NationStates Jolt Archive

…neither is Christianity. It’s a relationship with Jesus.

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.



Sounds like christianity to me.

Sounds like christianity to me.
Ya got it before me :high five:

Yeah. Religion is the belief in a "God", Atheism rather than a religion is the lack of a religion.

Blacks not a colour its the lack of colour :eek:

Ya got it before me :high five:

*returns high five*

Actually, from a sociologists perspective, Atheism is a religion, Catholicism is a religion, and any other denomination or belief is a religion. Technically, and ironically, Communism can be classified as a religion. I define Christianity as a faith overriding and subsuming the beliefs of several denominations. There is no official, uncontested Christian religion. There are many Christian denominations which are technically separate, but interrelated, religions.

Communists agree with Marx in calling religion the opiate of the people. Sociologists call Communism a religion. Once you get down to studying the real definition of things and cease simply labeling labeling them, everything gets a bit more interesting, doesn't it?

As an agnostic, I believe that atheism has a lot in common with religion, if actually isn't one.

But the original post wasn't good for much more than a laugh.

Personally, I don't see how you can call the rejection of religion a religion. Would someone please explain that to me?

…neither is Christianity. It’s a relationship with Jesus.
That's what religion is, a relationship with divinity. Atheism is no relationship with divinity.

As an agnostic, I believe that atheism has a lot in common with religion, if actually isn't one.

But the original post wasn't good for much more than a laugh.
Yeah explicit atheism most deffinatly is a "faith" system even if it is not a religion

(though implicit is a bit different)

…neither is Christianity. It’s a relationship with Jesus.
I thought that was called necrophilia?

Blacks not a colour its the lack of colour :eek:

Actually this depends on your defintion. By the notion of art it is a coulor, in the same way that by the notion of art the primary coulors are red, yellow and blue. Whereas the notion of science says black is just a description of a absorbsion of all light by a surface, in the same way that the notion of scinece disagrees with art and says the primary coulors are red, blue and green.

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. Okay, you guys win there
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. Well atheism is a belief system, the belief that there is no God. And the way some people debate it, make you wonder if they do worship it.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order. Once again, certain atheist seem to stick together like it was a big religious following.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. Although not spiritual in today's sense, Epicurus, Socrates, have been called the fathers of Atheism
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Some atheists, especially on this forum, debate the non-existence of God with conscientious devotion

Well, that's just my two cents. I do believe Christianity is a religion; I just got tired of people saying Atheism isn't and you can't convert people to it. Well I guess it's your opinion if Atheism is a religion, but like any other belief, you certainly can convert people

I thought that was called necrophilia?
LOL

While I love that on so many levels

Standard christian faith is that he is now alive again and taken up whole into heaven

So it would be more like making love to the undead then making love to the dead :p

Black's not a colour, its the lack of colour :eek:

Personally, I think it's the other way around. I mean...you don't draw on black paper.

But that's beside the point.

Christianity can be seen as a relationship with Jesus, but at the same time, its belief in a divine or otherworldly power makes it a religion.

Athieism doesn't believe in that, thus it is not a religion. It is more like a "non-religion"...Like $cientology!

I thought that was called necrophilia?

Not to affirm one side or the other, but you would have to assume that he was dead and the Christians were incorrect as to his ressurrected nature, which is entirely possible if Jesus was indeed the Christ and an incarnation of the one true God, which neither side has sufficient evidence to prove or disprove.

Not to affirm one side or the other, but you would have to assume that he was dead and the Christians were incorrect as to his ressurrected nature, which is entirely possible if Jesus was indeed the Christ and an incarnation of the one true God, which neither side has sufficient evidence to prove or disprove.
It was just a joke. Please don't overanalyze it.

A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. Well atheism is a belief system, the belief that there is no God. And the way some people debate it, make you wonder if they do worship it.
Well, actually, rather than believe there is no God, most atheists simply abstain from believing one way or another. God is just a non-issue.

But the original post wasn't good for much more than a laugh.

That's really what I was going for, say something ridiculous, have people debate about it for pages and pages, and then just laugh.

I love this forum:D

Well, actually, rather than believe there is no God, most atheists simply abstain from believing one way or another. God is just a non-issue.

Thank you! It's just like pink elephants or unicorns or trolls. There simply is no belief in them, just as there is no belief in a deity.

Although not spiritual in today's sense, Epicurus, Socrates, have been called the fathers of Atheism

Interesting fact, Socrates also influence Plato's Form of Forms, and the Theory of Forms has an increadible amount of influence on modern western thought as it refers to the creator. The Greek philosophers were very spiritual. Most of them debated and argued things with the idea that the gods were very much a part of the natural order of things. Socrates and Plato, with their Theory of Forms, upset the Greek with their polytheistic devotion to the gods. The form of forms, however, could be very much be revered as a source of morality, and thus a spiritual focal point.

It was just a joke. Please don't overanalyze it.

Sorry, I enjoy overanalyzing everything. It makes life fun for me. Besides, humor can be found even overanalytical perspectives on other humor, not to say that I was implying personal humor in my analysis of your own joke. Oh, I am overanalyzing again, aren't I?

Actually this depends on your defintion. By the notion of art it is a coulor, in the same way that by the notion of art the primary coulors are red, yellow and blue. Whereas the notion of science says black is just a description of a absorbsion of all light by a surface, in the same way that the notion of scinece disagrees with art and says the primary coulors are red, blue and green.
The artistic description of black is as a shade, not a colour.

Well, actually, rather than believe there is no God, most atheists simply abstain from believing one way or another. God is just a non-issue.

Wouldn't that make them agnostic?

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. Okay, you guys win there

I should note that that is the first and most important definition.


A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. Well atheism is a belief system, the belief that there is no God. And the way some people debate it, make you wonder if they do worship it.

Worship WHAT? "Such belief and worship" refers to "supernatural powers" in the first definition. I don't care how forcefully atheists debate the matter, forcefulness is not worship.

And a "belief system" is a system of belief. The belief that there is no God is just a single, nonsystemic belief.


The life or condition of a person in a religious order. Once again, certain atheist seem to stick together like it was a big religious following.

"like" does not mean "equatable." I've seen HOMELESS people stick together LIKE it was a big religious following. Hey maybe you think homelessness is a religion?

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. Although not spiritual in today's sense, Epicurus, Socrates, have been called the fathers of Atheism

To be an atheist you only have to not believe in God. There is absolutely nothing about acquiring a "set of values" or "practices" based on the "teachings of a spiritual leader." To equate Epicurus or Socrates as an atheist's Jesus is a stretch, to the say the least. Every Christian has heard of Jesus and follows the teachings laid out by him. I've never even heard of Epicurus and I don't have any "values" or "practices" based on Socrates that I'm aware of.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Some atheists, especially on this forum, debate the non-existence of God with conscientious devotion

Yeah, and every single political debate involves "conscientous devotion" and "zeal." Maybe you're going to start saying Republicanism is a religion? No. Again you are stretching the definition and trying to make it fit by your use of analogy. You know, a train is LIKE a speeding bullet - maybe that means a train IS a bullet! No.

I just got tired of people saying Atheism isn't and you can't convert people to it.

Yeah I get tired of people saying atheism is a religion because they are aware of the bad connotations "religion" has, and want to try to make atheists feel as guilty about it as you do.

"Nothing ever becomes real till it is experienced -- Even a proverb is no Proverb to you till your Life has illustrated it." -- John Keats

Yeah explicit atheism most deffinatly is a "faith" system even if it is not a religion

(though implicit is a bit different)

"Faith" is belief with no evidence. If there is evidence there is no need for faith. My main reason for being an atheist is that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of a god or gods.
I've no need for faith. If I'm driving over a bridge I'm betting it will stay up. It may not. Odds are it will. If I break my leg I go to a doctor to get it fixed. They may not fix it. Odds are they will. The odds don't always pan out but in my lifetime I've found the odds to be the most reliable way of surviving.
Some people may find this odd.

-snip-
...Again you are stretching the definition and trying to make it fit by your use of analogy. You know, a train is LIKE a speeding bullet - maybe that means a train IS a bullet! No....

-snip-
Quality.

To be an atheist you only have to not believe in God. There is absolutely nothing about acquiring a "set of values" or "practices" based on the "teachings of a spiritual leader." To equate Epicurus or Socrates as an atheist's Jesus is a stretch, to the say the least. Every Christian has heard of Jesus and follows the teachings laid out by him. I've never even heard of Epicurus and I don't have any "values" or "practices" based on Socrates that I'm aware of.

Well, Socrates, like most great Greek thinkers, helped to shape the philosophical thought of all of western society. Almost all of our western thought, has been in some way influenced by the thinking of ancient philosophers like Socrates. Most of western society is ignorant, unfortunately, of where their commonly accepted societal norms come from. A history major's work is never done it seems.

Also, I would like to affirm that I was not trying to defeat your point, but merely give a bit of additional knowledge.

IMHO, Athiesm is as much a religion as I am an apple pie.

Yeah, and every single political debate involves "conscientous devotion" and "zeal." Maybe you're going to start saying Republicanism is a religion? No. Again you are stretching the definition and trying to make it fit by your use of analogy.

Well Republicanism can be classified as a religion, much like communism can too. Another poster argued this before, and I'm far too lazy to type what he(or she) said. And as for stretching the definition to make it fit my use, well Atheist can be argued to do the same thing.



"like" does not mean "equatable." I've seen HOMELESS people stick together LIKE it was a big religious following. Hey maybe you think homelessness is a religion?

See above.


I've gotta go now, so no more posts for me:(

"Faith" is belief with no evidence. If there is evidence there is no need for faith. My main reason for being an atheist is that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of a god or gods.
I've no need for faith. If I'm driving over a bridge I'm betting it will stay up. It may not. Odds are it will. If I break my leg I go to a doctor to get it fixed. I don't sit around and hope a god fixes it. They may not fix it. Odds are they will. The odds don't always pan out but in my lifetime I've found the odds to be the most reliable way of surviving.
Then you are an implicit vs explicit atheist

One is an active belief in no god (met more then a few of these)

The other is implicit ... your default is "no" unless proven otherwise ... and there has been no evidence to disuade you from your default position

That is absolutly understandable in fact I am an implicit atheist as well

(sometimes these are called hard and soft atheism as well)

"Faith" is belief with no evidence. If there is evidence there is no need for faith. My main reason for being an atheist is that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of a god or gods.
I've no need for faith. If I'm driving over a bridge I'm betting it will stay up. It may not. Odds are it will. If I break my leg I go to a doctor to get it fixed. I don't sit around and hope a god fixes it. They may not fix it. Odds are they will. The odds don't always pan out but in my lifetime I've found the odds to be the most reliable way of surviving.

Actually, there is just as much evidence affirming the existance of God as there is affirming His nonexistance. You may believe that you have evidence to believe in your own Atheistic ideology, but this is no different from a Christian claiming the same. You have faith in what you see as evidence of the lack of an overriding power in the universe, and as such you have faith that there is no God. In truth, you have no way to know with absolute certainty one way or the other. Enjoy your game of roulette. I hear they are playing Russian style.

Wouldn't that make them agnostic?
No, agnostics are seekers. Atheists aren't even trying.

Then you are an implicit vs explicit atheist

One is an active belief in no god (met more then a few of these)

The other is implicit ... your default is "no" unless proven otherwise ... and there has been no evidence to disuade you from your default position

That is absolutly understandable in fact I am an implicit atheist as well

(sometimes these are called hard and soft atheism as well)
Pleased to meetcha
:)
Er....Is "implicit atheism" hard or soft?

"Faith" is belief with no evidence. If there is evidence there is no need for faith. My main reason for being an atheist is that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of a god or gods.
Beliefs occur because of evidence, be it physical evidence, witness testamony, or something from within. Your definition works, though, in that faith continues on long after the evidence for an initial belief is come and gone.

Pleased to meetcha
:)
Er....Is "implicit atheism" hard or soft?
implicit = soft
Explicit = hard

Impliit (and this is an extremly hasty clarification so if I make a mistake or mis-represent dont bother calling me on it)


Implicit is more of a default, you dont believe just because you have not been shown anything to warent your belief.

Explicit is an active belief that no deity could exist

Implicit often (in my case) goes hand in hand with agnosticsm (the lines are very blured there)

Well Republicanism can be classified as a religion, much like communism can too.

Fine. Republicanism is a religion. Communism is a religion. Atheism is a religion. Working at the post office is a religion. Driving a car is a religion. Masturbation is a religion.

If everything and anything is a religion... then nothing is. Fact is, under the definition of religion you posted, republicanism and atheism and masturbation - a commonly found combination actually - are not religions.

And as for stretching the definition to make it fit my use, well Atheist can be argued to do the same thing.

Eh, what Atheist? Do you think two wrongs make a right? Whether this strawman atheist of yours stretches definitions is completely irrelevant to whether the definition of religion you posted means that atheism is a religion. Fact is, it doesn't.

Well, Socrates, like most great Greek thinkers, helped to shape the philosophical thought of all of western society. Almost all of our western thought, has been in some way influenced by the thinking of ancient philosophers like Socrates. Most of western society is ignorant, unfortunately, of where their commonly accepted societal norms come from. A history major's work is never done it seems.

Yeah, I guess that's true. Always tend to underrate those ancient Greeks.

Although it is one thing to shape philosophical thought, and another to be classified as a very specific "teacher" whom specific individuals are "following."

No, agnostics are seekers. Atheists aren't even trying.
Depends Explicit yeah they are not trying so hard but Implicit is different

And when you think of it the agnosic belief is that you can not PROVE a deity one way or another so really can they be seeking all to hard when they feel there is nothing to look for?

That's really what I was going for, say something ridiculous, have people debate about it for pages and pages, and then just laugh.

I love this forum:D

That equates to trolling; which is against the rules. Saying something to purposely upset others is basically what you did, at least with this thread. Continue to do it, and we'll be seeing each other again in the near future, which I'd prefer not to do, but if you continue to troll, more serious consequences will follow. Got it? Good.

Oh, and this thread is now locked.