NationStates Jolt Archive

The US doesn't care about anything. As notorius breakers of international law why should they. In 1986 the UN Security Council tried to pass a motion to force states to abide by int'l Law the US vetoed it. The US has broken Int'l Law on many occasions icluding 1986 in Nicaragua; mid 80s in Panama and most recently in the softwood lumber debate with Canada where they refused, TWICE, to accept an international tribunal's decision which is in favour of Canada.
The USA is iteself a terrorist state but just calls it humanitarian aid or some other such nonsense when they do something. Just recently five (give or take) US Senators voted against a bill to outlaw torture of foreign prisoners. I know Amercians are prone to violence but do you think your country could start joining the evolution of man kind and at least respect laws of the world even if it hurts themselves.

When you turn in Chretien for bombing without UN permission in advance, we'll call you.

Another US bashing flame thread. How original.:rolleyes:

*Gets popcorn*

http://67.15.181.134/4555/79/emo/popcorn2.gif

The US doesn't care about anything. As notorius breakers of international law why should they. In 1986 the UN Security Council tried to pass a motion to force states to abide by int'l Law the US vetoed it. The US has broken Int'l Law on many occasions icluding 1986 in Nicaragua; mid 80s in Panama and most recently in the softwood lumber debate with Canada where they refused, TWICE, to accept an international tribunal's decision which is in favour of Canada.
International Law only applies to countries that can't stand up for themselves. (I mean that as an observation, not as a recommendation.)

The US doesn't care about anything. As notorius breakers of international law why should they. In 1986 the UN Security Council tried to pass a motion to force states to abide by int'l Law the US vetoed it. The US has broken Int'l Law on many occasions icluding 1986 in Nicaragua; mid 80s in Panama and most recently in the softwood lumber debate with Canada where they refused, TWICE, to accept an international tribunal's decision which is in favour of Canada.
The USA is iteself a terrorist state but just calls it humanitarian aid or some other such nonsense when they do something. Just recently five (give or take) US Senators voted against a bill to outlaw torture of foreign prisoners. I know Amercians are prone to violence but do you think your country could start joining the evolution of man kind and at least respect laws of the world even if it hurts themselves.

Then again...Canada will tell an 80 year old cancer patient that they won't get treatment although the treatment might help. It just isn't in the budget of the Socialized medicine program. So you Mr or Mrs 80 year-old have to die. But there is money here for Miss 20 year olds plastic surgery.

Yea...those Canadians have their priorities straight.

Then again...Canada will tell an 80 year old cancer patient that they won't get treatment although the treatment might help. It just isn't in the budget of the Socialized medicine program. So you Mr or Mrs 80 year-old have to die. But there is money here for Miss 20 year olds plastic surgery.

Yea...those Canadians have their priorities straight.

My aunt lives in Toronto, and they told her (she had pancreatic cancer) that she would have to wait 18 months because there weren't any surgeons currently available in all of Canada who could handle that kind of surgery (she was told most of the good ones leave Canada and move to the US). Yes, there are surgeons, but there's a big line of patients. So busy that you have to wait more than a year. She was also told that without the surgery, she would be dead within six months.

So essentially, they told her to die.

We brought her down to the US and got the surgery a few days later. She's fine now. But no thanks to the Canadian system of health care. You can thank Kaiser Permanente.

When you turn in Chretien for bombing without UN permission in advance, we'll call you.
And this was when????? I think it was the US who bombed without UN or NATO support. And this bombing/Iraq war was based on a lie that Bush told to the public. By the way I here Bush is golfing with OJ. OJ is looking for the real killer and Bush is looking for weapons of mass destruction.

The US doesn't care about anything.
That's not very scholarly of you. I'm sure even you could find at least a thread of silver lining in the evil USA.


As notorius breakers of international law why should they. In 1986 the UN Security Council tried to pass a motion to force states to abide by int'l Law the US vetoed it. The US has broken Int'l Law on many occasions icluding 1986 in Nicaragua; mid 80s in Panama and most recently in the softwood lumber debate with Canada where they refused, TWICE, to accept an international tribunal's decision which is in favour of Canada.
The USA is iteself a terrorist state but just calls it humanitarian aid or some other such nonsense when they do something. Just recently five (give or take) US Senators voted against a bill to outlaw torture of foreign prisoners. I know Amercians are prone to violence but do you think your country could start joining the evolution of man kind and at least respect laws of the world even if it hurts themselves.
You may not realize this yet, but the reason we are rejecting the existing world order is because we are attempting to replace it with a New World Order, run by our mercantilists. We don't want to follow the world's laws because it is our aim to impose our laws on the world. And now that the Soviet Union is gone who's strong enough to stop us?


EDIT: I'm not saying that what we are doing is right, or just, or at all ethical. But the lack of a global balance of power at this point tells the US that it can do what it wants when it wants, and right now our leaders want to rule the world.

Then again...Canada will tell an 80 year old cancer patient that they won't get treatment although the treatment might help. It just isn't in the budget of the Socialized medicine program. So you Mr or Mrs 80 year-old have to die. But there is money here for Miss 20 year olds plastic surgery.

Yea...those Canadians have their priorities straight.
And the US won't help the nine-year old with cancer because he/she does not have insurance.

The US is under no obligation to obey any international laws that the US hasn't drafted. We're not about to obey any rules written by UN pinheads and terrorists. We'll do what we want and you'll deal with it or else!

Well, what kind of response did you expect to the original post?

And the US won't help the nine-year old with cancer because he/she does not have insurance.

OOooh. We have Medicaid and Medicare for the poor and elderly...

That's not very scholarly of you. I'm sure even you could find at least a thread of silver lining in the evil USA.



You may not realize this yet, but the reason we are rejecting the existing world order is because we are attempting to replace it with a New World Order, run by our mercantilists. We don't want to follow the world's laws because it is our aim to impose our laws on the world. And now that the Soviet Union is gone who's strong enough to stop us?
"You forgot Poland." - George W. Bush - circa 2002

Okay let's get off the medical system debate. That's a different debate. We're talking about Int'l Law and terrorism here. :p

And this was when????? I think it was the US who bombed without UN or NATO support. And this bombing/Iraq war was based on a lie that Bush told to the public. By the way I here Bush is golfing with OJ. OJ is looking for the real killer and Bush is looking for weapons of mass destruction.

Way before Iraq my little flowerpot.

In fact, the bombs dropped from Canadian planes before they fell from any American ones on this particular mission. Canadian pilots bombed a passenger train and a civilian TV station, among other targets.

Lacadaemon could enlighten you on the Canadian War Criminal Chretien.

DK, do you have a credible source to back this up?

Phew... for a minute I thought this might extend beyond the fraternal bond that exists between Canada and the US.... :p

And the US won't help the nine-year old with cancer because he/she does not have insurance.



Pure bullshit- but it probably makes you feel good thinking about it.

You have never seen a child turned away from care because of no insurance in the US. We even treat illegal aliens with no insurance and fake ID here.

DK, do you have a credible source to back this up?

You obviously don't remember the bombing of Kosovo, do you?

That's right - if Canadians do it without UN permission, it's great. If the US does it without UN permission, it's bad.

BTW, long after the fact (about six months), the UN gave you permission. After the fact. So your Canadian military is covered...

Okay, if you do not have any news sources back then to back what you say, do not make accusations that something was done. Alright? You need the proof when someone ask (like in a proper discussion).

"The US doesn't care about anything."

"I know Amercians are prone to violence..."

Here is how you cheapened and thoroughly rid your argument of any validity.

Go protest in the streets.

And the US won't help the nine-year old with cancer because he/she does not have insurance.

actually...the US hospital is required to give treatment regardless of whether or not hte patient can pay for it.

Chuck Norris talked shit about America once. He infuriated himself so much that he kicked his own ass.

Okay let's get off the medical system debate. That's a different debate. We're talking about Int'l Law and terrorism here. :p

I would consider letting one's own citizen's die a terrible form of terrorism.

actually...the US hospital is required to give treatment regardless of whether or not hte patient can pay for it.

But don't let facts get in the way of an Anti-US rant.....

Okay, if you do not have any news sources back then to back what you say, do not make accusations that something was done. Alright? You need the proof when someone ask (like in a proper discussion).
There are many sources to back what I say. This discussion has taken place many times on this forum.

But, I'll direct you to a summary
http://www.deltax.net/bissett/a-iraq.htm

Politicians have short memories when it is convenient to forget embarrassing inconsistencies. Today, Prime Minister Chretien expresses deep concern that military action might be taken against Saddam Hussein without prior approval of the Security Council.

Yet, four years ago without even bothering to consult the United Nations he readily ordered Canadian forces to join in the bombing of Yugoslavia. There was no declaration of war and the bombing was conducted without the approval of the Canadian Parliament.

Despite the knowledge that the bombing was a flagrant violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations, there was no hesitation or scruples about going ahead. There was then no suggestion that operating outside the umbrella of the UN might have long-term consequences and deal a blow to the framework of international security.

No explanations for the lack of consultation were forthcoming and no apologies made. Indeed the failure to consult the UN was not even a subject of discussion in our Parliament.

The Prime Minister was in good company. None of the political parties raised objections. The leader of the New Democratic Party eagerly supported the bombing. The then Foreign Minister, Lloyd Axworthy, the Canadian champion of human security, studiously avoided any suggestion that Security Council authority should first have been obtained before the bombs were dropped.

The US doesn't care about anything. As notorius breakers of international law why should they. In 1986 the UN Security Council tried to pass a motion to force states to abide by int'l Law the US vetoed it. The US has broken Int'l Law on many occasions icluding 1986 in Nicaragua; mid 80s in Panama and most recently in the softwood lumber debate with Canada where they refused, TWICE, to accept an international tribunal's decision which is in favour of Canada.
The USA is iteself a terrorist state but just calls it humanitarian aid or some other such nonsense when they do something. Just recently five (give or take) US Senators voted against a bill to outlaw torture of foreign prisoners. I know Amercians are prone to violence but do you think your country could start joining the evolution of man kind and at least respect laws of the world even if it hurts themselves.

Ahh, look at the dates you have mentioned. Anyone else see anything relevant there, like that fact that Republicans were in control during those time periods? :eek:

I'd though It'd point that out, just to keep things interesting, heh :p

Ahh, look at the dates you have mentioned. Anyone else see anything relevant there, like that fact that Republicans were in control during those time periods? :eek:

I'd though It'd point that out, just to keep things interesting, heh :p

That's why they call Republicans Warhawks.

actually...the US hospital is required to give treatment regardless of whether or not hte patient can pay for it.


This fact is often unknown to the assorted ignorami that want to bash the US. Its so much easier just to blather about how deliberately maleovolent we all are.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/privateering.html

That's right, Canada has made a habit of attacking and robbing defenseless American ships.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/privateering.html

That's right, Canada has made a habit of attacking and robbing defenseless American ships.


Oh.MY.God.

This fact is often unknown to the assorted ignorami that want to bash the US. Its so much easier just to blather about how deliberately maleovolent we all are.

Not to mention that a border hospital in the US (Like Niagara Falls Memorial) will even take a Canadian that has been turned away by the socialized healthcare system.

Of course, we also go over the border to buy our prescriptions as the prices here are high enough to kill you. But then, this is only true since Bush came to power and I'm sure that once the Pharm lobby is out of business in a couple years when we get a real person in charge.

My main point is...don't blame America...blame Bush for all this. But also look at the blood on your own hands before you point a finger.

Not to mention that a border hospital in the US (Like Niagara Falls Memorial) will even take a Canadian that has been turned away by the socialized healthcare system.

Of course, we also go over the border to buy our prescriptions as the prices here are high enough to kill you. But then, this is only true since Bush came to power and I'm sure that once the Pharm lobby is out of business in a couple years when we get a real person in charge.

My main point is...don't blame America...blame Bush for all this. But also look at the blood on your own hands before you point a finger.

I guess thats a reasonable assesment.

http://67.15.181.134/4555/79/emo/popcorn2.gif


Ooooo

Can I have some?

And this was when????? I think it was the US who bombed without UN or NATO support. And this bombing/Iraq war was based on a lie that Bush told to the public. By the way I here Bush is golfing with OJ. OJ is looking for the real killer and Bush is looking for weapons of mass destruction.

Canada took part too as did Great Britain. I believe it was in 1999. A year after Operation Desert Fox.

And under International Law, the Iraq war was legal but I wont get into it because I"ve debated it enough.

This fact is often unknown to the assorted ignorami that want to bash the US. Its so much easier just to blather about how deliberately maleovolent we all are.

And what you leave out is that afterwards the "lucky" patient ends up saddled with a medical bill that reaches into the ten-thousands quite often and many are unable to pay that debt off which impacts their credit ratings.

While we're breaking the law, you are having your sovereignty siphoned off by int'l treaties and the UN.

All I want to know is where was beloved international law when Rwandans were being massacred in 1994? Or Afghanis and Iraqis in the 1990's?

If international law is the future of mankind, we're going downhill fast. All I see is ineffectiveness, corruption, incompetence, and cowardice. Sometimes, it takes standing up and get what needs to be done, done.

This doesn't mean I support things like the softwood lumber fiasco or running amok, but I also don't support having national security and sovreignity taken away by a bunch of diplomats who would rather spend their time complaining and drafting meaningless "condemnations" than getting things done.

And what you leave out is that afterwards the "lucky" patient ends up saddled with a medical bill that reaches into the ten-thousands quite often and many are unable to pay that debt off which impacts their credit ratings.

So...dead in canada. Bad credit in the USA.

Hmmmm...Which one do I choose????

:D

Pure bullshit- but it probably makes you feel good thinking about it.

You have never seen a child turned away from care because of no insurance in the US. We even treat illegal aliens with no insurance and fake ID here.

Is that why George W. Bush signed a law in Texas allowing doctors to pull the life support plug on a child against the parent's wishes based on the parent's ability to pay...and said law was enforced against a little black baby?

Any way, that's neither here nor there.

I don't think my fellow USians are any better or worse than anyone else...but I do agree that we have one of the worst governements in the world at the moment, thanks in large part to Chimpy McFlightsuit.

"You forgot Poland." - George W. Bush - circa 2002

2004 actually.. first Presidential debate..

That's about as far as I'll wade into this thread.. I think I can actually smell it through the monitor.. not pleasant.

And what you leave out is that afterwards the "lucky" patient ends up saddled with a medical bill that reaches into the ten-thousands quite often and many are unable to pay that debt off which impacts their credit ratings.

The guy on Page 1's grandmother was with an HMO, Kaiser.. shoulda cost about $10 for whatever surgery was needed. My dad's bypass surgery was $10 with Kaiser.. it's not as expensive as you'd think, unless you need some exotic treatment that isn't covered, but then you'd have to pay for that under any insurer here, and it probably wouldn't be available in Canada if it's not covered here..

Edit: Alright, now I'm through.. good night. ;)

And this was when????? I think it was the US who bombed without UN or NATO support. And this bombing/Iraq war was based on a lie that Bush told to the public. By the way I here Bush is golfing with OJ. OJ is looking for the real killer and Bush is looking for weapons of mass destruction.

If Bush lied so did all the rest of the Senators, the Russians, the French, Germans, Chinese, British, Saudi's, and so on and so on. Get over the Bush lied bit. Its completely false. Get a new chant. How bout this. "Down with America!". Cause thats obviously what you think. Im sure you could find support for your cause in Iran.

Get over the Bush lied bit. Its completely false. Get a new chant.
He lied about bits of it...or at least he told things that weren't the truth.

As for the rest of the world - notice how the rest of the world wanted to make sure before going in.

How bout this. "Down with America!". Cause thats obviously what you think. Im sure you could find support for your cause in Iran.
I would've expected better from you.

He lied about bits of it...or at least he told things that weren't the truth.

Im afraid that case could be made for the whole lot.

As for the rest of the world - notice how the rest of the world wanted to make sure before going in.

I suppose they wanted Saddam to make payment arrangements first on what he owed them. Speaking of our so called allies.


I would've expected better from you.

I usually reserve the more intelligent things for people that actually dont suck.

My aunt lives in Toronto, and they told her (she had pancreatic cancer) that she would have to wait 18 months because there weren't any surgeons currently available in all of Canada who could handle that kind of surgery (she was told most of the good ones leave Canada and move to the US). Yes, there are surgeons, but there's a big line of patients. So busy that you have to wait more than a year. She was also told that without the surgery, she would be dead within six months.

So essentially, they told her to die.

We brought her down to the US and got the surgery a few days later. She's fine now. But no thanks to the Canadian system of health care. You can thank Kaiser Permanente.

Yeah?
Well, I haven't been able to find a job in nearly a year, the last thing I had was TEMP ONLY, and that ended almost six months ago. My unemployment benefits since have run out, but I have, thanks to the lackluster economy, been unable to find a job....every time I interview, someone else gets the job, and I end up just racking up bills for gasoline to go to interviews for jobs I don't get.

Every time I HAVE been employed, steady, during a recession, there's always been extended unemployment benefits! But now, when I need them, suddenly, there aren't any extensions available.

so, essentially, my government told ME to die.

God bless America!

And the US won't help the nine-year old with cancer because he/she does not have insurance.
And they won't help the 34-year old with good office skills who can't find a job, either.

They tell both to just curl up and die.

God bless America!

Pure bullshit- but it probably makes you feel good thinking about it.

You have never seen a child turned away from care because of no insurance in the US. We even treat illegal aliens with no insurance and fake ID here.

Yep. and real citizens...adults, like me...if we need medical help, we can go fuck ourselves. Thanks to having no job, and thus, no health insurance, I had to endure two ear infections that lasted weeks, instead of days, as they would have, had I been able to get treatment. As a result, I have partially lost my hearing.

God bless America!

actually...the US hospital is required to give treatment regardless of whether or not hte patient can pay for it.

Quite true. and then you end up with bills that you can never pay, and are, essentially, fucked for life.

Most folks like me, faced with that prospect, would just rather not go get treatment, and not have the stress of bills and bill collectors, and whatnot for the rest of our goddamn lives.

UN - Gigantic league of shit heads taking over the world one Civil Right at a time.

I would consider letting one's own citizen's die a terrible form of terrorism.

I would absolutely and unequivocally agree with that statement. Fuck the USA. I paid my taxes, I obeyed the law, I was always a good citizen, and now, just because I can't find a job, thanks, at least in part, to discrimination, my country is essentially telling me to just go die.

God bless America!

That's why they call Republicans Warhawks.

No. they are CHICKEN Hawks, because they all never went to war themselves, when it was their turn...but they have no trouble sending the children of poor people to fight wars for their big profits!

This fact is often unknown to the assorted ignorami that want to bash the US. Its so much easier just to blather about how deliberately maleovolent we all are.

Quite frankly, in my experience and observation, we ARE deliberately malevolent to anyone who is not a member of the white, Christian, heterosexual majority.

No. they are CHICKEN Hawks, because they all never went to war themselves, when it was their turn...but they have no trouble sending the children of poor people to fight wars for their big profits!

Oh come on now that is bullshit right there. That is the largest generalization you have made so far. Look we get that your angry with the government, you've had problems with getting a job, and society is not treating you as best as it should. BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO GO AROUND AND MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

No. they are CHICKEN Hawks, because they all never went to war themselves, when it was their turn...but they have no trouble sending the children of poor people to fight wars for their big profits!

Are all republican chicken hawks?

And what you leave out is that afterwards the "lucky" patient ends up saddled with a medical bill that reaches into the ten-thousands quite often and many are unable to pay that debt off which impacts their credit ratings.
My point exactly in my earlier post.

Just as an example...when my brother was 19, my mom's health insurance quit covering him 30 days after his nineteenth birthday. My brother was not working, at the time, for a company that provided health insurance.

35 days after his nineteenth birthday, he broke a leg. As a result of FIVE LOUSY DAYS, my brother was left saddled with a $14,000 hospital bill, just starting out in life, and already fucked.

God bless America!

Are all republican chicken hawks?

Yes. Especially the ones serving in the Middle East right now.. :p And don't forget those Gulf I and Vietnam vets.. buncha cowards.

No. they are CHICKEN Hawks, because they all never went to war themselves, when it was their turn...but they have no trouble sending the children of poor people to fight wars for their big profits!

I tend to vote republican. I Am not poor and served in a war. The vast majority of serviceman and women that I served with came from the middle class. Get a clue first before you spout off.

Is that why George W. Bush signed a law in Texas allowing doctors to pull the life support plug on a child against the parent's wishes based on the parent's ability to pay...and said law was enforced against a little black baby?

Any way, that's neither here nor there.

I don't think my fellow USians are any better or worse than anyone else...but I do agree that we have one of the worst governements in the world at the moment, thanks in large part to Chimpy McFlightsuit.

Yep! I remember that fiasco, because I was living in Texas at the time!

And this is the SAME George Bush who fought to keep WHITE Terri Schiavo "alive" or...well, attached to a feeding tube, anyway.

And they won't help the 34-year old with good office skills who can't find a job, either.

They tell both to just curl up and die.

God bless America!

"They?"

They have been good to me.. a 21-year old with few job skills.. I've managed to get four jobs this year, until I got one I really liked that pays over 25k per year now with good hours and benefits..

God bless America! :p

I mean, if we're gonna argue by anecdote, why not take it all the way?

Oh come on now that is bullshit right there. That is the largest generalization you have made so far. Look we get that your angry with the government, you've had problems with getting a job, and society is not treating you as best as it should. BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO GO AROUND AND MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

Well, I am asick and tired of people defending the US like it's a goddamn SAINT...when it treats it's own citizens as shabbily as I have been treated!

UN - Gigantic league of shit heads taking over the world one Civil Right at a time.

You sure you didn't mean U.S. there?

Are all republican chicken hawks?

not John McCain. HE actually WENT to war. And was a resident of the Hanoi Hotel for five years. When they offered to release him, upon finding out he was a Senator's son, he refused, unless everyone else there with him was also released.

Notice McCain also is not a bellicose asshole always wanting to go to war!!

No, it is the fucking chicken hawks who, themselves never went, that are bellicose and always wanting and demanding war, and are freely sending poor people's children off to die in the name of record profits for Halliburton!

God bless America!

I tend to vote republican. I Am not poor and served in a war. The vast majority of serviceman and women that I served with came from the middle class. Get a clue first before you spout off.

How about YOU get a clue before you next go to a voting booth?

Well, I am asick and tired of people defending the US like it's a goddamn SAINT...when it treats it's own citizens as shabbily as I have been treated!

Every country has fucking treated citizens badly. No one is perfect and by far you could have been in a worse country. To sit there and think that the treatment you have endured is the blanket way people in the US are treated is as much a folly as to think that the US is perfect in treating its citizens.

not John McCain. HE actually WENT to war. And was a resident of the Hanoi Hotel for five years. When they offered to release him, upon finding out he was a Senator's son, he refused, unless everyone else there with him was also released.

Notice McCain also is not a bellicose asshole always wanting to go to war!!

I did notice that.

No, it is the fucking chicken hawks who, themselves never went, that are bellicose and always wanting and demanding war, and are freely sending poor people's children off to die in the name of record profits for Halliburton!

God bless America!

Ok, so long as you draw the distinction.

How about YOU get a clue before you next go to a voting booth?

Don't tell people how to vote. That is so undemocratic. This isn't a Saddam like tyranny. Unless your trying to turn it into one.

How about YOU get a clue before you next go to a voting booth?

Not needed.

"They?"

They have been good to me.. a 21-year old with few job skills.. I've managed to get four jobs this year, until I got one I really liked that pays over 25k per year now with good hours and benefits..

God bless America! :p

I mean, if we're gonna argue by anecdote, why not take it all the way?

Good for you. Already you make more than I ever made per year. Then again, I'm willing to bet YOU aren't a transsexual, agasinst whom it is still LEGAL to discriminate.

Good for you. Already you make more than I ever made per year. Then again, I'm willing to bet YOU aren't a transsexual, agasinst whom it is still LEGAL to discriminate.

I'll probably catch hell for this but I'll ask it anyway.

Do you tell them that your a transexual?

Notice McCain also is not a bellicose asshole always wanting to go to war!!


He doesn't? He supports the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.. what other wars are there right now? He's supported every war we've fought since Vietnam, so I guess that would count as "always," for wars fought during his lifetime.

Then again...Canada will tell an 80 year old cancer patient that they won't get treatment although the treatment might help. It just isn't in the budget of the Socialized medicine program. So you Mr or Mrs 80 year-old have to die. But there is money here for Miss 20 year olds plastic surgery.

Yea...those Canadians have their priorities straight.
Unfortunately you are wrong. Cosmetic surgery is not covered by Canadian health care and all life threatening concerns are.

Every country has fucking treated citizens badly. No one is perfect and by far you could have been in a worse country. To sit there and think that the treatment you have endured is the blanket way people in the US are treated is as much a folly as to think that the US is perfect in treating its citizens.

Well, it pisses me off that for years I have paid taxes, followed the law, been a good citizen...and NOW...after all those years...when I need a little help, my government essentially tells me to go fuck myself.

They will not give me extended unemployment benefits...they will not stand up for my right to not face discrimination (there's nothing fucking illegal about getting a sex-change operation, damnit!!) Yet I am treated, in the job market...worse than even convicted fucking FELONS are!

How about YOU get a clue before you next go to a voting booth?

The problem isnt everyone else lyric. Its you..... Now pick up your sorry self. Wipe off the self pity. Stop accusing everyone else for your misfortunes. You make life what you want. It is not up to US to do that for you. This country is not designed to be socialist and try and take care of everyone. Get a grip and a reality check. I would surely try and clean up the attitude the next time you try and get a job. As an employer I can see a bad attitude a mile away. You wouldnt make it two steps into my office for an interview. Your attitude is beyond bad from what you have posted.

Good for you. Already you make more than I ever made per year. Then again, I'm willing to bet YOU aren't a transsexual, agasinst whom it is still LEGAL to discriminate.

Didn't mean to open up that can of worms.. I have no clue how transsexuals are treated in whatever industry you're in.. although they'd probably do fine where I am, since I'm in S&R, not in customer service..

I did notice that.



Ok, so long as you draw the distinction.

Fair enough. And I did so, too.
but, it is always the people who never went to war THEMSELVES...and who never had anyone THEY loved killed in a war...that are so willing to send OTHER PEOPLE to go die in wars for thier profits!

Don't tell people how to vote. That is so undemocratic. This isn't a Saddam like tyranny. Unless your trying to turn it into one.

Well, until the Republican assholes get out of power, I don't see my life improving. I want those fuckers GONE, by whatever means necessary!

I'm sick of enduring a shit life, okay?

Fair enough. And I did so, too.
but, it is always the people who never went to war THEMSELVES...and who never had anyone THEY loved killed in a war...that are so willing to send OTHER PEOPLE to go die in wars for thier profits!

Ok, what about those of us who haven't been but had loved ones that did go over and still support this war? Are we still chickenhawks?

*just asking out of curiosity*

Well, until the Republican assholes get out of power, I don't see my life improving. I want those fuckers GONE, by whatever means necessary!

I'm sick of enduring a shit life, okay?

And I"m tired of hearing of your shit life ok?

As for the Republicans getting out of power, I don't see that happening anytime soon. It won't happen till the Democrats put up more moderate to conservative candidates.

The same goes for the Republican Party. They need to run more moderates too.

Well, it pisses me off that for years I have paid taxes, followed the law, been a good citizen...and NOW...after all those years...when I need a little help, my government essentially tells me to go fuck myself.

They will not give me extended unemployment benefits...they will not stand up for my right to not face discrimination (there's nothing fucking illegal about getting a sex-change operation, damnit!!) Yet I am treated, in the job market...worse than even convicted fucking FELONS are!

1. Everyone generally can be a model citizen and get pissed on by the government. Its one of the tenants of being fallable, that we all make mistakes.

2. I don't think the government has directly said for you to go fuck yourself, just more that its policy does not represent the ideals you would like it to.

3. Change is a slow process here especially when dealing with civil rights. One can only hope that the people in charge stop looking through their rose colored glasses and realize that the USA has problems too.

I'll probably catch hell for this but I'll ask it anyway.

Do you tell them that your a transexual?

Of course not! But do you think they can't figure it out??
Employers get credit histories and past employment checks on you...and you are often compelled to divulge former names used in order to assist in criminal background checks.

It doesn't take a fucking ROCKET SCIENTIST to figure it out when Marie...who filled out your application...shows up as Marcus on a credit report!

And no, neither of those names are my current or former name...just used here to illustrate my point.

the point is...EMPLOYERS OFTEN FIND OUT THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT THEM TO KNOW ABOUT YOU...and then, in my case, they use that knowledge to discriminate against me in the employment process...and they, in most places, do this LEGALLY.

The problem isnt everyone else lyric. Its you..... Now pick up your sorry self. Wipe off the self pity. Stop accusing everyone else for your misfortunes. You make life what you want. It is not up to US to do that for you. This country is not designed to be socialist and try and take care of everyone. Get a grip and a reality check. I would surely try and clean up the attitude the next time you try and get a job. As an employer I can see a bad attitude a mile away. You wouldnt make it two steps into my office for an interview. Your attitude is beyond bad from what you have posted.

And yours WOULDN'T be? Considering the shit-storm I have walked through??

Fuck, I'd like to see you TRY putting up with half the shit I have, and see if YOU don't come out on the other side with a sour attitude!

Of course not! But do you think they can't figure it out??
Employers get credit histories and past employment checks on you...and you are often compelled to divulge former names used in order to assist in criminal background checks.

Unfortunately, employers can't check your credit history but they can look at past employment as well as criminal records.

It doesn't take a fucking ROCKET SCIENTIST to figure it out when Marie...who filled out your application...shows up as Marcus on a credit report!

Unless your going for a loan, companies can't check out your credit history. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

And no, neither of those names are my current or former name...just used here to illustrate my point.

I figured that.

the point is...EMPLOYERS OFTEN FIND OUT THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT THEM TO KNOW ABOUT YOU...and then, in my case, they use that knowledge to discriminate against me in the employment process...and they, in most places, do this LEGALLY.

Well then, why don't we work together to get the law changed? We can start at the local level and work our way up :)

Didn't mean to open up that can of worms.. I have no clue how transsexuals are treated in whatever industry you're in.. although they'd probably do fine where I am, since I'm in S&R, not in customer service..
I don't even know what S&R is. I'm not in customer service, either...but, considering some of the people they LET into customer service, a transsexual should be the least of their concerns!
I happen to be a very skilled office clerk. But I get no job offers, anyway...and I'm quite positive a lot of that has to do with the fact of my being a transsexual, and the job market being so rotten, that employers are able to BE most choosy.

<snip>
I don't believe they can get a hold of your credit report unless you let them. But there are other ways employers can get info that can be just as informative.

1. Everyone generally can be a model citizen and get pissed on by the government. Its one of the tenants of being fallable, that we all make mistakes.

2. I don't think the government has directly said for you to go fuck yourself, just more that its policy does not represent the ideals you would like it to.

3. Change is a slow process here especially when dealing with civil rights. One can only hope that the people in charge stop looking through their rose colored glasses and realize that the USA has problems too.

I certainly agree with number 3. Especially the last part of it.
As for number 2...no, maybe not directly...but the EFFECT of those policies is the same as if they really HAD directly told me to go fuck myself, so, in the end, who cares?

The results are the same.

I don't even know what S&R is. I'm not in customer service, either...but, considering some of the people they LET into customer service, a transsexual should be the least of their concerns!
I happen to be a very skilled office clerk. But I get no job offers, anyway...and I'm quite positive a lot of that has to do with the fact of my being a transsexual, and the job market being so rotten, that employers are able to BE most choosy.

Since all sectors are hiring, they can be choosy in who they want. The question is, how much office skills you have. That is something they do look at too.

OOooh. We have Medicaid and Medicare for the poor and elderly...
Gunning for the Poor (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/18/AR2005101801219.html)

A revolt of House conservatives has persuaded that body's Republican leadership to offset the increased federal spending going to rebuild the Hurricane Katrina-devastated Gulf Coast by reductions in Medicaid, food stamps and other programs for the indigent. If things go according to plan, this week the House will begin to cut $50 billion from those efforts.

At Clinic, Hurdles to Clear Before Medicaid Care (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/nyregion/nyregionspecial4/17clinic.html?ei=5090&en=c5f3c85b6092aac7&ex=1287201600&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all)

When Medicaid Fails (http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2005/10/when_medicaid_f.html)

Pérez-Peña also notes that many poor Americans, even those insured by Medicaid, don't necessarily have good access to care, either because low-income communities are underserved or they lack information, suggesting that improvements along these lines could go a long ways.

Yup!! Medicaid, got it....check!!:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, employers can't check your credit history but they can look at past employment as well as criminal records.



Unless your going for a loan, companies can't check out your credit history. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.



I figured that.



Well then, why don't we work together to get the law changed? We can start at the local level and work our way up :)


Companies CAN and DO check credit histories on employment applicants. anyone with "a legitimate business need" can obtain your credit report. And it was long ago decided that screening a candidate for employment as "a legitimate business need."

Two, on most applications, you are asked to provide any former names you went under...for the purpose of criminal background checks. THEREFORE, I AM FORCED TO REVEAL INFORMATION I DO NOT WANT THE POTENTIAL EMPLOYER TO KNOW (the fact of my transsexual status.) If I fail to provide it, they can later fire me for lying on my application. Omission is not an option. I am thus forced into giving them information that is none of their business, and has no bearing on my ability to do a job...and it isn't that I have a criminal record to hide (I don't) but I DON'T want them to know I am a transsexual!

As for working together to change the law...One...I don't have TIME for that, I need a job NOW!!!
And second...why would I expect any Republican...who all hate GLBT people...to help me, or my cause, to change the laws and make them fairer??

Since all sectors are hiring, they can be choosy in who they want. The question is, how much office skills you have. That is something they do look at too.

True. And if you put up any non-transsexual candidate (i.e. almost everyone else in the country) up against me in an interview...assuming they have comparable skills...999 times out of a thousand, who do YOU think is going to get the job offer?

I don't even know what S&R is. I'm not in customer service, either...but, considering some of the people they LET into customer service, a transsexual should be the least of their concerns!
I happen to be a very skilled office clerk. But I get no job offers, anyway...and I'm quite positive a lot of that has to do with the fact of my being a transsexual, and the job market being so rotten, that employers are able to BE most choosy.

S&R's shipping and receiving.. we actually do have some women transsexuals in our department, who dress in mens' clothing and have shaved or cropped hair, etc.. but it's still manual labor, unloading trucks, so I guess if you're looking for an office job, that'd be another thing entirely.. I've never had an office job, so I haven't dealt with the kind of employers you have, I suppose.

True. And if you put up any non-transsexual candidate (i.e. almost everyone else in the country) up against me in an interview...assuming they have comparable skills...999 times out of a thousand, who do YOU think is going to get the job offer?

I'll grant you this point however, companies can't check your credit report.

Economic Associates: I don't believe they can get a hold of your credit report unless you let them. But there are other ways employers can get info that can be just as informative.

Unfortunately, employers can't check your credit history but they can look at past employment as well as criminal records.

Unless your going for a loan, companies can't check out your credit history. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.


I'm afraid you are incorrect. Now they pretty much share your information freely and at will. Including Medical records, banking, employment history, criminal history etc, but no one is doing a thing about it.

Credit History has long been wide open for the right excuse, and jobs like police officers, corrections officers, state and federal agents have to pass the credit check. It is so bad now insurance companies have wide open access to your medical records and have started setting your insurance rates according to your credit rating. We desprately need a constitutional admendment for a right to privacy but no one complains because they don't have to tell you they are getting into your information.
..oh yeah, and lenders can have your medical information too, plus if you withdraw too much of your own money from your own bank account, the bank has to report you to the federal government.

And second...why would I expect any Republican...who all hate GLBT people...to help me, or my cause, to change the laws and make them fairer??

I had several gay employees when I managed a restaurant.. one bartender and two waiters.. If I was still running the place, I wouldn't discriminate, since I never had problems with them.. republicans need good employees like anyone else.

As for working together to change the law...One...I don't have TIME for that, I need a job NOW!!!

I understand that and I do hope you find one soon. I'll pray for ya to find one :)

And second...why would I expect any Republican...who all hate GLBT people...to help me, or my cause, to change the laws and make them fairer??

1) I don't hate gays. I actually have a friend who is a lesbian. I also don't hate bis or transsexuals either.

2) Because it is time that we have equality in the job market. I'm willing to work with dems, reps, and ind on this.

I'm afraid you are incorrect. Now they pretty much share your information freely and at will. Including Medical records, banking, employment history, criminal history etc, but no one is doing a thing about it.

But that's a violation of the privacy act. They can't share that without your permission. Especially medical records.

Credit History has long been wide open for the right excuse, and jobs like police officers, corrections officers, state and federal agents have to pass the credit check. It is so bad now insurance companies have wide open access to your medical records and have started setting your insurance rates according to your credit rating. We desprately need a constitutional admendment for a right to privacy but no one complains because they don't have to tell you they are getting into your information.

Well here's law number 2 that needs to be changed.

But that's a violation of the privacy act. They can't share that without your permission. Especially medical records.



Well here's law number 2 that needs to be changed.

Actually it's probably law 2 through 10. There have been a series of them enacted since the mid 90's that pretty much gutted any right to privacy or personal information.

The privacy act stripped us of our rights.

Actually it's probably law 2 through 10. There have been a series of them enacted since the mid 90's that pretty much gutted any right to privacy or personal information.

The privacy act stripped us of our rights.

Ok. We can still fix it though.

I'll grant you this point however, companies can't check your credit report.

Economic Associates: I don't believe they can get a hold of your credit report unless you let them. But there are other ways employers can get info that can be just as informative.

Yes, they can. Anyone with "a legitimate business need" can get a copy of your consumer credit report.
the problem is "a legitimate business need" is pretty specious.

And yes, there are yet other ways in which potential employers can get their hands on info I want to keep from them.

And even YOU agree that 999 times out of a thousand, the non-transsexual with comparable skills to mine, will be hired before I will.

I had several gay employees when I managed a restaurant.. one bartender and two waiters.. If I was still running the place, I wouldn't discriminate, since I never had problems with them.. republicans need good employees like anyone else.

Yeah? Well I wish they needed ME!!
I have a work ethic like a goddamn plow horse, if only someone would give me a motherfucking CHANCE!!!

I mean...Christ...all I am ever asking anyone for is a chance to make or break my own self, based upon my skills, abilities, experience, and merits....and to leave my transsexual status out of the decision-making process! Is THAT so unreasonable?

Actually it's probably law 2 through 10. There have been a series of them enacted since the mid 90's that pretty much gutted any right to privacy or personal information.

The privacy act stripped us of our rights.

EXACTLY!!
We no longer enjoy the right of privacy. Information I don't wish to divulge to a potential employer...is obtainable by said potential employer...even if I do not want him to have it.

Ok. We can still fix it though.

Unfortunately no we can not. Your information is scattered about among hundred or even thousands of companies and databases. It is against the law for the government to collect this sort of information on US citizens. It is not against the law for private (front companies) to have it.
Case in point when Jet Blue gave up their customer database for supposed testing of the governments new screening programs. The gave the information to a private company that in turn sold it to the government. It is a can of worms that can never be closed.

Unfortunately no we can not. Your information is scattered about among hundred or even thousands of companies and databases. It is against the law for the government to collect this sort of information on US citizens. It is not against the law for private (front companies) to have it.
Case in point when Jet Blue gave up their customer database for supposed testing of the governments new screening programs. The gave the information to a private company that in turn sold it to the government. It is a can of worms that can never be closed.

Then couldn't we just ban the private companies from having it?

Then couldn't we just ban the private companies from having it?
Well seeing how it is our own elected representatives, democrat, republican and independent that did it to us, any such effort would fall flat on it's face until such time that corporate influence can be minimized in government. I.E. Stop taxing corporations and giving them a voice in government and at the same time eliminating their ability to lobby. Unfortunately with the McCain/Fiengold bill not only trumped freedom of speech, it opened the floodgates to unlimited political financing from corporations, special interest groups, foreign governments etc. Since there are only 9 major sources of news left in this country and all but one or two are corporations you are never ever going to hear them push for anthing like that.

Disclaimer: No, I am not a liberal.