Ordoliberalism - Sensible Libertarianism?
Neu Leonstein
13-11-2005, 05:42
There is a form of libertarianism which has some interesting characteristics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordoliberalism
This is only a little stub - but it'll do for now.
The interesting thing about it is the apparent existence of ordoliberalism as a third way capitalism. Mises.org (which you all know as the moralistic semi-scientific morass that it is ;) ) has virtual shrines to some of the inventors, namely Wilhelm Röpke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_R%C3%B6pke), Walter Eucken and to some extent even Ludwig Erhard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Erhard).
These are people (particularly Erhard) which I genuinely admire as the architects of the recovery of the German economy after WWII.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GermanEconomicMiracle.html
Mises.org is divided on the ordoliberalists though. In one opinion piece they condemn it (http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=885&id=74) as an abominable support for governmental oppression, while another time they reconstruct (http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=146&sortorder=articledate) Röpke as one of them.
So what do you think of the Ordoliberalists, and their concept of a Social Market Economy (http://countrystudies.us/germany/136.htm)?
Is it a genuine "third way"? And are the Swedes for example approaching that third way?
AllCoolNamesAreTaken
13-11-2005, 06:09
From what I know of OL, it is just an economic policy. It wouldn't be applicable as a government platform or policy (such as libertarianism) because it doesn't even address social issues. That being said, it is a pretty sound policy which could work well, except that I think it calls for a national bank, which is not libertarian. So my short answer would be...no.
*barfs in bag, due to overdose on too much hair-splitting*
Neu Leonstein
13-11-2005, 06:13
*barfs in bag, due to overdose on too much hair-splitting*
I am appalled! Politics is all about hair-splitting!
And besides, there is a pretty vital difference between ordoliberalism and normal economic liberalism.
It sounds like a saner form of libertarianism, to be sure, though as an anarcho-communist, I don't support it.
Gymoor II The Return
13-11-2005, 08:18
From what I know of OL, it is just an economic policy. It wouldn't be applicable as a government platform or policy (such as libertarianism) because it doesn't even address social issues. That being said, it is a pretty sound policy which could work well, except that I think it calls for a national bank, which is not libertarian. So my short answer would be...no.
Is it libertarian to be a lock-step libertarian? Where's the individuality, man! :D
Neu Leonstein
13-11-2005, 09:34
I don't think a topic with this title is going to get much response...thanks to those that posted though.
I'll make another thread another day about the central tenant of ordoliberalism - namely that capitalism has the tendency to undermine the very foundations of capitalism itself...
Terrorist Cakes
13-11-2005, 09:36
Why so many Lib. boards today?
Gymoor II The Return
13-11-2005, 09:37
Why so many Lib. boards today?
Because the rats are fleeing the Republican party. :D
Neu Leonstein
13-11-2005, 09:40
Because the rats are fleeing the Republican party. :D
That is sig-worthy...pity I have a policy of keeping my sig small. :(
Pennterra
13-11-2005, 09:57
Hmm... Well, for purely economic purposes, I like it. I especially like this line:
The concern is that if the state does not take active measures to foster competition, firms with monopoly (or oligopoly) power will emerge, which will not only subvert the advantages offered by the market economy, but also possibly undermine democracy itself, since strong economic power can be transformed into political power.
Aye, the 'naturally-developed monopoly' is one of the most distasteful possibilities in unrestricted capitalism. I'm looking at you, Microsoft. Bloody unofficial monopoly on operating systems, enforced by the fact that little is made for non-Windows OS's...
The main concern, indeed, is social spending. Does Ordoliberalism allow for significant spending on social services by the government? If so, I'm all for it, as I prefer putting as much money/power in the hands of private companies and citizens as possible without having the poor and unlucky get tossed aside in regard to medical care, food, and shelter.
Of course, there's always to possibility of hijacking the philosophy... http://boards1.wizards.com/images/smilies/Up_to.gif
Neu Leonstein
13-11-2005, 10:06
Does Ordoliberalism allow for significant spending on social services by the government?
That is an issue of contention. Eucken and Röpke were a little more Austrian in some areas, and were genuinely appalled by Soviet Socialism and Nazism. To be honest, I'm not nearly as well-versed in their work as I should be, so I don't know.
As you can read in the links in the OP, Erhard set the stage for a welfare system of pensions, unemployment benefits and the like, but on a small scale. The Social Democrats turned that welfare state up, and went overboard sometimes.
But the CDU, which was more or less founded on a mix of Ordoliberalism and Conservative values has usually been committed to social policies as well as hauling the welfare state back when it was needed.
Barvinia
13-11-2005, 10:12
No thanks, sounds like Anarchy to me!
Neu Leonstein
13-11-2005, 10:16
No thanks, sounds like Anarchy to me!
How come?
Pennterra
13-11-2005, 10:17
No thanks, sounds like Anarchy to me!
:confused: A national bank, competition-promoting laws, and a clear division of labor? How is this anarchistic?
Because the rats are fleeing the Republican party. :D
That was beautiful, Gymoor! :D
Because the rats are fleeing the Republican party. :D
That doesn't make them any less rats.
Gymoor II The Return
13-11-2005, 21:43
That is sig-worthy...pity I have a policy of keeping my sig small. :(
That was beautiful, Gymoor! :D
Thanks guys. I try my best.