NationStates Jolt Archive

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_on_re_us/hiring_teachers;_ylt=AiOHanMIiV9y8a.Z1j8Px3Ks0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

WASHINGTON - Four of every 10 teachers hired in city school systems have something troubling in common, a study contends. They may not be wanted by the schools.

Urban principals often are forced to hire poor performers or teachers who are just not a good fit, the study says, because of union rules that give preference to veteran teachers.

Overall, as many as 40 percent of urban teachers are hired with little or no choice on the part of their principals, according to The New Teacher Project. The group works with some of the largest urban school systems to recruit and hire teachers.

"It's hard to make the argument that we should hold principals accountable if they don't have say over what their staff looks like," said Michelle Rhee, president of the project.

The problem is so pervasive that some principals hide job vacancies until the unwanted teachers get placed in a different school, knowing such deception can give them a hiring edge, the group says.

Schools often must hire teachers who have seniority and want to transfer between schools, or who need a position because they have lost a teaching job to budget cuts. Some of those teachers are poor performers who get passed from one school to another, the study says.

Such conclusions — rejected by teachers' unions — are based on analyses of five districts that provided access and candor in exchange for anonymity. Two have identified themselves: New York City and San Diego. Report authors say their findings are nationally representative.

The American Federation of Teachers, which represents teachers in most large cities, said hiring problems have more to do with school district mismanagement than union contracts.

"The AFT has contracts all over the country in cities like Philadelphia, Boston, New York, Cincinnati, Minneapolis and Toledo that do a much better job of addressing the issues raised in the study," said Antonia Cortese, the executive vice president of the union.

"This report addresses the staffing problem from the wrong end. There's no exploration of why there are so many vacancies in the first place," Cortese said. "A retiring teacher work force and lack of peer mentoring programs for new teachers are much more crucial issues."

One board member of the project, Adam Urbanski, is the president of the teachers' union in Rochester, N.Y. He resigned from the project on Wednesday in protest of recommendations in the report that he said would erode job security for qualified teachers.

"They have gone so far in discounting qualified internal candidates that, if these ideas are adopted, they would substantially increase instability within schools," he said.

Yet Rhee said the new findings show how limited principals are in making arguably their most important decision — hiring teachers. School districts bear responsibility, too, she said, for agreeing to terms with teachers' unions that may not serve their students well.

The group recommends changes that would eliminate forced placements and offer more protection to new teachers, while still giving some preference to seniority.

The study's findings will resonate with cities, said Michael Casserly, executive director of the Council of the Great City Schools, a lobbying coalition of urban districts. "Calling for a debate on this issue is not about taking sides," he said. "It is about the desire we all share of creating urban school systems in which all students can achieve at high levels."

Yay. Another example of Teacher Unions fucking up Education, and screwing the next generation over. Unions have gone out of hand.

Yay. Another example of Teacher Unions fucking up Education, and screwing the next generation over. Unions have gone out of hand.

Teachers unions are the least of your troubles. Focus your rage against the massive spending cuts in the education sector over the last few years. That's where the real trouble lies.

Ahh... if only education was privatized... A libertarian can dream, can't he?

No, that's very accurate. My mom is a teacher in very, very rough urban schools, and most of the highschool kids on this forum are twice as qualified to teach than they are. The school system in Birmingham City is so corrupt it's absolutely appalling. The Board is racist- against whites- incompetent black teachers and administrators get jobs because of their race only, and even when they're horrible and screw up, they don't get fired for the same reasons. It's politically acceptable racism in the worst way- and it results in the same problems as white's racism did in the past, that of lower quality people in positions simply because of their race and who they know.

Solution? There isn't an easy one, and the teacher's unions are the anchor at the bottom of the mire. More funding just feeds the corruption (I've seen it), and more government regulation does nothing but make the school system worse. Several suburbs around Birmingham have their own school systems that refuse federal funding so that they can control their own systems, which are paid for by high city taxes on their upper middle class populations. Not coincidentally, these same systems are the best in the state and some of the top public schools in the country.

Ahh... if only education was privatized... A libertarian can dream, can't he?

Amen to that.

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_on_re_us/hiring_teachers;_ylt=AiOHanMIiV9y8a.Z1j8Px3Ks0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

Yay. Another example of Teacher Unions fucking up Education, and screwing the next generation over. Unions have gone out of hand.
OOOhhh! Someone else to be on the recieving end of the Wrath of NEA Union Apologist, "Teachers are never bad/responsible - give us more money!" NERVUN.

This will be fun to watch. ;)

No, that's very accurate. My mom is a teacher in very, very rough urban schools, and most of the highschool kids on this forum are twice as qualified to teach than they are. The school system in Birmingham City is so corrupt it's absolutely appalling. The Board is racist- against whites- incompetent black teachers and administrators get jobs because of their race only, and even when they're horrible and screw up, they don't get fired for the same reasons. It's politically acceptable racism in the worst way- and it results in the same problems as white's racism did in the past, that of lower quality people in positions simply because of their race and who they know.

.

brave...very brave... True of social services in the UK..AND led to actual deaths of kids with no comeback against the incompetent staff...Positive discrimination? My ARSE!

Yay. Another example of Teacher Unions fucking up Education, and screwing the next generation over. Unions have gone out of hand.
*sigh* This is going to hurt to say, but I agree with you. I was raised in a strong Union family, but even my dad has turned anti-union. And after a harrassment issue my first year of teaching, where my union completely failed to protect me, and others, I have no faith in them. I pay union dues for what? For the union bigwigs to fly down to Texas for conferences? Bah. THEN AGAIN, the teacher's unions (or associations) can usually still manage to ensure that we don't work fifty hours of overtime every week like the schools want us to, and ensure we have a living wage. They are, in my mind, the lesser of the two evils.

But this issue of seniority is a problem in ALL unions. Just look at the government...any office you go to, they treat you like shit, make you wait forever, and give you crappy service because they don't have to worry about losing their jobs. There are many ageing teachers who have worked their asses off, and are now just looking to coast for a few years until retirement. Unfortunately for their students, a 'few years' can last up to a decade:( It's easy enough to get rid of new teachers that suck, because they are usually on probabation for a while, or on interim teaching certificates...but the old farts have their permanent contracts and certificates, and have to leave voluntarily.

Ahh... if only education was privatized... A libertarian can dream, can't he?
Yeah, rob the poor of every chance to lift themselves out of their trouble. Its the fucking kids fault for being born in the wrong family if it cant read and write nor do simple math.
Yay for libertarians!!!

Ahh... if only education was privatized... A libertarian can dream, can't he?
Sorry, I don't think that's the answer either.

In my mind, education should never become a profit-making venture, at least at the elementary and secondary levels. The government should expect to lose a few bucks there...it's called investing in the future.

But the union should smarten the f*ck up. Of course, that would take some teachers adding MORE to their plate and fighting for change in the union...and most don't have the damn energy.

Haha, that's hilarious. Americas public school system is obviously massively underfunded and screwed up, but since the idea of the rich giving up even another cent of their "hard earned" cash is far worse than the idea of the next generation being severly undereductated, what do you do? Blame the unions and continue as normal! Ah, if only workers rights could be abolished and slavery legalised...guess a libertarian can dream eh?

By the way, I know libertarians hate the idea of equality of opportunity (Filthy poor should STAY poor! Genetically superiour rich should stay rich), and privatising the education system is a great way of making social mobility a thing of the past. However, maybe you should think about it in practical terms. If only the rich could get any decent form of education, your economy will be a bit screwed when those with the potential to be doctors are scrubbing floors, and those best suited to scrub floors are doctors to fill the labour gap.

OOOhhh! Someone else to be on the recieving end of the Wrath of NEA Union Apologist, "Teachers are never bad/responsible - give us more money!" NERVUN.

This will be fun to watch. ;)
You're a brat.

Teachers are sometimes bad/responsible. But on the whole we do this job because we love it, and we do it well. Yes, give us more money. Not money necessarily for salaries...make sure we can afford supplies for the classroom, because plenty of our students can't. Make sure we have decent infrastructure so the kids don't freeze in the winter and boil in the summer. Make sure we have the money to fund art and music and physical education, because right now, all those programs are being cut. Make sure we have the money to keep teachers trained and up to date. Make sure there is money for things like lunch programs. Right now, we fundraise for those funds, but we are ALWAYS short.

Are these unreasonable requests?

You're a brat.

Teachers are sometimes bad/responsible. But on the whole we do this job because we love it, and we do it well. Yes, give us more money. Not money necessarily for salaries...make sure we can afford supplies for the classroom, because plenty of our students can't. Make sure we have decent infrastructure so the kids don't freeze in the winter and boil in the summer. Make sure we have the money to fund art and music and physical education, because right now, all those programs are being cut. Make sure we have the money to keep teachers trained and up to date. Make sure there is money for things like lunch programs. Right now, we fundraise for those funds, but we are ALWAYS short.

Are these unreasonable requests?

Course they are. Teachers should be on minimum wage and should teach in abandoned warehouses. After all, what better way to motivate kids? "Study hard and become well educated - you might just get a job like mine!"

Course they are. Teachers should be on minimum wage and should teach in abandoned warehouses. After all, what better way to motivate kids? "Study hard and become well educated - you might just get a job like mine!"
Hahahahahahaa....even without the extremes (yet) of teaching like that, most kids have a pretty good idea of how little teachers are paid. Hell, all they have to do is look at the cars we drive:)

"So, are any of you thinking of becoming teachers?"
*laughter*
"No way Ms. Sinuhue...we want to actually make some money!"

You're a brat. Yep. :p
Teachers are sometimes bad/responsible. But on the whole we do this job because we love it, and we do it well. Yes, give us more money. Not money necessarily for salaries...make sure we can afford supplies for the classroom, because plenty of our students can't. Make sure we have decent infrastructure so the kids don't freeze in the winter and boil in the summer. Make sure we have the money to fund art and music and physical education, because right now, all those programs are being cut. Make sure we have the money to keep teachers trained and up to date. Make sure there is money for things like lunch programs. Right now, we fundraise for those funds, but we are ALWAYS short. Are these unreasonable requests?Nope. My position is actually very much like your previously stated one. It's just that thus far every time I have brought up something like this - i.e. make any intimation that there is a problem with SOME teachers and the way the Union is more interested in Compensation than Competence (or infrastructure/supplies), NERVUN gets all pissy. I though I'd get a jump on it. (Ok, so I was trolling... I'm feeling pissy this AM...) ;)

Yep. :p
Nope. My position is actually very much like your previously stated one. It's just that thus far every time I have brought up something like this - i.e. make any intimation that there is a problem with SOME teachers and the way the Union is more interested in Compensation than Competence (or infrastructure/supplies), NERVUN gets all pissy. I though I'd get a jump on it. (Ok, so I was trolling... I'm feeling pissy this AM...) ;)
Think of it in this way: you can beat the crap out of your siblings and cousins...but when someone else tries, you beat the crap out of THEM. Right? This is kind of the same thing. We can beat the shit out of each other, and treat each other like crap, but when we're attacked, we pull together. Tribal mentality...must be why I like it:D

Teachers unions are the least of your troubles. Focus your rage against the massive spending cuts in the education sector over the last few years. That's where the real trouble lies.

Well taking into consideration that the federal government has increased educational spending between 9.2 billion and 4 billion every year since 2001 where do you suppose the money is going? Are the states siphoning off the record increases before the local districts get the money?
But wait a min...that cannot be the case because I have seen only huge increases in the budget for our schools. (along with my property taxes) Maybe some of it is being used to build the special schools we are being forced to build for illegal aliens (yes we are even here in kansas. Not exactly a border state).
I'd really like to hear about these so called budget cuts. Whose budget is getting cut? Since this cannot be on the federal level someone has to be dipping their greedy hands into the cookie jar.

Overall, as many as 40 percent of urban teachers are hired with little or no choice on the part of their principals, according to The New Teacher Project. The group works with some of the largest urban school systems to recruit and hire teachers.

"It's hard to make the argument that we should hold principals accountable if they don't have say over what their staff looks like," said Michelle Rhee, president of the project.

The problem is so pervasive that some principals hide job vacancies until the unwanted teachers get placed in a different school, knowing such deception can give them a hiring edge, the group says.

Schools often must hire teachers who have seniority and want to transfer between schools, or who need a position because they have lost a teaching job to budget cuts. Some of those teachers are poor performers who get passed from one school to another, the study says.

ah yes, and we certainly don't want to hire teachers with seniority - they cost more money to employ.

the actual fact of the matter is that in many areas the demand for new teachers is enormous, both because of population growth and the ridiculous turn-over rates. these principals lack much choice because there aren't enough really quality teachers to go around, and certainly aren't enough that want to work in shitty schools, with shitty administration, for shitty pay. not when las vegas is hiring (hawaii is hiring too, but they don't pay enough for the teachers to actually live there on a single income, so their turn-over is insane).


and since everybody is taking hits at the union, it's time to take a shot at the bosses. my mom has done teacher trainings in the chicago public schools. one of them had recieved federal funds to open a computer lab. they bought a whole bunch of computers and then realized that they didn't actually have a plan on where to put them. so they shoved them in the basement for awhile. next to some leaky pipes. apparently nobody told the admin that computers don't so much like that.

I'd really like to hear about these so called budget cuts. Whose budget is getting cut? Since this cannot be on the federal level someone has to be dipping their greedy hands into the cookie jar.
Of course they are...but it isn't the teachers.

It's true that budget increases do not automatically mean increased budgets...because the budget becomes a budJet...jetting the administration, or the board members from here to there, their spouses, their lackies...now in Germany 'making connections' now in Korea doing whatever it is they do in Korea...

My district spent the 'increase' on videoconferencing. Get this. Each videoconferencing unit costs about $6000, and every school in the district has at least one. Most gather dust in a closet somewhere. The idea is that schools that don't have enough students to offer a course (like Physics for example) will be connected to a school that has a teacher for this course. So the videoconferencing allows them to link up with other schools, and to one teacher. It's supposed to stop small schools from closing. Then, teachers are required to get training...to the tune of about $400 each. Training which most will never use. And now, schools are running pilots and finding that their students aren't doing that well, so maybe they need to stop the project, oh but they can't because they spent the budget already instead of hiring another teacher, so this is the only option. Makes perfect sense.

and since everybody is taking hits at the union, it's time to take a shot at the bosses.
Here's the essence of my beef with the (US NEA) Union. They don't agitate for better management or proper allocation of funds, or common sense in "Rules"... they agitate for Compensation - and that's it, as if everything else will magically get better with an increase in teacher pay.

If the Union wanted any respect, they would be a lot more vocal in FIRST fighting for things that affect the KIDS, THEN fighting for their wallets.

Here's the essence of my beef with the (US NEA) Union. They don't agitate for better management or proper allocation of funds, or common sense in "Rules"... they agitate for Compensation - and that's it, as if everything else will magically get better with an increase in teacher pay. They fight for all the things you've mentioned. The increases in pay are usually the only thing they ever get. Look at teachers who go on strike. You'll find that 'increase in pay' is a blip on their list of demands, which usually include smaller class sizes, responsible spending, and other issues that directly impact students. Of course, all the fucking media ever picks up on is "they want more money!"

If the Union wanted any respect, they would be a lot more vocal in FIRST fighting for things that affect the KIDS, THEN fighting for their wallets.
Which is exactly what they do. But you don't hear about it unless the union takes out full page ads in the paper...and even then people don't bother to look into the issues. They'd rather have their facts regurgitated to them through the sphincters of idiot reporters.

Teachers have unprecedented job security with the bullshit tenure set up. It screws over the entire system. And like any other business system, the people actually doing shit get screwed in the pay category - look at what principles make compared to teachers.

Teachers have unprecedented job security with the bullshit tenure set up. It screws over the entire system. And like any other business system, the people actually doing shit get screwed in the pay category - look at what principles make compared to teachers.
Don’t worry. The tenure systems is becoming a thing of the past. Right now there is a shortage of teachers in the US, so you guys will be a bit behind on what’s happening in Canada, but I’m sure you’ll get to this point too. Right now, we have more teachers than we can employ, so we fuck them around nicely. We don’t give them full time contracts…we give them .75 or point .8 of a full time, and we give them temporary contracts from year to year. This ensures they will never become a ‘permanent’ employee, and will never have job security. I’m not kidding. This is an official hiring policy because of ‘budgetary restraints’. You dangle the bait of a permanent contract so that teachers work harder, do more extracurricular activities and complain less. You dismiss them at the end of the year if they annoy you. They do not have the same benefits as tenured teachers. It’s a great way to get the most amount of work for the least amount of pay…so what if it’s driving teachers out of the profession? The Universities have been promising for 20 years that the old teachers are all about to retire and there will be a shortage, so you have 300 Education grads per semester. Haha! Jokes on you, fuckers! You’re a dime a dozen!

Course they are. Teachers should be on minimum wage and should teach in abandoned warehouses. After all, what better way to motivate kids? "Study hard and become well educated - you might just get a job like mine!"
oh cool!!! so who should basically turn teachers into nurses aides and schools into nursing homes... well one privatization comes through maybe.

Teachers have unprecedented job security with the bullshit tenure set up. It screws over the entire system. And like any other business system, the people actually doing shit get screwed in the pay category - look at what principles make compared to teachers.

principals generally make more than teacher for their level of seniority they just often don't get to count their years teaching or they often transfer in from other districts... they also aren't in the unions so they don't have the benefits of collective bargaining.

principals generally make more than teacher for their level of seniority they just often don't get to count their years teaching or they often transfer in from other districts... they also aren't in the unions so they don't have the benefits of collective bargaining.
They quite often have their own union. Depends on the district.

Here's the essence of my beef with the (US NEA) Union. They don't agitate for better management or proper allocation of funds, or common sense in "Rules"... they agitate for Compensation - and that's it, as if everything else will magically get better with an increase in teacher pay.

If the Union wanted any respect, they would be a lot more vocal in FIRST fighting for things that affect the KIDS, THEN fighting for their wallets.
so name another union that doesn't advocate for their members first... that's what a union does, it collectively bargains over wages and benefits, work rules and hiring practices for the benefit of it members... a group like the PTA/PTO is more of the sort of group to engage in the form of advocacy you are talking about.

They quite often have their own union. Depends on the district.
really, in my district in pennsylvania they are considered part of the district administration and i'm pretty sure they can't organize just like a company executive or middle manager.

so name another union that doesn't advocate for their members first... that's what a union does, it collectively bargains over wages and benefits, work rules and hiring practices for the benefit of it members... a group like the PTA/PTO is more of the sort of group to engage in the form of advocacy you are talking about.But does a PTA/PTO have the leverage tool of a Strike to see their goals met?

If you ask a teacher why s/he went into the work, the answer is not "for the money" but "for the kids".

IMO agitate for the kids and the money will come. Don't even bring up the salary issue at all - from a PR standpoint it's counter productive.

Yep. :p
Nope. My position is actually very much like your previously stated one. It's just that thus far every time I have brought up something like this - i.e. make any intimation that there is a problem with SOME teachers and the way the Union is more interested in Compensation than Competence (or infrastructure/supplies), NERVUN gets all pissy. I though I'd get a jump on it. (Ok, so I was trolling... I'm feeling pissy this AM...) ;)
Nice, Syniks, just very, very nice. 寝ぼけんじゃねえよ!

I've never said all teachers were holy and perfect, far from it. I have said that your obsesion with teachers unions and their supposed all mighty powers, especially the NEA, is idiotic. Especially as your seem to feel that it's teachers unions who write all those laws you hate.

Now to address the thread,
The seniority system is a problem. I'd be more interested in another question though, most new teachers call it quits after two years. Since seniority means older teachers can request and place themselves in better schools, I'm wondering how much of this exodus is due to new teachers getting the rougher schools where we need better and more experienced teachers?

Hell, all they have to do is look at the cars we drive:)


I dunno... my history teacher has a really nice Toyota Prius. Certainly better than any car my family could afford.

Strange...I suddenly have the urge to hit something...

Nice, Syniks, just very, very nice. 寝ぼけんじゃねえよ! Nice Flame, and a big ちんちん小さい！to you too. :rolleyes:
I've never said all teachers were holy and perfect, far from it. I have said that your obsesion with teachers unions and their supposed all mighty powers, especially the NEA, is idiotic. Especially as your seem to feel that it's teachers unions who write all those laws you hate.Nope, the unions don't write the laws, but sinse it is virtually impossible to get enough parents together to make a difference to the Admin, the only group with enough power is the Union... and they don't use it in any meaningful way. But maybe that's just my opinion because I've been watching Teachers as an adult for at least 15 years longer than you've been one...

Nope, the unions don't write the laws, but sinse it is virtually impossible to get enough parents together to make a difference to the Admin, the only group with enough power is the Union... and they don't use it in any meaningful way. But maybe that's just my opinion because I've been watching Teachers as an adult for at least 15 years longer than you've been one...
Oh I like that; you've observed teachers so you know what their job entails. So does that mean that since I've watched the police on the news I know what it's like to be a policeman? Wonderful bit of logical reasoning there, just wonderful. Just out of curiosity though, when was the last time you were in a classroom, and not just for an hour's parent-teacher conference. I mean when real lessons were going on?

Sadly though, it seems that your idea that since you were a student, and you have observed teachers, means that you know what the hell teachers do and can do it better is rather rampant across the country. I blame my own profession; we should have been more on the ball about getting the word out. Silly us, we were more concerned about teaching than PR.

So here's your chance Syniks, from the teacher in me, here's a wonderful assignment for you. An exercise if you will. Fix the damn system. Since you're bound and convinced that teachers unions are the death of the school system, I will withdraw them. There, I have waived my hand and they're gone. Now fix the system. How will you do it?

Oh, you do have to deal with the realities of the system.

Namely that there are 61,297,467 school aged children in the United States. They have to be educated, but many don't want to be.
Your physical plants are decaying at a rapid rate. To fix them or build new ones, you have to pass bond issues voted on by the communities and payable by property taxes.
Your teachers are graying, many to retire within the next ten years, the incoming class of teachers has also been sharply falling, and with the increasing population, there's a crisis point coming up within 20 years that there will not be enough teachers for the demand unless class sizes are increased to ridiculous sizes.
Your students are multicultural and multiethnic and many don't like each other. The state legislature has mandated that you make them get along.
The state legislature has also cut your budget, meaning you have to cut gifted and talented, ESL, Music and Art programs, or sports. Parents have threatened to sue if any are cut.
The US Government states that your school must meet tests, but will not give you money to do so.
The Supreme Court of the United States has made it clear that not only can you not discipline kids, you cannot remove them from school unless the commit a criminal act.


Got it all? So tell me, since you've observed teachers for so long, what wonderful plan do you have to fix this?

Nice Flame, and a big ちんちん小さい！to you too. :rolleyes:
You state a number of things I have never said, but when I say you're half asleep you respond that I have a small wee wee. And you say I flamed YOU?
I'd say the normal disparaging remark, but I'm too busy laughing at you.

Ahh... if only education was privatized... A libertarian can dream, can't he?

Because poor people don't need to learn, they're just gonna be washing dishes or stocking shelves anyways.

Oh I like that; you've observed teachers so you know what their job entails. So does that mean that since I've watched the police on the news I know what it's like to be a policeman? Wonderful bit of logical reasoning there, just wonderful. Just out of curiosity though, when was the last time you were in a classroom, and not just for an hour's parent-teacher conference. I mean when real lessons were going on?Nice moving the bar. I'm not talking about what teachers do in the classroom, I'm talking about what the Union Hacks are/have been doing... somthing a 20-somthing teacher in Japan really has no first-hand experience with. You do seem to be good at reading the NEA propaganda sheets though. :rolleyes:
Sadly though, it seems that your idea that since you were a student, and you have observed teachers, means that you know what the hell teachers do and can do it better is rather rampant across the country. How would you know? You aren't here. I blame my own profession;I don't. I blame your Union(s). we should have been more on the ball about getting the word out. Silly us, we were more concerned about teaching than PR.Um... the job of the Union IS PR. You are shifting the issue again. You are intimating, as usual, that my issues with the Union means I dislike teachers. What I DO know is PR - and the Union is doing a damn piss-poor job of it. For example, it seems that agitating against WalMart (http://www.nea.org/topics/walmart-fact.html) is more important than agitating for solutions to the List you post below.
So here's your chance Syniks, from the teacher in me, here's a wonderful assignment for you. An exercise if you will. Fix the damn system. Since you're bound and convinced that teachers unions are the death of the school system, I will withdraw them. There, I have waived my hand and they're gone. Now fix the system. How will you do it?You see, you continue to obstinately miss the point. I think the Unions COULD be useful. It just seems painfully obvious that (corporately) they refuse to be. But rather than actually consider what I say, you just react. I can see your knee jerking from here.
Oh, you do have to deal with the realities of the system. Starting with the corruption and lack of accountability inherent in any Government system...
Namely that there are 61,297,467 school aged children in the United States. They have to be educated, but many don't want to be.And when has that NOT been the case?
Your physical plants are decaying at a rapid rate. To fix them or build new ones, you have to pass bond issues voted on by the communities and payable by property taxes.And yet, the Union agitates for Compensation and complains about excessive capital projects. Why not strike about bad buildings for once?
Your teachers are graying, many to retire within the next ten years, the incoming class of teachers has also been sharply falling, Ya Think? Potential teachers may object to the years of pedagogy classes they must take (rather than subject-specific courses) before being allowed to enter a classroom. Data from the 2003 SATs reveals education majors rank at the bottom in SAT scores with a 965. Education courses have a reputation for including some of the most ideological, least interesting and least rigorous content available to college students. Most people don't want to put up with that. and with the increasing population, there's a crisis point coming up within 20 years that there will not be enough teachers for the demand unless class sizes are increased to ridiculous sizes. And yet, you teach English in Japan rather than teach English in the US...
Your students are multicultural and multiethnic and many don't like each other. The state legislature has mandated that you make them get along.No, they mandated that schools not discriminate by "race" for admittance, not that the students "get along". I don't consider this a problem. The NEA doesn't consider this a problem... is it one to you?
The state legislature has also cut your budget, meaning you have to cut gifted and talented, ESL, Music and Art programs, or sports. Parents have threatened to sue if any are cut.Budget accountability is absolutely important. There is no incentive to be fiscally responsible if you are flush. That's always been the problem with any government organization. I certainly agree that public school administrations are bloated, bureaucratic, unhelpful, and intrusive, and would love to see the NEA say so and fight to pare down these bureaucracies. I would gladly give to teachers in higher pay all the money any school saved by cutting admins and assistant principles, but the NEA never says anything like this. In passing, the NEA shows the average per pupil public school expenditure to be $8208 a year. Do you realize how much "Elite Private Schooling" that would buy from a fiscally responsible school?
The US Government states that your school must meet tests, but will not give you money to do so.When compared on a $-per-student basis, the US is nearly the highest in the world.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/oecd_1.gif
Therefore, where the US is trailing other nations in student performance, it is a productivity and effectiveness issue (i.e. a Teacher's/Union issue), not a spending issue. But again, if a particular school/district is not funded well enough or too admin-top-heavy to meet standards, where is the agitation? Bad PR.
The Supreme Court of the United States has made it clear that not only can you not discipline kids, you cannot remove them from school unless the commit a criminal act.When has the NEA opposed this?


Got it all? So tell me, since you've observed teachers for so long, what wonderful plan do you have to fix this?

You state a number of things I have never said, but when I say you're half asleep you respond that I have a small wee wee. And you say I flamed YOU? I'd say the normal disparaging remark, but I'm too busy laughing at you.The colloquialisim you posted (寝ぼけんじゃねえよ!) is best understood as "pull your head out of your ass" - but you knew that... being disingenuous is just par for the course eh?

As for the decline of Teachers entering the profession. Let's look at the NEA's version of "certification". (The Heartland Institute writes here about more problems with the current certification scheme) (http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=12960). The NEA creates a certification process that drives good people away, and then blames the lack of good teacher candidates on pay scales. Anecdotally, this is precicely why both my brother and sister-in-law dropped out of the public-school teaching system - they were sick of the NEA claptrap and being forced to pay into a Union they didn't support. He is now a Uni Prof and she is considering home-schooling.

Also note - when the NEA talks about certification, it has nothing to do with testing teachers about their subject knowledge. The NEA stridently opposes setting standards for and testing teachers on their subject matter. They only want to test on the arcana and philosophical mumbo-jumbo that is taught in education programs.

If the NEA really was interested in maintaining the quality of the teacher pool they would enthusiastically support enhanced pay for the best teachers -- but in fact they oppose pay for performance vociferously and only want mindless seniority systems.

OK, so the NEA is indeed a union and its primary concern is teacher pay. Fine. Lets look at teacher pay. Table one of the NEA 04 Rankings (update) (http://www.nea.org/edstats/images/04rankings-update.pdf)shows average teacher pay by state, with CA, CT, DC, NJ, and MI as the five highest and AL, OK, MS, NS, SD as the five lowest. The NEA likes this kind of ranking, because by putting "blue" states at the top and "red" at the bottom, it supports its political goals of electing Democrats - where 96%+ of the NEA's political contributions goes. However, something else should also strike one pretty quickly about these states -- the top five have very high cost of living, and the bottom five have low cost of living. So basically, the NEA has proven nothing more than the fact that salaries are higher in high cost of living states. Without correcting for cost of living, the table is meaningless. The NEA repeats this mistake in every single chart, never correcting for cost of living variances which can be substantial state to state. So not only are they looking at the wrong metrics, but the stats they are keeping are measured incorrectly. (This is probably the result of requiring their statisticians to have teaching degrees rather that statistics degrees. :rolleyes: ) If you do a cost of living correction using cost of living indices, you find CA moves from 1 to 37! DC moves from 3 to 32 and NY from 4 to 30. Corrected for cost of living, Hawaii goes from above average to last by a long way. Oops. So why doesn't the NEA correct salaries for cost of living? Since the NEA uses this report as a bludgeon on states in the bottom half, the report if corrected would still be just as useful (since there would still be a bottom half)-- and in fact it should be more useful as the list corrected for cost of living moves a number of very populous states like NY and CA into the bottom half (i.e. they can now be bludgeoned). My only guess why the NEA doesn't make this obvious improvement to the data is that it would put several red states, including the Great Satan (Texas) in the top 10, and move several hardcore blue states (VT, HI) into the bottom five.

No matter what, though, some states are always at the top and some at the bottom. The question is, should we pay teachers more money? I know there are places where teacher pay is inadequate. However, RAND did a study through regression analysis of the best ways to spend money to improve schools (http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR924/MR924.chap8.pdf). They found no correlation between teacher pay and education quality. Zero. Nada. (link to pdf (http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR924/MR924.chap8.pdf)) See http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR924/ for the whole document.
But the easy answer is, we should if we need to attract more or better teachers in a particular market. This means yes in some places (Hawaii really does look bad, and their public schools have a reputation of being awful), and no in others. But since Education is Government Controlled rather than Market Driven, that just isn't allowed.

(Mucho thanks to W. Meyer for references & bits...)

Nice moving the bar. I'm not talking about what teachers do in the classroom, I'm talking about what the Union Hacks are/have been doing... somthing a 20-somthing teacher in Japan really has no first-hand experience with. You do seem to be good at reading the NEA propaganda sheets though. :rolleyes:
(snip)
But the easy answer is, we should if we need to attract more or better teachers in a particular market. This means yes in some places (Hawaii really does look bad, and their public schools have a reputation of being awful), and no in others. But since Education is Government Controlled rather than Market Driven, that just isn't allowed.

(Mucho thanks to W. Meyer for references & bits...)


:D Damn!

I'd say the normal disparaging remark, but I'm too busy laughing at you.


Looks as if you laughed way too soon to me.

I'm not blind so I understand what has been proposed, but rather than bicker over what a tough job America's educators have....

Nationwide, parents are lead to believe that their children's future depends upon getting a fair shot in progress. Although this makes sense, it too can be disputed. What is a fair shot? What is the desired future for their children?

Public resources are not intended to give (those that use them) the best and most favorable odds for striving to succeed. Yet, although vouchers are being tried out and although many parents choose to hire private tutors, why is it that our children are classified as just so pathetic. Why are our students just not prospering in the classroom?

Priority number one should be teaching and accepting conflict. The students should understand that they're not always right; the parents need to get how the teachers are responsible for what goes on in the classroom, and that if their kids screw up, they will be confronted with the strict discipline plan that will be exercised while their children attend school; and the faculty needs to knock off the BS on how they won't deal with problems because the union, district, or state has some stupid rule. Law should be left to be argued in courthouses.

Like the Nationstates issue says, "If someone started talking garbage, we'd smack'em one." People need not be afraid to express themselves, but we need to learn from our mistakes. The student's of today have (expectedly) exceeded the bounds of respect from 50 years ago. The opinions and preferences of students is one thing; their conduct is something else. Students need to understand that common decency is something that must be practiced for the sake of everyone there to learn as much as it is for
coworkers in the workplace. Teachers also have to stop trying to be their student's friends as well. Common decency includes knowing how to talk and counsel someone in times of need, but a full fledged camaraderie is overdoing it. Kids need to socialize with kids so they understand how to get along in the real world w/o someone holding their hand.

But what about a plan?

Frankly, the situation is one that can't simply be revamped. There are plenty of examples that can remind you of the urban renewal efforts in Detroit. All that happens is the mess gets cleaned up, waiting to be made again in only a matter of time. Privitization could work, except it doesn't support (nevermind satisfy) those of the lower and lower-middle class.

The situation is a symptom of the "problem" of how commonsensical behavior has disappeared from Americana. American culture has always held democracy as a cornerstone since it lets our citizens talk on an even floor to express our concerns and beliefs. But in times where unity is not absolutely demanded, we feel the obligation to display political correctness. These two words may have been invented, but the idea is naturally human.

Just as natural as laziness.

Practicing political correctness is taught to us as being the very core of maturity from the day that we're born. It's how conformity is excused when being sheep is the easiest option. An option to commonly exercised. True maturity comes from knowing how to be yourself while rejecting pride for the sake of integrity. This isn't a discussion about morals, so I'll leave this to be elaborated upon.

Political correctness is what we use to shield democracy. Democracy is most understood to provide strength in numbers. Unfortunately, the easiest way to acquire strength from numbers is to herd sheep.

If American education is to be salvaged, it must be scrubbed of the disposition that lets political correctness be excused. People (in general) need to understand how to refuse instinct and impuse for p.c. just as much as we develop worth ethic. When this is done, THEN it can be addressed how to be rid of the corruption and waste. P.C. lets students mock each other, teachers use cop outs, and parents go crazy. It also allows unions to be over-strengthed since districts give in to their every demand. Conflict provides experience towards building maturity, but this maturity needs to be pure and not reckless.

"For the Children"...
Extracurricular Activities
Tallying up the National Education Association's agenda

By Nick Gillespie

The National Education Association prefers to call itself an "organization committed to advancing the cause of public education" rather than a teachers union. But, as a new report from the Virginia-based Alexis de Tocqueville Institute observes, a review of the NEA's Legislative Program for the 104th Congress "reveals that the [group's] public policy agenda would be extremely costly for America's children."

Using cost estimates from the texts of congressional bills and studies by the Congressional Budget Office, John E. Berthoud, vice president of the institute, says that if every NEA proposal became law, federal spending would jump by about $702 billion per year. If the extra burdens were paid by increasing taxes, the total would come to about $10,500 per family of four. "The most likely outcome," writes Berthoud, "is that much of this new spending will be financed by bigger federal deficits."

Some of the big-ticket items are hardly surprising. The NEA proposes, for instance, a $5.6 billion increase in federal funding of primary and secondary education, a $4.3 billion boost in early childhood education programs such as Head Start, and a $12.4 bi llion program to protect students and employees from environmental, health, and safety hazards.

But much of the NEA's agenda, says the report, has nothing to do with education. Among other initiatives, the union suppor ts a single-payer health care system, assistance to areas hurt by shutdowns of army bases and other federal facilities, and protecting current levels of Medicare and Medicaid benefits. The NEA also supports increasing total Social Security payments by $126.8 billion--about five times the total of its education-related proposals--and lowering the age at which people become eligible for full retirement benefits. A spokesperson for the NEA said she had no knowledge of the study and could not comment on it.

"Despite NEA's claims to be an organization concerned first and foremost with children," writes Berthoud, "their legislative wish list has a strong bias in favor of today's retirees...the NEA would exacerbate the problem posed by entitlements for future generations by actually increasing spending on today's beneficiaries." http://reason.com/9606/NICK.TREND.shtml

Yep. Good school reform advocates there... Maybe that's why the NEA and AFT lost a class action suit in 1998 when accused of inappropriately using MANDATORY member dues:
(1996) The teachers' union illegally herds educators into its forced-dues ranks to pay for political spending. Teachers who refuse to pay are fired. According to the NEA itself, approximately 23,000 teachers and educational support personnel are forced to pay dues just to keep their jobs. http://www.nrtw.org/b/nr_4.htm
Under Supreme Court precedents Abood v. Detroit Board of Education and Lehnert v. Ferris Faculty Association, teachers have the right to refrain from formal union membership and may only be forced to pay the proven cost of collective bargaining. Another Supreme Court victory, Chicago Teachers Union v. Hudson, prohibits unions from seizing forced fees from teachers’ paychecks without providing adequate notice and procedures, including independently audited financial disclosure. http://www.nrtw.org/b/nr_129.htm

1977 - Abood v. Detroit Board of Education
The Court ruled that compulsory dues for politics violates the First Amendment and that it is illegal to withhold forced dues from dissenters beyond the cost of collective bargaining. In this case, which reached the Supreme Court in 1977, Right to Work Foundation attorneys represented 600 Detroit school teachers. The Court flatly rejected the argument that public and private sector employees may be treated as possessing dissimilar First Amendment rights. (Union officials later tried to side-step Abood by constructing elaborate internal rebate schemes beyond the means of most employees to pay for, and by setting rebates at only 1 to 5 cents on the dollar.)

1986 - Chicago Teachers Union v. Hudson
In another 9 to 0 decision, the Court found far-reaching rights in challenging compulsory dues withheld from teachers who refrain from union membership. The Court applied civil rights statutes and found that the teachers represented by the Foundation attorneys were denied due process of law under the First Amendment.

In setting aside the "pure rebate" concept, the Court required that employees be provided with information supporting the union's financial breakdown of forced dues; that those figures be verified by independent audit; and that employees have an opportunity for a prompt, impartial review of the union's forced-dues calculations.

1991 - Lehnert v. Ferris Faculty Association
This Foundation-won case involved a Michigan state college's faculty members who were forced to pay fees to the NEA/MEA labor union.

The Court fleshed out earlier, vague language by establishing a rigorous three-part test, based on the First Amendment, to judge the chargeableness of union activities paid for by forced dues. It also clarified that non-members cannot be forced to subsidize union lobbying and public relations.
http://www.nrtw.org/c/caselaw.htm

But none of the above keeps the Unions from still trying to sticke it to teachers who disagree with them:

Benton, Tenn. (April 24, 2003) — In a rare challenge to the coercive power of union officials to compel teachers to support political activities as a condition of union membership, a Polk County teacher filed suit against the National Education Association (NEA) affiliates in Tennessee for expelling him from the union because he objected to supporting their political activities. http://www.nrtw.org/b/nr_214.php

Nice Union. Shouldn't Collective Barganing and Workplace issues be non-partisan? Naahh. :rolleyes:

Looks as if you laughed way too soon to me.
Have I? I wouldn't say that, I wouldn't say that at all. Besides, I was laughing at his use of telling me I have a small wee wee (Which, Syniks, is what ちんちん translates to).

Nice moving the bar. I'm not talking about what teachers do in the classroom, I'm talking about what the Union Hacks are/have been doing... somthing a 20-somthing teacher in Japan really has no first-hand experience with. You do seem to be good at reading the NEA propaganda sheets though. :rolleyes:
Oh? I have no first hand experience with them? Well, if you don't count over 150 hours in the classroom, teaching, as part of teacher education for my BA/MS; which while IN the classroom I was covered under the local union, not having experience. And of course if you don't count having to learn what teachers actually do, their limitations, limitations, legal rights, and how the apply to teachers in Educational Law (Like, for example, the main purpose of the NEA is to underwrite the insurance, currently over 1 million dollars, that each teacher HAS to have to teach) as having no real knowledge of them. Oh, and of course the NEA AND the local teachers union (you've never quite gotten it that the two are not the same, have you?) has branches in the College of Education, because, surprise, surprise, most of the students IN COE were either teachers or substitutes and therefore entitled under the collective bargaining agreements, union or not and deserved to know what the hell was being bargained.

And your experience with them is? Oh yes, observing them. From the local paper no doubt.

How would you know? You aren't here.
Well, one, I haven't always been in Japan. Two, there's this WONDERFUL thing called the Internet, it's absolutely amazing, and you can follow what people are thinking about in America from across the globe. And I am very interested in Education for obvious reasons.

And of course, teacher education, y'know, learning the history, methods, and so on. What's your background for declaring you know the status of education across America?

You are shifting the issue again. You are intimating, as usual, that my issues with the Union means I dislike teachers.
I have never said you dislike teachers, I have noted that you seem to feel that all evils in public education flow FROM the union, the NEA to be exact. I have noted, repeatedly, that the NEA does not have that much control and the local level where school issues are decided. Instead, you seem to be convinced that the NEA is the perfect target. Thus my challenge to you.

What I DO know is PR - and the Union is doing a damn piss-poor job of it. For example, it seems that agitating against WalMart (http://www.nea.org/topics/walmart-fact.html) is more important than agitating for solutions to the List you post below.
Ah nice, except when I visited their site, strangely the Wal*Mart thing was at the bottom of a very long list.
I'll quote it for you, since it seems to match up very well with what I did state.

Accountability and Testing
Schools, teachers and students should all be held to high standards, and NEA believes that accountability should be shared by schools, education employees, policymakers and parents — with the ultimate goal of helping every student succeed. Visit the Accountability and Testing area.

Charter Schools
The National Education Association supports public charter schools that have the same standards of accountability and access as other public schools. Visit the Charter Schools area.

Class Size
While many education reform proposals remain controversial, reducing class size to allow for more individualized attention for students is strongly supported by parents, teachers, and education researchers. Visit the Class Size area.

Early Childhood Education
High quality early childhood education represents one of the best investments our country can make. NEA believes it's a common sense investment we can't afford to pass up. Visit the Early Childhood Education area.

Health
The NEA Health Information Network, the non-profit health affiliate of NEA, provides health information on topics of concern to educators and students. Visit the Health area.

International Issues
NEA's Office of International Relations monitors and works with the United Nations, intergovernmental agencies and international non-governmental organizations on issues that affect teaching and learning. Visit the International Issues area.

Mathematics and Science
NEA supports high standards in mathematics and science that outline clear expectations for what students should know and be able to do. Read about the standards, guidelines, and curricula that are improving the teaching and learning of math and science in America's schools. You can also explore a wealth of recommended Web sites for educators, students, and parents. Visit the Mathematics and Science area.

National Board Certification
NEA is a strong supporter of National Board Certification (NBC), which is an advanced teaching credential and a challenging professional development experience offered by the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards (NBPTS). Visit the National Board Certification area.

'No Child Left Behind' Act/ESEA
The 1965 Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) was overhauled and renewed by Congress and signed into law as the "No Child Left Behind Act" on Jan. 8, 2002. This section provides information on developments since enactment and on requirements that states, districts and schools have to meet. Visit the No Child Left Behind/ESEA area.

Priority Schools
NEA and its state and local affiliates are making low-performing schools "priority schools" by urging fundamental changes -- changes that will create a safe, orderly environment that focuses on high standards of teaching and learning for all students. Visit the Priority Schools area.

Privatization
A wide variety of companies and corporations are attempting to take over virtually all of the work traditionally performed by school district employees, from teaching to providing student transportation to cooking meals to cleaning and maintaining school buildings and grounds, and more -- often, at a higher cost to taxpayers. Visit the Privatization area.

Reading
The National Education Association believes that "reading is the gateway to learning in all content areas and essential for achieving high standards." Visit the Reading area.

Rural Education
Schools in rural areas and small towns face difficult challenges in serving the needs of children and public education. Visit the Rural Education area.

School Quality
NEA is committed to doing all it can to make public schools great for every child. Learn what makes for a quality school as well as how NEA's KEY's Initiative is helping educators, parents and community members improve their local schools. Visit the School Quality area.

School Safety
Students learn best and achieve their full potential in safe and orderly classrooms. This positive academic environment begins with safe families and safe communities. Visit the School Safety area.

Social Security
The fight to preserve the integrity and promise of Social Security is going to be a whole lot tougher in 2005 than at any other time in the hugely popular and successful program's history. There are three major issues that concern NEA members. Visit the Social Security area.

Special Ed/IDEA
Access to a free, quality education is the key to the uniquely American promise of equal opportunity for all. This promise was formally extended to children with disabilities with the passage in 1975 of landmark federal legislation now known as the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). Yet, the promise made in 1975 remains unfulfilled. Visit the Special Ed/IDEA area.

Student Success
Every child should be learning and succeeding in school, but the reality is that lots of students are struggling, and the reasons are as diverse and complex as the students themselves. NEA is working with school staff, parents, business and community leaders, legislators, and other education groups to close the achievement gaps and to create great public schools with high academic standards for all students. Visit the Student Success area.

Teacher Shortage
A historic turnover is taking place in the teaching profession. While student enrollments are rising rapidly, more than a million veteran teachers are nearing retirement. Experts predict that overall we will need more than 2 million new teachers in the next decade. Visit the Teacher Shortage area.

Teacher Quality
The National Education Association works with researchers, educators and policymakers to assure a qualified, competent, caring educator in every American classroom. Visit the Teacher Quality area.

Technology in Schools
Technology must be an integral part of the educational experience in order for today’s students to fully succeed in the 21st century. Visit the Technology in Schools area.

Vouchers
Teachers, parents, and the general public have long been opposed to private school tuition vouchers, especially when funds for vouchers compete with funds for overall improvements in America's public schools. NEA and its affiliates have been leaders in opposing alternatives like vouchers that divert resources from efforts to improve public schools. Visit the Vouchers area.

Wake-Up Wal-Mart
The NEA Executive Committee has endorsed a national effort called "Wake-Up Wal-Mart," designed to educate the public about the effects of Wal-Mart on its employees, their communities and the economy, as well as the anti-public education activities of founder Sam Walton's family. Vist the NEA Wal-Mart Campaign area.
http://www.nea.org/topics/index.html
Of course the list is alphabetical. But it does seem that they are trying to address many of the fundamental issues in education.

You see, you continue to obstinately miss the point. I think the Unions COULD be useful. It just seems painfully obvious that (corporately) they refuse to be. But rather than actually consider what I say, you just react. I can see your knee jerking from here.
And you seem bound and determined to not understand how the system actually works, preferring to envision a large national system controlled by the NEA when the NEA has very little say about local matters. Hell Congress has very little say about local matters. Pot, meet kettle.

Starting with the corruption and lack of accountability inherent in any Government system...
They're your local school board. The folks of Denver, PA proved what happens when you don't like the school board's actions, which will result in a change of policy. That's why I laugh at you when you so state that politicians listen to the NEA. No, the politicians listen to parents because its school boards that make the policy decisions that affect your school.

And when has that NOT been the case?
Just making sure you know the numbers. Because I see a lot of 'let's privatize the schools' from people whom I don't think quite understand the amount of students that need to be educated. Do you really think venture capitalists will build THAT many schools for that many students?

And yet, the Union agitates for Compensation and complains about excessive capital projects. Why not strike about bad buildings for once?
And yet you fail to understand, NEA=National Union. School buildings=Local School Board! Even state legislatures don't really help with capital projects (beyond, it should be stated, the general education budget which is sometimes diverted into finishing capital projects); it's the local school boards who pass the bond issues to build new schools. Assuming that the local population passes it.

As for teachers unions not supporting bond issues:
http://www.cta.org/CaliforniaEducator/v7i3/TakingStand_1
http://www.seeleyswanpathfinder.com/pfnews/2000news/jan00/bondissue.html
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/mar/11/6news_video_teachers/ (Warning: Video link)
And on and on and on. The times I see local unions not support building campaigns is when the bond issues usually target administrative buildings, which happened in my hometown when the school board tried to float a bond to build themselves and the superintendent a new office building with deluxe accommodations.

Ya Think? Potential teachers may object to the years of pedagogy classes they must take (rather than subject-specific courses) before being allowed to enter a classroom.
I'm getting a vision, yes; it's a vision of hordes of college students. And they, they're complaining about professors who know the content, but not how to teach.
Sound familiar?
Or do you still subscribe to the theory that the best educational practice is to stand at the front of the classroom and lecture. If you do, I have a WHOLE bunch of academic papers I can drop on you.

Also, I would give you this:

Certainly the finding that traditional college students perform better than nontraditional students on PRAXIS II comes as something of a surprise. Many policymakers hope that nontraditional adult teacher candidates can help fill the teacher shortage. While nontraditional candidates are very important, colleges of education need to have quality assurance mechanisms in place to ensure that such candidates do in fact know the subject matter that they will be teaching. The myth that well-qualified individuals abound who would enter teaching and be effective if only there were no preparation involved is simply that— a myth

Unfortunately, there is very little research to show just how much time is taken up, in credit hours, verses content. So I would be very interested on where you got your idea from. As for me, 1/3 of my time at university was taken up with education coursework as opposed to my content area, which isn't bad at all because while I need to know Shakespeare, I also need to know what to do with a student who will not learn.

Data from the 2003 SATs reveals education majors rank at the bottom in SAT scores with a 965. Education courses have a reputation for including some of the most ideological, least interesting and least rigorous content available to college students. Most people don't want to put up with that.
I assume that you are referring to this:
http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/2005-college-bound-seniors.pdf
report. However, it shows students intending to major in education. Funny, but the average student changes their major two times before graduation. And your second assertion is reputation, not stated fact. Were some of my ed courses cake walk? Yes, so were some of the science courses that were nothing more than memorization. But as I responded to my best friend who majored in Chemical Engineering, 'Your classes maybe harder, but you'll be working with things you will know how they go boom. My job will be working with people that when they go boom it sometimes involves them taking a gun and trying to kill me. And I will have no set idea about what sets them off.'

And yet, you teach English in Japan rather than teach English in the US...
My various reasons for coming to Japan are neither relevant nor your business, save that I thought as I wish to teach English to speakers of other languages in the future, it might be a good idea to go where they are, and find out how immigrants feel when they come to the US. However, it is very ironic that I do make more here than I would as a regular teacher at home.

No, they mandated that schools not discriminate by "race" for admittance, not that the students "get along". I don't consider this a problem. The NEA doesn't consider this a problem... is it one to you?
Again, local situation. The feel good programs that you have previously targeted as part and parcel of the NEA stance, feel free to replace it with any other social program that teachers are being asked to cover instead of academics.

Budget accountability is absolutely important. There is no incentive to be fiscally responsible if you are flush. That's always been the problem with any government organization. I certainly agree that public school administrations are bloated, bureaucratic, unhelpful, and intrusive, and would love to see the NEA say so and fight to pare down these bureaucracies. I would gladly give to teachers in higher pay all the money any school saved by cutting admins and assistant principles, but the NEA never says anything like this.
Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea how the salaries are set for teachers? Real quick lesson. Each school district has a teachers' collective bargaining unit, usually called the teachers' union, this union may, or may not, be associated with the NEA. These are the folks who get into the scuffle about salaries on the district level. However, some districts have found a really interesting way to keep cost down; they have split administrative staff from the teachers' unit. The result is the general infighting you see between administration and teachers over salaries. And yes, this is done on purpose. But, NEA represents both administrators AND teachers on the national level, which is why you don't hear the NEA call for that. Listen to your local union and you'll hear the suggestions.

When compared on a $-per-student basis, the US is nearly the highest in the world.
Therefore, where the US is trailing other nations in student performance, it is a productivity and effectiveness issue (i.e. a Teacher's/Union issue), not a spending issue. But again, if a particular school/district is not funded well enough or too admin-top-heavy to meet standards, where is the agitation? Bad PR.
Local/National, again. The past session at the Nevada State Legislature saw many teachers and the state teachers unions push for funding to take Nevada up to the national average on per pupil spending. It didn't happen, but it was a nice idea. Again, you seem to confuse just how the system works.

The colloquialisim you posted (寝ぼけんじゃねえよ!) is best understood as "pull your head out of your ass" - but you knew that... being disingenuous is just par for the course eh?
Nope, 寝る is sleep. The literal translation is you are half asleep! And depending upon how it is said can mean pay attention, wake up, or get your head out of your ass. Now I was asking you to wake up, but maybe the latter suits more now.

As for the decline of Teachers entering the profession. Let's look at the NEA's version of "certification". (The Heartland Institute writes here about more problems with the current certification scheme) (http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=12960). The NEA creates a certification process that drives good people away, and then blames the lack of good teacher candidates on pay scales. Anecdotally, this is precicely why both my brother and sister-in-law dropped out of the public-school teaching system - they were sick of the NEA claptrap and being forced to pay into a Union they didn't support. He is now a Uni Prof and she is considering home-schooling.
Interesting, the NEA doesn't set teacher certification, the state does. Nor does your article mention just WHAT these NEA standards are (I suspect that they mean master teacher certification, something that is meant for, well, master and experienced teachers, not first time licensure). Again, you have little knowledge about who is setting up what, when, and why. The NEA is part of The National Council for Accreditation of Teacher Education, which accredits colleges and universities. So where are these NEA standards that are keeping people out of the field?

Nevada said what I had to learn to gain my license, not the NEA. Nevada also stated what I needed before I could walk into a classroom, not the NEA. Education is LOCAL!


Also note - when the NEA talks about certification, it has nothing to do with testing teachers about their subject knowledge. The NEA stridently opposes setting standards for and testing teachers on their subject matter. They only want to test on the arcana and philosophical mumbo-jumbo that is taught in education programs.
Really?

NEA certification for master teachers,
English: http://www.nbpts.org/pdf/aya_ela_2ed.pdf
Math: http://www.nbpts.org/pdf/mcea_math.pdf
The rest: http://www.nbpts.org/standards/stds.cfm

All of the above state, in very plain language, just what is expected for teachers to know; content knowledge especially. Do many teachers fail in content? Yes, yes they do. It's a massive problem, but one that the NEA is not ignoring as you are suggesting.

If the NEA really was interested in maintaining the quality of the teacher pool they would enthusiastically support enhanced pay for the best teachers -- but in fact they oppose pay for performance vociferously and only want mindless seniority systems.
Odd, this doesn't sound like they disprove of pay for performance.
http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0011/news16.html

What the NEA HAS been fighting is the idiotic notion that teacher pay should be indexed to standardized test scores. There are a lot of problems with standardized testing, and tying pay to that is a good recipe for disaster. Again, the local unions are the ones usually in love with the seniority system.

Or do you have any proof for your words?

Snip political rant.
And thus do we come to the heart of your complaint; the NEA gives money to Democrats! This, of course, seems to be the whole of the problem I hear and again and again from conservatives. So since the NRA donates over 90% to the GOP, you also are going to attack them as well, correct?

No matter what, though, some states are always at the top and some at the bottom. The question is, should we pay teachers more money? I know there are places where teacher pay is inadequate. However, RAND did a study through regression analysis of the best ways to spend money to improve schools (http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR924/MR924.chap8.pdf). They found no correlation between teacher pay and education quality. Zero. Nada. (link to pdf (http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR924/MR924.chap8.pdf)) See http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR924/ for the whole document.
I see a lot of caveats within your document that state more research is needed. However, I would like to direct you to one point, the one where they stated how they just raised salaries, which is not the point. The point being that, yes, we are not getting the best teacher candidates, especially in math and the sciences, the reason being that there's far more money to be earned elsewhere. Teacher salaries are still very low, especially when compared to those with comparable education as teachers have. The NEA position, which is rather simplistic, does have a grain of truth to it, many people chose not to be, or leave teaching, because of money.

After all, at the end of the day, I still have to make all my payments and feed my family. If we want those quality people, we have to pay them a quality salary. That's market law after all.

Since we're not, we're getting people who should NOT be in a classroom, or major goofballs who love teaching so much that they willingly give up higher pay for teaching. Unfortunately those types are hard to find, and not enough to staff the schools. A compromise must be reached.

But the easy answer is, we should if we need to attract more or better teachers in a particular market. This means yes in some places (Hawaii really does look bad, and their public schools have a reputation of being awful), and no in others. But since Education is Government Controlled rather than Market Driven, that just isn't allowed.
And again, that government is local. State and district, it is very responsive to you. Go for it.

And you still have not answered my question on how you would fix the system.

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_on_re_us/hiring_teachers;_ylt=AiOHanMIiV9y8a.Z1j8Px3Ks0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-



Yay. Another example of Teacher Unions fucking up Education, and screwing the next generation over. Unions have gone out of hand.
Teachers union are no different than any other union. They are interested in protecting the welfare of their members. Period. If you want to improve the quality of public education, don't count on them for help.

I have a graph too! http://www.ieg.ee/keith/docs/keskkoolECON/26EXTERN_files/image001.gif Isn't it groovy!

Do you really think venture capitalists will build THAT many schools for that many students?

depends. will they be allowed to sell the shoes that they have the kids make in 'art' class?

Don´t you know the Nike Elementary School?

But does a PTA/PTO have the leverage tool of a Strike to see their goals met?

If you ask a teacher why s/he went into the work, the answer is not "for the money" but "for the kids".

IMO agitate for the kids and the money will come. Don't even bring up the salary issue at all - from a PR standpoint it's counter productive.

I can't afford to live in the city that I work in because I am not paid a salary sufficient to rent or buy AND eat.

Do you not think perhaps we deserve a BIT more money so a roof over our heads does not need to be shared with others?

I can't afford to live in the city that I work in because I am not paid a salary sufficient to rent or buy AND eat.

Do you not think perhaps we deserve a BIT more money so a roof over our heads does not need to be shared with others?
I agree with you that good teachers are underpaid by so much that it would make heads spin. The problem is discriminating between good teachers, average teachers, and bad teachers. Teachers, themselves, don't want to do that. If I ever want to get into an argument with my wife, the teacher, all I need to do is bring up merit-based compensation.

Every teacher I've ever talked to wants to have some objective means to evaluate them before any kind of discussion on merit-based compensation can be discussed. What my wife won't accept is that no one's compensation is based on objective evaluation. And because there is apparently no way to objectively evaluate teaching performance, you are all stuck accepting the average raise that the school board hands out. That's good for the bottom feeders, but the good teachers should be very upset. And not at the school board, but at themselves.