NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: Making threatening videos has become a cottage industry among terrorists. Now the same terrorists who brought you the Bali bombings have made another video pledging to take their show on the road and bomb America, GB, Italy and Australia, with particular emphasis on Australia. Steady on, Mates!


Terrorist Threatens U.S. Attacks (http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,80669,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl)


Associated Press | November 17, 2005
JAKARTA, Indonesia - A video found in the hide-out of one of Asia's most wanted militants shows a masked man threatening attacks against the United States, Britain and Australia.

Police suspect the man in the video could be Malaysian fugitive Noordin Mohamad Top, considered a key leader of the al-Qaida-linked Southeast Asian terror group Jemaah Islamiyah.

The network allegedly orchestrated four deadly bombings in Indonesia, including the 2002 and 2005 suicide attacks on the resort island of Bali that together killed 222 people, many of them foreign tourists.

"As long as you keep your troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and intimidate Muslim people, you will feel our intimidation and our terror," the man said in the video, made public late Wednesday.

"You will be the target of our next attack."

National police chief Gen. Sutanto told reporters authorities were convinced the man in the video was Noordin, who is believed to be a fundraiser and recruiter for Jemaah Islamiyah.

"Judging from his accent, we believe it was Noordin," he said.

Police said the video was found along with several other recordings one week ago in a hideout in central Java province that had been used by Noordin, who fled before officers arrived.

About the same time, anti-terror police raided the safehouse of Azahari bin Husin - Noordin's right hand man - killing him. Azahari's body was being flown to Malaysia on Thursday for burial in his hometown.

"Our enemy is America, Australia, England and Italy," the masked man said, pointing his finger at the camera.

Later, he singled out Australia - which last week arrested 18 Islamic terror suspects in coordinated pre-dawn raids in the cities of Melbourne and Sydney.

"Especially you," he said to Prime Minister John Howard and Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. "You are bringing all the Australian people to darkness and terrorizing the mujahedeen ... Remember that."

Downer on Thursday said Australia would not be intimated.

"No democratic country like Australia should be intimidated by a fanatic like Noordin Top," he told reporters in his hometown of Adelaide.

"We have to make it perfectly clear that whatever these people do, whatever threats they make, we have got the strength and courage to stand up to that."

Also in Wednesday's video, three men who carried out suicide attacks on three crowded Bali restaurants last month told their families they expect to be rewarded in heaven.

It is believed to be the first time suicide bombers in Indonesia have made a video before launching an attack, said Bali police chief Maj. Gen. I Made Mangku Pastika.

Jemaah Islamiyah, which wants to establish an Islamic state spanning Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and the southern Philippines, has been weakened by a regional crackdown in recent years.

But terror experts warn it is still capable of carrying out attacks.

he wants paradise? Shoot the bastard!

I am moving to Australia next year...Up the scocceroos!

I wish they'd piss off. All this is becoming a convenient smokescreen for the government to push through ridiculous legislation. Shoo, terrorist scum.

Didnt they claim the attacks on Bali were ment to be against Australians? They really need to get their storys straight they have threatened us. We pretty much ignored it.

Maybe if they got laid more they wouldnt be so angry.

I wish they'd piss off. All this is becoming a convenient smokescreen for the government to push through ridiculous legislation. Shoo, terrorist scum.
Do you know how to use a weapon? I'm mounting a private campaign to take them all out. Enough is enough! Who's with me? :D

Do you know how to use a weapon? I'm mounting a private campaign to take them all out. Enough is enough! Who's with me? :D
Wouldn't be a bad idea. We just need to raise a few million dollars to bribe the police and military personell of various S.E. Asian nations to look the other way while we assasinate people on their territory.

Wouldn't be a bad idea. We just need to raise a few million dollars to bribe the police and military personell of various S.E. Asian nations to look the other way while we assasinate people on their territory. Balinese Police are very cheap to bribe, I got out of a ton of trouble for driving without a licence there simply by slipping the policeman a few extra bucks. He was very friendly about it. They usually offer for you to bribe them first, and you barter a price.

Ah, I love Bali. Too bad about the psychopathic lunatics.

Balinese Police are very cheap to bribe, I got out of a ton of trouble for driving without a licence there simply by slipping the policeman a few extra bucks. He was very friendly about it. They usually offer for you to bribe them first, and you barter a price.

Ah, I love Bali. Too bad about the psychopathic lunatics.
I've got a feeling it costs more to get the cops to look the other way when you're planning to rig a terrorist's car to explode or setting up a fake weapons deal and shooting the prospective buyers.

Do you know how to use a weapon? I'm mounting a private campaign to take them all out. Enough is enough! Who's with me? :D

Hmm...well...If you lead them to my place i'll spray them with vodka.

Hmm...well...If you lead them to my place i'll spray them with vodka.

Here's a quick guide to guns (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/plasmaphoenix/knowledge.jpg) ... no I've never used a gun either :p

I've got a feeling it costs more to get the cops to look the other way when you're planning to rig a terrorist's car to explode or setting up a fake weapons deal and shooting the prospective buyers. Nah, do you have any idea what terrorism does to the tourism industry, their main source of income? Hell they'd probably help you set it up!

Here's a quick guide to guns (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/plasmaphoenix/knowledge.jpg) ... no I've never used a gun either :p

Aww...but why use violence? Scaring them with acts of western style decadence and moral corruption is much more fun. *poses in a pair of speedos, with a beer in one hand and a pork sausage in the other*

No, really. A pork sausage. You filthy people. *clobbers you with it*

Aww...but why use violence? Scaring them with acts of western style decadence and moral corruption is much more fun. *poses in a pair of speedos, with a beer in one hand and a pork sausage in the other*

No, really. A pork sausage. You filthy people. *clobbers you with it*

Scaring them will make them want to blow more stuff up.

Nah, do you have any idea what terrorism does to the tourism industry, their main source of income? Hell they'd probably help you set it up!
Cool! Let's go kill some terrorists.

Scaring them will make them want to blow more stuff up.

Meh, they'll do it either way. At least my way ensures eventual victory...somehow. :p

I wish they'd piss off. All this is becoming a convenient smokescreen for the government to push through ridiculous legislation. Shoo, terrorist scum.
Sorry. the government of OZ outlawed any reasonable individual defense from acts of terrorisim.

Please sit back and let them shoot you. Maybe the police will catch them...

Hmm...well...If you lead them to my place i'll spray them with vodka.
Oh noes! Not the dreaded "vodka torture!" Aieeee! :D

Well, it is about time that the US will be bombed. The US has invaded Iraq for no reason at all, killed uptowards 200.000 people in the process, poisoned millions of people with DU, tortures Iraqi civilians, calls concerned freedom fighting civilians for "terrorists" and shows no respect towards international law.

The fight should be taken to the US, where it's "innocent" US civilians that get killed due to the US war, not Iraqi or Afghani civilians.

The life of a single human being is too precious, and the US is in the business of KILLING, and should therefore be given a taste of it's own medicine.

There are many Americans who do stand up and protest against their government, but that's not enough. A revolution is needed to change the whole system.

Take for instance this little piece of info:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/epa6.cfm

Wednesday, November 16, 2005

Public Comment Period Closes
December 12, 2005

Public comments are now being accepted by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) on its newly proposed federal regulation regarding the testing of chemicals and pesticides on human subjects. On August 2, 2005, Congress had mandated the EPA create a rule that permanently bans chemical testing on pregnant women and children. But the EPA's newly proposed rule, misleadingly titled "Protections for Subjects in Human Research," puts industry profits ahead of children's welfare. The rule allows for government and industry scientists to treat children as human guinea pigs in chemical experiments in the following situations:

Children who "cannot be reasonably consulted," such as those that are mentally handicapped or orphaned newborns may be tested on. With permission from the institution or guardian in charge of the individual, the child may be exposed to chemicals for the sake of research.
Parental consent forms are not necessary for testing on children who have been neglected or abused.
Chemical studies on any children outside of the U.S. are acceptable.

That's right, the EPA, an institution of the US, advocating chemical/pesticide testing on children that have been abused/neglected or that are mentally/physically challenged and they want to make sure that ALL FOREIGN CHILDREN are legal subjects for chemical/pesticide testing!! If this doesn't show the TRUE sickomerican spirit, then what does?

It is long overdue for the world to isolate the US economically and politically.

Now Australia has put in their own "Patriot Act" ... which forbids demonstrations without prior permission, which allows the authorities to kidnap people without charges of any kind, without access to lawyer, family or others. People can now be held for years without ever being charged, without their families ever being told where their loved ones are.

This is all due to the madness of the US that is spreading like wildfire around the "democratic world" ..... where is the democracy??

The fascist-nazi states of sickomerica have to come to an end.

Snippy crazy overzealous anti-american leftie stuff My friend, you're not going to last long on this forum with an attitude like that. Particularly one SUPPORTING FUCKING TERRORISTS!!

Perhaps you should reconsider your stance.

*currently restraining self to prevent mod-acton*

For the sake of sanity, I hope everyone just ignores that post, 2 above this one... please? :(

For the sake of sanity, I hope everyone just ignores that post, 2 above this one... please? :(
But if we ignore the crazy weirdo the terrorists win!

Well, it is about time that the US will be bombed. The US has invaded Iraq for no reason at all, killed uptowards 200.000 people in the process, poisoned millions of people with DU, tortures Iraqi civilians, calls concerned freedom fighting civilians for "terrorists" and shows no respect towards international law.

The fight should be taken to the US, where it's "innocent" US civilians that get killed due to the US war, not Iraqi or Afghani civilians.

The life of a single human being is too precious, and the US is in the business of KILLING, and should therefore be given a taste of it's own medicine.

There are many Americans who do stand up and protest against their government, but that's not enough. A revolution is needed to change the whole system.

Take for instance this little piece of info:



That's right, the EPA, an institution of the US, advocating chemical/pesticide testing on children that have been abused/neglected or that are mentally/physically challenged and they want to make sure that ALL FOREIGN CHILDREN are legal subjects for chemical/pesticide testing!! If this doesn't show the TRUE sickomerican spirit, then what does?

It is long overdue for the world to isolate the US economically and politically.

Now Australia has put in their own "Patriot Act" ... which forbids demonstrations without prior permission, which allows the authorities to kidnap people without charges of any kind, without access to lawyer, family or others. People can now be held for years without ever being charged, without their families ever being told where their loved ones are.

This is all due to the madness of the US that is spreading like wildfire around the "democratic world" ..... where is the democracy??

The fascist-nazi states of sickomerica have to come to an end.
1) Human life isn't precious. The lives of good humans are precious. The terrorist's lives are cheap.

2) The battle was brought to the USA. Remember 9/11? Remember the first attempt to blow up the WTC? Afghanistan was in retaliation for that.

3) It's comforting to me to know that people like you exist. You make me seem reasonable and intelligent by comparison.

Time for you folks to open your eyes and see who the REAL terrorists are: The Sickomerican FaZi rulers!

Can ANY of you name the REASON for the invasion of Iraq?

Was it to fight "terrorism"??

Now wake up you infants, or you might find yourselves as test subjects for pesticides and other chemicals.

During Nazi Germany's war-years, the Nazi regime supported chemical testing on infants, handicapped and others.... now the US is taking the very same path (probably has been on it all along, it's just that now they are making more specified rules)....

When the US kills 200.000 people in Iraq, it is viewed by Sickomericans as "just cause"... but when a single US soldier (the word "soldier" really doesn't fit there) is shot dead in foreign lands he was not invited to, it is seen as a great loss...

Blindness to reality is no excuse for people to carry out illegal operations.
Ignorance is no excuse to continue an illegal occupation of another country.
"Following orders" is not a valid defense, when a person has been known to carry out illegal orders or actions.

The US has "unsigned" the "war crimes treaty", so that it's war criminals won't be prosecuted for their crimes.... what does that tell you people? http://www.alternet.org/story/13055

What do you think of the pesticide/chemical testing of orphans/abused/neglected/mentally adn or physically challenged children?

You don't say a word about that... did you? That shows where YOU stand.... you prefer to close your eyes to reality, and take side with the real terrorists who terrorize the world.

Now... what was the reason for the invasion of Iraq? Was it "terrorism" ? Can you at least address that question? And if you find the time, you are welcome to address the chemical/pesticide testing on children as well.

Time for you folks to open your eyes and see who the REAL terrorists are: The Sickomerican FaZi rulers!

Can ANY of you name the REASON for the invasion of Iraq?

Was it to fight "terrorism"??

Now wake up you infants, or you might find yourselves as test subjects for pesticides and other chemicals.

During Nazi Germany's war-years, the Nazi regime supported chemical testing on infants, handicapped and others.... now the US is taking the very same path (probably has been on it all along, it's just that now they are making more specified rules)....

When the US kills 200.000 people in Iraq, it is viewed by Sickomericans as "just cause"... but when a single US soldier (the word "soldier" really doesn't fit there) is shot dead in foreign lands he was not invited to, it is seen as a great loss...

Blindness to reality is no excuse for people to carry out illegal operations.
Ignorance is no excuse to continue an illegal occupation of another country.
"Following orders" is not a valid defense, when a person has been known to carry out illegal orders or actions.

The US has "unsigned" the "war crimes treaty", so that it's war criminals won't be prosecuted for their crimes.... what does that tell you people? http://www.alternet.org/story/13055

What do you think of the pesticide/chemical testing of orphans/abused/neglected/mentally adn or physically challenged children?

You don't say a word about that... did you? That shows where YOU stand.... you prefer to close your eyes to reality, and take side with the real terrorists who terrorize the world.

Now... what was the reason for the invasion of Iraq? Was it "terrorism" ? Can you at least address that question? And if you find the time, you are welcome to address the chemical/pesticide testing on children as well.
1) I and many other Americans were not in favor of invading Iraq. We'd much rather have invaded Sudan to stop the genocide or Saudi Arabia to kill the terrorists at the source of their wealth and ideology.

2) You're the real terrorist. You're inciting others to kill my people.

3) The testing would take place only with parental permission, and it's not like they will be injecting kids with pure insecticide. They'll be testing trace dosages on fruit and vegetables and they'll be monitoring the kid's condition constantly to stop the tests if any harm is apparent.

1) Human life isn't precious.
Well, you are of course allowed to speak for yourself.

2) The battle was brought to the USA. Remember 9/11? Remember the first attempt to blow up the WTC? Afghanistan was in retaliation for that.
Ignorance is no excuse. Reality is that the US has abused the world for 6 decades, initiated and supported more than 180 wars and conflicts, carried out assassinations, supported (and still supports) dictatorships where people are BOILED to death (read up on Islam Karimov's dictatorship in Uzbekistan... he receives around 500 million dollars in "aid" from the US every year, so that he can continue his brutal rule)....

You mention 911 .... are you believing the official story? That 19 hijackers got control of 4 civilian airliners and crashed them into their chosen targets? Do you REALLY fall for that? If you do, you have been had. Start here to get some FACTS: www.whatreallyhappened.com

The US has murdered millions of people around the world during the past 6 decades, and it is only logical that some people decide to make a stand and fight back. Why should they allow further abuse of their countries and their loved ones? Just because YOU would do it, doesn't mean that THEY will do it.

3) It's comforting to me to know that people like you exist. You make me seem reasonable and intelligent by comparison.
Was that your attempt at a snide remark? If it was, it just failed. You need to do some more reading, and that does not mean looking at pictures in comic books.

Time for you folks to open your eyes and see who the REAL terrorists are: The Sickomerican FaZi rulers! :rolleyes: This kind of talk makes me sad in the pants.

Can ANY of you name the REASON for the invasion of Iraq?
To deal with what the idiotic Administration thought was an immediate threat? To secure a firm base from which to project itself throughout the Middle East? Yes, I can think of many reasons. (NOT that stupid BLOOD for OIL!!!!111 crap though)

During Nazi Germany's war-years, the Nazi regime supported chemical testing on infants, handicapped and others.... now the US is taking the very same path (probably has been on it all along, it's just that now they are making more specified rules).... Wonderful, more invoking of Godwin. Yes, Bu$h is TeH HITLER, of course. :p

When the US kills 200.000 people in Iraq, it is viewed by Sickomericans as "just cause"... but when a single US soldier (the word "soldier" really doesn't fit there) is shot dead in foreign lands he was not invited to, it is seen as a great loss... What are you going on about when putting quotation marks around the word Soldier? Dare I ask?

You mention 911 .... are you believing the official story? That 19 hijackers got control of 4 civilian airliners and crashed them into their chosen targets? Do you REALLY fall for that? If you do, you have been had. Start here to get some FACTS: www.whatreallyhappened.com

The US has murdered millions of people around the world during the past 6 decades, and it is only logical that some people decide to make a stand and fight back. Why should they allow further abuse of their countries and their loved ones? Just because YOU would do it, doesn't mean that THEY will do it. Okay, so we've now confirmed you take the "truth" from wacko conspiracy websites. Plus you really think that terrorists are "striking back". Striking back from what?!

Personally, do I think the American Invasion was a good idea? No. Do I support terrorists killing innocent civilians just because of this? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY NOT!

I'm beginning to understand what Lenin meant when he referred to 'useful idiots'. :(

1) I and many other Americans were not in favor of invading Iraq. We'd much rather have invaded Sudan to stop the genocide or Saudi Arabia to kill the terrorists at the source of their wealth and ideology.
How about just keeping your troops at home where they SHOULD be in the first place, and live in harmony with the rest of the world? The world does not need or want your troops or politicians to interfere in their affairs. The actions of the US in the past have caused more problems than solutions around the world. Sometimes the chicken find their way back home...

2) You're the real terrorist. You're inciting others to kill my people.
So I am a real terrorist... because I don't agree with Sickomerica's "right" to abuse others, to torture, to rape, to murder by the millions. That makes ME a terrorist? Where do you find the logic in that statement of yours?

I do object to SICKomericans, while I have NOTHING against Americans.... if you see yourself as a part of the SICKO's, then that is your choice... maybe rightfully so, and if that is the case, you have a good reason to object to my opinions.

3) The testing would take place only with parental permission, and it's not like they will be injecting kids with pure insecticide. They'll be testing trace dosages on fruit and vegetables and they'll be monitoring the kid's condition constantly to stop the tests if any harm is apparent.
Really? Is that how you read this:
Parental consent forms are not necessary for testing on children who have been neglected or abused.

Well, you are of course allowed to speak for yourself.


Ignorance is no excuse. Reality is that the US has abused the world for 6 decades, initiated and supported more than 180 wars and conflicts, carried out assassinations, supported (and still supports) dictatorships where people are BOILED to death (read up on Islam Karimov's dictatorship in Uzbekistan... he receives around 500 million dollars in "aid" from the US every year, so that he can continue his brutal rule)....

You mention 911 .... are you believing the official story? That 19 hijackers got control of 4 civilian airliners and crashed them into their chosen targets? Do you REALLY fall for that? If you do, you have been had. Start here to get some FACTS: www.whatreallyhappened.com

The US has murdered millions of people around the world during the past 6 decades, and it is only logical that some people decide to make a stand and fight back. Why should they allow further abuse of their countries and their loved ones? Just because YOU would do it, doesn't mean that THEY will do it.


Was that your attempt at a snide remark? If it was, it just failed. You need to do some more reading, and that does not mean looking at pictures in comic books.You need to read something other than conspiracy theories. The US is an angel compared to the radical islamists that we're fighting. I hope you get a chance to experience living under their rule first hand.

The actions of the US in the past have caused more problems than solutions around the world. Sometimes the chicken find their way back home... Umm, did you ever hear of a little thing called The Cold War? Yes, the U.S. policy was at time monsterous, but check out what the Ruskies and the Chinese were doing and they look like saints.

How about just keeping your troops at home where they SHOULD be in the first place, and live in harmony with the rest of the world? The world does not need or want your troops or politicians to interfere in their affairs. The actions of the US in the past have caused more problems than solutions around the world. Sometimes the chicken find their way back home...


So I am a real terrorist... because I don't agree with Sickomerica's "right" to abuse others, to torture, to rape, to murder by the millions. That makes ME a terrorist? Where do you find the logic in that statement of yours?

I do object to SICKomericans, while I have NOTHING against Americans.... if you see yourself as a part of the SICKO's, then that is your choice... maybe rightfully so, and if that is the case, you have a good reason to object to my opinions.


Really? Is that how you read this:
1) Yeah. It's stupid to advocate stopping a genocide. After all, they're only Africans, right?

2) No, you're a terrorist because you support their efforts to kill my people. I hope you get an all expense paid vacation to lovely Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

3) I object to your opinions because you're a bigot who gets his opinions from crackpot websites.

Your posts are full of lies, for example your claim that over 200,000 Iraqis have been killed. The highest estimate is like half of that.

Your posts are inflamatory and bigoted for seriously calling for more terrorist attacks on the USA

You're a hypocrite for saying that all human life is precious but wishing death on Americans.

I'm going to do something I don't normally do. I'm reporting you to moderation. Why? Because otherwise I'll be forced to flame the hell out of you and get myself deleted.

My posts full of lies? Where? Bring the truth to light.

And am I inflamatory? For bringing the truth out?

Never did I call for "more" terrorist attacks on the US, I only say that it is about time the fight is taken to the abuser... which according to all the proof is the US.

Wishing death on the abusers is hypocritic? Well, it only shows where YOU are placing yourself.

You are calling me a terrorist, a liar and bigot and hypocrite....and want to report ME to moderation!!!

What a loser!

My posts full of lies? Where? Bring the truth to light.

And am I inflamatory? For bringing the truth out? Truth? What truth? All I've seen so far is frankly aggressive rhetoric about Americans "derserving it" and claims that 9/11 was a conspiracy, backed up only by a crackpot website.

BTW, the number is not 200,000. Being fairly anti-war, however this doesn't really matter to me. If you are claiming to speak the "truth", how about starting with simple facts?

Never did I call for "more" terrorist attacks on the US, I only say that it is about time the fight is taken to the abuser... which according to all the proof is the US.

VERY.... FIRST.... COMMENT....

Well, it is about time that the US will be bombed.

:rolleyes:

Wishing death on the abusers is hypocritic? Well, it only shows where YOU are placing yourself. Right between you and innocent civilians. It's where I'd be too.

You are calling me a terrorist, a liar and bigot and hypocrite....and want to report ME to moderation!!!

What a loser! :p

Now, back on track (and no abuse needed)...

You claimed that the parents would need to give their approval to have their children used as guinea pigs for pesticide/chemical testing, when the piece clearly reads:

Parental consent forms are not necessary for testing on children who have been neglected or abused.

Maybe my US English is rotting away, but after reading this several times, I can't see how you can be right.... sorry, but it is as if you have closed your eyes to reality here.

And what right does the US have to decide that it is ok to test pesticides and chemicals on ALL children outside the US?
Chemical studies on any children outside of the U.S. are acceptable.

This shows how degenerated this society has become. It is sad that respect for life has reached this low a level. Is it any wonder that people by the billions around the world, view the US as a cancer?

If you behave well, noone will justifyably be attacking you. That goes for individuals and countries alike.

You dispute the 200.000 figure... ok, fine... so you can come with some hard evidence number? No, of course not, because the lives of the Iraqi's don't count, and are therefore not counted by the US. There were around half a million and upto one million children who died during the sanctions of Iraq from 1991-2003... unaccounted millions of people have been poisoned by DU (Depleted Uranium) which the US uses in it's munitions to this day. Cancer rates in Iraq (due to DU) have sky rocketed in the past 14 years, as a result of the US waging war with weapons that are nothing short of WMD's, indescriminately used against civilians. Clusterbombs in urban areas, blowing up children, MK77 "napalm" bombs which have been outlawed as a legal weapon, but international laws (signed and accepted by the US) don't include the US of course.

No, I do not lie, all I do, is to bring you the truth you never heard of. That does not mean that it's a lie... you need to update your info, think about it, debunk it with facts if that is what you think is needed... and I will have no difficulty in accepting being wrong... if the evidence is crystal clear.

You knew of the 19 hijackers right? Their faces are still on the FBI website, even though 8 of them are alive and well in their home countries. FBI director Mueller admitted that there were cases of "stolen idendity" ... yet they have given no explaination why they still have the names and faces of these people on their site. No proof, no explainations... just assumptions, deceits and MSM compliance.

Information is a good thing... don't be afraid of it.

Children are told that Santa Claus is real... and it comes as a shock to many of them to figure out the truth.... that it was all a lie. .... same thing happens to many who finally figure out how rotten the system really is. It is not nice, but it is better to know the truth than to blindly believe in some lies.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL

Truth? What truth? All I've seen so far is frankly aggressive rhetoric about Americans "derserving it" and claims that 9/11 was a conspiracy, backed up only by a crackpot website.

Care to back your comment up? How is it a "crackpot website"? Which site is it you refer to? The one mentioning how Bush decides to drop the US out of the war crimes radar by "unsigning" the treaty, or the site putting focus on how the EPA want's to have free hands to test chemicals/pesticides on the weakest members of the US society, and potentially ALL children outside the US, or the one that is a news-blogger, collecting news stories from all over the world, from dubious sources such as AP, Reuters, TASS and hundreds of others... the site known as www.whatreallyhappened.com Why is it by your opinion a "crackpot website" ??

BTW, the number is not 200,000. Being fairly anti-war, however this doesn't really matter to me. If you are claiming to speak the "truth", how about starting with simple facts?
As I did point out in mylast post, there is no PROOF for any number, but even if it was "only" 100.000 or even half of that... it would be no less murderous. The total number of people dead in and around Iraq due to US policy, is much much bigger than 200.000. I did not specify a time frame for this death toll, but I think you believe this to be my estimate for the past 2+ years... which it is not.


VERY.... FIRST.... COMMENT....
:rolleyes:
Taking the war to the abuser would be the right thing to do ... no? Or you think that it is ok to have Iraqi civilians killed every day, because of a war that was started by the US? What is it the Iraqi civilians did to deserve this? Nothing, that's what! So, it would be more correct if the war was fought on US soil, where US civilians were the one's dying.... after all it IS a US initiated war.

BEST solution by my opinion, would be to have NO war, NO occupation, NO abuse of ANYONE. But that is not what the US wants, or it would act accordingly.

Right between you and innocent civilians. It's where I'd be too.

:p

Civilians are only "innocent" if they are American? Why don't you place yourself between the US dishonorable torturemasters, murderers and rapists, and the Iraqi civilians then?

Is there a smell of hypocricy here?

DON'T FEED THE TROLL

That's the spirit... don't address the issues if they seem to shake your world too much.

See nothing evil, say nothing evil, hear nothing evil....

That's a good boy...

I find the opinions of the OP very interesting indeed. And I would love nothing more than to discuss them with him in person, so that I could somehow express my personal point of view in a more, how should I say this, "informative" manner.

But hey, if wishes were horses, right?

I find the opinions of the OP very interesting indeed. And I would love nothing more than to discuss them with him in person, so that I could somehow express my personal point of view in a more, how should I say this, "informative" manner.

But hey, if wishes were horses, right?

Eutrusca being the Original Poster (OP) ... having had very little to say... well, here is what he has said until now:

COMMENTARY: Making threatening videos has become a cottage industry among terrorists. Now the same terrorists who brought you the Bali bombings have made another video pledging to take their show on the road and bomb America, GB, Italy and Australia, with particular emphasis on Australia. Steady on, Mates!

Do you know how to use a weapon? I'm mounting a private campaign to take them all out. Enough is enough! Who's with me?

Oh noes! Not the dreaded "vodka torture!" Aieeee!

Makes me wonder where you really stand when it comes to your opinions.

Well, it is about time that the US will be bombed. The US has invaded Iraq for no reason at all, killed uptowards 200.000 people in the process, poisoned millions of people with DU, tortures Iraqi civilians, calls concerned freedom fighting civilians for "terrorists" and shows no respect towards international law.
Advocating the murder of US citizens. Probably not a good idea.

The fight should be taken to the US, where it's "innocent" US civilians that get killed due to the US war, not Iraqi or Afghani civilians.
You do realize that there are US citizens who opposed the war in Iraq, right?

The life of a single human being is too precious, and the US is in the business of KILLING, and should therefore be given a taste of it's own medicine.

There are many Americans who do stand up and protest against their government, but that's not enough. A revolution is needed to change the whole system.

Take for instance this little piece of info:



That's right, the EPA, an institution of the US, advocating chemical/pesticide testing on children that have been abused/neglected or that are mentally/physically challenged and they want to make sure that ALL FOREIGN CHILDREN are legal subjects for chemical/pesticide testing!! If this doesn't show the TRUE sickomerican spirit, then what does?

It is long overdue for the world to isolate the US economically and politically.

Now Australia has put in their own "Patriot Act" ... which forbids demonstrations without prior permission, which allows the authorities to kidnap people without charges of any kind, without access to lawyer, family or others. People can now be held for years without ever being charged, without their families ever being told where their loved ones are.

This is all due to the madness of the US that is spreading like wildfire around the "democratic world" ..... where is the democracy??

The fascist-nazi states of sickomerica have to come to an end.

You're perfectly ok with disagreeing with America and its policies, but advocating the deaths of Americans is trolling in itself, and will not be tolerated on this forum.
Official Warning for Trolling

-Snip-

Just to make things clear. I live in the United States and from my point of view, and the point of view of many of the people that i have had the pleasure of talking to from not only my home town but all across the nation, we do not like President Bush. I personally voted for "The Other Guy" (i.e Kerry). Kerry wanted to pull out of Iraq and Afganistan because it was a sate of the taxpayers money.

Many people here in the United States wish that George W. Bush was never put into office again, so don't blame all of us who live in the US for this, we had nothing to do with it.

You mention 911 .... are you believing the official story? That 19 hijackers got control of 4 civilian airliners and crashed them into their chosen targets? Do you REALLY fall for that? If you do, you have been had. Start here to get some FACTS: www.whatreallyhappened.com


Goddamnit! Those stupid conspiracy theories have been disproven many times! Try not to be so gullible.

http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Advocating the murder of US citizens. Probably not a good idea.

I do not advocate the murder of US citizens. Or... maybe you read me wrong, or maybe I write it wrong... whatever.

Is it OK according to your set of mod-rules having people advocating the murder of people of OTHER nationalities? Like... eh.. let's say... Iraqi's? Is that ok? And why is THAT ok, but it is not ok to say that the fight should be taken to the one who started the abuse? Here a little example that has not been given a "warning for advocating murder"

Do you know how to use a weapon? I'm mounting a private campaign to take them all out. Enough is enough! Who's with me?

Wouldn't be a bad idea. We just need to raise a few million dollars to bribe the police and military personell of various S.E. Asian nations to look the other way while we assasinate people on their territory.

Cool! Let's go kill some terrorists.
(by my view, the US is THE terrorist (opinion shared with billions of other people) so according to that widely held opinion, Drunk commies deleted is advocating the murder of Americans... right?... yet no "warning")

You do realize that there are US citizens who opposed the war in Iraq, right?
Yes, absolutely, and I have made clear that I DO keep the distinction between the lunatics and the sane human beings in place. In my words, there are the SICKOmericans, and then there are the Americans. Two different species. In an ideal world, there would be no killing, but this is hardly a world we can see as ideal, right? The US starts wars, kills civilians by (un-counted) thousands (past years), and millions (past 6 decades)... yet it is seen as "advocating murder of US citizens" when I say that the fight should be brought to the abuser!

You're perfectly ok with disagreeing with America and its policies, but advocating the deaths of Americans is trolling in itself, and will not be tolerated on this forum.
[edit]
Official Warning for Trolling

Great, I am glad that I am "allowed" to disagree with the official policy of Sickomerica.... but I still wonder why there is not the same official warning when other posters are talking about directly KILLING other people. THEMSELVES going and do the killing.... I find that a little bit strange. Why is it ok to talk about the invasion of Iraq and the continued murder of innocent civilians there as if it's just another non-issue, but when someone (me) mentions that it's about time that US initiated war is brought to it's home base, it is reprimanded with a warning ... and possibly a ban?

Forgive me for seeing that as being very hypocritical point of view to hold... but that is how I see it.

I don't want Iraqi's to be killed, and I don't want Americans to be killed... but if there was a choice between the two, based on the facts, the losses should be happening in the country that declared war on peace, and invaded and occupied a country that posed no threat to anyone.

If it is not ok to discuss the issues from 2 different (or more preferably) points of view, there can be no discussion... and with your warning in my back pocket, I can see that there is a different set of rules for those who wish death and destruction to continue in foreign lands, while those who object to such abuse are to keep their tounge in place and say nothing that even remotely resembles the words used by those who want to kill someone personally.


Just to make things clear. I live in the United States and from my point of view, and the point of view of many of the people that i have had the pleasure of talking to from not only my home town but all across the nation, we do not like President Bush. I personally voted for "The Other Guy" (i.e Kerry). Kerry wanted to pull out of Iraq and Afganistan because it was a sate of the taxpayers money.

Many people here in the United States wish that George W. Bush was never put into office again, so don't blame all of us who live in the US for this, we had nothing to do with it.

I know Shazbotdom, and I don't blame "everyone" ... I see the US as having been hijacked by a bunch of criminals, who care for nothing but their own continued powertrip. I don't think anything would have changed if Kerry had been elected... the rot goes too deep. Kerry and Bush both being members of the same (satanist) fraternity Skull & Bones, being related... working on the same agenda. Hopefully the truth will be put out into the open sooner rather than later, so that the people of your country can make the needed in-house-cleaning.

What happens within the US, should be left untouched by the outside world, but when the (official) US goes beyond it's own borders and abuses people and countries around the world, the world's populations DO have the right to speak up.

For instance the piece I brought about the EPA wanting a regulation which gives the US "permission" to use children OUTSIDE the US as guinea pigs for pesticide/chemical testing... now THAT is a direct abuse of the world, and should not be tolerated in any way.... if they change the text "only" to give authorization to use orphans/abused/neglected/mentally and physically challenged US children as guinea pigs for said tests... then I would STILL find it overly disgusting in every way.... but it would be up to the US population to deal with it.

Goddamnit! Those stupid conspiracy theories have been disproven many times! Try not to be so gullible.

http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

You mean the 25-year-old Benjamin Chertoff who wrote the Popular Mechanics piece, which doesn't hold water very much, the same 25-year-old Benjamin Chertoff who is the Cousin of Michael Chertoff, the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security ???

Sure, when PM was asked about the connection, they didn't want to respond. When Benjamin Chertoff was asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he hung up and tried to stay hidden from these foul questions.

The report was about as waterproof as a glass without a bottom. His "expertise" is found in his family connection with Michael... nothing else.

As to the other link you provided, it is... well, let's just say that it is lacking.

Here, try this one, and no, it is not unfounded theory:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

This is for serious consideration of course... so it will help to read all the words, not only look at the pictures. If you know better than this guy, please supply direct proof... but I am sure you will find it difficult to dismiss his thesis.

There are many weird theories out there which have no connection to reality, but does not mean that ALL of them are like that. Some say that there were no airplanes that hit the WTC towers... that it was all light and holograms and video editing and crap like that. Use your head, and don't let others ABuse your head by planting false information.

All I ask of you is to read this one thesis and consider it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Somewhere there is a total debunk of the Popular Mechanic article, not based on the family connection of the Chertoff's, but on the facts that were skewed and lied about and emitted from publication.

Well... I guess this may be my last post here, if I have been too much out of line with the official policy I will not be given another chance to write. If that happens to be the case, I can only hope that some of you who read this, will try and keep an open mind to the world around you.

Sorry. the government of OZ outlawed any reasonable individual defense from acts of terrorisim.

Please sit back and let them shoot you. Maybe the police will catch them...

Last I heard, even if guns were legal, shooting people without concern for the legal process isn't looked kindly upon. I believe it's called vigilantism, and i'm quite certain it is illegal. You're right, law enforcement is the job of the police. I shudder to think what would happen if individual citizens suddenly had the right to enforce the law.

Furthermore, I doubt being able to own a gun is really going to protect me if someone wants to blow a major landmark up. Even if I manage to miraculously, in a rambo-like fashion, kill every single last one of them, everyone else is going to think i'm involved, because i'm the one waving the gun around. And then the police come. Clever, eh?

Up until now, Australia hass been a beacon of tolerance and peace. It is unacceptable and incompetent for a government to knowingly place us in this danger, through domestic and foreign policy that is wafer thin, at best.

Up until now, Australia hass been a beacon of tolerance and peace.

Australia still is a beacon of tolerance and peace. Part of the reason that these things blow up and people make such a big deal is because we really do care about tolerance and peace. So we scream and shout about things that don't seem tolerant. "Pauline Hanson says racist things, and is a politician? That's outrageous!" so every country hears about our "racist" political party. Despite her lack of any real political power. If we didn't think it's so important to be tolerant, she'd have just gone out with a whimper.

Same thing with these terrorist laws (in my opinion). They are giving the government more power but 1) I have faith in my government not to abuse these powers, considering the mandate and 2) they're really not that excessive.

The most controversial new law is the "shoot to kill" law. It gives police the right to shoot to kill if a terror suspect tries to run. They don't have to prove that the suspect was guilty of anything, but they're allowed to kill him/her.
Understandably, a lot of people got very upset at the suggestion of that law (I don't believe it's gone through yet, and will likely be removed). I have no problem with it at all. I read up on it a little, and discovered that...
...firstly there has to be a known terrorist, secondly this person needs to have a link to the known terrorist (relative/business partner/seen together often etc.) - so we're not talking "just anyone". Thirdly the police have to be going to arrest the person (yes, they can arrest people linked with terrorists without evidence, and hold them for a certain amount of time) and fourthly, after the police identify themselves, the person has to try to run away. Sure, an innocent person could get shot, but they're still an innocent person running from the police, after the police identified themselves. C'mon, if you're that innocent, why are you running? Oh, and you need to have the bad luck of being buddies with a terrorist, too.

So...there's the potential for a tragedy to happen, but there's always that potential when people are running around with guns. There's just as much or more potential for a tragedy to happen if the police don't have enough powers to deal with terrorists. There's not so much potential for abuse, since the police still have to justify their assumption that this guy was involved with a terrorist. They couldn't, for example, shoot me. Not unless I'm unknowingly consorting with a terrorist (which could happen). And they have to have pretty solid evidence that whoever I'm consorting with actually is a terrorist.

Just my 2c. I do trust my government more than I trust many other governments, though. Maybe I'm being willfully blind, but I think not.

1) Human life isn't precious. The lives of good humans are precious. The terrorist's lives are cheap.

Drunk commies, are the lives of innocent children cheap? Do you think it is OK that the USA passes laws allowing orphans and foreign children to be experimented on with chemicals?

The US has "unsigned" the "war crimes treaty", so that it's war criminals won't be prosecuted for their crimes.... what does that tell you people? http://www.alternet.org/story/13055

That tells me the USA plans to have its citizens commit war crimes.

2) You're the real terrorist. You're inciting others to kill my people.


I thought he was advocating a pre-emptive strike.

Okay, so we've now confirmed you take the "truth" from wacko conspiracy websites.

Here in NYC, where we can see what is going on, recent surveys show that more than 25% of New Yorkers believe the government was behind 911. More than 50% believe the government knew it was going to happen, and didn't stop it.

The US is an angel compared to the radical islamists
and
The Cold War? Yes, the U.S. policy was at time monsterous, but check out what the Ruskies and the Chinese were doing and they look like saints.

So, the 2 of you subscribe to the philosophy that 2 wrongs make a right?

You're a hypocrite for saying that all human life is precious but wishing death on Americans.

If I murdered people again and again, most people would think it was justified to execute me to prevent me from doing it more. If the USA does it again and again, everyone indulges us. Then we get a paper cut (911) and throw a tantrum.

Within our country, we talk about democracy. But when interacting with other countries, we act like a king who can do whatever he wants. That sounds hypocritical to me.

rhetoric about Americans "derserving it"

Personally, I don't think anyone deserves suffering. But, all of us who live in reality have to accept that sometimes there are negative consequences to our actions. Nobody is special enough to avoid this.

Right between you and innocent civilians.

I don't see us as innocent. I think we just prefer to let the government do the dirty work so we FEEL innocent. No price is too high to maintain our lifestyle, as long as someone else pays it. And as long as we don't have to watch the transaction (lives taken/ruined by our government in our name) we aren't bothered.

Since we want to feel innocent and not hypocritical, we go into denial mode whenever we see evidence of our government crossing the line. We want the benefits.

I see the US as having been hijacked by a bunch of criminals, who care for nothing but their own continued powertrip.

That is why the rest of us should pressure our state governments to follow Vermont's lead and secede from the Union.

Drunk commies, are the lives of innocent children cheap? Do you think it is OK that the USA passes laws allowing orphans and foreign children to be experimented on with chemicals?

Here in NYC, where we can see what is going on, recent surveys show that more than 25% of New Yorkers believe the government was behind 911. More than 50% believe the government knew it was going to happen, and didn't stop it.
And your proof of all these wild allegations would be???

And your proof of all these wild allegations would be???

Which allegation?

The suggestion that lives of orphan children are cheap is based on the sequence of posts? Trausti posted about the testing, and your immediate reply was that some lives were valuable and others cheap. I didn't think you really meant children were cheap. I just wanted to clarify.

The percentages of New Yorkers? I don't remember which newspaper I saw that in on what day. It was probably 2 or 3 months ago. I was very surprised by the numbers, since I didn't think people were so prone to doubting the official story. Because of my surprise, the info stuck in my memory. I am not the best researcher, so I don't think I could find that article again. Maybe someone more skilled than me will try.

And your proof of all these wild allegations would be???

Well the 25% thinking the US govt was behind it... I find hard to believe.

But the 50% thinking that the US govt (or probably more accurately- the intelligence agencies) could have but didn't prevent it- is a theory that has done the rounds of academia now for the past few years, especially so given the 9/11 Commission Report and has gained ground.

I've never said that the lives of children are cheap. In response to the allegation that the government will be testing pesticides on children, I'd like to see a document from a government agency, not a link to a website that promotes organic food. They've got an agenda to ban pesticides, and I don't trust them to report accurately.

As for the people in NYC who think the government was behind 9/11, do they have any real evidence? I haven't seen any. I've seen crackpot websites that clearly have their facts wrong and sometimes contradict their own statements. Just because a percentage of the population believes something to be true doesn't make it true.

2 wrongs don't always make a right, but in the real world you've sometimes got to pick the lesser of two evils. Pacifism isn't going to defeat caliphist islamists.

Three thousand people dead, a blow to our economy, and the threat of more attacks is not a papercut. The USA doesn't always act in a perfect ethical manner, but it doesn't target civilians. Notice the use of smart bombs and the warnings given to the civilian population before the attack on Fallujiah? Osama and other islamist radicals almost always intentionally target civilians. The 9/11 attack was not justified.

So American civilians aren't innocent because the government does some unethical things. By extension of that logic wouldn't all Muslims be guilty because some Muslim organizations do horrible things? Are you going to condem all Muslims as well or are you a hypocrite?

Why secede from the Union? What's to be gained except civil war, a ruined economy, suffering and death? It's better to work within the nation, use free speech and the right to free assembly and the vote to make this country better.

Pacifism isn't going to defeat caliphist islamists.

Maybe not, but doesn't aggression create more of them?

So American civilians aren't innocent because the government does some unethical things. By extension of that logic wouldn't all Muslims be guilty because some Muslim organizations do horrible things? Are you going to condem all Muslims as well or are you a hypocrite?

There is a difference between a government and an organization.

If the US government kills people, and the citizens stand around patting themselves on the back because their government is so excellent, and decide that the government is SO excellent that it is unnecessary for the people to continue to monitor it, then the citizens are choosing ignorance and to unleash a huge power without any checks. In that case, we are responsible for the actions of the huge power that we unleashed.

If you and I form an organization and kill people, the picture is very different. Nobody granted us the authorization to kill. Nobody then has a responsibility to monitor our use of that power.

All I am really saying is that in a democratic system where the leaders are accountable to the people, if the people don't hold them to account the people are responsible.

If my boss gives me authority to sign company checks, then he has a responsibility to the company to monitor me and make sure I am not doing anything wrong. If I steal a million dollars, he will be in trouble for giving me that authority.

I guess what bothers me the most is that people don't care to know what their government is doing.

This is supposed to be a democracy, not a monarchy or dictatorship. Both Thomas Jefferson and JFK spoke about the need for people to be vigilant in monitoring the government so that democracy can be maintained.

Now I see people everywhere who either don't care, or feel like it is OK for the government to do what it wants. They don't feel a responsibility, as citizens, to be a check on that huge power the government has.

So, I think the government realizes it can get away with many things. The second administration of GWB has been called frequently the Administration of Embarrassments. After each embarrassing thing (like the DSM) I hear people say "This is the end for Bush" but it blows over and people don't care. The government realizes people will tolerate a lot before we take any action. And they realize we love the concept of our government, our idea of what it should be, and don't want to hurt it. So, they slowly advance some kind of agenda of consolidating their power and wealth. What are they up to? I don't know. But it is our responsibility to find out and hold them accountable.

If this system fails to fulfil its potential, it is our fault. We are being apathetic.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I am a patriot. And I am saddened by the overwhelming majority of people making a treasonous choice to be ignorant of what is going on. It is their duty, and they are letting all of us down.

Maybe not, but doesn't aggression create more of them?



There is a difference between a government and an organization.

If the US government kills people, and the citizens stand around patting themselves on the back because their government is so excellent, and decide that the government is SO excellent that it is unnecessary for the people to continue to monitor it, then the citizens are choosing ignorance and to unleash a huge power without any checks. In that case, we are responsible for the actions of the huge power that we unleashed.

If you and I form an organization and kill people, the picture is very different. Nobody granted us the authorization to kill. Nobody then has a responsibility to monitor our use of that power.

All I am really saying is that in a democratic system where the leaders are accountable to the people, if the people don't hold them to account the people are responsible.

If my boss gives me authority to sign company checks, then he has a responsibility to the company to monitor me and make sure I am not doing anything wrong. If I steal a million dollars, he will be in trouble for giving me that authority.
1) Not neccessarily. If used properly violence can motivate nations to eliminate the terrorists in their midst before the US does it for them. That's why Afghanistan was a good step in fighting terrorism, and Iraq was counterproductive. Iraq didn't harbor terrorists.

2) Organizations like HAMAS for example are supported by the civilian population and actually get a high percentage of votes in Palestinian elections. Other terrorist organizations get donations and support from civilians. Sure it's not like a democratically elected government, but those groups would not exist, or would be much smaller and weaker without public support.

Why secede from the Union? What's to be gained except civil war, a ruined economy, suffering and death? It's better to work within the nation, use free speech and the right to free assembly and the vote to make this country better.

That is what Vermont did. Sometime in late October, I don't remember the exact date, but I can look it up if someone wants, the House of Representatives of the state of Vermont voted to pass a resolution to secede. They said they didn't want to support what was going on in the Federal administration anymore. They expected Maine and New Hampshire to follow, I believe the spokesman said, and they hoped the 3 of them would be able to form their own union. They thought the US wouldn't care much, since VT doesn't have much resources or industry.

About working within a nation, I guess it is hard to do when the masses who choose ignorance are voting. If you propose a good idea, all it takes is for a guy who looks good in a suit and has media connections to appear on every channel telling us all in a very sincere-sounding and charismatic way that someone is trying to kill us and only doing whatever he says will save us. Then the masses pour into the voting booths and your idea is overrun.

Until the masses get their act together and face their duty to know what is going on and make thier opinion heard, trying to work within the system is useless. So, a good campaign to improve our USA would be to get the message out that people need to be vigilant.

Iraq was counterproductive. Iraq didn't harbor terrorists.

Not to mention that Iraq was almost completely secular before, and now they are considering Sharia law.

Organizations like HAMAS for example are supported by the civilian population and actually get a high percentage of votes in Palestinian elections. Other terrorist organizations get donations and support from civilians. Sure it's not like a democratically elected government, but those groups would not exist, or would be much smaller and weaker without public support.

What remains to be seen is what the people do if they DO elect Hamas at some point. If Hamas does something objectionable, will the people take action against it? or rationalize it away like we Americans do? Will they give Hamas free reign to do watever they want? Will they do nothing while Hamas takes advantage of them and makes laws limiting their freedoms?

The reality is that the average person in any country just wants to live in peace. They will tolerate some level of inconvenience and atrocities from their goverment, to maintain their personal peace. But, for everyone and for every country there is a breaking point. That is when the people begin to demand either change, or that someone be held accountable. I think for the US that breaking point is amazingly far. I would have expected the opposite. Do people really have so much to lose by demanding the government behave themselves? Or are they lazy?

I understand that our education and media support the idea that we NEED the government, that we are dependent and therefore need to protect it. I remember as a child being taught that the US is the only country with freedom of speech, and with a standard of living that is tolerable. Everyone else is in a constant state of suffering. Now I know enough about conditions in other countries to see that it is not really true. The media would have me believe that without government making laws and police to enforce them, you would kill me and take my stuff. In fact, everyone would want to kill me all the time, so I would need to stay awake 24 hours a day with a machine gun in hand to protect myself. I now know enough about human nature to know that you probably wouldn't kill me. Most people don't want to do bad things. The law is not what prevents them from killing me. The fear of being caught is not what prevents them from killing me. it is their own morality. What I am getting at is I think the citizens of the US feel like they need to protect the government at all costs. If the government is doing something they don't like, they will ignore it because they are convinced they need the government to survive. People don't realize the power they have to take care of themselves.

Just to make things clear. I live in the United States and from my point of view, and the point of view of many of the people that i have had the pleasure of talking to from not only my home town but all across the nation, we do not like President Bush. I personally voted for "The Other Guy" (i.e Kerry). Kerry wanted to pull out of Iraq and Afganistan because it was a sate of the taxpayers money.

Many people here in the United States wish that George W. Bush was never put into office again, so don't blame all of us who live in the US for this, we had nothing to do with it.

While Bush may not have sufficient evidence to justify Iraq (Debatable), I feel Afghanistan was completely justified.

As for pulling out, while I support getting out of there quickly, leaving before the job is done is going to create a place that is worse than Afghanistan for harbouring terrorists. Indeed the terrorists will probably seize control

Not to mention that Iraq was almost completely secular before, and now they are considering Sharia law.

But the difference is the majority of Iraqis are considering it, not just crackpot radicals. Sharia Law is based on Islamic priciples, just as Western Laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles. Thus it is reasonable that Islamic countries consider Sharia law, just as Australia has western law

DON'T FEED THE TROLL
lol and drunk commies should really know better

But the difference is the majority of Iraqis are considering it, not just crackpot radicals. Sharia Law is based on Islamic priciples, just as Western Laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles. Thus it is reasonable that Islamic countries consider Sharia law, just as Australia has western law

I agree with you 100%. I was just thinking about it from the point of view of the US government, which claims to be ridding the world of Islamic Fundamentalists. In that case, they pushed Iraq the wrong way on the scale.

Of course I don't really believe that the US government feels very threatened by Islam.

Aussies are too relaxed to notice!

Aussies are too relaxed to notice!

Being relaxed is better for your health. People here in the US work too much, stress too much, take antidepressants too much. Everybody I know is anxious.

All of those negative stress hormones cause so many health problems.