NationStates Jolt Archive

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.

You're acting under the assumption that Christianity is a monolithic organization, and does not suffer from heterodoxy.

I can't work to change any of that, since it is not the outward face of "my" religion, and it does not represent me in any way. And I can't prevent anyone else from speaking on behalf of their own faith, since we have both freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the US.

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.
... wait... you actually watched this whole thing? :eek:

edit: ...oooh, I get it. This is why my mom always told me not to talk to strangers ;)

You're acting under the assumption that Christianity is a monolithic organization, and does not suffer from heterodoxy.

I can't work to change any of that, since it is not the outward face of "my" religion, and it does not represent me in any way. And I can't prevent anyone else from speaking on behalf of their own faith, since we have both freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the US.

You're missing the point. People see christianity as a "monolithic organization" because of people like this, not in spite of them. Chritianity is not seen as a diverse group of people with different demoniations because of people like this. Yes, there is freedom of speech and religion, but people like this are making YOU look like them, and none of the sane people of your faith are helping to diffuse that assumption.

What type of file is that video? Will it work for Win 95? It does'nt work for me...

Anyone want to sum it up with paraphrasing each point?

You're missing the point. People see christianity as a "monolithic organization" because of people like this, and groups like FotF. You are not seen as a diverse group of people with different demoniations because of people like this. Yes, there is freedom of speech and religion, but people like this are making YOU look like them.

Then by this same logic: People see Islam as a "monolithic organization" because of people like Al Quida. They are not seen as a diverse group of people with different demoniations because of people like this. Yes, there is freedom of speech and religion, but people like this are making ALL MUSLIMS look like them.

What type of file is that video? Will it work for Win 95? It does'nt work for me...

Anyone want to sum it up with paraphrasing each point?


It's a WinMP file... Essentially it's the finale of the show "Trading Spouses", where an uber-christian wife comes home after spending time with a family of new-agers (and the new ager wife from the other family had spent time with the other...). The video documents the christian wife absolutely flipping out, calling the other family "dark-sided" and so on, as well as berating her own family for "not praying for her". All in all, a rather disgusting display.

Damn, this bitch is fucking craaaaazy. You know what's funny?
Her almighty God couldn't help her lose weight through the amazing power of prayer, so in the end she took the money for her gastric bypass surgery after all. What a whackjob fundiecunt.

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.
What makes you think it's just a minority among christians? How do you know thatn 99% of christians aren't like that?

And that woman is CLEARLY out of her mind! :eek:

What makes you think it's just a minority among christians? How do you know thatn 99% of christians aren't like that?

And that woman is CLEARLY out of her mind! :eek:
Living in metro Tampa, Florida, I can tell you that there's PLENTY of Christians like this. Lots of whackjob fundies. The problem is, the other less attention-grabbing Christians don't say shit to them and put them in their place. It's a no-no to publicly tell someone they're being a crazy fundie, and instead they pat them on the back and congragulate their commitment to Jeeeeeeee-sus. Who do you think fuels this kind of raging fire?

Not the atheists or Buddhists (which the bitch had the nerve to scream about in the video).

Living in metro Tampa, Florida, I can tell you that there's PLENTY of Christians like this. Lots of whackjob fundies. The problem is, the other less attention-grabbing Christians don't say shit to them and put them in their place. It's a no-no to publicly tell someone they're being a crazy fundie, and instead they pat them on the back and congragulate their commitment to Jeeeeeeee-sus. Who do you think fuels this kind of raging fire?

Not the atheists or Buddhists (which the bitch had the nerve to scream about in the video). Probably quite correct. It's true: empty vessels make most noise!

Is there anyone who has that full episode? I woudl enjoy watching it from start to finish instead of just that clip of the lady going crazy.

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.

Chosen by who?

What makes you think it's just a minority among christians? How do you know thatn 99% of christians aren't like that?


Because it is one person. Untill you have more evidence you dont make the kind of rash generalisation that 99% of them are like that.

I don't care about the religion aspect of the thread. I'm just going to go on the record saying she's one crazy/scary bitch who I'd never want to have to share a house with.

I'd like to see all the things she said written as text (without exclamation marks) and then see how many Christians actually agree with what she said. Then show them that clip.

Hooooollly SHIT! (Yes I understand the irony in that statement)

Please understand...This woman DOES NOT represent us. But your right insofar that it's psycho bitches like her that give the rest of us a bad name...

What ever happened to love, brotherhood, understanding and tolerance? All things that Jesus preached? People like this pervert his message.

Chosen by who?

By the christians out there getting "face time". I don't see "moderate" or "true" christians making efforts to marginalize people like this as the minority that they truly are. Do you?

http://www.byzantineicons.ro/47.JESUS%20CHRIST%20%2030X20%20CM.JPG

http://www.lasvegasorthodox.com/images/icon-of-christ.jpg

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Images/corregio-jesus-christ-christianity.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/28505/christianity/images/jesus1.jpg

By the christians out there getting "face time". I don't see "moderate" or "true" christians making efforts to marginalize people like this as the minority that they truly are. Do you?

I can't speak for others but my theory is that most of the time we don't let people like this woman get to us.

Don't get me wrong, give me some time with Larry King and I'll fix this mess.

No,this (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/buddychrist.jpg) is the face of christianity.

No,this (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/buddychrist.jpg) is the face of christianity.

Hell yeah!

By the christians out there getting "face time". I don't see "moderate" or "true" christians making efforts to marginalize people like this as the minority that they truly are. Do you?
That's exactly what I was saying. There's no major effort by other Christians to marginalize this group at all. And as far as the "that's not all Christians" excuse goes, it's pretty lame when we're facing the so-called "moral majority" in this country. It's pretty safe to say in America that the majority of Christians are at least highly intolerant, even if they're not raving lunatics.
Been paying attention to the news lately? :rolleyes:

ROFLMAO
What a whack job.the poor atheists,or whatever they actually are,they're on her 'prayer list'.how terrifying.lol.

That's exactly what I was saying. There's no major effort by other Christians to marginalize this group at all.

Actually, there is. The thing is, we're fighting right alongside non-Christians in most cases, and you don't even know it.

And as far as the "that's not all Christians" excuse goes, it's pretty lame when we're facing the so-called "moral majority" in this country. It's pretty safe to say in America that the majority of Christians are at least highly intolerant, even if they're not raving lunatics.

No, it really isn't. Do you know how many people voted for the current administration? At best, 50%. Do you know how many of them voted for him because of his religious views? I don't.

Politics has, for quite a while now, allowed small minority groups to gain power that is disproportionate to their size. What makes you think this group is any different?

Whew. I was waiting for that woman to start foaming at the mouth! I can't say that all Christians are like that because I don't know all of them, but 98% of the Catholics I've met are pretty much like that. My boyfriend's stepfather was told by his priest that he'd go to hell if we were having premarital sex under his roof, so he kicked us out even though we were paying him to be there. So much for all of that Christian charity.

I just thank the gods Catholics don't go knocking door to door here. Heh, if they came into my house, they'd shit themselves. We've got gargoyles, skulls, tarot cards and all kinds of that stuff laying about.

Whew. I was waiting for that woman to start foaming at the mouth! I can't say that all Christians are like that because I don't know all of them, but 98% of the Catholics I've met are pretty much like that. My boyfriend's stepfather was told by his priest that he'd go to hell if we were having premarital sex under his roof, so he kicked us out even though we were paying him to be there. So much for all of that Christian charity.

I just thank the gods Catholics don't go knocking door to door here. Heh, if they came into my house, they'd shit themselves. We've got gargoyles, skulls, tarot cards and all kinds of that stuff laying about.

Now I'm depressed...

Where do you live...this might be because of where you live. Please...don't automatically think we're all like that. My Catholic church has to be one of the most accepting and warmhearted places I know of.

... wait... you actually watched this whole thing? :eek:

;)

It didn't even work on my computer. Oh well, gotta feeling I didn't really miss anything anyway. :)

It didn't even work on my computer. Oh well, gotta feeling I didn't really miss anything anyway. :)

You missed the most crazy, out-of-control psycho bitch I have seen since Ann Coulter!

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.

That was fricking awesome, no really I thought she was going to fall over and die or something. Anyhow, don't tell me ( a christian) what to do. There are as many of her as me. And the simple fact says that the fittest will survive. So I win, not her. You win, not her. So instead of giving excuses why you are not Christian, just flip the whole religion thing the bird and go on your way.

Actually, there is. The thing is, we're fighting right alongside non-Christians in most cases, and you don't even know it.
Well, I'm surrounded by Christians everyday. They constitute the overwhelming majority of my family and friends. I'm not aware of a single one "fighting" the religious right, except a few of you here on NS (a very, very small, tiny minority, even here).

No, it really isn't. Do you know how many people voted for the current administration? At best, 50%. Do you know how many of them voted for him because of his religious views? I don't.
That's a hard find, but I was able to pull up a few statistics from this article: (http://www.christianpost.com/article/society/761/full/statistics.measuring.the.christian.vote/1.htm)
A new survey released by the Barna Institute revealed that 86 percent of Christian evangelicals would likely vote for President Bush in the upcoming election in November. The survey, which asked 1,619 adults who they would vote for, divided up the adults by their faith and the way they practice their faith.
Kerry has the preference of people of non-Christian faiths by a margin of 55 percent to 22 percent and that of agnostics and atheists by a margin of 53 percent to 35 percent.

I didn't realize anyone was really still in denial concerning whether Christians favored Bush. Are you being serious, or just difficult?

Heh... time for one of Kamsaki's thought experiments...
This isn't just the face of Christianity. This is the stereotypical American made flesh.

Anyone see the United Church of Christ adverts? Got shown them by a visiting minister, apparently they were put on CNN or something.

Pity there aren't more like that.

http://www.byzantineicons.ro/47.JESUS%20CHRIST%20%2030X20%20CM.JPG

http://www.lasvegasorthodox.com/images/icon-of-christ.jpg

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Images/corregio-jesus-christ-christianity.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/28505/christianity/images/jesus1.jpg


Would be nice if that were still true....

You're missing the point. People see christianity as a "monolithic organization" because of people like this, not in spite of them. Chritianity is not seen as a diverse group of people with different demoniations because of people like this. Yes, there is freedom of speech and religion, but people like this are making YOU look like them, and none of the sane people of your faith are helping to diffuse that assumption.

Yep, and all muslims blow up buildings. And all white people are hanging niggers. And all black people are smoking crack. And all mexicans are living 80 people to an apartment. And all gay people have AIDS. And so on. Most people call that bigotry. I try to combat it by explaining to people what individuals are.

This is nothing new. In any religion there are those who miss the point and take things to extremes for their own reasons.

I live smack dab in the middle of a citidel of fundamentalist Christianity, with the Southern Baptist Church predominating, yet I have never heard anyone go totally crackers like this woman did. She doesn't "represent" anyone but herself. She's clearly gone off the deep end, and to say that she represents the face of Christianity only leads me to wonder what sort of agenda those so alledging have on their minds.

Almost all of the Christians I know are kind, loving, considerate people who do their best to live their lives according to the basic tenets of their faith. Yes, I've been approached repeatedly by those who believe their faith requires them to proselytize, but none of them have ever raised their voice to me, or threatened me with hell-fire and damnation, or been anything other than courteous and tolerant. Even those with whom I have had some rather spirited debates have never lost either their temper or their cool.

Perhaps those who believe this crazy woman represents Christianity need to do just a tad more research. Ya think? :)

Well, I'm surrounded by Christians everyday. They constitute the overwhelming majority of my family and friends. I'm not aware of a single one "fighting" the religious right, except a few of you here on NS (a very, very small, tiny minority, even here).


That's a hard find, but I was able to pull up a few statistics from this article: (http://www.christianpost.com/article/society/761/full/statistics.measuring.the.christian.vote/1.htm)



I didn't realize anyone was really still in denial concerning whether Christians favored Bush. Are you being serious, or just difficult?
I didn't realize that people didn't know that evangelicals is a section of Christianity and not the entirety of it. I realize it now, so I'll let you know. I'm a Christian and not an evangelical. I'm fairly sure Dem isn't either. In fact, I'm fairly certain that the majority of Christians are not evangelicals, but then I'm looking and the true face of Christianity and not just anything I can find to damage it.

Well, I'm surrounded by Christians everyday. They constitute the overwhelming majority of my family and friends. I'm not aware of a single one "fighting" the religious right, except a few of you here on NS (a very, very small, tiny minority, even here).

I don't see many non-Christians fighting the religious right either. Only those of us (Christian or non-Christian) who care enough about politics to get involved do so...

That's a hard find, but I was able to pull up a few statistics from

Cute, but none of your statistics answer my question. Out of the roughly 50% of voters who voted for Bush in the last election, how many did so specifically because of his religious views?

Your statistics show a correlation between religion and voting, but not a causal effect.

I didn't realize anyone was really still in denial concerning whether Christians favored Bush. Are you being serious, or just difficult?

I'm being serious. I know about an equal number of Bush-supporting Christians and Christians opposed to Bush. Interestingly enough, that seems to meet the 50% number of the overall voting pool....

Yep, and all muslims blow up buildings. And all white people are hanging niggers. And all black people are smoking crack. And all mexicans are living 80 people to an apartment. And all gay people have AIDS. And so on. Most people call that bigotry. I try to combat it by explaining to people what individuals are.

The problem here, however is that there are literally no high-profile examples of christians who fall on the opposite side from this point of view. There are sane muslims on TV all the time, as well as white people decrying racism, Cheech Marin had a show, and so on. Where's the spotlight on sane christians? It doesn't exist because the fundies, IMO, don't want it to.

Now I'm depressed...

Where do you live...this might be because of where you live. Please...don't automatically think we're all like that. My Catholic church has to be one of the most accepting and warmhearted places I know of.

I grew up in the Bay Area, California. I haven't really dealt with Catholics here in Nevada. Don't let it get you too down. I went to Catholic school for 12years. Unfortunately a priest said some hateful things about people with different beliefs. Not everyone who went to the school was Catholic, some were there for a good education. I was horrified that, here these girls came to learn and instead they were being told they would go to hell. It was the most insulting, hurtful thing I had ever seen.

While it's been my unfortunate experience that the majority of Catholics I have met are hateful and overly judgemental, I certainly don't think all are this way. It has however had the effect of making me open my eyes and study other faiths even though I was baptised Catholic. Short of actually meeting a Catholic who isn't spouting condemnations, I don't think I would be willing to go to a Catholic church again.

The problem here, however is that there are literally no high-profile examples of christians who fall on the opposite side from this point of view. There are sane muslims on TV all the time, as well as white people decrying racism, Cheech Marin had a show, and so on. Where's the spotlight on sane christians? It doesn't exist because the fundies, IMO, don't want it to.

Hmmm... and here I was thinking that Martin Luther King was a Christian and Mother Theresa. What was I thinking?

Or how about all those quiet people that thank God when they receive awards and then go on about their way. Or the ones who are giving to charity or running them. You must have missed all of them.

See the problem here is that our religion specifically tells us to be humble and to not broadcast the kinds of things these people are. It's evidence that they are not true Christians. And if you look for the loudest in every group that usually get the airtime because they're absurd. Christianity is no different.

EDIT: Also, if your just looking for Christians on TV (it's not like this lady has a show, she just showed up on one), perhaps you could look at some of the kind Christians that occasionally show up on that same show. Oh, wait, no one put a clip of that on the internet and finding out would just be too hard. How about Montel Williams, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Tom Hanks, Robert Duvall, Jimmy Carter? Is that enough or do I need to continue? To not see the Christians that appear for good or ill ALL over the tube often speaking out against the atrocities in the world one must close both eyes.

Where's the spotlight on sane christians?


Sane Christians are modest Christians, and modest Christians probably don't feel the need to parade around their faith like a freak show.

I don't see many non-Christians fighting the religious right either. Only those of us (Christian or non-Christian) who care enough about politics to get involved do so...



Cute, but none of your statistics answer my question. Out of the roughly 50% of voters who voted for Bush in the last election, how many did so specifically because of his religious views?

Your statistics show a correlation between religion and voting, but not a causal effect.



I'm being serious. I know about an equal number of Bush-supporting Christians and Christians opposed to Bush. Interestingly enough, that seems to meet the 50% number of the overall voting pool....

His statistic specifically looks at the group of people most likely to be a part of the religious right and then says, "look, they are largely part of the religious right!"

For the education of those too lazy to actually find out the information for themselves.

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v17n2/evangelical-demographics.html

people like this are commonplace in Iowa.Whenever I tell them I'm not a christian most go batshit and tell me I'm going to hell to which I humbly respond "If you're going to heaven then I'd rather go to hell than spend eternity with you"

Hmmm... and here I was thinking that Martin Luther King was a Christian and Mother Theresa. What was I thinking?

I admit that those are good examples. Both loooong dead, but good none the less. But, MLK was murdered by someone who called themself a good christian. And, I remember Mother Theresa being lables a socialist while she was still alive. Do you see what I'm getting at in the post of mine you quoted?

Or how about all those quiet people that thank God when they receive awards and then go on about their way. Or the ones who are giving to charity or running them. You must have missed all of them.

I do remember saying "high-profile"...

See the problem here is that our religion specifically tells us to be humble and to not broadcast the kinds of things these people are. It's evidence that they are not true Christians. And if you look for the loudest in every group that usually get the airtime because they're absurd. Christianity is no different.

Yet there aren't any other voices out there telling the blowhards to stuff it. Or at least none that are getting any real play. Other groups you had mentioned earlier, however, do have those voices.

You know, one of these days, I'm going to have to go visit some of these religious fundies you guys keep mentioning. Might be a fun experience. We don't have any here. ^^;

Hmmm... and here I was thinking that Martin Luther King was a Christian and Mother Theresa. What was I thinking?

I wouldn't use Mother Theresa as an example. Everyone likes to try and turn her into a saint, but she was a suspected human rights abuser who refused anesthetic to children in pain and "helped" AIDs patients by intentionally putting them in apartments in the upper floors of buildings with no elevators so that, no matter how sick they were, they would have to climb several flights of stairs.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I think Mother Theresa truly thought she was doing God's work. I just think she was a little confused on what that was. Her philosophy seemed to be that only through suffering could one get closer to Christ. Thus, she would do nothing to ease the suffering, and has in fact been quoted more than once as saying that suffering makes the world a better place. Many of her "hospitals" were in fact places where people would be prayed over, but little or no medical attention would be given. Analgesics and anesthesia were almost never, if ever given.

MLK, on the other hand, I would say is a good example - a man who taught a message of Christ that many people have lost in translation over the years.

Or how about all those quiet people that thank God when they receive awards and then go on about their way. Or the ones who are giving to charity or running them. You must have missed all of them.

Well, they're hard to see, right? They aren't all up in your face and screaming hellfire and damnation!

And, I remember Mother Theresa being lables a socialist while she was still alive.

She's got nothing o the Apostles. They were a bunch of commies.

IN YER FACE PAT ROBERTSON!!

I do remember saying "high-profile"...

The problem could be that the only people who get to be "high-profile" in this country are rather radical. People aren't interested in moderates. They aren't interested in calm rationality. They aren't interested in anyone who calmly practices their religion, but leaves you to yours. People don't find those things interesting, so how exactly will they get to be high-profile? You have to rattle the order of things to get attention around here.

It happens on all sides. Ask someone to name a right-wing supporter, they'll name a crazy fundie. Ask someone to name a left-wing supporter, they'll name someone who thinks that we should socialize everything and all women should be getting abortions. Ask someone to name a Muslim, I bet Osama bin Ladin or Saddam Hussein will be the top answers.

Yet there aren't any other voices out there telling the blowhards to stuff it. Or at least none that are getting any real play. Other groups you had mentioned earlier, however, do have those voices.

The emphasized sentence is the important one. They aren't "getting any real play". Why? Because people don't find it interesting. So no one reports on it, no one gets a radio or TV show saying it, etc.

They aren't "getting any real play". Why? Because people don't find it interesting. So no one reports on it, no one gets a radio or TV show saying it, etc.

So, then why not create a market, like Robertson did, only use its powers for good. There have got to be sane christians out there with the same kind of cash that Robby has, so where is the sane version of the CBC?

EDIT: And if there's one out there already, why don't I know that they exist? Commercials cost the same no matter what god you worship.

So, then why not create a market, like Robertson did, only use its powers for good. There have got to be sane christians out there with the same kind of cash that Robby has, so where is the sane version of the CBC?
They're all busy working for Smaritan's Purse, or trying to help aborigies in Borneo, or trying to raise funds to feed poor children in South American, or any one of a thousand "quiet charities" around the world. Because they took to heart the admonition of Jesus to feed the poor and comfort the widows and orphans in their distress. :rolleyes:

I admit that those are good examples. Both loooong dead, but good none the less. But, MLK was murdered by someone who called themself a good christian. And, I remember Mother Theresa being lables a socialist while she was still alive. Do you see what I'm getting at in the post of mine you quoted?

Um, looooong dead is eight years? And MLK was killed was changing the world. It's not common for people to kill people who are changing the status quo and then blame it on one faith or another. Not much of a shock.

You've shown nothing. Most reasonable people don't consider these people to represent Christianity at all. They accept that there are radicals in every group and that they are defined as such because they are 'radical'ly different than the majority. Who do you think is going to take advantage of airtime to 'spread Christianity', those who think it can be done in that way or those who don't? It's an easy question. I notice that you jump all over this clip of an average woman who happened to be on a television show but you didn't even attempt to find any clips of anyone acting in a way that wouldn't be embarassing. And you say, but I didn't have to look. Duh. Which one do you think makes the commercial - "I think you have not been very nice to me, but I respect your beliefs. I humbly hope that one day that you open your heart when you look into our faith." or "I hope you burn in hell, you bunch of no-good evil sons-of-bitches!" Again, not a tough question.

I do remember saying "high-profile"...

I believe why this woman is counted as high-profile is obvious. People enjoy looking at crazy people. And I edited my earlier post to include more high-profile people. Jimmy Carter, Mother Theresa, MLK, Clay Aiken, MC Hammer... the list is exhausting and all of the people in this list are outspoken about their faith if you're willing to listen. The problem is it's not very exciting so it hardly ever makes the evening news.

Yet there aren't any other voices out there telling the blowhards to stuff it. Or at least none that are getting any real play. Other groups you had mentioned earlier, however, do have those voices.

They're not getting any real play, because they are kind and considerate people and kind and considerate isn't exciting and doesn't make ratings. News organizations are stupid.

So, then why not create a market, like Robertson did, only use its powers for good. There have got to be sane christians out there with the same kind of cash that Robby has, so where is the sane version of the CBC?

Actually, based on Christ's teachings, it would be rather difficult for such a Christian to have large amounts of money. On top of that, they would probably be putting the money into charities and such, rather than trying to gain fame and fortune like the Robertsons and Dobbsons of the country.

EDIT: And if there's one out there already, why don't I know that they exist? Commercials cost the same no matter what god you worship.

Have you seen the Church of Christ commercials? The ones preaching a message of tolerance and acceptance of any who wish to come to church? Oh wait, probably not, stations in many areas banned them......

They're all busy working for Smaritan's Purse, or trying to help aborigies in Borneo, or trying to raise funds to feed poor children in South American, or any one of a thousand "quiet charities" around the world. Because they took to heart the admonition of Jesus to feed the poor and comfort the widows and orphans in their distress. :rolleyes:

Thus leaving the idiots to speak for them, getting back to my original point. Thank you!:)

While it's been my unfortunate experience that the majority of Catholics I have met are hateful and overly judgemental, I certainly don't think all are this way. It has however had the effect of making me open my eyes and study other faiths even though I was baptised Catholic. Short of actually meeting a Catholic who isn't spouting condemnations, I don't think I would be willing to go to a Catholic church again.

While I'm not asking or expecting you to change your mind, know that you have met one.

Haha, I've seen this. Priceless.

Thus leaving the idiots to speak for them, getting back to my original point. Thank you!:)

I believe it was Francis of Assissi who once said, "Preach often. If necessary, use words."

Most Christians attempt to preach by living as an example for others. Trying to gain fame and fortune isn't really the example they are trying to give. These Christians are speaking for themselves, and not letting the "idiots" speak for them. You simply aren't listening. This requires some effort on the parts of others to actually talk to these people, instead of resorting to bigotry and stereotyping......

A Catholic priest and a rabbi are walking down the street and they see a group of young boys playing. The priest says,

"Hey, let's go fuck them."

And the rabbi says,

"Out of what?"

these tend to be the only christians you see, because its christians like this that make the headlines, regualr everyday church going christians that dont make a scene,their boring, who wants to watch some guy live a normal life?

i know for a fact that everyone here knows a christian, they see chrisitans everyday, they are normal everyday people, they dont always scream "in jesus i pray". many people you know may be christians and you have no idea. many people its ahrd to know if they are christian or not unless you watch them on sunday mornings.

Thus leaving the idiots to speak for them, getting back to my original point. Thank you!:)

I find that people tend to find what they're looking for. If people are bigots and just looking to justify their bigotry, they will find it. And if that's your point, you've made it. You've admitted that you don't consider any examples that don't prove your point, and we're all aware of why you're trying to make it. But then it's not like you thought some random woman on a show called swapping wives really was the 'face' of Christianity, now did you? It's not really a rational point of view. It's kind of like saying Real World is the face of kids in their early twenties rather than the face of kids in their early twenties who are willing to make an ass of themselves on television. But, hey, go ahead and keep generalizing. I mean, look what it did for the KKK and Hitler.

I find that people tend to find what they're looking for. If people are bigots and just looking to justify their bigotry, they will find it. And if that's your point, you've made it. You've admitted that you don't consider any examples that don't prove your point, and we're all aware of why you're trying to make it. But then it's not like you thought some random woman on a show called swapping wives really was the 'face' of Christianity, now did you? It's not really a rational point of view. It's kind of like saying Real World is the face of kids in their early twenties rather than the face of kids in their early twenties who are willing to make an ass of themselves on television. But, hey, go ahead and keep generalizing. I mean, look what it did for the KKK and Hitler.

All I'm trying to illustrate is the point that, in the case of christianity, the fox is guarding the henhouse. Or, in other words, the zealots of the faith that claims to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ are the ones that are getting the most attention. Why are there no moderate voices that reach the population at large? Jimmy Carter just released a great book about this very thing, and it isn't getting any attention. Why is it that the worst among you are the ones getting all the air time? Pat Robertson has a 24 hour network! When will the sensable among you begin to take back the ideals?

All I'm trying to illustrate is the point that, in the case of christianity, the fox is guarding the henhouse. Or, in other words, the zealots of the faith that claims to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ are the ones that are getting the most attention. Why are there no moderate voices that reach the population at large? Jimmy Carter just released a great book about this very thing, and it isn't getting any attention. Why is it that the worst among you are the ones getting all the air time? Pat Robertson has a 24 hour network! When will the sensable among you begin to take back the ideals?
Why do people like watching car crashes?

Maybe it is not that moderates are not speeking out, maybe it is the fact that there is less intrest in what they have to say. people like to see the outragous not the usual

All I'm trying to illustrate is the point that, in the case of christianity, the fox is guarding the henhouse. Or, in other words, the zealots of the faith that claims to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ are the ones that are getting the most attention. Why are there no moderate voices that reach the population at large? Jimmy Carter just released a great book about this very thing, and it isn't getting any attention. Why is it that the worst among you are the ones getting all the air time? Pat Robertson has a 24 hour network! When will the sensable among you begin to take back the ideals?

It's not the worst among us, it's the worst of every group. You reveal your tre purpose here when you didn't group this woman among women or white trash or among crazy bitches, but among Christians.

We keep saying. We don't have control over it. You want us to abandon our faith to protect it. Jesus told us to pray in private and to not tell our right hand about the good deeds of our left. Thus the only see ones you are going to see collecting funds on television to fund their ministries on television are the ones that don't listen to those teachings. Their ministries become about the money and they say whatever keeps people tuning in. Like the news, like talk shows, like everything on television. The fact that you would observe this and chastise us is ludicrous.

It's not the worst among us, it's the worst of every group. You reveal your tre purpose here when you didn't group this woman among women or white trash or among crazy bitches, but among Christians.

We keep saying. We don't have control over it. You want us to abandon our faith to protect it. Jesus told us to pray in private and to not tell our right hand about the good deeds of our left. Thus the only see ones you are going to see collecting funds on television to fund their ministries on television are the ones that don't listen to those teachings. Their ministries become about the money and they say whatever keeps people tuning in. Like the news, like talk shows, like everything on television. The fact that you would observe this and chastise us is ludicrous.

A good point, finally. But, this does little to change what is happening. I actually do understand what the bible teaches (I grew up in a catholic household 1/2 Roman, 1/2 Irish, imagine the fights at the thanksgiving table...). And, to simply say "Jesus told us to pray in private", is only sewing the seeds of ultimate destruction of the entire religion. Not being vocal in opposition of extreamist views is, in the eyes of most (if not all) people outside the institution, a nod of concent to those views. I.E. by not vocally standing against them, you are basically standing FOR them. And, all it would take on the part of those who disagree is a public display that declared their disagreement, which hasn't been forthcoming.

Because it is one person. Untill you have more evidence you dont make the kind of rash generalisation that 99% of them are like that.


Unfortunately, for many all they need is one to start a free-for-all bashing and persucution of all Christians. They now have substancial evidence that provides the facts! :rolleyes:

A good point, finally. But, this does little to change what is happening. I actually do understand what the bible teaches (I grew up in a catholic household 1/2 Roman, 1/2 Irish, imagine the fights at the thanksgiving table...). And, to simply say "Jesus told us to pray in private", is only sewing the seeds of ultimate destruction of the entire religion. Not being vocal in opposition of extreamist views is, in the eyes of most (if not all) people outside the institution, a nod of concent to those views. I.E. by not vocally standing against them, you are basically standing FOR them. And, all it would take on the part of those who disagree is a public display that declared their disagreement, which hasn't been forthcoming.

But we are being vocal, we're just not getting any airtime. People all over the country, Christians, speak out against Pat Robertson and George Bush. It just doesn't really make much more than a soundbite or the back page of the paper until someone shouts out, "get thee behind me, Satan!"

As far as your comment about "most (if not all)", I disagree. Hey, if we talk about the most vocal Atheists then atheists all think that religion is a mental illness. Of course, this isn't true. Most atheists simply don't believe there is a God, but don't fault theists for belief. People are going to see what they want to see.

In general, and this is true of every group, people who group people to dismiss them are bigots and do I, do we, really care if we can convince a bunch of bigots of who we are? The world is full of bigots, people who judge groups by a minority of people and then blame the majority for not disproving their silly generalizations. We have enough of them in the Christian faith. I'm not really looking for any more. And if I have a choice between them focusing on Christians versus them focusing on women, gays or black people, I hope they focus on us.

"Them niggers are at fault. If they didn't want us to think they all cain't read theyda learnta less illigitimate. Until then, I have the right to call them dumb ass niggers!"

Bigots have always existed and will always exist. They've always blamed the group they are being bigotted against. You're no different. You're entitled to your opinion. Most people can see that there Christians and Christian groups that sacrifice their whole lives to make the lives of others better. That you think that they should have to answer for a woman on television that's clearly mentally unstable says a lot more about you than it does about them.

I don't care about the religion aspect of the thread. I'm just going to go on the record saying she's one crazy/scary bitch who I'd never want to have to share a house with.

The most rational assessment in the thread. She's 'one crazy/scary' person. She represents no one but herself. She's not representative of women, Christians, whites, fat people, people with gaps in their teeth, people from wherever she's from, fundamentalists, or any other group. She's not a leader. She's a psycho. It's obvious to anyone who watched the tape. The fact that anyone would call for people of any group to address this crazy person simply adds credibility to what she is.

Unfortunately, for many all they need is one to start a free-for-all bashing and persucution of all Christians. They now have substancial evidence that provides the facts! :rolleyes:
Cause we all know christians are comparitivly persecuted in this country:rolleyes:

You're missing the point. People see christianity as a "monolithic organization" because of people like this, not in spite of them. Chritianity is not seen as a diverse group of people with different demoniations because of people like this. Yes, there is freedom of speech and religion, but people like this are making YOU look like them, and none of the sane people of your faith are helping to diffuse that assumption.

Maybe it's because the only place you're going to get the message I get from my church is AT CHURCH.

Apparently, too many people are offended by the message that my church might offer (even though it is a message of acceptance and love), so we're confined to speaking about it inside our building by atheists who sue when a Christian opens their mouth in public.

The "sane" people of faith have learned a long time ago that distributing tracts in public and harassing people about Jesus only offends those we wish to inform - so if you want to hear from "sane" Christians, I suggest that you go to church on Sundays and listen to the sermon - that's where the "sane" Christians hang out to get the messages - largely because the "sane" Christians are trying very hard not to offend the atheists.

Hey, if we talk about the most vocal Atheists then atheists all think that religion is a mental illness. Of course, this isn't true. Most atheists simply don't believe there is a God, but don't fault theists for belief. People are going to see what they want to see.
I suspect that most atheists do fault theists for their belief, because atheists usually recognize that belief, or faith, is fallacious in itself. What most atheists don't do is deny people the right to believe what they want, however silly it is. They don't burn churches or mosques, or attempt to force others to read their beliefs by having "In God we Disbelieve" put on money etc.

The evidence that religious belief is a mental condition is stacking up ...

Maybe it's because the only place you're going to get the message I get from my church is AT CHURCH.

Apparently, too many people are offended by the message that my church might offer (even though it is a message of acceptance and love), so we're confined to speaking about it inside our building by atheists who sue when a Christian opens their mouth in public.
snip
A private citizen has been sued for talking about Christianity in public? Ive never heard of this you have a linky?

A private citizen has been sued for talking about Christianity in public? Ive never heard of this you have a linky?

Try mentioning God during a meeting of the Herndon Town Council, and you'll get thrown out. You don't even have to be preaching, or be a town official. Just making a comment as a public citizen during a hearing.

After the meeting, several people threatened to sue me for simply saying that when it comes to building a job center for illegal immigrants (who ordinarily stand by the hundreds in a 7-11 parking lot) we should ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?"

Try mentioning God during a meeting of the Herndon Town Council, and you'll get thrown out. You don't even have to be preaching, or be a town official. Just making a comment as a public citizen during a hearing.

After the meeting, several people threatened to sue me for simply saying that when it comes to building a job center for illegal immigrants (who ordinarily stand by the hundreds in a 7-11 parking lot) we should ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?"
Intresting ... I wonder on what grounds they had a right to sue ... none that I know of

Apparently, too many people are offended by the message that my church might offer (even though it is a message of acceptance and love), so we're confined to speaking about it inside our building by atheists who sue when a Christian opens their mouth in public.
Can you cite a single case of a Christian being sued for opening his mouth in public, as opposed to the very specific act of promoting religion on government property or at government expense?

If promoting Christianity in public was a an offence, all the evangelical TV stations would have been shut down by now!

The "sane" people of faith have learned a long time ago that distributing tracts in public and harassing people about Jesus only offends those we wish to inform - so if you want to hear from "sane" Christians, I suggest that you go to church on Sundays and listen to the sermon - that's where the "sane" Christians hang out to get the messages - largely because the "sane" Christians are trying very hard not to offend the atheists.
Or because they know that their message doesn't stand up to rational scrutiny, so they only preach to the converted :)

I suspect that most atheists do fault theists for their belief, because atheists usually recognize that belief, or faith, is fallacious in itself. What most atheists don't do is deny people the right to believe what they want, however silly it is. They don't burn churches or mosques, or attempt to force others to read their beliefs by having "In God we Disbelieve" put on money etc.

The evidence that religious belief is a mental condition is stacking up ...

Hey, when the only evidence you accept is the evidence that justifies your beliefs then I would guess that you would feel that the evidence is stacking up in your favor. However, your refusal to look at anything that disagrees with what you already believe is as bad as some fundamentalists refusing to accept that science has a place. That you consider religion a mental condition shows your lack of understanding of religion and of mental conditions.

Try mentioning God during a meeting of the Herndon Town Council, and you'll get thrown out. You don't even have to be preaching, or be a town official. Just making a comment as a public citizen during a hearing.

After the meeting, several people threatened to sue me for simply saying that when it comes to building a job center for illegal immigrants (who ordinarily stand by the hundreds in a 7-11 parking lot) we should ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?"
So your offence wasn't speaking in public per se - it was invoking religion in government proceedings, on government property.

So your offence wasn't speaking in public per se - it was invoking religion in government proceedings, on government property.

It's speaking in public at a public hearing. Not as a public official.

Maybe I should have said, "What would Stalin do?" and no one would have been offended.

Maybe I should have said, "What would Stalin do?" and no one would have been offended.
Dont know about that ... some may take it as comparing them to a ruthless dictator like that ...

People find a lot to be offended about ...

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.
Wow, so what is that ladies NS name?

I mean you said "NS Christians" so what is her name. I mean since she is the one all the NS folks have been exposed too--or wait.

Maybe she is the one mouthbreathing couch pilots are exposed to, maybe she is the one gibbering whorshippers of the almighty GodBox are exposed and that little snippet of piss poor reality television has no effect on eductated Atheists or real Christian on NS or anywhere--time for a little introspection, and put the remote control down.

Just to be clear, the first amendment prevents the government as an entity from having a religion, not people who are in the government. A person is absolutely permitted to mention their religion during a public meeting, particularly when that person is there in no official capacity and simply as a member of the public. The first amendment doesn't protect you from hearing about God or any particular religion, it protects you from being forced to endorse a religion through your government and from being hindered in the your free practice of religion by the government. Since he wasn't operating in any official capacity on behalf of the government, there is no argument against what he did.

Just to be clear, the first amendment prevents the government as an entity from having a religion, not people who are in the government. A person is absolutely permitted to mention their religion during a public meeting, particularly when that person is there in no official capacity and simply as a member of the public. The first amendment doesn't protect you from hearing about God or any particular religion, it protects you from being forced to endorse a religion through your government and from being hindered in the your free practice of religion by the government. Since he wasn't operating in any official capacity on behalf of the government, there is no argument against what he did.

Try making that point in front of a majority of people who believe that you're not allowed to say, "Jesus" and who are yelling at you to STFU.

Try making that point in front of a majority of people who believe that you're not allowed to say, "Jesus" and who are yelling at you to STFU.

I have. And will continue to. People don't understand the difference between taking God off the dollar bill (which I back whole-heartedly) and stifling free speech. I will always stand up for free speech even if you're hollering about killing jews and how great Hitler was.

Hmmmm.....well considering both of my parents have been excommunicate form the Church (both had marriages that went sour, and refused to have it annuled) and my brother and I are forever doomed to a lifetime of torture due to this excommunication, I do not care one bit for Catholics. Someone a while back in this thread said that only the Evangical branch of Christianity are similar to this woman (though nowhere near as extreme) and that they have never met a single Christian who raised their voice and threatened "fire and damnation." Well, sadly I have never had the joy of that experience: At least ten members of every other sect has threatened me with this "fire and damnation" and told me I will forever burn in hell. Here at UF, there was even a group of people (more specificallly one preacher) who would stand in Turnlington Plaza and preach. One day he looked towards me, and shouted, "The NonBelievers will burn in hell for their transgressions. Repent now my son, or forever perish," at which point I started to argue with him about the matter. Well, suffice to say, last week he was arrested for disorderly conduct and disturbing classes. I was there, watching him being put in the squad car: Sadly, it brought me joy, to see an extremist taken away to his setence.

It is a shame people can not just accept that others view religion differently, and are not going to burn in hell for believing else. Sad to say, I believe that when the Extremist are going to be shocked when they get to heaven, for before them, God will sit down. He will be dressed in a suit carrying a clipboard.

"Good Morning, Mr. Smith. Let me see....Ouch, when you were 15 you became an Extremist: minus 12 points.....and when you were 20, yeah: Let's not go there and just subtract 30. Hey you saved a child from a burning house, but you began to tell her this near death was caused by her sins: minus 40......Well, I think I have seen enough....Goodbye"

A light shines upon the man, whom is crying out: "I have done your bidding, spread your word..."

"No: You have taken My Word, and turned it into YOUR word. For that....Have fun in HELL!!!!!"

I have. And will continue to. People don't understand the difference between taking God off the dollar bill (which I back whole-heartedly) and stifling free speech. I will always stand up for free speech even if you're hollering about killing jews and how great Hitler was.
I think the people at the meeting were already very angry about the illegal immigration problem. What was funny was that it was both Democrats and Republicans telling me to STFU.

Republicans, because they were against building the job center to aid illegal immigrants, and Democrats because they can't stand to hear the word "Jesus" in a public meeting.

I'm still thinking I would have gotten farther with referring to Stalin.

Try making that point in front of a majority of people who believe that you're not allowed to say, "Jesus" and who are yelling at you to STFU.
Just because you have the right to say it does not mean they have the right to respect your standpoint

I think it would only be polite too but thats my opinion

i wish people like that wouldn't call themselves christians...becasue tehy're not. they may think they are, but can you think of anything even slightly resembling Christ about them? so instead, they're just lost, conceited, self-righteous hypocrites. they are the number 1 cause of atheism in the world today...makes me want to cry. i know that's the face of my religion, but that's not what i beleive, how i act, or even slightly similar to anything concerning me or my faith. so when i say i'm a christian, don't think of that, think of somebody who tries his best to be Christ-like.

Hmmmm.....well considering both of my parents have been excommunicate form the Church (both had marriages that went sour, and refused to have it annuled) and my brother and I are forever doomed to a lifetime of torture due to this excommunication, I do not care one bit for Catholics. Someone a while back in this thread said that only the Evangical branch of Christianity are similar to this woman (though nowhere near as extreme) and that they have never met a single Christian who raised their voice and threatened "fire and damnation." Well, sadly I have never had the joy of that experience: At least ten members of every other sect has threatened me with this "fire and damnation" and told me I will forever burn in hell. Here at UF, there was even a group of people (more specificallly one preacher) who would stand in Turnlington Plaza and preach. One day he looked towards me, and shouted, "The NonBelievers will burn in hell for their transgressions. Repent now my son, or forever perish," at which point I started to argue with him about the matter. Well, suffice to say, last week he was arrested for disorderly conduct and disturbing classes. I was there, watching him being put in the squad car: Sadly, it brought me joy, to see an extremist taken away to his setence.

It is a shame people can not just accept that others view religion differently, and are not going to burn in hell for believing else. Sad to say, I believe that when the Extremist are going to be shocked when they get to heaven, for before them, God will sit down. He will be dressed in a suit carrying a clipboard.

"Good Morning, Mr. Smith. Let me see....Ouch, when you were 15 you became an Extremist: minus 12 points.....and when you were 20, yeah: Let's not go there and just subtract 30. Hey you saved a child from a burning house, but you began to tell her this near death was caused by her sins: minus 40......Well, I think I have seen enough....Goodbye"

A light shines upon the man, whom is crying out: "I have done your bidding, spread your word..."

"No: You have taken My Word, and turned it into YOUR word. For that....Have fun in HELL!!!!!"
i agree with you completely...the point thing is kinda funny...but essentially, yes. the message isn't supposed to be "you're a non-believer so burn in hell!" it's more like "jesus loves you! why don't you come up to heaven with us?

Religion is a mental condition

So's sanity. Your point?

Wow, so what is that ladies NS name?

I mean you said "NS Christians" so what is her name. I mean since she is the one all the NS folks have been exposed too--or wait.

Maybe she is the one mouthbreathing couch pilots are exposed to, maybe she is the one gibbering whorshippers of the almighty GodBox are exposed and that little snippet of piss poor reality television has no effect on eductated Atheists or real Christian on NS or anywhere--time for a little introspection, and put the remote control down.
Remember Neo Rogolia?

"No: You have taken My Word, and turned it into YOUR word. For that....Have fun in HELL!!!!!"
While I appreciate the sentiment, these people are human too. I don't think they're any more deserving of hell than someone who leads a decent enough life without Christianity.

The problem with the whole concept isn't anything to do with the value of life; it's to do with an attempt to Quantify and Compare the value of any given life by applying criteria based on a person's social background. That's a practice that ultimately misses the point of living entirely, and yet is repeated throughout mankind's worst ventures. I find it amusing that people can claim to be "in but not of the world" when they hold this principle, that drives humans to do all sorts of stupid things, very close to their hearts.

Remember Neo Rogolia?
lol, Touche'.

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.
ahahahahahaahahaha!!!!!


though it'd be good to see the rest of the show for some context

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you.

As another poster said, chosen by who? By the producers of Trading Spouses? If that's what you mean, then it's no wonder they chose the way they did. Swapping a new-ager and a reasonable Christian wouldn't have made for anywhere near the same amount of conflict and excitement.

Maybe you mean that more generally. In that case, I'll ask again, chosen by who? By the Christians themselves? I doubt it. Perhaps you ought to consider the possibility that atheists who want to discredit Christianity seek out and choose people like her to be its "outward face."

Food for thought.

lol, Touche'.
Don't get me wrong. I have a very, very hard time picturing 2 families like that on the same continent, but I have even more trouble picturing NR doing reality TV.

Still, I disagree with the OP. The God Warrior psycho isn't the face of Christianity in the US. Bush & Pat Robertson are.

I'm not so sure the former wouldn't be an improvement though. At least she's fun as long as there's a volume control.

By the christians out there getting "face time". I don't see "moderate" or "true" christians making efforts to marginalize people like this as the minority that they truly are. Do you?

You clearly dont understand the media. The reason that mainstream christians dont get attention is because they are precisely that. Mainstream. They arnt intersting to the media and so the media doesnt want to hear what they have to say. As for your claim, look at people like Ravi Zacarias, Ian Mayo, Paul Marsh, John Blanchard. These people, and those like them are doing the things you speak of. But its less important for Christians to make a public face for themselves than it is to lead the Christian life.

You clearly dont understand the media. The reason that mainstream christians dont get attention is because they are precisely that. Mainstream. They arnt intersting to the media and so the media doesnt want to hear what they have to say.
I know it's off-topic, but I'm curious. Do you consider yourself a mainstream American christian?

- You don't have to answer, like I said, I'm just curious :)

I know it's off-topic, but I'm curious. Do you consider yourself a mainstream American christian?

- You don't have to answer, like I said, I'm just curious :)

I consider myself a born again British Christian. In Britain that is mainstream enough, but in Britian less than 9% of the population profess any kind of religous belief

I consider myself a born again British Christian
Ah! Cheers then ;)

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.
sorry to burst anyone's bubbles', but not only is it the face chosen to represent christianity, but it actually IS the true face of christianity, IMO.

sorry to burst anyone's bubbles', but not only is it the face chosen to represent christianity, but it actually IS the true face of christianity, IMO.

Yep, and that opinion has about the same amount of worth as this lady's does to me. You're welcome to hold it, but it doesn't make it valid.

i would call myself a "mainstream" christian...in that i don't go around telling people they're going to burn in hell, but i also take every chance i get (or at least try to) to talk about my faith...cuz hey, paradise sounds sweet to me, wouldn't want y'all to miss out

i agree

sorry to burst anyone's bubbles', but not only is it the face chosen to represent christianity, but it actually IS the true face of christianity, IMO.

Would you care to support that opinion at all. You have the freedom to have that opinon and you have the freedom to be wrong. I am not questioning your freedom to be wrong, only your wisdom in remaining so.

Would you care to support that opinion at all. You have the freedom to have that opinon and you have the freedom to be wrong. I am not questioning your freedom to be wrong, only your wisdom in remaining so.
Ooh, nice. Punctuation aside, that was a pretty good burn. ^^

Ooh, nice. Punctuation aside, that was a pretty good burn. ^^

I'm reminded of That 70's Show whenever I hear that term. I love how that show brought back the term.

i would call myself a "mainstream" christian...in that i don't go around telling people they're going to burn in hell, but i also take every chance i get (or at least try to) to talk about my faith...cuz hey, paradise sounds sweet to me, wouldn't want y'all to miss out
Lots of things sound sweet to me, but it doesn't make them true.

Lots of things sound sweet to me, but it doesn't make them true.

Yeah, like religious tolerance sounds like paradise to me. Unfortunately, you're here to make sure we don't get to enjoy a little of that.

Yeah, like religious tolerance sounds like paradise to me. Unfortunately, you're here to make sure we don't get to enjoy a little of that.
Well, it is a fair criticism. Often, things that sound too good to be true are too good to be true. A statement needs to have backing beyond the possible beneficial effects to the observer. Not that there isn't some backing already; just that it may not necessarily be enough for some people.

Well, it is a fair criticism. Often, things that sound too good to be true are too good to be true. A statement needs to have backing beyond the possible beneficial effects to the observer. Not that there isn't some backing already; just that it may not necessarily be enough for some people.

Oh, come on. S/he just couldn't wait for an opportunity to mention that it doesn't exist (in his/her opinion).

The poster made a fair point about how and why s/he tells people about his/her faith when possible and Candelar saw it and said, "oh, dear, if I don't insult their faith quickly they might think it's okay to have that faith." S/he has had 15 posts, and of all the intelligent things there are to discuss on NS, 14 of them have been an attack on Christianity or religion in general.

To everyone: There is no emperical proof for the existence for God, Heaven, Hell, angels, demons or the Savior. Reasonable Christians accept this. Reasonable Christians are also not trying to force our faith on you through law and trapping you into listening to us. We seek only to share our faith amongst ourselves and with others with open minds and hearts. There is no reason to fear us. I know misery loves company (in my mind that is why women like the one in the video behave that way) but if you look you'll see you already have plenty. We're perfectly content with letting you wait for emperical proof. You'll be waiting a long time, but you're welcome to wait.

Lots of things sound sweet to me, but it doesn't make them true.

And lots of things sound clever to say, but that doesnt make them true.

TO: NS Christians

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.

I didn't bother to read all the posts but really I think you are being a little over the top. I haven't seen Christianity commonly represented quit in this manner. And there are isolated examples of people of every sort of belief that act crazy.

A more legitimate critisism would be if you pointed out certain greedy TV evangelists, or those full of hatred like Pat Robertson. These people do have big followings in the Christian community (though still rejected by the vast majority of Christians). They really do represent a negative outward face of Christianity. As I've said before I'm not really sure how to go about stoping them. I can say all I want that this isn't Christianity and I can try to live differently to show people the good side of us, but I don't know what else to do.

It's rather unfair that everytime someone who claims Christianity acts poorly that the whole religion is judged based on it. Christianity doesn't claim Christians are perfect. In fact the Bible says they aren't and it says those claiming to be perfect are liars. Though we should be more active in denouncing the likes of Pat Robertson, Christians as a whole, really cannot effectively control every person. Besides what is it that we suppose to do? Sounds like she got worked up into hysteria and wasn't thinking. How do you stop someone prone to hysterics from getting hysterical? That seems like more of a job for a psychologist.

My mom had her house purified after she found out lesbians screwed in it. She felt the need to remove all those Lesbo demons that she could feel gathering around her. I consider my mom a shining example of what Christianity is.

Texas and their gay marriage ban vote is also a shining example of what Christianity is.

Even if Bush and Pat are not what Christianity is it would still be nice to see Christians help make them retards go away like out of the white house or off of television. Also I could care less as to whether or not Pat was taken outa context in his latest asssassination speak or that he meant it in jest. He has spoken plenty of other crap. There is really no need to add this one in order to show what a jerk he is.

Still, I disagree with the OP. The God Warrior psycho isn't the face of Christianity in the US. Bush & Pat Robertson are.
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That's just mean:eek: .

Though I do like old Pat, better sense of humor then every idiot who insisted he was seriously suggesting assassination of Hugo.

I have this cool little logo, says "Soldier of the Cross". Makes me feel good, especially when i get the "Uh-Oh" look when others see it. My shaved head and big black boots. They start clicking off possibilites.
Christian Identity Nut. Is usually what is expected.

They wait for my militant Christian assault.

Then out it comes--my rhetoric.

"Not really my place to judge"

and they say "Oh."

These other people like Big lady on the clip for the couch riders who have nothing better to do thn drink reality TV--as opposed to living in actually reality.
Anyway I almost went on a rant, like big crazy lady--huh if this was india she would be a Hindu screaming for the Vishnu statues and rubbing cow urine on her face because of the all the bad Karma those people brought on her.
You know, attention whores. Not directing this next part at Similized world, Iam just speaking in general.

The face of my religion is my face. If you choose to imprint some other persona upon me with no justification--that is called PREJUDICE--as in to PRE-JUDGE.

That is your malfunction, not mine.

I hasten to point out that no one has made a creadable point to the question of who chose this face to represent Christians. The answer is of course the media. So the question next is, how is the media in any way a good source of infomation about Christianity.

The face of my religion is my face. If you choose to imprint some other persona upon me with no justification--that is called PREJUDICE--as in to PRE-JUDGE.

That is your malfunction, not mine.
Quite true. And actually, I should have said "the face of American Christians", as what's presented as normal, mainstream Christianity in other parts of the world is quite different.

Worse still, I might as well have said that the face of America is people like Bush & Patty O'Brimstone. Because increasingly it is.

I try very hard indeed to look past what's presented by the media as the norm in this case, because I do realize most Americans aren't insane gibbering maniacs, but unfortunately I could be more successful. I suppose haunting this place doesn't help my efforts.

But it is prejudice, and it is my malfunction, as you aptly called. Keep posting though, and you might just help some of us rid ourselves of it.

Quite true. And actually, I should have said "the face of American Christians", as what's presented as normal, mainstream Christianity in other parts of the world is quite different.

Worse still, I might as well have said that the face of America is people like Bush & Patty O'Brimstone. Because increasingly it is.

I try very hard indeed to look past what's presented by the media as the norm in this case, because I do realize most Americans aren't insane gibbering maniacs, but unfortunately I could be more successful. I suppose haunting this place doesn't help my efforts.

But it is prejudice, and it is my malfunction, as you aptly called. Keep posting though, and you might just help some of us rid ourselves of it.

For the record, I've found you to be quite reasonable. It seems to me despite what you're saying here that when dealing with individuals you let them rise or fall on their own merits. I've never felt prejudged by you, but perhaps I missed it.

You missed the most crazy, out-of-control psycho bitch I have seen since Ann Coulter!


So I was right, then.

Quite true. And actually, I should have said "the face of American Christians", as what's presented as normal, mainstream Christianity in other parts of the world is quite different.

Worse still, I might as well have said that the face of America is people like Bush & Patty O'Brimstone. Because increasingly it is.

I try very hard indeed to look past what's presented by the media as the norm in this case, because I do realize most Americans aren't insane gibbering maniacs, but unfortunately I could be more successful. I suppose haunting this place doesn't help my efforts.

But it is prejudice, and it is my malfunction, as you aptly called. Keep posting though, and you might just help some of us rid ourselves of it.
Hey there!!!
I specifically said that last part was not directed at you. You are quite reasonable, as the other poster said--even humorous--the Bush adn Roberts thing was funny, i was just adding to by saying it was 'mean'.
If you managed to offend anyone with your even handed posts then feck 'em.

I am an American Christian--you didnt offend me, and I am part of the group you speaking of. Your comments make perfect sense.

I hasten to point out that no one has made a creadable point to the question of who chose this face to represent Christians. The answer is of course the media. So the question next is, how is the media in any way a good source of infomation about Christianity.

*lol
What else would be a source of information about Christianity if not media? ;)

Maybe the reason bad Christianity gets so much publicity is becuase it is good for the ratings.

Maybe the reason bad Christianity gets so much publicity is becuase it is good for the ratings.

When was the last time you saw a Muslim on TV the was represented in a half-rational way?
I've seen threads on here asking for the extermination of the Islamic religion on the basis that obviously the sole objective of this religion was to kill Americans :rolleyes:

This woman here, and this thread here, are just the other side of the same coin.

I had a good laugh at her, I was thankful for the fact that one way or another, at least I don't have to live in the same country, and that was it. I don't assume that all Christians are like her, I don't assume that all Americans are like her, I don't even assume that all American Christians are like her.
I did pitty her poor family, though...

I hasten to point out that no one has made a creadable point to the question of who chose this face to represent Christians. The answer is of course the media. So the question next is, how is the media in any way a good source of infomation about Christianity.

While the media often protrays Christians as crazed fundamentalists. I would still argue that that women goes far beyond the typical Christian stereotype. I don't think it's accurate to say that this women is the norm for how Christians are protrayed. Though I'm not sure if how the media usually protrays Christians as any better.

But thats a good point. Christians don't pick to be protrayed that way. They haven't elected her as a representative. Over 99% of them would think she was crazy. In fact from what I could gather from the clip that women's own family thought she was crazy.

God that was hi-didly-harious!

Hey, am I the only one who found it ironic how after she said "I'm a spiritual warrior!! I can not be corrupted!! I am not dark-sided!!!" and her dramatic ripping of the money, she decided that making a stand (as stupid and over-the-top as it was) was not worth the 50, 000 bucks she stood to make?

Here was my favorite quote:

"Get the hell outta my house, in Jesus' name I pray!"

Wait, wait, wait . . . did you just link a frivolous use of the word "hell" (many, and I would think especially she, would deem it a profanity) to the will of Jesus?

That's just rich! This woman is few linemen short of a football team.

This (http://65.36.225.227/images/trading-spouses-hi.wmv) is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.
And then people try to tell us that religion is not a mental illness?? :D

To be serious, this is not why most atheists are atheists, in my experience. We're atheists simply because we do not believe that the existence of God is a credible hypothesis. Whether Christians appear as raving fundamentalist lunatics or as the nicest, mildest and most open-minded country vicars, the very basis of their religion is incorrect, in our view.

Here in the UK, Christian fundamentalists are an insignificant minority within the small minority of active Christians. The face of Christianity over here is the civilized, tolerant, Church of England, and yet non-belief is strong and growing.

And then people try to tell us that religion is not a mental illness?? :D

To be serious, this is not why most atheists are atheists, in my experience. We're atheists simply because we do not believe that the existence of God is a credible hypothesis. Whether Christians appear as raving fundamentalist lunatics or as the nicest, mildest and most open-minded country vicars, the very basis of their religion is incorrect, in our view.

Here in the UK, Christian fundamentalists are an insignificant minority within the small minority of active Christians. The face of Christianity over here is the civilized, tolerant, Church of England, and yet non-belief is strong and growing.

Yes, that sure is undeniable proof. How can anyone refute that? And it's proof that women are all crazy. And being stupid makes you fat. What other conclusions can we draw about huge groups of people from one person. Hmmm.... People who don't look at individuals as individuals are not doing anyone any favors. It's the very basis of bigotry.

Your second and third paragraphs are very reasonable, but you would do well to accept that this woman doesn't represent anyone but herself. There are lunatics of every belief. At least ours are highly amusing.

Yes, that sure is undeniable proof. How can anyone refute that? And it's proof that women are all crazy. And being stupid makes you fat. What other conclusions can we draw about huge groups of people from one person. Hmmm.... People who don't look at individuals as individuals are not doing anyone any favors. It's the very basis of bigotry.

Your second and third paragraphs are very reasonable, but you would do well to accept that this woman doesn't represent anyone but herself. There are lunatics of every belief. At least ours are highly amusing.
Hahaha! I think I might have to tell you to calm down slightly today Jocabia :p

He was just poking fun, eh? No need to rip his head off ;)

Hahaha! I think I might have to tell you to calm down slightly today Jocabia :p

He was just poking fun, eh? No need to rip his head off ;)

So was I. Like I said his second and third paragraph were highly amusing. The part about bigotry was more about the origin of the thread than about him. He does often say that Christianity is mental illness, however.

I'd say that at most, even in this area, less than 10% of my neighbors are that nutty. But think about it folks, doesn't a 10% margin of nuts like her living next door scare the living crap out of you?

So was I. Like I said his second and third paragraph were highly amusing. The part about bigotry was more about the origin of the thread than about him. He does often say that Christianity is mental illness, however.
While I wouldn't pick on Christianity in particuliar, several studies have shown hyperreligiousity is a sign of serious mental illness. Or temporal lobe epilepsy.:D

I'd say that at most, even in this area, less than 10% of my neighbors are that nutty. But think about it folks, doesn't a 10% margin of nuts like her living next door scare the living crap out of you?

Nope. It makes me want to buy popcorn and watch the show. It's not like if she decided to attack me I couldn't just back up until she had a heart attack. Nobody takes people like that seriously. Even her family was like, "Uh-huh, what the heck ever!"

TO: NS Christians

This is the outward face of your religion. I know that this is a minority among you, but this is the face that has been chosen to represent you. And, you wonder why "atheists" exist at all in the face of this monstrosity. I know there will be complaints, but it won't change the fact. Watch, learn, and hopefully, work to change it. Don't let people like this speak for your faith anymore.

First of all, you are correct in saying that this woman is a MINORITY among Christian believers (I would even venture to say 0.0001% of all Christians). However, to say that this woman has been "chosen" to be the "representative" for all Christians is misleading. I mean, come on... just because a religious fanatic is selected by producers for a trashy show on FOX in order to make for entertaining TV that that automatically makes her THE representative for two billion people worldwide??? That, my friend, is a logical fallacy.

And secondly, if she really did represent 99% of all Christians (as someone suggested could be the case), then I guess the chances are pretty high that Mother Teresa would be just like that lady, huh?

Considering that lady's attitude throughout the whole show (I didn't watch it, but I saw various clips of it from CNN), I could not justify her actions to be Christianly in the first place. The Bible tells us that our actions should reflect the kindness and compassion of Christ to everyone we meet. Apparently, that lady's actions did none of those.