NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/woody.jpg

A little early for many of you, but it is now 11/11 where I am.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

IN FLANDERS FIELDS
by John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
WE SHALL NOT SLEEP,
THOUGH POPPIES GROW
IN FLANDERS FIELDS.

I'd like to take a moment to thank every veteran here on Nationstates.

Please take a moment to remember those who have fallen in war.

And for those many posters here who are not comfortable with that, please take a moment to remember the deaths that war causes, instead of posting rudely. In fact, we should all do so.

:( :( :(

edit: Keruvalia has complained that the original image was religiously discriminatory.

Thus, if you are somehow offended by the idea of the picture above, please meditate on the picture below. Daistallia 2104, your friendly neighborhood Buddhist.

http://www.hackmatack.ca/2006/poppy.jpg

Please remember those who gave so much so that we could live in peace.
Also, if you are British please remember to buy and wear a poppy. Its not a lot to ask.

Please remember those who gave so much so that we could live in peace.
Also, if you are British please remember to buy and wear a poppy. Its not a lot to ask.
Actually, I never got that poppy thing. Isn't that just for a private charity?

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9813/veteransday4cf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Actually, I never got that poppy thing. Isn't that just for a private charity?
I'm not sure what it is in GB, but in the States it's for the Veterans of Foreign Wars ( VFW ), which is an organization of, by and for American veterans. I'm a liftime member, as I am of the Disabled American Veterans ( DAV ). They do good things for veterans in need, particularly homeless ones.

That's affirmative.

Actually, I never got that poppy thing. Isn't that just for a private charity?
It's for the British Legion - set up in 1921 to support those soldiers back from WWI. The British Legion now supports all British soldiers who have fought in conflicts, plus their dependents.
Personally, I don't get a red poppy - I go for the white poppy, produced by the Peace Pledge Union for the following reason: white = colour of peace; red = colour of war.

It's for the British Legion - set up in 1921 to support those soldiers back from WWI. The British Legion now supports all British soldiers who have fought in conflicts, plus their dependents.
Personally, I don't get a red poppy - I go for the white poppy, produced by the Peace Pledge Union for the following reason: white = colour of peace; red = colour of war.
How will we know that we are all one? When those who advocate peace help veterans who are in need, and when those who help veterans in need pray for peace.

I'm not sure what it is in GB, but in the States it's for the Veterans of Foreign Wars ( VFW ), which is an organization of, by and for American veterans. I'm a liftime member, as I am of the Disabled American Veterans ( DAV ). They do good things for veterans in need, particularly homeless ones.
The VFW and DAV are both great organizations, it bothers me though that they are needed, you would think that we would respect our veterans enough to take better care of them.

Tomorrow I will make it a point (more than I do already) to do something nice for a veteran. They deserve more respect than they get, and more admiration than any human is able to give.

Actually, I never got that poppy thing. Isn't that just for a private charity?

Why the Poppy? (http://www.canoe.ca/RemembranceDay/poppy.html)


PLEASE WEAR A POPPY

"Please wear a poppy," the lady said
And held one forth, but I shook my head.
Then I stopped and watched as she offered them there,
And her face was old and lined with care;
But beneath the scars the years had made
There remained a smile that refused to fade.

A boy came whistling down the street,
Bouncing along on care-free feet.
His smile was full of joy and fun,
"Lady," said he, "may I have one?"
When she's pinned in on he turned to say,
"Why do we wear a poppy today?"

The lady smiled in her wistful way
And answered, "This is Remembrance Day,
And the poppy there is the symbol for
The gallant men who died in war.
And because they did, you and I are free -
That's why we wear a poppy, you see.

"I had a boy about your size,
With golden hair and big blue eyes.
He loved to play and jump and shout,
Free as a bird he would race about.
As the years went by he learned and grew
and became a man - as you will, too.

"He was fine and strong, with a boyish smile,
But he'd seemed with us such a little while
When war broke out and he went away.
I still remember his face that day
When he smiled at me and said, Goodbye,
I'll be back soon, Mom, so please don't cry.

"But the war went on and he had to stay,
And all I could do was wait and pray.
His letters told of the awful fight,
(I can see it still in my dreams at night),
With the tanks and guns and cruel barbed wire,
And the mines and bullets, the bombs and fire.

"Till at last, at last, the war was won-
And that's why we wear a poppy son."
The small boy turned as if to go,
Then said, "Thanks, lady, I'm glad to know.
That sure did sound like an awful fight,
But your son - did he come back all right?"

A tear rolled down each faded check;
She shook her head, but didn't speak.
I slunk away in a sort of shame,
And if you were me you'd have done the same;
For our thanks, in giving, if oft delayed,
Thought our freedom was bought - and thousands paid!

And so when we see a poppy worn,
Let us reflect on the burden borne,
By those who gave their very all
When asked to answer their country's call
That we at home in peace might live.
Then wear a poppy! Remember - and give!

by Don Crawford

Poppies are not really available where I reside. I hope someone who wouldn't ordinarily wear one, wears one for me...

I'm not sure what it is in GB, but in the States it's for the Veterans of Foreign Wars ( VFW ), which is an organization of, by and for American veterans. I'm a liftime member, as I am of the Disabled American Veterans ( DAV ). They do good things for veterans in need, particularly homeless ones.
Ah, thanks Eut. Didn't even know that US even did the poppy thing anyway.




It's for the British Legion - set up in 1921 to support those soldiers back from WWI. The British Legion now supports all British soldiers who have fought in conflicts, plus their dependents.
Personally, I don't get a red poppy - I go for the white poppy, produced by the Peace Pledge Union for the following reason: white = colour of peace; red = colour of war.

Thats it! The Legion. I knew it was a private charity- but since its so widespread now its almost a national offical symbol. We don't actually do anything.... especially regards WWI. Still a touchy subject up until a few years ago.:(

The VFW and DAV are both great organizations, it bothers me though that they are needed, you would think that we would respect our veterans enough to take better care of them.

Tomorrow I will make it a point (more than I do already) to do something nice for a veteran. They deserve more respect than they get, and more admiration than any human is able to give.

Bless you, sweet lady. [ massive ole bear hug! ] :)


Tommy
by Rudyard Kipling

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

A little early for many of you, but it is now 11/11 where I am.

It's my birthday in Japan o.O


Sigh.

It's my birthday in Japan o.O


Sigh.

Happy birthday.

I did not know it was this tomorrow. Eh, we don't have it.

I did not know it was this tomorrow. Eh, we don't have it.
Well Sweden is neutral so fair enough to you fine people.

Well Sweden is neutral so fair enough to you fine people.

Yeah, "neutral"... :\

Yeah, "neutral"... :\
ROFLMAO! Yeah ... gotta love dem "neutral" Swedes! At least they go with pretty much any color they want to wear, eh? :D

ROFLMAO! Yeah ... gotta love dem "neutral" Swedes! At least they go with pretty much any color they want to wear, eh? :D

Being the beautiful people can be a curse at times.

Being the beautiful people can be a curse at times.

*sighs* don't we all know that feeling....

Being the beautiful people can be a curse at times.
How well I know it! :D

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9813/veteransday4cf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Tomorrow, November 11th marks the signing of the armistice that ended World War I. It is also a day to remember those who have served, died, and still serving in the military.

To this end, I would like to thank those on here who are currently serving or who have served with honor.

My thanks also go out to those that are currently serving and who have served. This includes my mother who served for 6 years in the Air Force.

Thanks to all who served and are currently serving.

I'm not sure what it is in GB, but in the States it's for the Veterans of Foreign Wars ( VFW ), which is an organization of, by and for American veterans. I'm a liftime member, as I am of the Disabled American Veterans ( DAV ). They do good things for veterans in need, particularly homeless ones.

My dad is also a member of the VFW. By extension, so is my mom :D

Why the Poppy? (http://www.canoe.ca/RemembranceDay/poppy.html)

Thanks for the link Daistallia.

I have to ask though where those words are. It brought tears to my eyes.

It's my birthday in Japan o.O


Sigh.

Happy Birthday.

Thanks to all who served and are currently serving.
And thank you for thinking about us! ( HUG! )

And thank you for thinking about us! ( HUG! )

No Problem Eutrusca. ( HUG! )

It's my birthday in Japan o.O


Sigh.

You too? Cool. Happy B day mate! :D

Tomorrow I will make it a point (more than I do already) to do something nice for a veteran. They deserve more respect than they get, and more admiration than any human is able to give.This is very true. The younger generation often don't seem to care what those who fought in WW1 and WW2 (among others, of course) did so they can live in (admittedly relative, but it's better than what the alternative would have been) freedom and peace.

Those who served all have my greatest respect and thanks.

http://www.sounding-brass.co.uk/images/rbl_logo.gif

This is very true. The younger generation often don't seem to care what those who fought in WW1 and WW2 (among others, of course) did so they can live in (admittedly relative, but it's better than what the alternative would have been) freedom and peace.

Those who served all have my greatest respect and thanks.

http://www.sounding-brass.co.uk/images/rbl_logo.gif
although I am pretty young, I have been blessed with the friendship of some WW2 vets. Listening to them gives you a whole new perspective, I am so glad that they take the time to hang out with me. :)

although I am pretty young, I have been blessed with the friendship of some WW2 vets. Listening to them gives you a whole new perspective, I am so glad that they take the time to hang out with me. :)
Which speaks highly of you. :)

although I am pretty young, I have been blessed with the friendship of some WW2 vets. Listening to them gives you a whole new perspective, I am so glad that they take the time to hang out with me. :)That's cool :) Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity (:(), but I find the stories veterans have to tell so moving and profound when I hear them in the various media, and can therefore only imagine that it must be even more profound when heard first hand.

That's cool :) Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity (:(), but I find the stories veterans have to tell so moving and profound when I hear them in the various media, and can therefore only imagine that it must be even more profound when heard first hand.
I've found that most of them, when they're even willing to talk about their experiences, tend to understate things they did. Most of them feel as though they were just ordinary "Joes" doing their job. These men and women are very good examples to follow, IMHO.

The Soldier.

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.


Dulce et Decorum est.

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!-An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,-
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.



In rememberance.

The Soldier.

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.


Dulce et Decorum est.

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!-An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,-
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

In rememberance.
Very vivid and, IMHO, accurate. Who wrote that??

A Soldier Died Today

By Lawrence Vaincourt

He was getting old and paunchy and his hair was falling fast,
And he sat around the Legion, telling stories of the past
Of a war that he had fought in and the deeds that he had done,
In his exploits with his buddies; they were heroes, every one.


And tho' sometimes, to his neighbors, his tales became a joke,
All his Legion buddies listened, for they knew whereof he spoke.
But we'll hear his tales no longer for old Bill has passed away,
And the world's a little poorer, for a soldier died today.


He will not be mourned by many, just his children and his wife,
For he lived an ordinary and quite uneventful life.
Held a job and raised a family, quietly going his own way,
And the world won't note his passing, though a soldier died today.


When politicians leave this earth, their bodies lie in state,
While thousands note their passing and proclaim that they were great.
Papers tell their whole life stories, from the time that they were young,
But the passing of a soldier goes unnoticed and unsung.


Is the greatest contribution to the welfare of our land
A guy who breaks his promises and cons his fellow man?
Or the ordinary fellow who, in times of war and strife,
Goes off to serve his Country and offers up his life?


A politician's stipend and the style in which he lives
Are sometimes disproportionate to the service that he gives.
While the ordinary soldier, who offered up his all,
Is paid off with a medal and perhaps, a pension small.


It's so easy to forget them for it was so long ago,
That the old Bills of our Country went to battle, but we know
It was not the politicians, with their compromise and ploys,
Who won for us the freedom that our Country now enjoys.


Should you find yourself in danger, with your enemies at hand,
Would you want a politician with his ever-shifting stand?
Or would you prefer a soldier, who has sworn to defend
His home, his kin and Country and would fight until the end?


He was just a common soldier and his ranks are growing thin,
But his presence should remind us we may need his like again.
For when countries are in conflict, then we find the soldier's part
Is to clean up all the troubles that the politicians start.


If we cannot do him honor while he's here to hear the praise,
Then at least let's give him homage at the ending of his days.
Perhaps just a simple headline in a paper that would say,
Our Country is in mourning, for a soldier died today.

© 1985 A. Lawrence Vaincourt

IN Memoriam:
MSG Guadalupe R. Escobedo, USAF
PVT Cosme C. Hernandez, USA

Very vivid and, IMHO, accurate. Who wrote that??

Two different poems written in the First World War by two VERY different poets. The first (The Soldier) was written by Rupert Brooke, a war poet who was commissioned I believe by the British War Office to drum up some support at home by portraying the glories of war.... needless to say he actually saw little action (none actually as he was stationed on a quiet part of the front). He died in 1915 in the Aegean, of an infected cut he recieved while shaving.

The second is written by Wilfried Owen, a soldier who saw a lot of combat wrote Dulce et Decorum est. I remember learning that poem vividly in secondary school (high school). Definitely not one you forget. He saw the true horrors of trench warfare and depicted the scenarios truthfully. He was not popular with the Army because his poetry did not depict the glorious war that they so desperatly wanted to show.

Sadly, on November 4, just seven days before the Armistice, he was caught in a German machine gun attack and killed. He was twenty-five when he died.

Two VERY contrasting poems from two VERY contrasting poets. I prefer Owen... and also Sigfried Sassoon.

I'm not sure what it is in GB, but in the States it's for the Veterans of Foreign Wars ( VFW ), which is an organization of, by and for American veterans. I'm a liftime member, as I am of the Disabled American Veterans ( DAV ). They do good things for veterans in need, particularly homeless ones.

Thank you for your service Eutrusca.

I've found that most of them, when they're even willing to talk about their experiences, tend to understate things they did. Most of them feel as though they were just ordinary "Joes" doing their job. These men and women are very good examples to follow, IMHO.I would imagine you're very right. I also think that some veterans of war would not really want to go into the great detail about how terrible things really were for them - partly because they don't want to have to relive it, partly because they don't want to be too explicit and horrify others. I know it's a cliche, but I am quite certain that the old assertion that you can't possibly imagine how awful things really were is true.

I'm just guessing, though. Whatever the case, all that matters is that they did it - and in their horrible deaths and suffering saved those that came after from terrible hardships.

No such thing in Germany...no rememberance day, no veterans, no statues.
Strange world sometimes.

I for my part will acknowledge them as well.

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_ergebnis_detail.asp?id=3747559&sec_id=F4DB11BCA6FBAD061ACF3032C1BDC2D0784574F4

No such thing in Germany...no rememberance day, no veterans, no statues.
Strange world sometimes.

Ah hell, don't worry about it too much. We don't do it either... though thats more to do with not liking the 'Empire' and all :p
Nothing personal, everyone could do something in their own way.

The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson

1.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

2.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

3.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

4.
Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

5.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

6.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.

Copied from Poems of Alfred Tennyson,
J. E. Tilton and Company, Boston, 1870

And when he gets to Heaven,
To ST Peter he will tell,
"One more soldier reporting, sir!
I've served my time in Hell!"

The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Why did you post that?!
Tennyson was an ass. And that poem glorifies one of the greatest military fuck ups in history! Don't try and turn it around. :mad: The Light Brigade wasn't even that badly hit, they said 'casualties' numbered nearly 2/3s of the brigade. Their definition of a 'casualty' was a soldier minus his horse at roll call. The majority of the men arrived back scattered throughout tat evening after roll call.

Whats next? A poem glorifying Dunkirk? Or Custer?

No such thing in Germany...no rememberance day, no veterans, no statues.
Strange world sometimes.

I for my part will acknowledge them as well.

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_ergebnis_detail.asp?id=3747559&sec_id=F4DB11BCA6FBAD061ACF3032C1BDC2D0784574F4
Any soldier from any nation in any time or place who served honorably and to the best of his/her ability has my respect.

The image in the first post is an affront to every Jewish soldier who fought and/or died in service to the United States. The implication that fighting for an ideal or for freedom or for the good and benefit of others is a solely Christian ideaology is an insult to thousands of men and women who've served.

[/liberal rant]

That said, I believe everyone should at least thank a soldier for trying. Doing an unspeakable job for an impossible boss at a chaotic time is definately worthy of a gold star sticker and a pat on the back. Maybe a beer if you have the 3 bucks.

Maybe a beer if you have the 3 bucks.
Where the hell do you buy YOUR beer? Three damned BUCKS??? WTF, over?

Why did you post that?!
Tennyson was an ass. And that poem glorifies one of the greatest military fuck ups in history! Don't try and turn it around. :mad: The Light Brigade wasn't even that badly hit, they said 'casualties' numbered nearly 2/3s of the brigade. Their definition of a 'casualty' was a soldier minus his horse at roll call. The majority of the men arrived back scattered throughout tat evening after roll call.

Whats next? A poem glorifying Dunkirk? Or Custer?

:)

To quote Marshal Bosquet "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre."

BTW, less remembered is Kipling's reply to Tennyson: The Last of the Light Brigade (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Last_of_the_Light_Brigade).

My great-grandfather served in the US navy as a young man during WW1, after coming here from Eastern Europe. Years later, as a better off, though not anywhere near rich, shopkeeper in Brooklyn, he attended a WW2 War Bond Drive, and when the drive wasn't looking sucessful he got up and pledged 10,000 dollars he secretly had stashed away. According to my grandma, he got a standing ovation, and everyone started pledging as well. Yet, years later, cops would often question his still heavy yiddish accent when they stopped him. (Great man, awful driver:) ) To me, it is this dedication to freedom and confidence in the triuph of it that is now inspiring about veterans.

If you do anything tomorrow, thank a veteran.

Any soldier from any nation in any time or place who served honorably and to the best of his/her ability has my respect.

Exactly.

The image in the first post is an affront to every Jewish soldier who fought and/or died in service to the United States. The implication that fighting for an ideal or for freedom or for the good and benefit of others is a solely Christian ideaology is an insult to thousands of men and women who've served.

[/liberal rant]

:rolleyes: I just knew somebody would find something to complain about. And I note you did nothing about it (like post an alternate image).

Thank you for your service Eutrusca.
And thank you for saying so. :)

As a wonderful coincidence, I'm sailing on the former USS Tripoli. What a great way to spend the Marine Corps birthday and Veterans day. You just can't buy fun like this! If you're interested in some photos of the ship, you can refer to my "copycat" postings at http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9914289&postcount=7

Why did you post that?!
Tennyson was an ass. And that poem glorifies one of the greatest military fuck ups in history! Don't try and turn it around. :mad: The Light Brigade wasn't even that badly hit, they said 'casualties' numbered nearly 2/3s of the brigade. Their definition of a 'casualty' was a soldier minus his horse at roll call. The majority of the men arrived back scattered throughout tat evening after roll call.

Whats next? A poem glorifying Dunkirk? Or Custer?

We learn about the sayings and deeds of the men of old in order to entrust ourselves to entrust ourselves to their wisdom and prevent selfishness. When we throw off our own bias, follow the sayings of the ancients, and confer with other people, matters should go well and without mishap. Lord [Nabeshima] Katsushige borrowed from the wisdom of Lord Naoshige. This is mentioned in the Ohanashikikigaki. We should be grateful for his concern.
Moreover, there was a certain man who engaged a number of his younger brothers as retainers, and whenever he visited Edo or the Kamigata area, he would have them accompany him. As he consulted with them everyday on both private and public matters, it is said that he was without mishap.
Yamamoto Tsunetomo

:D
Custer
A second's silence. Custer dropped his head,
His lips slow moving as when prayers are said--
Two words he breathed--"God and Elizabeth,"
Then shook his long locks in the face of death
And with a final gesture turned away
To join that fated few who stood at bay.
Ah! deeds like that the Christ in man reveal
Let Fame descend her throne at Custer's shrine to kneel.
Ella Wheeler Wilcox

This poem was submitted by Joyce Mills of Age Concern Library,Leicester, on behalf of Iris Fewkes and has been added to this site with her permission. The submitter fully understands the site’s terms and conditions.

:D
"Evacuation of Dunquecue"

Withdrawal orders had just come through,
Where we were bound for no one knew,
As time past by we heard the talk,
Of our destination being the beach at Dunquecue.

For days and nights on the country wide,
The troops on foot fought side by side,
While on roads in one unending line,
The convoys race against father time.

Hedges and roadside we know its true,
Were strewn with guns and vehicles too,
But no one seemed to think of the loss or gain,
Their thoughts were one, to live and fight again.

The weary trek was oh! so long,
But the allied troops were still in song,
The thought of loved ones there at home,
Gave British tommies no want to roam.

A ruined mass was what we saw,
When at last we reached the Dunquecue Shore,
The blazing docks with their reddish light,
Give guide to see us thought the night,

But what a sight there was in store,
The boys in blue and ships galore,
The Air Force too did play their part
In the Epic of Dunquecue right from the start.

To me, Remembrance Day is the most important day of the year. I'm a devout Christian, and I know I'm supposed to think Christmas and Easter are the most important events of the year, but the fact of the matter is that Jesus was an extraordinary man who did extraordinary things, and that's wonderful. The veterans, however, are and were ordinary men who did extraordinary things. They had doubts and flaws and quirks and fears just like you and me. They had that voice in their head telling them that they should just stay home and let the other people fight, but they chose to ignore it. Jesus was great, but at least he always knew he was right. These people didn't have that sort of divine confidence in themselves. Rather, they had their conscience as their guide, and it wasn't a perfect guide, just like how they weren't perfect people. However, in spite of that they managed do selflessly do the right thing. Many of them gave up their lives, their hopes, their loved ones, so that we wouldn't have to. The one thing I always ask myself on Remembrance Day is if I could make that same sacrifice for what I believe in, and while I'll never know till I'm in that situation and hopefully I will never be in that situation, I hope beyond all hope that I am capable of the selflessness and determination that those who fought for our freedom showed when they gave up everything so we could be free.

...I hope beyond all hope that I am capable of the selflessness and determination that those who fought for our freedom showed when they gave up everything so we could be free.
I think once you signed up, the decision becomes that much easier. ;)

Anyways, what can the various veterans tell me about a nasty thought that rocked up in my head recently about going to serve my 9 months or so with the German army, even though having moved to Australia, I don't have to?
Rest assured that my family wouldn't understand it...

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

The Ode comes from For the Fallen, a poem by the English poet and writer Laurence Binyon and was published in London in The Winnowing Fan: Poems of the Great War in 1914. This verse, which became the Ode for the Returned and Services League, has been used in association with commemoration services in Australia since 1921.


Engraved forever at ANZAC Cove are these words from Kemal Ataturk, the Commander of the Turkish 19th Division during the Gallipoli Campaign and the first President of the Turkish Republic from 1924-1938:

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives. You are now living in the soil of a friendly country therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.



Lest we forget.



http://www.rsl.org.au/commemoration/remembrance.html

Originally Posted by Keruvalia
The image in the first post is an affront to every Jewish soldier who fought and/or died in service to the United States. The implication that fighting for an ideal or for freedom or for the good and benefit of others is a solely Christian ideaology is an insult to thousands of men and women who've served.

Because it is a picutre from the Uk a Christian nation with the national state religion of Chrisitanity. It was an image produced by an organisation that was set up by British Christians. As most of the men and women who fought for the UK were Christian and thier graves are marked with a cross, it is the symbol the people of the nation associate with sacrifice. If you go to see the war graves you will notice that none christians (where thier religion was known) do not have thier resting place marked with a cross.

Get your head out your arse and remember the millions of people who died and those that still die, and stop with the venomous digs that contribute to an atmosphere where war is seen as acceptable or needed.

I did not know it was this tomorrow. Eh, we don't have it.
Neutrality does that.:)

New Zealand sustained the highest casulties per head of population of any combatant nation in WWI.
Took all objectives at the Somme.


No one remembers the Heavy Brigade or the Scots Greys or the Turks.:(

Why did you post that?!
Tennyson was an ass. And that poem glorifies one of the greatest military fuck ups in history! Don't try and turn it around. :mad: The Light Brigade wasn't even that badly hit, they said 'casualties' numbered nearly 2/3s of the brigade. Their definition of a 'casualty' was a soldier minus his horse at roll call. The majority of the men arrived back scattered throughout tat evening after roll call.

Whats next? A poem glorifying Dunkirk? Or Custer?
They actually got to the guns they may have been the wrong guns but still.

Well now, just woke up to Remeberance Day here in the United Kingdom, and I'll root out the Poppy I bought a couple of days ago at the Campus Store. Thanks to all the veterans on this board for doing their duty, god bless you all.

The only veteran I know personally is my grandfather, who fought in the Korean War in the Royal Navy. Though I did lose an Uncle in the Second World War in Norway...killed the same hour the war actually ended by a German shot.

Fifteen minutes to the two-minute silence over here. Thanks to whoever posted Dulce et Decorum est, it's a remarkable poem.

Thanks to those who served, best of luck to those still serving or soon to serve.

Let's hope that some day no one will serve.

It's for the British Legion - set up in 1921 to support those soldiers back from WWI. The British Legion now supports all British soldiers who have fought in conflicts, plus their dependents.
Personally, I don't get a red poppy - I go for the white poppy, produced by the Peace Pledge Union for the following reason: white = colour of peace; red = colour of war.

WRONG!

The Red Poppy is a sign of peace - the white poppy is a miserable excuse worn by people who do not understand. I have nothing but contempt for those that belittle the memory of the brave, that gave their lives that we can now live in freedom, by wearing a white poppy.

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/traditions/documents/InFlandersField_1.htm

Have a Safe Veterans Day/Armistice/Rememberance day Ladies and Gentlemen.

In a few hrs I'm off to volunteer at my local Soup Kitchen - I wonder if I'll run into any veterans there....

Two different poems written in the First World War by two VERY different poets. The first (The Soldier) was written by Rupert Brooke, a war poet who was commissioned I believe by the British War Office to drum up some support at home by portraying the glories of war.... needless to say he actually saw little action (none actually as he was stationed on a quiet part of the front). He died in 1915 in the Aegean, of an infected cut he recieved while shaving.

The second is written by Wilfried Owen, a soldier who saw a lot of combat wrote Dulce et Decorum est. I remember learning that poem vividly in secondary school (high school). Definitely not one you forget. He saw the true horrors of trench warfare and depicted the scenarios truthfully. He was not popular with the Army because his poetry did not depict the glorious war that they so desperatly wanted to show.

Sadly, on November 4, just seven days before the Armistice, he was caught in a German machine gun attack and killed. He was twenty-five when he died.

Two VERY contrasting poems from two VERY contrasting poets. I prefer Owen... and also Sigfried Sassoon.


i posted them to highlight that war is not glorious, despite what some people would have you believe. dulce et decorum est is amazingly powerful in this way. rememberance day is, to me, a reminder that we should never ever let this happen again. obviously those in power really couldnt care less.

I just knew somebody would find something to complain about. And I note you did nothing about it (like post an alternate image).

Get your head out your arse and remember the millions of people who died and those that still die, and stop with the venomous digs that contribute to an atmosphere where war is seen as acceptable or needed.

Two people so far who completely ignored the 2nd part of my post. How very predictably amusing. Oh noes! Someone exercising the very freedom so many have fought and/or died for by expressing an opinion freely! :eek: :eek: Jesus is surely bound to strike me down now .... now ..... no now .... ok ..... NOW .... hrmmm ... maybe he's in the bathroom.

I love this forum so much.

Where the hell do you buy YOUR beer? Three damned BUCKS??? WTF, over?

Texas, my good man, Texas. Alcohol is expensive here.

Neutrality does that.:)

New Zealand sustained the highest casulties per head of population of any combatant nation in WWI.
Took all objectives at the Somme.

No one remembers the Heavy Brigade or the Scots Greys or the Turks.:(
I remember the Scots Greys.

In a few hrs I'm off to volunteer at my local Soup Kitchen - I wonder if I'll run into any veterans there....
Probably. They'll be overjoyed if you ask them. :)

i posted them to highlight that war is not glorious, despite what some people would have you believe. dulce et decorum est is amazingly powerful in this way. rememberance day is, to me, a reminder that we should never ever let this happen again. obviously those in power really couldnt care less.
I liked that poem ... a lot! And some few of those "in power" do really care. I know a few of them.

Texas, my good man, Texas. Alcohol is expensive here.
Cheap oil and expensive booze is no bargain in my book! :D

Two people so far who completely ignored the 2nd part of my post. How very predictably amusing. Oh noes! Someone exercising the very freedom so many have fought and/or died for by expressing an opinion freely! :eek: :eek: Jesus is surely bound to strike me down now .... now ..... no now .... ok ..... NOW .... hrmmm ... maybe he's in the bathroom.

I love this forum so much.


Hehehe. Do you realise that I, the OP who posted that "Christian" image that you objected to so much, am Buddhist? As far as I'm concerened, there was nothing at all religious in that image at all. I didn't even considere it until you posted. To me it was simply the first poppy I came upon to post. But in defference to your poor sensitive soul, I'll change it. :rolleyes:


As for the second half, I didn't comment on it because you were exactly correct, and I didn't think it needed comment.

Neutrality does that.:)

New Zealand sustained the highest casulties per head of population of any combatant nation in WWI.
Took all objectives at the Somme.


No one remembers the Heavy Brigade or the Scots Greys or the Turks.:(

The Kiwis, utmost respect is due.

I've already referenced the Turks & paid respect to them.

Neutrality does that.:)

New Zealand sustained the highest casulties per head of population of any combatant nation in WWI.
Took all objectives at the Somme.

You Kiwis. You hide it well sometimes, but you do seriously kick ass.

No one remembers the Heavy Brigade or the Scots Greys or the Turks.:(

You mean the Turks and Scots Greys of the "Thin Red Line of Steel" fame, who really won Balaklava, right? Don't forget the Iniskillings and the Dragoon Guards !

WRONG!

The Red Poppy is a sign of peace - the white poppy is a miserable excuse worn by people who do not understand. I have nothing but contempt for those that belittle the memory of the brave, that gave their lives that we can now live in freedom, by wearing a white poppy.

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/traditions/documents/InFlandersField_1.htm

S/He didn't say 'red poppy', he said 'red'. Red is the colour of danger, violence, anger and blood.

I can very much sympathise with I.V. Stailins sentiments why s/he would prefer to wear white. I have nothing but contempt for pretencious fools who think their way is the only way and belittle other for not being a sheep and following suit.

We can all remember in our own way. Some of us on here have lost relatives to wars.

Don't forget the Iniskillings and the Dragoon Guards !
Enniskillen I think. Irish brigade.

Enniskillen I think. Irish brigade.

I'm honestly not sure, as I've seen it spelt both ways. Authoritative source?

Authoritative source?

I'm Irish :D

I'm Irish :D

That's nice, but have you had a few pints already?

That's nice, but have you had a few pints already?
Touche ;)

I'm not picking, I'm just saying the regiment is the Enniskillen Dragoons, part of the 5th Royal Irish Lancers. Enniskillen is a town in Co. Fermanagh, in Northern Ireland.

I think we should change it from Veterans Day back to Armistace Day and have Memorial Day as remembering all of the fallen & served soldiers. Perhaps maybe even just make another Veterans Day, perhaps June 6?

No such thing in Germany...no rememberance day, no veterans, no statues.
Strange world sometimes.

I for my part will acknowledge them as well.

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_ergebnis_detail.asp?id=3747559&sec_id=F4DB11BCA6FBAD061ACF3032C1BDC2D0784574F4

When I went to Austria (the Salzburg region) I noted memorials in almost all of the towns and villages I visited to those who died in both wars. Wonder why it is different in Austria to Germany, when on both occasions (although in WW2, admittedly the Austrians had been annexed) the Germans and Austrians were the main protagonists.

Texas, my good man, Texas. Alcohol is expensive here.
$3 is expensive? I'm paying the equivalent of about $5.50 for a pint of Guinness here in London.

For those who think Kipling was all about glorifying the noble act of war:

If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.

- 'Common Form", 1919

Quand au bout de huit jours le repos terminé
On va reprendre les tranchées
Notre place est si utile
Que sans nous on prend la pile
Mais c'est fini on en a assez
Personne ne veut plus marcher
Et le coeur bien gros comm' dans un sanglot
On dit adieu aux civelots
Même sans tambours, même sans trompette
On s'en va là-haut, en baissant la tête.


Adieu la vie, adieu l'amour
Adieu toutes les femmes
C'est bien fini, c'est pour toujours
De cette guerre infâme
C'est à Craonne, sur le plateau
Qu'on doit laisser sa peau,
Car nous sommes tous condamnés
Nous sommes les sacrifiés.


Huit jours de tranchées, huit jours de souffrance,
Pourtant on a l'espérance
Que ce soir viendra la relève
Que nous attendons sans trêve
Soudain dans la nuit et dans le silence
On voit quelqu'un qui s'avance
C'est un officier de chasseurs à pied
Qui vient pour nous remplacer,
Doucement dans l'ombre sous la pluie qui tombe
Les petits chasseurs vont chercher leur tombes.


C'est malheureux de voir sur les grands boulevards
Tous ces gros qui font la foire Si pour eux la vie est rose
Pour nous, c'est pas la même chose
Au lieu de s'cacher tous ces embusqués
Feraient mieux d'monter aux tranchées
Pour défendre leurs biens, car nous n'avons rien
Nous autres les pauvres purotins
Tous les camarades sont tendus-là.
Pour défend'les biens de ces messieurs là.


Ceux qu'ont le pognon, ceux-là reviendront
Car c'est pour eux qu'on crève
Mais c'est fini, car les trouffions
Vont tous se mettr' en grève
Vont tous se mettr' en grève
Ce sera votre tour messieurs les gros
De monter sur l'plateau
Car si vous voulez la guerre
Payez-là de votre peau.

I liked that poem ... a lot! And some few of those "in power" do really care. I know a few of them.

i like that poem too. the only war i can think of that it doesnt apply to is the second world war, which was a necessary war, and which it was sweet and honourable to die in. also, by those in power, i meant politicians, not generals, as i think you may have meant?

I am a lifetime member of the Royal Canadian Legion, as I served with the Canadian Forces for 3 years (Master Corporal) with the Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment.

Je Me Souviens
We will not forget

P.S. For those of you who don't speak French, "Je me Souviens" means "I will remember"

To my wife, and my sister-in-law, and their cousin; to my father-in-law, and his brother; to my grandfathers-in-law; To my father, and his brothers; To Elizabeth Cutts Swindler (God rest her soul), and her brother; To all my former shipmates; and to all the others who have stood up, and toed the line:

God bless ye, thou bold and faithful.

:: raises glass ::

To my wife, and my sister-in-law, and their cousin; to my father-in-law, and his brother; to my grandfathers-in-law; To my father, and his brothers; To Elizabeth Cutts Swindler (God rest her soul), and her brother; To all my former shipmates; and to all the others who have stood up, and toed the line:

God bless ye, thou bold and faithful.

:: raises glass ::

*raises glass*

To all the veterans of the Armed Forces and to those currently serving to protect the freedoms that we cherish.

God Bless you all

I'd like to take a moment to just ask everyone here to give some thought and care today (as I am sure you all will or have), to all the veterans (civilian and military alike) of all the wars across the world. Regardless of the politics or consequences, we must recognize the human sacrifice, cost, and price that these men and women and children paid. Today, Remembrance Day, is a day to honour the humanity irrevocably lost and damaged during the brutal and unthinkable conflicts that have occured throughout our history.

To me it was simply the first poppy I came upon to post. But in defference to your poor sensitive soul, I'll change it. :rolleyes:

Good ... and see that you don't do it again.


As for the second half, I didn't comment on it because you were exactly correct, and I didn't think it needed comment.

But it was the second half that showed the "[/liberal rant]" part to be sarcasm. You have to take my posts as a whole, not in bits and pieces. :p

When I went to Austria (the Salzburg region) I noted memorials in almost all of the towns and villages I visited to those who died in both wars. Wonder why it is different in Austria to Germany, when on both occasions (although in WW2, admittedly the Austrians had been annexed) the Germans and Austrians were the main protagonists.
There are a few little things, not more than a stile. It always says something along the lines of "In memory of all those who died in the wars. May it never happen again." They're not talking about heroes, which is I guess my point.

I mean, look at the statues here in Australia in Canberra. They are huge.

And a day to remember the fallen? The only people killed we remember in Germany are the victims of the Holocaust.
As for Austria...yeah, they have declared themselves seperate, you wouldn't get away with calling an Austrian German.