NationStates Jolt Archive

This is perhaps the saddest post I've ever made. It is a realization that I have fought tooth and nail. It has been a thought that I've been fighting since I've been old enough to have thoughts.

Violence will never be defeated by peace. It is impossible. The pen is only mightier than the sword because the pen can influence those who wield the Nuclear Bomb.

You can never extinguish hate from the heart of man. Neither party in America holds the title of most hateful party. No country holds the title of least hateful citizens.

Imagine this scenario. A genie grants someone a thousand years of peace on earth. After a thousand years, the wish is at an end. The world has been at peace, but the magic holding it together dies.

A neighbor see's that a limb from his neighbors tree is on his side of the line. He asked that it be removed. The other neighbor values the limb over the neighbors wish that it be removed.

Words are exchanged, anger rises. Words turn to shoves. Shoves to blows. The weaker of the two grabs a knife. Blood is shed. Neighbors divide into sides. Protests begin. Protests turn to Mass Marches. Mass Marches turn to riots. Violence ensues.

Some people call for peace. Those who disagree decide to strike at their governments.

7:24 am - A bomb goes off. The world wakes up to death and destruction on their TVs. The world is back to where it is.

Why is it that so many believe that peace is the only way, when it has been proven though out the ages, time and time again, that though it is a noble dream, and a just goal, it has been shown through the ways of man that it is an impossibility?

Why is violence against those who seek to hurt us wrong, when history has shown that there just isn't any other way?



EDIT Any mention of the Hornet in my posts are a result of my lack of sleep at the time. I meant Raptor.

This is the most inspired message I have read in a long time. I fully agree, peace is but a fool's dream. You, my friend, I have to applaud. As was said centuries ago, si vis pacem, para bellum. (if you dont know latin it means if you want peace, prepare for war.)

This is the most inspired message I have read in a long time. I fully agree, peace is but a fool's dream. You, my friend, I have to applaud. As was said centuries ago, si vis pacem, para bellum. (if you dont know latin it means if you want peace, prepare for war.)
I believe Metallica said the same in "Don't tread on me" ;)

And thank you. I wonder how many can read what I have written and see how badly I yearn for peace.

This is perhaps the saddest post I've ever made. It is a realization that I have fought tooth and nail. It has been a thought that I've been fighting since I've been old enough to have thoughts.

Violence will never be defeated by peace. It is impossible. The pen is only mightier than the sword because the pen can influence those who wield the Nuclear Bomb.


Why is violence against those who seek to hurt us wrong, when history has shown that there just isn't any other way?

It is the nature of man and all other forms of life to ensure their survival. Even those that are best with the pen are in their own way trying to find a way to dominate those around them, with different tools of course but every bit as effective and deadly. History also teaches us that civilizations that lose the will to fight, die of social rot. Those that maintain that will, continue to thrive. A thousand years of peace is impossible to achieve even if there were a way to grant it, there would be those that lower the bar as to what constitutes aggression. It's not sad, it's life and some things in life just suck. Personally, I would choose to enjoy the fight and not waste away worrying about the things that cannot be changed.

. Personally, I would choose to enjoy the fight and not waste away worrying about the things that cannot be changed.
It seems people on this forum call you a dick waving jingoist for even suggesting that as an option. For example, I am infatuated with the new F/A-22 Raptors., but to say it out loud means that I enjoy killing babies apparently.

Which just proves my point.

This brings up another point. Some people say I am too violent sometimes. It's true. But not because I want to hurt innocent people, but because I recognize that the world is full of violent people, and I'd like to be better then them at it.

F/A-22 Hornets

Do they even exist? I thought they were Raptors. F/A 18 was the Hornet.

It seems people on this forum call you a dick waving jingoist for even suggesting that as an option. For example, I am infatuated with the new F/A-22 Hornets, but to say it out loud means that I enjoy killing babies apparently.

Which just proves my point.

I wouldn't even sweat that. You have to take into consideration who the majority of the members here are. The vast majority are very idealistic and very young with some very good intentions. Then there are the portion of them that use the hallowed halls of academia as a safe place to hide from reality or as a base of operations to spread their own version of domination. Then still, there is the group would actually be your enemy and realize that the previous group is simple to manipulate into doing their bidding for them. No matter where we fit in, we all have our own agendas and ideals, but in the end it all boils down to how best to ensure their survival and ability to thrive.
I say enjoy the fight because I could die tomorrow and be comfortable with it, knowing I have seen and done more in my lifetime than the average dozen could do in their's combined... and I never killed a baby, but I have saved many more than I can count. It is much better to have them hate you than it is to have them know first hand why they should love you.

Do they even exist? I thought they were Raptors. F/A 18 was the Hornet.
Nice catch! I don't believe I mixed up the two! The SuperHornets used to be my favorite, until I discovered the wonder of Thrust Vectoring and SuperCruising. Man, that jet is amazing!

Incidentilly, my wife signs her papers for the Airforce tuesday to go in as a crew cheif, and they told her most likely she'll be stationed in Cali, where the Raptors are being trained on.

That would be a hell of a treat for me!

Nice catch! I don't believe I mixed up the two! The SuperHornets used to be my favorite, until I discovered the wonder of Thrust Vectoring and SuperCruising. Man, that jet is amazing!

Incidentilly, my wife signs her papers for the Airforce tuesday to go in as a crew cheif, and they told her most likely she'll be stationed in Cali, where the Hornets are being trained on.

That would be a hell of a treat for me!

Well congratulations to her! She made a good choice. I had several friends in the Air Force when I was at Ft Bragg and seemed they were always the happiest with their chosen fields. They also have the best food (by far) with 24 hour mess halls! What a blessing on a saturday night while in garrison!

Well congratulations to her! She made a good choice. I had several friends in the Air Force when I was at Ft Bragg and seemed they were always the happiest with their chosen fields. They also have the best food (by far) with 24 hour mess halls! What a blessing on a saturday night while in garrison!
Yeah, I'm pretty damn proud of her! I'd would have joined myself seven years ago, but I only have one ear, and my spine is crooked, so I'm doomed to civy life. But it's all good, cause I'd have never met her if I'd have joined, so I guess it all worked out in the end.

Plus now I can start my own business, and I don't have to get yelled at in basic. I hate gettin yelled at! ;)


BTW Just a gut instinct, but your name wouldn't have to do with a love of deer liver, would it?

if it is true that violence will forever win out over peace, then humanity doesn't have much time left. However, I am not convinced of this, if for no other reason than the necessity of peace for survival. Look at European history, by far the bloodiest region of the world in history, up until 1945. Well, what changed in 1945? The Europeans had just nearly wiped themselves out. They realized if they continued to play their war games, next time they would succeed in destroying themselves. So when the French, Germans, and pretty much the entire population of the continent refuse to participate in illegal wars of aggression like the one in Iraq, it's because they understand the issues. Now, violence is not a part of human nature. Violence is a part of the nature of governments and the powerful. The rich and powerful want war because it is basically a subsidy from the poor to the rich. The poor pay the tax money for the war, and they are the ones who die fighting. It is the rich who get big contracts and the powerful who are handed more power. Get rid of the structures of power (corporations and governments) and violence will nearly disappear. That's not to say that everyone will always get along, but violence will be limited to pathology.

"Historically, the most terrible things--war, genocide, and slavery--have resulted not from disobedience, but from obedience." -- Howard Zinn

if it is true that violence will forever win out over peace, then humanity doesn't have much time left. However, I am not convinced of this, if for no other reason than the necessity of peace for survival. Look at European history, by far the bloodiest region of the world in history, up until 1945. Well, what changed in 1945? The Europeans had just nearly wiped themselves out. They realized if they continued to play their war games, next time they would succeed in destroying themselves. So when the French, Germans, and pretty much the entire population of the continent refuse to participate in illegal wars of aggression like the one in Iraq, it's because they understand the issues. Now, violence is not a part of human nature. Violence is a part of the nature of governments and the powerful. The rich and powerful want war because it is basically a subsidy from the poor to the rich. The poor pay the tax money for the war, and they are the ones who die fighting. It is the rich who get big contracts and the powerful who are handed more power. Get rid of the structures of power (corporations and governments) and violence will nearly disappear. That's not to say that everyone will always get along, but violence will be limited to pathology.

"Historically, the most terrible things--war, genocide, and slavery--have resulted not from disobedience, but from obedience." -- Howard Zinn
What a "quaint" view. I wonder what France thinks of your views of Europe as a bastion of peace. I'll be sure to ask them when they are done quelling the riots.

Plus now I can start my own business, and I don't have to get yelled at in basic. I hate gettin yelled at! ;)


BTW Just a gut instinct, but your name wouldn't have to do with a love of deer liver, would it?

haha I was the same way. I got over it really fast once I found out you were required to yell back, with the appropriate answer of course.

Naw, the name actually came from a game I used to play that had a huge number of males playing female roles. One of the biggest goals of the game was completing the marriage ceremony, so I had a steady flow of these dudes pretending to be female trying to talk me into teaming up with them. I liked the game, but I needed some female impersonater repellent, so LiverBreath was born. It actually worked. Those marketing and retailing classes in highschool finally paid off!

Conformity has been found to increase Suicides.
I say Conform to my banner.

Thing the first:
Here's another Latin phrase for y'all to chew on: Ius Bellum. It's a theory written by some priest named 'Thomas Aquinas'. Who, conveniently enough is also a saint. Basically the name means 'Just War'. While I would argue that humanity is the only species that is purposefully cruel towards other members of its species, it is Ius Bellum that would make-safe the world and create a world-wide 'peace'. Of course, that would require certain world leaders to have not only read it, but understood it.

Thing the second:
I would be willing to predict that there will be no major wars on earth. By major wars, I mean world powers slugging it out. The only thing that will occur is what has been happening most often for the past 500 years: larger nations imposing their will on lesser nations through military might. And lesser nations thirsting for blood and money slugging it out among each other (like in Africa and the Middle-East).
As for the peace or lack thereof in France, that's an internal affair. If similar riots were occuring in Germany, Italy, Spain, and perhaps even in the UK and Japan, then it would be a major problem. As it is, it's only a French problem. The world will be unaffected by it in the short term.

Thing the third:
F/A-18E/F Super Hornets are a waste of money. I'm sorry, but there's just something wrong with an airplane that has to be refueled immediately after take-off. With a Pentagon that claims that said aircraft, which has less payload, a lower cruising and top speed, and less then half the pay load and range of the F-14, is somehow better than the F-14. The only thing that the F/A-18E/F has the -14 beat out on is that Dick Cheney, as Secretary of the Navy under Bush the First, ordered all spare parts production for the F-14 to cease and then had the molds for them destroyed. Oops.

Just keep one thing in mind, though: The Hornet is a Navy and Marine Corps aircraft, not Air Force. The Super Hornet is going exclusively to the Navy. So I'm curious as to how your wife being in the Air Force would be related to them. Or were you referring to the Raptor?

The pen is only mightier than the sword if your opponent is literate, or willing to read.

Some people can simply not respond to arguments without violence or the demonstration of willingness to use violence.

Saddam Hussein springs to mind

What a "quaint" view. I wonder what France thinks of your views of Europe as a bastion of peace. I'll be sure to ask them when they are done quelling the riots.
Well, if that view is considered quaint, I guess your opinion is just "it's not even worth trying, so might as well be violent". That is stoopit.
60 years of peace among the big ones in Europe after more than 2000 years of bloodshed and you still don't get it - the average Joe doesn't want war and doesn't like war and as a German I might add that we learned a tough lesson.

You know, we wage war because we want to: BAD.
You wage war because you want to: GOOD.
Then, Germany not participating in it, BAD again?

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever!

The pen is only mightier than the sword if your opponent is literate, or willing to read.

Some people can simply not respond to arguments without violence or the demonstration of willingness to use violence.

Saddam Hussein springs to mind
Someone else springs to mind even before Saddam...

By the way, violence CAN be willed away - you simply have to actively veto the use of violence. Your brain is capable of that. Then again, that would imply using it ever once in a while and not simply act on instinct.

http://www.imprint.co.uk/pdf/Libet.pdf

Come on Saddam was an dictator since the 1960's. This is the problem with people these days, Bush may not be a good presedent but there are people far worse than him

Nice catch! I don't believe I mixed up the two! The SuperHornets used to be my favorite, until I discovered the wonder of Thrust Vectoring and SuperCruising. Man, that jet is amazing!

Incidentilly, my wife signs her papers for the Airforce tuesday to go in as a crew cheif, and they told her most likely she'll be stationed in Cali, where the Hornets are being trained on.

That would be a hell of a treat for me!
What air force is it that flies F-18's? That's pretty much a Navy-Marine jet in the US?

It seems people on this forum call you a dick waving jingoist for even suggesting that as an option. For example, I am infatuated with the new F/A-22 Raptors., but to say it out loud means that I enjoy killing babies apparently.

Which just proves my point.
I consider the warrior to be the ultimate realist. He knows that violence lurks inside most men, and prepares to counter it in defense of home. My only regret at having been in the military is that I didn't always do my very best.

BTW ... I love that Raptor as well. Beautiful bird, ain't she? :)

Thing the third:
F/A-18E/F Super Hornets are a waste of money. I'm sorry, but there's just something wrong with an airplane that has to be refueled immediately after take-off. With a Pentagon that claims that said aircraft, which has less payload, a lower cruising and top speed, and less then half the pay load and range of the F-14, is somehow better than the F-14. The only thing that the F/A-18E/F has the -14 beat out on is that Dick Cheney, as Secretary of the Navy under Bush the First, ordered all spare parts production for the F-14 to cease and then had the molds for them destroyed. Oops.

Just keep one thing in mind, though: The Hornet is a Navy and Marine Corps aircraft, not Air Force. The Super Hornet is going exclusively to the Navy. So I'm curious as to how your wife being in the Air Force would be related to them. Or were you referring to the Raptor?
Every afterburning aircraft that I've ever shared an airwing with has needed refueling after a cat. The only thing fighter pilots pay attention to in the briefs is where 'Texaco' is going to be after takeoff and what their Charlie time is supposed to be. On land, the only thing they worry about is what time happy hour starts.

Come on Saddam was an dictator since the 1960's. This is the problem with people these days, Bush may not be a good presedent but there are people far worse than him
No shit! People like Teddy Kennedy, Al Gore and John "seared-into-my-memory" Kerry!

What air force is it that flies F-18's? That's pretty much a Navy-Marine jet in the US?
Canada and others...

Every afterburning aircraft that I've ever shared an airwing with has needed refueling after a cat. The only thing fighter pilots pay attention to in the briefs is where 'Texaco' is going to be after takeoff and what their Charlie time is supposed to be. On land, the only thing they worry about is what time happy hour starts.
LOL! Tsk! Cappin' on the land-based are we? ;)

Personally, as an infantryman, I think the most beautiful aircraft ever made is that close-air support Warthog! :D

I consider the warrior to be the ultimate realist. He knows that violence lurks inside most men, and prepares to counter it in defense of home. My only regret at having been in the military is that I didn't always do my very best.

BTW ... I love that Raptor as well. Beautiful bird, ain't she? :)
You lived through combat. What better measure of your performance is there?

My most vivid memories of Desert Storm aren't the BDAs that I got after the mission. Targets start to blend together after a while. But the feeling you have about halfway home when the adrenaline starts to subside is what I always will associate with success.

And you're right, the Raptor is a pretty slick airplane. When I worked at Lockheed in Marietta, we had the prototypes in and out of the plant regularly. And we got up close enough to touch the planes. Once I managed to talk one of the test pilots into letting me sit in the drivers seat. Pretty nice view for a plane that does all the thinking for you.

LOL! Tsk! Cappin' on the land-based are we? ;)

Personally, as an infantryman, I think the most beautiful aircraft ever made is that close-air support Warthog! :D
Fighter pilots only have a very limited attention span. They're great to have around if there are bandits in the area, but otherwise the prima-donna attitude is hard to take.

Did you ever have A-6s do CAS for you?

You lived through combat. What better measure of your performance is there?

My most vivid memories of Desert Storm aren't the BDAs that I got after the mission. Targets start to blend together after a while. But the feeling you have about halfway home when the adrenaline starts to subside is what I always will associate with success.

And you're right, the Raptor is a pretty slick airplane. When I worked at Lockheed in Marietta, we had the prototypes in and out of the plant regularly. And we got up close enough to touch the planes. Once I managed to talk one of the test pilots into letting me sit in the drivers seat. Pretty nice view for a plane that does all the thinking for you.
Damn! I am sooo jealous! :headbang:

How does the Raptor do target acquisition? Haven't read much about that.

Success, and that incredible adrenaline rush that came with it, was when opposing force fire began to decrease to the point where it was relatively safe to move. For years and years after Vietnam, I was seeking ways to find that "rush" again ... made me do some pretty ( in retrospect ) stoopid things! Heh!

Fighter pilots only have a very limited attention span. They're great to have around if there are bandits in the area, but otherwise the prima-donna attitude is hard to take.

Did you ever have A-6s do CAS for you?
No ... those were considerably after my time. I'm an old fart, don'tcha see! :D

EDIT: Spoke too soon. No, those weren't in our AO, but I saw them in action once, I think. Sorry about that!

Damn! I am sooo jealous! :headbang:

How does the Raptor do target acquisition? Haven't read much about that.


I think it works on magic. The prototypes didn't have any of the slick systems that they worked on in the dark grey parts of the plant. If they had, I couldn't have made it into the cockpit.

All I've read makes it sound like there are several different target acquisition systems. Probably radar, IR, datalink, what else? The fusion in the cockpit is supposed to be the big improvement.

All the talk about "violence is human nature" when talking about war is bull. Yes, individual or small-scale violence may well be an unavoidable part of life, but war is not human nature. War is simply a construct of society created by whatever ruling elite is in charge at the time. There is a big difference between taking a swing at someone because you're really angry and having small groups of people direct hundreds of thousands of other people to kill hundreds and thousands of yet more people because they have a problem with a different small group of people on the other side of an imaginary line in the sand.

Honestly, it's defeatist "peace can never work" attitudes that ensure that it doesn't work.

I consider the warrior to be the ultimate realist. He knows that violence lurks inside most men, and prepares to counter it in defense of home. My only regret at having been in the military is that I didn't always do my very best.

BTW ... I love that Raptor as well. Beautiful bird, ain't she? :)

And as shocking as it may seem to some of the posters here, the military man is, in a most understanding way, the man who most truely hates warfare.

:(

And as shocking as it may seem to some of the posters here, the military man is, in a most understanding way, the man who most truely hates warfare.
True. Although war is the ultimate test of the warrior's expertise, professionalism and training, the true warrior prays for peace even as he trains for war. The ultimate agony is to watch your best friend die from wounds and be unable to do anything about it.

I think General Robert E. Lee summed it up quite well with a comment he made while watching an attack by a Texas brigade under General Stonewall Jackson ( if memory serves me correctly ): "It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it."

(...)
Honestly, it's defeatist "peace can never work" attitudes that ensure that it doesn't work.
Thanks for saving my day.

LOL! Tsk! Cappin' on the land-based are we? ;)

Personally, as an infantryman, I think the most beautiful aircraft ever made is that close-air support Warthog! :D

Ah we do agree on that. There was never a more beautiful sight than to look up and see one of them suddenly open up on the dead space in front of you. You can't even hear them coming until they cross your line. I will take a bird that can hang till the battles over anyday.

Why is violence against those who seek to hurt us wrong, when history has shown that there just isn't any other way?

History has been proven time and time again to be wrong. Things we did 200 years ago are not the things we do today because we learn from history ... or did you think we should still have slaves and drink sulfur water for a cough?

The day people like you, as well as those who think like you, realise that violence being met with violence solves nothing (or did you not notice the almost 3 year old war we're in now, which we were all told would end in a few weeks) then the world will be a better place.

By all means, though, keep thinking violence is an answer. I'll wait ... someday your head will come out of the clouds.

All the talk about "violence is human nature" when talking about war is bull.

What is bull is that you have been taught to believe that man is bigger and above the competitive nature of survival. The scale of organization is irrelevant, and if all the evil governments and corporations were eliminated today, they would simply re-form. People will naturally tend to band together in smaller groups to ensure their survival. Some will be groups of pacifists such as yourself who would not defend themselves until they were met with slaughter. Others will be predatory and ensure their survival by raiding groups of your kind. The cycle goes on as it has all through history. The groups will absorb one another and grow into larger better organized units until groups of the weak become the dominate group at which time the larger whole begins to rot and die from its own lack of willingness to survive.

No matter how you try and place yourself on a pedestal as above it all, the one thing that remains true, is the fact that to realize your pacifistic goals you must become that which campaign against.

As long as there are two men on earth. The will find a way to fight. The key to surviving is avoiding the crossfire and keeping a straight face when you tell the victor you were on his side all the time.

This is perhaps the saddest post I've ever made. It is a realization that I have fought tooth and nail. It has been a thought that I've been fighting since I've been old enough to have thoughts.

Violence will never be defeated by peace. It is impossible. The pen is only mightier than the sword because the pen can influence those who wield the Nuclear Bomb.

You can never extinguish hate from the heart of man. Neither party in America holds the title of most hateful party. No country holds the title of least hateful citizens.

Imagine this scenario. A genie grants someone a thousand years of peace on earth. After a thousand years, the wish is at an end. The world has been at peace, but the magic holding it together dies.

A neighbor see's that a limb from his neighbors tree is on his side of the line. He asked that it be removed. The other neighbor values the limb over the neighbors wish that it be removed.

Words are exchanged, anger rises. Words turn to shoves. Shoves to blows. The weaker of the two grabs a knife. Blood is shed. Neighbors divide into sides. Protests begin. Protests turn to Mass Marches. Mass Marches turn to riots. Violence ensues.

Some people call for peace. Those who disagree decide to strike at their governments.

7:24 am - A bomb goes off. The world wakes up to death and destruction on their TVs. The world is back to where it is.

Why is it that so many believe that peace is the only way, when it has been proven though out the ages, time and time again, that though it is a noble dream, and a just goal, it has been shown through the ways of man that it is an impossibility?

Why is violence against those who seek to hurt us wrong, when history has shown that there just isn't any other way?



You assume that in 1000 years mankind will be exactly the same as it is now,and that those 1000 years will just be spent sitting around,enjoying peace.when its far more likely we'll be worrying about what will happen when those 1000 years are up,and doing our best to make sure peace endures.

Ive seen countless posts talking about my views on war, but it's kinda funny because I've read my OP several times, and I don't see where I mentioned was as the premise for the post.

I am speaking of the natural fight or flight instinct that is alive inside us all. And some will always fight. That's all I meant. Of course theres ways to stop war. One world government. But stopping violence? A pipe dream by the pacifists who don't have a grasp on reality.

I am speaking of the natural fight or flight instinct that is alive inside us all.

It has been proven that "Fight or Flight" only exists in men, so you've just alienated 52% of the world's population with that one sentence. Congrats.

The quickest way to a man's heart is with Chuck Norris's fist.

The quickest way to a man's heart is with Chuck Norris's fist.

Actually I think you'll find it's through the ribcage.

It has been proven that "Fight or Flight" only exists in men, so you've just alienated 52% of the world's population with that one sentence. Congrats.
Do you have a point?

EDIT- And by the way, it most certainly HAS NOT been proven that ALL women don't have fight or flight, just that it is more prevalent in men, so you've just lumped all women into one mold with one sentence. Congrats.

Proven where?

American Journal of Psychology, November 2003, Behavioral Neuroscience. Tend or Befriend is the female equivalent.

I guess there's no real proof as Psychology is not a science, but ... well ... you know.

EDIT- And by the way, it most certainly HAS NOT been proven that ALL women don't have fight or flight, just that it is more prevailant in men, so you've just lumped all women into one mold with one sentence. Congrats.

See? We can all do it! :p

American Journal of Psychology, November 2003, Behavioral Neuroscience. Tend or Befriend is the female equivalent.

I guess there's no real proof as Psychology is not a science, but ... well ... you know.
I personally question that study, due to the fact that they look at it form the point of view of how people handle stress over long periods of time.

Fight or flight is caused by a drastic rise in adrenaline, which both men and women have, and though men and women do handle things differently over long periods of time, instantaneous responses to danger are ussually the same.

Fight like hell, or run as fast as you can.

See? We can all do it! :p
Hey now! I am most certainly better at making an ass of myself than you, so there! *sticks tongue out*

I personally question that study, due to the fact that they look at it form the point of view of how people handle stress over long periods of time.

That's why Psychology is not a science. There's really no way to quantify the human response. I, for example, have never witnessed in myself any form of fight, flight, tend, or befriend.

Then again, I've never really seen stress within myself. *shrug*

It's fun to talk about, though.

History has been proven time and time again to be wrong. Things we did 200 years ago are not the things we do today because we learn from history ... or did you think we should still have slaves and drink sulfur water for a cough?

The day people like you, as well as those who think like you, realise that violence being met with violence solves nothing (or did you not notice the almost 3 year old war we're in now, which we were all told would end in a few weeks) then the world will be a better place.

By all means, though, keep thinking violence is an answer. I'll wait ... someday your head will come out of the clouds.
IMHO, it's people who think that violence is never an answer who pose the greatest risk in the real world. Yes, things change. Yes, people change, although much more slowly than I would like. But one thing remains the same: there are those who are going to resort to violence, regardless of how much your good thoughts would like to redeem them. The hearts of men must change before violence ceases to be a valid option. Until then there will always be need for those willing to risk everything by opposing the violent with whatever means are at hand.

It has been proven that "Fight or Flight" only exists in men, so you've just alienated 52% of the world's population with that one sentence. Congrats.

That's the silliest thing I have ever seen anyone post. No such thing has ever been proven, and the fact is it can be found in many different species. You just have to stop living in the fog of theroy and look around at what is real.

I take it back. There is just too much silly stuff posted here to qualify that as among them...but it's way up there!

That's why Psychology is not a science. There's really no way to quantify the human response. I, for example, have never witnessed in myself any form of fight, flight, tend, or befriend.

Then again, I've never really seen stress within myself. *shrug*

It's fun to talk about, though.
You've never been startled? That feeling right there is fight or flight. Thats why I don't really like that study you sited. Fight or flight is usually associated with an instantaneous response, not a long term one.




BTW, just a little funny, my spell check keeps telling me to change your name to "gravel" :D

It has been proven that "Fight or Flight" only exists in men, so you've just alienated 52% of the world's population with that one sentence. Congrats.
Some sort of substantiation of this allegation would be nice, don't you think? :)

IMHO, it's people who think that violence is never an answer who pose the greatest risk in the real world. Yes, things change. Yes, people change, although much more slowly than I would like. But one thing remains the same: there are those who are going to resort to violence, regardless of how much your good thoughts would like to redeem them. The hearts of men must change before violence ceases to be a valid option. Until then there will always be need for those willing to risk everything by opposing the violent with whatever means are at hand.
Thats the basic point I was trying to make. You can strive your entire life to be a good and peaceful person, but it won't stop some asshole in a bar from taking a swing at you because his girlfriend smiled at you.

If you want to survive among the human species, you better be ready to swing back, or you'll find yourself on the floor.

Fight like hell, or run as fast as you can.
Ever see a mother defend her child? If that's not "fight," then I don't know what is! :D

Hey now! I am most certainly better at making an ass of myself than you, so there! *sticks tongue out*
Nahh. Keru's got you beat, hands down! :D

Some sort of substantiation of this allegation would be nice, don't you think? :)
I belive he is referring to THIS (http://www.webmd.com/content/article/27/1728_61148?src=Inktomi&condition=Home%20&%20Top%20Stories).

Some sort of substantiation of this allegation would be nice, don't you think? :)
Considering that my daughter gets 'buck fever' when she's about to shoot a deer that she's just sighted, I'd say that anyone who thinks that women don't get "fight or flight" adrenaline rushes is an idiot.

Ever see a mother defend her child? If that's not "fight," then I don't know what is! :D
NEVER mess with momma bear! ;)

That's the silliest thing I have ever seen anyone post. No such thing has ever been proven, and the fact is it can be found in many different species. You just have to stop living in the fog of theroy and look around at what is real.

I take it back. There is just too much silly stuff posted here to qualify that as among them...but it's way up there!

I qualified. Read on, MacDuff. I also pointed out that since Psychology is not a science, nothing can be definitively proven.

"Fog of Theory", yes, that is where I live. I actually believe in theories like Evolution and Gravity. "Real" sucks.

Considering that my daughter gets 'buck fever' when she's about to shoot a deer that she's just sighted, I'd say that anyone who thinks that women don't get "fight or flight" adrenaline rushes is an idiot.
Good point! Buck fever is a great example.

If you want to survive among the human species, you better be ready to swing back, or you'll find yourself on the floor.
Been there, done that, didn't like it one bit! :D

Considering that my daughter gets 'buck fever' when she's about to shoot a deer that she's just sighted, I'd say that anyone who thinks that women don't get "fight or flight" adrenaline rushes is an idiot.

So the people who write for Psychology journals are idiots? Wow ... what's your definition of "not idiot"? You must hate nobel laureates and whatnot.

I qualified. Read on, MacDuff. I also pointed out that since Psychology is not a science, nothing can be definitively proven.

"Fog of Theory", yes, that is where I live. I actually believe in theories like Evolution and Gravity. "Real" sucks.
I never really understood why gravity is still just a theory. I mean, doesn't the fact that things are heavy kinda prove it?

I belive he is referring to THIS (http://www.webmd.com/content/article/27/1728_61148?src=Inktomi&condition=Home%20&%20Top%20Stories).

Partially, but it is a good example.

I belive he is referring to THIS (http://www.webmd.com/content/article/27/1728_61148?src=Inktomi&condition=Home%20&%20Top%20Stories).
I think this quote from that article sums up my own concept of this subject: "She might have a fight-or-flight response under certain conditions, but that would not be her primary response."

It's there. It's just not as pronounced in women as it is in men, which makes sense due to the "nurturing/protecting" variance in men and women.

I never really understood why gravity is still just a theory. I mean, doesn't the fact that things are heavy kinda prove it?

Lol ... well, in science, "theory" means "that which has yet to be disproven" (basically). Gravity hasn't been disproven, hence, it's a theory. Now, there's a gravitational constant (6.67300 × 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2) .... but, well .... damnit ... I don't want to think!

So the people who write for Psychology journals are idiots? Wow ... what's your definition of "not idiot"? You must hate nobel laureates and whatnot.

Psychologists, using the same research methodologies over the years, have often been wrong - largely because of the nature of the question and the research protocols involved.

Yes, I've seen a lot of idiotic research. There's a study out that indicates that nearly half of all research is so poorly done that it hardly qualifies as science.

Once they explain buck fever in teenage girls, I'll be happy to endorse their research.

If you want to survive among the human species, you better be ready to swing back, or you'll find yourself on the floor.

I've never swung (is that a word?) back and I have never found myself on the floor.

Once they explain buck fever in teenage girls, I'll be happy to endorse their research.

Yes ... it is essential only to endorse research with which you agree.

Once they explain buck fever in teenage girls, I'll be happy to endorse their research.
Say what? Um ... "buck fever?" :confused:

Yes, I've seen a lot of idiotic research.

Oh! And, incidently, that stuff never makes it into the journals. Internet? Sure ... why not? The stuff that is clearly idiotic never gets put up for peer review.

Oh! And, incidently, that stuff never makes it into the journals. Internet? Sure ... why not? The stuff that is clearly idiotic never gets put up for peer review.
The study focused only on peer reviewed science.

Nahh. Keru's got you beat, hands down! :D

Well it's a valuable life skill. ;)

The study focused only on peer reviewed science.

And where, pray tell, is this study?

I've never swung (is that a word?) back and I have never found myself on the floor.
Well then you've never been hit by the right guy! ;)

Well then you've never been hit by the right guy! ;)

Some have tried. The ones who truly know how to throw a punch never would.

And where, pray tell, is this study?
Hang on, let me get you your link.

Hang on, let me get you your link.

Okie dokie

"Real" sucks.

Certainly not a point I could argue against. Sometimes beyond what even the "hardest" of us can imagine.

I've never swung (is that a word?) back and I have never found myself on the floor.

Be patient.

Be patient.

I'm already 33 years old .... how much more patient do I have to be?

*Starts humming Pearl Jam's "Do the Evolution" in another thread* :p