the Priest of a Fertility God gets?
No one makes up stories without getting something out of it for themselves.

So that's my two cents on the problem of religion, anybody else have some thoughts?

Well, my mother is Christian and my father is Hindu, and this is the way that I felt, surrounded by Gandhi and Jesus:

Religion is a personal connection between yourself and god. The only way to really get that personal connection is to express it any way you desire. Religion shouldn't be interpreted as strict guidlines that will decree your fate when you die, but rather a celebration of life and the human experience. That being said, as a human, you should always try to do more for your fellow man. But never force him to change his religion or change his way.

Cultural and religious diversity are a way to show a creator's success. As a painter, would you want every painting to be the same? Of course not.

I'd rather only have to smell it.
NAW bad smells make me irratable and sometimes nausious

NAW bad smells make me irratable and sometimes nausious
Who the hell are YOU trying to kid? Hell, boy, some of the posts on here make you nauseous! :D

Well, my mother is Christian and my father is Hindu, and this is the way that I felt, surrounded by Gandhi and Jesus:

Religion is a personal connection between yourself and god. The only way to really get that personal connection is to express it any way you desire. Religion shouldn't be interpreted as strict guidlines that will decree your fate when you die, but rather a celebration of life and the human experience. That being said, as a human, you should always try to do more for your fellow man. But never force him to change his religion or change his way.

Cultural and religious diversity are a way to show a creator's success. As a painter, would you want every painting to be the same? Of course not.
Well said! Well said, indeed. :)

Who the hell are YOU trying to kid? Hell, boy, some of the posts on here make you nauseous! :D
True that lol

And I was kidding about the smells

I worked in housekeeping in a nursing home for 4 years ... not much bothers me anymore lol

Religion should burn:)

Religion shouldn't be. Religion was originally formed not from the agreed mentality of the many, but from the few who could see its ability to control. Spirituality is the correct alternative because it can be practiced as it should be practiced; by the individual and according to the individual's beliefs about him/herself and the world he or she lives in. IF that belief is dependant on there being a God or a multitude of gods, then that's what works for that person. If the individual's belief system is such that there is no deity of any kind, then that's what works for that person.

Religion, per se, is something that is defined by one, or by a few, for the masses of followers to ... well, follow. Spirituality is defined by one, for that one to live, and no one else.

The latter of the two sounds much more logical, and powerful, on many more levels to me.

:cool:

True that lol

And I was kidding about the smells

I worked in housekeeping in a nursing home for 4 years ... not much bothers me anymore lol
Ewwww! So you already know why old farts like me would rather die at home! :D

Ewwww! So you already know why old farts like me would rather die at home! :D
Lol well I would not mind the floor I used to work on ... alzhimers

AT that point they are usualy beyond home care ability ...

But we have a range of facilities from assisted living apartments to you name it

Religion I see is a lose collection of ideas that are coupled together until a particular title; for me, I don't want a religion as some sort of dictatorship over my life; I want it as like a reference book - something that can help me, rather than condemn me.

Hence the reason I have left mainstream religions, I'm sick and tired of my homosexuality becoming the mainfactor as to whether I am 'saved' or 'reborn' - for me, I believe in a fusion of Deism and Buddhism; and for, its not what everyone elses follows, but it does address the needs and helps me get through life.

So religion is a tool, used by few to control many. Spirituality is different. One would like to think that these would be one in the same. Maybe they should be.

Christ taught that no man is greater than his God as he washed the Apostles feet at the last supper. He is the founder of Christianity, which is a religion.

If religion is only there so one can get gain over others, what did Christ gain? Nothing. The Son of Man had no place to lay his head.

This is so different from modern Christianity, for the most part, that it's sickening.

So let's say Christianity in some form is true. I say some form because we've got all these different denominations and non-denominations that all teach different things (which in itself in a fallicy, but lets not go there). In that case, who teaches what Christ taught? Where is all that? Where is the lack of materialism, where is the selflessness? Well I'll tell you where it's not.

It's not in today's society.

If Christians followed Christ the Crusades never would have happened. I really never could imagine Christ saying "Now my people go slaughter the heathens!" It just doesn't fit. Christ taught love for all and tolerance, but he also taught principles to be followed to attain salvation.

By the way, anyone who says that all you have to do is "believe" in Christ to be saved is lying. Why would Christ teach principles if you weren't meant to follow them? I really don't think they were just suggestions. Anyway...

The fact is people don't want to do what Christ said because it's hard. Love thine enemy? That's hard man. But, that takes us into repentance and doing your best and all that.

Religion is easy, Spirituality is hard.
Religion is worldly, Spirituality is of God.
Religion is for personal gain, Spiritality is selfless.

What a world, eh? Talk about apostasy.

So religion is a tool, used by few to control many. Spirituality is different. One would like to think that these would be one in the same. Maybe they should be.
Religion need not be a tool. If a like-minded community of believers wishes to get together and worship their deity in a particular way, I don't think that qualifies as using a tool to control people.
Christ taught that no man is greater than his God as he washed the Apostles feet at the last supper. He is the founder of Christianity, which is a religion.
Yes, and yes.
If religion is only there so one can get gain over others, what did Christ gain? Nothing. The Son of Man had no place to lay his head.

This is so different from modern Christianity, for the most part, that it's sickening.
Again, not necessarily. There are many Christians and many Christian communities for whom this is not the case. Just because the Phelpses and Robertsons and Fallwells and televangelists of the world seem to act this way on a consistent basis, that doesn't make it true for the entire body of believers.
So let's say Christianity in some form is true. I say some form because we've got all these different denominations and non-denominations that all teach different things (which in itself in a fallicy, but lets not go there). In that case, who teaches what Christ taught? Where is all that? Where is the lack of materialism, where is the selflessness? Well I'll tell you where it's not.

It's not in today's society.
I agree with you on this, albeit with a caveat: We live a material existence. We need material things. Christ understands this. Materialism, in that sense, is okay. We need food, we need shelter, we need clothing. These things are alright to possess. It's when possession becomes what drives your life--when your things own you instead of you owning them--that it becomes sinful.
If Christians followed Christ the Crusades never would have happened. I really never could imagine Christ saying "Now my people go slaughter the heathens!" It just doesn't fit. Christ taught love for all and tolerance, but he also taught principles to be followed to attain salvation.

By the way, anyone who says that all you have to do is "believe" in Christ to be saved is lying. Why would Christ teach principles if you weren't meant to follow them? I really don't think they were just suggestions. Anyway...
I agree that if Christians had focused more on following the example of Christ then blights on Christian history like the Crusades and Inquisition would not have happened, but the Bible does say that salvation comes through faith alone.
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Now, a life surrendered to Christ should exhibit changes--bearing fruit, the Bible calls it--and claiming to have faith in Christ does not excuse horrible actions, but true faith is all that is needed to secure salvation.
The fact is people don't want to do what Christ said because it's hard. Love thine enemy? That's hard man. But, that takes us into repentance and doing your best and all that.

Religion is easy, Spirituality is hard.
Religion is worldly, Spirituality is of God.
Religion is for personal gain, Spiritality is selfless.

What a world, eh? Talk about apostasy.
Living like Christ is hard. So hard that we can't do it on our own. Enter the Holy Spirit.
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

The problem is everyone overanalyzes and overemphasizes religion. Religion is simply what you believe to be true, and the morals and guidelines you hold to be highest. If there is no religion that agrees with your personal beliefs, then don't join one, or drop out of yours. Just be who you want to be, and leave everyone else the hell alone. We don't care if you're a neo-nazi ultra conservative christian. It's your right to do so if you believe it is your path. Just don't try to shove it down anyone else's throat. Oh and NEVER try to ban anything if you don't like angry mobs. in short, believe what you want, don't bother others, and live what you consider to be a good life. this my friends is the secret to happiness.

A religious man is a person who holds God and man in one thought at one time, at all times, who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair.
Apart from the first sentence, this desrcibes many Atheists too. Caring, compassion, love etc are not religious characteristics- they are human attributes, held (or not held) in equal measure by believers and non-believers alike.