NationStates Jolt Archive

It doesn't matter if god exists or not. If he does, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. If he doesn't, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. With or without a god, the possibility of an afterlife is still there.

conclusion of this statement: You may or you may not believe in a god, but your belief won't change how the world works.

Agree, disagree, other?

It very much matters whether a god exists, and which one. If Agaxish Lord of Blood exists, then my not following him could result in me getting thrown into the Hellfires, so it is a matter of personal importance. Further, it will matter to you whether Agaxish Lord of Blood exists, because if I think he does I am required to sacrifice all unbelievers on the pyre.

[Not a follower of Blood Thirsty Gods]

Yeah :rolleyes: but then my more powerful god, the great Akahbasha, will declare your god a fake and obviously then, we must seek out and convert all the unbelievers or, failing that, burn them on the pyre and eat their charred flesh afterwards.

[Not a follower of blood thirsty gods]

You raise a good point. However:

Is this a good point because god's existance matters?

Or is this a good point because belief Does have an effect?

Yeah :rolleyes: but then my more powerful god, the great Akahbasha, will declare your god a fake and obviously then, we must seek out and convert all the unbelievers or, failing that, burn them on the pyre and eat their charred flesh afterwards.

[Not a follower of blood thirsty gods]
Not if we stick you first! THIS JIHAD'S ON, BITCH!

[Not a Zealot either]
You raise a good point. However:

Is this a good point because god's existance matters?

Or is this a good point because belief Does have an effect?
The psychological effects of gods are what everyone will notice. To rejoin the real world of realistic examples, Muslims have to pray 5 times a day, at specific times, and the effects of someone stopping whatever they are doing to pray can be felt by others. Further, since Islam prohibits booze and gambling, people in a largely Islamic area will be hard pressed to find a good liquor store or casino.
Then there is the fact that, on a personal level, one's religion is incredibly important, as whether I descend into an eternity of Hellfire or ascend into a land of milk and honey is rather an urgent issue shouldd you believe.

Not if we stick you first! THIS JIHAD'S ON, BITCH!

[Not a Zealot either]

The psychological effects of gods are what everyone will notice. To rejoin the real world of realistic examples, Muslims have to pray 5 times a day, at specific times, and the effects of someone stopping whatever they are doing to pray can be felt by others. Further, since Islam prohibits booze and gambling, people in a largely Islamic area will be hard pressed to find a good liquor store or casino.
Then there is the fact that, on a personal level, one's religion is incredibly important, as whether I descend into an eternity of Hellfire or ascend into a land of milk and honey is rather an urgent issue shouldd you believe.Problem with me being a current Muslim is that I gamble, plan on drinking (Damn Christian friends!), and I'm allergic to milk. I hate the taste too. Yuck.

Problem with me being a current Muslim is that I gamble, plan on drinking (Damn Christian friends!), and I'm allergic to milk. I hate the taste too. Yuck.
Yes, but your Colodia, I'm sure there are exemptions in the rules.

Thats a good point but,

Odin owns ye all.

So if you don't die in battle you're gonna have a boring afterlife.

Not if we stick you first! THIS JIHAD'S ON, BITCH!

[Not a Zealot either]

BRING IT ON!!! *charges*

[Still not a zealot yet]


The psychological effects of gods are what everyone will notice. To rejoin the real world of realistic examples, Muslims have to pray 5 times a day, at specific times, and the effects of someone stopping whatever they are doing to pray can be felt by others. Further, since Islam prohibits booze and gambling, people in a largely Islamic area will be hard pressed to find a good liquor store or casino.
Then there is the fact that, on a personal level, one's religion is incredibly important, as whether I descend into an eternity of Hellfire or ascend into a land of milk and honey is rather an urgent issue shouldd you believe.

Okay.

Therefore, belief obviously has a great effect on people. We know this to be true.

However, god's actual existance, makes no difference, right?

So in fact, the entire difference does not lie in whether or not god exists, but whether or not people will believe in him?

It doesn't matter if god exists or not. If he does, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. If he doesn't, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. With or without a god, the possibility of an afterlife is still there.

conclusion of this statement: You may or you may not believe in a god, but your belief won't change how the world works.

Agree, disagree, other?
Other.
You're entirely correct, but the godfearing are doing everything in their power to make this world a far more miserable place for everybody who lives here.

God always seemed to me to be like that kid in the back of the class who wore Goth clothing, got insanely good grades and didn't say a word until the last day of school when he comes in screaming, "Why don't you like me?!" pointing an uzi at everyone. And I was all like, "I didn't even know you existed, man."

The sooner you all acknowledge the Parthanon, the better.

Thats a good point but,

Odin owns ye all.

So if you don't die in battle you're gonna have a boring afterlife.

Good thing there's a holy war going on between us then. Wanna join? We'll all go to the afterlife afterwards (for one reason or another).

Btw - No more replies from me. Please, continue the discussions.

BRING IT ON!!! *charges*

[Still not a zealot yet]
*Detonates suicide vest, taking out Fallanour and a bus full of nuns*

[Not a Suicide Bomber, well not anymore because now I'm a corpse]
Okay.

Therefore, belief obviously has a great effect on people. We know this to be true.

However, god's actual existance, makes no difference, right?

So in fact, the entire difference does not lie in whether or not god exists, but whether or not people will believe in him?
In the physical world? I'd say rather not. However, you can never ignore the psychological effects religion has on people.
God makes peoples do crazy things.

God makes people do crazy things.
No, people do stupid things then use God as an excuse.
Slight difference there.

No, people do stupid things then use God as an excuse.
Slight difference there.
That depends.
Some people are honestly afraid of divine wrath, and so will follow through with something they wouldn't do normally because they feel that, if they don't, they go to Hell. In essence, their spiritual leader has put a gun to their soul.

Other people are crazy, and the insanity manifests as Divinely inspired. If you hear voices telling you to cut yourself, and become convinced that the voices are angels, then you are following your gods orders. Not good orders, not a good god, but still a god's orders.

Finally, you have people that are just down with their god like that. I don't understand what the Hell motivates them, so I have nothing to say here.

And then you have people who want a leader as their excuse. However, they don't use God as the excuse, they use a human as an excuse. An example would be a friend of my mothers who wanted an abortion, and went through 5 different Priests, looking for one who would tell her it was the right thing to do. These people are really pathetic and should be shot, if you want to do your own thing do your own thing, and don't look for someone else to be a scapegoat should your thing not be the right thing.

I agree that my belief in God doesn't change the way the world works, but it does impact how I influence the world around me.

With or without a god, the possibility of an afterlife is still there.

while there still is the possibility of an afterlife, whether there is a God or not, some would argue that it depends on the decisions you make while on earth as to which end of the afterlife you end up on.;)

This question sounds a lot like the "Pascal's Wager" concept. At the simplest, most rational form, it is way more beneficial to believe in a god then to not believe in a god. If you are right, you gain favor, otherwise you are damned. I know this is a generalization but it makes sense.

However, I not only believe in God, I believe that such a belief is not only rational and logical, but necessarily true.

It doesn't matter if god exists or not. If he does, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. If he doesn't, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. With or without a god, the possibility of an afterlife is still there.

conclusion of this statement: You may or you may not believe in a god, but your belief won't change how the world works.

Agree, disagree, other?

I agree completely.

I don't care if he exists, I simply want to continue my life...

It very much matters whether a god exists, and which one. If Agaxish Lord of Blood exists, then my not following him could result in me getting thrown into the Hellfires, so it is a matter of personal importance. Further, it will matter to you whether Agaxish Lord of Blood exists, because if I think he does I am required to sacrifice all unbelievers on the pyre.

[Not a follower of Blood Thirsty Gods]

Nay, one should bow down to Dis, the God of Chaos, the Lord of all that is Random.

[Not a follower of random Gods]

God's existence does not matter not for the reasons you bring up, but rather because in our current consciousness, we cannot understand nor perceive God. Our brains, in our current state, cannot possibly do so. Thus it becomes a matter of belief, and since that belief can never be justified, it is your belief in God that essentially gives birth to God and gives the deity power. Man's beliefs shape God, not the other way around.

God's existence does not matter not for the reasons you bring up, but rather because in our current consciousness, we cannot understand nor perceive God. Our brains, in our current state, cannot possibly do so. Thus it becomes a matter of belief, and since that belief can never be justified, it is your belief in God that essentially gives birth to God and gives the deity power. Man's beliefs shape God, not the other way around.

Which is related, but as you said not the same, to the reasons I gave.

Therefore, to all fundamentalist christians, muslims and any other people out there: Stop caring about god's existance, start caring about his (good) teachings.

This is important because psychologically, belief has a great importance.


Nay, one should bow down to Dis, the God of Chaos, the Lord of all that is Random.

[Not a follower of random Gods]

*blows up due to that crazy zealot suicide bomber* *has a bone randomly fly into Deep Kimchi* *flies up and goes to heaven for killing an infidel, or for dying in battle, or for being sacrificed, or for being random*

[Still not crazy or a zealot... maybe crazy]

It doesn't matter if god exists. But it seems to matter a lot to a lot of folk that their image of God exists.

It doesn't matter if god exists. But it seems to matter a lot to a lot of folk that their image of God exists.
I think you have just answered the question of "what's wrong with the world today." Applause.

As for me, I think god is irrelevant, because if there is no god that doesn't automatically make it okay to be an evil bastard. Whether or not there's some dude in the sky waiting for us after we're dead, we are already responsible to the people around us right here and now. I'm much more interested in the good and bad karma that can be realized in this lifetime than in what might happen in the next one.

So I actually believe in god -- in any and all god-forms, I'm not fussy -- but I don't worship him. I don't look to him for guidance. I hardly think of him at all in real life.

This question sounds a lot like the "Pascal's Wager" concept. At the simplest, most rational form, it is way more beneficial to believe in a god then to not believe in a god. If you are right, you gain favor, otherwise you are damned. I know this is a generalization but it makes sense.
No, it doesn't, really. Impossibilities do not "make sense."

However, I not only believe in God, I believe that such a belief is not only rational and logical, but necessarily true.
This is apart from the silly "gaining favour" argument? This is a good thing. "Gaining God's favour" by believing in him, or pretending to, is not a part of any religious mythology. That's Hollywood religion.

i agree that the discovery of a previously true fact will not change the way the world works...but it will change the way you live your life. if it was suddenly proved to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there was a God and a heaven, and all you had to do to get into the second was to believe in and love the first, wouldn't you change your lifestyle? most people i know would change their's dramaticly if they believed there was a God. and all the people i know who believe there is a God would change their's dramaticly if their belief disappeared.

It doesn't matter if god exists or not. If he does, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. If he doesn't, things are as they are and life goes on as usual. With or without a god, the possibility of an afterlife is still there.

conclusion of this statement: You may or you may not believe in a god, but your belief won't change how the world works.

Agree, disagree, other?

If there is a God, it matters, because it is not question of IF there is an afterlife, I'm trying to get to the nicer one.