NationStates Jolt Archive

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]

* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are generally associated with the right and left wings of the political spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo. famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000 "surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8 million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the 1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989): 642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20 million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50% higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in 1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20 million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine, executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse, Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?) cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M

# Second World War (1937-45): 55 000 000 [make link]

* Total:
o It's the most intensively studied event of the 20th Century, so the margin of error is not quite a wide here as for most of the other wars and oppressions on this page. Most historians agree that the death toll was about 50 million (including wartime atrocities). If you don't believe me, here's just a sampling of the books I have on hand:
+ Haywood: Atlas of World History (1997): 50M
+ Keegan, J., The Second World War (1989): 50M
+ Messenger, The Chronological Atlas of World War Two (1989): 50M
+ The Times Concise Atlas of World History (1988): 50M
+ J.M. Roberts, Twentieth Century (1999): >50M
+ Urlanis: 50M
# Soldiers: 22.0M
# Civilians
* In camps, from Fascist terror: 12.0M
* From hostilites, blockade, epidemics, hunger: 14.5M
* From bombing: 1.5M
+ Dictionary of Military History (1994): 41M
+ Wallechinsky: 40-55M
+ Kinder, The Anchor Atlas of World History (1978): 55M
+ Hammond: 55M
+ Guiness World Records: 56.4M [http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=46252]
+ Sivard, Ruth Leger, World Military and Social Expenditures 1986 (11th ed.): 38,351,000 (1939-45), not incl. 1.8M in Sino-Japanese War (1937-41)
+ Brzezinski:
# Military: 19M
# Civilians, "actual byproduct of hostilities": 20M
# Civilians, Sino-Japanese War: 15M
# Hitler's murders: 17M
# TOTAL: 71M
+ Rummel:
# European War Dead (1939-45): 28,736,000
# Sino-Japanese War Dead (1937-45): 7,140,000
# War-related Democides
* Hitler: 20,946,000
* Stalin: 13,053,000
* Japanese: 5,964,000
* Chinese Nationalist: 5,907,000
* Allied Bombing: 796,000
* Croatian: 655,000
* Tito: 600,000
* Romanian domestic democide: 484,000
* Chinese Communist: 250,000
* Hungarian democide in Yugoslavia: 78,000
* [TOTAL: 48,733,000]
# [TOTAL (1937-45): 84,609,000]
+ AVERAGE
# The MEDIAN of these estimates is 50M.
# If we add up the country-by-country medians (of total death tolls) we get:
* LEVEL 1: 47.35M
o USSR: 20.0M
o China: 10.45M
o Poland: 5.8M
o Germany: 5.5M
o India: 2.15M
o Japan: 1.9M
o Yugoslavia: 1.55M
* LEVEL 2: ca. 3.8M
* LEVEL 3: ca. 0.25M
* TOTAL: 51.4M
# The country-by-country medians for military personnel killed in the war are:
* USSR: 10.0M
* Germany: 3.5M
* China: 2.05M
* Japan: 1.5M
* USA: 0.4M
* Romania: 0.3M
* Yugoslavia: 0.3M
* UK: 0.28M
* Italy: 0.23M
* France: 0.21M
* Hungary: 0.14M
* Poland: 0.125M
* TOTAL: 19.0M

This is in reply to the NS user the pantless hero(I think) from my previous topic "66 questions and answers"

If I had made a topic which glorified Stalin I would probably be praised by the likes of the people who post in the NS forums.

If I had made a topic which glorified Stalin I would probably be praised by the likes of the people who post in the NS forums.

Wrong. Just because most NS posters are not neo-nazis doesn't mean we like all the things that nazis hate.

Wrong. Just because most NS posters are not neo-nazis doesn't mean we like all the things that nazis hate.
Just ignore this thread.

</snip>
This is in reply to the NS user the pantless hero(I think) from my previous topic "66 questions and answers"

If I had made a topic which glorified Stalin I would probably be praised by the likes of the people who post in the NS forums.

Do you have to work to be this assinine, or does it just come naturally?

I will repeat what I said in the other thread.

"They did it too" is not a recognized defense.

I defy you to find me a single stalinist on these boards

If I had made a topic which glorified Stalin I would probably be praised by the likes of the people who post in the NS forums.

My name is Pot. I have an aluminum baseball bat that gets very little use.

Would you like to feel it?

Meh, whatever you want to say about Stalin and Hitler, at least they were men who knew what they were about.

Just ignore this thread.

STOP REPLYING TO MY POSTS YOU SELF HATER

Please, virtually no one here is a Stalinist and given your politics, it's rather hypocritical to criticize Stalinists, anyway.

STOP REPLYING TO MY POSTS YOU SELF HATER

What the fuck?

Did you have a point in posting all of this? The only one I can see is that you are implying that all communist nations are like this.

Ladies, Gentleman. To reply here to this...person is merely giving it fuel to add to its ignorant arguments. It will continue to create threads until it gets a reaction. Please, if you wish to see this stop, ignore it. For the sake of decent historians everywhere, I shall.

Ladies, Gentleman. To reply here to this...person is merely giving it fuel to add to its ignorant arguments. It will continue to create threads until it gets a reaction. Please, if you wish to see this stop, ignore it. For the sake of decent historians everywhere, I shall.

Same here.

I defy you to find me a single stalinist on these boards

There used to be one but I forgot his name.

He wasn't a Stalinist per se, just an authoritarian communist in the same mold. I don't recall ever hearing his views on Stalin.

Wrong. Just because most NS posters are not neo-nazis doesn't mean we like all the things that nazis hate.

... Neo-Nazi sounds so wrong. Use 'National Socialist Anti-Semitismist.' It's the Politically Correct term! Yay for PC! [/sarcasism]

:P Just felt like chipping in something funny.

To contribute something useful... Umh... Can I ask where you gathered these numbers?

There used to be one but I forgot his name.

He wasn't a Stalinist per se, just an authoritarian communist in the same mold. I don't recall ever hearing his views on Stalin.

Yupaenu. He's still around, I think.

Seriously, this is my last post in here. :p

Ladies, Gentleman. To reply here to this...person is merely giving it fuel to add to its ignorant arguments. It will continue to create threads until it gets a reaction. Please, if you wish to see this stop, ignore it. For the sake of decent historians everywhere, I shall.

the fact that Stalins regime murdered 60 million europeans is an ignorrant arguement??

I defy you to find me a single stalinist on these boards
Give me ten minutes and you'll have one.


I may have fascist leanings, I may admire Stalin, I may be cynical, but I'm not a Stalinist. If anything I would have been a Juche Socialist.

Yupaenu. He's still around, I think.

Seriously, this is my last post in here. :p
This thread is like fly-paper, you just can't get away.
Except that it catches NSers instead of flies.
And that it grabs your attention, as opposed to your feet.
And that I doubt any NSers will die over this, unless sheer rage causes Potaria's head to explode.
But other then that, it is exactly the same thing. Sort of.

Yupaenu. He's still around, I think.

Seriously, this is my last post in here. :p

That's the bitch.

Haven't seen him around for a while.

Give me ten minutes and you'll have one.

I may have fascist leanings, I may admire Stalin, I may be cynical, but I'm not a Stalinist. If anything I would have been a Juche Socialist.

Reawy?
http://lumen.georgetown.edu/projects/posterTool/data/users/Kim%20Jong-Il%20-%20Team%20America.jpg

This thread is like fly-paper, you just can't get away.
Except that it catches NSers instead of flies.
And that it grabs your attention, as opposed to your feet.
And that I doubt any NSers will die over this, unless sheer rage causes Potaria's head to explode.
But other then that, it is exactly the same thing. Sort of.

Well, a lot of things cause my head to explode, actually. :p

That's the bitch.

Haven't seen him around for a while.

I tend to think of people of his ilk as purely comical characters.

the fact that Stalins regime murdered 60 million europeans is an ignorrant arguement??

Yes, yes it is.


During Stalin's regime only 10 people and a yak died.


And they were all iindustrial accidents.


Well according to my source, the Institute of Historical Revisionism

Well, a lot of things cause my head to explode, actually. :p
I didn't expect your head exploding to kill you, your species seems to regenerate those fairly proficiently. Rather, I was afraid that the shrapnel might take out a passing bus full of nuns.

I can actually hear the sound of Strauss II being banned.

Yes, yes it is.


During Stalin's regime only 10 people and a yak died.


And they were all iindustrial accidents.


Well according to my source, the Institute of Historical Revisionism
And the Yak had it coming anyway.

And the Yak had it coming anyway.

Dammit, he shouldn't have looked at Yuri like that. :mad:

I didn't expect your head exploding to kill you, your species seems to regenerate those fairly proficiently. Rather, I was afraid that the shrapnel might take out a passing bus full of nuns.
That poor bus...

I can actually hear the sound of Strauss II being banned.

Yes since this is a nazi forum and having a different opinion on the halocaust will make you an EVIL ANTI SEMITE.

grrr damn Strasse II with his DIFFERENT opinion

Strasse II :sniper: to death with him Heil Joesepf Stalin and Abraham Foxman!

:rolleyes:

Yes, yes it is.


During Stalin's regime only 10 people and a yak died.


And they were all iindustrial accidents.


Well according to my source, the Institute of Historical Revisionism

You dirty revisionist! I will personally denounce you to the Central Committee!

(BTW, Stalin did do a marvelous job of kicking the German Army all the way back to Berlin).

Yes since this is a nazi forum and having a different opinion on the halocaust will make you an EVIL ANTI SEMITE.

grrr damn Strasse II with his DIFFERENT opinion

Strasse II :sniper: to death with him Heil Joesepf Stalin and Abraham Foxman!

:rolleyes:

Dance monkey. Dance!

Dance monkey. Dance!

"And now comes the segment on Sprockets when we dance. Would you like to pet my monkey?"

Yes, yes it is.


During Stalin's regime only 10 people and a yak died.


And they were all iindustrial accidents.


Well according to my source, the Institute of Historical Revisionism

LOL .... omg that was awesome. I love you. :fluffle:

You're sadly mistaken if you think Stalinism equals Communism. They are as separate as capitalism and corporatism

And I've never heard anyone claim Stalins regime was "great". Well, apart from Stalin himself.

That poor bus...
The bus is nothing, all those nuns wasted!
Without nuns, who would be eaten by Satanic UberChainsaw Demons? Without nuns, who would populate my sexual fantasies? Without nuns, what kind of world would this be?

Yes since this is a nazi forum and having a different opinion on the halocaust will make you an EVIL ANTI SEMITE.

grrr damn Strasse II with his DIFFERENT opinion

Strasse II :sniper: to death with him Heil Joesepf Stalin and Abraham Foxman!

:rolleyes:

Well, I've never seen anyone but nazis deny the holocaust. You're pretty unique.

Yes since this is a nazi forum and having a different opinion on the halocaust will make you an EVIL ANTI SEMITE.

grrr damn Strasse II with his DIFFERENT opinion

Strasse II :sniper: to death with him Heil Joesepf Stalin and Abraham Foxman!

:rolleyes:
Don't you dare compare Stalin to Hitler. Hitler did it to settle his own personal insanity which was attached to his political agenda. Stalin did it mostly for political reasons.

Yes since this is a nazi forum and having a different opinion on the halocaust will make you an EVIL ANTI SEMITE.

grrr damn Strasse II with his DIFFERENT opinion

Strasse II :sniper: to death with him Heil Joesepf Stalin and Abraham Foxman!

:rolleyes:
Yeah, that's about it.
Are you saying you're not an anti-semite? Because you link to anti-semitic web sites.

Don't you dare compare Stalin to Hitler. Hitler did it to settle his own personal insanity which was attached to his political agenda. Stalin did it mostly for political reasons.

Stalin wasn't the most sane man either Neo. Paranoia and purges much?

Stalin sees all!
http://www.corante.com/mooreslore/archives/images/stalin.jpg

Stalin wasn't the most sane man either Neo. Paranoia and purges much?
Yes, I know that. But as far as insane world leaders with memorable mustaches go, he was megh.

Well, I've never seen anyone but nazis deny the holocaust. You're pretty unique.
Don't you dare compare Stalin to Hitler. Hitler did it to settle his own personal insanity which was attached to his political agenda. Stalin did it mostly for political reasons.
Just don't respond. He's trolling about and you all know why he's doing it. He's trying to prove that everyone here loves Stalin because we don't believe all the "facts" about how the Holocaust never happened.
Don't give him the satisfaction.
And besides...since when does NS respond to OPs more than 10 sentences long?

Stalin sees all!
http://www.corante.com/mooreslore/archives/images/stalin.jpg
Why are his eyes following me...?

Why are his eyes following me...?
Because you forgot to wait until the drugs had worn off to start using the Interweb again.

respond to OPs more than 10 sentences long?
Well, there was that one thread about someone having worms.

Because you forgot to wait until the drugs had worn off to start using the Interweb again.
Right. I forgot.


Heh-heh.




AWESOME....

Because you forgot to wait until the drugs had worn off to start using the Interweb again.
Now it is kinda weird but. Try to move your head around while looking at it, and it really looks like his pupils are following you.
Good work by the artists...:D

Yes, I know that. But as far as insane world leaders with memorable mustaches go, he was megh.

LMAO

I'd be willing to be a Stalinist just to see what Stra - whatever his name is - has to say (LOL)

I can actually hear the sound of Strauss II being banned.
It is like the sound of Chuck Norris' roundhouse kick breaking the sound barrier.

It is like the sound of Chuck Norris' roundhouse kick breaking the sound barrier.
Is this a new fad?

Is this a new fad?
Go to the thread now http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=453944

Is this a new fad?
Yeah, much like how shitting in the streets is a fad in India.

Is this a new fad?
Just make sure he doesn't give you a http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000063E7T.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The bus is nothing, all those nuns wasted!
Without nuns, who would be eaten by Satanic UberChainsaw Demons? Without nuns, who would populate my sexual fantasies? Without nuns, what kind of world would this be?
I said poor bus because it had to transport nuns all its life. I mean it could have been a party-bus, or transport super-models, but it got stuck with nuns.

Two answer your questions:

Treemonsters, schoolgirls, a less religious one.

Apparently the mods have better things to do than lock threads. Begs the question of why they're mods in the first place.

Apparently the mods have better things to do than lock threads. Begs the question of why they're mods in the first place.
When I read this I suddenly had the thought, "Pimp my Mod."
I don't know why.
But now I think I'm going to go pitch it to MTV.

I said poor bus because it had to transport nuns all its life. I mean it could have been a party-bus, or transport super-models, but it got stuck with nuns.
It could have been a school bus, that would be worse. I was imagining it as more of a charter bus though, so it had hope of someday taking on other partners.
Anyway, why the Hell are we arguing about the bus? This is a thread about nuns or something.
Treemonsters
Why would the Demons chase treemonsters? No, the nuns are the best of victims for demons.
schoolgirls,
And what are the creme-de-la-creme of schoolgirls? Catholic ones. Without nuns, no Catholic Schoolgirls. Its like nature, you can't just piss on some of the species without fucking up the whole system.
a less religious one.
It would also be a grim Hellworld with less than a tenth the fun this one has. Even if you partake of different fantasies and movies then I, you want the nuns to stay in business. As long as I am relatively happy on my own, I don't have to grind the world into dust under my booted heel.

Apparently the mods have better things to do than lock threads. Begs the question of why they're mods in the first place.
Oy vey.

Apparently the mods have better things to do than lock threads. Begs the question of why they're mods in the first place.

Seriously, Cahnt. Whats with the personal vendetta against the mods? Do you want to be deleted?

Seriously, Cahnt. Whats with the personal vendetta against the mods? Do you want to be deleted?
I'm just wondering why they're willing to let this sort of trolling go.

I'm just wondering why they're willing to let this sort of trolling go.
Because it has created a great and enlightening debate on the importance of nuns in the world. You can't just stop that.

Because it has created a great and enlightening debate on the importance of nuns in the world. You can't just stop that.
I can't stop finding images.
http://members.cox.net/maxton/nun.jpg







please help.

It could have been a school bus, that would be worse. I was imagining it as more of a charter bus though, so it had hope of someday taking on other partners.
Anyway, why the Hell are we arguing about the bus? This is a thread about nuns or something.
Hey, you were the one who brought up the bus in the first place. That's right I'm passing the blaime and there is nothing you can do about it!

Why would the Demons chase treemonsters? No, the nuns are the best of victims for demons.
I have to agree with you.

And what are the creme-de-la-creme of schoolgirls? Catholic ones. Without nuns, no Catholic Schoolgirls. Its like nature, you can't just piss on some of the species without fucking up the whole system.
Well, I guess you would have to stop fantasizing and accually get laid.

It would also be a grim Hellworld with less than a tenth the fun this one has. Even if you partake of different fantasies and movies then I, you want the nuns to stay in business. As long as I am relatively happy on my own, I don't have to grind the world into dust under my booted heel.
Nuns are fun now? Last I checked they made things less fun--on purpose, too.

Because it has created a great and enlightening debate on the importance of nuns in the world. You can't just stop that.
I'm almost willing to believe that.

Hey, you were the one who brought up the bus in the first place. That's right I'm passing the blaime and there is nothing you can do about it!
Well I'm passing the blame on to Potaria since it was his hyopthetical exploding head that killed the hypothetical bus in the first hypothetical place.
I have to agree with you.
Maybe there is hope for humanity if we can agree on issues as fundamental as this.
Well, I guess you would have to stop fantasizing and accually get laid.
Regretfully, such isn't so easily available. Seems that simply grabbing a woman off the street because you were bored is illegal this century. Now you actually have to have relationships, or at least a hundred dollars or so.
Nuns are fun now? Last I checked they made things less fun--on purpose, too.
I've already illustrated the great fun increase that results from Nuns. Unless you go to a Catholic school, Nuns don't really affect you that much in their non-sexy/non-getting-eaten-by-demons capacities.
If you do go to a Catholic School, then I am torn between pity and jealousy.

I can't stop finding images.
http://members.cox.net/maxton/nun.jpg
Okay, Posi, you can kill that one.
please help.
There is no Hope, my friend. We are all damned men here; the only difference is a matter of time and degrees.

Okay, Posi, you can kill that one.

There is no Hope, my friend. We are all damned men here; the only difference is a matter of time and degrees.
You don't remember me,
but I remember you 't was not so long ago,
you broke my heart in two
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you, you
If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hands of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart,
caused by you, you, you, you, you
Love is not a gadget, love is not a toy
When you find the one you love, he'll fill your heart with joy
If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hands of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you, you
No, no no no now, no, no no (You...)

You don't remember me,
but I remember you 't was not so long ago,
you broke my heart in two
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you, you
If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hands of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart,
caused by you, you, you, you, you
Love is not a gadget, love is not a toy
When you find the one you love, he'll fill your heart with joy
If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hands of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you, you
No, no no no now, no, no no (You...)
Did I accidentally quote someone's lyrics again?
Damn it, I hate it when I make pop culture references like that. I'm supposed to be the one who understands what I was refering to while everyone else is confused, not the other way around.

Bush's ma is a nun. I've fucked her.
And his daughters, simeltaneously.
His ma was better. I want to do his wife next.

You dirty revisionist! I will personally denounce you to the Central Committee!

(BTW, Stalin did do a marvelous job of kicking the German Army all the way back to Berlin).
Throwing 10 -20 million people away(depending on source), burning all your crops behind you, and having the russian winter to kick the shit out of an unprepared enemy will do that.

Edit - Especially when the enemy has invested a greater part of it's resources in the campaign on it's other front.

Well I'm passing the blame on to Potaria since it was his hyopthetical exploding head that killed the hypothetical bus in the first hypothetical place.
Passing the blame never accomplishes anything.

Maybe there is hope for humanity if we can agree on issues as fundamental as this.
I can only hope there is hope for humanity.

Regretfully, such isn't so easily available. Seems that simply grabbing a woman off the street because you were bored is illegal this century. Now you actually have to have relationships, or at least a hundred dollars or so.
The reason you don't have very much sex is because you don't try to have sex. If you applied yourself and got an education from Axe-U. Then you would be able to get yourself a good-looking girl and earn alot of sex. Well at least that's what some capitalist told me.

I've already illustrated the great fun increase that results from Nuns. Unless you go to a Catholic school, Nuns don't really affect you that much in their non-sexy/non-getting-eaten-by-demons capacities.
If you do go to a Catholic School, then I am torn between pity and jealousy.
Then I propose we set a minimum sexyness requirement for all new nuns, and reward the demon that eats the most nuns a week.

Okay, Posi, you can kill that one.
I never wanted to kill the nuns, I just said that a bus could transport people that are much more entertaining than nuns, like supermodels and the Swedish Ski Team.

Stalin took Russia and made it into a industrial giant. I do not condone how he did it though. He killed tens of millions of people in labor camps and killed all of his political enemies. He was very paranoid and routinely(spelling) killed off his senior staff and replaced them. He should be buried in the ground since he was a very evil man who had an agenda.

Edit - Especially when the enemy has invested a greater part of it's resources in the campaign on it's other front.
What in the world are you talking about?

What in the world are you talking about?
The American front. France, Africa, Italy. You know where the other parts of WW2 happened.

What in the world are you talking about?
Germany was fighting in western europe,central italy,and northern africa while the Soviets were only fighting a one frontal war. So its not much of an achievement for the red army to push back the German war machine while it fights on three other fronts.

Passing the blame never accomplishes anything.
Well, it has accomplished our blaiming the Bus argument on Potaria, so that's worth something.
The reason you don't have very much sex is because you don't try to have sex. If you applied yourself and got an education from Axe-U. Then you would be able to get yourself a good-looking girl and earn alot of sex. Well at least that's what some capitalist told me.
Axe Bodyspray is some of the most vile smelling stuff I have encountered in my life. Ugh.
And getting into relationships isn't so much the problem as my complete inability to hold one. As soon as I have something like that I tend to destroy it.
Then I propose we set a minimum sexyness requirement for all new nuns, and reward the demon that eats the most nuns a week.
Of course! You have hit upon the perfect solution. Which is good, because I'd hate to leave an issue like this unsettled while off being away.
I never wanted to kill the nuns, I just said that a bus could transport people that are much more entertaining than nuns, like supermodels and the Swedish Ski Team.
Well, I suppose that is fine, but you did say that the world would be better without nuns, and that isn't very polite. Especially, after their great additions to human culture.

Wait a second....Strasse II thinks the Holocaust was a hoax? HAHAHA I didn't know people were that dumb still.:headbang:

Wait a second....Strasse II thinks the Holocaust was a hoax? HAHAHA I didn't know people were that dumb still.:headbang:
You'd be suprised:rolleyes:

STOP REPLYING TO MY POSTS YOU SELF HATER
STOP POSTING THREADS FOR HIM TO REPLY TO YOU SELF-HATER HATER!!!

The American front. France, Africa, Italy. You know where the other parts of WW2 happened.
Germany was fighting in western europe,central italy,and northern africa while the Soviets were only fighting a one frontal war. So its not much of an achievement for the red army to push back the German war machine while it fights on three other fronts.
Note how he said "the greater part".

At D-Day, Germany had 58 Divisions on the Western Front.
And 239 in the East.

80% of German casualties were in the war against the Soviets.

About June 6th the Red Army started an offensive, which lasted until July 25. In the same time the Allies got their beachhead secured and killed or captured about 116,000 Germans.
The Red Army meanwhile made 600km progress across a 1000km line, taking out more than 500,000 Germans.

You'll excuse me for treating the Western Front as a minor theatre.

What in the world are you talking about?
Kimchi made a comment about Stalin being extremely successful at driving the germans back. He was primarily able to do so because of the split use of resources by the germans and the debilitating effects on his army of the russian winter. Had German just gone after Russia than the outcome would very much have been in doubt.

STOP POSTING THREADS FOR HIM TO REPLY TO YOU SELF-HATER HATER!!!
STOP USING HUGE TEXT AND FORGETTING PROPER PUNCTUATION YOU SELF-HATER-HATER-HATER!!!

You'll excuse me for treating the Western Front as a minor theatre.
The eastern front can only be considered a major theater because Stalin had so many bodies to throw at Hitler's armies. The same thing encouraged the collapse of the Roman empire. Many howling barbarians at the gates with too much ground to cover and not enough soldiery. Enough overwhelming opposition and anyone falls.

Had German just gone after Russia than the outcome would very much have been in doubt.
Had everything else stayed as it was...Germany could still have won had it taken Moscow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow) in 1941, or had it chosen Moscow rather than Baku as target for 1942.

STOP USING HUGE TEXT AND FORGETTING PROPER PUNCTUATION YOU SELF-HATER-HATER-HATER!!!
HEY MAYBE WE CAN RESOLVE OUR DIFFERENCES IN A RATIONAL MANNER INSTEAD OF ALL THESE AD HOMENIM ATTACKS!!!

HEY MAYBE WE CAN RESOLVE OUR DIFFERENCES IN A RATIONAL MANNER INSTEAD OF ALL THESE AD HOMENIM ATTACKS!!!
YOUR MOM USES AD HOMENIM ATTACKS!!!

Apparently the mods have better things to do than lock threads. Begs the question of why they're mods in the first place.
Some of us have jobs, friends, even lives.

Not me, but some of us.