NationStates Jolt Archive

For those of you that live in Amsterdam or have been to Amsterdam recently, is it all that bad?

Has the (limited) legalization of drugs (well, drug) caused such problems?

I've been told that Amsterdam is some sort of scummy, hole-of-the-Earth place because of their drug policy. Personally, I feel it's untrue. But do you have any first-hand experiences?

As an aside;

Does increased availability of drugs lead to increased usage?

Would the crime rate actually go up?

Has the crime rate gone up in Amsterdam?

For those of you that live in Amsterdam or have been to Amsterdam recently, is it all that bad?

Amsterdam isn't bad at all. It's quite nice, actually.

Amsterdam isn't bad at all. It's quite nice, actually.

I thought as much. Would you say it's pretty much like any other major city?

I read they're banning tourists from the dope cafes.

I thought as much. Would you say it's pretty much like any other major city?

It isn't like any other major city - that's why people like to go there, but it's not some sort of hell hole, it's a nice, special city.

well amsterdam was truly lovely when i was there in the summer. really nice place, no problems with crime except when we entered ourselves into it (tried to buy some illegal drugs and got ripped off), but that was in the red light district anyway. outside of that there are still coffeeshops but its lovely.

that said we were mashed the whole week solid and walking around in a total haze, so frankly i could have been anywhere sunny and i'd have been happy :p

for all those americans (and other foreigners :p ) ranting and raving about "Amsterdam's drug policies" ...

you do know that cannabis is legal in the entire country of the Netherlands, right? :rolleyes:

From what my mom tells me (she's a flight attendant and has layovers in Amsterdam reasonably often) drug-free natives vastly outnumber the dumb chuckling tourists, so their impact is pretty low. The city remains beautiful, and the idiot stoners rare enough to be easily ignored. :)

You think its the -drug policies- that make Amsterdam an ugly place?
The only thing that really makes it ugly is the Prostitution - that's where they get the most of their problems. There's nothing more disgusting than walking down the street and seeing a man coming out of a small sex booth zipping up his fly while there's 12 other people in line, waiting to have a go with the same woman.

There's nothing more disgusting than walking down the street and seeing a man coming out of a small sex booth zipping up his fly while there's 12 other people in line, waiting to have a go with the same woman.
What about American Democrats?

I'm half-kidding in the vein of NSG libs, so get off my nuts. :P

for all those americans (and other foreigners :p ) ranting and raving about "Amsterdam's drug policies" ...

you do know that cannabis is legal in the entire country of the Netherlands, right? :rolleyes:
yes, because i went to a number of coffeeshops in Utrecht, too :p

yes, because i went to a number of coffeeshops in Utrecht, too :p

Have you done anything else in my country except blowing?

Have you done anything else in my country except blowing?

I'll give you 3 guesses ;) :p :D

Beautiful city. Lovely women. Fine beer. An all-round excellent place.

As for their drug policies, a British teenager is more lightly to have smoked a joint than their Dutch counterpart. When comparing the extremes of drug policy the permissive Dutch system wins hands down over the heavy-handed American one. Something to think about.

Well, it's fairly obvious a more liberal approach to social issues will win.

Just look at US. Our harsh war on drugs has done nothing but promote the rise of drug lords and gangs.

You'd think we would've learned our lesson after we prohibited alcohol. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

As it was said on the West Wing:
"The quality of drugs has increased, the volume imported and manufactured has increased and the price has decreased. Tell me again, who is winning the war on drugs?"

THIS IS ABOUT AMSTERDAM NOT AMERICA TALK ABOUT AMSTERDAM AND HOW MUCH YOU LOVE TO SMOKE WEED

Here is some lower case text so that my uppercase text up there will show up the way I intended. Also here is a joke: What did the black boy get for his birthday? A bike. Lololol.

Have you done anything else in my country except blowing?
staying with family
visiting the countryside (beautiful) and cycling about
going to museums
going to a fair in utrecht, as well as the theatre in amsterdam
boat cruise round amsterdam
other usual tourist things

drug-tourist things we did:
smoked a lot of weed but kept ourselves to ourselves
didn't get really drunk and make fools out of ourselves as could well have been the case (and would have been the case if the pot wasn't availabe)
tripped out on shrooms

idiot stoners
screw you buddy

Fine beer
hertog jan all the way dude! :)

screw you buddy

OMG SEE?! THE VIOLENT NATURE OF REEFER MADNESS REVEALED!!!






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OMG SEE?! THE VIOLENT NATURE OF REEFER MADNESS REVEALED!!!






abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba
you better watch out, i could light up a J at any moment and go medieval on your ass ;)

how do you think the incredible hulk does his stuff? and he's green, too! :p
(very subtle dazed and confused reference)

when I went to Amsterdam October, I loved every minute of it. I was there for two nights on my own, and yet i didn't feel alone at all... I went to a lacrosse tournament there, and so I was only passing through on my way to Rotterdam. I went to two different coffee shops, both in location and style. As soon as I went in and ordered I was made to feel welcome, and actually met a few really cool people. The liberal drugs attitude, in my opinion, is a great thing, everyone I met was cool, and actually talked to you, whereas when I'm at home in England, you can ask someone for directions and they completly ignore you. Same as when I lived in America actually.

As for crime- Here are a few facts... I've compared them to the USA, the UK and Germany.

Drug offences

1. United States - 560.1 per 100,000 people
2. Germany - 297.3 per 100,000 people
3. United Kingdom - 214.3 per 100,000 people
4. Netherlands - 47 per 100,000 people

Definition: Drug offence cases per 100,000 population (2000).
Source: UNODC


and....

Total Crimes

1. United Kingdom - 85.6 per 1,000 people
2. United States - 80.1 per 1,000 people
3. Netherlands - 79.6 per 1,000 people
4. Germany - 76.0 per 1,000 people

Source: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)


Furthur proof can be found at: NationMaster (http://www.nationmaster.com)

-snip-
*claps* well done... further endearing me to the idea of living in the netherlands :)

quite true that people there tend to just be nicer - and more laid back - than here in the uk


i think that laid-back-ness was perfectly illustrated by my friend's uncle as we cycled past utrecht's own red light district. he said, in his admirable dutch accent, "yes, this is where people come to pay to have sex"

no judgement, no problems, no hang-ups. just the truth, and thats all there is to it. he could well have said 'if people want to come and pay to have sex, let them do it here - i don't want to live by here, so i don't'
i'm not sure if i'm getting the point across properly, but at the time it just summed up the whole attitude so well :)

i was in Amsterdam in 2000, it was quite nice; the only thing that i did not like were all of the needles that were just laying in the streets

Drug offences

1. United States - 560.1 per 100,000 people
2. Germany - 297.3 per 100,000 people
3. United Kingdom - 214.3 per 100,000 people
4. Netherlands - 47 per 100,000 people

Definition: Drug offence cases per 100,000 population (2000).
Source: UNODC


and....

Total Crimes

1. United Kingdom - 85.6 per 1,000 people
2. United States - 80.1 per 1,000 people
3. Netherlands - 79.6 per 1,000 people
4. Germany - 76.0 per 1,000 people

Source: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)


Furthur proof can be found at: NationMaster (http://www.nationmaster.com)

One of these days I'll leave the country. :)

The drug offences -- does this mean crime caused because people are under the influence of drugs/acting to acquire drugs (gangs, etc?) or people are just violating that nation's drug laws?

*claps* well done... further endearing me to the idea of living in the netherlands :)
I dunno. If the crime rate is about the same but the drug offence rate is lower, that means other crimes are more prevalent. Violent crimes? Burglary? I wanna know that before I make the decision that the Netherlands is so great crime-wise :)

<snip>

An Irish comedian once said:
The Dutch are the easiest people in the world to play a gig for. You can tell your worst joke and their like "Well, that wasn't really funny. But on the other hand he's not infringing on anyone elses human rights, so a round of applause"

An Irish comedian once said:
The Dutch are the easiest people in the world to play a gig for. You can tell your worst joke and their like "Well, that wasn't really funny. But on the other hand he's not infringing on anyone elses human rights, so a round of applause"

The few, the proud, the Duch:D

One of these days I'll leave the country.

The drug offences -- does this mean crime caused because people are under the influence of drugs/acting to acquire drugs (gangs, etc?) or people are just violating that nation's drug laws?

I think (not sure) that it is the total nuimber of people caught violating drug law, which, if I'm correct, includes crime under the influence of illegal drugs (i.e not weed)



I dunno. If the crime rate is about the same but the drug offence rate is lower, that means other crimes are more prevalent. Violent crimes? Burglary? I wanna know that before I make the decision that the Netherlands is so great crime-wise

That stat was per capita.
This stat is total number.

1. United States - 23,677,800
2. Germany - 6,264,720
3. United Kingdom - 5,170,830
4. Netherlands - 1,305,640

Burglary -

1. United Kingdom 13.8 per 1,000 people
2. United States 7.1 per 1,000 people
3. Netherlands 5.6 per 1,000 people

Violent Crime -

There was no option for violent crime, but for murders -

1. United States - 12,658
2. Germany - 960
3. United Kingdom - 850
4. Netherlands - 183

Which means you're less likely to die. The suicide rates are lower as well.

THIS IS ABOUT AMSTERDAM NOT AMERICA TALK ABOUT AMSTERDAM AND HOW MUCH YOU LOVE TO SMOKE WEED

Here is some lower case text so that my uppercase text up there will show up the way I intended. Also here is a joke: What did the black boy get for his birthday? A bike. Lololol.
I worship weed and smoke it every chance I get. Weed rocks!

I dunno. If the crime rate is about the same but the drug offence rate is lower, that means other crimes are more prevalent. Violent crimes? Burglary? I wanna know that before I make the decision that the Netherlands is so great crime-wise :)

According to nationmaster the Netherlands has

2.7 assaults per 1000 people
5.5 Burglaries per 1000 people
0.01 Murders per 1000 people
0.1 Rapes per 1000 people

This puts them with less crime than US in all categories and with less or equal crime rates Britian and Germany in most.

An Irish comedian once said:
The Dutch are the easiest people in the world to play a gig for. You can tell your worst joke and their like "Well, that wasn't really funny. But on the other hand he's not infringing on anyone elses human rights, so a round of applause"
watch this :p (http://www.hlj.me.uk/Mike%20Wilmot.wmv)

money back if you don't laugh ;)

According to nationmaster the Netherlands has

2.7 assaults per 1000 people
5.5 Burglaries per 1000 people
0.01 Murders per 1000 people
0.1 Rapes per 1000 people

This puts them above the US in all categories and above and equal to Britian and Germany in most.

Rapes-

1. United States 0.3 per 1,000 people
2. United Kingdom 0.1 per 1,000 people
3. Netherlands 0.1 per 1,000 people
4. Germany 0.1 per 1,000 people

<snip>

By above I meant "having less off". I'll just go clarify.

Damn it! I wasted my 666th post on a clarification.

*snip*
I hereby award you the Medal for Distinguished Infograbbing

how do you think the incredible hulk does his stuff? and he's green, too! :p
(very subtle dazed and confused reference)



VERY subtle. Well appreciated tho.

Look. Alcohol is a drug as 'bad' as weed. If you demonise weed then hate alcohol too. I know many people who think weed is evil but drink beer. crazy....:headbang:

I hereby award you the Medal for Distinguished Infograbbing

?

Realy, the way I hear it (My uncle is dutch), the most of holland is quite religious and they don't do those types of things (Gambling, Prostitution, Drugs ect.), however they are quite tolerant even in the face of their religion and don't try to force their ideals on others (sound familiar at all?).

?
it means you're cool

Well, I'm a little depressed about this. I now realize why I hate getting into debates about politics with my teachers.

They make up statistics, etc.

History teacher said that in order to take x-number of dollars (forgot how much I proposed) from the military you'd need to shut down the Marine Corps. Turns out that the amount of money I proposed wasn't even close to the amount the Marines used.

Just recently my Civics teacher called Amsterdam a "hole" (scum-place of the Earth, I assume) because of its lax drug laws. I truly wonder if he's ever been there. Now that I have all of these statistics and anecdotal evidence, I can properly wage again my war AGAINST the war on drugs.

Thanks, fellows.

hertog jan all the way dude! :)
belgian beer is so much better :p (but props for not liking heineken :D )

I think that a less restrictive policy on (soft)drugs will allow young people who want to experiment (across any cultural divide) to try out a lot less harmful drug... If you restrict all drugs except alcohol, pharmaceuticals and tobacco you will have the problem of some very heavy and harmful drugs becoming easier to buy and cheaper than weed (which by smell can be easily detected). Therefore you needlessly create large quantities of addicts who in other cases who´d stuck to smoking a joint now and then. I know this is very generalized, but I think a war on drugs (and I think all historical and current evidence points to that) is bound to backfire and cause more problems than solve them.

To fill up your prisons with people who smoke weed now and then or sell marihuana-paraphernalia (like the unjustly imprisoned Tommy Chong) you´re creating more problems for those people. With a criminal record they´re bound to be discriminized against on the labour market and they´ll come out damaged from prison in the first place.

The war on drugs like any war is cruel and largely unjustified

Legalize Marihuana!!!

How can man be considered free if he cannot decide over of his own body?

I was in the Netherlands earlier this year. Yes, Amsterdam is a dirty, seedy, dangerous kind of city. It isnt because of the drug use though, its because of the size. Isn't every major downtown area in the world the same way? If you go to other parts of the Netherlands it's pretty nice, but of course the downtown Amsterdam area (where you find the large concentration of coffee shops and the red light district) is just as dirty as all downtown areas of major cities. Rotterdam isn't much better either.