NationStates Jolt Archive

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
As a Muslim, I say screw that!

No problem. Actually, I volunteer to work on those holidays anyways. And I get the time&a-half for it gladly, since I am at work while everyone else is at home. And if I ever get married, it will be in a civil ceremony anyways. You're not hurting us there, bud.

Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

I don't celebrate Christmas (never have).

I don't celebrate Easter (never have).

I was not married in a church.

I was not married by a Pastor.

I'm doin' just fine, thanks.

Is there some point here?

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
I'm pretty sure if Santa will bring Christimas to Iraqi's while simultaneously having jesus die to save him while also rescuing the boys from south park, that he'll give Athiests the benefit of the doubt.

As a Muslim, I say screw that!

Hooray!

Exactly. Although, I must say, I'm guilty of crashing Church picnics for the festivities and the food.. not that I'm not a Christian, but my church doesn't have all that swanky stuff the big-money churches have..

I'm pretty sure if Santa will bring Christimas to Iraqi's while simultaneously having jesus die to save him while also rescuing the boys from south park, that he'll give Athiests the benefit of the doubt.


Jesus died to purge Saddam's sins.




































oops

Luckily those holidays have become bastardised enough for me to celebrate them while completely ignoring any christian elements of them.

Come to think of it, I worked the entire easter weekend anyway.

Come to think of it, I worked the entire easter weekend anyway.

That's the cool thing about Greek Easter.. at least when it doesn't coincide with Western Easter.. they think they're sticking me with working the holiday, when in reality, they're not, and I can take leave when the real Easter comes around. Talk about a sweat deal. :p

That's the cool thing about Greek Easter.. at least when it doesn't coincide with Western Easter.. they think they're sticking me with working the holiday, when in reality, they're not, and I can take leave when the real Easter comes around. Talk about a sweat deal. :p

We have time and a half for public holidays, so working all of easter worked out quite nicely :)

Wait... if I don't believe in Jesus then Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny won't come?!? Damn.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
I dont celebrate christmass I celebrate winter break from collage

I could give a fuck less about the fictional jesus

Luckily those holidays have become bastardised enough for me to celebrate them while completely ignoring any christian elements of them.

Come to think of it, I worked the entire easter weekend anyway.
Agreed ... lets see where in the bible santa comes into play

I also worked easer and xmass the last 6 years

Yah so you are basically making it worse for Christians to speak the truth. Thanks for your brilliant idea.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

I don't celebrate christmas or easter. I do celebrate chinese new year however.

I could give a fuck less about the fictional jesus

Yeah, me neither.. it's the real one you have to look out for..

I'm pretty sure if Santa will bring Christimas to Iraqi's while simultaneously having jesus die to save him while also rescuing the boys from south park, that he'll give Athiests the benefit of the doubt.
Lol that one is getting added to my sig!

Yah so you are basically making it worse for Christians to speak the truth. Thanks for your brilliant idea.

Yes ... when, oh when, will Christians get a break?

Yeah, me neither.. it's the real one you have to look out for..
Why is he stalking me?

Why is he stalking me?

Yep. And He's got nightvision.. :eek:

Yep. And He's got nightvision.. :eek:
Thats ok I am bi ... and from the statues he is kind of cute

Yes ... when, oh when, will Christians get a break?

Sorry I must have shot the wrong way with my original statement, christians don't deserve a break.

Sorry I must have shot the wrong way with my original statement, christians don't deserve a break.

Yes ... you should have shot into the peanut gallery. ;)

Yes ... you should have shot into the peanut gallery. ;)
I'll bet he wasn't the only one shooting! There must have been a second shooter! T3H C0N5P1R4CY!!!

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Since we don't get to pick our own days for our own crap, I think it's perfectly fair we use yours. Most also have Christian relatives, who want their atheist family members with them during the Christian holidays.
Besides, you don't really believe we atheists follow your rituals & such, unless we have secular reasons for doing it?

I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, but I do enjoy having the days off. I'd enjoy them more if they fell during summer though.

As a Christian, I don't think there is anything wrong with people celebrating Christmas as we hijacked it from the Pagans anyway. Back when we used to destroy pagan temples and build churches there too. It used to be the Winter Solstice Celebration. Good Friday and Easter however are all ours. Also, Santa Claus is based on a Catholic Saint. The Easter Bunny is just a stupid piece of crap.

Since we don't get to pick our own days for our own crap, I think it's perfectly fair we use yours. Most also have Christian relatives, who want their atheist family members with them during the Christian holidays.
Besides, you don't really believe we atheists follow your rituals & such, unless we have secular reasons for doing it?



* hands Similized a cookie *

As a Christian, I don't think there is anything wrong with people celebrating Christmas as we hijacked it from the Pagans anyway. Back when we used to destroy pagan temples and build churches there too. It used to be the Winter Solstice Celebration. Good Friday and Easter however are all ours. Also, Santa Claus is based on a Catholic Saint. The Easter Bunny is just a stupid piece of crap.

You are correct about the Christmas most likely being a hijack of Yule (the winter Solstice).

That point of Easter, however, is also disputed. Easter is thought by many to stem from the pagan "Eostra" or "Ostara", the fertility festival that just happens to fall at approximately the same time and just happens to have things like eggs and rabbits (fertility symbols) as a central point.

So maybe you Christians should find your own holidays instead of just stealing others'.

(J/k, you can celebrate whenever you want; it's the thought that counts anyway. Just don't say stupid things like "non-Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas.)

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
OK, no skin off my nose
Don't celebrate christmas or easter anyways, and what other christian holidays are there?

Yeah, I'm not an atheist, but this sounds like sour grapes from someone who's just frustrated with atheists going out of their way to offend people, and/or expressing their own frustration with a Christian-dominated country. Either way, the answer isn't to try and ban anybody from anything. If a church wants to refuse atheists permission to marry there, that's fine. If it wants to let them, that's fine, too. The answer is to accept that people disagree on fundamental things and that, whether you agree or not, it's important to respect other peoples' decisions and not let disagreement turn to bitterness or discrimination.

As a Christian, I don't think there is anything wrong with people celebrating Christmas as we hijacked it from the Pagans anyway. Back when we used to destroy pagan temples and build churches there too. It used to be the Winter Solstice Celebration. Good Friday and Easter however are all ours. Also, Santa Claus is based on a Catholic Saint. The Easter Bunny is just a stupid piece of crap.
Origin of Santa Claus:
4th century: There are two main, incompatible belief systems about St. Nicholas:
Among Roman Catholics and conservative Protestants, there is a near universal belief that St. Nicholas of Bari once lived in Asia Minor, and died in either 345 or 352 CE. The Catholic Information Network speculates that he was probably born in Patara in the province of Myra in Asia Minor; this is apparently based on the belief that he later became bishop of Myra in Lycia (now Turkey). He is alleged to have attended the first council of Nicea; however, his name does not appear on lists of attending bishops. He is honored as a Patron Saint in Austria, Belgium, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Russia, Sicily, and Switzerland. 2 He is also considered the patron saint of children and sailors.

Many legends and miracles are attributed to him:
When he was an infant, his mother only nursed him on Wednesdays and Fridays; he fasted the remaining days.
He halted a storm at sea in order to save three drowning sailors.
During his lifetime, he adored children and often threw gifts anonymously into the windows of their homes.
His father left him a fortune which he used to help poor children.
He grabbed the sword of an executioner to save the life of a political prisoner.
He brought back to life several children who had been killed.

Most religious historians and experts in folklore believe that there is no valid evidence to indicate that St. Nicholas ever existed as a human. In fact, there are quite a few indicators that his life story was simply recycled from those of Pagan gods. Many other ancient Pagan gods and goddesses were similarly Christianized in the early centuries of the Church. His legends seems to have been mainly created out of myths attributed to the Greek God Poseidon, the Roman God Neptune, and the Teutonic God Hold Nickar. "In the popular imagination [of many Russians] he became the heir of Mikoula, the god of harvest, 'who will replace God, when God becomes too old.' " 8

When the church created the persona of St. Nicholas, they adopted Poseidon's title "the Sailor." They seem to have picked up his last name from Nickar. Various temples of Poseidon became shrines of St. Nicholas. 1 "In medieval England... in tiny sea ports we find the typical little chapel built on an eminence and looking out to sea." 8 St. Nicholas also adopted some of the qualities of "The Grandmother" or Befana from Italy. She was said to have filled children's stockings with gifts. Her shrine at Bari was also converted into a shrine to St. Nicholas.

The Christian church created a fictional life history for St. Nicholas. He was given the name Hagios Nikolaos (a.k.a. St. Nicholas of Myra).
10th century: The Christian author Metaphrastes collected and wrote many traditional legends about St. Nicholas.
11th century: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that during the Muslim invasion of Asia Minor, his remains were transferred to Bari in Italy, where he became known as Nicholas of Bari.
19th century: St. Nicholas was superseded in much of Europe by Christkindlein, the Christ child, who delivered gifts in secret to the children. He traveled with a dwarf-like helper called Pelznickel (a.k.a. Belsnickle) or with St. Nicholas-like figures. Eventually, all three were combined into the image that we now know as Santa Claus. "Christkindlein" became Kriss Kringle.

Before the communist revolution, large numbers of Russian Orthodox pilgrims came to Bari to visit St Nicholas' tomb. "He and St Andrew the apostle are the patrons of Russia."
Present day:
Throughout many countries in Europe, St. Nicholas/Santa distributes gifts to the children on DEC-5, the eve of his feast day. In some countries, the gifts come at another time during Advent or on Christmas eve.
In Germany, Weinachtsmann (Christmas man) is a helper of the Christkind (Christ Child)
In France, Père Noël distributes the gifts.
In Russia, under the influence of communism, St. Nicolas evolved into the secular Father Frost. He distributes toys to children on New Year's Eve. 3
In England, Father Christmas delivers the presents. He is shown with holly, ivy or mistletoe.
In Scandinavian countries, the ancient Pagan Yule goat has transmuted into Joulupukki - similar to the American Santa.
In North America, Santa Claus rules, thanks to a certain brand of soda.
According to Roman Catholic church, his body is said to have not decomposed. In his shrine in Bari, Italy, it is believed by many pilgrims to exude a sweet smelling odor which cures medical disorders and illnesses.

History of Santa in America:

Santa Claus can be traced back for four centuries in the U.S.:
1600's: The Puritans made it illegal to mention St. Nicolas' name. People were not allowed to exchange gifts, light a candle, or sing Christmas carols.
17th century: Dutch immigrants brought with them the legend of Sinter Klaas.
1773: Santa first appeared in the media as St. A Claus.
1804: The New York Historical Society was founded with St. Nicolas as its patron saint. Its members engaged in the Dutch practice of gift-giving at Christmas.
1809: Washington Irving, writing under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker, included Saint Nicolas in his book "A History of New York." Nicolas is described as riding into town on a horse.
1812: Irving, revised his book to include Nicolas riding over the trees in a wagon.
1821: William Gilley printed a poem about "Santeclaus" who was dressed in fur and drove a sleigh drawn by a single reindeer.
1822: Dentist Clement Clarke Moore is believed by many to have written a poem "An Account of a Visit from Saint Nicolas," which became better known as "The Night before Christmas." Santa is portrayed as an elf with a miniature sleigh equipped with eight reindeer which are named in the poem as Blitzem, Comet, Cupid, Dancer, Dasher, Donder, Prancer, and Vixen. Others attribute the poem to a contemporary, Henry Livingston, Jr. Two have since been renamed Donner and Blitzen.
1841: J.W. Parkinson, a Philadelphia merchant, hired a man to dress up in a "Criscringle" outfit and climb the chimney of his store.
1863: Illustrator Thomas Nast created images of Santa for the Christmas editions of Harper's Magazine. These continued through the 1890's.
1860s: President Abraham Lincoln asked Nast to create a drawing of Santa with some Union soldiers. This image of Santa supporting the enemy had a demoralizing influence on the Confederate army -- an early example of psychological warfare.
1897: Francis P Church, Editor of the New York Sun, wrote an editorial in response to a letter from an eight year-old girl, Virginia O'Hanlon. She had written the paper asking whether there really was a Santa Claus. It has become known as the "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" letter.
1920's: The image of Santa had been standardized to portray a bearded, over-weight, jolly man dressed in a red suit with white trim. 5
1931: Haddon Sundblom, illustrator for The Coca-Cola ™ company drew a series of Santa images in their Christmas advertisements until 1964. The company holds the trademark for the Coca-Cola Santa design. Christmas ads including Santa continue to the present day.
1939 Copywriter Robert L. May of the Montgomery Ward Company created a poem about Rudolph, the ninth reindeer. May had been "often taunted as a child for being shy, small and slight." He created an ostracized reindeer with a shiny red nose who became a hero one foggy Christmas eve. Santa was part-way through deliveries when the visibility started to degenerate. Santa added Rudolph to his team of reindeer to help illuminate the path. A copy of the poem was given free to Montgomery Ward customers.
1949: Johnny Marks wrote the song "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer." Rudolph was relocated to the North Pole where he was initially rejected by the other reindeer who wouldn't let him play in their reindeer games because of his strange looking nose. The song was recorded by Gene Autry and became his all-time best seller. Next to "White Christmas" it is the most popular song of all time.
1993: An urban folk tale began to circulate about a Japanese department store displaying a life-sized Santa Claus being crucified on a cross. It never happened.
1997: Artist Robert Cenedella drew a painting of a crucified Santa Claus. It was displayed in the window of the New York's Art Students League and received intense criticism from some religious groups. His drawing was a protest. He attempted to show how Santa Claus had replaced Jesus Christ as the most important personality at Christmas time.

References:

1. Barbara G. Walker, "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets." Harper & Row, (1983) Pages 725 to 726.
2. "St. Nicholas of Myra," The Catholic Encyclopedia, at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11063b.htm
3. "Father Frost," at: http://www.bobandbabs.com/
4. "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus," at: http://www.stormfax.com/virginia.htm
5. "The Claus that Refreshes," at: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.htm
6. "Rudolph," at: http://www.snopes.com/holidays/xmas/
7. "R Cendella Gallery - Theme: Commentary," at http://www.rcenedellagallery.com
8. "St. Nicholas of Bari (Fourth Century)," Catholic Information Network, at: http://www.cin.org/nichbari.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/santa1.htm

How about Christians give up on the hijacking of festivals from older faiths?

No more Christmas, no more Easter.

Don't like it? Don't celebrate pagan festivals if you aren't a pagan.

etc.

etc.

How about Christians give up on the hijacking of festivals from older faiths?

No more Christmas, no more Easter.

Don't like it? Don't celebrate pagan festivals if you aren't a pagan.

etc.

etc.
Ehn, they might be hijacked, but they're distinct holidays. This is as opposed to atheist celebration of some holidays, which the original post seems to view as "piggybacking" on established Christian holidays

Ehn, they might be hijacked, but they're distinct holidays. This is as opposed to atheist celebration of some holidays, which the original post seems to view as "piggybacking" on established Christian holidays
You do, of course, realise that atheists don't celebrate the Christian holiday of Christmas? That they generally just enjoy a few days off in the winter to spend with families, watch some cheesy movies on the TV, drink far too much, and usually in no way take any part in Chrstian celebrations?

If I could get days off from work to celebrate my own religious festivals then I'd take that instead. As it is I work with what I'm given.

You do, of course, realise that atheists don't celebrate the Christian holiday of Christmas? That they generally just enjoy a few days off in the winter to spend with families, watch some cheesy movies on the TV, drink far too much, and usually in no way take any part in Chrstian celebrations?
you know what i mean though don't you?

you know what i mean though don't you?
I refuse to either deny or confirm these allegations ;)

Nah, yea I know what you're saying. Doesn't mean i necessarily agree 100% though. :)

Of course, what you said could just as easily be applied to 1600 years ago, with "athiest" replacd with "Christian", and "Christian" with "pagan". If I've got that the right way round.

Christians, go to church, carol, give out cookies - I dont give a shit[as an Atheist]

Atheists and others, take time off work / or not , sit back and get pissed with your family, exchange presents.

But for the love of ...oh yah, just dont try to convert each other - it goes nowhere.

I refuse to either deny or confirm these allegations ;)

Nah, yea I know what you're saying. Doesn't mean i necessarily agree 100% though. :)

Of course, what you said could just as easily be applied to 1600 years ago, with "athiest" replacd with "Christian", and "Christian" with "pagan". If I've got that the right way round.
show me a time machine and then we'll get some results! :P

as if those hollidays really have a lot to do with religion anymore.

* hands Similized a cookie *

i' m making him a damn pie!

So you want atheists to stop celebrating Easter and Christmas, then?

Fine, so long as you stop celebrating the pagan festivals. The very name Easter comes from the Roman goddess Eostre, whose festival was held on the first Sunday after the full moon that occurs on or next after the vernal (spring) equinox (the autumnal equinox in the southern hemisphere). Funny how that's the same date as Easter.

Christmas was put rather coincidentally at the same time as the winter solstice, also a major pagan festival.

While we're at it, don't use wedding rings. No easter eggs. No Christmas trees. They're all pagan symbols.

What I'm trying to say is: if these festivals, symbols and traditions have outlasted 2000 years of Christianity, you really need to think about trying to deny them to non-Christians who are usually only a few generations from that religion. Don't use double standards.

[edit] Speaking as an atheist: I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. We have a family gathering on Christmas Day, completely separate from the Church. We also have a family gathering on Good Friday.
These gatherings are often held by many Australian families. It may have started out as a religious practice, but it has become part of our culture distinct from Christianity.

* hands Similized a cookie *

i' m making him a damn pie!

Good for you, and when you quote someone theres a button that will throw the text into [*quote] [/*quote] brackets, 4th from the right.


Seeeee :p

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

Funny... I don't know of any atheists who got married in church or by a pastor. Do you have any examples?

* hands Similized a cookie *

i' m making him a damn pie!
Hehe, cheers both of you :)

While we're at it, don't use wedding rings. No easter eggs. No Christmas trees. They're all pagan symbols.

I've got one more to add to that list... the cross... it was a religious symbol Before Christianity, in celtic mythology it represents the crossroads, that is to say it symbolises meetings and partings and stuff like that...

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Is it not true that the shops, cinemas etc are open in the USA on public holidays, including Christmas, Easter etc, anyway?

Some are, indeed.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Originally I forgot to ask: what makes you think my lack of faith has anything to do with Christianity? - If I just held some sort of grudge against Christians, wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect I subscribed to a different religion, instead of none?
And as others have pointed out, half your holidays aren't yours anyway. Even the concept of marriage isn't Christian, so by your logic, it's not only the wedding rings you have to drop, it's 90% of the Bible & everything else Christians consider theirs.

I wish you all a very merry Chistmas and a happy and glorious Passover!

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
They have been commrecialized and the public at large does not celebrate Christian Christmas but Commercial Christmas. If atheists were celebrating Good Friday, you would have a valid argument.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Well, considering that Christmas is as Christian as this Mk IV (http://wio.ru/tank/ww1t/mk4germ.jpg) is German...
Anyway, I know a couple atheists that don't celebrate those.

They have been commrecialized and the public at large does not celebrate Christian Christmas but Commercial Christmas. If atheists were celebrating Good Friday, you would have a valid argument.

Maybe people should just rename Commercial Christmas to like 'The Great Day of Gift Exchanging'.

...Heh, nah. That would take way too much effort to get everything changed over.

Really though, with the whole non-Christians not celebrating Christian holidays... well, maybe if we stopped having days off on those days, we'd stop celebrating on them, whether or not what we're celebrating has anything to do with Chrisitan celebrations. Mostly it's just the whole "Whoo! No school/work! Party!" type business.

I've got one more to add to that list... the cross... it was a religious symbol Before Christianity, in celtic mythology it represents the crossroads, that is to say it symbolises meetings and partings and stuff like that...

The Cross is a symbol to remember what Jesus did for you. He died on it for the sins of the world. You cannot say that Christians hijacked that from Pagans. Regardless of who used it before and for what. We chose the symbol because that is how Jesus was executed which is what we should remember.

By the way the only reason that Christianity took over Pagan holidays was to make it easier on the Pagans when we converted them.

The Cross is a symbol to remember what Jesus did for you. He died on it for the sins of the world. You cannot say that Christians hijacked that from Pagans. Regardless of who used it before and for what. We chose the symbol because that is how Jesus was executed which is what we should remember.

By the way the only reason that Christianity took over Pagan holidays was to make it easier on the Pagans when we converted them.

Huh... and now you're screaming bloody hell when businesses are using your holidays to convert you to spend more money on things nobody needs or wants in the first place? They are only trying to convert you, aren't they?

Huh... and now you're screaming bloody hell when businesses are using your holidays to convert you to spend more money on things nobody needs or wants in the first place? They are only trying to convert you, aren't they?

I am not the one who started this thread nor do I agree with the person who started this thread. If you had actually read my earlier posts you might have understood that.

I am not the one who started this thread nor do I agree with the person who started this thread. If you had actually read my earlier posts you might have understood that.

Sorry, but you were the one who stated that it was perfectly excusable to celebrate pagan holidays, as that had been used in the past to convert people... I just can't seem the follow that logic, somehow.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!


It seems to me that every religion has its own religious holidays, but why should believing in the supernatural entiltle someone to a holiday? Atheists shouldnt be punished for having the sense to realize that gods and pixies and unicorns and (sadly) santa dont exist.

Christmas is hardly a religious holiday anymore anyway, its just a family holiday. and easter is just a day when people get chocolate eggs.

If i cant have christmas because I dont believe in God, you can't have any presents because you don't believe in Santa.

Sorry, but you were the one who stated that it was perfectly excusable to celebrate pagan holidays, as that had been used in the past to convert people... I just can't seem the follow that logic, somehow.

I was just saying that they used to be Pagan holidays so us Christians have no right to monopolize them. Sorry If I was unclear or misleading.

Jesus has nothing to do with Christmas anymore.

Unless you sit in a drafty church and sing dreary hymnals on Christmas, Jesus doesnt have much to do with your christmases either.
Aside from a brief mention in some christmas songs, most people have very little involvent withj Jesus on thier holidays.

Christmas is about spending time with your family, and enjoying the company of loved ones.

Nothing more.

The gifts...merely ritual and formality.

Enjoying life, with the ones you love, is all any holiday is about.
Especially Christmas.
So, if Jesus has nothing to do with that...thats fine with me.
I dont need to follow some partially mythological street preacher to enjoy the company of my friends and family.

For those that do....

Dona Nobis Pacem.

As a Christian, I don't think there is anything wrong with people celebrating Christmas as we hijacked it from the Pagans anyway. Back when we used to destroy pagan temples and build churches there too. It used to be the Winter Solstice Celebration. Good Friday and Easter however are all ours. Also, Santa Claus is based on a Catholic Saint. The Easter Bunny is just a stupid piece of crap.
Do you want the good news, or the bad news...?
Easter isn't all yours at all. Easter comes from the Anglo-Saxon Eostre who was a goddess of fertility and Easter was named after her. It also, coincidentally of course, coincides with the celebrations of her giving, sorry.

Do you want the good news, or the bad news...?
Easter isn't all yours at all. Easter comes from the Anglo-Saxon Eostre who was a goddess of fertility and Easter was named after her. It also, coincidentally of course, coincides with the celebrations of her giving, sorry.

Yeah, I realized that later. But Good Friday is ours. Oh well.

Yeah, I realized that later. But Good Friday is ours. Oh well.
Well, 1 out of 3 ain't bad.;)

Christmas is the festival of gift-giving and commercialism.
Easter is the festival of chocolate and commercialism.
You assume I'd wish to be married in a church. Whoopsies.

Jesus has nothing to do with Christmas anymore.

Unless you sit in a drafty church and sing dreary hymnals on Christmas, Jesus doesnt have much to do with your christmases either.
Aside from a brief mention in some christmas songs, most people have very little involvent withj Jesus on thier holidays.

Christmas is about spending time with your family, and enjoying the company of loved ones.

Nothing more.

The gifts...merely ritual and formality.

Enjoying life, with the ones you love, is all any holiday is about.
Especially Christmas.
So, if Jesus has nothing to do with that...thats fine with me.
I dont need to follow some partially mythological street preacher to enjoy the company of my friends and family.

For those that do....

Dona Nobis Pacem.

Agreed its always been this way for me

I used to dread that manditory trip to the church ... I wanted more time at home with family and presents and food and Cheesy movies and all that fun stuff

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
I don't celebrate Christmas and I'd never set foot in a Church, let alone get married in one. And what exactly are these supposed 'benefits' of Christmas? If you do celebrate it, you have to spend huge amounts of money buying presents for a load of spoilt brats.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

And Christians are opposed to Paganism. Perhaps they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of pagan faiths, such as Christmas, Easter or any other Pagan holiday.

They also shouldn't be allowed to have decorated houses of worship. Or pray in public the way that Jesus said they shouldn't, but the Pagans did.

You want paganism out of your faith so badly, you can start there. :)

Oh, and athiests do just fine with marriage by a judge, city clerk, or other civic officials.

...and presumably christians shouldn't have the benefit of tuesdays, wednesdays, thursdays etc. as those are pagan gods days.

Maybe people should just rename Commercial Christmas to like 'The Great Day of Gift Exchanging'.

No, Christians should go back to calling it Christ-Mass. The rest of us can just start spelling it the way we say it. Krismus.

You know, right, that Christmas, Easter, and the like actually were pagan holidays and we just re-fit them so we could celebrate too?

anyway, I don't really care who celebrates what as long as I have the freedom to celebrate what I want to, and if I want that freedom, then I should extend it to others. ;)

The Cross is a symbol to remember what Jesus did for you. He died on it for the sins of the world. You cannot say that Christians hijacked that from Pagans. Regardless of who used it before and for what. We chose the symbol because that is how Jesus was executed which is what we should remember.

By the way the only reason that Christianity took over Pagan holidays was to make it easier on the Pagans when we converted them.


This by no means is ment to offend, but how would you like being remembered by the way you were killed? One would have to wonder if Jesus was killed in present day by oh, say a AK-47 whether the AK would be used as opposed to a cross? I am not sure about you, but I would be just alittle offended at that if that is what everyone remembers me by.

You know, right, that Christmas, Easter, and the like actually were pagan holidays and we just re-fit them so we could celebrate too?

anyway, I don't really care who celebrates what as long as I have the freedom to celebrate what I want to, and if I want that freedom, then I should extend it to others. ;)

Very well put!

As long as I get time off work and a chance to get pissed, I'm happy.

This by no means is ment to offend, but how would you like being remembered by the way you were killed? One would have to wonder if Jesus was killed in present day by oh, say a AK-47 whether the AK would be used as opposed to a cross? I am not sure about you, but I would be just alittle offended at that if that is what everyone remembers me by.
convenient, geometric, and easily embellished

it was good circumstances for everyone but Jesus

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

The way I acted last Christmas could hardly be a celebration of anything. Unless your messiah feels the ultimate showing of respect involves a bottle of vodka, regurgitation, a sun terrace and an innocent bystander covered in vomit.

Boy did I feel spiritually fulfilled the next morning :D

Nothing like a hangover on Christmas day..

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Personally I say take this one step further. All gov't offices are open 7/52. Not that all gov't employees work all those days. You still have the 40 a week limits. But since the Gov't isn't supposed to be religious related in any way then they don't need either Sabbath off (Sat by Jewish and 7th day Adventist tradition, Sun by other Christian traditions)

Personally I say take this one step further. All gov't offices are open 7/52. Not that all gov't employees work all those days. You still have the 40 a week limits. But since the Gov't isn't supposed to be religious related in any way then they don't need either Sabbath off (Sat by Jewish and 7th day Adventist tradition, Sun by other Christian traditions)
Fine by me I work weekends anyways

Personaly I would enjoy thursday and friday off more anyways

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Well, seeing as christmas and easter are both bastardized pagan holidays I celebrate in name only. (I have honestly been celebrating christmas as the winter solstice as far as I'm concerned, but I always wish people a happy (insert whatever they celebrate) and really only celebrate christmas by buying presents and having dinner with my family) I also have no intention of getting married in a church or in a religious ceremony.

But then I'm also agnostic.

[QUOTE=L-rouge]
Do you want the good news, or the bad news...?
Easter isn't all yours at all. Easter comes from the Anglo-Saxon Eostre who was a goddess of fertility and Easter was named after her. It also, coincidentally of course, coincides with the celebrations of her giving, sorry.Yeah, I realized that later. But Good Friday is ours. Oh well.

Actually all three holidays are purely the christians. Christmas being the celebration of the birth of Christ (although the birth is not neccessarily the 25th of Dec) Good Friday, being the rememberance the day that Christ died, and Easter being the rememberance of the day that Christ was ressurected.

However, the placement and the names were not always the same and were altered by the Vatican to aid in the conversion of non-Christians to Christianity. Same goes for the Christian Sabbath. Originally, Christians celebrated Saturday as the Sabbath, till one of the Popes had it changed to coincide with Easter (although I don't know whether the Easter label was applied first or the Sabbath was moved first)

Actualy I would like to do away with that sabbith thing thinking about it

It would be rather usefull to have normal busniess hours for things like stores and banks and other service sort of industries

Good idea

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

Like a lot of Atheists I know, Get drunk at Xmas, or work, we have so few Public holidays in the UK as it is, prefer to work though Overtime is fantastic.

Not Really into Chocolate so again tend to work, strange that most Christian go apeshit over christmas but sort of forget that it was easte that is really the major holiday of the faith.

Got married Legally in a registrary office by a civil cervant(No mention of God in the entire ceremony)

and why is there a big sunday trading argument. Random Deity on a Stick wha is wrong if this was the case we wouldn't open Thursday till monday.

no but if you do want to get rid of xmas and replace it with a Arrrgh it is too damn cold dark wet and shitty to go to work holiday I would celebrate that, however I do have a problem when people take advantage of all religious holidays on off people who take Eid off as religious observance and then xmas and easte as well.

Either give the holidays out equally without anyform of bias throughout te year or not at all.

[QUOTE=Bryce Crusader States]

Actually all three holidays are purely the christians. Christmas being the celebration of the birth of Christ (although the birth is not neccessarily the 25th of Dec) Good Friday, being the rememberance the day that Christ died, and Easter being the rememberance of the day that Christ was ressurected.

However, the placement and the names were not always the same and were altered by the Vatican to aid in the conversion of non-Christians to Christianity. Same goes for the Christian Sabbath. Originally, Christians celebrated Saturday as the Sabbath, till one of the Popes had it changed to coincide with Easter (although I don't know whether the Easter label was applied first or the Sabbath was moved first)

"One of the first facts that comes up in a study of the origins of Christmas deals with a festival called Saturnalia. Beginning on December 15th, the Romans held this seven-day celebration in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture. The winter solstice often fell around December 25 on the Julian calendar—following these seven days of feasting, revelry, and merrymaking. To commemorate the lengthening of days marked by this solstice, many Romans also enacted rituals that glorified Mithra, the god of light from ancient Persia. But Mithra was of older origins yet than the Romans, who had integrated him into their mythos...

...The Roman Catholic Church also had the habit of absorbing pagan traditions into Christendom, soon converting this holiday commemorating the birth of the sun god into Christ Mass, a ceremony honoring the birth of the Son of God, whose actual date of birth is uncertain. Despite this, according to the documentary “Christmas Unwrapped” hosted by Harry Smith on The History Channel, Christmastime celebrations before the 1800s among the commoners in England still featured much of the pagan revelry, at times little more than wild, licentious carousals. “Christmas Unwrapped” went on to describe how a peasant would be afforded his fifteen minutes of fame by being crowned the “lord of misrule” by his fellows, and they would go around as a miniature mob to the lords of the manors demanding to be let in and provided with treats, else they would threaten to cause harm, much like the origin of Halloween’s trick or treating. This drunken, post-pagan revelry, identified with Saturnalia and the Feast of Fools where master and slave traded places for a day, apparently had much to do with why Olivar Cromwell, devout Puritan and Lord Protector of England, outlawed the Christmas Holiday in the 17th century, forcing it underground for a time: until about 1656 in Canterbury."

source: http://rds.yahoo.com/;_ylt=AkaTVfoPCvepO0.4FrWML_9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTBwbW5jNGI0BGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDc3I-/SIG=11vjo9svg/EXP=1132168082/**http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrrena.com%2FChristmas.shtml

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday.

OK, whatever. As long as I get some holiday time somewhere it's all good with me. I usually work on those days anyway.

Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

OK, that's even less of a concern.

Fine. :)

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!I would honestly be delighted if these pointless 'celebrations' were taken out of the equation.

I especially despise Christmas, largely because of the never-ending commercial fuss. To me, that is the anti-thesis of the selflessness and righteousness that Christianity claims to espouse. Surely Christians partaking in your standard Christmas festivities are as hypocritical as the Atheists that do the same.

Even though my place of study/work is regrettably closed for at least some of these occasions, I always make a point of taking work home with me.

In terms of marriage, I can think of nothing more abhorrent than getting married in a church or by a minister (only a registry office would ever do for me). The only worse thing would be being forced to sprog a bloody baby afterward the religious ceremony, just because religion alleges it's the only right thing to do.

I would honestly be delighted if these pointless 'celebrations' were taken out of the equation.

I especially despise Christmas, largely because of the never-ending commercial fuss. To me, that is the anti-thesis of the selflessness and righteousness that Christianity claims to espouse. Surely Christians partaking in your standard Christmas festivities are as hypocritical as the Atheists that do the same.

Even though my place of study/work is regrettably closed for at least some of these occasions, I always make a point of taking work home with me.

In terms of marriage, I can think of nothing more abhorrent than getting married in a church or by a minister (only a registry office would ever do for me). The only worse thing would be being forced to sprog a bloody baby afterward the religious ceremony, just because religion alleges it's the only right thing to do.

Yaaaaaay childfree! Hi! :D

You know I was just thinking if Christians are in protest of evolution and science, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this study. Meaning, no televisions, cellphones or computers. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of driving around in automobiles.

They want science out of their lives so badly, well start there!

I would honestly be delighted if these pointless 'celebrations' were taken out of the equation.

I especially despise Christmas, largely because of the never-ending commercial fuss. To me, that is the anti-thesis of the selflessness and righteousness that Christianity claims to espouse. Surely Christians partaking in your standard Christmas festivities are as hypocritical as the Atheists that do the same.

Even though my place of study/work is regrettably closed for at least some of these occasions, I always make a point of taking work home with me.

In terms of marriage, I can think of nothing more abhorrent than getting married in a church or by a minister (only a registry office would ever do for me). The only worse thing would be being forced to sprog a bloody baby afterward the religious ceremony, just because religion alleges it's the only right thing to do.

I'm with you there! Except I don't like the idea of getting married in some stuffy registry office. Maybe a nice garden somewhere.

I've made the decision that celebrating Christian holidays for an agnostic like myself is hypocrisy. So, no Christmas, no Easter, nothing of the sort. For those who want to make the argument that the Christians stole them from Paganism, well, it'd be equally hypocritical to celebrate a Pagan holiday. So I don't do either.

I'm with you there! Except I don't like the idea of getting married in some stuffy registry office. Maybe a nice garden somewhere.

I've made the decision that celebrating Christian holidays for an agnostic like myself is hypocrisy. So, no Christmas, no Easter, nothing of the sort. For those who want to make the argument that the Christians stole them from Paganism, well, it'd be equally hypocritical to celebrate a Pagan holiday. So I don't do either.

Agnosticism: "Also used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion." -Wilkipedia

Well, I need some convincing so I think I should try every holiday there is.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

Just FYI...Christmas has become so comercialized you can no longer call it a religious holiday...

It's less about Christ and more about how much crap you can stuff into ones stockings...my record is currently 6 pounds!

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Those holidays are not exclusive to Christians, and they probably don't get married in a church.

Personally I say take this one step further. All gov't offices are open 7/52. Not that all gov't employees work all those days. You still have the 40 a week limits. But since the Gov't isn't supposed to be religious related in any way then they don't need either Sabbath off (Sat by Jewish and 7th day Adventist tradition, Sun by other Christian traditions)
They do, however, need regulated work hours. The 40 hour work week is for practical health reasons, not religious ones.

All work and no play makes Jack a strain on the Health Care system.

You know I was just thinking if Christians are in protest of evolution and science, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this study. Meaning, no televisions, cellphones or computers. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of driving around in automobiles.

They want science out of their lives so badly, well start there!

Don't forget medicine. All christians should direct themselves to the nearest apostle for cures.

You know I was just thinking if Christians are in protest of evolution and science, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this study. Meaning, no televisions, cellphones or computers. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of driving around in automobiles.

They want science out of their lives so badly, well start there!
how are those related to evolution?

Those holidays are not exclusive to Christians, and they probably don't get married in a church.
er Christmas...sorry CHRISTmas pretty much is a Christian thing- you know the day when that guy we call the son of God was born? oh and easter? its pretty imperative to our faith- thats when we believe he rose from the dead...i dont know to many other faiths who believe this...

As a Christian, I don't think there is anything wrong with people celebrating Christmas as we hijacked it from the Pagans anyway. Back when we used to destroy pagan temples and build churches there too. It used to be the Winter Solstice Celebration. Good Friday and Easter however are all ours. Also, Santa Claus is based on a Catholic Saint. The Easter Bunny is just a stupid piece of crap.

I don't know about good friday but easter is also a rip off of the pagans

I don't know about good friday but easter is also a rip off of the pagans
hey pagans believe Jesus died and rose again? woah

er Christmas...sorry CHRISTmas pretty much is a Christian thing- you know the day when that guy we call the son of God was born? oh and easter? its pretty imperative to our faith- thats when we believe he rose from the dead...i dont know to many other faiths who believe this...

So much to learn...

How about christians ripping off the dying/reborn pagan god? You know, the whole wheel of the year thing.

er Christmas...sorry CHRISTmas pretty much is a Christian thing- you know the day when that guy we call the son of God was born? oh and easter? its pretty imperative to our faith- thats when we believe he rose from the dead...i dont know to many other faiths who believe this...
Yeah because we all know that santa clause is in the bible:rolleyes:

And you know that there easterbunny is faled like no other

What book chapter and verse is that there silly bunny in again?

How about christians ripping off the dying/reborn pagan god? You know, the whole wheel of the year thing.
Fuck they even stole egyptian virgin birth legand

Fuck they even stole egyptian virgin birth legand

Do they have any original beliefs?

How about christians ripping off the dying/reborn pagan god? You know, the whole wheel of the year thing.

in what way have we ripped them off? whos to say they didnt rip us off? it was not just christians who said that Jesus rose again-there was a well respected athiest philosopher dude who also saw Christ after he had died-an athiest isnt likely to back up the case for Christ is he?

in what way have we ripped them off? whos to say they didnt rip us off? it was not just christians who said that Jesus rose again-there was a well respected athiest philosopher dude who also saw Christ after he had died-an athiest isnt likely to back up the case for Christ is he?
they didn't rip us off.

Yeah because we all know that santa clause is in the bible:rolleyes:

And you know that there easterbunny is faled like no other

What book chapter and verse is that there silly bunny in again?

....santa and bunny=commercialism to integrate the rest of society into a Christian religious day ie sod all to do with Christianity

in what way have we ripped them off? whos to say they didnt rip us off? it was not just christians who said that Jesus rose again-there was a well respected athiest philosopher dude who also saw Christ after he had died-an athiest isnt likely to back up the case for Christ is he?

They didn't rip you off because their belief is older. Like, waaaay older. Thousands of years older. Because their belief is based on the Earth's cycle, which has been around a hell of a lot longer than your incarnated god.

....santa and bunny=commercialism to integrate the rest of society into a Christian religious day ie sod all to do with Christianity
That or pegan rituals that christians adapted

... you know you really should spend some time and go back through this thread there is a wealth of information even on page one and two that would enlighten you more

in what way have we ripped them off? whos to say they didnt rip us off?
There's this thing called 'chronology'...

....santa and bunny=commercialism to integrate the rest of society into a Christian religious day ie sod all to do with Christianity
no, the easter bunny and the easter eggs are left over from the pagan springtime holiday that we hijacked

Santa,on the otherhand, started out okay, but has been highly commercialized.

....santa and bunny=commercialism to integrate the rest of society into a Christian religious day ie sod all to do with Christianity

Somebody needs to study the origins of his religion... Santa and bunny came from paganism (although I'm not so sure about Santa, somebody else posted about it earlier, but I didn't pay much attention), as did the big decorated tree, the eggs, the dates for these holidays (Yule and *gasp* Ostara, which is the word you got "easter" from). Your religion is the frankenstein of religions, and it doesn't have one original piece in it.

Somebody needs to study the origins of his religion... Santa and bunny came from paganism (although I'm not so sure about Santa, somebody else posted about it earlier, but I didn't pay much attention), as did the big decorated tree, the eggs, the dates for these holidays (Yule and *gasp* Ostara, which is the word you got "easter" from). Your religion is the frankenstein of religions, and it doesn't have one original piece in it.

his religion? gutted i feel so male now :(
um santa and bunny may well come from paganism but i dont really care since i believe in neither and neither hav anything to do with my faith. dead sea scrolls date back and match up with our current bible, we beleive in a God who has been here since the beginning of time, our religion started when man was created, so its pretty old i would say. the date for Christmas was because whne Christ was finally recognised they already had their winter festival which they didnt want to give up so it replaced it-we didnt steal it it was just convienient at the time-but im sure no matter whne theyd placed it people would find something to compare it to
anyway im goin to my bed. good night

About Santa:

The modern Santa Claus is a composite character made up from the merging of two quite separate figures:

The first of these is Saint Nicholas of Myra, a 4th century bishop of Myra in Lycia, a province of Byzantine Anatolia that is now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they wouldn't have to become prostitutes. (...)

The second character is Father Christmas, which remains the British name for Santa Claus. Father Christmas dates back at least as far as the 17th century in Britain, and pictures of him survive from that era, portraying him as a well-nourished bearded man dressed in a long, green, fur-lined robe. He typified the spirit of good cheer at Christmas, and was reflected in the "Spirit of Christmas Present" in Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol.

Some elements of this part of the tradition of Father Christmas could be traced back to the Germanic god Wodan (Odin). The appearance is similar to some portrayals of this god, who brought gifts in the winter season of Yule, and rides a flying horse through the sky. (The horse, Sleipnir, has eight legs, corresponding to Santa's eight reindeer.)

his religion? gutted i feel so male now :(
um santa and bunny may well come from paganism but i dont really care since i believe in neither and neither hav anything to do with my faith. dead sea scrolls date back and match up with our current bible, we beleive in a God who has been here since the beginning of time, our religion started when man was created, so its pretty old i would say. anyway im goin to my bed. good night

I meant the real historic origin, not the one your holy book says it is. Nighty night.

his religion? gutted i feel so male now :(
um santa and bunny may well come from paganism but i dont really care since i believe in neither and neither hav anything to do with my faith. dead sea scrolls date back and match up with our current bible, we beleive in a God who has been here since the beginning of time, our religion started when man was created, so its pretty old i would say. the date for Christmas was because whne Christ was finally recognised they already had their winter festival which they didnt want to give up so it replaced it-we didnt steal it it was just convienient at the time-but im sure no matter whne theyd placed it people would find something to compare it to
anyway im goin to my bed. good night
Wow amazing how you pull the wool over your own eyes

One of the reasons I could not be of the christian faith (at least from what I see from a lot ... not all of them)
Too easy to ignore the world instead of examining it

Wow amazing how you pull the wool over your own eyes

One of the reasons I could not be of the christian faith (at least from what I see from a lot ... not all of them)
Too easy to ignore the world instead of examining it

World? What world?

er Christmas...sorry CHRISTmas pretty much is a Christian thing- you know the day when that guy we call the son of God was born? oh and easter? its pretty imperative to our faith- thats when we believe he rose from the dead...i dont know to many other faiths who believe this...
Christmas is around the winter solstice, when the days begin to get longer and this was celebrated by various religions since before christianity was even conceived.
Easter was originally a celebration of the vernal equinox, again celebrated by countless cultures worldwide before the hebrews stopped being polytheists.

in what way have we ripped them off? whos to say they didnt rip us off?
Umm... well, the egyptians had Horus a coupel thousand years before the hebrews had Jesus. The persians had Mithras at least 500 years beforehand, the Greeks had a god who did that too... et c.

[quoteit was not just christians who said that Jesus rose again-there was a well respected athiest philosopher dude who also saw Christ after he had died-an athiest isnt likely to back up the case for Christ is he?[/QUOTE]
I call this a huge heaping pile of bullshit right here. Nobody outside the bible claimed to actually have witnessed Jesus, hell, the authors of the bible weren't even contemporaries.

Someone should invent a secular holiday for the winter. Maybe a whole set of holidays that are religion and nationality independent.

Personally I say take this one step further. All gov't offices are open 7/52. Not that all gov't employees work all those days. You still have the 40 a week limits. But since the Gov't isn't supposed to be religious related in any way then they don't need either Sabbath off (Sat by Jewish and 7th day Adventist tradition, Sun by other Christian traditions)

They do, however, need regulated work hours. The 40 hour work week is for practical health reasons, not religious ones.

All work and no play makes Jack a strain on the Health Care system.

Yeah...said it right there

[QUOTEYou know I was just thinking if Christians are in protest of evolution and science, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this study. Meaning, no televisions, cellphones or computers. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of driving around in automobiles.

They want science out of their lives so badly, well start there![/QUOTE]
Hey now....only those actually protesting it. A vast majority of us Christians aren't doing all this....don't make your judgements by the vocal minority.

Ostara, which is the word you got "easter" from
This is the second word, and a diffrent one at that in this thread which is a supposed origan of the word Easter. Rather suspicious to me.

This is the second word, and a diffrent one at that in this thread which is a supposed origan of the word Easter. Rather suspicious to me.
There are two goddesses with similar names and similarly named festivals held around the same time of year.

You know I was just thinking if Christians are in protest of evolution and science, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this study. Meaning, no televisions, cellphones or computers. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of driving around in automobiles.

They want science out of their lives so badly, well start there!

since when were we in protest to science? ever heard of christians in science? its a bunch of christian scientists funnily enough. wse have nothing against science, it is when science becomes immoral we complain. and sure i disagree with evolution-what of it? you're allowed your belief im allowed mine? or wait i forgot that generally doesnt apply to Christians does it? its too much fun to shoot us down with unwinnable arguements you claim make you right

There are two goddesses with similar names and similarly named festivals held around the same time of year.

how convienient

and sure i disagree with evolution-what of it? you're allowed your belief im allowed mine? or wait i forgot that generally doesnt apply to Christians does it? its too much fun to shoot us down with unwinnable arguements you claim make you right

Well, disagreeing with evolution would then disqualify you of all medical treatment that was discovered by applying the principles of the evolution theory, right?
Like a vaccine for bird flu..

since when were we in protest to science? ever heard of christians in science? its a bunch of christian scientists funnily enough. wse have nothing against science, it is when science becomes immoral we complain. and sure i disagree with evolution-what of it? you're allowed your belief im allowed mine? or wait i forgot that generally doesnt apply to Christians does it? its too much fun to shoot us down with unwinnable arguements you claim make you right
How can science be imoral? it is just a process

Unless you did not know that

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday.
No problem - we'll celebrate the Winter Solstice, Spring Equinox, Summer Solstice, New Year etc instead!

Christians did not invent the mid-winter holiday. They hijacked existing pagan holidays and put a Christian gloss on them, partly because they couldn't actually stop people celebrating altogether.

Much of the symbolism of Christmas - holly, mistletoe, gifts, Father Christmas, yule logs etc etc - are Pagan in origin.

Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
I doubt that many Atheists would want to be married in a church. I certainly wouldn't see it as a priviledge. There are alternatives, including Humanist ceremonies, for example. In the UK, nearly 70% of weddings are non-religious. Since about 72% of British people claim to be Christian, it seems that even many Christians don't want the dubious "priviledge" of being married in church!

Easter being the rememberance of the day that Christ was ressurected.Which is why we celebrate it by hiding, finding and eating eggs.

how convienientRelated peoples tend to have related gods/goddesses. It's similar to how Odin=Wodan. Same god, different dialect/language. And of course also similar to how sinterklaas=santa claus

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

I don't do Christmas. I tell you what, the amount of money it saves me is awesome. To be honest, I was always under the impression that Christmas was just a rebranded pagan holiday -- it's not even on the right date. But whatever. I've never done Easter, either. Both of these 'holidays' are meaningless to me, aside from the fact that they sometimes put decent movies on the box. I'm working this Christmas, for instance -- hey, the press never stops, so they need someone working there.

Besides, I would absolutely love to hear how you intend to police said restrictions. Short of needing some kind of Christian Identity Card whenever you buy a Christmas tree (the Christmas tree having been invented in the 19th century, BTW) there is no way of doing so. Thus, I simply must assume that you are trolling. It might have worked too, had you not been ignorant of what atheists actually do.

Yaaaaaay childfree! Hi! :DHi! ;) Good to know I am not alone :) It often feels lonely in this kid-centric world :p

I'm with you there! Except I don't like the idea of getting married in some stuffy registry office. Maybe a nice garden somewhere.You have a point. When I said 'registry office only' I should have perhaps qualified that a bit - civil ceremony only, without the faintest reference to religion :) Actually, I think that civil ceremonies here are expressly forbidden from mentioning things with Christian connotations (eg. angels and other such shit), which suits me just fine ;)

er Christmas...sorry CHRISTmas pretty much is a Christian thing- you know the day when that guy we call the son of God was born? oh and easter? its pretty imperative to our faith- thats when we believe he rose from the dead...i dont know to many other faiths who believe this...
Yes, the holiday was named for Christ, but the 'holy day' itself is not exclusive to Christians. Other religions have the same day as holiday. The timing of Pagan holidays was always in accordance with the lunar cycle (e.g. first full moon after the equinox or solstice).

Christmas-time was, in some parts, the celebration of winter solistice, when the virgin Sun makes her 3-day trek through the underworld, and Easter-time was the celebration of the spring equinox (http://www.religioustolerance.org/spring_equinox.htm), the time when the Mother Earth journies into the underworld for 3 days. Both goddesses go to rescue their lover-child and give him rebirth in the world. The Sun gives birth to the Earth, and the Earth to the Son. That's why Christmas-time gives birth to a new year, and spring-time is the time of new babies.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

Well, in fairness, those holidays you mentioned aren't actually originally Christian anyway. December 25th was originally a festival of the birth of Mithras (if I recall correctly, it's thought that Jesus may have been born some time in June, though I'm doubtful as to how well-founded that theory is). Easter, similarly, was originally the festival of the goddess Eostre, a goddess of fertility and rebirth (which is why you've got the easter eggs and bunnies and stuff, all of which are entirely non-Christian in their origin).

All the Christian holidays were originally stolen from the Pagans. Should it be a surprise, then, that the secularists are now trying to steal them for their own use?

How can science be imoral? it is just a process

Unless you did not know that

science becomes immoral when we start messing with cells, ie cloning etc-when we start playing god

evolution- i believe that God made the world, this chick was never a monkey as far as im concerned however i do see that things can and do evolve, i just dont think thats where the human race came from. of course things evolve, its a natural process, i just dont take it as far as creation. neither evolution or an omnipotent being have been proven- someones right and someones wrong- or mibbe we're both wrong- or mibbe both right- God is there and was the catilyst- we'll find out when we die i guess.

Well, in fairness, those holidays you mentioned aren't actually originally Christian anyway. December 25th was originally a festival of the birth of Mithras (if I recall correctly, it's thought that Jesus may have been born some time in June, though I'm doubtful as to how well-founded that theory is). Easter, similarly, was originally the festival of the goddess Eostre, a goddess of fertility and rebirth (which is why you've got the easter eggs and bunnies and stuff, all of which are entirely non-Christian in their origin).

All the Christian holidays were originally stolen from the Pagans. Should it be a surprise, then, that the secularists are now trying to steal them for their own use?

yes the placing was because of pagan festivals but not the reason behind it. anyway surely athiests shudnt take part in pagan festivals either? more to the point who actually cares? we can all celebrate what we want at Christmas, Christians can be happy about Christ and everyone else can celebrate trees and santa for all i care.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmpagan.

How many fucking times have people said over and over again the exact same thing about these holidays taking inspiration from Pagan ones?

If the people against whom you're arguing cannot read and comprehend these words, there is no point in repeating them.

If the people against whom you're arguing can read and comprehend these words, there is no point in repeating them.

Ridiculous.

How many fucking times have people said over and over again the exact same thing about these holidays taking inspiration from Pagan ones?

If the people against whom you're arguing cannot read and comprehend these words, there is no point in repeating them.

If the people against whom you're arguing can read and comprehend these words, there is no point in repeating them.

Ridiculous.
Ricockulous.

How many fucking times have people said over and over again the exact same thing about these holidays taking inspiration from Pagan ones?

If the people against whom you're arguing cannot read and comprehend these words, there is no point in repeating them.

If the people against whom you're arguing can read and comprehend these words, there is no point in repeating them.

Ridiculous.

amen

PINZERINO! Exactly.

Every time a major holiday comes up, some lugnut pseudo-Christian demands that atheists not celebrate it. Does that mean Christians don't get to celebrate secular holidays? Hallowe'en for example, or Independence Day? This is merely an empty and useless attempt at childish bitchiness. You wouldn't want the tables turned, so why would you bring this up except for trolling purposes?

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

and if christians are in so much of a protest with "pagan" faiths, then they shouldn't get anything from pagan traditions.

christmas was once banned by the catholic church for being too pagan
easter is based off a fertility festival
most other 'christian' holidays are just renamed 'pagan' ones.

a pastor has the right to turn away anyone that they feel shouldn't get married, so atheists don't really have that universal right, nor does anyone really.

---

now, to state my opinion on the matter

nearly every holiday time has many different faiths celebrating during the same time period, so I think they should just set aside a few days out of every season, and label them, Spring Holidays, Winter Holidays, Fall Holidays and Summer Holidays. Religious people can call it what ever they want. and atheists can call them a vacation from work. Each finding their own meaning to a break, and each not being forced to be one way or another.

we are a species of copying one another, and instead of acknowledging that, people are like, well we had it first, so we are better. bah, the monkeys had it first.

PINZERINO! Exactly.

Every time a major holiday comes up, some lugnut pseudo-Christian demands that atheists not celebrate it. Does that mean Christians don't get to celebrate secular holidays? Hallowe'en for example, or Independence Day? This is merely an empty and useless attempt at childish bitchiness. You wouldn't want the tables turned, so why would you bring this up except for trolling purposes?

to be fair im scottish and dont celebrate independance day (altho is it not a national holiday as opposed to secular? i dunno, i dont understand lol) and never celebrated halloween as a wee kid (dad said it was a pagan festival :p and i wasnt allowed) so now i have ammo next time he says that and celebrates Christmas. this kind of thread gets everyones backs up and none of us can really prove ourselves as right so lets all go back to our unashamed commercialism, Christian or not (thats all it is to us now too, come on, presents with an extra church service thrown in) its sad this is what its come to but it doesnt mean we need to be hypocrites too. so guys enjoy Christmas whatever your faith or not faith, i know ill be in church cus thats what i believe but christmas means different things to different people.

and remember the song 'and theyll know we are christians by our love'
as opposed to 'and theyll know we are christians cus we find it incredibly easy to piss them off'

peace guys lol
lx

and if christians are in so much of a protest with "pagan" faiths, then they shouldn't get anything from pagan traditions.

christmas was once banned by the catholic church for being too pagan
easter is based off a fertility festival
most other 'christian' holidays are just renamed 'pagan' ones.

Play it again, Sam.

I dont celebrate christmass I celebrate winter break from collage

I could give a fuck less about the fictional jesus
Amen to that.

Amen to that.
Amen to needlessly insulting the deeply-held beliefs of billions? I hope you don't see any fundamental difference between yourselves and your 'oppressors.' :/

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!
Right.
And Christians should refuse to encounter any art, literature or innovations by atheists or heretics. If you're a baptist, that's all of it.

Right.
And Christians should refuse to encounter any art, literature or innovations by atheists or heretics. If you're a baptist, that's all of it.
what? thats not even a valid arguement for goodness sake! take the point and leave it, im sure he wished hed never brought it up

what? thats not even a valid arguement for goodness sake! take the point and leave it, im sure he wished hed never brought it up
I'm afraid it is.
He's using a computer to argue this, for heaven's sake.

If you make this thread into a chart of statements and replies, it's pretty much a big bubble for the OP and a ton of replies branching off of it. I'm not seeing any discussion here, just people quoting the OP and saying that christians shouldn't be allowed to do this or that either. I think this topic is as good as dead, since nothing new is coming out of it. :/

I'm afraid it is.
He's using a computer to argue this, for heaven's sake.
What's wrong with that? The OP never suggested that atheists shouldn't use things developed by Christians, so it just doesn't hold that the opposite is a valid counterpoint.

If you're a baptist, that's all of it.
you know, I am kinda getting tired of your anti-baptist posts. I have asked you many times what your problem with baptists is, but you don't reply.

you know, I am kinda getting tired of your anti-baptist posts. I have asked you many times what your problem with baptists is, but you don't reply.
I can tell you right now with 90% certainty. It's because the word "Baptist" means "Southern Baptist" to Cahnt, and Southern Baptists are from the South and therefore stupid. :/

Well, considering the fact that almost every christian holiday was stolen from the pagans, i think your whole argument is ****ed. Not that you have the right to tell other people what they can and can't do anyway (You know, that whole freedom thing can be really annoying sometimes)

I can tell you right now with 90% certainty. It's because the word "Baptist" means "Southern Baptist" to Cahnt, and Southern Baptists are from the South and therefore stupid. :/
oh, then I am even more offended as a Southern Baptist from the south.

people may not agree with me on here but I doubt if you find any who debate with me regularly who would say I was dumb. ;)

and remember the song 'and theyll know we are christians by our love'
as opposed to 'and theyll know we are christians cus we find it incredibly easy to piss them off'

Good point.

You know I was just thinking if Atheists are in protest of Christianity, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this faith. Meaning, no christmas, easter or other Christian Holiday. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of being married in a church or by a pastor. They want christianity out of their lives so badly, well start there!

Christians stole their holidays from European pagans and I have no intentions of getting married in a church or by a pastor.

Christians stole their holidays from European pagans and I have no intentions of getting married in a church or by a pastor.
good job repeating what everybody else has already said

did you even read ANY of the thread?

It seems to me that every religion has its own religious holidays, but why should believing in the supernatural entiltle someone to a holiday? Atheists shouldnt be punished for having the sense to realize that gods and pixies and unicorns and (sadly) santa dont exist.

Christmas is hardly a religious holiday anymore anyway, its just a family holiday. and easter is just a day when people get chocolate eggs.

If i cant have christmas because I dont believe in God, you can't have any presents because you don't believe in Santa.
lol


Hey... I can't have any presents? :( :mad: :(

Do they have any original beliefs?
Nope, just new names for old beliefs

You know I was just thinking if Christians are in protest of evolution and science, then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the benifits of this study. Meaning, no televisions, cellphones or computers. Also they shouldn't be able to have the privilage of driving around in automobiles.

They want science out of their lives so badly, well start there!Hey now....only those actually protesting it. A vast majority of us Christians aren't doing all this....don't make your judgements by the vocal minority.

That's fair

science becomes immoral when we start messing with cells, ie cloning etc-when we start playing god
Since yourt god is supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful, cloning must be alright with him since he has allowed it.

evolution- i believe that God made the world, this chick was never a monkey <snip>
The thoery of evolution does not state that you were ever a monkey ;)

oh, then I am even more offended as a Southern Baptist from the south.

people may not agree with me on here but I doubt if you find any who debate with me regularly who would say I was dumb. ;)
True, I have never agreed with Smunkee in a religious discussion (at least not that I remember anyways), but wouldn't say s/he is dumb; possibly misinformed :D

Amazing how the Christians have to take it so hard from everyone. It never ceases to dumbfound me that while we are the majority, we are so tolerant and caring that we allow ourselves to be persecuted against in our own country. I just wish that some people who may not believe the things i do could realize that.

PINZERINO! Exactly.

Every time a major holiday comes up, some lugnut pseudo-Christian demands that atheists not celebrate it. Does that mean Christians don't get to celebrate secular holidays? Hallowe'en for example, or Independence Day? This is merely an empty and useless attempt at childish bitchiness. You wouldn't want the tables turned, so why would you bring this up except for trolling purposes?

Your right about the demand that people do or do not celebrate certain holidays is absurd and obnoxious. A little known fact, though, is that Halloween is in a religious holiday. Or at least it started as one, but like all the other holidays its become secular. Its even in the name: Hallow, meaning holy, e'en, or Eve or evening, just like Christmas Eve. Its the night before All Saints Day.

Everyone should celebrate/observe whatever they want. And while its true that some of the symbols and dates of Christian holidays have been hijacked, they do have religious significance to people of those faiths.

Someone said that the government shouldnt have weekend off, because it isnt supposed to be religious. Thats almost as ridiculous as saying atheists shouldn't be able to celebrate whatever holidays they want. Economically speaking, its absurd, given that you only want a 40 hour work week. That means hiring an extra person. More importantly, the Constitution states that the government shall not establish a religiong nor prohibit the free exercise thereof forcing people to work on their holy days certainly prohibits the free exercise thereof.

good job repeating what everybody else has already said

did you even read ANY of the thread?

Not on your life.

Actually, after posting I quickly realized that I in fact hadn't bothered refreshing on it from four hours ago.

PINZERINO! Exactly.

Every time a major holiday comes up, some lugnut pseudo-Christian demands that atheists not celebrate it. Does that mean Christians don't get to celebrate secular holidays? Hallowe'en for example, or Independence Day? This is merely an empty and useless attempt at childish bitchiness. You wouldn't want the tables turned, so why would you bring this up except for trolling purposes?Actually, Halloween is just as Christian as Christmas. Both stem from pagan holidays and were adopted by the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, All Hallows' Eve is still celebrated by the catholics in Bavaria, 'cept on the day after and gets called All Hallows.

Amazing how the Christians have to take it so hard from everyone. It never ceases to dumbfound me that while we are the majority, we are so tolerant and caring that we allow ourselves to be persecuted against in our own country. I just wish that some people who may not believe the things i do could realize that.

What - you actually live in the Vatican??? But then, when did the Vatican start persecuting Christians?

What - you actually live in the Vatican??? But then, when did the Vatican start persecuting Christians?
:p roflmao :D

True, I have never agreed with Smunkee in a religious discussion (at least not that I remember anyways), but wouldn't say s/he is dumb; possibly misinformed :D
good thing you added possibly ;)

anyway I am trying to rectify the situation.