NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, overall, I'm not entirely sure of that, but the US has the "Americans with Disabilities Act (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm)" which basically protects the disabled from varies forms of discrimination, though we have something similar in the Canadian Charter, but the Act also includes the Architectural Barrier Act (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/cguide.htm#anchor66055) which "requires that buildings and facilities that are designed, constructed, or altered with Federal funds, or leased by a Federal agency, comply with Federal standards for physical accessibility." As well, many states have passed laws requiring that ALL public buildings also be accessible.

Should we do this in Canada? Right now it is voluntary...but if you walk around any city with an eye for accessibility, it's kind of shocking how many buildings would be almost impossible to get into with a wheelchair!

It's taking time for buildings to change here (although new ones are built to standard).

We've got the handicapped toilet stall, for instance. Very useful for normal people if you've got a big one to squeeze out, because there are massive hand rails on the sides of the stall so you can get some leverage.

I think it's a good idea - there are plenty of handicapped people who have major difficulty anyway.

IIRC, there are some limitations to the Act - I'm not sure, but I recall a lawsuit that was lost - a state government does not have to comply with the Act (IIRC, it was about a woman in a wheelchair who could not get into a court building) because it would cause them an economic hardship to refit all of their buildings.

it makes such a difference. i invited a wheelchair bound friend of mine to go with me ......somewhere..... he had to decline because there was no way he could get around in a place without mandatory wheelchair access.

i suppose it was expensive to refit sidewalks and building access but the inclusiveness of it is so important to those who cant walk without assistance. it also has the added benefit of being baby friendly. you can push a stroller just about anywhere you want these days.

The ADA has really helped my family, for example because my daughter's school gets government funds, they not only can't discriminate against her because of her celiac disease but they have to make reasonable accomodations. For example she doesn't have to have a hall pass for the bathroom, she can just go. She is allowed to bring in her own breakfast/snacks (other kids are not allowed) they are required actually to provide a gluten free diet for her but the diet is so hard to grasp and I am so worried about cross contamination that we just bring her food. They provide her with gluten free crayons and paints, and gloves for when they are playing with play dough. :)

I agree and I admire the US for that.

The ADA has really helped my family, for example because my daughter's school gets government funds, they not only can't discriminate against her because of her celiac disease but they have to make reasonable accomodations. For example she doesn't have to have a hall pass for the bathroom, she can just go. She is allowed to bring in her own breakfast/snacks (other kids are not allowed) they are required actually to provide a gluten free diet for her but the diet is so hard to grasp and I am so worried about cross contamination that we just bring her food. They provide her with gluten free crayons and paints, and gloves for when they are playing with play dough. :)
The school sounds like a good place
And I am very glad to hear that while you understand that the school would try to accommodate food considerations that you go that extra step to make sure she has food you are sure is good rather then just bitching about the schools inability to do so


I know it may seem like a small point I just find it a good example of people taking their time to help themselves (and their families) rather then relying on the school when it does not cause you too much hardship

I agree and I admire the US for that.
Yeah with all the bitching about the bad points its nice to have something to be proud of

The school sounds like a good place
And I am very glad to hear that while you understand that the school would try to accommodate food considerations that you go that extra step to make sure she has food you are sure is good rather then just bitching about the schools inability to do so


I know it may seem like a small point I just find it a good example of people taking their time to help themselves (and their families) rather then relying on the school when it does not cause you too much hardship
when I went into the meeting to tell them about her disease, I was fully prepared to make all the accomodations for her, I just wanted them to understand that if she rushed out of the room to run to the bathroom, that there is a reason, when you are sick you can't wait for a hall pass, and when you are 4 and sick you can't even wait to say where you are going. I was surprised that they have made so many accomodations, the teacher even sends home the lesson plans when there are questionable activities so I can check out if it is okay for Kathryn. (like they were glueing macaroni to paper) I brought Gluten free macaroni and gluten free glue, but when I got there she had already bought GF stuff for the whole class. I was so happy :D

Well, overall, I'm not entirely sure of that, but the US has the "Americans with Disabilities Act (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm)" which basically protects the disabled from varies forms of discrimination, though we have something similar in the Canadian Charter, but the Act also includes the Architectural Barrier Act (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/cguide.htm#anchor66055) which "requires that buildings and facilities that are designed, constructed, or altered with Federal funds, or leased by a Federal agency, comply with Federal standards for physical accessibility." As well, many states have passed laws requiring that ALL public buildings also be accessible.

Should we do this in Canada? Right now it is voluntary...but if you walk around any city with an eye for accessibility, it's kind of shocking how many buildings would be almost impossible to get into with a wheelchair!


Note that the barrier act in the US only applies to Federal buildings. Frankly, the Canadian Federal government already has similar in place for it's buildings, and there have also been many programs to help provate enterprises upgrade their accessibility.


Ontario recently passed it's new accessibility act (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/05a11_e.htm) as well which is pretty progrssive in that area. Many cities are also moving towards more accessibility requirements and buying into new rapid transit services that are also more accessible.

If this matters to you, lobby for it in your area. It's how things get done!

But we are hardly lagging our neighbours in this regard.

when I went into the meeting to tell them about her disease, I was fully prepared to make all the accomodations for her, I just wanted them to understand that if she rushed out of the room to run to the bathroom, that there is a reason, when you are sick you can't wait for a hall pass, and when you are 4 and sick you can't even wait to say where you are going. I was surprised that they have made so many accomodations, the teacher even sends home the lesson plans when there are questionable activities so I can check out if it is okay for Kathryn. (like they were glueing macaroni to paper) I brought Gluten free macaroni and gluten free glue, but when I got there she had already bought GF stuff for the whole class. I was so happy :D
Deffinatly sounds like a good school or at the least a good teacher

Yeah with all the bitching about the bad points its nice to have something to be proud of

You have to visit third world countries sometimes. The conditions that the disadvantaged live in countries like India is truly depressing.

I am hoping as economy increases, the state will spare resources and address this issue.

When I first saw the special walkways etc for the disabled in the US, it really brought tears to my eyes.

It's taking time for buildings to change here (although new ones are built to standard).

We've got the handicapped toilet stall, for instance. Very useful for normal people They're great for nursing to...in the regular ones, you end up banging the baby's head on the stall wall:(
I think it's a good idea - there are plenty of handicapped people who have major difficulty anyway.

IIRC, there are some limitations to the Act - I'm not sure, but I recall a lawsuit that was lost - a state government does not have to comply with the Act (IIRC, it was about a woman in a wheelchair who could not get into a court building) because it would cause them an economic hardship to refit all of their buildings. Yes, it can be very difficult with older buildings to refit them...I can see the limitations sticking there...and it makes sense. But new building should have the accessibility...and some of them don't bother. Kind of seems short-sighted on their part, but hey...

We've got the handicapped toilet stall, for instance. Very useful for normal people if you've got a big one to squeeze out, because there are massive hand rails on the sides of the stall so you can get some leverage.
I thought the US had had hat for some time, we've had it here since... Well, throughout my lifetime anyways. Silly me.

when I went into the meeting to tell them about her disease, I was fully prepared to make all the accomodations for her, I just wanted them to understand that if she rushed out of the room to run to the bathroom, that there is a reason, when you are sick you can't wait for a hall pass, and when you are 4 and sick you can't even wait to say where you are going. I was surprised that they have made so many accomodations, the teacher even sends home the lesson plans when there are questionable activities so I can check out if it is okay for Kathryn. (like they were glueing macaroni to paper) I brought Gluten free macaroni and gluten free glue, but when I got there she had already bought GF stuff for the whole class. I was so happy :D
Teachers are generally happy to make whatever accomodations are necessary, especially when the parents take the time to work with us to help us understand what accomodations are needed. When parents run in, demanding, and leaving with no explanaition, we still have to do it...but like anyone would, we feel a bit resentful. And who better than the parent to tell us what their child needs? If we are not familiar with the condition, TELL US! Don't just assume we'll have the time to become familiarized with it.

Abour 5000 families in Ontario took the ministry of education to court a couple of years ago in a huge class-action suit...get this, schools are required to meet the needs of students with disabilities, and the government is required to provide certain services as well, but the Ontario government took the loophole route and provided funding to institutions, not parents. Meaning, if you really wanted your kid to get help, you were best off giving up custody of your child over to an institution!!!!! The policy was changed, and funding went directly to schools and parents, but really...all the laws and consideration for disabled people are pretty shockingly recent.

Note that the barrier act in the US only applies to Federal buildings. Frankly, the Canadian Federal government already has similar in place for it's buildings, and there have also been many programs to help provate enterprises upgrade their accessibility.


Ontario recently passed it's new accessibility act (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/05a11_e.htm) as well which is pretty progrssive in that area. Many cities are also moving towards more accessibility requirements and buying into new rapid transit services that are also more accessible.

If this matters to you, lobby for it in your area. It's how things get done!

But we are hardly lagging our neighbours in this regard.
Hmmm...a Canadian lawyer mentioned some civil act in the US I wish I could remember the name of...and pointed out how yes, we ARE lagging behind despite the progress made so far. Yes, lobbying will make a difference, and I'm not saying it's a fundamental flaw or problem that has no remedy, but I was surprised to find that the US was so far ahead of us on this. I have to admit that I thought the US would be behind us on rights issues...I know it's not rational, but neither am I:)

We have a Handicap Ombudsman (http://www.ho.se/start.asp?sida=2544&lang=sv) for these sorts of issues. There are tonnes of accessibility, discrimination, right to subsidy &c. laws and they tend to be very quick to make sure people stick to them.

Teachers are generally happy to make whatever accomodations are necessary, especially when the parents take the time to work with us to help us understand what accomodations are needed. When parents run in, demanding, and leaving with no explanaition, we still have to do it...but like anyone would, we feel a bit resentful. And who better than the parent to tell us what their child needs? If we are not familiar with the condition, TELL US! Don't just assume we'll have the time to become familiarized with it.
I have found that most people (church nursery, the school, even restraunts) are willing to accomodate my girls as long as they percieve that I am there to help. I have a book that I made about celiac disease that is pretty short (about 15 pages long) that I make copies of and give to whoever wants more information, it includes my phone # my cell # and my email address so they can reach me with any questions. I also have an email that I can send out that has an attachment that is about 200 pages long with name brand stuff that they can use and eat, my husband is currently making it into a searchable data base so I can put it on CD for people and I help the support group send out an email newsletter every 3 months with updates. I think sometimes I have too much information available for them. ;)

We have a Handicap Ombudsman (http://www.ho.se/start.asp?sida=2544&lang=sv) for these sorts of issues. There are tonnes of accessibility, discrimination, right to subsidy &c. laws and they tend to be very quick to make sure people stick to them.
Yeah, we like ombudsmen in Sweden. We've got lots of them.

Yeah, we like ombudsmen in Sweden. We've got lots of them.

Seeing as it's our invention, that's not so strange. :)

I have found that most people (church nursery, the school, even restraunts) are willing to accomodate my girls as long as they percieve that I am there to help. I have a book that I made about celiac disease that is pretty short (about 15 pages long) that I make copies of and give to whoever wants more information, it includes my phone # my cell # and my email address so they can reach me with any questions. I also have an email that I can send out that has an attachment that is about 200 pages long with name brand stuff that they can use and eat, my husband is currently making it into a searchable data base so I can put it on CD for people and I help the support group send out an email newsletter every 3 months with updates. I think sometimes I have too much information available for them. ;)
Better too much than too little! That's just awesome!

Hmmm...a Canadian lawyer mentioned some civil act in the US I wish I could remember the name of...and pointed out how yes, we ARE lagging behind despite the progress made so far. Yes, lobbying will make a difference, and I'm not saying it's a fundamental flaw or problem that has no remedy, but I was surprised to find that the US was so far ahead of us on this. I have to admit that I thought the US would be behind us on rights issues...I know it's not rational, but neither am I:)


Hmmm, well it is rather hard to argue a point that you heard about, and it is indeed possible that the US has a law or two that address some specific instance that we haven't yet. The converse is equally likely. However let me just point out the following:

In both countries, all Federal buildings are mandated as being required to be fully accessible.

In both countries I believe that all states and provinces have adopted similar rules for government buildings at the state/province and municipal level.

In both countries new construction guidelines for public buildings include strict regulations for accessibility.

All that remains, it seems, is the level of laws regarding retrofitting existing private-domain public spaces (i.e. retail businesses, apartment buildings, etc), and - as mentioned - Ontario has passed laws which will start to address this as well.

So I think it is fair to say that we are moving towards universally accessibility of all public places at a fairly similar rate.

Although, given that Canada is references as a leader quite often at various US ADA advocacy websites, I think it is fair to say that they respect our work in this area.

Cases in point: canada standardizing on disabled-friendly pedestrian traffic signals (http://www.access-board.gov/prowac/guide/sidebarp90.htm) before the US (California only also has similar)

Canda using public funds to develop concrete that stays ice-free to use for accessibility purposes (http://www.access-board.gov/prowac/guide/sidebarp50.htm)

The list goes on...

The Canadian Council on Disabilities also looked into the ADA when it was passed to examin it's possible applicability in Canada, and noted that (http://www.ccdonline.ca/law-reform/analysis/cda.htm) "that Canada, unlike the United States, already had comprehensive barrier-removal legislation, suggesting emphasis should be placed on access to justice and effective enforcement rather than on the enactment of new legislation;"


So, once again, I am not sure why you think Canada is lagging, although I think that it is fair to say that BOTH countries still have work to do in this area.

Hmmm, well it is rather hard to argue a point that you heard about, and it is indeed possible that the US has a law or two that address some specific instance that we haven't yet. The converse is equally likely.

So, once again, I am not sure why you think Canada is lagging, although I think that it is fair to say that BOTH countries still have work to do in this area.
Yeah, I can't back this up much at this point:) If I do find the specific information that was conveyed to me (perhaps erroneously, I don't consider anecdotal evidence to be particular compelling, don't worry), I'll pass it on:)

Am I talking out of my arse? Well, unless I can prove otherwise, I'll accept that I just may be:)

Yeah, I can't back this up much at this point:) If I do find the specific information that was conveyed to me (perhaps erroneously, I don't consider anecdotal evidence to be particular compelling, don't worry), I'll pass it on:)

Am I talking out of my arse? Well, unless I can prove otherwise, I'll accept that I just may be:)


No, you raise a good point regarding this being an issue that both countries still have work to do on. I'm sure we have our failings compared to their legislation at various governmental levels. I'm sure they have have theirs compared to ours.

Whether one is substantially lagging the other in overall terms though I think is impossible to say.

No, you raise a good point regarding this being an issue that both countries still have work to do on. I'm sure we have our failings compared to their legislation at various governmental levels. I'm sure they have have theirs compared to ours.

Whether one is substantially lagging the other in overall terms though I think is impossible to say.
Yeah at least we can say they are both making strides in the right direction and actualy making a difference

The Spanish Constitution forbids any kind of discrimination, including discrimination to handicapped persons.

There's also a 50 years old foundation called ONCE, which began as Public Help for blind people, and now has development projects for people with any kind of disability, schools for children... and infludence on the government.

If any initiative comes with the ONCE seal, it has 90% possibilities of pass.

Better too much than too little! That's just awesome!
I couldn't stand the thought of my kids suffering if I didn't live up to my responsibility of educating others about thier disease.