NationStates Jolt Archive

Tories take lead in opinion poll

Last Updated Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:08:31 EST
CBC News

A new poll conducted after the release of the Gomery report suggests the Conservatives have now pulled ahead of the Liberals in public support.

The poll, conducted by the Strategic Counsel and published Saturday, suggests the Tories have the support of 31 per cent of Canadians, an increase of six percentage points from a similar poll carried out three weeks ago.

Although Justice John Gomery exonerated Prime Minister Paul Martin in his report on the sponsorship scandal, the poll found the issue has eroded Liberal support across the country.

The Liberals have 28 per cent, down 10 percentage points from an Oct. 14 poll. The NDP trails with 20 per cent, and the Bloc Québécois is at 13 per cent.

The pollsters interviewed 1,000 people, starting one day after the Gomery report was released.

The Oct. 2-3 survey, conducted for the Globe and CTV, is considered accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. With that kind of margin of error, the Liberals and Conservatives could be seen to be in a virtual tie for support.

In seat-rich Ontario, the two parties leading in the poll each had 35 per cent of support. The NDP now leads in British Columbia, while the Bloc has 57 per cent of the francophone vote.

The results may be just the political ammunition the opposition needs to trigger an election, Strategic Counsel chair Allan Gregg told the Globe.

The prime minister promised to call an election 30 days after Gomery's second report, due in February.

Martin will talk about the interim report during his two-minute radio address on Sunday.

***

:eek: :eek: :eek:

If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)

BTW, the good news is that the NDP is leading in BC.:p

Tories take lead in opinion poll

Its about time. The Liberals have been in power way too long. If the Gomery report didn't cause many Canadians to consider dumping the Liberals, I would have been very surprised.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)

Aw, you'll get used to living in a place where the government is opposed to your ideology. I should know: I've lived in Saskatchewan all my life.

how quickly we forget


similar poll results were shown back in April..

Canadains will flock back to the LIberals at the last minute, DUH.

Its about time. The Liberals have been in power way too long. If the Gomery report didn't cause many Canadians to consider dumping the Liberals, I would have been very surprised.Even the Liberals have been in power for way too long and were mucked up with scandals, I'm still afraid of the Conservatives, they're way too creepy for me. I don't mind the PCs (they're gone now) getting elected but the new Conservatives..... no.

Aw, you'll get used to living in a place where the government is opposed to your ideology. I should know: I've lived in Saskatchewan all my life.Yeah, I lived in BC for all my life and I'm already used to having the BC "Liberals" monkeying our province.

BTW, why Saskatchewan had a NDP government when their people voted for the federal Conservatives? :confused:

If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)

BTW, the good news is that the NDP is leading in BC.:p
If the Conservatives get in, it will probably be a minority government. Given how good they've been lately about alienating all the other political parties, I wouldn't expect them to last too long before being thrown out.

Conservatives: 31%
Liberals + NDP: 48%

Hmmmm... wonder the country is saved if they (Liberal + NDP) formed a coalition government. :p

Conservatives: 31%
Liberals + NDP: 48%

Hmmmm... wonder the country is saved if they (Liberal + NDP) formed a coalition government. :p
But you forget it's not by %, but by seats.

The conservatives don't really share many things in common with the Bloc and have said some rather nasty things about them in the past little while, with Harper acting like a baby and throwing out insults.

I tell you, if that man wasn't running that party then the poll numbers would be much better for the conservatives. The liberals have fucked up a lot lately.

BTW, why Saskatchewan had a NDP government when their people voted for the federal Conservatives? :confused:

Saskatchewan seems to be very polarized when it comes to politics. Provincially we have three major parties, the left wing NDP, the right wing Saskatchewan Party and the more centrist Liberal Party. Now, in most places, centrist parties tend to do better than the more extremist parties, but in Saskatchewan, the centrist Liberals currently have NO seats in the legislature. It seems like everyone who votes is either staunchly NDP or staunchly Sask Party, and the number of people in each camp is more or less equal. (Currently the NDP has 30 seats in the legislature and the Sask Party has 28, and in the election before last more people voted Sask Party than NDP but the NDP won more seats because of the way the ridings were split up).

I suspect that the reason Saskatchewan is so Conservative federally is because of vote splitting. Most of the people who would normally vote Sask Party provincially also vote Conservative federally, but the NDP camp is split between voting NDP federally or voting Liberal federally.

Polarization coupled with vote splitting is likely the reason why Saskatchewan, birthplace of the NDP, failed to send a single NDP candidate to parlaiment and only sent one Liberal.

No matter who wins, it will be the will of the Canadian people, and more power to them for making a choice. Not to say that I have preferences... but since I'm not Canadian, it's not really my decision to make. Though I have to say, calling the Conservatives the "Jesus Party" is a cheap shot. :P Ah well, to each their own.

Well this is good news but I wouldn't call the Conservatives the Jesus party.

Polls mean nothing. Mike Harris won the election when polls said he wouldn't. They should ban polls three weeks before any election.
I predict a January election. Won't be December because of Christmas and won't be February because it'll be too cold. Of course Martin will probably break his promise about calling an election coming up with some lame excuse. It's time for the Liberals to go. They're arrogance has reached it's limit. They need to be humbled as when Mulroney was in power. Get rid of the lot and start again. The Conservatives will not be as bad as everyone is portraying them to be. People are just plain fearmongering. The medical system will not go down the drain. They won't be doing anything too radical. Martin acts like a Conservative anyway. How the hell do you think he got us out of the deficit when he was the Finance Minister - by using Conservative tactics. Vote Conservatives in for at least the next term and you won't be sorry. Canada is at a cross roads here. As for the Bloc Quebecois - Quebecers are just too stupid to realize that by voting these guys in they won't have any say of how the country is run - that is if the Conservatives get in. Unfortunately the Liberals just cow tow to Quebecers regardless. i.e. - Sponsorship Scandal. Uggghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No matter who wins, it will be the will of the Canadian people, and more power to them for making a choice. Not to say that I have preferences... but since I'm not Canadian, it's not really my decision to make. Though I have to say, calling the Conservatives the "Jesus Party" is a cheap shot. :P Ah well, to each their own.
Well, Harper did go around making a huge fuss about the possibility of gay marriage being legalized before he was put in as head of the party. He did a fair amount of campaigning against the issue and such.

There are some who think that the current conservative party has a number of religious zealots in its ranks, though... http://www.valleyskeptic.com/conservatives_hijacked_by_zealots.html

Calling them the Jesus party is fearmongering as well!!!!!!!!!

No matter who wins, it will be the will of the Canadian people, and more power to them for making a choice.

Yeah, except that because of the way our system is set up, it can (and sometimes has) happened that a less popular party wins the election. In fact, with four federal parties it would be possible for a party to win a majority government by taking in just slightly more than 25% of the vote in just slightly more than 50% of the ridings; i.e. a party could form a "majority" government with only 12.5% of the popular vote. Even if you don't count the Bloc (which doesn't run candidates in all ridings) a party could still win a majority of the ridings with only 16.666... percent of the vote.

Not to say that I have preferences... but since I'm not Canadian, it's not really my decision to make. Though I have to say, calling the Conservatives the "Jesus Party" is a cheap shot. :P Ah well, to each their own.

Yeah, but is the name "Jesus Party" more insulting to the Conservatives or to Jesus?

The Conservatives will not be as bad as everyone is portraying them to be. People are just plain fearmongering.
So Harper won't try to nullify the passing of the whole gay marriage thing the second he gets in?

Martin acts like a Conservative anyway. How the hell do you think he got us out of the deficit when he was the Finance Minister - by using Conservative tactics.
He's a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. Harper would have got us involved in Iraq, which would have really fucked over our economy.

Vote Conservatives in for at least the next term and you won't be sorry.
Nah, I think I like the NDP.

As for the Bloc Quebecois - Quebecers are just too stupid to realize that by voting these guys in they won't have any say of how the country is run - that is if the Conservatives get in.
Really? So in a minority government, the Bloc, having the third most seats, don't do anything? It's true that they don't have a shot at forming the government, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a say in how things go down, especially with minority governments, like the liberals have now and which the conservatives are certain to have should they get elected in the next election.

Tories take lead in opinion poll

***

:eek: :eek: :eek:

If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)



I'm going to Iceland.

Well, Harper did go around making a huge fuss about the possibility of gay marriage being legalized before he was put in as head of the party. He did a fair amount of campaigning against the issue and such.

There are some who think that the current conservative party has a number of religious zealots in its ranks, though... http://www.valleyskeptic.com/conservatives_hijacked_by_zealots.html
He won't go near the gay marriage thing. It's done and past. Politicians don't like to go near a controversial issue once the issue is settled. He came out against it because he is the Opposition (I know the NDP didn't but they still have some ethics). The election will be based on the Liberals scaremongering us into thinking that if the Conservatives win health care is down the toilet. The Conservatives will base their platform on the corruption of the Liberal government and Liberal party. Too much money has already been spent on the whole gay thing so no one will want to touch it again. Well okay maybe the Family Coalition Party. One issue parties don't work. Of course, if we all smartened up we'd go for the NDP or the Green Party. But that won't happen. So we got to get those Conservatives in. :(

Originally Posted by The Chinese Republics
Tories take lead in opinion poll


***



If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)

Even though you said besides the States I'd still suggest them. At least you know whose going to win since their elections are now fixed. If you don't like that I'd go to Japan. Same type of politics as the US but at least you'd get laid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

Well this is good news but I wouldn't call the Conservatives the Jesus party.
Yeah, it's certainly an overstatement. I wouldn't go as far as to call it good news though, despite the fact that the Liberals don't deserve to be in power. Go the NDP!

Well this is good news
No, bad Corny! Bad, bad, bad!!!
We're not going to the same road as your country went to.

Yeah, it's certainly an overstatement. I wouldn't go as far as to call it good news though, despite the fact that the Liberals don't deserve to be in power. Go the NDP!

NDP's have the best ideology, but they're too petulent for my taste. Not sure how I will vote (when I am legally allowed to). We need a radical party.

Yeah, it's certainly an overstatement. I wouldn't go as far as to call it good news though, despite the fact that the Liberals don't deserve to be in power. Go the NDP!Hear hear!!!.....wait a minute, are you Canadian or Irish or just both?

when I am legally allowed toShit you're lucky, I'm only 5 months from being allowed to vote.:(

Shit you're lucky, I'm only 5 months from being allowed to vote.:(

I thought you knew who you were voting for...

He won't go near the gay marriage thing. It's done and past. Politicians don't like to go near a controversial issue once the issue is settled. He came out against it because he is the Opposition (I know the NDP didn't but they still have some ethics).
Uh... are you sure?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/28/samesex050628.html

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says if his party forms the next government, the law will be revisited.

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=e0905a7a-c1c9-47ad-8e1e-f35ccd7b6a6f

But Conservatives promise the debate isn't over yet.

Leader Stephen Harper said he will bring back the same-sex marriage law for another vote if he wins the next election.

"There will be a chance to revisit this in a future Parliament," Harper said. "Our intention is to have a free vote."

How Harper might handle the issue in future is unclear since almost every provincial and territorial government has made gay marriage legal.

The Liberals said Harper has only one tool at his disposal: the Charter's notwithstanding clause, an escape hatch which no federal government has ever used.

"They're going to have to at least be honest with the people," said Justice Minister Irwin Cotler.

"They're going to have to acknowledge that they want to override the (Charter of Rights), override constitutional-law decisions in nine jurisdictions in this country, override a unanimous decision of the Supreme Court of Canada, override the rule of law in this country."

No, bad Corny! Bad, bad, bad!!!
We're not going to the same road as your country went to.

I said it was good news because the Liberals need to give up power once and a while. If you don't want them too then make it a one party system.

Clearly, Canadians will do what they always do when electipn time comes. Freak out, hold their nose, and vote Liberal.
This poll means nothing whatever.

I, however, will be breathing deeply and casting a vote for the NDP.

Clearly, Canadians will do what they always do when electipn time comes. Freak out, hold their nose, and vote Liberal.
This poll means nothing whatever.

I, however, will be breathing deeply and casting a vote for the NDP.
Go NDP!

Yes go Conservative Party!

Hear hear!!!.....wait a minute, are you Canadian or Irish or just both?
I am Irish but I like Canada. I don't want a bunch of ol' Tories to ruin it.

I am Irish but I like Canada. I don't want a bunch of ol' Tories to ruin it.
An ol' Tory created Canada. I don't think the Coservatives are inherently bad, they just need a non-christian, non zombie-like, non-albertan leader, and a different direction.

I thought you knew who you were voting for...lol

Btw, I'm planning to volunteer at the NDP campaign office IF there's a snap election.;)

I can't wait until Mulroney Part 2.

I was too young to appreciate Part 1.

/is scared
//wants the NDP to win if Libs don't

:eek: :eek: :eek:

If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)

BTW, the good news is that the NDP is leading in BC.:p
The NDP was just about even with the Libs in my riding last election. If the election is after my B-Day (pretty likely) i'll vote NDP. I would recomend fleeing to Germany or Sweden.

It's about time. I'm completely sick of the Liberals and their embezzling, fradulent tax policies, complacency, special interest projects, sponsorship, cronyism, poor Canada-USA relations, and general abuse of their positions. Don't even get me started on the NDP and their socialist agenda to turn my country into a welfare state. Harper, although not universally loved, is the best option we have.

It's about time. I'm completely sick of the Liberals and their embezzling, fradulent tax policies, complacency, special interest projects, sponsorship, cronyism, poor Canada-USA relations, and general abuse of their positions. Don't even get me started on the NDP and their socialist agenda to turn my country into a welfare state. Harper, although not universally loved, is the best option we have.
I prefer the welfare state to Harper's reign of poverty.

It's about time. I'm completely sick of the Liberals and their embezzling, fradulent tax policies, complacency, special interest projects, sponsorship, cronyism, poor Canada-USA relations, and general abuse of their positions. Don't even get me started on the NDP and their socialist agenda to turn my country into a welfare state. Harper, although not universally loved, is the best option we have.

I totally agree.

I think what this country needs is the Tories and their versions of embezzling, fraudulent tax policies, complacency, special interest projects, sponsorship, cronyism, abuse of power, etc.

Relations with the US were good, I'll admit that. Sadly this was because both had right-wing asshats running the show, as did Britain. All three were responsible for dramatic economic damage with Mulroney's being the most minimal since he was ran out of town on a rail only to be replaced with, what I guess was the second most capable individual in the PC party...

When it comes to economic collapse or welfare state, I'd rather the welfare state.

/Meech Lake, to divide the country
//NAFTA, to give the USA another way to ignore us
///Kim Campbell...Priceless!

I think what this country needs is the Tories and their versions of embezzling, fraudulent tax policies, complacency, special interest projects, sponsorship, cronyism, abuse of power, etc.

All politicians are crooks. At least the Conservatives occasionally tend to somewhat lean toward a policy of slightly less government interference in the lives of citizens. Sometimes. If the government had less control over the us, their inevitable screw-ups and deliberate attempts to rob us would be less of a problem.

Relations with the US were good, I'll admit that. Sadly this was because both had right-wing asshats running the show, as did Britain. All three were responsible for dramatic economic damage with Mulroney's being the most minimal since he was ran out of town on a rail only to be replaced with, what I guess was the second most capable individual in the PC party...

Ah yes, Canada's first woman prime minister. Probably not the greatest event in herstory.

I said it was good news because the Liberals need to give up power once and a while. If you don't want them too then make it a one party system.Haha nice try Corny. Trying to tell Canadians to vote for a party you see fit. You're saying that Canadians should give the Liberals a break just to give Harper a chance to screw up our country exactly what Bush did in your country, is that right?

Another question: are you going to vote Republican for the next President, Congress, or Senate election? I think you should give the Republicans a break once and a while, they've been in power for way too long. If you don't want them to give up power, then make it a one party system

Election noises grow on Parliament Hill

Read this link, it's damn too long:
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=f33b2c4e-c0dc-4942-a478-7a447d58d203

***

Now the NDP is threatening to pull its support that kept the Liberals on life support, do you think we're going to elect a new government during christmas?

Its about time. The Liberals have been in power way too long. If the Gomery report didn't cause many Canadians to consider dumping the Liberals, I would have been very surprised.

Well, the conservatives are no better; how about instead of the good old homo bash, they came out with some decent bloody policies that are superior to what the liberals are offering; or would that be too much of a revolution?!

Reminds me of the National party in NZ; how about some new policies besides tax cuts that equate to an extra $5 in the hand for joe blogs?

lol

Btw, I'm planning to volunteer at the NDP campaign office IF there's a snap election.;)

I've a friend who did that (Nation: Reconasberg. I know him from school, though).

I am a Conservative, but I live in Alberta so it is too be expected. I really hope the Conservatives win the Next Election. Second Choice is Liberals, I guess and for the most part the NDP just scare me. I really wish they weren't propping up the Liberals, it is a bad idea. Their crappy budget they passed in June or July made me angry when they cut out all those tax breaks.

I want them to axe that freaking Gun Registry or as I like to call it the "Money Black Hole." I also think we should increase defence spending and focus on the Navy. I was glad that the polls were so close. It'll make for a good election if nothing else. By the way my prediction as much as it pains me to say is another Liberal Minority Government.

I really hope the Conservatives win the Next Election.Harper and MacKay are discussing how to win the federal election right now:

http://www.airfarce.com/seasons/season13/051028f.wvx

LMAO!!!:D

I wish McKay was the Leader of the Conservatives.

Don't even think of flinching if you're inclined to vote NDP. Expect a hellaciously hard-sell on "Strategic Voting" - but if you're thinking Jack doesn't look as much an ass on the national stage, and you're waffling as to who'll get your vote... just do it.

Let's make the Libs work for it this time. That, or let's really make 'em dependent on a strong NDP. Whichever works better.

I wish McKay was the Leader of the Conservatives.
Missed the ol' Progressive Conservative?

Missed the ol' Progressive Conservative?

Actually I was a memeber of the CA, but I like Peter McKay

Let's make the Libs work for it this time. That, or let's really make 'em dependent on a strong NDP. Whichever works better.Let's hope for another Liberal minority government and an increased seats for the NDP, like around 25 to 30 seats.

McKay's a bad seed. He'd make a terrible leader for a reconstituted PC party. Hell, he was a lying deceitful piece-o-crap actual leader of the former PC party who sold out his traditional base of support - the not-nearly-as-"mythical"-as Steve-Harper'd-like-to-think-"Red Tories", in order to become a lieutenant in a social conservative, crackpot regional political rump-end party who for ten years, and through three different brandings(and as many leaders), have failed to persuade mainstream Canadians as to their legitimacy as a non-fringe right-wing alternative.

Whats up with jolt right now, the forum is lagging.

The Chinese Republics

Ahhh, at last I have a name for those idiots responsible for electing the Libral dictators so many times in a row now. Not to mention the Morons that NEVER clue in to the fact that no matter how many times you elect the NDP into office in BC or Ontario that they are going to do the exact opposite to what their stated polocies that got them elected are.

Haha nice try Corny. Trying to tell Canadians to vote for a party you see fit.

I'm doing no such thing.

You're saying that Canadians should give the Liberals a break just to give Harper a chance to screw up our country exactly what Bush did in your country, is that right?

Take a hint from the United States. The Dems were in power for over FOURTY YEARS. Then in 1994, they were tossed out of power and for the last 11 years, the Republicans have been in power. These things will go in shifts. If you want the liberals to keep control of the government forever then switch to a one party system. It'll streamline everything and you wouldn't have to worry about elections.

Another question: are you going to vote Republican for the next President, Congress, or Senate election?

I have to see who the dems put up in my district for Congress and see what he/she has to say. For Senate though yes because I don't believe that Casey can handle the job as senator. He also doesn't have a platform and all he is running on is his daddy's name. For President in 08, I have to see who both parties put up.

I think you should give the Republicans a break once and a while, they've been in power for way too long. If you don't want them to give up power, then make it a one party system

They've only been in power for 11 years. The Democrats were in power for over 40 years.

""Jesus" Party leading the polls [Canada]"

Not every conservative is a huge Jesus fan.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

All I hope is that Svend Robinson doesn't get elected. He is a tool. I heard he is going to run in Vancouver Centre against Hedy Fry. That oughta be a good race. Heres hoping neither of them wins that seat.

The Chinese Republics

Ahhh, at last I have a name for those idiots responsible for electing the Libral dictators so many times in a row now. Not to mention the Morons that NEVER clue in to the fact that no matter how many times you elect the NDP into office in BC or Ontario that they are going to do the exact opposite to what their stated polocies that got them elected are.
I rather have a Liberal dictator than a Conservative dictator.;)

Edit: Do you want Gordo to sell out your province?

Uh... are you sure?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/28/samesex050628.html



http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=e0905a7a-c1c9-47ad-8e1e-f35ccd7b6a6f
Harper says that now. But he'll do the same thing as when Chretien said he'd repeal the GST. NOTHING.
The past is a fiction designed to account for the discrepnancy between my immediate physical sensations and my state of mind. - Douglas Adams

[Bryce Crusader States]I am a Conservative, but I live in Alberta so it is too be expected. I really hope the Conservatives win the Next Election. Second Choice is Liberals, I guess and for the most part the NDP just scare me. I really wish they weren't propping up the Liberals, it is a bad idea. Their crappy budget they passed in June or July made me angry when they cut out all those tax breaks.Tax Breaks do nothing for the economy. See Harris reign. See Regan trickle down effect.

I am a Conservative, but I live in Alberta so it is too be expected. I really hope the Conservatives win the Next Election. Second Choice is Liberals, I guess and for the most part the NDP just scare me. I really wish they weren't propping up the Liberals, it is a bad idea. Their crappy budget they passed in June or July made me angry when they cut out all those tax breaks.

Tax Breaks do nothing for the economy. See Harris reign. See Regan trickle down effect.

Incorrect. Tax cuts do help the economy. It gives the people more money to spend which businesses use to re-invest or used to hire new people. This will cause a job spike.

Incase you haven't noticed, the GDP skyrocketed under the Reagan Tax Cuts and they have done the same under the Bush's tax cut.

I wish McKay was the Leader of the Conservatives.
I wish Gerard Kennedy was the leader of the Ontario Liberals. Oh well.

The Chinese Republics

Ahhh, at last I have a name for those idiots responsible for electing the Libral dictators so many times in a row now. Not to mention the Morons that NEVER clue in to the fact that no matter how many times you elect the NDP into office in BC or Ontario that they are going to do the exact opposite to what their stated polocies that got them elected are.

How does voting for the NDP elect "Libral dictators"?

I think you need to work on your logic there, pal. It's the would-be NDP voters that hold their nose and vote Liberal who elect Liberals.

Incorrect. Tax cuts do help the economy. It gives the people more money to spend which businesses use to re-invest or used to hire new people. This will cause a job spike.

Incase you haven't noticed, the GDP skyrocketed under the Reagan Tax Cuts and they have done the same under the Bush's tax cut.

Canada's GDP has increased without tax cuts as well. And there have been provincial governments that have had their economy seriously hurt after instituting tax cuts (such as the Harris government referred to by the earlier poster).

I doubt it's as simple a cause and effect situation as you imply.

All I hope is that Svend Robinson doesn't get elected. He is a tool. I heard he is going to run in Vancouver Centre against Hedy Fry. That oughta be a good race. Heres hoping neither of them wins that seat.

One of them will, if they are both running. No chance at all for a Conservative candidate to win Vancouver Centre.

I think there's a greater chance of having Svend Robinson back in to the House of Commons. Federal NDP support is rising here in BC. I think the reason for the rising support because of Gordo and his BC Fiberals.

I'm sure BC'ers think Harper would end up like this:

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/412/gordo9xg.jpg

Another question: are you going to vote Republican for the next President, Congress, or Senate election? I think you should give the Republicans a break once and a while, they've been in power for way too long. If you don't want them to give up power, then make it a one party system
Well...
Yes America can do better. Things will get better when the Liberals [Democrats?] in Both houses of Congress get their asses tossed right out of power.

An ol' Tory created Canada. I don't think the Conservatives are inherently bad, they just need a non-christian, non zombie-like, non-albertan leader, and a different direction.
A different direction? What do you have in mind. Their party's name is pretty much a straightjacket on them. They have to support some sort of conservatism, and I haven't found any varieties of conservatism that I like.

Their crappy budget they passed in June or July made me angry when they cut out all those tax breaks.

I also think we should increase defence spending and focus on the Navy.
You know that defence spending also takes tax money, right?

I think there's a greater chance of having Svend Robinson back in to the House of Commons.

Well, it seems that many Canadians are perfectly willing to vote for the Liberals in spite of their thievery, so I see no reason why anyone would hesitate to elect a petty jewel thief.

You know that defence spending also takes tax money, right?

You know that it's quite possible for tax breaks to lead to increased government revenue, right?

I will vote Conservative when I become the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada. Watch "Lock N'Load" to see what I will be like as Prime Minister.

The Chinese Republics

Ahhh, at last I have a name for those idiots responsible for electing the Libral dictators so many times in a row now. Not to mention the Morons that NEVER clue in to the fact that no matter how many times you elect the NDP into office in BC or Ontario that they are going to do the exact opposite to what their stated polocies that got them elected are.
You expect honesty and dependability from a BC primier? What are you on?

Nice sig Posi :D

BTW, where's Canada City? I thought he's gonna write "Canadians are stupid" posts.

Incorrect. Tax cuts do help the economy. It gives the people more money to spend which businesses use to re-invest or used to hire new people. This will cause a job spike.

Incase you haven't noticed, the GDP skyrocketed under the Reagan Tax Cuts and they have done the same under the Bush's tax cut.Putting an extra 40 or 200 bucks in my pocket isn't going to make any difference to my spending habits. It will not convince me to purchase that big-ticket item that will fuel the economy. It will, however necessitate serious cuts to some program or another that dsperately needs the money, whearas I do not. Polls show that most Canadians do not supporst income tax breaks. Corporate tax breaks may make sense if you want to inject the economy, but not income tax.

A different direction? What do you have in mind. Their party's name is pretty much a straightjacket on them. They have to support some sort of conservatism, and I haven't found any varieties of conservatism that I like.I mean a turn back to the conservarism of the old red Tories would serve the Coservative party better in terms of broad-range apeal than the slightly freaky Albertan variety their leader Harper symbolizes. I wouldn't consider voting Consevative under these circumstances, but there was a time when there was little difference between their policies and those of the Liberals - they could be a natural leading party for Canada as easily as the Libeals. However, it is religion-tinged, extreme, slip-ups about subjects like gay marriage, abortion and the like, as well as their enthusuiastic support of the Bush administration, that makes many Canadians distrust them (or at least a number of their MPs). Conservatism doesn't have to be offensive to Canadian sensibilities in essence, is what I'm (clumsily) getting at, but the party has turned it that way, a trend which the Liberals have exploited by labeling their values "un-Canadian".

meh. I'll stick with the NDP.

meh. I'll stick with the NDP.
hear hear

hear hear
hear hear

hear hearhear hearMan, are we ever a pathetic bunch of yea-saying left-wingers. Will someone please shake up this smugness?






wait...i've got the next elections to do that. *hopes for more orange seats*

Man, are we ever a pathetic bunch of yea-saying left-wingers. Will someone please shake up this smugness?

Vote for the Conservatives and kick out the liberals :D

*Note: I'm not canadian*

Vote for the Conservatives and kick out the liberals :D

*Note: I'm not canadian*
But if the consevatives get elected how will Canada run a surplus?

Vote for the Conservatives and kick out the liberals :D No no, vote for the NDP and kick out the Liberals :D (I wish :D )
*Note: I'm not canadian*
Yeah, we all know you're not.;)

You know that defence spending also takes tax money, right?

I do know that so that's why we need to cut loose some of the useless programs the government runs. Ex. Gun Registry.

We also need to cut funding to Health Care and have a two-tier like Klein wants.(I know I'm an Evil Conservative how could I possibly suggest privatizing Health Care even partially.)

Anyways, we need to cut some programs to make room for more important things.

I do know that so that's why we need to cut loose some of the useless programs the government runs. Ex. Gun Registry.

We also need to cut funding to Health Care and have a two-tier like Klein wants.(I know I'm an Evil Conservative how could I possibly suggest privatizing Health Care even partially.)

Anyways, we need to cut some programs to make room for more important things.Running both Public and Private Heathcare in parallel won't work. The reason is that doctors prefer the private system because they'll get better pay than the public sector, causing the shortage of doctors in the public system and people (most Canadians) who rely on affordable healthcare won't able to find a doctor. But in Alberta, I believe private would work in this province since everybody are swimming in a pool of black gold and don't mind paying more.;) So if Alberta don't want the federal gov't to dither their healthcare, imagine how many $$$ the federal gov't can save by just not funding Alberta's healthcare system. BTW, I'm a NDP'er and I don't like private healthcare. I'm just suggesting Alberta don't need public healthcare.

Running both Public and Private Heathcare in parallel won't work. The reason is that doctors prefer the private system because they'll get better pay than the public sector, causing the shortage of doctors in the public system and people (most Canadians) who rely on affordable healthcare won't able to find a doctor. But in Alberta, I believe private would work in this province since everybody are swimming in a pool of black gold and don't mind paying more.;) So if Alberta don't want the federal gov't to dither their healthcare, imagine how many $$$ the federal gov't can save by just not funding Alberta's healthcare system. BTW, I'm a NDP'er and I don't like private healthcare. I'm just suggesting Alberta don't need public healthcare.

I don't think that's how it works. It's more like if you can afford to pay to get faster Medical Service you should be allowed to rather than having two completely different sectors one in which you can choose to pay and receive faster medical service and if you can't well I guess you have to wait. That's Capitalism for you. It's trying to stem the problem of people who can pay for medical treatment from leaving Canada in order to do so. This happens quite often.

Two-tier healthcare system is kinda like McDonalds

Private: Drive-thru service, 2-minute hip replacement to go for only $99. (After that you find yourself filing a lawsuit for bad hip fix and eventually, you're broke. But hey, what can you expect from a 2-minute fix professionally done in your car.)

Public: Front-desk service, 1-hour hip replacement to stay for free. (Then you find yourself stuck in line-ups for months. But hey, you looked fine and you still got cash in your pocket, except you're growing grey hair and your employer fired you for taking longer than usual vacation.)

I suggest more funding for public healthcare and no private clinics. Two-tier system is not an option.

I suggest more funding for public healthcare and no private clinics. Two-tier system is not an option.The problem is, we already have a two-tier system on some level. Here, they just finished building a huge fancy new "private surgery clinic" a block away from VGH. People that have the money can go get their knees and hips fixed, get CT ad PET scans, and do it fast. The difference is that they can do it in Canada, instead of going down south.
I don't agree with the idea at all - it frightens me. Yet, it is practical in a way...those people won't be on waiting lists, and others will get their service faster. It seems silly to insist that everyone remain in the same bad situation, rather than some people dealing with a better situation, and some with an even better situation. Its not eaual, but its better.
That said, I think private surgery can't extend to serious treatments. I don't trust a private company to cure my cancer, or give me a heart transpalnt. Those services should reamin exlucsively in an accountable, non-profit public sector.

But if the consevatives get elected how will Canada run a surplus?

Surpluses aren't always a good thing.

Surpluses aren't always a good thing.
If I bothered maintaining a sig, the above statement, and the NSer who made that statement, would appear in quotations therein. That's a quotable quote fer sure.

Surpluses aren't always a good thing.I think Corny is really jealous about us having record surpluses while they got record deficit. Geez, i think this quote deserve to be on my sig.

Tada!!! (my sig):D

NDP ready to pull plug on Liberal government
Last Updated Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:36:33 EST
CBC News

A decision by NDP Leader Jack Layton has put Canadians on notice for a possible early winter federal election. "The time is approaching, sooner or later, for the Canadian people to render judgment on the Liberal party," he said on Monday.

Layton and his party are pulling their support from the Liberals, claiming the two parties have reached a fundamental impasse over health care. And without NDP support, the minority Liberals cannot survive a confidence vote in the House of Commons.

Layton used a speech in Toronto to announce the end of his party's loose alliance with the Liberals. "There's no basis for our party to express confidence in this government," he told the lunch-time crowd.

The NDP helped Paul Martin's government survive a confidence vote in the spring. In return it got $4.6 billion in social spending added to the federal budget. Layton offered to continue that support if the Liberals moved to reduce privatization in health care, but he couldn't get a deal.

"We cannot express confidence in a government unwilling to act on such a critical issue and we cannot express confidence in a government under the leadership of a party that cannot be trusted to clean up the politics it tainted," said Layton.

But even though the Liberals can't survive a confidence vote without the New Democrats, that doesn't mean the government is about to fall.

The Conservatives have an opposition day in the House next week, but Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says he won't bring forward a motion of non-confidence. He says he isn't even sure the NDP really wants to bring down the government.

"I'm not sure anything has changed .... Mr. Layton is not happy with the proposals he's had. He's not been happy with them for a while. And I'm not sure what his next move is, but it seems to me that he's still looking for leverage to get more out of the government rather than let the Canadian people have their say," said Harper.

The Bloc Québécois also has an opposition day next week. But Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe says it's up to the NDP and the Conservatives to decide whether they want to bring down the government before the end of the year.

The Liberals say Layton is playing games and they'll wait and see if they face a confidence motion.

Transport Minister Jean Lapierre says if the opposition parties want a winter campaign, then bring it on. "I may have to get my signs out and get ready to campaign in the snow. And I've done it before. I've done it in 1980 and I've survived. You know, it's darn cold. But when you win it's a nice warm feeling."

But the fact remains that with Layton pulling his support, all three opposition parties now stand ready to bring down the government, although none of them seems ready to actually do it and send the country into a holiday season election campaign.

***

Winter election?

Surpluses aren't always a good thing.

I'm sure there has to be a reason for this sort of statement... can I get an example of how a surplus is bad?

Let the fun begin.

*grabs popcorn and watches the fun unfold up north*

NDP ready to pull plug on Liberal government
Last Updated Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:36:33 EST
CBC News

A decision by NDP Leader Jack Layton has put Canadians on notice for a possible early winter federal election. "The time is approaching, sooner or later, for the Canadian people to render judgment on the Liberal party," he said on Monday.

Layton and his party are pulling their support from the Liberals, claiming the two parties have reached a fundamental impasse over health care. And without NDP support, the minority Liberals cannot survive a confidence vote in the House of Commons.

Layton used a speech in Toronto to announce the end of his party's loose alliance with the Liberals. "There's no basis for our party to express confidence in this government," he told the lunch-time crowd.

The NDP helped Paul Martin's government survive a confidence vote in the spring. In return it got $4.6 billion in social spending added to the federal budget. Layton offered to continue that support if the Liberals moved to reduce privatization in health care, but he couldn't get a deal.

"We cannot express confidence in a government unwilling to act on such a critical issue and we cannot express confidence in a government under the leadership of a party that cannot be trusted to clean up the politics it tainted," said Layton.

But even though the Liberals can't survive a confidence vote without the New Democrats, that doesn't mean the government is about to fall.

The Conservatives have an opposition day in the House next week, but Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says he won't bring forward a motion of non-confidence. He says he isn't even sure the NDP really wants to bring down the government.

"I'm not sure anything has changed .... Mr. Layton is not happy with the proposals he's had. He's not been happy with them for a while. And I'm not sure what his next move is, but it seems to me that he's still looking for leverage to get more out of the government rather than let the Canadian people have their say," said Harper.

The Bloc Québécois also has an opposition day next week. But Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe says it's up to the NDP and the Conservatives to decide whether they want to bring down the government before the end of the year.

The Liberals say Layton is playing games and they'll wait and see if they face a confidence motion.

Transport Minister Jean Lapierre says if the opposition parties want a winter campaign, then bring it on. "I may have to get my signs out and get ready to campaign in the snow. And I've done it before. I've done it in 1980 and I've survived. You know, it's darn cold. But when you win it's a nice warm feeling."

But the fact remains that with Layton pulling his support, all three opposition parties now stand ready to bring down the government, although none of them seems ready to actually do it and send the country into a holiday season election campaign.

***

Winter election?I hope it is not until spring.

Anyways, we need to cut some programs to make room for more important things.

So building attack helicopters, missiles and assault rifles is more important than caring for the sick, who will also happen to be our parents and grandparents?

No, thank you. I prefer to have a nurse for my mom's old days, than having a battleship to rain down explosives in a far away country just to be an american lapdog.

Let the fun begin.

*grabs popcorn and watches the fun unfold up north*
Go to the House of Commons, it's even more entertaining, especially during question period. :D

Transport Minister Jean Lapierre says if the opposition parties want a winter campaign, then bring it on. "I may have to get my signs out and get ready to campaign in the snow. And I've done it before. I've done it in 1980 and I've survived. You know, it's darn cold. But when you win it's a nice warm feeling."

***

Winter election?

Anyone know where Lapierre is from? I bet our MP's (and voters) have harsher cold to live with than them! :P Toque's off to the NWT/Yukon/Nunavut tho... I wouldn't want to step outside in their winters. :P

If the election is before Christmas, I'm voting Liberal just because I'll be mad at everyone for ruining my holidays. :P Otherwise, I'm voting NDP again. Harper = scary Bush lapdog.

Go to the House of Commons, it's even more entertaining, especially during question period. :D

So I have seen when I have been able to watch it. :D

Harper = scary Bush lapdog.

This is what pisses me off about politics. Its the god damn scare tactics that both sides use.

This is what pisses me off about politics. Its the god damn scare tactics that both sides use.Well that's what Harper really is, Harper:fluffle:Bush.

Well, you do have to admit that Harper is a Conservative (read: pro-America), would have brought us into the war in Iraq (read: pro-America), is anti-gay marriage (pro-America), and thinks that Canada should negotiate with the states about the soft lumber dispute (and, as such, agrees with the American position). This might not add up to his being a lapdog, but it still is pretty scary to most Canadians (read: everyone who votes Bloc, NDP, Liberal, Green, Marxist-Leninist, Communist, or just plain hates politicians).

Sincerely,

Number III

exactly

Well that's what Harper really is, Harper:fluffle:Bush.
Yeah... yeah, yeah. I think he and Bush'd make the bend-and-scoop of the Mulroney/Reagan dynamic look downright hostile, comparatively.

*vomits*

I think Corny is really jealous about us having record surpluses while they got record deficit. Geez, i think this quote deserve to be on my sig.

Nice to see that Corny and I both managed to get ourselves quoted in this thread. :)

Now if I may venture an explanation for Corny's mysterious statement: government surpluses are bad because if the government is sitting on a wad of cash, that means it's your cash their sitting on. Theoretically, a government is supposed to take money from you and give you services in return. If they run a surplus that means that they failed to return the full value of your money to you. A government that runs a surplus is even more of a thief than usual because it is keeping a portion of your money and is not doing anything for you in return. If a government reports a surplus, that means your taxes are too high.

Conversely, a government deficit isn't necessarily a bad thing. When a government borrows money, it usually borrows money from its own citizens by selling them bonds. The debt of a government is owed mainly to its own citizens, and, moreover, the interest the government pays on its loan goes right into the pockets of the citizen bondholders. Really, the country isn't losing much by having a deficit because most of the interest payments are staying within the country. (Sometimes bonds are also sold to foreigners, but that is less common, and selling bonds to citizens also diverts funds away from private investment, but still: when talking about the government, a "deficit" isn't nearly as bad as it sounds.)

Economists usually do not view government surpluses and deficits as either good or bad, but rather both are considered more or less neutral. I view both of them as bad because I think that virtually everything a government does is bad, but that's just me.

So building attack helicopters, missiles and assault rifles is more important than caring for the sick, who will also happen to be our parents and grandparents?

No, thank you. I prefer to have a nurse for my mom's old days, than having a battleship to rain down explosives in a far away country just to be an american lapdog.

I prefer improving the military then caring for the weak and sick. The weak should die and the strong should live. That's how things should be. In my opinion anyway...

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

I prefer improving the military then caring for the weak and sick. The weak should die and the strong should live. That's how things should be. In my opinion anyway...

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~
I would rather spend the money on caring for the weak and sick. Improving the military would be a waste because the US would 'accidentially' bomb our troops again.

I prefer improving the military then caring for the weak and sick. The weak should die and the strong should live. That's how things should be. In my opinion anyway... Gee, you must be a fun date...

Nice to see that Corny and I both managed to get ourselves quoted in this thread. :)

Now if I may venture an explanation for Corny's mysterious statement: government surpluses are bad because if the government is sitting on a wad of cash, that means it's your cash their sitting on. Theoretically, a government is supposed to take money from you and give you services in return. If they run a surplus that means that they failed to return the full value of your money to you. A government that runs a surplus is even more of a thief than usual because it is keeping a portion of your money and is not doing anything for you in return. If a government reports a surplus, that means your taxes are too high.

Conversely, a government deficit isn't necessarily a bad thing. When a government borrows money, it usually borrows money from its own citizens by selling them bonds. The debt of a government is owed mainly to its own citizens, and, moreover, the interest the government pays on its loan goes right into the pockets of the citizen bondholders. Really, the country isn't losing much by having a deficit because most of the interest payments are staying within the country. (Sometimes bonds are also sold to foreigners, but that is less common, and selling bonds to citizens also diverts funds away from private investment, but still: when talking about the government, a "deficit" isn't nearly as bad as it sounds.)


Agreed - but as we have a stated and necessary goal of paying off our federal debt (the GDP to debt ratio was outrageous by the time Trudeau and Mulrooney were done - I've seen numbers as high as 73%), running surpluses are a good thing. At the moment we have a law that requires surplus to be placed against the debt. We've saved a ton on interest charges on debt owed to foreign countries by paying that debt off. (Despite that, we're still paying $35.8 billion in interest this year.)

However, a lot of provinces have instituted laws recently requiring balanced budgets every year, and that's a problem. If it is against the law to go into a deficit in a bad year (for example, in BC during the worst forest fire season in the history of the province), then you have to plan for all kinds of unpredictable extreme extremely expensive disasters and raise money through taxes to pay for them. Which means you automatically have a surplus at the end of the year, whether you planned for one or not (and have a use for one or not, such as paying off government debt). Balanced budgets are a good thing, don't get me wrong, but the balance should come over a number of years, as an average.

Agreed - but as we have a stated and necessary goal of paying off our federal debt (the GDP to debt ratio was outrageous by the time Trudeau and Mulrooney were done - I've seen numbers as high as 73%), running surpluses are a good thing. At the moment we have a law that requires surplus to be placed against the debt. We've saved a ton on interest charges on debt owed to foreign countries by paying that debt off. (Despite that, we're still paying $35.8 billion in interest this year.)

However, a lot of provinces have instituted laws recently requiring balanced budgets every year, and that's a problem. If it is against the law to go into a deficit in a bad year (for example, in BC during the worst forest fire season in the history of the province), then you have to plan for all kinds of unpredictable extreme extremely expensive disasters and raise money through taxes to pay for them. Which means you automatically have a surplus at the end of the year, whether you planned for one or not (and have a use for one or not, such as paying off government debt). Balanced budgets are a good thing, don't get me wrong, but the balance should come over a number of years, as an average.
I also think that the provinces shouldn't have the laws requiring a balanced budget. If it required that the budget was balanced over a 5ish year period, or a claus that would allow it in emergency situations I would be OK with it.

BTW, each year BC seems to have the worst forest fire season on history. How do we still have wood?

BTW, each year BC seems to have the worst forest fire season on history. How do we still have wood?

Exaggeration. Or global warming. Or maybe it's those beetle infestations killing trees and making them more vulnerable.

Take your pick of the options or add your own.

I'm not Canadian, so would anyone mind explaining where the major parites of Canada are on the spectrum, especially compared to American parties?

This is what pisses me off about politics. Its the god damn scare tactics that both sides use.
Yeah, you didn't hear about Harper's appearances on Fox news badmouthing Canada, did you?

Harper doesn't trust Layton to help bring down government

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/11/08/harper-layton051108.html

***

Harper: F'n Jack and his NDP commies ruined my evil plan!!! Grrrr.......

I'm not Canadian, so would anyone mind explaining where the major parites of Canada are on the spectrum, especially compared to American parties?
Conservatives are a little left (but not much left) of the Republicans.
The liberals are the centrist party here, which means they're a lot further left than the Democrats.
The NDP are further left still.

I'm not sure where the Bloc sit, probably between the Liberals and the NDP, but they'll never gain power simply because they don't even run in enough ridings.

Yeah, you didn't hear about Harper's appearances on Fox news badmouthing Canada, did you?He really did? What an asshole! :mad:

Harper doesn't trust Layton to help bring down government

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/11/08/harper-layton051108.html

***

Harper: F'n Jack and his NDP commies ruined my evil plan!!! Grrrr.......
Atta boy Layton. :D

Conservatives are a little left (but not much left) of the Republicans.
The liberals are the centrist party here, which means they're a lot further left than the Democrats.
The NDP are further left still.

I'm not sure where the Bloc sit, probably between the Liberals and the NDP, but they'll never gain power simply because they don't even run in enough ridings.
The Bloc is just about as left as the NDP.

He really did? What an asshole! :mad:
It was long before he was ever running the new Conservative party.

He does go there regularly and lie about shit though, for instance: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1049464033397_20?s_name=&no_ads=

I'll do more digging though.

The Bloc is just about as left as the NDP.
I don't ever have the opportunity to vote for them so I don't look into their platform so much. *shrugs*

Well, Harper is officially Canada's Ann Coulter. :rolleyes:

I don't ever have the opportunity to vote for them so I don't look into their platform so much. *shrugs*
I know of the Bloc's platform mostly from NS.

NDP ready to pull plug on Liberal government
Last Updated Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:36:33 EST
CBC News

A decision by NDP Leader Jack Layton has put Canadians on notice for a possible early winter federal election. "The time is approaching, sooner or later, for the Canadian people to render judgment on the Liberal party," he said on Monday.

Layton and his party are pulling their support from the Liberals, claiming the two parties have reached a fundamental impasse over health care. And without NDP support, the minority Liberals cannot survive a confidence vote in the House of Commons.

Layton used a speech in Toronto to announce the end of his party's loose alliance with the Liberals. "There's no basis for our party to express confidence in this government," he told the lunch-time crowd.

The NDP helped Paul Martin's government survive a confidence vote in the spring. In return it got $4.6 billion in social spending added to the federal budget. Layton offered to continue that support if the Liberals moved to reduce privatization in health care, but he couldn't get a deal.

"We cannot express confidence in a government unwilling to act on such a critical issue and we cannot express confidence in a government under the leadership of a party that cannot be trusted to clean up the politics it tainted," said Layton.

But even though the Liberals can't survive a confidence vote without the New Democrats, that doesn't mean the government is about to fall.

The Conservatives have an opposition day in the House next week, but Conservative Leader Stephen Harper says he won't bring forward a motion of non-confidence. He says he isn't even sure the NDP really wants to bring down the government.

"I'm not sure anything has changed .... Mr. Layton is not happy with the proposals he's had. He's not been happy with them for a while. And I'm not sure what his next move is, but it seems to me that he's still looking for leverage to get more out of the government rather than let the Canadian people have their say," said Harper.

The Bloc Québécois also has an opposition day next week. But Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe says it's up to the NDP and the Conservatives to decide whether they want to bring down the government before the end of the year.

The Liberals say Layton is playing games and they'll wait and see if they face a confidence motion.

Transport Minister Jean Lapierre says if the opposition parties want a winter campaign, then bring it on. "I may have to get my signs out and get ready to campaign in the snow. And I've done it before. I've done it in 1980 and I've survived. You know, it's darn cold. But when you win it's a nice warm feeling."

But the fact remains that with Layton pulling his support, all three opposition parties now stand ready to bring down the government, although none of them seems ready to actually do it and send the country into a holiday season election campaign.

***

Winter election?
I saw Layton deliver that speech. My school, in Toronto recieved a corporate sponsorship to attend a meeting of the prestigious Canadian Club and Empire Club of Canada
I was at the Sheraton Centre during the Canadian Club luncheon (If you see me on camera, I'm the guy with the longish blond, gelled down hair, uniformed in a white shirt and navy blue Marshall McLuhan tie).

Well, Harper is officially Canada's Ann Coulter. :rolleyes:


An anorexic nut job?

In the House of Commons, Opposition Leader Stephen Harper accused Martin of failing to stamp out the "anti-American rhetoric" in the Liberal party. Harper criticized one Liberal MP for blaming America for global terrorism.

Martin initially side-stepped the accusation, pointing to the Liberal government's cooperation with the U.S. in fighting terrorism.

But when Harper raised the subject again, Martin defended his party. He slammed Harper for appearing last year on Fox News and writing a letter in the Wall Street Journal criticizing Canada for not supporting the war in Iraq.

"We are not anti-Americans. Canadians are not anti-American. We are pro-Canadian. And I will tell you what pro-Canadian means.

"It means we would not go down to the United States and use an American television network to slam Canada.

"It means we would not write articles in the Wall Street Journal criticizing our country. We will have our debates within Canada," Martin said.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/11/03/martinbush041103.html

Like him or not, Martin brings up a good point. And Harper really shouldn't be going about acting like that. I mean, how would the american populace react if a politician running for president went to Canada and went on CBC and was interviwed going off about how he didn't like a particular american policy and lambasting americans for not supporting his point of view? Whether or not it's his right to go about and do so, he's a politician and has to expect that what he says will reflect on whether people trust him or not. I'm surprised he's still running the conservative party, to be honest, I would have thought they'd kick him out of command. And yeah, the Liberal MP's who made anti-american comments aren't excused at all either, imo.

It's hard to find original articles on the subject, as Harper was also invoved with criticizing the government for not allowing Fox News to air in Canada (another thing I'm amazed got through given that there's no canadian content on the channel...) There are a lot of articles refrencing the comments though.

This will be entertaining. If the NDP don't call the confidence vote, the Bloc and the Conservatives will try and make it look like they (the NDP) are still supporting the government... However, considering that these two parties are the ones who are the most vocally anti-Liberal, the opposite would seem to be more accurate to me: If the Tories or the Bloc don't call the vote, they are the ones supporting the government that they've been bashing for the last 18 months.

Sincerely,

Number III

I saw Layton deliver that speech. My school, in Toronto recieved a corporate sponsorship to attend a meeting of the prestigious Canadian Club and Empire Club of Canada
I was at the Sheraton Centre during the Canadian Club luncheon (If you see me on camera, I'm the guy with the longish blond, gelled down hair, uniformed in a white shirt and navy blue Marshall McLuhan tie).
Yea, you were the one picking his nose, right?

Lol

Yeah, you didn't hear about Harper's appearances on Fox news badmouthing Canada, did you?

I don't have time to watch TV anymore do to my schedule here at the University.

I don't have time to watch TV anymore do to my schedule here at the University.
It was around the time the U.S. was first getting into the war in Iraq.

It was around the time the U.S. was first getting into the war in Iraq.

Sorry. I had a tad more pressing matter. Like actually watching the war from my Television Set.

Sorry. I had a tad more pressing matter. Like actually watching the war from my Television Set.
Ok.

So if you didn't pay attention while this man went along and bashed his own country before asking us to elect him, then why are you trying to encourage us to give him a chance now? He hasn't been shown that he deserves one. Lyign about his fellow countrymen on another nation's tv network does not really inspire confidence.

Sorry. I had a tad more pressing matter. Like actually watching the war from my Television Set.
Sorry, I was just noticing how you'd capitalised that last bit. Kinda like capitalising the Laundry Hamper or your Recycling Bin. Places a weird emphasis on a given object... fetishises it, in a way (no, not a sexual way). Do you attach an undue significance to that damn noisebox?

'Cause by capitalising it, it gives that impression.

Just saying.

how quickly we forget


similar poll results were shown back in April..

Canadains will flock back to the LIberals at the last minute, DUH.

Same in Australia the only reason the liberals are in are because john howard did a scare tactic by saying interest rates would rise under labour he got elected and what happens INTEREST RATES START TO RISE.

Agreed - but as we have a stated and necessary goal of paying off our federal debt (the GDP to debt ratio was outrageous by the time Trudeau and Mulrooney were done - I've seen numbers as high as 73%), running surpluses are a good thing. At the moment we have a law that requires surplus to be placed against the debt. We've saved a ton on interest charges on debt owed to foreign countries by paying that debt off. (Despite that, we're still paying $35.8 billion in interest this year.)

However, a lot of provinces have instituted laws recently requiring balanced budgets every year, and that's a problem. If it is against the law to go into a deficit in a bad year (for example, in BC during the worst forest fire season in the history of the province), then you have to plan for all kinds of unpredictable extreme extremely expensive disasters and raise money through taxes to pay for them. Which means you automatically have a surplus at the end of the year, whether you planned for one or not (and have a use for one or not, such as paying off government debt). Balanced budgets are a good thing, don't get me wrong, but the balance should come over a number of years, as an average.

First off, I'd like to thank you for attributing the debt to both Mulroney and Trudeau. So often the current debt is automatically linked to the Mulroney era, so its nice to see someone not blaming him alone for it.

Secondly, I agree that laws against deficits are a bad idea. Like I said, a deficit isn't even necessarily a bad thing. In fact, many economists see it as a way of stimulating the economy for the short run (because it pumps more money into the system). Also, I seem to remember that a year or two ago there was some hooplah in the local papers because the Saskatchewan government was using questionable bookkeeping practices in order to make it look like they were running a surplus when in reality they were running a deficit. I don't know if they were doing that because of a law against deficits or just because they knew that it's much better to say "surplus" to the public than to say "deficit". Either way, it seemed to stem from the misconception that deficits are always bad and surpluses are always good.

This will be entertaining. If the NDP don't call the confidence vote, the Bloc and the Conservatives will try and make it look like they (the NDP) are still supporting the government... However, considering that these two parties are the ones who are the most vocally anti-Liberal, the opposite would seem to be more accurate to me: If the Tories or the Bloc don't call the vote, they are the ones supporting the government that they've been bashing for the last 18 months.

Sincerely,

Number IIIKinda weird, isn't it? Harper has been declaring for the last umpteen months that he will bring down the corrupt, unnacountable, irresponsible, Maritn Liberals at the first opportunity. And here it is, handed to him pn the siilver platter of a health care dispute pretence by Jack Layton.

But instead of jumping on it, he chooses not to trust the NDP's clear declaration of non-confidance and withhold action. It is quite bizzare. Each of the opposition parties are sidestepping into each other. I guess none of them want to be the poor bastard to cause an unpopular winter election campaign. I think the Conservatives, as the official opposition should be the ones to take the leadership and call a confidence vote - waiting for the NDP to do so is ludicrous.

Kinda weird, isn't it? Harper has been declaring for the last umpteen months that he will bring down the corrupt, unnacountable, irresponsible, Maritn Liberals at the first opportunity. And here it is, handed to him pn the siilver platter of a health care dispute pretence by Jack Layton.

But instead of jumping on it, he chooses not to trust the NDP's clear declaration of non-confidance and withhold action. It is quite bizzare. Each of the opposition parties are sidestepping into each other. I guess none of them want to be the poor bastard to cause an unpopular winter election campaign. I think the Conservatives, as the official opposition should be the ones to take the leadership and call a confidence vote - waiting for the NDP to do so is ludicrous.

Actually, I think waiting for the NDP to do it is a sound political strategy. He knows the polls look really good for him right now and nobody wants an election on Dec.27 which would probably be the case if the Conservatives push a Non-Confidence Motion at their next possible chance. If he waits for the NDP to do it the election will be in Early January which is a lot better. I think he is playing his cards right here.

The Bloc is just about as left as the NDP.

I really don't think you can pinpoint the Bloc anywhere on the Spectrum they are all over the place. All they really want is for Quebec to Seperate.

I really don't think you can pinpoint the Bloc anywhere on the Spectrum they are all over the place. All they really want is for Quebec to Seperate.
What, and miss out on their pensions?

*scoffs*

Seperatism is just a sabre they like rattling off and on. All they really want is to be populist.

On another note, the Conservatives have once again fallen behind the Liberals in the polls.

Liberals: 35%
Conservatives: 28%
NDP: 16%
Bloc: 13%
Green: 8%

The scary part is that the Green Party could get a seat.

Sincerely,

Number III

On another note, the Conservatives have once again fallen behind the Liberals in the polls.

Liberals: 35%
Conservatives: 28%
NDP: 16%
Bloc: 13%
Green: 8%

The scary part is that the Green Party could get a seat.

Sincerely,

Number IIIScary in a very good way. Mind, it is possible in this system for a party to have 49% of the popular vote and get 0 seats. So I'm not expecting a seat for the Greens.

Theoritically possible (but true).

Also, look at the NDP. Last election, the had only 13-14% popularity, but they still won 18 seats. The Bloc Had 11-12%, and won over 40 (I think, correct me if I am wrong).

Sincerely,

Number III

Its about time. The Liberals have been in power way too long. If the Gomery report didn't cause many Canadians to consider dumping the Liberals, I would have been very surprised.


This report?

An audit by the Gomery commission found Ottawa spent $355 million over a decade on sponsorships and related programs supposedly aimed at raising the federal profile in Quebec and fighting separatism.

About $150 million went to Liberal-friendly ad agencies and other middlemen, often for little or no real work.

The prime minister reiterated a promise to call an election within 30 days after Gomery delivers a second report, with recommendations for political and bureaucratic reforms, on Feb. 1.

Among opposition leaders, only Gilles Duceppe of the Bloc Quebecois was unequivocal in calling for an immediate election.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper hedged his bets, saying he's ready for an election any time but suggesting there's no chance of one as long as the NDP continues to prop up Martin's minority government.

NDP Leader Jack Layton indicate he still wants to strike a deal with Martin to strengthen public health care, though he didn't rule out withdrawing his support if that deal falls through.

Martin was obviously anxious to distance himself from the former Chretien regime, announcing that:

-Gomery's findings will be referred to the RCMP for possible further investigation.

-The government will expand a civil suit seeking the return of sponsorship cash from a number of ad firms, boosting the total sought to $57.9 million.

-The Liberals will pay the public treasury a total of $1.14 million to make up for money donated by sponsorship contractors.

-Liberal officials will take steps to impose a lifetime membership ban on 10 people - including former public works minister Alfonso Gagliano.

Jacques Corriveau, a longtime Chretien friend and ally whose firm, Pluri Design, received nearly $8 million in sponsorship business, was fingered as "the central figure in an elaborate kickback scheme by which he enriched himself personally and provided funds and benefits" to the Quebec wing of the Liberals.

Scary in a very good way.

From now on, I am going to use that line every time someone calls the Conservatives scary.

Theoritically possible (but true).

Also, look at the NDP. Last election, the had only 13-14% popularity, but they still won 18 seats. The Bloc Had 11-12%, and won over 40 (I think, correct me if I am wrong).

Sincerely,

Number III

We SO need electoral reforms.

Its about time. The Liberals have been in power way too long. If the Gomery report didn't cause many Canadians to consider dumping the Liberals, I would have been very surprised.
Actually, it reaffirmed my conviction that they are NOW the right party to vote for. They (and Paul Martin in particular) rooted out the garbage in the previous administration's wastebins, and took quick action to make their party respectable again.

We SO need electoral reforms.

NEVER!!! I hugely enjoy our British-born parliament, with all its quirks and archaisms...Look at the American government, its so quiet and there's only ever one person talking at a time on the sound clips...Its a crying shame.

If, on the other hand, you are only referring to first-past-the-post vs. proportional representation vs. other electoral (ONLY electoral) systems, I agree wholeheartedly.

Sincerely,

Number III

NEVER!!! I hugely enjoy our British-born parliament, with all its quirks and archaisms...Look at the American government, its so quiet and there's only ever one person talking at a time on the sound clips...Its a crying shame.

If, on the other hand, you are only referring to first-past-the-post vs. proportional representation vs. other electoral (ONLY electoral) systems, I agree wholeheartedly.

Sincerely,

Number III

I was talking about a better proportionnal representation, yes. It's sheer nonsense that 5% of the population (1 canadian out of 20) votes for the green and get squat green party MPs in office.

It's also equally ludicrous that the Bloc gets more seats than the NDP when they get less votes. It's stupid that the libs keep getting reelected because poeple vote strategically to avoid a conservative govt.

There are a lot of stupid things in the way our electoral system works.

Er..well then...(rapidly retracts former paragraph-long rant)...

Very good!

Sincerely,

Number III

There are a lot of stupid things in the way our electoral system works.

I would say quirky rather than stupid. the framework allows for many interesting things to happen. for example, in theory, a prime minister could be selected from any member of parliament (traditionally, the job is first offered to the leader of the party with the most seats - for rather obvious reasons). additionally, there is nothing (outside of party partisanship) to prevent a prime minister from selecting his cabinet from any member of parliament (this includes the senate).

the current stupidity in canadian politics has more to do with party partisanship than anything else. one day, I hope, members will be elected because they will first follow their conscience and the desires of those who elected them, rather than subjugation to their party’s overt and covert agendas.

incidentally, the bloc gets more seats out its popular vote percentage because they run in only a subset of ridings (i.e. only quebec ones).

The Bloc is just about as left as the NDP.

People always say this, but I don't buy it. According to their platform, they are, but in truth, I have yet to see an example of this. The main pillars of leftist/progressive agendas in Canada are health, education, and social welfare, which are disbursed by the province. The only role that the federal government plays is in giving money to the provinces for these things. The BQ may agitate for more money to Quebec and claim it is for these things, but to me it seems like a smokescreen for getting more money out of Ottawa, period. And to make themselves look good to their poor quebecois power base.

Tories take lead in opinion poll

Better look at the polls again, haha, not anymore! :)

Precisely.

Exaggeration. Or global warming. Or maybe it's those beetle infestations killing trees and making them more vulnerable.

Take your pick of the options or add your own.
Global Warming is an illusion created by environmental groups who want to keep us in a state of fear. See State of Fear by Michael Crichton circa 2004

So building attack helicopters, missiles and assault rifles is more important than caring for the sick, who will also happen to be our parents and grandparents?

No, thank you. I prefer to have a nurse for my mom's old days, than having a battleship to rain down explosives in a far away country just to be an american lapdog.
If Canada wants to continue to be the "peacekeepers" of the world are army needs a hell of lot more money. Would you risk being saved by one of those aged SeaKing Helicopters?

Theoritically possible (but true).

Also, look at the NDP. Last election, the had only 13-14% popularity, but they still won 18 seats. The Bloc Had 11-12%, and won over 40 (I think, correct me if I am wrong).

Sincerely,

Number III

The NDP had 15.7% of the vote and won 19 seats.
The Bloc had 12.4% of the vote and won 54 seats.

That's what happens when your vote is concentrated in a province with a lot of ridings. The Bloc may have only 12.4% of the vote in all of Canada, but they had 48.9% of the vote in Quebec, with the remainin 51.1% split their votes among the remaining parties.

Yeah... yeah, yeah. I think he and Bush'd make the bend-and-scoop of the Mulroney/Reagan dynamic look downright hostile, comparatively.

*vomits*
You know why Mulroney had a big chin? Bush's balls had to rest somewhere.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper hedged his bets, saying he's ready for an election any time but suggesting there's no chance of one as long as the NDP continues to prop up Martin's minority government.

NDP Leader Jack Layton indicate he still wants to strike a deal with Martin to strengthen public health care, though he didn't rule out withdrawing his support if that deal falls through.

Update: The health deal has fallen through and Layton is calling Harper's bluff, and saying he is ready to bring down the government.

Harper says he doesn't believe Layton and won't put out a non-confidence vote on his opposition day (which comes before the NDPs).

The real answer is that Harper and his people believe that whichever party forces an election that will be held over Christmas will be punished in the polls, and he wants that to be the NDP, not the Cons.

Global Warming is an illusion created by environmental groups who want to keep us in a state of fear. See State of Fear by Michael Crichton circa 2004

You are aware that Michael Crichton writes fiction, yes?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/11/03/martinbush041103.html

Like him or not, Martin brings up a good point. And Harper really shouldn't be going about acting like that. I mean, how would the american populace react if a politician running for president went to Canada and went on CBC and was interviwed going off about how he didn't like a particular american policy and lambasting americans for not supporting his point of view? Whether or not it's his right to go about and do so, he's a politician and has to expect that what he says will reflect on whether people trust him or not. I'm surprised he's still running the conservative party, to be honest, I would have thought they'd kick him out of command. And yeah, the Liberal MP's who made anti-american comments aren't excused at all either, imo.

It's hard to find original articles on the subject, as Harper was also invoved with criticizing the government for not allowing Fox News to air in Canada (another thing I'm amazed got through given that there's no canadian content on the channel...) There are a lot of articles refrencing the comments though.
Then there's the Bloc whose wholy policy is anti-Canadian.:mad:

This report?

An audit by the Gomery commission found Ottawa spent $355 million over a decade on sponsorships and related programs supposedly aimed at raising the federal profile in Quebec and fighting separatism.

About $150 million went to Liberal-friendly ad agencies and other middlemen, often for little or no real work.

The prime minister reiterated a promise to call an election within 30 days after Gomery delivers a second report, with recommendations for political and bureaucratic reforms, on Feb. 1.

Among opposition leaders, only Gilles Duceppe of the Bloc Quebecois was unequivocal in calling for an immediate election.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper hedged his bets, saying he's ready for an election any time but suggesting there's no chance of one as long as the NDP continues to prop up Martin's minority government.

NDP Leader Jack Layton indicate he still wants to strike a deal with Martin to strengthen public health care, though he didn't rule out withdrawing his support if that deal falls through.

Martin was obviously anxious to distance himself from the former Chretien regime, announcing that:

-Gomery's findings will be referred to the RCMP for possible further investigation.

-The government will expand a civil suit seeking the return of sponsorship cash from a number of ad firms, boosting the total sought to $57.9 million.

-The Liberals will pay the public treasury a total of $1.14 million to make up for money donated by sponsorship contractors.

-Liberal officials will take steps to impose a lifetime membership ban on 10 people - including former public works minister Alfonso Gagliano.

Jacques Corriveau, a longtime Chretien friend and ally whose firm, Pluri Design, received nearly $8 million in sponsorship business, was fingered as "the central figure in an elaborate kickback scheme by which he enriched himself personally and provided funds and benefits" to the Quebec wing of the Liberals.
The Gomery Commission cost more looking into AdScam than the Bush gov't spend looking into 9/11.:confused:

I don't have time to watch TV anymore do to my schedule here at the University.
Is this string about viewing habits or politics?:rolleyes:

You are aware that Michael Crichton writes fiction, yes?
The storyline is fiction but the arguments and stats he uses are true. In this, in particular, he gives references to all claims against global warming and you can look them up on the Net, et al to verify them. :)

Update: The health deal has fallen through and Layton is calling Harper's bluff, and saying he is ready to bring down the government.

Harper says he doesn't believe Layton and won't put out a non-confidence vote on his opposition day (which comes before the NDPs).

The real answer is that Harper and his people believe that whichever party forces an election that will be held over Christmas will be punished in the polls, and he wants that to be the NDP, not the Cons.

New Update: Layton says on the 24th, the NDP will bring forward a motion for there to be a February election.

I still find it entertaining how the Conservatives and the Bloc (but especially the Tories where I come from), having spent the last year-and-a-half or so saying that the Liberals are evil and/or corrupt, will now quietly bow out of trying to bring down the government. Mr. Harper, look who's supporting the Liberals now?

Sincerely,

Number III

New Update: Layton says on the 24th, the NDP will bring forward a motion for there to be a February election.

I still find it entertaining how the Conservatives and the Bloc (but especially the Tories where I come from), having spent the last year-and-a-half or so saying that the Liberals are evil and/or corrupt, will now quietly bow out of trying to bring down the government. Mr. Harper, look who's supporting the Liberals now?

Sincerely,

Number III

Now? It's not just now - it was also then. Mr. Harper should be offered the Mr. Dither's badge himself - back in February of this year, the Conservatives were backing the Liberal budget before they decided to vote against it - which gave Jack the opening for the "NDP Budget".

If Canada wants to continue to be the "peacekeepers" of the world are army needs a hell of lot more money. Would you risk being saved by one of those aged SeaKing Helicopters?

What makes you think I want Canada to continue being the "peacekeepers of our world"? Keeping peace is a burden that falls equally on all nations, not just us.

Global Warming is an illusion created by environmental groups who want to keep us in a state of fear. See State of Fear by Michael Crichton circa 2004
Then why 10-15 years ago there were bad snow storms on a regular basis(every second year) and now we are lucky for it to snow at all.

Then why 10-15 years ago there were bad snow storms on a regular basis(every second year) and now we are lucky for it to snow at all.

Weather Cycles Posi. Weather Cycles. You'll have a few years of bad snow storms followed by a few years of mild winters. Its a vicious cycle.

Eight years to go for the next major snow storm to hit Pittsburgh.

Weather Cycles Posi. Weather Cycles. You'll have a few years of bad snow storms followed by a few years of mild winters. Its a vicious cycle.

Eight years to go for the next major snow storm to hit Pittsburgh.
Notice how my post went from a question to a statement?

Anyways, I think that once we get back to the cold part of the cycle, it will not be as cold as it was 10 years ago. WTF global warming has to do with this thread, I do not know.

Vote NDP. Tax n' spend! Tax n' spend!

This assertion that the party that forces the election will be punished in the polls. Is there any truth to that? Or is that just a nasty myth that's been circulated by the parties in power to allow them to stay in longer?

I know that from where I sit, I'll probably be voting Green, regardless. However, if the NDP calls down the government, I'd be willing to give their candidate a second look. Any party that believes in democracy firmly enough to take it to the people, risking their own seats in the process? That strikes me as a good thing, not a bad one.

Of course, my distaste of the conservatives is enough that even if they were the ones who brought it down, I still wouldn't vote for them.

Forgive me for asking, but what exactly do you mean by "parties in power"? To my knowledge, (unless there is a coalition government, which Canada does not have), only one party forms the government at any given time.

On another note, I see little reason why people would punish the party that brought down the government, but I see little reason why people would do many things they do, so don't ask me.

Sincerely,

Number III
I think he means the Liberals, Conservatives, Bloc and NDP. They have seats in parliment and can change law in Canada, while the other seven are unable to change things directly.

On another note, the Conservatives have once again fallen behind the Liberals in the polls.

Liberals: 35%
Conservatives: 28%
NDP: 16%
Bloc: 13%
Green: 8%

The scary part is that the Green Party could get a seat.

Sincerely,

Number IIIActually it would really intresting to see a Green MP in parliament. BTW, thank god the Conservatives had fallen in the polls. *sigh of relieve*

Tories take lead in opinion poll

Last Updated Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:08:31 EST
CBC News

A new poll conducted after the release of the Gomery report suggests the Conservatives have now pulled ahead of the Liberals in public support.

The poll, conducted by the Strategic Counsel and published Saturday, suggests the Tories have the support of 31 per cent of Canadians, an increase of six percentage points from a similar poll carried out three weeks ago.

Although Justice John Gomery exonerated Prime Minister Paul Martin in his report on the sponsorship scandal, the poll found the issue has eroded Liberal support across the country.

The Liberals have 28 per cent, down 10 percentage points from an Oct. 14 poll. The NDP trails with 20 per cent, and the Bloc Québécois is at 13 per cent.

The pollsters interviewed 1,000 people, starting one day after the Gomery report was released.

The Oct. 2-3 survey, conducted for the Globe and CTV, is considered accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. With that kind of margin of error, the Liberals and Conservatives could be seen to be in a virtual tie for support.

In seat-rich Ontario, the two parties leading in the poll each had 35 per cent of support. The NDP now leads in British Columbia, while the Bloc has 57 per cent of the francophone vote.

The results may be just the political ammunition the opposition needs to trigger an election, Strategic Counsel chair Allan Gregg told the Globe.

The prime minister promised to call an election 30 days after Gomery's second report, due in February.

Martin will talk about the interim report during his two-minute radio address on Sunday.

***

:eek: :eek: :eek:

If the Conservatives get elected to power, can somebody suggest which country should I flee to? (Besides the states)

BTW, the good news is that the NDP is leading in BC.:p



The NDP is an ignorant, irrelevant party....

The NDP is an ignorant, irrelevant party....
Could you support this some how? Or should I take it as seriously Enzite?

The NDP is an ignorant, irrelevant party....

Gee, thank you for providing the reasons why you think that.

Here's an essay question for you. Support your assertion using facts, not opinion and innuendo. You have two hours starting from...mark.

Good luck, class.

The Conservatives is an ignorant, irrelevant party....fixed :D

The NDP is an ignorant, irrelevant party....
Either that, or the NDP isn't - though you yourself might neatly fall under a header for the first term you used as a descriptor.

Either that, or the NDP isn't - though you yourself might neatly fall under a header for the first term you used as a descriptor.
*reads*
*Thinks*
Burn.

I can't beleive that Jack Layton isn't going to put forward a motion of non-confidence. WHAT A WIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

I can't beleive that Jack Layton isn't going to put forward a motion of non-confidence. WHAT A WIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:


Did you miss my thread on that yesterday?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=453190

What makes you think I want Canada to continue being the "peacekeepers of our world"? Keeping peace is a burden that falls equally on all nations, not just us.
If everyone in the world said it's up to someone else then nothing good would ever be done.
Evil happens when good men do nothing. (I can't remember who said that anyone help me with that?)

Then why 10-15 years ago there were bad snow storms on a regular basis(every second year) and now we are lucky for it to snow at all.
It's a nataural flux in climate.

Notice how my post went from a question to a statement?

Anyways, I think that once we get back to the cold part of the cycle, it will not be as cold as it was 10 years ago. WTF global warming has to do with this thread, I do not know.
It's just one of those things that happened. HAHAHHA

This assertion that the party that forces the election will be punished in the polls. Is there any truth to that? Or is that just a nasty myth that's been circulated by the parties in power to allow them to stay in longer?

Oh it's true. Because whiny Candians need someone to whine about!!!! DOH!. I saw call the damn election already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why on November 24 (26?) Layton is just going to put a motion forward suggesting that the government call an election. It won't be a motion of non-confidence. :mad:

Oh it's true. Because whiny Candians need someone to whine about!!!! DOH!. I saw call the damn election already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why on November 24 (26?) Layton is just going to put a motion forward suggesting that the government call an election. It won't be a motion of non-confidence. :mad:

There is a budget bill on Dec. 8. That is automatically a confidence vote. IF they wanted to bring down the government right away, they have an opportunity right there. Layton and Duceppe have said they won't be supporting the budget. Harper says he doesn't know yet.

Did you miss my thread on that yesterday?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=453190

If I may suggest you read what Silliopolous wrote, you may get a little better insight to the realities of what is going on.

Also to add to the stupidity of what the NDP is proposing.. I give you NDP motion won't fly, says constitutional guru (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=8a519efe-d86e-4aa4-b429-ce789c1beb1d)

If I may suggest you read what Silliopolous wrote, you may get a little better insight to the realities of what is going on.

Also to add to the stupidity of what the NDP is proposing.. I give you NDP motion won't fly, says constitutional guru (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=8a519efe-d86e-4aa4-b429-ce789c1beb1d)

Nothing short of a non-confidence vote is likely to dissuade the Liberals from their electoral timetable.

"At first, the opposition said they were set to kill but now they're demanding we commit suicide," one senior Liberal said Wednesday. "It's absurd."

How all this posturing plays outside Ottawa's self-obsessed chattering class is the wild card for both the opposition parties and the government.

Even Franks, sceptical as he is about the NDP motion's constitutional merits, says as much.

"This is real-life politics," he said. "It's not like a movie. There's no pre-determined ending."

Er..hate to break it to you, but even the "constitutional guru" says the motion could hypothetically pass...not to mention the fact that if the Liberals stick to their timetable, the election will end up in early/mid March anyway, so it doesn't make that much of a difference in the end (other than forcing the Liberals to keep their promise!)

Sincerely,

Number III

There is a budget bill on Dec. 8. That is automatically a confidence vote. IF they wanted to bring down the government right away, they have an opportunity right there. Layton and Duceppe have said they won't be supporting the budget. Harper says he doesn't know yet.
The Bloc, NDP and the Conservatives have way more chances to bring in a non-confidence vote before Dec. 8.
Paul Martin said today that he ain't going to listen to Layton's plea for him to call an election. On and on and on. Anyone remember how long Martin said he would call an election after the Gomery Report was released?

The Bloc, NDP and the Conservatives have way more chances to bring in a non-confidence vote before Dec. 8.
Paul Martin said today that he ain't going to listen to Layton's plea for him to call an election. On and on and on. Anyone remember how long Martin said he would call an election after the Gomery Report was released?

30 days.

30 days.
Bastard better do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :)

Bastard better do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :)

Oh don't worry, when the full report comes out in I believe Feb. he will call an election. He's not a stupid man. The Liberals I believe will win a majority government after the Canadian people finally get to see that Paul Martin had nothing to do with the scandal and in fact had fallen out of favour with old Jean at the time anyway. Paul Martin has cleaned house of all who were involved and he is the one after all who called for the Gomery inquiry to begin with. Paul Martin who has served this country well with balanced budget after balanced budget and trade surpluses up the ying yang should not be made to pay for the sins of the last PM.

Oh don't worry, when the full report comes out in I believe Feb. he will call an election. He's not a stupid man. The Liberals I believe will win a majority government after the Canadian people finally get to see that Paul Martin had nothing to do with the scandal and in fact had fallen out of favour with old Jean at the time anyway. Paul Martin has cleaned house of all who were involved and he is the one after all who called for the Gomery inquiry to begin with. Paul Martin who has served this country well with balanced budget after balanced budget and trade surpluses up the ying yang should not be made to pay for the sins of the last PM.

I personally agree with you. Unfortunately, if it were that self-evident (or if people were smart enough to realize that it were that self-evident), then the Conservatives/NDP/Bloc wouldn't be putting the same kind of pressure on the govt.

What I mean is, if only people would realize the truth of what you've said, we'd be able to finally get rid of those bothersome Tories. Yay!!!

Stephistan, as much as I respect your political acumen, I think it very much wishful thinking to believe the Liberals will get a majority in the next election, regardless of when it is called. The Bloc is very adroit at funneling Quebec rage over the scandals (because it really does make Quebec look bad) at the Liberal party. Meanwhile, the Tories will take most of the northern and rural ridings in BC, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and even Ontario. The Liberals, the NDP, and a few red Tories will pick up the urban ridings and the Atlantic provinces, and either the Libs or the NDP will pick up the Territories. Alberta will probably finally go all blue - the two Liberal seats were very close contests the last time. Many Edmontonians are very fervant Liberals but I think they'll get outnumbered this time.

My election prediction is more of the same minority government, only with even less ability for the Libs and the NDP to face down the Conservatives and Bloc:

Libs: 115 CPC: 105 Bloc: 62 NDP: 26

I, too, predict a liberal minority government. But I think the bloc will loose a few seats in quebec to the liberals and that Ontario will go a bit more to the liberals than the last time. Alberta and Saskatchewan will be all alliance (excuse me, conservative party) with a few NDP some places. BC will be a wildcard where I can see a few riding going to the NDP, vancouver staying liberal and the countryside going conservative.

It will be a liberal government with the NDP holding the balance of power.

Oh don't worry, when the full report comes out in I believe Feb. he will call an election. He's not a stupid man. The Liberals I believe will win a majority government after the Canadian people finally get to see that Paul Martin had nothing to do with the scandal and in fact had fallen out of favour with old Jean at the time anyway. Paul Martin has cleaned house of all who were involved and he is the one after all who called for the Gomery inquiry to begin with. Paul Martin who has served this country well with balanced budget after balanced budget and trade surpluses up the ying yang should not be made to pay for the sins of the last PM.
The full report??? What the hell was just released last week?:confused:

As my dear late Mother used to say - Oy Gavalt!!!!!!!!! Paul Martin may not be as bad as Chretien but he was the freaking Minister of Finance. Come on. Okay Gomery said he didn't know anything was going on. Hmmm. I think that means he IS a stupid man!!!!!!!!!!! It's time for him and his cronies to go. Despite his limited and futile attempts to purge the Liberal government his days of wishy washy, flip-flopping government must end!!!!!!!!!!! Screw better the devil we do know than the one we don't - BRING IN THE CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I am a tradiational left winger but even I have my limits!!!!!!!!!)