NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok I heard this on the Rush Limbaugh show, so at this point I have no verifiable basis, but it does at least make an interesting hypothetical situation.

According to the guest host, there is a dorm manager who was holding a bible study in his room. The college said that he couldn't do that, neither in his room or anywhere on campus, because he was an employee of the college as well as a student.

My questions:
The fact that as a private institution (although gov't subsidised) they make make whatever rules they want aside, do you think this was wrong?

If you support the college banning this student from holding any type of bible study on campus, would you also support a ban if he was holding a Koran study, or a Torah study?

The basis supposedly given is that the college feels that by doing religious activities in his room or in the dorm buliding he may alienate residents who might have otherwise come to him in his capacity as dorm manager. If you agree with that basis would you also support preventing a muslim from conducting his prayers in his rooms?

Finally on a side note: Do you feel that the ACLU would come to defend this student? Would they defend him if he was a Muslim student?

Again, I posing this as a hypothecital situation as I can not at this time validate the actual occurance of this issue, so please don't ask for proof that this happen....or I shall blow snot in your general direction!:rolleyes:

This Dorm Manager, was he a "live on campus", or a student?

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov05/368030.asp

http://www.ktvotv3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4069814&nav=1LFs

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/2/142240.shtml

That's just the first three links on Google...and I didn't even get to the news section.

This Dorm Manager, was he a "live on campus", or a student?
See the links, but he was an student Resident Assistant who was also as Junior at the college

They are a private institution they have the right to determine what they allow and do not allow on their pay

If he was a "live in" student he is essentialy geting payed for his time on campus so he was theoredicaly geting reimbursed for bible study

I can see their point

Personaly I would be more happy puting a time limit on when these sort of students are "on duty" and when they are not on duty they can do anything they please that do not violate normal student regulations

Wow I got a friend going there! he is also an RA in their dorms! (small world isent it)

Going to have to call him

They are a private institution they have the right to determine what they allow and do not allow on their pay

If he was a "live in" student he is essentialy geting payed for his time on campus so he was theoredicaly geting reimbursed for bible study

I can see their point

I do too, however do you think they really would have said anything if he had been conducting Koran studies?

Personaly I would be more happy puting a time limit on when these sort of students are "on duty" and when they are not on duty they can do anything they please that do not violate normal student regulations

Indeed, although I also see the "need" to be on duty 24/7. It's a hard situation to balance.

Dorm managers, at least at my college, do not get payed. Their room and board is free. They still have to pay for tuition and all other expenses.

Also, this is a state college. He lead this on his own time, as a student, not as an RA. This is an attack on religious rights, IMHO.

Ok I heard this on the Rush Limbaugh show, so at this point I have no verifiable basis, but it does at least make an interesting hypothetical situation.

According to the guest host, there is a dorm manager who was holding a bible study in his room. The college said that he couldn't do that, neither in his room or anywhere on campus, because he was an employee of the college as well as a student.

Okay, is this written in the contract/rules somewhere? If so than they have the law on thier side: he shoulda read the fine print.

If they are just making up laws willy nilly: than he should sue.

My questions:
The fact that as a private institution (although gov't subsidised) they make make whatever rules they want aside, do you think this was wrong?

Nope, if they made the laws before he was "hired" than it was his responsibility to check priot to the study.

If you support the college banning this student from holding any type of bible study on campus, would you also support a ban if he was holding a Koran study, or a Torah study?

Yes, if the rules are against religious study than they are against it. If the rules only ban Bible study than I'd sue for first amendment. Because one religion has things personal preferences.

The basis supposedly given is that the college feels that by doing religious activities in his room or in the dorm buliding he may alienate residents who might have otherwise come to him in his capacity as dorm manager. If you agree with that basis would you also support preventing a muslim from conducting his prayers in his rooms?

No the reasoning sounds like group religious activities. They didn't ban him from reading his bible or praying by himself.
If a Muslim wishes to pray with a group than he is/should prevented too. It seems to indicate you can't do stuff with others.


Finally on a side note: Do you feel that the ACLU would come to defend this student? Would they defend him if he was a Muslim student?

Again, I posing this as a hypothecital situation as I can not at this time validate the actual occurance of this issue, so please don't ask for proof that this happen....or I shall blow snot in your general direction!:rolleyes:
Yes the ACLU should defend him unless the student didn't read the rules. If this was a rule the college just made up specially for this moment than you have a court case. Doesn't matter if he was a sdantanist, Muslim, Christian, or Buddhist.

Dorm managers, at least at my college, do not get payed. Their room and board is free. They still have to pay for tuition and all other expenses.

Also, this is a state college. He lead this on his own time, as a student, not as an RA. This is an attack on religious rights, IMHO.
According to some of the articles (the others I've read didn't contridict, simply not mention) he was paid, beside the room and board; a little over $600 a month

This story is not such a big deal. A university employee can't use his/her authority and position for religious, political, or ideological purposes.

The university forbids resident assistants from hosting religious or political activities in the dorms where they work to ensure that R.A.'s are accessible to all students, said spokesman Mike Rindo. Resident assistants are essentially state employees. They receive free room and board and a $675-per-semester stipend in exchange for nurturing and counseling dorm residents.

"R.A.s are free to engage in these activities as long as they are not doing it in an environment where they have supervisory roles over other students," Rindo said.

In a Sept. 22 e-mail to Steiger, Deborah Newman, associate director of housing and residence life, elaborated on the university's position.

"As a state employee, you and I have a responsibility to make sure we are providing an environment that does not put undue pressure on any member of our halls in terms of religion, political parties, etc.," Newman wrote. "As a 'leader' of a Bible study, one of the roles is to gather and encourage people to attend. These two roles have a strong possibility to conflict in your hall."

The university's position is backed by a similar written policy at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and is supported by the Freedom from Religion Foundation in Madison.

"There's free speech, but this isn't free," said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. "This amounts to taxpayer subsidy of worship."

Chris Ahmuty, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, said his organization is looking into the issue. Ahmuty agreed with the university's position that state employees should not be organizing religious or political events on work time or place.

"The function of the R.A. is almost like a big brother or big sister," Ahmuty said. "When they're in the dorm they're an R.A. 24/7. . . . This isn't like a jail situation where students have no other alternative. They can go off campus."

....

The school's policy, which also applies to political and ideological activities, is communicated to new resident assistants during a verbal orientation and is not in writing, Rindo said.

They'll probably fix this part:

The school's policy, which also applies to political and ideological activities, is communicated to new resident assistants during a verbal orientation and is not in writing, Rindo said.

meh. it's an r.a. hosting a religious event in the same location as where they work as an agent of the state - essentially the same as a judge holding bible study in a court room.

and it's not as if the college isn't surrounded by christian stuff anyway. iirc, UW-EC has more than enough churches around it to fill any christian's needs. and they certainly have a couple of campus christian groups with funding and everything. no need or reason for state employees who serve as snoops and informants for the disciplinary arm of the university to hold more of them in the dorms.

That's a tough one. Being an RA isn't like a normal "job" really, and I don't see how it should restrict activities to this point. However, I can see the point the school is making.

I'm not sure which way the ACLU would go on this one. It probably depends on how the policy is enforced.

As for the RA not being able to hold his study *anywhere* on campus, I agree with this only if no student groups are allowed to worship on campus (something I highly doubt, as I have yet to see a campus without religious organizations).