NationStates Jolt Archive

James 2

1. Dear brothers, how can you claim that you belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, if you show favoritism to rich people and look down on poor people?
2. If a man comes into your church dressed in expensive clothes and with valuable gold rings on his fingers, and at the same moment another man comes in who is poor and dressed in threadbare clothes,
3. and you make a lot of fuss over the rich man and give him the best seat in the house and say to the poor man, ``You can stand over there if you like, or else sit on the floor''--well,
4. judging a man by his wealth shows that you are guided by wrong motives.
5. Listen to me, dear brothers: God has chosen poor people to be rich in faith, and the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs, for that is the gift God has promised to all those who love him.
6. And yet, of the two strangers, you have despised the poor man. Don't you realize that it is usually the rich men who pick on you and drag you into court?
7. And all too often they are the ones who laugh at Jesus Christ, whose noble name you bear.
8. Yes indeed, it is good when you truly obey our Lord's command, ``You must love and help your neighbors just as much as you love and take care of yourself.''
9. But you are breaking this law of our Lord's when you favor the rich and fawn over them; it is sin.
10. And the person who keeps every law of God, but makes one little slip, is just as guilty as the person who has broken every law there is.
11. For the God who said you must not marry a woman who already has a husband, also said you must not murder, so even though you have not broken the marriage laws by committing adultery, but have murdered someone, you have entirely broken God's laws and stand utterly guilty before him.
12. You will be judged on whether or not you are doing what Christ wants you to. So watch what you do and what you think;
13. for there will be no mercy to those who have shown no mercy. But if you have been merciful, then God's mercy toward you will win out over his judgment against you.
14. Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone?
15. If you have a friend who is in need of food and clothing,
16. and you say to him, ``Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat hearty,'' and then don't give him clothes or food, what good does that do?
17. So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. You must also do good to prove that you have it. Faith that doesn't show itself by good works is no faith at all--it is dead and useless.
18. But someone may well argue, ``You say the way to God is by faith alone, plus nothing; well, I say that good works are important too, for without good works you can't prove whether you have faith or not; but anyone can see that I have faith by the way I act.''
19. Are there still some among you who hold that ``only believing'' is enough? Believing in one God? Well, remember that the demons believe this too--so strongly that they tremble in terror!
20. Fool! When will you ever learn that ``believing'' is useless without doing what God wants you to? Faith that does not result in good deeds is not real faith.
21. Don't you remember that even our father Abraham was declared good because of what he did, when he was willing to obey God, even if it meant offering his son Isaac to die on the altar?
22. You see, he was trusting God so much that he was willing to do whatever God told him to; his faith was made complete by what he did, by his actions, his good deeds.
23. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say, that Abraham trusted God, and the Lord declared him good in God's sight, and he was even called ``the friend of God.''
24. So you see, a man is saved by what he does, as well as by what he believes.
25. Rahab, the prostitute, is another example of this. She was saved because of what she did when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road.
26. Just as the body is dead when there is no spirit in it, so faith is dead if it is not the kind that results in good deeds.


Does not sound like any Republican, Democrat nor Libertarian I know.

So?

So?

Yes, so.

I think we all fall down in some way or another; I think the question isn't so much where we fall down, but whether its because of malice intent or a noble idea that results in a negative spin off - trying to do ones best to help someone, but actually cause more problems than it fixes.

Agreed, to the beginning of the post/verse.

As to the commentary, the general concept of social justice seems to apply more to the Democrats than either of the other two.

Of course, the verse refers to individual charity, which is what the Republicans and Libertarians would rely on.

However, the Democrats would certainly do nothing to inhibit individual charity, so this can hardly count as a point to the free-marketers.

But yeah. It applies to us as people, not to government bodies. I've known various people who subscribe to and actually live this; they have various political beliefs.

Agreed, to the beginning of the post/verse.

As to the commentary, the general concept of social justice seems to apply more to the Democrats than either of the other two.

Of course, the verse refers to individual charity, which is what the Republicans and Libertarians would rely on.

However, the Democrats would certainly do nothing to inhibit individual charity, so this can hardly count as a point to the free-marketers.

But yeah. It applies to us as people, not to government bodies. I've known various people who subscribe to and actually live this; they have various political beliefs.

Well, one could look at the Republicans stance that making people dependent on welfare, living a subsistance existance isn't fair on them or the tax payer; you could say that Republicans, to a varying degree, wish to encourage people to be more independent and stand on their own two feet.

Unfortunately, however, the way they market their message tends to come off as a little more rough than it needs to be - maybe they need a better PR person for their social welfare policies; the old, "we're trying to turn the welfare system into a hand up as to allow people to climb the ladder of opportunity rather than giving hand outs, resulting in a cycle of welfare dependency".

It will take more than PR. We need solutions, not more useless rhetoric. One thing is for sure: There better be enough jobs for everyone if they seek to end welfare. And I don't see that happening.

Trusting to individual charity is absurd - we will all, when the crunch comes, be more charitable to ourselves than anyone else.

Socio-economic inequality over hundreds of years means that deliberate, planned and sustained efforts need to be continually made to build equal access to health, employment, education, housing, transport etc.

Trusting to individual charity is absurd - we will all, when the crunch comes, be more charitable to ourselves than anyone else.

Socio-economic inequality over hundreds of years means that deliberate, planned and sustained efforts need to be continually made to build equal access to health, employment, education, housing, transport etc.



True words of wisdom, indeed.

I'm glad to see that posted. So many evangelical Christians think that just because faith alone saves us that it means they don't have to do good works. But good works is clearly the product of faith. If your faith doesn't lead to good works then your faith is dead.

Oh, just out of curiosity, what version is that. It looks pretty modern but isn't NIV.

As a side note, I consider myself Republican, but I'm Christian first. I'm Republican because third parties and independents simply can't get elected. I only agree with Republicans on half the issues, but I would like to try to reform the party from within. I know good caring Christians from both parties. Many of them have nearly identical views on the issues. I lean Republican, but I vote for whatever canidate is best for the people (which often means the Democrate).

I'm Republican because third parties and independents simply can't get elected.

With that attitude, they never will be. Why join a party if you don't agree with most of its values?

I'm not Christian, but that doesn't stop me from donating and doing good. Just because I want to abolish welfare doesn't mean I want to stop helping the poor.

Wise words indeed. One of the allusions is a little absurd though; Abraham giving up his son being a noble action? Seems rather out of place there in a passage on living a faith through benevolent response to mankind. Anyway.

I doubt that this one gets much attention, unfortunately. Not being Gospel scripture, it seems to get swamped by John and Levitical law, which tend to get banded about for any old interpretation. I swear, putting those in your bible was a big mistake...

I'm glad to see that posted. So many evangelical Christians think that just because faith alone saves us that it means they don't have to do good works. But good works is clearly the product of faith. If your faith doesn't lead to good works then your faith is dead.

Oh, just out of curiosity, what version is that. It looks pretty modern but isn't NIV.

As a side note, I consider myself Republican, but I'm Christian first. I'm Republican because third parties and independents simply can't get elected. I only agree with Republicans on half the issues, but I would like to try to reform the party from within. I know good caring Christians from both parties. Many of them have nearly identical views on the issues. I lean Republican, but I vote for whatever canidate is best for the people (which often means the Democrate).


This is from The Living Bible. Simple English for those having a hard time understanding the King James version.

Also, I vote for 3rd Party, even though they can't win right now. But maybe someday? I agree with what you say about Republicans and Democrats. What else can any average voter do? :(

With that attitude, they never will be. Why join a party if you don't agree with most of its values?

I'm not Christian, but that doesn't stop me from donating and doing good. Just because I want to abolish welfare doesn't mean I want to stop helping the poor.


Let's try this, let's try that, hmmmm..... let's just go back to the way it was. No, wait..... ummmm.....

I hope you do get your wish! And instead of paying to feed the poor in subsidized housing you can pay to feed the poor in the overcramped prisons. Brilliant! :eek:

Anything with a beneficial outcome, I VOTED FOR! Anything with a disastrous outcome, I VOTED AGAINST!

Socio-economic inequality over hundreds of years means that deliberate, planned and sustained efforts need to be continually made to build equal access to health, employment, education, housing, transport etc.

Health and Education are the two most important factors. Once you have those two being unemployed or not affording a good quality of housing is solely your fault given you had the opportunity to do better.

Health and Education are the two most important factors. Once you have those two being unemployed or not affording a good quality of housing is solely your fault given you had the opportunity to do better.


Really? And this education you are paying for, is it for Harvard, Princeton or the University of Timbukwho? Who would get better recognition, the rich college graduate or the poor one?

Really? And this education you are paying for, is it for Harvard, Princeton or the University of Timbukwho? Who would get better recognition, the rich college graduate or the poor one?
Depends on the field honestly

*snip*
22. You see, he was trusting God so much that he was willing to do whatever God told him to; his faith was made complete by what he did, by his actions, his good deeds.

24. So you see, a man is saved by what he does, as well as by what he believes.
25. Rahab, the prostitute, is another example of this. She was saved because of what she did when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road.
26. Just as the body is dead when there is no spirit in it, so faith is dead if it is not the kind that results in good deeds.
I agree with this, in as far as the actions we do are a direct reflection of our inner mind, beliefs and learned behavior. The analogy of spirit/body is particularly appropriate, too, as deeds are the physical form that our beliefs take.

I agree with this, in as far as the actions we do are a direct reflection of our inner mind, beliefs and learned behavior. The analogy of spirit/body is particularly appropriate, too, as deeds are the physical form that our beliefs take.


Absolutely! And the consequences of all that refrain from this in their physical form, will have their beliefs corrupted and distorted as a result.

Depends on the field honestly

So having friends in high places would would have no bearing on the outcome?

Being heavily involved in ministry, I interact alot with others who are heavily involved in ministry (cus most ministry takes a team effort). So, I can honestly say I know quite a few people who live up to the standards of the book of James (and the rest of the bible). Most are republican or independent, a few are democrats.

Being heavily involved in ministry, I interact alot with others who are heavily involved in ministry (cus most ministry takes a team effort). So, I can honestly say I know quite a few people who live up to the standards of the book of James (and the rest of the bible). Most are republican or independent, a few are democrats.


Good for you! You are blessed to be in such good company, as they are as well. :)