NationStates Jolt Archive

This term came up recently in a thread and now I am confused again. If you'll excuse my French: Double-U Tee Eff? :)

No, agnostics are seekers. Atheists aren't even trying.
Depends Explicit yeah they are not trying so hard but Implicit is different

And when you think of it the agnosic belief is that you can not PROVE a deity one way or another so really can they be seeking all to hard when they feel there is nothing to look for?
I understand explicit belief and explicit disbelief. Both come right out and make a declaration that is clear. I understand implicit belief and implicit disbelief. Both utilize the concepts in thought and speech without coming right out and saying them. But how are these concepts applicable to agnosticism, which is essentially "not knowing"? How can one Explicitly not know and Implicitly not know?

i wasnt aware that those terms applied to agnisticism...:confused:

i wasnt aware that those terms applied to agnisticism...:confused:
Agreed never heard it as well ... I will have to think about it lol

Agreed never heard it as well ... I will have to think about it lol
Haha :fluffle:

This term came up recently in a thread and now I am confused again. If you'll excuse my French: Double-U Tee Eff? :)


I understand explicit belief and explicit disbelief. Both come right out and make a declaration that is clear. I understand implicit belief and implicit disbelief. Both utilize the concepts in thought and speech without coming right out and saying them. But how are these concepts applicable to agnosticism, which is essentially "not knowing"? How can one Explicitly not know and Implicitly not know?
Ok to start with to get it clear agnosticism (as I know it) is more the act of you can not KNOW

Subdaly different then actualy not knowing

Agnosicism usualy goes hand in hand with a belief then ... (usualy either deism or implicit atheism) but can go with other beliefs as well

I guess I can see how the terms could apply but I dont see that they add much to the deffinition of agnosticism

And when you think of it the agnosic belief is that you can not PROVE a deity one way or another so really can they be seeking all to hard when they feel there is nothing to look for?
I see you as the epitomal agnostic (not always, but sometimes). They are the person asking the questions. For the atheist, there are not even any questions about divinity to be asked. God is a non-issue; there has been no learning past base statements that are meaningless to them; they are not in-formed* by the idea of god. The agnostic is informed enough to want to understand what it is that they are missing out on. They are the 'seeker after knowledge'.


*Formed from within, such as having their mind-set adjusted for or against the idea of divinity.

Ok to start with to get it clear agnosticism (as I know it) is more the act of you can not KNOW
I do not believe it is possible that anyone cannot know god, that that understanding is beyond them.

I do not believe it is possible that anyone cannot know god, that that understanding is beyond them.
Sorry I should have been more clear

I must be tired

Let me try that again

Agnosticism is the belief that it is not possible to objectivly proove (specialy using emperical evidence) a deity

I do not believe it is possible that anyone cannot know god, that that understanding is beyond them.

depends on the definition of god right? if god wished to keep its self from being known, then it would be possible...no one could know anything that god does not wish to be known...

I see you as the epitomal agnostic (not always, but sometimes). They are the person asking the questions. For the atheist, there are not even any questions about divinity to be asked. God is a non-issue; there has been no learning past base statements that are meaningless to them; they are not in-formed* by the idea of god. The agnostic is informed enough to want to understand what it is that they are missing out on. They are the 'seeker after knowledge'.


*Formed from within, such as having their mind-set adjusted for or against the idea of divinity.
Well thank you for the complement ... while I am agnostic I am also an implicit atheist

The lines are very blured one being a lack of belief because of lack of evidence (for them) and one beling that you can not prove it objectivly

In the end you end up with a lot of people like me , I do not believe in a deity, and I do not believe that it is possible for objective proof of said deity

That does not mean my belief can not change I understand it ... in the end it might not be that objective proof (that I believe can not exist) that changes my belief in the existance of a deity

Just right now that seems to be the sort of evidence I need to form some sort of belief on the subject

Sorry I should have been more clear

I must be tired

Let me try that again

Agnosticism is the belief that it is not possible to objectivly proove (specialy using emperical evidence) a deity
That's not necessarily true. An agnostic is certainly of the belief that no deity has been objectively proven. On the other hand, all agnostics would have to admit that an enormous hand coming out of the sky, crushing Israel and America before giving Palestine a big pat on the head, would be a fairly reasonable proof of the existence of Allah.

That's not necessarily true. An agnostic is certainly of the belief that no deity has been objectively proven. On the other hand, all agnostics would have to admit that an enormous hand coming out of the sky, crushing Israel and America before giving Palestine a big pat on the head, would be a fairly reasonable proof of the existence of Allah.

what are the odds of that happeneing? you have a point. but, at the moment, there is nothing to prove a deity, and until that hand comes out of the sky, it will remain that way...

Well thank you for the complement ... while I am agnostic I am also an implicit atheist

The lines are very blured one being a lack of belief because of lack of evidence (for them) and one beling that you can not prove it objectivly

In the end you end up with a lot of people like me , I do not believe in a deity, and I do not believe that it is possible for objective proof of said deity

That does not mean my belief can not change I understand it ... in the end it might not be that objective proof (that I believe can not exist) that changes my belief in the existance of a deity

Just right now that seems to be the sort of evidence I need to form some sort of belief on the subject
Still, you are moving in the direction of asking the right questions.

That's not necessarily true. An agnostic is certainly of the belief that no deity has been objectively proven. On the other hand, all agnostics would have to admit that an enormous hand coming out of the sky, crushing Israel and America before giving Palestine a big pat on the head, would be a fairly reasonable proof of the existence of Allah.
Hmmm possibly (I will have tot hink about it)

But in the end who to say that is allah

As we have no way to test for it it may imply a-lot but it is hardly bullitproof