NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1500762.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1500718.htm

At a Glance
16 arrested in raids conducted by more than 400 police in Sydney and Melbourne. 9 arrested in Melbourne; 7 in Sydney.
Man shot during raid at Green Valley in Sydney's south-west after first firing on police.
The police chiefs of New South Wales and Victoria say the raids foiled a terrorist plot.
The Muslim community has reacted with surprise to the raids.

...

Great, terrorists in Australia and new anti-terror laws coming in. Just what we need after being on the radar map for terrorists after our involvement in Iraq.

The funny thing in the papers is that they said that the group was formless and had no objectives. Doesn't really say very much about what they were going to do as terrorists. I'd like to see a list of the stuff they got off the group too since its all fuzzy at the moment.

According to the report on NPR this morning, they found the raw chemicals for explosives. And, while trying to arrest one suspect, he drew a pistol and shot police, who shot him. They found another pistol in his backpack.

Pistols, IIRC, are completely illegal in Australia.

They were apparently led by another imam who has a reputation for vitriolic speeches.

Arrests are apparently continuing - there may be more suspects.

i was watching Channel Ten this morning (WA) and they were showing more detail on Melbourne (then they did tonight which just showed the camerpeople getting bashed) and apparently a few of the people were arrested for membership not actual participation in any plans. We shall see how things unfold.

"The gapping jaw of the police state seems to yawn a little further today"

From The Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051108.waustralia1108/BNStory/International/

Sydney — Police arrested 17 terror suspects in Australia's two biggest cities Tuesday in raids authorities said foiled a plot to carry out a catastrophic terror attack. A radical Muslim cleric known for praising Osama bin Laden was charged with masterminding the plot.

More than 500 police backed up by helicopters were involved in raids across Sydney and Melbourne, arresting eight men in Sydney and nine in Melbourne and seizing chemicals, weapons, computers and backpacks.

One suspect was in critical condition after being shot in the neck during a gunfight with police, said police Commissioner Graeme Morgan. An officer was also slightly wounded.

One of the suspects wanted to die a martyr, a police officer said in court.

"I'm satisfied that we have disrupted what I would regard as the final stages of a large-scale terrorist attack ... here in Australia," New South Wales Police Commissioner Ken Moroney told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

He later said he expected more arrests "in coming days and weeks."

Late Tuesday night, police raided another Sydney home as part of the terror probe, an Australian Federal Police spokesman said on condition of anonymity per government policy. There were no immediate arrests.

Prime Minister John Howard, who last week warned of a possible terror attack in Australia, thanked security forces in a nationally televised news conference.

"This country has never been immune from a possible terrorist attack," he said. "That remains the situation today and it will be the situation tomorrow."

Abu Bakr -- an Algerian-Australian who has said he would be violating his faith if he warned his students not to join the jihad, or holy war, in Iraq -- was among nine men who appeared Tuesday morning in Melbourne Magistrates Court charged with being members of a terror group.

Prosecutor Richard Maidment told the court the nine planned to kill "innocent men and women in Australia."

"The members of the Sydney group have been gathering chemicals of a kind that were used in the London Underground bombings," Mr. Maidment said. "Each of the members of the group are committed to the cause of violent jihad."

He said they underwent military-style training at a rural camp northeast of Melbourne.

Seven of the suspects, including Mr. Bakr, were ordered detained until a court appearance on Jan. 31. Two others were to hear Wednesday whether their application to be released on bail was granted.

Detective Sergeant Chris Murray told the court police surveillance had picked up one suspect, 20-year-old Abdulla Merhi, pleading for permission to become a martyr during discussions with other suspects.

Sgt. Murray said it was clear to police he wanted to die "similar to the nature of a suicide bomber."

Seven men arrested in Sydney were held in cells at a tightly guarded downtown court during a five-minute hearing Tuesday afternoon at which they were ordered held until another hearing on Friday on charges of preparing a terror act by manufacturing explosives.

The eighth Sydney suspect, the man shot by police, was under guard in hospital and was not immediately charged.

Defence lawyer Adam Houda, who was representing at least one suspect, told reporters outside the court that the charges were a "scandalous political prosecution."

"There's no evidence that terrorism was contemplated or being planned by any particular person at any particular time or at any particular place," he said.

Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty said the fact that a suspect fired at police "serves to show that we are dealing with very serious issues here."

Angry supporters of the suspects clashed violently with news cameramen in Melbourne and Sydney.

Commissioner Moroney said possible bomb-making materials were found during the raids, including chemicals which, "when combined in combinations of one or more, certainly could be highly volatile."

Police declined to give details of the likely target of the attack, but New South Wales Police Minister Carl Scully said: "I was satisfied that this state was under an imminent threat of potentially a catastrophic terrorist act ... involving the attempted stockpiling of chemicals and related materials that could be used in a major explosion."

Melbourne lawyer Rob Stary said he represented eight of the Melbourne suspects including Mr. Bakr, who in the past has called al-Qaeda mastermind Osama bin Laden a "great man." Mr. Bakr leads a fundamentalist Islamic group in the southern city of Melbourne where he has lived since 1989.

Australia has never been hit by a major terror attack, but its citizens have repeatedly been targeted overseas, particularly in neighbouring Indonesia, where dozens of Australians have been killed in bomb blasts since 2002.

Last week, Mr. Howard rushed through Parliament an amendment to terror laws he said would beef up police powers to arrest suspects plotting attacks. Melbourne police said the new powers helped them carry out their raids.

Opponents say Mr. Howard's strong support for the U.S.-led strikes on Iraq and decision to send troops there and to Afghanistan have made it inevitable Australia will be attacked.

Going into East Timor made it inevitable, if you don't believe me, believe bin Laden.

"We warned Australia ... against its despicable effort to separate East Timor"

East Timor being part of the Muslim world (a 93% Catholic part).

I think the people who say that we are threatened because we do things that piss terrorists off are looking at this the wrong way.

We should be proud that our actions anger the most vicious scum on Earth. If we were doing things that didn't anger them, that's the time to worry.

The people who suggest that our actions are what brings us danger are saying (from the other side) that we should let their agenda influence us.

Going into East Timor made it inevitable, if you don't believe me, believe bin Laden.

"We warned Australia ... against its despicable effort to separate East Timor"

East Timor being part of the Muslim world (a 93% Catholic part).

I think the people who say that we are threatened because we do things that piss terrorists off are looking at this the wrong way.

We should be proud that our actions anger the most vicious scum on Earth. If we were doing things that didn't anger them, that's the time to worry.

The people who suggest that our actions are what brings us danger are saying (from the other side) that we should let their agenda influence us.

East Timor may not be the greatest example to use there, considering we only wanted it for its resources...and we left its people to rot under Indonesian rule for decades before we did anything about it...

East Timor may not be the greatest example to use there, considering we only wanted it for its resources...and we left its people to rot under Indonesian rule for decades before we did anything about it...

That doesn't change the fact that 93 percent of the people there are Catholic.

Ahh.. Osama "The Great Emancipator" :D

Ahh.. Osama "The Great Emancipator" :D

You see before you, another Lincoln!

I know it doesn't change the fact that they're Catholic, but we didn't go in there with the sense of obligation to freedom that the guy I was quoting implied. We went in there for money and resources. Which came to light with the oil scandal.

I know it doesn't change the fact that they're Catholic, but we didn't go in there with the sense of obligation to freedom that the guy I was quoting implied. We went in there for money and resources. Which came to light with the oil scandal.

Yes, it was scandalous. But not really something that Bin Laden can claim - he's claiming that you did it to a Moslem country, which it most definitely is not.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1500762.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1500718.htm

At a Glance
16 arrested in raids conducted by more than 400 police in Sydney and Melbourne. 9 arrested in Melbourne; 7 in Sydney.
Man shot during raid at Green Valley in Sydney's south-west after first firing on police.
The police chiefs of New South Wales and Victoria say the raids foiled a terrorist plot.
The Muslim community has reacted with surprise to the raids.

...

Great, terrorists in Australia and new anti-terror laws coming in. Just what we need after being on the radar map for terrorists after our involvement in Iraq.
Were your troops in Iraq when your people were first bombed in Bali? Why do you think that all your terrorist troubles are caused by Iraq?

"Scandal"? Put the sledgehammer down. It was a negotiation over the oil field in the Timor Sea. All the scandal amounted to was each government trying to get the best deal it could for the interests of the people each government represented.

There were people who disagreed with the Government's position, but that doesn't make a scandal. The talk of "scandal" was nothing more than bluster from people who wanted East Timor to have a greater share.

These dudes argue the case pretty damned well, so I'll leave it to them:

http://troppoarmadillo.ubersportingpundit.com/archives/008786.html

http://thecurrencylad.blogspot.com/2005/03/australia-and-east-timor-sunshine-of.html

we left its people to rot under Indonesian rule for decades before we did anything about it...

Can you suggest a better solution than the one that was found? No, because the only alternative for securing East Timor's independence was war with Indonesia, and discussions inside the Australian Government had got to the point of contemplating war, there was even a proposal to bomb TNI bases in Java as a prelude to invasion.

We, Indonesia, and East Timor got the best of both worlds, independence and freedom for East Timor, and no war between Australia and Indonesia.

Also, the blame for leaving the East Timorese under the Indonesians doesn't rest with the current Government.

But not really something that Bin Laden can claim - he's claiming that you did it to a Moslem country, which it most definitely is not.

What he said.

Were your troops in Iraq when your people were first bombed in Bali? Why do you think that all your terrorist troubles are caused by Iraq?

Substitute for a real argument (and essentially all the arguments against the war don't address the real reason, enforcement of the ceasefire agreement of 1991)

Did they ever reveal what the intended target was?

Did they ever reveal what the intended target was?
Nope.
So far it is absolutely nothing.

They walk about proclaiming a great anti-terror success, but so far none of them has been proven to do anything - and even once they are convicted, they didn't have explosives or weapons, they would simply be guilty of thought-crime.

Nope.
So far it is absolutely nothing.

They walk about proclaiming a great anti-terror success, but so far none of them has been proven to do anything - and even once they are convicted, they didn't have explosives or weapons, they would simply be guilty of thought-crime.
is it just me, or are a large majority of terror-suspect cases like this? oh well, if they try and get me, they'd better get me the first time or else ... :mp5: :sniper: :gundge: <flamethrower> <nuke>

Well, the Moslems in Australia are now "Alert and Alarmed" instead of "Alert but not Alarmed". Some of cases against the suspects look rather weak so far.

Well, the Moslems in Australia are now "Alert and Alarmed" instead of "Alert but not Alarmed". Some of cases against the suspects look rather weak so far.

I guess having two illegal handguns and firing one of that at police (and hitting one) is rather "weak".

I guess having two illegal handguns and firing one of that at police (and hitting one) is rather "weak".

The case of assault on officers of the law and possession of illegal weapons is one thing. But what about the others? It says possession of chemicals when combined would become volatile, but that doesn't say very much. I have a gas stove that if I combined with fire would also be very volatile. And a bit of chemical fertilizer in the garden mixed with the petrol in my gas tank would also be probably quite volatile.

I think I'm going to need a whole lot more details. Details the Australian government is not giving.

Reminds me of that case where they found a cache of plastic guns and fake knives and proclaimed it a "great success"