NationStates Jolt Archive

Good points here, some of them familiar, some of them downright scary.

So... How does your country score in relation to this test?

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
-----------------------------------------------

Many of the points here are worth discussing. Let's try to do so with an open mind and as little flaming as possible. Also, try to be as critical of your own country as you'd be of others... You know who I'm talking to here.

Finland has a clear record!! :D

Finland has a clear record!! :D

We Scandinavians stand united! :D

1 out of 14 and it's not the way it says it in the describtion so you could say 0/14.

Something between 0/14 and 3/14, depending on your point of view.

Something between 0/14 and 3/14, depending on your point of view.How well do you think Bavarians would score? :D

We EUROPEANS stand united! :D

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
[B]


this is only the only one canada has any problems with......but rampant cronyism and corruption is also a characteristic of democracy so i'll give canada 0/14.

Hehe just as I though bush is an evil dictator encouraging evill faciste ways. my US scored realy high hench why bush must be crushed

I'm having a hard time matching any of those to Canada... except 13, with the whole sponsorship scandal and whatnot... but they're not really protecting whoever is found at fault... Chretien is screwed. :P 0/14. :)

Where's the Americans, dammit!? Anyhoo, I can count 12/14. :eek:

I count Canada as a European nation. So, Europe's having a clear record. I am pleased.

How well do you think Bavarians would score? :D

Bavaria would be 10/14. But hey, they are Bavarians, nobody takes them serious, :D

We EUROPEANS stand united! :D

You're forgetting Eastern and Southern Europe, but maybe they shouldn't count? ;)

Britain gets about 6/14... but I like patriotism. I just like the hats ok! Is that so bad?

You're forgetting Eastern and Southern Europe, but maybe they shouldn't count? ;)

Whoops, true that! Umm... Russia aint a part of Europe, that's for sure... Most of it lies behind Urals. Ukraine and Belorussia are para-russians... Baltic states also, except Estonia perhaps (which is a Southern Province of Finland) that has a clear record. Poland, Romania, Bulgaria... Ummm... Let's just quietly ignore them, shall we?

Whoops, true that! Umm... Russia aint a part of Europe, that's for sure... Most of it lies behind Urals. Ukraine and Belorussia are para-russians... Baltic states also, except Estonia perhaps (which is a Southern Province of Finland) that has a clear record. Poland, Romania, Bulgaria... Ummm... Let's just quietly ignore them, shall we?
I think we have to ignore Italy too. (point 6)

Britain gets about 6/14... but I like patriotism. I just like the hats ok! Is that so bad?

http://www.ukpartyshop.co.uk/partypages_pics/11203.jpg

In light of that, yes.

Piekrom']Hehe just as I though bush is an evil dictator encouraging evill faciste ways. my US scored realy high hench why bush must be crushed

That's what I started off thinking... but some of them don't apply to the US. Just a high percentage of them do.
For instance, the media isn't CONTROLLED by the gov't. There are points of view publicly stated that don't mimic the republican voice. Although censorship in time of war can be seen... anyone remember that show getting canned when the guy said "We're the cowards, dropping bombs from miles away" sorta thing? Hrmm..

Okay, well the labour movement hasn't been crushed! ... has it? I haven't heard anything about that, anyway. Sure... you get places like Walmart... and a ton of outsourcing to other countries that don't have labour laws... FINE! Next!

I most certainly haven't heard about any teachers being arrested! Just.... y'know... the whole teaching creationism as science... it's not arresting... are they censoring evolution?

Okay, I got ya here. The police force doesn't have limitless power! In New Orleans, those policemen beat up that guy for "public intoxication" but they didn't get away with it... there was/is an investigation... I think. Anyone hear anything about that lately?

And although there were mysterious ballots showing up for Bush in the ballot boxes on election day before anyone had even cast a vote, the election was not put to a halt, so it MUST have been legitimate in all cases, other than those few that found problems... right?

So, the US isn't a TOTAL fascist monster... it scored... what? 12? 13 out of 14?
errr... it could be worse...?

In the us we are barely clearing 11, 5, and 2 but five we are already covering with the new supreem court nominie. cenorship is aleay becoming more and more. and let us not forget about abugrve and guntanimou bay(sp?)

http://www.ukpartyshop.co.uk/partypages_pics/11203.jpg

In light of that, yes.

Yes... you see... they're irresisitable.

I think we have to ignore Italy too. (point 6)

Oh, Italy is part of United States. I didn't even consider counting it.

Australia's getting close with #2 & has flirted with #3 & #7 due our participation in the war in Iraq.

I think #9 happens in pretty much any type of state.

now why would the us want italy they are worth nothing to us

Piekrom']now why would the us want italy they are worth nothing to us

You lack cultural cred. They could be a way for you to get it. ;)

you think america cares about italian culture all we need is their pizza and spaggetty and we are happy plus france and england and germany have far better culturs

Piekrom']now why would the us want italy they are worth nothing to us

I count Italians as part of USA because of the incredible level of ignorance you share with them ;)

Piekrom']you think america cares about italian culture all we need is there pizza and spaetty and we are happy plus france and england and germany have far better culturs

...says someone who is lacking the faintest clue of what those cultures might actually include. :rolleyes:

1, 3 and 12, Madnestan..?
#1 "what does the elephant think of us Finns..?". A racer wins and it's suddenly a win 'for us Finns'..?
#3 Oh, I don't know, take your pick. It's never your own fault. (but thenagain, that's universal thing methinks)
#12 Oh! that is definately part of the Finnish psyche. The police doesn't have limitless power, but the hoi polloi would definately want it to punish the rich or otherwise better-off.

I give us 12-

Edit: or 2+... however that is measured.

Piekrom']you think america cares about italian culture all we need is their pizza and spaggetty and we are happy plus france and england and germany have far better culturs
English better then Italian?

the only people who are ignorent are thouse on the right us on the left have been fighting to bring back some common sence to people but is not working to well espesialy thanks to riging of poitics in the south. they have always caused the us problems

italian culture died at the end of the roman empire and you only had a brief blip during the renissance which was then tken over by the more western nations they also developed te industrial revoulution beter miltary history and they carry more weight then italy ever will.

1, 3 and 12, Madnestan..?
#1 "what does the elephant think of us Finns..?". A racer wins and it's suddenly a win 'for us Finns'..?
#3 Oh, I don't know, take your pick. It's never your own fault. (but thenagain, that's universal thing methinks)
#12 Oh! that is definately part of the Finnish psyche. The police doesn't have limitless power, but the hoi polloi would definately want it to punish the rich or otherwise better-off.

I give us 12-

Edit: or 2+... however that is measured.

I beg to disagree. It is not fanatical, fierce patriotism if Finns are happy that our hockey team is succesfull (what it never is, but let's not get stuck with that :( ), and it is certainly enough to be labelled as "fascist".

Three is somewhat true... The anti-Russian feelings live still strong in here. Perhaps it should be 1/14 for that. I aint sure. Guess it's forgiveable considering our history.

I don't think the police has really that much power. It is quite damn rare to ehar that police has beaten someone, not to mention fired a weapon, now is it? Besides, every time that happens, the actions of that policeman are investigated very carefully.

Mä en ees tajuu kaikkee mitä sanot... jätkä käyttää vaikeempaa englantia ku englantilaiset ite ;D

Piekrom']italian culture died at the end of the roman empire and you only had a brief blip during the renissance which was then tken over by the more western nations they also developed te industrial revoulution beter miltary history and they carry more weight then italy ever will.

I am not sure whether I should make this fellow look ridiculous by crushing his every claim... What do you people think? (;) )

I am not sure whether I should make this fellow look riduculous by crushing his every claim... What do you people think? (;) )
Verdi and Garibaldi biscuits should suffice for now.

I am not sure whether I should make this fellow look riduculous by crushing his every claim... What do you people think? (;) )

He's obviously a fool, I wouldn't bother.

I am not sure whether I should make this fellow look riduculous by crushing his every claim... What do you people think? (;) )
http://www.emotioneric.com/takingcandyfromababy.jpg

Piekrom']italian culture died at the end of the roman empire and you only had a brief blip during the renissance which was then tken over by the more western nations they also developed te industrial revoulution beter miltary history and they carry more weight then italy ever will.
I can't read through the shroud of bullshit and idiocy. Not to mention the horrible mechanics and diction.

I beg to disagree. It is not fanatical, fierce patriotism if Finns are happy that our hockey team is succesfull (what it never is, but let's not get stuck with that :( ), and it is certainly enough to be labelled as "fascist".

Mä en ees tajuu kaikkee mitä sanot... jätkä käyttää vaikeempaa englantia ku englantilaiset ite ;D
Glad you agree with #3. We just must agree to disagree on #2, cos I do see Finns as BIG nationalists. I just meant that the ordinary people would have nought against the police coming harder on the rich with that #12, kinda weird, won't you say?

http://www.emotioneric.com/takingcandyfromababy.jpg

Genious! Witty, pithy, succint & perfectly conveys your point.:p

Well, I made a typo in the word "ridiculous" so guess I have no credibility to try to humiliate anyone today...

Glad you agree with #3. We just must agree to disagree on #2, cos I do see Finns as BIG nationalists. I just meant that the ordinary people would have nought against the police coming harder on the rich with that #12, kinda weird, won't you say?

No. Rich people are evil, and police should come harder at them. Not physically, that is. It surely aint fascism if the ordinary people is not against that, IMO.

No. Rich people are evil, and police should come harder at them. Not physically, that is. It surely aint fascism if the ordinary people is not against that, IMO.
Lol
Aight! Then cummon! I'm rich... :D

Aaah, You just wait, when the revolution comes I'll make sure Bunnyducks will be first in the line! Rich people belong to "behind the sauna" as the saying goes... :D

My claim was that Italian culture is worthless on a world scale as well as the nation of Italy.

http://www.bushflash.com/14.html

god bless america! :D

Piekrom']My claim was that Italian culture is worthless on a world scale as well as the nation of Italy.Awww. Italian culture surely isn't. And your nation will get better after that prostate cancer called berlusconi is removed. Cheer up!

The US, from an American sailor.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -True of the majority of countries out there.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Not true. The rules and laws in effect here are very stringent. Notice only the CIA appears to be violating this, not the federal government. IMO, the CIA should be done away with.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -I object to the wording of "perceived threat" as the threat has materialized against US soil and other US property numerous times.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
The wording of disproportionate means that this one is not true of the US. Defense is a small wedge of the US domestic spending, less than 20% overall.

5. Rampant Sexism -
Divorce abortion and homosexuality have nothing to do with sexism. And there are many more women in power in the US than in many national governments.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
No censorship in the mass media. If there was, we wouldn't keep seeing all the [unsubstantiated] reports of human rights abuses, anti-war protests, numbers of casualties, etc. Shows like The Family Guy, The War at Home, The Simpsons, etc all thrive on US television.

7. Obsession with National Security -
I'm not afraid. National security, rightfully so, is a priority of any nation wishing to maintain itself, but fear is not bandied about to trump up anti-terrorism laws. Not like it appears happened in Britain last week.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
The tenets of Christianity are not diametrically opposed to US policy. Many members of the government throughout history invoked religion in public speeches, etc. I'll chalk this up to be true, but would like to point out that religion and government we completely divested in the USSR and Nazi Germany.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
This I agree with, and it sucks because both major parties do it. It's why I left the Republican party, and I can't join the Democratic one because they're just as bad.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Definitely not. Labor unions have all kinds of power here.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Not true here. I don't consider Ward Churchill to be either an intellectual or a proponent of the arts, and that's what people will point to. Intellectuals and artists go far here.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
No national police force. Local police forces have strict rules and police brutality, when it occurs, gets stamped immediately.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
As someone else mentioned, this is true of any government.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
I've seen both the Democrats and Republicans try this here. Overall, I think despite the problems, the people who are in office were fairly elected.

I give the US 6/14.

Know what??? I find 11 common points in the Aznar's government... and 0 in Zapatero's...

The US, from an American sailor.

True of the majority of countries out there.

Besides the point.

Not true. The rules and laws in effect here are very stringent. Notice only the CIA appears to be violating this, not the federal government. IMO, the CIA should be done away with.

You are obviously in a better position to know this then me. I agree with your conclusion, though. Also, I would say that the human rights abuses are accepted by the public, to far too great a degree, not so much that they are present in all government and military branches.

I object to the wording of "perceived threat" as the threat has materialized against US soil and other US property numerous times.

I agree, but I also say that the threat is exaggerated and used as a way to rally public support around a candidate or cause that really doesn't have much to do with it.

The wording of disproportionate means that this one is not true of the US. Defense is a small wedge of the US domestic spending, less than 20% overall.

50% is the number I've always known. I'll try to get back to you with a source.

Divorce abortion and homosexuality have nothing to do with sexism. And there are many more women in power in the US than in many national governments.

I think the homosexuality and devorce went with the government being defender of the family part. And more then other government's is, once again, besides the point. We also have alot less then other governments. That is also besides the point. The point is, the upper echolons are vastly male dominated.

No censorship in the mass media. If there was, we wouldn't keep seeing all the [unsubstantiated] reports of human rights abuses, anti-war protests, numbers of casualties, etc. Shows like The Family Guy, The War at Home, The Simpsons, etc all thrive on US television.

You can't say there's no cencorship. There is both offical, and unofficial cencorship. The shows you named are hardly a real threat to the power of the government or the rich.


I'm not afraid. National security, rightfully so, is a priority of any nation wishing to maintain itself, but fear is not bandied about to trump up anti-terrorism laws. Not like it appears happened in Britain last week.

Fear very much was and is used to push through legeslation that people would normally object to, or at least look at a bit more throughly. Yes, national security is important, protecting the people under it is one of the prime responcibilities of government, but many other countries arn't so fanatical about it, and keep their people perfectly safe. I also think it is used as a controling tactic in this country.


The tenets of Christianity are not diametrically opposed to US policy.

Yes it is.
"Love those who would do your harm"
"If a man strikes you, don't strike back, offer him your other cheek to strike"
"What good is it to gain the world but lose your soul?"
"If you have 2 coats, and another man has none, give him your coat"
"It is easyer for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter Heaven"
"If a man would sue you and take your cloak, off him your shirt too"

et cetera

This I agree with, and it sucks because both major parties do it. It's why I left the Republican party, and I can't join the Democratic one because they're just as bad.

Here we agree perfectly

Definitely not. Labor unions have all kinds of power here.

See above.

In some cases, the union can be a explotive as those they claim to protect the worker from. In many cases, workers are left with little or no leverage or power, union or no. The laws are on the books, enforcement is another matter.


Not true here. I don't consider Ward Churchill to be either an intellectual or a proponent of the arts, and that's what people will point to. Intellectuals and artists go far here.

Depends on where in the US.


No national police force. Local police forces have strict rules and police brutality, when it occurs, gets stamped immediately.

The FBI is a nation police force. And the police brutality thing is only true to a point. It goes unpunished ALOT more then people think. Especially in the cities, and at any protest that turns chaotic. I've seen enough of it, and my friend is a Black Cross street medic, and some of the stories he could tell you would really make you question things.

I'd also like to add, thank you for the job you do. I admire your courage and dedication.

<snip>


Meh I have a better list around somewhere. Though probably in a box.

Piekrom']Hehe just as I though bush is an evil dictator encouraging evill faciste ways. my US scored realy high hench why bush must be crushed

Yeah I count from either 6 to 8 depending on past situations.

-snip-
1. Almost there (you don't see flags everywhere, but really)
2. Hm. Every week there's a report on somebody's rights getting flushed. And we were rumored, just the other day, to host American secret prisons for war criminals (not really true, but the thought that it was pinned down to my country shows what we're expected to be).
3. Sure: the Gypsies.
4. In every poll, Romanians pick the military and the Orthodox Church as the insitutions they trust mostly.
5. Definately (only 2% women in the administrative and legislative branches).
6. In some cases. Actually, the problem here is that the media are doing whatever in their power not to disagree with the gvt.
7. Oh, yeah. We have that. And we sent troops to Iraq to help us deal with the Islamic threat. (Yes, that's how it was percieved.)
8. See point 4. Also, the Church will not understand that ours is a secular state. The notion is foreign to them.
9. Isn't it protected everywhere now?
10. Not really suppressed. Just non-existent.
11. We are self-made men (jeez!).
12. Most Romanians appear to want to be allowed to shoot anyone that enters their property. They also put pressure on the state to revert to capital punishment.
14. It is very likely that both of the main parties have engaged in fraud. One has out-frauded the other.

(That being said, I have to point out that the questionnaire is over-simplified and sometimes just plain wrong. But it'll do.)

The test is complete bullshit.

Most of the points will apply to every single country that is in a state of war.

Religion and government were not intertwined in the Nazi Germany, nor in the Fascist Italy, nor in the Third world regimes that drew on the fascist model (Saddam's Iraq, Assad's Syria, Nasser's Egypt). In fact, fascism tends to be agressively secular, as religion interferes with the ruling ideology and the church is seen as a competitor.

"Disdain for the recognition of human rights" is far too vague to be a valid criteria, since human rights are themselves not a clearly defined concept, nor is "disdain" any more clear.

Claims of fraudulent elections are raised in every democracy more or less at any elections. It is, if you will, the battlecry of the losers. The real difference between fascist and demoratic elections is that the fascist elections are held in the absence of political opposition. Taking Saddam and Nasser again as examples, the vote in their regimes was confined to "do you approve/idsapprove on the current ruler", while no alternative candidates were presented.

The same with "rampart corruption and cronyism". Aside from the vague meaning of the terms, they are not traits confined exclusively to fascism.

The notion that "organized labor power" is the only threat to fascism is blatant idiocy. In fact, one could claim that fascism originates from that very organized labor power. Fascism relies on blind support of the crowds, not the elites. Hitler's party was a worker party.

"Disdain for intellectuals and the arts" is also not a valid characteristic of fascism. Fascism seeks to recruit arts, not abolish them.

I can't read through the shroud of bullshit and idiocy. Not to mention the horrible mechanics and diction.

well...italy certainly has a very proud cultural history, this is true. i'd be a madman to sit here and list all of the da vincis and fibbonaccis and paganinis and dantes and...

nonetheless, i think both germany and england have certainly outdone italy rather embarassingly over the last 250 years or so.

i mean, what do you have to counter beethoven, darwin, floyd, neubauten, einstein, gauss, etc...

the flip side is that italy was more than a little ahead 2500 years ago :)

Religion and government were not intertwined in the Nazi Germany


of course it was.....it just wasn't the christian religion. nazi ideology drew heavily from traditional german paganism.


The notion that "organized labor power" is the only threat to fascism is blatant idiocy. In fact, one could claim that fascism originates from that very organized labor power. Fascism relies on blind support of the crowds, not the elites. Hitler's party was a worker party.


hitler's party was a worker's party, but hitler was a tool of the standard oil.

the idiocy here is the common misconception that labour unions are run by labour interests. this was certainly true at one point but has not been for a very long time.

fascism was never anything more than a way for the elites to maintain a grip on power by controlling the workers. the illusion of a self-sufficient workers party was exactly that which the elites wished to create in order to prevent revolt and disarray and to get the dregs to be easily pliable.

hitler was just as much a carefully crafted pr creation thought up by a bunch of faceless executives behind closed doors as bush is.

of course it was.....it just wasn't the christian religion. nazi ideology drew heavily from traditional german paganism.
There was nothing traditional about the version of Paganism that the Nazis occasionally referred to. It was most certainly not the most common religion in the country as the test would have us believe.


hitler's party was a worker's party, but hitler was a tool of the standard oil.
Which doesn't refute my point.


the idiocy here is the common misconception that labour unions are run by labour interests. this was certainly true at one point but has not been for a very long time.
That too.

New Zealand is a Liberal Paradise

All Countries are Fascist in one way or another. Some more than others. If I was in power, I'd be considered an Authoritarian Fascist in many respects as well. And so would anyone else for that matter.

Portugal rates (-)4/14

Denmark rates from 0 to 3 out of 14.

nr. 1 (this is only true when looking at the flag (which they are less fanatical about than the americans) or the nationalist party (which is a nationalist party, so duh), also it is Not true of every nation out there. There are Plenty of nations that are not nationalistic at all, compared to the fascist nations).

nr. 8 (partially true. It has no effect on the government, but the head of state (the monarch) has to be of a particular denomination (protestant lutheran) according to the law).

nr. 12 (as was pointed out, this is true of most democracies. I don't think it's rampant in Denmark though).

And due to the comments in paranthese, that is why it ranges somewhere between 0 and 3, depending on your point of view.