NationStates Jolt Archive

Step 1 -- Get your hands on a permanent red marking pen, like a Sharpie.
Step 2 -- Find the slogan "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the back of your dollar bills.
Step 3 -- With your red pen, draw a circle and slash over "GOD," like this:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4150/100dollarbillgod3lu.jpg

Step 4 -- Repeat Step 3 with every dollar bill that ever comes into your possession (carry your red pen around with you).

I have made this my ritual. I will no longer sacrifice my integrity by dealing in currency containing a message that I strongly object to. Instead, I will force religious people who recognize no bounds between church and state to sacrifice their integrity by spreading my message around, and I will make them see the injustice.

If every atheist in America does this, then every dollar bill would have an atheist message on it--that is, until "IN GOD WE TRUST" is removed.

ACtually my friend and I did something similar, we just put "ESS" at the end of God, but that has nothing to do with atheism and it got too tedious to put that on every bill we came across.

In order to help relieve the tediousness of it, it helps to have a wicked smile on your face as you do it, and pay attention to the reactions you get when you buy goods with your cash.

Well, i believe defacing a dollar bill is a fedral crime (at least it is in Australia if you destroy money) BUT I LIKE IT and if i lived in America its what id be doing.

Good luck in your quest

Well, i believe defacing a dollar bill is a fedral crime (at least it is in Australia if you destroy money) BUT I LIKE IT and if i lived in America its what id be doing.

Good luck in your questIt isn't a crime. I wish it would be, because then it would show the courage of atheists. According to American law, defacing cash is only illegal if you do it "with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued."

nope,it's illegal. I found an interesting discussion on the topic here. (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:juPMBvB-g4UJ:www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9613.htm+defacing+a+bill+is+a+federal+crime&hl=en)

Here's a snippet:
Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their address is: United States Secret Service, 1800 G Street, N. W., Washington, DC 20223.
----------------------
09/11/95

WOODSTOCK, New York -- A couple who habitually brand their one dollar bills with a marijuana leaf and the quote: "I grew hemp," were recently contacted by Woodstock police acting on behalf of the Secret Service. Joy Beckerman and James Horn, owners of the Heaven On Earth Hemp Store, report that the police came to them with Xerox copies of stamped dollar bills and a written warning from the secret service specifying that the practice of defacing United States currency was a federal crime. Although Horn admits that the local officers were laid back about the whole issue, he claims that the notice stated that the U.S. Attorney General would be contacted and charges would be pressed if the couple didn't immediately stop the stamping.

While Horn fully admits to stamping many of his dollar bills with the pro-hemp message, he is alarmed that the federal government seems to be targeting him alone. Since Heaven On Earth sells the "I grew hemp" stampers, the couple argues that the government has no way of proving that the bills in question were defaced by them.

Horn says that he will continue to both sell stampers and stamp some of his one dollar bills despite the warning. The couple see their action as a way of informing the community of hemp's industrial uses and its historical background as an integral American crop.

For more information, please contact either Joy Beckerman or James Horn of Heaven On Earth @ (914) 679-4990.

Until someone is charged with a crime for stamping something on a dollar bill, I won't be convinced that it is a crime. The law clearly states that you got to have "intent to render [dollar bills] unfit to be reissued." The Secret Service can suck my ass.

Eh, actually there's a lot of laws, most of which are outdated, that are pretty much ignored. For example, somwhere in the U.S. it's illegal for bullfrogs to croak after 10 pm.

And upon veiwing the crossed-out God, Pat Robertson and the fundies will all have a change of heart and go away. :rolleyes:

And upon veiwing the crossed-out God, Pat Robertson and the fundies will all have a change of heart and go away. :rolleyes:That would be a crying shame; Pat Robertson has been the greatest hero for atheists.

You're confusing atheist with secularist. (I may be confusing the latter for a real word.)

You're confusing atheist with secularist. (I may be confusing the latter for a real word.)OK, whatever.

OK, whatever.

If that's your attitude, then how is your approach any different to Christians? Surely separation of church and state, and not enforcement of a different religious belief (atheism), is the ideal?

If that's your attitude, then how is your approach any different to Christians? Surely separation of church and state, and not enforcement of a different religious belief (atheism), is the ideal?Of course. I would fight tooth and nail to keep atheism from being government policy, and I would be the first to object to an atheist slogan being officially printed on dollar bills. I know the distinctions between atheists and secularists, but it will be atheists and not secularist Christians who will do what I am doing.

Of course. I would fight tooth and nail to keep atheism from being government policy, and I would be the first to object to an atheist slogan being officially printed on dollar bills. I know the distinctions between atheists and secularists, but it will be atheists and not secularist Christians who will do what I am doing.

So excluding them from the possibility of helping is wise...how? Whites marched with Martin Luther King, men protested with the Suffragettes, lords lobbied with the Chartists. There are many, many secularist Christians, and I'd have thought they'd be more likely to contribute to working towards separation if they thought their efforts were welcomed, and if such energies were directed at constitutional propriety, and not simply tearing down Christianity's place.

Haha, funny stuff. I totally agree with removing anything religious from the government, but isn't it illegal to write on money. I might do it anyway, just because.

So excluding them from the possibility of helping is wise...how? Whites marched with Martin Luther King, men protested with the Suffragettes, lords lobbied with the Chartists. There are many, many secularist Christians, and I'd have thought they'd be more likely to contribute to working towards separation if they thought their efforts were welcomed, and if such energies were directed at constitutional propriety, and not simply tearing down Christianity's place.I could be wrong, but I don't figure that secularist Christians would be easily willing to write a null symbol over "GOD." They may be willing to cross out the slogan, but that's all.

Haha, funny stuff. I totally agree with removing anything religious from the government, but isn't it illegal to write on money. I might do it anyway, just because.I would only recommend doing it if you are proud of who you are and you are willing to take a stand for what you believe. If you are a pansy, then I suggest you don't. It shouldn't deter you if you think it is illegal, but it isn't illegal unless you have intent to make the dollar bills unfit for circulation, which you don't. You want as many people as possible to see it.

I would only recommend doing it if you are proud of who you are and you are willing to take a stand for what you believe. If you are a pansy, then I suggest you don't. It shouldn't deter you if you think it is illegal, but it isn't illegal unless you have intent to make the dollar bills unfit for circulation, which you don't. You want as many people as possible to see it.

Well, I guess I will get started then *looks for marker*

Of course. I would fight tooth and nail to keep atheism from being government policy, and I would be the first to object to an atheist slogan being officially printed on dollar bills. I know the distinctions between atheists and secularists, but it will be atheists and not secularist Christians who will do what I am doing.

Quite right- you have to take these things to the opposite extreme sometimes in order to achieve a happy medium.

It is stupid stuff like this that make people insist that Athiesm is a religion. I rather thought the point of denying God's existence was to remove pointless rituals that serve no true function from your lives?
If you can't fight them join them then. From now on, I am going to write "J35U5 PWNZ J00!!" on every dollar in my possession.

Step 1 -- Get your hands on a permanent red marking pen, like a Sharpie.
Step 2 -- Find the slogan "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the back of your dollar bills.
Step 3 -- With your red pen, draw a circle and slash over "GOD," like this:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4150/100dollarbillgod3lu.jpg

Step 4 -- Repeat Step 3 with every dollar bill that ever comes into your possession (carry your red pen around with you).

I have made this my ritual. I will no longer sacrifice my integrity by dealing in currency containing a message that I strongly object to. Instead, I will force religious people who recognize no bounds between church and state to sacrifice their integrity by spreading my message around, and I will make them see the injustice.

If every atheist in America does this, then every dollar bill would have an atheist message on it--that is, until "IN GOD WE TRUST" is removed.

Whatever floats your boat. Or you could just live and let live. Yeesh.

I personally prefer writing/drawing other things on my money.

It is stupid stuff like this that make people insist that Athiesm is a religion. I rather thought the point of denying God's existence was to remove pointless rituals that serve no true function from your lives?
If you can't fight them join them then. From now on, I am going to write "J35U5 PWNZ J00!!" on every dollar in my possession.
Fiddlebottoms, you make my hear happy.

Haha, funny stuff. I totally agree with removing anything religious from the government, but isn't it illegal to write on money. I might do it anyway, just because.
Who cares about legality... I do illegal things all the time! ;D



Oops.... I mean..... *looks around shiftily and ducks into nearby alleyway*

(jk)

I'm not too worried about this gaining any momentum.

The relatively small # of assholes that belive this and will waste their time doing it, dont come into contact with too much of our currency anyway.

Maybe when mommy and daddy send the check to pay their wasted college tuition or car insurance, they could jot some witty protest in the memo section.

Whatever floats your boat. Or you could just live and let live. Yeesh.

I personally prefer writing/drawing other things on my money.

Random names and configurations of 10 digits is always humorous...

I'm not too worried about this gaining any momentum.

The relatively small # of assholes that belive this and will waste their time doing it, dont come into contact with too much of our currency anyway.

Maybe when mommy and daddy send the check to pay their wasted college tuition or car insurance, they could jot some witty protest in the memo section.
Truly, you're comment has superseded mine. I bow before the master of come-back assholery. Could you send me a picture that I may build a shrine to honor you?

Step 1 -- Get your hands on a permanent red marking pen, like a Sharpie.
Step 2 -- Find the slogan "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the back of your dollar bills.
Step 3 -- With your red pen, draw a circle and slash over "GOD," like this:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4150/100dollarbillgod3lu.jpg

Step 4 -- Repeat Step 3 with every dollar bill that ever comes into your possession (carry your red pen around with you).

I have made this my ritual. I will no longer sacrifice my integrity by dealing in currency containing a message that I strongly object to. Instead, I will force religious people who recognize no bounds between church and state to sacrifice their integrity by spreading my message around, and I will make them see the injustice.

If every atheist in America does this, then every dollar bill would have an atheist message on it--that is, until "IN GOD WE TRUST" is removed.


thats actually quite a pathetic waste of time, to be honest.

I agree.
If you have a problem with your currency:
Stage a political campaign
Get signatures on a petition
Pressure congress...you get my drift. The only thing this does is make the average american think that atheists like wasting time by defacing money.
FYI: most money is, IIRC, used in tranactions and never actually comes into contact with human beings.

If you can't fight them join them then. From now on, I am going to write "J35U5 PWNZ J00!!" on every dollar in my possession.

Why not pit 10 'J35U5 PWNZ J00!!' notes against 10 'In God We Trust' notes in mortal combat to settle the Atheism vs. Theism debate once and for all? We could tie each not to the back of a viscou, genetically modified rodent and leave them to fight it out!

Truly, you're comment has superseded mine. I bow before the master of come-back assholery. Could you send me a picture that I may build a shrine to honor you?


I'm confused, my dandy friend. Are you with me, or against me?

I'm confused, my dandy friend. Are you with me, or against me?
With you, for the moment anyway. I bow down and hope to someday learn to rival the depth and accuracy of your verbal malfeasance. Truly, you have humbled me with your razor sharp tongue and pointy sharp teeth.

*applauds Fiddlebottoms*

I have made this my ritual. I will no longer sacrifice my integrity by dealing in currency containing a message that I strongly object to. Instead, I will force religious people who recognize no bounds between church and state to sacrifice their integrity by spreading my message around, and I will make them see the injustice



So its ok to act out if we do not agree with something? If thats the case look out science books im crossing out evolution! oh and I'm going to mass. and crossing out the gay marriage laws. Yeah, sounds fun. Then after that I am going to goto walmart and cross it out too, because big business is something i object too! You see, there is a more effective way than defacing public property to get your message across. Petitions for example, or voting or what ever. But the way you are doing it is proving the ignorance of your kind.

It's more fun to turn Sir Wilfrid Laurier into Mr. Spock on the Canadian five-dollar bill.

It's more fun to turn Sir Wilfrid Laurier into Mr. Spock on the Canadian five-dollar bill.
I must do this, now! Quick, to the Canadian border!

It's more fun to turn Sir Wilfrid Laurier into Mr. Spock on the Canadian five-dollar bill.
Despite not ever seeng a Canadian five-dollar bill I agree with this statement completely.

With you, for the moment anyway. I bow down and hope to someday learn to rival the depth and accuracy of your verbal malfeasance. Truly, you have humbled me with your razor sharp tongue and pointy sharp teeth.

Alrighty, then.

I've re-read my post in question and I'm liking more and more.

So its ok to act out if we do not agree with something? If thats the case look out science books im crossing out evolution! oh and I'm going to mass. and crossing out the gay marriage laws. Yeah, sounds fun. Then after that I am going to goto walmart and cross it out too, because big business is something i object too! You see, there is a more effective way than defacing public property to get your message across. Petitions for example, or voting or what ever. But the way you are doing it is proving the ignorance of your kind.I'm afraid there isn't a more effective way to express my opinion. Petitions and ballots do hardly a damn thing when I am in the oppressed minority. And it isn't just expressing my opinion. It is correcting an opinion that I otherwise have no choice but to facilitate in spreading. I object to spreading the slogan, "IN GOD WE TRUST" whenever I go shopping.

I object to spreading the slogan, "IN GOD WE TRUST" whenever I go shopping.
Hey, here is a solution, do what I do and only look at thee numbers. You see that 20 there on the happy, green peice of paper? That is all that matters.
If it weren't for people bitching about "In God We Trust", I'd never really know that it was on there.

I believe that it is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

Eh, actually there's a lot of laws, most of which are outdated, that are pretty much ignored. For example, somwhere in the U.S. it's illegal for bullfrogs to croak after 10 pm.
My guess is that it's Utah!

Hey, here is a solution, do what I do and only look at thee numbers. You see that 20 there on the happy, green peice of paper? That is all that matters.
If it weren't for people bitching about "In God We Trust", I'd never really know that it was on there.I could also close my eyes to all the infringements of my rights and freedom ever imposed by the religious right. I could ignore everyone who ever says, "Hey, pal, it is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion." That wouldn't be a solution, though, would it? I grew up in a church and a Christian school that convinced me that America is based on Christianity. How did they do it? They pointed to "under God" in the pledge of allegience. They pointed to "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every single dollar bill and coin. They capitalized on those slogans, and "God Bless America." I hope sometime in the future some kid looks at a dollar bill and sees "God" crossed out. Then he would realize that not everyone thinks that America is a Christian system.

I could also close my eyes to all the infringements of my rights and freedom ever imposed by the religious right. I could ignore everyone who ever says, "Hey, pal, it is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion." That wouldn't be a solution, though, would it? I grew up in a church and a Christian school that convinced me that America is based on Christianity. How did they do it? They pointed to "under God" in the pledge of allegience. They pointed to "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every single dollar bill and coin. They capitalized on those slogans, and "God Bless America." I hope sometime in the future some kid looks at a dollar bill and sees "God" crossed out. Then he would realize that not everyone thinks that America is a Christian system.
Which kinda assumes how this nameless kid in the future thinks.

Which kinda assumes how this nameless kid in the future thinks.I don't think the assumption is too much of a stretch.

I don't think the assumption is too much of a stretch.
Most likely not. But it's a ham-handed drag for those who'd already arrived at the truth of the matter of their own volition.

Most likely not. But it's a ham-handed drag for those who'd already arrived at the truth of the matter of their own volition.OK, I'll take your word for it.

I could also close my eyes to all the infringements of my rights and freedom ever imposed by the religious right.
and so you feel it's ok to force your believes down my throat just because you were raised Christian and no longer want to be associated with that upbringing? Because you feel like you're getting violated you're going to violate me? Ever heard of "two wrongs don't make a right"?

I could ignore everyone who ever says, "Hey, pal, it is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion." That wouldn't be a solution, though, would it?
why wouldn't it be a solution? i do very well ignoring people who want to throw their believes on me (i.e. Jahovah's Witness and Mormons who come knocking every Sunday)
I grew up in a church and a Christian school that convinced me that America is based on Christianity. How did they do it? They pointed to "under God" in the pledge of allegience. They pointed to "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every single dollar bill and coin. They capitalized on those slogans,
Must be a different church system... i've been to several types and i don't recall any of them harping on Under God and In God We Trust.
and "God Bless America." What's wrong w/ that? Who else could bless America? How about just "Bless America" would that appease you? or Allah Bless America, or Buddha Bless America? Are any of those ok?
I hope sometime in the future some kid looks at a dollar bill and sees "God" crossed out. Then he would realize that not everyone thinks that America is a Christian system.
I hope that in the future, "some kid" who looks at a dollar bill and sees the God crossed out already realizes before seeing the God crossed out that not everyone believes in God (or the Christian version of God). You hafta realize, America was founded by Christians. And the gov't is here to appease the MAJORITY of the masses, not the minority.

America is a Christian "system", just like all those states in the Middle East who believe Allah is their God. As a matter of fact, are there any countries in the world who doesn't believe in a diety?

Hmm. I've never thought of this. I like it. Great idea.

The cafeteria workers at my high school mark the 5's, 10's, and 20's with highlighters after checking to see if the bills are fake; so if that's not illegal then this wouldn't be either.

and so you feel it's ok to force your believes down my throat just because you were raised Christian and no longer want to be associated with that upbringing? Because you feel like you're getting violated you're going to violate me?Yes, yes, absolutely!

why wouldn't it be a solution? i do very well ignoring people who want to throw their believes on me (i.e. Jahovah's Witness and Mormons who come knocking every Sunday)If atheists ignore those who chip away at their rights, then the future of atheists is doomed.

Must be a different church system... i've been to several types and i don't recall any of them harping on Under God and In God We Trust. Such churches are many. Since I have become an atheist, I have seen Christians call my integrity into question since I use cash with, "IN GOD WE TRUST," on it.

What's wrong w/ that? Who else could bless America? How about just "Bless America" would that appease you? or Allah Bless America, or Buddha Bless America? Are any of those ok?No. America lives only under the authority of the Constitution, and nobody blesses it.

I hope that in the future, "some kid" who looks at a dollar bill and sees the God crossed out already realizes before seeing the God crossed out that not everyone believes in God (or the Christian version of God).When I was a kid, I didn't realize that there was anybody who seriously thought that America was anything but a Christian system.

You hafta realize, America was founded by Christians. And the gov't is here to appease the MAJORITY of the masses, not the minority. America is a Christian "system", just like all those states in the Middle East who believe Allah is their God. As a matter of fact, are there any countries in the world who doesn't believe in a diety?
I want you to look at this cartoon:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7181/jefferson9jo.jpg

Like I said, America lives only under the authority of the Constitution. And religion is alluded to twice in the Constitution-- both times to restrict it from the government (no religious tests, and no religious laws). Nothing Christian is mentioned in the Constitution, except "In the Year of Our Lord" to give a date. That is all.

Yes, yes, absolutely!
*shrug* then i'll just ignore it like everyone else throwing their shit at me.

If atheists ignore those who chip away at their rights, then the future of atheists is doomed.
a bit of pessimistic(sp) view don't you think? on a side note, i wouldn't be surprised if you lived in California....

Such churches are many. Since I have become an atheist, I have seen Christians call my integrity into question since I use cash with, "IN GOD WE TRUST," on it.
i find this interesting... If someone tries to "question your integrity" because of money w/ In God We Trust on it, tell that dumbfuck that there isn't any type of money that doesn't have it imprinted on it and it's not your fault. And if they really believe you're being a hypocrite for using money w/ said terminology, they really are dumb, and i wish that people could die from stupidity.

No. America lives only under the authority of the Constitution, and nobody blesses it.
we'll hafta agree to disagree. Even though Christianity isn't the "official" religion, the founders of this country were strong believers of the faith. Hence all the God stuff. (either that, or like what happened in the 50s w/ Under God being added to the Pledge)...

Either way, there is a strong religious presence.

When I was a kid, I didn't realize that there was anybody who seriously thought that America was anything but a Christian system.


I want you to look at this cartoon:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7181/jefferson9jo.jpg

Like I said, America lives only under the authority of the Constitution. And religion is alluded to twice in the Constitution-- both times to restrict it from the government (no religious tests, and no religious laws). Nothing Christian is mentioned in the Constitution, except "In the Year of Our Lord" to give a date. That is all.
Nice cartoon. Still doesn't mean that America wasn't founded by Christians, just that it wasn't founded based on the bible, and states that there should be no religous laws.

Well, i believe defacing a dollar bill is a fedral crime (at least it is in Australia if you destroy money) BUT I LIKE IT and if i lived in America its what id be doing.

Good luck in your quest

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=77334


"Is it illegal to destroy American currency? It is my impression that
it is only illegal to modify currency and try to pass it fraudulently.
Please provide links to official documentation on this issue."
...
"You are correct, that the only criminal statute regulating the
destruction or defacement of U.S. currency requires fraudulent intent."

nope,it's illegal. I found an interesting discussion on the topic here. (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:juPMBvB-g4UJ:www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9613.htm+defacing+a+bill+is+a+federal+crime&hl=en)

Here's a snippet:
Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.



What he's doing would not be a crime in this instance.

I got one that had god crossed out through the Wendy's drive through this weekend! woo!

See, I think my managers would probably fire me if I took the time to write on every bill I got my hands on. I'd be doing very little else. But privately, with money not related to my job other than by the fact that that's what allowed me to get it from the bank, I will be glad to stick it to the idiots who think that's our national motto. Un, hello? Ever heard "E Pluribus Unum?" Yeah, that's it, smarties.

I will begin to tell my other-religioned friends, as well.

its ilegal here in britain if you deface the currency (well if you deface the queen)

but they can't hang us anymore so what they coing to do

this post has given me the urge to write in God we trust on every 5,10, 20, 50, and 100 pound note i come across. you gave me a bit of an idea there didn't you? although that doesn't mean i will...but i'll consider it next time i'm annoyed.

can you strengthen the pound by destroying currency? i always wondered that...

In We Trust just doesn't have the same ring...and I think it's illegal to deface currency. Still, unless you consider it acceptable for religious people to write the word God on things, it seems kind of intolerant.

How about "In Trust" or "We Trust"?

How about "In Trust" or "We Trust"?

Personally, I'd just get rid of it. We didn't have it on there for the first 80 years or so, and we turned out fine.

I'm afraid there isn't a more effective way to express my opinion. Petitions and ballots do hardly a damn thing when I am in the oppressed minority. And it isn't just expressing my opinion. It is correcting an opinion that I otherwise have no choice but to facilitate in spreading. I object to spreading the slogan, "IN GOD WE TRUST" whenever I go shopping.

Use a credit card or debit card. No more nasty cash to handle.

Maybe instead of just crossing it out, write "cash" over it? Makes more sense, n'est-ce pas?
"In CASH We Trust"

Since everyone ignored it the first time, I will repeat

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

Repeat after me

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

I haven't read everything in this topic. But i agree with the fact that such religious mumbojumbo can't be printed on money or anything else of the state for that matter. It allways annoys me like hell if i hear the us president say something like : "may god bless america". A democratic goverment should be neutral in religion. If it isn't, then u don't have a true democracy. And for as far as i know, the us dollars are one of the only bills in the world that have such religious slogans on it. Look at the euro's, do you see anything on them?

http://euro.fgov.be/practical/notes/images/100v.jpg

http://euro.fgov.be/practical/notes/images/500v.jpg

You trust your money to God?

I'm not too worried about this gaining any momentum.

The relatively small # of assholes that belive this and will waste their time doing it, dont come into contact with too much of our currency anyway.

Maybe when mommy and daddy send the check to pay their wasted college tuition or car insurance, they could jot some witty protest in the memo section.

So what makes us assholes? We see a problem, a direct action that opposes the 1st amendment and we protest it, and we're assholes? I don't understand. Were the people protesting to give african american's the right to vote because of the constitutional phrase "all men are created equal" assholes? :confused:

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion
Amen.

-snip-
I can tell this is starting to get to you. The reason is you don't understand. You can't understand. The mindset of other people is beyond you; why don't they think like you do? The way you do makes sense.

Listen. You have to understand that what drives your faith is a persuasion that what you experience can be understood if you think in a certain way. And while that is true, there are other things that other people can experience and understand that require a different kind of thinking. You can't think in one way all of the time, nor can you expect everybody else to do so. They are simply adopting the methodology that suits a given situation, just like you do.

Try thinking like them occasionally, and try to understand their point of view. That's the only way to relate to other people, and relating to the world around you is what this whole life business is all about.

So what makes us assholes? We see a problem, a direct action that opposes the 1st amendment and we protest it, and we're assholes? I don't understand. Were the people protesting to give african american's the right to vote because of the constitutional phrase "all men are created equal" assholes? :confused:

why is it a problem? fixing the national debt is a problem. one word on a bill or coin isn't a problem.

*opens wallet* damnit! I don't have any 1's or 5's or 10's or 20's or 50's or 100's for that matter

First of all, the U.S. was NOT founded on Christian beliefs. To suggest so is to completely ignore the Constitution, and then somehow, against all evidence, to assume that the founding fathers were Christians. Almost all of the most important patriarchs of this country were actually Deists, and others were Universalists. And they ALL -- even the Christians -- were strictly opposed to having a Christian United States.

Suggesting that the U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs is much like suggesting Argentina was founded on Islamic beliefs. It's just absurd.



Second of all, for those of you who like to "deface" your money, here's a fun place: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/

First of all, the U.S. was NOT founded on Christian beliefs. To suggest so is to completely ignore the Constitution, and then somehow, against all evidence, to assume that the founding fathers were Christians. Almost all of the most important patriarchs of this country were actually Deists, and others were Universalists. And they ALL -- even the Christians -- were strictly opposed to having a Christian United States.

Suggesting that the U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs is much like suggesting Argentina was founded on Islamic beliefs. It's just absurd.

Amen to that (meant in the least religious sense, of course)

why is it a problem? fixing the national debt is a problem. one word on a bill or coin isn't a problem.

But it is a problem. It directly opposes the constitution and is forcing an aknowledgement of a god.

*opens wallet* damnit! I don't have any 1's or 5's or 10's or 20's or 50's or 100's for that matter
I understand. I don't either. It sucks being broke.

But it is a problem. It directly opposes the constitution and is forcing an aknowledgement of a god.

you say it's against the first amendment. Well, i say it's for the first admendment. If it's your right to not have it on there, then it's my right TO have it on there.

How is it forcing an acknowledgement of God? It's doesn't say "in God you trust" or "in God you must trust" it says we, which is the majority of the population apparently (otherwise it woudln't be on there).

Once the majority is non-Christian and they want it off, then so be it, but until then, there are more important fish to fry. Either way, it doesn't bother me. And if it bothers you that much, go cashless. use Credit/Debit cards and checks. you have an option of not seeing those words.

Are people still ignoring the fact that it is freedom of religion, not from religion. The words "In God we trust" on the banknote do not breach any of your rights

But it is a problem. It directly opposes the constitution and is forcing an aknowledgement of a god.

See post 62

First of all, the U.S. was NOT founded on Christian beliefs. To suggest so is to completely ignore the Constitution, and then somehow, against all evidence, to assume that the founding fathers were Christians. Almost all of the most important patriarchs of this country were actually Deists, and others were Universalists. And they ALL -- even the Christians -- were strictly opposed to having a Christian United States.

Suggesting that the U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs is much like suggesting Argentina was founded on Islamic beliefs. It's just absurd.



Second of all, for those of you who like to "deface" your money, here's a fun place: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/

this is an interesting read: http://watkins.gospelcom.net/foundingfathers.htm
some may not all be Christians, but it seemed quite a bit all were faithful to some form of God or another.

*edit*

de·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dzm, d-)
n.
The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
and this definition comes from your "universalists":
Unitarian Universalism
n.
A religious association of Christian origin that has no official creed and that considers God to be unipersonal, salvation to be granted to the entire human race, and reason and conscience to be the criteria for belief and practice.

as far as having a Christian US... how could the beliefs of men not be projected into their daily lives, subconsciously or consciously?

See post 62

it sickens me that some ppl will bellyache over a tiny issue such as this, when we have bigger problems going on.

The war in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.
The oil crisis (fucking gas prices still too damned high)
The fact that the US is going so far in debt (partly related to the "war on terror")

and so on and so forth.

Well, i believe defacing a dollar bill is a fedral crime (at least it is in Australia if you destroy money) BUT I LIKE IT and if i lived in America its what id be doing.

Good luck in your quest
Only if you deface the picture of the Queen.

Good idea.

I could also close my eyes to all the infringements of my rights and freedom ever imposed by the religious right. I could ignore everyone who ever says, "Hey, pal, it is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion." That wouldn't be a solution, though, would it? I grew up in a church and a Christian school that convinced me that America is based on Christianity. How did they do it? They pointed to "under God" in the pledge of allegience. They pointed to "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every single dollar bill and coin. They capitalized on those slogans, and "God Bless America." I hope sometime in the future some kid looks at a dollar bill and sees "God" crossed out. Then he would realize that not everyone thinks that America is a Christian system.
Freedom of Religion also means Freedom from Religion. The way it is written is you dont have to follow or even have any religion pressed on you. Printing a Christian slogan on a dollar bill pisses off Buddests Muslims Jews.....every non Christian religion but since we live in a socity controled by Christians non Christians can't do anything about it. Out of all our presidents all but 2 were Catholic and the two that weren't were Protestant. All other major government positions have similar histories.

hahaha..thats great....god sux.."there is no god if there was dont you think he would take mercy on the ones who dont have a chance"..quote by me...and if there is a god i shall assain him and become god...MUH HA HA HA!
:sniper: :mp5: ....die bytch DIE!!!!!
carwizzle

I could also close my eyes to all the infringements of my rights and freedom ever imposed by the religious right. I could ignore everyone who ever says, "Hey, pal, it is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion." That wouldn't be a solution, though, would it?
Well, the other solution is to waste your energy on stupid petty things of no consequence.
Lets see, find bigger dragons to slay, or bitch about money?
Hmm, I think I'll choose the useless and completely nonsensical gesture that no one but me will ever care about! Saves me the effort of getting a real cause.
Consider the other part of the coin when I told you to ignore the slogan like most people do. That means that the only people who will ever notice or care about your gesture, are people who were about to put the sign there already.
Cash is cash is cash is cash, all that matters is the number, and the sane people in the world will understand that. You might as well paint your genitals red, just as few people are going to go looking for them.
I grew up in a church and a Christian school that convinced me that America is based on Christianity. How did they do it? They pointed to "under God" in the pledge of allegience. They pointed to "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every single dollar bill and coin. They capitalized on those slogans, and "God Bless America."
So? Do I give a flying fuck about how easy you are to brainwash?
Look at it this way kiddo, if these symbols were so hostile to people becoming non-Christian, then why is it that other religious beliefs are gaining ground? Atheists are on the rise, in spite of the mind control waves that are apparently being broadcasted from their dollars.
I hope sometime in the future some kid looks at a dollar bill and sees "God" crossed out. Then he would realize that not everyone thinks that America is a Christian system.
I hope that someday in the future some kid isn't so stupid as to have a naught sign change his entire view of the world. I hope that people will never become so easily led that a single symbol can change their idealogy.
And I hope that the stupid police shoot that kid dead if he is so easily swayed, because people who are willing to alter their way of looking at government simply based on what some tosser with a marker and five seconds too much time on his hands did are not the sort of people I want reproducing.

and so you feel it's ok to force your believes down my throat just because you were raised Christian and no longer want to be associated with that upbringing? Because you feel like you're getting violated you're going to violate me? Ever heard of "two wrongs don't make a right"?


why wouldn't it be a solution? i do very well ignoring people who want to throw their believes on me (i.e. Jahovah's Witness and Mormons who come knocking every Sunday)

Must be a different church system... i've been to several types and i don't recall any of them harping on Under God and In God We Trust.
What's wrong w/ that? Who else could bless America? How about just "Bless America" would that appease you? or Allah Bless America, or Buddha Bless America? Are any of those ok?

I hope that in the future, "some kid" who looks at a dollar bill and sees the God crossed out already realizes before seeing the God crossed out that not everyone believes in God (or the Christian version of God). You hafta realize, America was founded by Christians. And the gov't is here to appease the MAJORITY of the masses, not the minority.

America is a Christian "system", just like all those states in the Middle East who believe Allah is their God. As a matter of fact, are there any countries in the world who doesn't believe in a diety?
Why does everyone forget that a large number of the settlers wherent Christian? Also the government is here to uphold the constition which states in the first amendment that Religion is free and shoving any religion down peoples throats is agenst that amendment. Yeah the Jahova Witnesses and all them shouldnt do what they do but no one tries to stop them so they continue. Also removing god from the government isnt saying god doesn't exist it just is saying we are not going to say he exists because there are many people who dont think he does. Also only 2 billion people are Christian there are over 6 billion people in the world do the math Christians are not the majority....in this country yeah but according to our laws we CAN NOT use religion in public schools or any other form of state (meaning any building that recives government funding or the government itself)

you say it's against the first amendment. Well, i say it's for the first admendment. If it's your right to not have it on there, then it's my right TO have it on there.

That's like saying you have the right to not be shot by me, but I also have the right to shoot you.

Freedom of Religion also means Freedom from Religion. The way it is written is you dont have to follow or even have any religion pressed on you. Printing a Christian slogan on a dollar bill pisses off Buddests Muslims Jews.....every non Christian religion but since we live in a socity controled by Christians non Christians can't do anything about it. Out of all our presidents all but 2 were Catholic and the two that weren't were Protestant. All other major government positions have similar histories.
Actually, Kerry would have only been the second Catholic, after Kennedy. The rest were protestant, so your point still stands, but facts are important.

Yeah the Jahova Witnesses and all them shouldnt do what they do but no one tries to stop them so they continue.
Actually, they can. Although, there are plenty of ways to get rid of Jehovah's Witnesses. My father got rid of them by asking them all hiss religious questions, my uncle has a sign that reads "No Solicitors" (it seems to actually work).

Heh, this is funny. I believe in God but honestly don't care if the dollar bill has God crossed out. I do a lot of things I think are unnecesarry, ridiculous, repetitive, against my beliefs or just plain stupid, but sometimes you just have to. But it would be funny. I should start writing like a paragraph of a story on every dollar bill I get and eventually I'll have an entire story written on thousands of one dollar bills. Collect them all!! restrictions apply. not valid in New Mexico or Puerto Rico.

Send me all of your $100 bills and I will be more than happy to remove the word GOD and return them back into circulation for you.

Actually, Kerry would have only been the second Catholic, after Kennedy. The rest were protestant, so your point still stands, but facts are important.
I must have mixed them up oh well you get my point.

Since everyone ignored it the first time, I will repeat

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

Repeat after me

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion [yak yak yak yak yak yak like a broken record] I can't figure out how anyone can seriously say that line once let alone twenty times. You can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion. How can you believe that an elegant system of freedom and equality is one where everyone's beliefs are respected except atheists' beliefs? Maybe we should have everyone swear a mandatory oath to God--a God that isn't specific to any one religion--and those who don't swear that oath would be put to death. Yeah, that would be freedom of religion by your standards (not freedom from religion, but too bad). Oh, and if you really want people to respond to your posts more often, make an argument, not just an assertion.

*shrug* then i'll just ignore it like everyone else throwing their shit at me.That's great, you can afford to do that.

a bit of pessimistic(sp) view don't you think? on a side note, i wouldn't be surprised if you lived in California....I am a pessimist. I don't trust the Christian majority to protect my rights as an atheist. If you chip away at my rights, atheists like me are the only ones who will guard them, or else the rights of atheists will evaporate until they are no more.

I live in Washington state.

i find this interesting... If someone tries to "question your integrity" because of money w/ In God We Trust on it, tell that dumbfuck that there isn't any type of money that doesn't have it imprinted on it and it's not your fault. And if they really believe you're being a hypocrite for using money w/ said terminology, they really are dumb, and i wish that people could die from stupidity.Amen, dude.

we'll hafta agree to disagree. Even though Christianity isn't the "official" religion, the founders of this country were strong believers of the faith. Hence all the God stuff. (either that, or like what happened in the 50s w/ Under God being added to the Pledge)...

Either way, there is a strong religious presence.The founders were predominantly Christian, but they certainly were not today's brand of Christians. Back in that time, there were no official God slogans on coins or in pledges. That was a time when a treaty was read aloud on the floor of the Senate and unanimously approved, containing the declaration, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." (US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796).

Nice cartoon. Still doesn't mean that America wasn't founded by Christians, just that it wasn't founded based on the bible, and states that there should be no religous laws.Yep. And I believe that a religiously-neutral government would be in all the people's interest, and the founders believed it too.

it sickens me that some ppl will bellyache over a tiny issue such as this, when we have bigger problems going on.

The war in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.
The oil crisis (fucking gas prices still too damned high)
The fact that the US is going so far in debt (partly related to the "war on terror")

and so on and so forth.These are all important issues, and the Christian religion ties in with them. The US intrusions in the Middle East are partially motivated by Zionist intention among US Christians--Israel has an inherent right to the land so that prophecy can be fulfilled. I am serious. Antagonism against Muslims is partially motivated by a Christian identity. Blind trust in Bush and his policies comes out of his assertions that he is a born-again Christian. It doesn't help when the government spews religious slogans and indoctrinates children with them. The Christian religion is the #1 source of delusion in America, and I hope to correct it.

Step 1 -- Get your hands on a permanent red marking pen, like a Sharpie.
Step 2 -- Find the slogan "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the back of your dollar bills.
Step 3 -- With your red pen, draw a circle and slash over "GOD," like this:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4150/100dollarbillgod3lu.jpg

Step 4 -- Repeat Step 3 with every dollar bill that ever comes into your possession (carry your red pen around with you).

I have made this my ritual. I will no longer sacrifice my integrity by dealing in currency containing a message that I strongly object to. Instead, I will force religious people who recognize no bounds between church and state to sacrifice their integrity by spreading my message around, and I will make them see the injustice.

If every atheist in America does this, then every dollar bill would have an atheist message on it--that is, until "IN GOD WE TRUST" is removed.
This exact post was on the ethical atheist board... Is there some sort of campaign to do this now?

This exact post was on the ethical atheist board... Is there some sort of campaign to do this now?

I have no idea, and while it may seem good at first, it's really stupid: The entire thing should be crossed out.

This exact post was on the ethical atheist board... Is there some sort of campaign to do this now?Yes, it is my campaign.

Yes, it is my campaign.
Okie Doke.

OOOH BURN :rolleyes:

I have no idea, and while it may seem good at first, it's really stupid: The entire thing should be crossed out.
But the point isn't to do that. The point is to express that people trust naught signs with their lives, and the US government should recognize that.

I expanded my campaign by calling in on the Tom Leykis show yesterday. The topic was Michael Newdow suing the government to take the slogan off the money.

Well, the other solution is to waste your energy on stupid petty things of no consequence.
Lets see, find bigger dragons to slay, or bitch about money?
Hmm, I think I'll choose the useless and completely nonsensical gesture that no one but me will ever care about! Saves me the effort of getting a real cause.It is hard for me to fathom why a religious slogan would not be taken seriously, a slogan that permeates American society everywhere there are dollar bills and coins. I don't understand it. This is serious. The same slogan gets emblazoned over the doors of large public buildings, and the courts refuse to take them down, simply because it is so common that it has become secular. Do you wonder why people think America was founded on the Bible, despite the contrary sentiments of the founders? I don't. I'll take a stand for the truth, and I'll start directly where it touches me, my own money.

Consider the other part of the coin when I told you to ignore the slogan like most people do. That means that the only people who will ever notice or care about your gesture, are people who were about to put the sign there already.
Cash is cash is cash is cash, all that matters is the number, and the sane people in the world will understand that. You might as well paint your genitals red, just as few people are going to go looking for them.Everyone has examined their money sometime in their lives. Everyone knows that it says, "IN GOD WE TRUST" on it and has pictures of presidents on the front and buildings on the back, unless they are idiots. And alomst everyone notices a large red marking on their bills when they count their cash to buy or sell. The first time I paid for something with God marked out, it got noticed.

So? Do I give a flying fuck about how easy you are to brainwash?
Look at it this way kiddo, if these symbols were so hostile to people becoming non-Christian, then why is it that other religious beliefs are gaining ground? Atheists are on the rise, in spite of the mind control waves that are apparently being broadcasted from their dollars.No, atheism is not on the rise, at least not in America. It is still as small and stagnant as it has ever been, and it isn't getting better. Atheists simply don't want to take action, and they feel uncomfortable being part of political movements.

I hope that someday in the future some kid isn't so stupid as to have a naught sign change his entire view of the world. I hope that people will never become so easily led that a single symbol can change their idealogy.
And I hope that the stupid police shoot that kid dead if he is so easily swayed, because people who are willing to alter their way of looking at government simply based on what some tosser with a marker and five seconds too much time on his hands did are not the sort of people I want reproducing.I didn't say that one symbol can change anyone's worldview, so don't kid yourself.

From the US Treasury (http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html):

History of 'In God We Trust'

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.

One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.
As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.

You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.
So the slogan was the doing of the 19th century's Pat Robertson. Wonderful.