NationStates Jolt Archive

Scared enough that they're talking about scaling back some of the PATRIOT Act. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051109/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act)

WASHINGTON - Congress is moving to curb some of the police powers it gave the Bush administration after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, including imposing new restrictions on the FBI's access to private phone and financial records.

A budding House-Senate deal on the expiring USA Patriot Act includes new limits on federal law enforcement powers and rejects the Bush administration's request to grant the FBI authority to get administrative subpoenas for wiretaps and other covert devices without a judge's approval....

Under the agreement, for the first time since the act became law, judges would get the authority to reject national security letters giving the government secret access to people's phone and e-mail records, financial data and favorite Internet sites.

Holders of such information — such as banks and Internet providers — could challenge the letters in court for the first time, said congressional aides involved in merging separate, earlier-passed House and Senate bills reauthorizing the expiring Patriot Act.

I'm especially pleased at the national security letter challenge option, especially since it seems like that provision has been getting used an awful lot lately. Oh, and because of this line in the story:
The Bush administration contends there have been no abuses.
Which means, of course, that it's been abused like an Iraqi at Abu Ghraib.

What this really means is that Bush is the lamest of lame ducks now. His own party is turning on him. Harriet Miers. ANWR. The PATRIOT Act. The Anti-Torture Statute. Congresscritters are playing the "cover your ass" game now, thank goodness. A little fear is a healthy thing in a politician.

I'm going to assume you're refering to the Republicans in D.C., as opposed to the general Republican citizenry?

I'm going to assume you're refering to the Republicans in D.C., as opposed to the general Republican citizenry?
Yeah--Republican congresscritters. I'll edit the title to reflect that.

Yeah--Republican congresscritters. I'll edit the title to reflect that.

Thanks, I get frustrated when people act like the rest of the US is divided as black and white as the political parties in D.C.

Thanks, I get frustrated when people act like the rest of the US is divided as black and white as the political parties in D.C.
De nada. Hell, partisan as I am, I've voted for Republicans in the past and could conceive of doing so again--a moderate to liberal Republican, that is, assuming they haven't been wiped out already.

Ironically, I think the US is starting to move back to a more moderate stance. It would appear that the partisan politics in Washington causing more problems than are being solved has frustrated enough of the public that perhaps we'll see more moderates during the next elections (this would be based on the recent regional elections).

Ironically, I think the US is starting to move back to a more moderate stance. It would appear that the partisan politics in Washington causing more problems than are being solved has frustrated enough of the public that perhaps we'll see more moderates during the next elections (this would be based on the recent regional elections).
I hope you're right. I've said it in other threads in the past--I like divided government. It forces compromise and moderate policy, and the ability of an opposition party to investigate malfeasance forces a slightly higher level of openness in government.

Until they start playing hardball partisan politics and forget about the best interest of the peoples they represent. Most of the partisan politics seems to be designed to discredit the other political party, as opposed to improve the well-being of the citizenry.

I always work under the assumption that we the people are the last ones that any of them are thinking about. I vote for Democrats more often because their rhetoric requires them to toss me a bone every once in a while, while the Republicans tend to spit on me, since I'm neither an evangelical christian nor a corporation.

But at least when you have some opposition--one party controlling Congress and the other the White House, or even just some division in the Congress, in order for them to fuck us, they have to stop fucking each other so hard, and so the pounding on us eases up a bit. When there's no opposition in place, it's just ass-tearing fucking, no lube, all the time, and that just gets old after a while.

Ba-dump

Oh yeah, no abuses at all.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/news/item.php?keyid=9090&category=1&scategory=0

How scared are they?


Scared enough to not want GW around for fear of his negative affect on their political futures?

Like on IMUS yesterday (http://www.dccc.org/stakeholder/archives/003860.html) when Republican JD HAyworth had the following exchange?



IMUS: Would you just answer my question, would you like [President Bush] to come to Arizona and cut campaign commercials and run them on those TV stations everywhere?

REP. HAYWORTH: In a word, no. At this time.

IMUS: That's being honest. J.D. Hayworth here on the "Imus in the morning" program.



GW is becoming viewed as political poison by his own party.

I gots an idea: let's use USA PATRIOT to investigate our own Congressmen for their being threats to national security! See how they like them apples...:cool:

I gots an idea: let's use USA PATRIOT to investigate our own Congressmen for their being threats to national security! See how they like them apples...:cool:

Now that would be FUN!

De nada. Hell, partisan as I am, I've voted for Republicans in the past and could conceive of doing so again--a moderate to liberal Republican, that is, assuming they haven't been wiped out already.

they haven't been... some of us are economically conservative but moderate socially.

in defense of the Patriot Act:

There has not been a terrorist hit in the US since 9/11 (someone fill me in if i forgot one).

Whether or not that is due to the Patriot Act allowing cops/feds to stop would-be terrorists is debatable (though I imagine there have been some terrorist plans foiled)... what is not debatable is that there hasn't been another hit in the US.

it has not decreased my freedom one bit. we should make a poll for Americans: Has the Patriot Act affected you?

Government's #1 job (imo) is to protect its citizens from criminals (or otherwise, those who would do harm).

This is good news. I'm not a U.S. citizen, so the privacy aspects don't affect me, but it is certainly good to hear that the Republicans who so hastily granted Bush the key to the country after 9/11 are realising it was a bad idea.

And here was I thinking it would be the people would have to take the power back. You're right; a little mid-term election fear is healthy in a politician.

This sort of thing seems to happen in the Republican Party a lot. They all went after Clinton's throat at first for his impeachment, but then backed off at the end because the public didn't like them being like maddened political hounds baying for blood. Same deal here - they were all too happy to trample over civil liberties in the name of national 'security', but the public isn't reacting too well to it. Time to get off your high horse, Georgie-Boy.

There has not been a terrorist hit in the US since 9/11 (someone fill me in if i forgot one).
Which is of course like saying there were no terrorist hits between the First World Trade Center Attack and September 11, 2001. That is only an eight year span of time, so logic leads us to believe the Patriot Act has spared us from innumerable terrorist attacks that would have occurred in the past four years.

it has not decreased my freedom one bit. we should make a poll for Americans: Has the Patriot Act affected you?

Government's #1 job (imo) is to protect its citizens from criminals (or otherwise, those who would do harm).
Here's the thing--you don't know that it hasn't decreased your freedom. The most egregious parts of the PATRIOT Act allow the FBI and other government agencies to learn stuff about you without informing you that you're being investigated. Secret investigations and open societies don't mix.