NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's a question; are we as a society moving, modernising towards more freedom, equality and rights, or are we just getting better at hiding oppression?

Here's a question; are we as a society moving, modernising towards more freedom, equality and rights, or are we just getting better at hiding oppression?

If people aren't happy, they revolt.

Like they are in France right now.

Otherwise, you can't fool people for long. They eventually revolt.

Actually, we're getting pretty bad at hiding opression.

Utopia only ever exists in hindsight.

Utopia only ever exists in hindsight.
And in the distant future. People are just shitty creatures. They'll always be shitty. It's a tradegy.

I think the oppression is pretty blatant. As for modernising, I think we have our priorities mixed up: we're developing technologies that fulfill such selfish needs and disregarding important issues. I believe that the western world has become to indulgent with the capitalist movement

I think the oppression is pretty blatant. As for modernising, I think we have our priorities mixed up: we're developing technologies that fulfill such selfish needs and disregarding important issues. I believe that the western world has become to indulgent with the capitalist movement
Decadent. Who really wants to see a utopia anyway? Not when the price is discomfort now.

I believe that the western world has become to indulgent with the capitalist movement
I think it's irrational to assume that capitalism is the problem, per se. I hear this time and time again, but the hard-lined truth is that every other political system that's been tried or is currently operating have yet to bring about the utopian paradise as promised. That's because human beings are still petty, selfish, mean and stupid creatures, regardless whatever social structure they're found in.

The world is most definitely getting kinder, and much of this can definitely be attributed to a growing humanitarian consciousness on a global scale (slow, but moving), and improvements on our lives due to technological advances.

I think the majority is doomed to lives of hardship until technology basically frees us from a life of toil and competition. Until then, every system will be difficult and severely flawed in favor of an elite. There are just varying degrees of exploitation and violence inherent in such political systems.

Here's a question; are we as a society moving, modernising towards more freedom, equality and rights, or are we just getting better at hiding oppression?


I would ask: Whats the difference?

I would ask: Whats the difference?
Because unless you're playing symantic games, opression isn't synonymous with freedom, equality, or our civil liberties.

Because unless you're playing symantic games, opression isn't synonymous with freedom, equality, or our civil liberties.

Remember that freedom and liberty are not synonyms, either.

Freedom comes from oppression I think... somehow.. I know what I mean..

Remember that freedom and liberty are not synonyms, either.
Perhaps the Abomination would prefer a game of linguistic twister, but would anyone care to comment on the content of the previous posts?

I think it's irrational to assume that capitalism is the problem

I'm not assuming that capitalism is a problem, I'm just saying that I believe it's pushed us to become too self-indulgent

Because unless you're playing symantic games, opression isn't synonymous with freedom, equality, or our civil liberties.

All those so-called advantages you espouse are nothing more than the products of a covert oppression as malignant as any overt dictatorship. Your civil liberties are derived from documents that proscribe half of human emotion and a high percentage of human ambition. Your equality comes at the cost of my individuality - if my achievements are never judged as any greater than anyone elses, what is the point of striving? And as for freedom - the freedom from wasted choices is far superior to, I don't know, the freedom to sue someone for making hot coffee.

We wish that our current commentators would refrain from confusing liberty with freedom. Freedom is a material condition, whereas liberty is a political ideal. Note that liberty as an ideal is frequently honored in the works of our Founding Fathers, but freedom is not. This is not quibbling. If we do not know what we mean by what we say, we will never be able to know what we think.

All those so-called advantages you espouse are nothing more than the products of a covert oppression as malignant as any overt dictatorship. Your civil liberties are derived from documents that proscribe half of human emotion and a high percentage of human ambition. Your equality comes at the cost of my individuality - if my achievements are never judged as any greater than anyone elses, what is the point of striving? And as for freedom - the freedom from wasted choices is far superior to, I don't know, the freedom to sue someone for making hot coffee.
Sorry, but I don't have a clue WTF you're talking about. This is probably because at 300 posts, I have no idea where you're coming from so your post reads to me like it's devoid of any real content. Can you be less ambiguous?

We wish that our current commentators would refrain from confusing liberty with freedom. Freedom is a material condition, whereas liberty is a political ideal. Note that liberty as an ideal is frequently honored in the works of our Founding Fathers, but freedom is not. This is not quibbling. If we do not know what we mean by what we say, we will never be able to know what we think.

I'm well aware of the natural/given rights argument (every libertarian should be familiar with it), but I've never heard it put quite that way. I see what you're saying, and agree that there's a difference.

People define Utopia differently, but ulyiamtely it doesn't matter, because no type of Utopia is attainable. Humanity sucks. (and no, I'm not excluding wyself)

I would ask: Whats the difference?
Because oppression is suffering and freedom, liberty and rights are, broadly equivalent to happiness. They are opposites.

Remember that freedom and liberty are not synonyms, either.
That's right.

People define Utopia differently, but ulyiamtely it doesn't matter, because no type of Utopia is attainable. Humanity sucks. (and no, I not excluding wyself)
Don't pay much attention to the title of the thread... it was half cos I couldn't think of anything else and half a mockery of modernist ideology.