NationStates Jolt Archive


Those wacky Russians are at it again!

Greater Valia
10-11-2005, 04:26
Plasma stealth? (http://www.aeronautics.ru/plasma04.htm)

"A Russian scientific research organisation is to offer for export a 'bolt-on' stealth device that it claims renders non-stealthy aircraft practically invisible to radar. The system, which envelops the aircraft in a cloak of ionised gas known as a plasma, is said to be fully developed, with work on a "third-generation visibility-reduction system" under way.

Keldysh NITs (Nauchno-Issledovatelskiy Tsentr or Scientific Research Centre) is making the claims. According to its director, Anatoliy Koroteyev, the system weighs less than 100kg and consumes little more than several dozen kW of power.

Given the state of the Russian economy, analysts consider it unlikely that any of NITs' work has been applied to Russian Air Force aircraft. According to Koroteyev, however, the system will soon be offered for export.

By installing the system, a typical aircraft radar cross-section (RCS) might be cut "by more than 100 times", Keldysh NITs officials said. This would be much the same RCS as dedicated US stealth aircraft such as the Lockheed Martin F-117 stealth fighter and the Northrop Grumman B-2 stealth bomber.

The claims are given credence by corroborating information on the status of Russian aerospace plasma research acquired by Jane's Defence Weekly last year. Russian work in the use of plasmas that purported to reduce aircraft drag by as much as 30% was collated by British Aerospace (BAe) in the mid-1990s. BAe has since been trying to verify the Russian claims in experiments carried out jointly with the UK Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) and the UK Ministry of Defence (JDW 17 June 1998).

One of the spin-offs of 'plasma aerodynamics', Russian officials told BAe, was that it vastly reduced an aircraft's RCS. The absorption of radio waves by plasmas is well known as the communications black-out that a space vehicle encounters on re-entry is caused by the shielding effects of plasma. This builds naturally in front of the spacecraft as it hits the Earth's atmosphere and shocks the air to high temperature.

The same principle applies to the absorption of radar energy. Although the aircraft would appear to glow like a lightbulb, using plasma generators all around the airframe, it would be almost invisible on a radar screen, Russian officials maintain.

In the opinion of designers at Mikoyan and Sukhoi, the expense of all-embracing low-observable technology as applied in the US Air Force's F-117 and B-2 outweighs its effectiveness. Russians prefer to stress the 'balance' achieved in their latest-generation of fighter designs between aerodynamic efficiency and stealth. The Mikoyan 1-44 and Sukhoi S-37 technology demonstrators, both of which have been rolled out in the past 18 months, are supposed to make use of radar-absorbent paint and materials but are short of inherent stealth features.

Keldysh NITs said that "first- and second-" generation plasma-generators had been tested on the ground and in flight. The centre is working on a third-generation system "based on new physical principles", a possible reference to the use of electrostatic energy around an airframe to reduce RCS. Others believe the Russians could be attempting to duplicate secret work under way in the USA to make aircraft invisible to the human eye by using 'smart skins' that mimic their background."
DrunkenDove
10-11-2005, 04:29
Cool. But isn't plasma superheated gas? Wouldn't that do bad things to the plane and make the plane easy to detect with thermal scanning?
Fass
10-11-2005, 04:31
What are we supposed to discuss here? It seems like you forgot that.
Colodia
10-11-2005, 04:33
What are we supposed to discuss here? It seems like you forgot that.
Well you helped push a discussion forward as opposed to post 2, eh?
Greater Valia
10-11-2005, 04:33
What are we supposed to discuss here? It seems like you forgot that.

Silly me. I assumed that you all were smart enough to figure something to say about this. And once again I have overestimated the intelligence of the average Generalite.

To me, it seems like covering a plane in a pocket of superheated gas is a bad idea. But the concept intrigues me mainly since the approach to stealth is so radically different that the Western one.
Non Aligned States
10-11-2005, 04:40
I remember reading about this before, although I haven't heard about any new developments recently. It would make the plane easy to pick up with thermal imaging and visual sighting, but since the Russians never did bother to go with covered exhaust ports, thats probably not an issue with them. Besides, doesn't radar have a greater detection range then thermal?

I figure they would probably use this to fool radar guided SAMs and AMRAAMS.
Murderous maniacs
10-11-2005, 04:41
you do realise that i now have to go home and try to build my own radar stealth device on this principle?
if only i had something to put it on
Fass
10-11-2005, 04:42
Silly me. I assumed that you all were smart enough to figure something to say about this. And once again I have overestimated the intelligence of the average Generalite.

To me, it seems like covering a plane in a pocket of superheated gas is a bad idea. But the concept intrigues me mainly since the approach to stealth is so radically different that the Western one.

This isn't a news aggregator. It's a discussion forum, and just posting articles without giving any sort of opinion or basis for discussion is mod actionable. I was urging you to present something to that effect before that happens. You're welcome.
Greater Valia
10-11-2005, 04:44
you do realise that i now have to go home and try to build my own radar stealth device on this principle?
if only i had something to put it on

Uh. Your car maybe? :D
Greater Valia
10-11-2005, 04:46
This isn't a news aggregator. It's a discussion forum, and just posting articles without giving any sort of opinion or basis for discussion is mod actionable. I was urging you to present something to that effect before that happens. You're welcome.

Well hell. Eutrusca seems to get away with it. And anyways, theres people talking about it so the point is moot.
Fass
10-11-2005, 04:48
Well hell. Eutrusca seems to get away with it.

Ever noticed those short little paragraphs with his opinion he nowadays has before every article he cites? He learned the hard way. You shouldn't have to repeat the same mistake.
Greater Valia
10-11-2005, 04:49
Ever noticed those short little paragraphs with his opinion he nowadays has before every article he cites? He learned the hard way. You shouldn't have to repeat the same mistake.

No. I started ignoring his posts about a month ago.
DrunkenDove
10-11-2005, 04:52
No. I started ignoring his posts about a month ago.

You shouldn't. He's fun to argue with.
Sick Nightmares
10-11-2005, 04:55
you do realise that i now have to go home and try to build my own radar stealth device on this principle?
if only i had something to put it on
Here ya go!
http://static.flickr.com/24/61763979_a0afd40e44.jpg
Mondoth
10-11-2005, 05:01
I'd heard they were doing this but I haven't heard that it was a practical technology yet.

To clear up some confusion: Plasma is actually supercharged gas, the most common way to get this effect is in nature is friction (such as that caused by reentering the atmosphere very fast). In fact, some experimental high speed aircraft have demonstrated the ability to generate limited amounts of plasma on their leading edges without anysort of boost, though its not enough to form anysort of stealth shield. and most military aircraft are designed to be able to withstand huge amounts of heat from engine exaust and friction from high speed flying.

The main problem is that the shield works two ways, You may be invisible to radar, but your radar is pretty much useless while the shield is active, same with any sort of communications including GPS systems almost necesary for flights of any distance. Magnetic compasses would probably also be useless.
And to add insult to injury, an aircraft 'prtected' by such a device would light up like a lightbulb in both visible spectrum (Which would actually be good for daytime flying) and in InfraRed spectrum (Not to be confused with 'thermal imaging' although something giving off heat is also always giving of light in the IR spectrum, something giving off Light in the IR spectrum is not always hot) and is thus vulnerable to so called 'Heat Seeking' missiles (WHich again, actually seek IR energy sources rather than hot spots)
IMO the system has too many drawbacks to be practical.
Liverbreath
10-11-2005, 05:12
I'd heard they were doing this but I haven't heard that it was a practical technology yet.

To clear up some confusion: Plasma is actually supercharged gas, the most common way to get this effect is in nature is friction (such as that caused by reentering the atmosphere very fast). In fact, some experimental high speed aircraft have demonstrated the ability to generate limited amounts of plasma on their leading edges without anysort of boost, though its not enough to form anysort of stealth shield. and most military aircraft are designed to be able to withstand huge amounts of heat from engine exaust and friction from high speed flying.

The main problem is that the shield works two ways, You may be invisible to radar, but your radar is pretty much useless while the shield is active, same with any sort of communications including GPS systems almost necesary for flights of any distance. Magnetic compasses would probably also be useless.
And to add insult to injury, an aircraft 'prtected' by such a device would light up like a lightbulb in both visible spectrum (Which would actually be good for daytime flying) and in InfraRed spectrum (Not to be confused with 'thermal imaging' although something giving off heat is also always giving of light in the IR spectrum, something giving off Light in the IR spectrum is not always hot) and is thus vulnerable to so called 'Heat Seeking' missiles (WHich again, actually seek IR energy sources rather than hot spots)
IMO the system has too many drawbacks to be practical.


From what I have been told this is not a magnetic version but an Ion Wind type of envelope. Either way it has easily tracked and targeted byproducts. Still enough to force a re-tooling of an enemies early detection capabilities though.
Marrakech II
10-11-2005, 05:23
Here ya go!
http://static.flickr.com/24/61763979_a0afd40e44.jpg

Wouldnt the plasma just burn the paper?!
Non Aligned States
10-11-2005, 05:29
From what I have been told this is not a magnetic version but an Ion Wind type of envelope. Either way it has easily tracked and targeted byproducts. Still enough to force a re-tooling of an enemies early detection capabilities though.

Hmmm, that might be a very good idea for strategic purposes if the opponent you have is expecting conventional planes. Wartime retooling isn't going to go very fast or effectively if you can press the advantage.