NationStates Jolt Archive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai

Anyone ever heard of it? any Bahais here? I was thinking of converting from Christianity, after Ive read all the relevent material, like some of the Bahai holy book (cant remember the name).

I remeber there was a guy when I was at school who went Baha'i for a while, but other than that I know next to nothing about it.

I've heard of it, but my understanding is pretty limited. I understand it to be an amalgamation of Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, and Christian teachings, with some elements not borrowed from any of those faiths. I think they also teach that all faiths worship the same god in different ways, and so everyone is going to be okay in the end as long as they do what is right.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as Baha'i is a faith to which I have received limited exposure and am interested in learning more about.

In fact, it resembles a political movement as much as a religion.

I saw a flyer on a bulletin board for a Baha'i group meeting thing at my school.

They're mediocre.

It looks like a cross between Marxism and the Moonies. Steer well clear.

moonies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonies

As far as I know, it's just a meagre attempt to reconcile world religions under one rubric as if to say "we accept you all, so we must be authentic!"

Even though the faith's principles in reality contradict the teachings of those founders it lists.

In fact, it resembles a political movement as much as a religion.


Sorry, this is wrong. In fact the Baha'is should not join political parties.

The world has too many religions.

As far as I know, it's just a meagre attempt to reconcile world religions under one rubric as if to say "we accept you all, so we must be authentic!"

Even though the faith's principles in reality contradict the teachings of those founders it lists.

Sorry this is wrong also.

The world has too many religions.
This is true.

What is it about NSers? Never have I seen so many in need of brushing up on their Google skills in one place.

Olara']I've heard of it, but my understanding is pretty limited. I understand it to be an amalgamation of Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, and Christian teachings, with some elements not borrowed from any of those faiths. I think they also teach that all faiths worship the same god in different ways, and so everyone is going to be okay in the end as long as they do what is right.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as Baha'i is a faith to which I have received limited exposure and am interested in learning more about.

You have some of this right, but it is not an amalgamation of past religions. It is the continuation of the one same religion. Baha'u'llah teaches that all of the revealed religions have come from God and are one religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai

Anyone ever heard of it? any Bahais here? I was thinking of converting from Christianity, after Ive read all the relevent material, like some of the Bahai holy book (cant remember the name).
GoodThoughts

He is our resident here ... look through the threads he had a meditation time thread in the last few days

Sorry this is wrong also.
Never mind he has found this thread lol

What is it about NSers? Never have I seen so many in need of brushing up on their Google skills in one place.
But Google requires so much work!
First you have to move the cursor to the the address bar, and then you have to click the mouse. Then you have to type about 15 characters and press enter! And even then the work out isn't over as you have to click on another bar and type more characters and press enter again, and that will just lead to more clicking!
After all that work, how am I expected to read information and make sense of it?

Never mind he has found this thread lol

Yep, I'm on it. I should invite them over for pancakes and prayers.

It looks like a cross between Marxism and the Moonies. Steer well clear.

Man, this is really way off.

Yep, I'm on it. I should invite them over for pancakes and prayers.
Lol by the way I got my pictures from that gilbert offroading trip

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/gilbert
though we did not go through bimiji to get there so could not have imposed :)

After all that work, how am I expected to read information and make sense of it? Oh, well - you want to make sense of it... better buy an encyclopedia instead.

What is it about NSers? Never have I seen so many in need of brushing up on their Google skills in one place.
I'm convinced at any request for proof NSers respond by either typing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/randombullshit or by running to Google

Oh, well - you want to make sense of it... better buy an encyclopedia instead.
But then I'd have to carry the encyclopedia and risk getting a potentially lethal paper-cut off of it. No, much better to have other people do the work for me.

Lol by the way I got my pictures from that gilbert offroading trip

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/gilbert
though we did not go through bimiji to get there so could not have imposed :)

Looks like you guys aren't afraid of water. Next time stop by and I will burn some chicken and slop my world famous Sauce Rebecca on it for you. It's the best BBQ sauce in the world named after my youngest daughter.

Looks like you guys aren't afraid of water. Next time stop by and I will burn some chicken and slop my world famous Sauce Rebecca on it for you. It's the best BBQ sauce in the world named after my youngest daughter.
Lol will have to think about it ... you have to remember in total there were about 20 of us lol

Lol will have to think about it ... you have to remember in total there were about 20 of us lol

Give me a weeks notice so I can make sure I have enough sauce. One taste and you will never so no again to an invite again.
;)

Give me a weeks notice so I can make sure I have enough sauce. One taste and you will never so no again to an invite again.
;)
... well I am a bbq fan :) lol

Sorry this is wrong also.

How is it wrong?

According to Bahaism men can only serve in the Universal House of Justice [which is contrary to Zoroaster's teachings about gender equality] and that Prophets can come after Muhammad [which is contrary to Muhammad's teaching that he is the seal of the prophets].

The movement has too many loopholes to name a few, it's just a movement merging faith and environment like Mormonism, The Ahmadiyyah and Manichaenism.

Me know lots on religion...don't mess with me!

How is it wrong?

According to Bahaism men can only serve in the Universal House of Justice [which is contrary to Zoroaster's teachings about gender equality] and that Prophets can come after Muhammad [which is contrary to Muhammad's teaching that he is the seal of the prophets].

The movement has too many loopholes to name a few, it's just a movement merging faith and environment like Mormonism, The Ahmadiyyah and Manichaenism.

Me know lots on religion...don't mess with me!

*Puts down a fold out chair and fires up the grill*

This could get interesting.

Oh and Baha'u'llah wasn't unique in the notion that his faith was a continuation of a Divine Legacy, adherents of Islam and Mandaenism believe in the same thing.

How is it wrong?

According to Bahaism men can only serve in the Universal House of Justice [which is contrary to Zoroaster's teachings about gender equality] and that Prophets can come after Muhammad [which is contrary to Muhammad's teaching that he is the seal of the prophets].

The movement has too many loopholes to name a few, it's just a movement merging faith and environment like Mormonism, The Ahmadiyyah and Manichaenism.

Me know lots on religion...don't mess with me!\

The only thing you are right on here is that only men can be elected to the Universal of Justice. Muhammad and the seal of the prophets can have other interpretations. Just as Son of God is an title, so is Seal of the Prophets.


Bahá'u'lláh cautions people "of insight" not to allow their
interpretations of the Holy Scriptures to prevent them from
recognizing the Manifestation of God. Followers of each
religion have tended to allow their devotion to its Founder
to cause them to perceive His Revelation as the final Word
of God and to deny the possibility of the appearance of any
subsequent Prophet. This has been the case of Judaism,
Christianity and Islam. Bahá'u'lláh denies the validity of
this concept of finality both in relation to past Dispensations
and to His own. With regard to Muslims, He wrote in the
Kitáb-i-Íqán that the "people of the Qur'án ... have allowed
the words 'Seal of the Prophets' to veil their eyes", "to obscure their
understanding, and deprive them of the grace of all His manifold
bounties". He affirms that "this theme hath ... been a sore test
unto all mankind", and laments the fate of "those who, clinging
unto these words, have disbelieved in Him Who is their true
Revealer". The Báb refers to this same theme when He
warns: "Let not names shut you out as by a veil from Him Who is
their Lord, even the name Prophet, for such a name is but a creation
of His utterance."

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 243)

Oh and Baha'u'llah wasn't unique in the notion that his faith was a continuation of a Divine Legacy, adherents of Islam and Mandaenism believe in the same thing.

Boy, you did get that right. Baha'u'llah did not claim his statements on the subject were new or unique.

To argue, therefore, that differences of regulations, observances and other practices constitute any significant objection to the idea of revealed religion's essential oneness is to miss the purpose that these prescriptions served. More seriously, it misses the fundamental distinction between the eternal and the transitory features of religion's function. The essential message of religion is immutable. It is, in Bahá'u'lláh's words, "the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future". Its role in opening the way for the soul to enter into an ever-more mature relationship with its Creator-and in endowing it with an ever-greater measure of moral autonomy in disciplining the animal impulses of human nature-is not at all irreconcilable with its providing auxiliary guidance that enhances the process of civilization building.

(Commissioned by The Universal House of Justice, One Common Faith)

No, I'm sorry you're losing the argument. Within the Prophet Muhammad's lifetime two prophets arose and it coincided with the sura seal of the prophets which does literally mean that Muhammad is the last of the prophets. In Islam the Qur'an is complete and is seen as an abrogation of all world scriptures so there is no need for any more prophets or scriptures.

You can show me passages from your Kitab to further your argument in your eyes but that is still as futile as showing Upanisheds to a Christian. You have yet to answer about Zoroaster and equality.

What is it about NSers? Never have I seen so many in need of brushing up on their Google skills in one place.

Some people like talking to actual people, rather than just reading an outdated, perhaps misleading article.

Some people like talking to actual people, rather than just reading an outdated, perhaps misleading article.

While other prefer to investigate the truth for themselves, rather than simply relying on the knowledge, however, vast or limited, of others.

Link to: The Bahá'í Faith Homepage (http://www.bahai.org)

No, I'm sorry you're losing the argument. Within the Prophet Muhammad's lifetime two prophets arose and it coincided with the sura seal of the prophets which does literally mean that Muhammad is the last of the prophets. In Islam the Qur'an is complete and is seen as an abrogation of all world scriptures so there is no need for any more prophets or scriptures.

You can show me passages from your Kitab to further your argument in your eyes but that is still as futile as showing Upanisheds to a Christian. You have yet to answer about Zoroaster and equality.

I am not trying to argue. That would truly be unreligious. You made statements and I answered with quote from Baha'u'llah. If you don't like that answer I really can't do much about that.

As far as Zoroaster-- Baha'u'llah recognizes Him as a Prophet of God as do all Baha'is. The return of all the Prophets of God has been promised and today Baha'u'llah has come to fulfill that promise.

O my friend, were the bird of thy mind to explore the heavens of the Revelation of the Qur'án, were it to contemplate the realm of divine knowledge unfolded therein, thou wouldst assuredly find unnumbered doors of knowledge set open before thee. Thou wouldst certainly recognize that all these things which have in this day hindered this people from attaining the shores of the ocean of eternal grace, the same things in the Muhammadan Dispensation prevented the people of that age from recognizing that divine Luminary, and from testifying to His truth. Thou wilt also apprehend the mysteries of "return" and "revelation," and wilt securely abide within the loftiest chambers of certitude and assurance.

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 146)

At the university I attend, Muslim groups often set up displays to allow people some exposure to the teachings of Islam. One of the displays had an exerpt from the last message of Mohammed to the people, in which he said explicitly that there would be no prophets after him (the phrase "seal of the prophets" was not used).

Not terribly official sources, I'm afraid, but I'm too lazy to google it, and my own religious convictions are such that the discussion here is merely of academic interest to me.

I am not trying to argue. That would truly be unreligious. You made statements and I answered with quote from Baha'u'llah. If you don't like that answer I really can't do much about that.

As far as Zoroaster-- Baha'u'llah recognizes Him as a Prophet of God as do all Baha'is. The return of all the Prophets of God has been promised and today Baha'u'llah has come to fulfill that promise.

O my friend, were the bird of thy mind to explore the heavens of the Revelation of the Qur'án, were it to contemplate the realm of divine knowledge unfolded therein, thou wouldst assuredly find unnumbered doors of knowledge set open before thee. Thou wouldst certainly recognize that all these things which have in this day hindered this people from attaining the shores of the ocean of eternal grace, the same things in the Muhammadan Dispensation prevented the people of that age from recognizing that divine Luminary, and from testifying to His truth. Thou wilt also apprehend the mysteries of "return" and "revelation," and wilt securely abide within the loftiest chambers of certitude and assurance.

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 146)

But the argument was that Bahaism does contradict the founder's teachings such as Zoroaster and Muhammad. I mean it doesn't seem like God is making the rules, it seems like men are in the Universal House of Justice. I think you need to study more world religions to get a good analysis and see where I'm coming from.

Peace

Some people like talking to actual people, rather than just reading an outdated, perhaps misleading article.
And some people like to do some comparison research rather then just relying on sometimes outdated perhaps misleading people

For some crazy reason I think it is best to combine the two ... doing some research to attempt to get the basics down then expanding on that with discussion

But the argument was that Bahaism does contradict the founder's teachings such as Zoroaster and Muhammad. I mean it doesn't seem like God is making the rules, it seems like men are in the Universal House of Justice. I think you need to study more world religions to get a good analysis and see where I'm coming from.

Peace

Perhaps, at first glance some might say that there is contradiction, just as Christians say that of the teachings of Muhammad contradict the Gospel, just as some say that Christ contradicted Moses. We both know that neither Muhammad or Christ contradicted the previous Messengers. Baha'u'llah's teachings also do not contradict the Prophet Muhammad.

Perhaps, at first glance some might say that there is contradiction, just as Christians say that of the teachings of Muhammad contradict the Gospel, just as some say that Christ contradicted Moses.

The latter was the main source of people's dislike of Christ as recorded in the New Testament; the Pharisees thought he was out to destroy the Law (as they understood it), whereas he claimed to "fulfill" it.

The latter was the main source of people's dislike of Christ as recorded in the New Testament; the Pharisees thought he was out to destroy the Law (as they understood it), whereas he claimed to "fulfill" it.

True Christ did claim to "fulfill" the laws of Moses. Of course, there are those who would deny this and that is their right. Just as Christ's claims to fulfill the law of Moses were misunderstood, so is the claim Seal of the Prophets, or the title Son of God misunderstood today.

howdy, glad to see that there are more bahais out there, and some people who are interested in finding out about the bahai faith. 2 interesting teachings, i find, is the first, being the INDEPENDENT investigation of truth, so don't take other peoples word for it and you are also free to believe what you think is truth, and 2, the teaching that religion should Not be the cause of contention. so, what nice, happy things can we learn aye?:D . think for a second. are the principles of the bahai faith not very much in the benefit of humanity as a whole? and are we not extremely friendly, fun loving people, regardless of these apparent "loopholes" in our faith? if you hang out with some bahais, you will see, we're cool:cool: and for the record, no such thing as bahaism.:p ( i am determined to use all of the nice smilies)

I know it's really vapid to judge a religion by their temple, but the Lotus Temple is AWESOME looking.

Baha'i sounds pleasant enough. And I gotta respect the social activism (which isn't to say it's something unique among religions, I'd be quite shocked to find a religion which doesn't try to improve the condition of society).

I know it's really vapid to judge a religion by their temple, but the Lotus Temple is AWESOME looking.

Baha'i sounds pleasant enough. And I gotta respect the social activism (which isn't to say it's something unique among religions, I'd be quite shocked to find a religion which doesn't try to improve the condition of society).

The Lotus Temple is truly awe inspiring to me also. The Temple is a physical extension of spiritual realities; it's nine sides open to all the directions of the world and all the peoples and religions of the world.

I sometimes correspond with Good Thoughts and he has provided me with writings from his faith. These writings (scriptures?) have started to open a door for me. Too complicated and confusing to discuss, but, changes are going on. I'm not about to jump from the Catholic faith to the Baha'i, but it does have a lot of insight and understanding that we all could benefit from. The Lotus Temple is lovely, but I love to relax and meditate while watching the following for the new temple being built in Chile'.

http://temple.cl.bahai.org/

Perhaps, at first glance some might say that there is contradiction, just as Christians say that of the teachings of Muhammad contradict the Gospel, just as some say that Christ contradicted Moses. We both know that neither Muhammad or Christ contradicted the previous Messengers. Baha'u'llah's teachings also do not contradict the Prophet Muhammad.

But you have forgotten that Muhammad's teachings are seen as an abrogation of all world teachings from Adam to Jesus. The Qur'an says it is guarded from corruption and that Islam is the ultimate faith until the day of judgement. So it is more reasonable that the Qur'an is not consistant with gospels and Jewish traditions when it is seen as an abrogation. The kitab claims to supercede the Qur'an, when that cannot be possible (do you see what I mean?).

Look at it like this:

Bruno has a story.

The story is then retold by Jane who makes additions.

Ranjit then corrects Jane's and Bruno's story, making a complete and final abrogation.

Another person cannot just come along and abrogate Ranjit's story when his is the complete and final abrogation.

Do you know what I mean?

But you have forgotten that Muhammad's teachings are seen as an abrogation of all world teachings from Adam to Jesus. The Qur'an says it is guarded from corruption and that Islam is the ultimate faith until the day of judgement. So it is more reasonable that the Qur'an is not consistant with gospels and Jewish traditions when it is seen as an abrogation. The kitab claims to supercede the Qur'an, when that cannot be possible (do you see what I mean?).

Look at it like this:

Bruno has a story.

The story is then retold by Jane who makes additions.

Ranjit then corrects Jane's and Bruno's story, making a complete and final abrogation.

Another person cannot just come along and abrogate Ranjit's story when his is the complete and final abrogation.

Do you know what I mean?

I am out of town and really hungry; so I am going out to eat soon. And then I am going to see Jane Monheit at a club in Minneapolis.

Just a short answer for now with a more complete response later. Every word has a thousand meanings. Muhammad's Revelation was the end of an age or era. With the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, the Twin Trumpet blasts, a new spiritual age began. So, one way to look at the "Seal of the Prophets" is as a metaphor. Just as Christ did truly abrogate or destroy the message of Moses and Muhammad did not abrogate the spiritual teachings of Christ, Baha'u'llah has come to renew the spirtual message of all previous Messangers. Read what Baha'u'llah says and you will hear the voice of Mose, Jesus and Muhammad.

The Qur'an says it is guarded from corruption and that Islam is the ultimate faith until the day of judgement.

Say: desist from wickedness and transgression, and lay hold on trustworthiness and piety, candour and sincerity. This is the commandment of God, the Lord of the Judgement Day.

(Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 336)

The Judgement Day has come.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai

Anyone ever heard of it? any Bahais here? I was thinking of converting from Christianity, after Ive read all the relevent material, like some of the Bahai holy book (cant remember the name).Came across an article on it while looking something up in the world book encyclopedia. It looked very much like a religion that would suit me.

Came across an article on it while looking something up in the world book encyclopedia. It looked very much like a religion that would suit me.

There is a strong Baha'i community in Germany and a Temple or House of Worship. They would love to hear from you.