NationStates Jolt Archive


Rich countries can't limit their subsidies of agriculture to help poor nations?

Eutrusca
11-11-2005, 17:27
COMMENTARY: Any particular reason the EU can't help out developing nations just a bit??? :rolleyes:


Memo to Poor Countries: Stand Fast (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/11/opinion/11fri1.html?th&emc=th)


Published: November 11, 2005
Brazil's foreign minister, Celso Amorim, put it bluntly after the collapse of the latest round of trade talks in London and Geneva this week: unless the European Union finally stops dithering and cuts farm subsidies to help farmers in poor countries, the negotiations to open up trade in manufactured goods and services - to help big companies in Europe and America - would take "not one month, two months, one year or two years." The talks, he said, "just won't move."

For Mr. Amorim, and the other negotiators from developing countries that have been run over by the rich world in trade talks for the past 50 years, this page has two words: Stand fast. Do not give a single additional concession until the European Union cuts its farm subsidies. It's better to let the talks collapse and send the big guns home empty-handed than to be fooled again by Europe's hypocritical blather about free trade when clearly its countries, led by France, believe in free trade only when it suits their narrow interests.

For the last half-century, the World Trade Organization and its predecessor, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, have aggressively dismantled barriers against trade in industrial goods and services, areas in which rich countries in Europe, along with the United States and Japan, hold a comparative advantage. But when it comes to areas where poor countries could flourish, like textiles and agriculture, it has been a different story.

The developed world funnels nearly $1 billion a day in subsidies to its farmers; that encourages overproduction, which drives down prices. Poor nations' farmers cannot compete with subsidized products. Four years ago, in Doha, Qatar, poor countries finally won a promise that Europe, Japan and America would slash agricultural subsidies, in addition to further liberalizing world trade in services and manufactured goods.

The United States has stepped up to the plate. Last month, the United States trade representative, Robert Portman, made a substantial offer: the United States will slash allowable farm subsidies by 60 percent if Europe and Japan cut their subsidies by 83 percent. There's a difference in the numbers because European countries and Japan have higher subsidies.

Europe has refused, with the French, as usual, leading the way and swearing to block any final agreement that goes beyond Europe's anemic offer of a handful of lame cuts. Then the European Union's trade commissioner, Peter Mandelson, actually had the gall to ask poor countries to make further cuts in industrial tariffs and services.

If the European Union is truly going to refuse to make right a half-century of trade-distorting subsidies, which have helped the rich at the expense of the poor, then there's an easy answer: the talks should just not move.
Neo Kervoskia
11-11-2005, 17:31
They want to protect their own farms against competition.
DrunkenDove
11-11-2005, 17:38
An eighty-three percent reduction in subsidies would kill off small farms. End of story. No politician is going to take an action that dramatic. They'd never get re-elected again. This is one of those thing that has to be done gradually, frog in a boiling pot kind of way.
Fass
11-11-2005, 17:39
That's the EU for you. Evil. Sweden, along with the UK and some others, have been trying to get this agricultural thing reduced, but France and Spain and others have been bitches about it.

It's a real stalemate and the EU budget talks are basically at a standstill over, among others, this issue.

Oh, and did I mention the EU is evil? That explains everything it does.
Neo Kervoskia
11-11-2005, 17:40
On behalf of, well myself, let me thank Sweden for acting independently.
Eynonistan
11-11-2005, 17:44
That's the EU for you. Evil. Sweden, along with the UK and some others, have been trying to get this agricultural thing reduced, but France and Spain and others have been bitches about it.

The UK and Sweden are just acting in their own national interest. The UK has been trying to get rid of large bits of the CAP for years simply because our economy is much more heavily weighted towards the services industry. Not so in France and Spain. Can't really blame them, I'm prepared to bet any other nation would do the same to protect their economy...
Fass
11-11-2005, 17:51
The UK and Sweden are just acting in their own national interest.

Duh. It just so happens to coincide with the right and decent thing to do.

The UK has been trying to get rid of large bits of the CAP for years simply because our economy is much more heavily weighted towards the services industry. Not so in France and Spain. Can't really blame them, I'm prepared to bet any other nation would do the same to protect their economy...

The agricultural subsidies are mad. I can blame France and the rest, especially since the rest of us are paying for it!
Deep Kimchi
11-11-2005, 17:54
That's the EU for you. Evil. Sweden, along with the UK and some others, have been trying to get this agricultural thing reduced, but France and Spain and others have been bitches about it.

It's a real stalemate and the EU budget talks are basically at a standstill over, among others, this issue.

Oh, and did I mention the EU is evil? That explains everything it does.

It's not evil. It's just a lot of individual countries with conflicting interests who aren't willing to give up their sovereignty in the same way that the US states have to their central government.
Fass
11-11-2005, 17:56
It's not evil. It's just a lot of individual countries with conflicting interests who aren't willing to give up their sovereignty in the same way that the US states have to their central government.

No, it's basically just evil.
Eynonistan
11-11-2005, 17:58
Duh. It just so happens to coincide with the right and decent thing to do.

Yes but you can't really congratulate the UK and Sweden for accidentally doing something right and decent...

The agricultural subsidies are mad. I can blame France and the rest, especially since the rest of us are paying for it!

I don't blame the British government for hanging onto our rebate and why the hell would the French government want to give up something that benefits the people who vote for them? Not a lot of votes in France to be gained by taking big sack fulls of cash from their farmers!
Fass
11-11-2005, 18:02
Yes but you can't really congratulate the UK and Sweden for accidentally doing something right and decent...

It's not all that accidental for Sweden. I don't know about the UK.

I don't blame the British government for hanging onto our rebate and why the hell would the French government want to give up something that benefits the people who vote for them? Not a lot of votes in France to be gained by taking big sack fulls of cash from their farmers!

I do blame the British government for the rebate.
Free Soviets
11-11-2005, 18:08
An eighty-three percent reduction in subsidies would kill off small farms. End of story.

farm subsidies don't go to small farmers. they go disproportionately to the biggest and richest farms.

http://www.oxfam.org/eng/pr051107_france_eu.htm
Domici
11-11-2005, 18:10
That's the EU for you. Evil. Sweden, along with the UK and some others, have been trying to get this agricultural thing reduced, but France and Spain and others have been bitches about it.

It's a real stalemate and the EU budget talks are basically at a standstill over, among others, this issue.

Oh, and did I mention the EU is evil? That explains everything it does.

Funny thing is, if you replaced EU with USA and "poor countries" with "the Americas" it would be just as true. Except insofar as it's actually being reported.
DrunkenDove
11-11-2005, 18:17
Funny thing is, if you replaced EU with USA and "poor countries" with "the Americas" it would be just as true. Except insofar as it's actually being reported.

We're all evil! Yay!
Portu Cale MK3
11-11-2005, 18:19
We're all evil! Yay!

Penitence time!
Free Soviets
11-11-2005, 18:22
farm subsidies don't go to small farmers. they go disproportionately to the biggest and richest farms.

http://www.oxfam.org/eng/pr051107_france_eu.htm

in fact, if france (and the u.s., and everybody else) were truly interested in helping their small farmers, they could still very easily make the 83% reduction in farm subsidies. watch this, it's like policy magic: if sticking with a per-bushel style subsidy, only subsidize crops to the amount produced by your average 'small farmer'. farms that produce only a little above that would recieve the subsidy on crops up to that point and not on the ones above. farms producing above a certain amount would be denied the subsidy entirely. tada! i told you it'd be like magic.

the fact that this doesn't happen tells you that farm subsidies aren't about the poor or protecting small farms as valuable in their own right. they are about shifting wealth to the rich.
Portu Cale MK3
11-11-2005, 18:25
farm subsidies don't go to small farmers. they go disproportionately to the biggest and richest farms.

http://www.oxfam.org/eng/pr051107_france_eu.htm

Absolutely true. CAP gives production incentives, the more you produce, the more you gain, large farms thus make more money, and get incentives to grow even more, while those on the bottom (not just family farms, but for example biological farming) get overly screwed.

CAP needs a biggggg reform. I was kinda hoping blair would fix it in the british presidency, but he seems to have backed out.
Eutrusca
11-11-2005, 18:26
That's the EU for you. Evil. Sweden, along with the UK and some others, have been trying to get this agricultural thing reduced, but France and Spain and others have been bitches about it.

It's a real stalemate and the EU budget talks are basically at a standstill over, among others, this issue.

Oh, and did I mention the EU is evil? That explains everything it does.
LOL! Well, I'm not real sure about "evil," but they're certainly obstinate. :D