NationStates Jolt Archive

Does anyone else think that Christmas is a pain in the arse? I mean:

1. it effectively starts in September (here at least)
2. we have to buy presents for half the world (in many cases, for people we don't even like that much)
3. children get spoilt beyond comprehension (I've no problem with them getting presents per se, but the sheer amount some get is shocking)
4. giant corporations make obscene amounts of money from this time of year alone (I essentially believe in capitalism, but even I think it's ridiculous),
5. poor sods get stressed to hell trying to buy presents and trimmings in insanely crowded shops
6. another poor sod stresses themself out cooking a turkey and all its trimmings
7. many people are forced to see their extended family and put up with all the mortifying questions ("Have you not got yourself a boy/girlfriend yet?" / "When are you two getting married?" / "When will all the little ones be arriving?!"),
8. blindly inebriated people fall in front of you as you walk down the footpath
9. possibly worst of all, for the majority of people, its true meaning is lost.

I'm not a Christian - far from it, as many of you will know - but I think if we are to actively celebrate Christmas, we should acknowledge why we are doing so. I personally choose not to actively celebrate it precisely because I am not religious, but many non-Christians do.

What do you think? Is it really worth all the hassle that goes with it, just for one day?

As an atheist with vaguely anti-capitalist tendencies, I have two reasons to hate Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas, but I do organise virtual Winter Solstice celebrations (no presents though) just to prove I'm not opposed to parties.

Does anyone else think that Christmas is a pain in the arse? I mean:

1. it effectively starts in September (here at least)
That is annoying
2. we have to buy presents for half the world (in many cases, for people we don't even like that much)
So don't
3. children get spoilt beyond comprehension (I've no problem with them getting presents per se, but the sheer amount some get is shocking)
That's a problem with the parents not the holiday
4. giant corporations make obscene amounts of money from this time of year alone (I essentially believe in capitalism, but even I think it's ridiculous),
true
5. poor sods get stressed to hell trying to buy presents and trimmings in insanely crowded shops
So don't
6. another poor sod stresses themself out cooking a turkey and all its trimmings
and again, just don't do it
7. many people are forced to see their extended family and put up with all the mortifying questions ("Have you not got yourself a boy/girlfriend yet?" / "When are you two getting married?" / "When will all the little ones be arriving?!"),
I always figure its a good idea to avoid my extended family
8. blindly inebriated people fall in front of you as you walk down the footpath
just gives you something cushiony to step on
9. possibly worst of all, for the majority of people, its true meaning is lost.
What true meaning?
I'm not a Christian - far from it, as many of you will know - but I think if we are to actively celebrate Christmas, we should acknowledge why we are doing so. I personally choose not to actively celebrate it precisely because I am not religious, but many non-Christians do.
good point
What do you think? Is it really worth all the hassle that goes with it, just for one day?
Nope

A lot of your points ring true, but personally I love Christmas - when I was younger it was all about the presents! But now I like it so much because my brother and sister come home, and we have big family dinners, and get to catch up with them properly... my sister lives in Paris and my brother lives in Wisconsin (home is Cork, Ireland!) so needless to say proper family gatherings are a rare occasion!

So don'tI don't, but many do, largely because its expected of them and others would be offended if they did not.

That's a problem with the parents not the holidayAgreed, but it seems to be a Christmas trend rather than a birthday (or other present-giving occasion) one.

So don't...and again, just don't do itSee above.

I always figure its a good idea to avoid my extended familyDefinitely agreed!

just gives you something cushiony to step onFair point I suppose!

What true meaning?The birth of Christ...of course, I appreciate that the date in question was originally a Pagan festival, but most Western societies have come to understand it as something different.

1. it effectively starts in September (here at least)
Yea, that's annoying - and your beloved capitalism is to blame.
2. we have to buy presents for half the world (in many cases, for people we don't even like that much)
I'm not being forced to do anything like that, and thus don't.
3. children get spoilt beyond comprehension (I've no problem with them getting presents per se, but the sheer amount some get is shocking)
Agreed. Though not all families believe that huge amounts of plastic shit equals caring for your offspring.
4. giant corporations make obscene amounts of money from this time of year alone (I essentially believe in capitalism, but even I think it's ridiculous).
So boycott them. I do.
5. poor sods get stressed to hell trying to buy presents and trimmings in insanely crowded shops
Eh? Why bother with the shit then?
6. another poor sod stresses themself out cooking a turkey and all its trimmings
Schizo as that poor sod may be, it's still possible to ask friends & family to help out. That's what I do anyway.
7. many people are forced to see their extended family and put up with all the mortifying questions ("Have you not got yourself a boy/girlfriend yet?" / "When are you two getting married?" / "When will all the little ones be arriving?!"),
Beats not having a family that cares, I wager. But what does this have to do with Christmas?
8. blindly inebriated people fall in front of you as you walk down the footpath
Sadly people don't do that here. Would make for a nice change, I think.
9. possibly worst of all, for the majority of people, its true meaning is lost.
It doesn't have a 'true meaning'. Haven't had that for the better part of a millenia, if ever.
At least now people don't nessecarily celebrate bogus rituals as a replacement for a pagan holiday.

Definitely agreed!
but, but you don't even know my family....









Oh, you were saying that it was a good idea to avoid your's too... my bad
The birth of Christ...of course, I appreciate that the date in question was originally a Pagan festival, but most Western societies have come to understand it as something different.
The birth of of who? :rolleyes:
seriously, though I was referring to the fact that it has lost any real meaning that it ever had

I disagree entirely. Yes, the commercialisation part can be a pain in the arse, but Christmas brings a lot of colour and fun to an otherwise depressing, dull, miserable and dark time of the year. I'm not a Christian, either, though that has little to do with it.

i like having the time to sit around and relax with the family :)
i like it being cold (and preferably snowy) outside, but cozy and warm inside, and having the time to appreciate it
i like open log fires
i like turkey :P

i like some aspects of christmas, and pretty much ignore the rest. i don't watch much tv so i don't get innundated with christmas ads, i don't go to town that much (to shop... yay for amazon.co.uk ;)) so i avoid most of the christmas shit there, and i put up with the supermarket's christmas merchandising.
it can only bug you if you let it

and frankly i'm aware of the religious connotations toward the day (as if one couldn't be), but i couldn't care less... its a national holiday so i say celebrate! :D

Dunno what the fuss is about... christmas is pretty cool and I don't understand the part about stressing out :cool: Going out two days before xmas eve buying all the presents (ie, dad, mom, brothers and perhap a mate or two) doesn't take very long or isn't especially stressing (especially not if you got a sense of humor with the presents). It's also one of the few times my brothers manage to get their asses back to Sweden :mad: The food part also never creates a problem.. infact it's usually very relaxed (mmmmm warm xmas ham sandwich *drool*)..

Now if you DO think there's a problem with stressing out with buying presents and preparing dinner... it's not as if you got lack of time (*cough* 12 months?) to buy the presents, and the food can easily be solved by going out to a restaurant (as if there wasn't enough of those around).

Regarding the "true meaning" of xmas... well screw that, we got loads of celebrations that we do even though we got no idea why we originally had them (and just try to take away midsummers eve celebrations and I'll whack thee :D)... xmas is a time where you can meet people that are close to you, and if no one from your family is close to you? meet ya friends and give them a gstring for xmas present, I'm sure they'll appreciate it ;)

uh, I rambled on, anyways xmas = good food, nice people and hopefully a good few laughs from the presents (yes you can't mention xmas without mentioning presents BUT they are hardly the main event of the evening...)

I enjoy Christmas itself, because it means our family gets together, has a good meal & a good time. I hate the build-up, the way the decorations & stuff appears in the shops sometime in September, the excessive spending.

Forgot to mention this but I really don't mind the build up... heck I quite like it and wish it started sooner... Let me explain, to begin with it gives me something to look forward to, secondly, the earlier it begins the earlier those damned christmas lights come out on the streets (it's bloody dark in Sweden during winter) so you don't go home in TOTAL darkness :)

I hate christmas. It's not the idea of it... It's just that it's one more thing dear old dad gets to control.

Ugh.

I don't want my kids to sit on the lap of an alcholic, fat paedophilic german (St.Nicholas!!) who will give them a puppy if they tell him all their secrets...dodgy!!

I don't want my kids to sit on the lap of an alcholic, fat paedophilic german (St.Nicholas!!) who will give them a puppy if they tell him all their secrets...dodgy!!


PLUS Santa Claus is an anagram of SATAN SUCLA!!! Christians Take Note!

You're just whinging because they haven't put the tree up at the City Hall yet and it's already half way through November ;)

I jest. That's a Very Good Thing.

You're just whinging because they haven't put the tree up at the City Hall yet and it's already half way through November ;)

I jest. That's a Very Good Thing.Meh. Stupid thing. As if seeing Eamonn bloody Holmes switching on the lights adorning some over-sized green phallic symbol is positive ;)

...your beloved capitalism is to blameBeloved?! I think capitalism is a load of shit, actually; I simply believe it's the only workable economic system we have. There's clearly a difference. It's like that old Churchill quote - "Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others" - except applied to economics.

Agreed. Though not all families believe that huge amounts of plastic shit equals caring for your offspring.I know that, and kudos to them. I don't even think that those that do buy so much consider it a substitute for proper care of one's family, but some fail to see that the more one gets, the more one (usually) will expect.

Eh? Why bother with the shit then?As stated, I don't. But that's only me; plenty of people do, and I would wager that certainly a large minority, if not a majority, do so out of convention and expectation, rather than because they actively wish to do so. I understand that many people enjoy this, and that's up to them. I just don't think all people do, but feel they're letting others down if they don't partake in the ritual.

Beats not having a family that cares, I wager. But what does this have to do with Christmas?Each to their own, but I don't hold to all this 'blood is thicker than water' crap. Family is genetics; friendship is earned. I don't care for my family just because I am related to them - those that matter to me do so because I get on with them anyway. Therefore, if those that I am not actually friendly with for reasons such as common interests don't care about me, then I am not bothered.

What does it have to do with Christmas? Simply that, for some families, Christmas means reunions of the extended members of those families. It is not uncommon for people not to see members of their extended families much throughout the rest of the year.

I used to hate Christmas, but that was when I was young, and the only reason was that my Birthday was so close (it's December 21st) nobody would ever come to my party because we were already on winter break so they would forget, or worse people had scheduled Christmas stuff on my birthday.
One year my mom even bought me a birthday cake one year with a snow man on it and a gingerbread house it said "Merry Birthday and Happy Christmas"

but, I have since realized that I was young, petty and selfish. I am no longer young, and I am less selfish, still petty, but I am working on that one.


Christmas this year is going to be special for my family, I like the whole idea of it better now that I have kids.

They are only getting 3 presents each from us, and we are doing an advent tree, and I am going to bake cookies to give to friends and everything. :D

I do get annoyed with the people who start Christmas in the summer (which is pretty rampant around here) We even have a store that sells nothing but Christmas stuff, and it is open year round, and busy year round, some people put so much crap up that it is just disgusting.


I read an article yesterday talking about how you need 100 lights for every foot of tree, that's 600 lights for my 6ft tree!!!!!!!!!!
I have 250 lights for my tree, and I think that is quite enough, popcorn garland, home made ornaments, and a non-blinky angel on top.
Sure it's a simple tree, but everything is symbolic, and it only takes 30 min to decorate :D

sorry for the confusing post, I think I drank too much soda already today.:eek:

Christmas is a really great time for my family, so I do love it.

I dont like the cold, wet snow. I could see myslef in the tropics listening to Jimmy Buffet with a christmas tree on the beach

I cant stand when Christmas sales and advertising starts the week after halloween. I was in a store last week and Christmas music was playing. I hate that dilution of the spirit-it cheapens the whole thing.

While eight flying reindeer are a hard pill to swallow, our Christmas story remains relatively dull. Santa lives with his wife in a remote polar village and spends one night a year travelling around the world. If you're bad, he leaves you coal. If you're good and live in America, he'll give you just about anything you want. We tell our children to be good and send them off to bed, where they lie awake, anticipating their great bounty. A Dutch parent has a decidedly hairier story to relate, telling his children, "Listen you might want to pack a few of your things together before going to bed. The former bishop of Turkey will be coming tonight with six to eight black men. They might put some candy in your shoes, they might stuff you into a sack and take you to Spain, or they might just pretend to kick you. We don't know for sure, but we want you to be prepared."

--David Sedaris (from Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim)

I don't particularly like it. All in all, though, I'm fairly indifferent, mainly because I'm greedy (I'm human, ok?) and I get presents. However, this year my parents have come up with a novel idea - as I'm vegetarian, and I don't like Xmas, I should get a job on the 25th December, and get paid massively inflated amounts of money. Or I could just stay in bed...
Last year in all the Christmas cards I sent, I crossed out 'Xmas/Christmas' inside the card and left it saying 'Happy/Merry capitalist/Christian bastardisation of a pagan winter solstice festival' (and a happy new year). It's not so much that I care, just I was fed up with people telling me it was the season of goodwill.
How is a season when it's freezing cold and generally raining the season of goodwill? The season of goodwill is spring, when it's not too hot, not too cold, not too wet, and not too dry. Be happy, people.

Christmas is a lot different for me now that I have kids of my own. Of course, as a kid, Christmas was wicked awesome...as I got older, things like that kind of faded. For me, Christmas is exciting because I get to see my whole family together, which doesn't happen that much anymore...and now with my girls, it's something to prepare for and make exciting. But that damn tree isn't going up in my house until after the 15th...forget this November or 1st of December crap. Sheesh.

I love buying presents for people, but I really want everyone to stop getting me shit. I have everything I need...seriously. I don't collect 'things', and there is really nothing else material I want. Give my kids stuff, but please not toys. Books. Musical instruments...dance lessons, something useful. The last thing they need are more toys. In fact, let's scrap the whole gift-giving crap and just spend time together.

I really love it, and I wouldn't miss it for anything.
OK, I spent it twice at the hospital, and that was even worse than the sickness itself (which was not that bad...)

Usually on the 24th we travel to my parents (Amsterdam->Paris (http://www22.mappy.com/sidcqrK/EiimX/Mn21w/CFGT?anchor=0&option=0&csl=i3%2Cv4%2Cv5%2Cv6%2Cv9%2Cv2%2Ci4&fsl=i3%2Cv4%2Cv5%2Cv6%2Cv9%2Cv2%2Ci4&gsl=i3%2Cv4%2Cv5%2Cv6%2Cv9%2Cv2%2Ci4&isl=i0&xsl=2&out=2&issl=i3&iesl=i4&ivsl1=v4&ivsl2=v5&ivsl3=v6&ivsl4=v9&ivsl5=v2&iveh=car&isveh=midcar&wni3=&wci3=&noi3=&tni3=amsterdam&pci3=&tci3=&a10i3=&cci3=528&wni4=&wci4=&noi4=&tni4=paris&pci4=&tci4=&a10i4=&cci4=250&imode=0&wnv4=&wcv4=&nov4=&tnv4=&pcv4=&tcv4=&a10v4=&ccv4=250&wnv5=&wcv5=&nov5=&tnv5=&pcv5=&tcv5=&a10v5=&ccv5=250&wnv6=&wcv6=&nov6=&tnv6=&pcv6=&tcv6=&a10v6=&ccv6=250&wnv9=&wcv9=&nov9=&tnv9=&pcv9=&tcv9=&a10v9=&ccv9=250&wnv2=&wcv2=&nov2=&tnv2=&pcv2=&tcv2=&a10v2=&ccv2=250&order=0&x=20&y=5)) and we spend a quiet evening (a raclette (http://www.raclette-fondue.com/html/raclette-cheese.html), typically...) with just my parents, my sister, and the matching [boy|girl]friends. Usually we set the tree (the smell of it... the memories!)

The big party is for the 25th; cousins and aunts and grand-parents and friends. Usually around 20-25 people. Mum and her sisters are cooking, while the boys are setting the table.
We start the drinks at usually 1PM and we exchange the gifts at this moment. Then lunch itself at around 2:30PM (and mum complains because once again the capon (http://www.foodreference.com/html/fcapon.html) is over-cooked), and we are done with it at around 5PM.
Some games come around, and the 1st guests are leaving at 7PM to go to the other branch of their respective families.
We usually finish, about 10 of us, at midnight, drunk with champagne, which is good; no hangover the day after.

All-in-all, there is no mention of Christ or whatever.
My mother is still setting the crèche (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~akc/Creche/stone.htm), but hers has a basque design and it is just for the colours.
This is sometimes the only opportunity in the year to see the whole familly, and this is why it is so good.
It is even better if we have snow, but I think the last time was in 1987.

Give my kids stuff, but please not toys. Books. Musical instruments...dance lessons, something useful. The last thing they need are more toys. In fact, let's scrap the whole gift-giving crap and just spend time together.
I am short on money this year (big surprise :rolleyes: ) so I am thinking of giving out smunkee cupons to my friends (free friday night babysitting, free movie with smunkee whenever you need out of the house night, ect.):D

Christmas:
Since I'm both German and American, I got to celebrate it twice every year, once German-style the evening of the 24th and once American-style the morning of the 25th. It was really special compared to all the other American or German kids at my school. :D

I hate the whole Christian theft of a Pagan holiday, very much. However, I do think it's a spiffy thing to give and receive gifts, and the whole spirit (in theory) about the holiday is giving to your fellow man is a great thing.

I like some of that cheery, snowy holiday feeling. As a jew, It does sometimes get you a mite lonely when you are a kid and everyone else is celebrating christmas. Not so hard for me, but I live in New York, which of course is MUCH more alternate holiday friendly. For my dad, growing up in rural NE Wisconsin in the 50s/60s, it was obviously much worse...

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/bottom/images/2003/june25/grinch.jpg

I am short on money this year (big surprise :rolleyes: ) so I am thinking of giving out smunkee cupons to my friends (free friday night babysitting, free movie with smunkee whenever you need out of the house night, ect.):D
Side effect of having a family is "short on money".

My wife and I forgo presents for each other, and try to get the kids longer lasting and more meaningful, practical gifts (books, etc). No video games, no battery operated toys.

We do, however, try to do the whole holiday spirit thing, complete with the ritual letters to Santa, decorating the house, caroling with friends, eggnog, etc.

And the church's Christmas show, etc...

Christmas is just one more day of freezing your balls off.

My parents used to fight like rabid chimpanzes every Christmas. Not fun. Predictable at least. I've never had a problem with Christmas entirely. The problem now is that my son's b-day is in December as well, so December = broke. I refuse to just blend his b-day with Christmas which is my own damn fault. If Christmas drives you nuts, watch this! It always makes me laugh at any rate.

http://rds.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Aj.X8QgJjtwCi3xN1efygjtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTBwdXJwbHBnBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3I-/SIG=12ardrtg9/EXP=1132336180/**http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newgrounds.com%2Fportal%2Fview%2F140857

Oh dear - this is a tad depressing. Am I the only one here who actually celebrates Christmas for being a celebration of the birth of Christ? Who cares if it might not be the exact day that He was born? That's as pedantic as people who start up whole new denominations of the church and kick up massives fusses over the tiniest little interpretation of anything.

Don't get me wrong I like Christmas because obviously getting presents is cool, and spending the time with family and friends that I rarely see is fantastic, and the food rocks, but come on people, there's more to it than that. And who cares that the dates stolen from a Pagan holiday? It's just a date!

Ah well, if I could force people to believe things I do the world would be CHristian, but as I can't :D

Side effect of having a family is "short on money".
that's the truth, two kids will clean your bank account out every single time ;)

My wife and I forgo presents for each other, and try to get the kids longer lasting and more meaningful, practical gifts (books, etc). No video games, no battery operated toys.
My husband and I don't really do presents for eachother either, not on Christmas, Anniversary, or even Birthdays. We prefer to spend time with eachother.
I try to make sure that any toys I get my kids are what I call "pretend" toys, that is they have to imagine to play with them (dolls, kitchen sets, blocks, books, ect.) They get enough "push the button and zone out" toys from everyone else

'Tis the season to be jolly

Lalalalalaaa la laa la laaaaaa :D

I just use Christmas as an excuse to wear my mistletoe belt buckle.

Oh dear - this is a tad depressing. Am I the only one here who actually celebrates Christmas for being a celebration of the birth of Christ? Who cares if it might not be the exact day that He was born? That's as pedantic as people who start up whole new denominations of the church and kick up massives fusses over the tiniest little interpretation of anything.

I do. I am doing an advent tree this year, I have the entire nativity scene and each night we will unwrap someone (Mary, Joseph, sheep) and I have scripture picked out to go along with it, so we have a Bible study every night and then we hang it on the tree. It is really neat. I have 12 things that go on the tree so it is kinda like the 12 days of Christmas theme too.

I am phasing out Santa, I didn't want to do it anyway, I don't like to lie to my kids, they are only getting 1 present this year from santa, and next year I hope to have enough family tradition that they don't notice him at all.

I don't even celebrate and it's not even December, and I'm already broke. A Advice to those who wish to continue ignoring xmas due to religious beliefs: Do Not marry a Christian.

I just use Christmas as an excuse to wear my mistletoe belt buckle.

Brilliant! You should patent that... [ unless its been done ] * gives cluich a cookie/brownie*

Brilliant! You should patent that... [ unless its been done ] * gives cluich a cookie/brownie*

I'm sure it has.

'Tis the season to be jolly

Lalalalalaaa la laa la laaaaaa :D:mp5: Bah, humbug!

:p

Oh dear - this is a tad depressing. Am I the only one here who actually celebrates Christmas for being a celebration of the birth of Christ?

No, you're not the only one. But we pile a lot of other traditions on top.

As a Christian, I love Christmas. I know it was co-opted from a pagan holiday, which some Christians have told me is a reason we shouldn't celebrate it, but I think what matters is what you are celebrating, not when you celebrate it. For me, Jesus was the greatest gift of all, so I love celebrating it this time of year. I would love it even if it were another time of year. I agree that the hassle of trying to figure out who would be offended if they didn't get a gift or a card or a gift card is a bit overwhelming at times, but I still love the season.

Olara']As a Christian, I love Christmas. I know it was co-opted from a pagan holiday, which some Christians have told me is a reason we shouldn't celebrate it, but I think what matters is what you are celebrating, not when you celebrate it. For me, Jesus was the greatest gift of all, so I love celebrating it this time of year. I would love it even if it were another time of year. I agree that the hassle of trying to figure out who would be offended if they didn't get a gift or a card or a gift card is a bit overwhelming at times, but I still love the season.

Thank you! And thank Smunkeeville as well for restoring my faith (how ironic :D) in the good people of NS General - and the rest of you are just a bunch of band wagon jumpin', commercialisin', Jesus stealin' capitalists :p (just kiddin by the way, you guys rock)

the rest of you are just a bunch of band wagon jumpin', commercialisin', Jesus stealin' capitalists :p Tut tut! I was defending Christmas as a Christian celebration in this shite ;)

(just kiddin by the way, you guys rock):) Have a fluffle :fluffle:

Tut tut! I was defending Christmas as a Christian celebration in this shite ;)

:) Have a fluffle :fluffle:

You were? Oops, sorry *blush* I musta missed you out *apologises profusely* In which case - thank you Kazcaper too!

And also, hooray! You have just given me my first ever fluffle! :fluffle: Thanks Kazcaper, I'll remember this :)

I dislike it becuase I have such a disfunctional family that there isn't a christmas anymore. I was brought up in a pagan/catholic home. I was taught both traditions and to respoect both traditions. Christmas stars for me on the winter solstice and ends the day after boxing day by ceremoniously taking down the christmas tree which is usually dominated by white lights and then one other traditional colour...lately with my family though that one other colour has been blue. One gift is give on the winter solstice and we have a big feast and we have a yule log and re-emacct the 'dance' of the holly and the ivy and read the story of the green man.
And of course there's drinking.
The catholic part for me is church and i see the similarities the between the body and blood of christ and the cakes and ale rituals, and the symbolism of having a tree in nature to bring new life. Jesus being born to me at that time is a hope of new life to come. I doubt highly that he was born on dec. 25.
That's a little bit about my christmas beliefs.
there's a lot of baking of cookies, and cakes, and sugarplums, and stuff like that too...mostly by me.

I like the idea of celibrating and goodwill toward others. for me, the festival is more that of the winter solstice. the change from long nights and the path toward spring. I should mention that I'm not a big fan of winter.

my feelings on the festival is compatible with those of christians who choose to observe it as the birth of christ. I feel no need to celibrate the birth of christ although I always take the time to reflect on what he tried to teach the world during this period.

all this said, I dispise the commerical/capitalist orgy that occurs. I have no tolerance of santa claus or his vile trappings. that which is taught by this false prophet and his elvish and reindeer ilk is diameterically oppossed to all that is good about this holiday.

people stressed out over making the right impression, people giving presents based on some perverse accounting hierarchy, billboards pasted with propaganda stating I'll enjoy peace, harmony, and love if I buy their product - all these things cheapen the event and leave me perplexed, wondering if the majority actually understand the meaning of the festival at all.

the most difficult thing I have to enduring is a collection of people pretending to be nice and good for a couple of weeks when they're miserable and horrid the rest of the year.

You were? Oops, sorry *blush* I musta missed you out *apologises profusely* In which case - thank you Kazcaper too!No problem :) I was saying in the first post that while I myself am not at all religious, I think it's shocking that Christmas is not much celebrated as a religious festival these days given that that is what it's meant to be (in our modern, Western societies anyway). I disagree with people like myself (ie. atheists) choosing to celebrating it (although I also appreciate that familial and other pressures don't always give people much of a choice), because we don't believe in what it's meant to signify. It is, however, celebrated as an excuse for presents and drinking among many non-Christians, which is a cause of personal annoyance. Christians, like yourself, that celebrate it for what it's meant to be have every right to do so, in my humble opinion :)

And also, hooray! You have just given me my first ever fluffle! :fluffle: Thanks Kazcaper, I'll remember this :)You're welcome :) Glad to be the first bearer of a fluffle into someone's life!