NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/04/france.riots/index.html

I didnt see five other topics on this as I thought I would, so I figured I would get in on the action ;)

Apparently somebody in the Paris police force screwed up, killed two kids, and triggered the French Revolution of '05.
And now the riots are spreading outside of Paris, apparently uncontrolled by any stretch of the mind.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452397

There was already a thread on the subject on the front page as you posted this, and there are several in the subsequent pages.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452397

There was already a thread on the subject on the front page as you posted this, and there are several in the subsequent pages.

You forgot to mention that it's not "burning" - it's Paris Brulee.

You forgot to mention that it's not "burning" - it's Paris Brulee.

No, actually it's "Paris brûle" for "Paris burns/is burning." For it to be a question, it should be "Paris brûle-t-il?". Your phrase would be grammatically incorrect as "brûlée" is feminine and Paris is masculine. "Paris brûlé" would be grammatically correct, but it would still not mean "Paris burning?", but "burnt Paris" instead.

I was trying for "burnt Paris", as the burning has already been done.

Still, I'm wondering if there's that excellent custard underneath...

My, but it will be interesting to see how this turns out...

My, but it will be interesting to see how this turns out...

Unless I miss my guess, de Villepin will call out the military, and there will be beatings, water cannon, and a few shootings by soldiers.

Not that such action will solve the actual problem, but it will quiet things down to a simmering boil.

I think that France, with such a large population of immigrants, needs to figure out how to integrate them into their society. Not assimilate - but blend.

Here in the Washington, D.C. area, I believe that immigrants have a much easier time blending into US life (my father was an immigrant, and he integrated rather well). But that may be because with the exception of the original natives, everyone here has ancestors who were thrown out of every decent country in the world.

I don't believe for a second that the socialists (if they replace the current government) would do much better - because the lesson of our Civil Rights legislation in the US is that you can't legislate morality. Teaching people not to discriminate against each other can't be forced - they have to get used to each other over time.

*Points and laughts manically*

Muahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahaah... Gentlemen, the frogs are as we speak burning themselves into chaos and eventually oblivion. Everything is going perfectly according to my plan. Muahahahahahahahahahhahaha... Muahahahahahahahaa Bwuahhhhahahahaahahahahahaahhahaha......


Muaahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahah hahahaaa ahahahahahhahahahahahahahha...

-snip-

The difference in France is their is no such thing as multiculturalism. Foreigners are welcome, as are immigrants- obey the law and you will be fine.

The only thing that is required- is that you become French. You adopt the culture and thats that. If not, you are free to leave. Apart from that- it is Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité.

The problem seems not to be immigrants and their children rising against this... but they want to be properly recognised as French! Like the rest of the pop.

This morning CNN was saying that one of the big issues for the rioters was the unemployment. If so, France is fucked. Their economy just doesn't produce enough jobs for everyone. Maybe the immigrants can get hired to rebuild all the crap they destroyed.

This morning CNN was saying that one of the big issues for the rioters was the unemployment. If so, France is fucked. Their economy just doesn't produce enough jobs for everyone.

Kinda. But its not really that. You've got kids who have no proper qualifications, and in those 'ghetto' areas, the unemployment is near 50%. Who's gonna employ a kid from a ghetto with no education or qualification?

Its a circle, but I certainly wouldn't say 'France is fucked'.

I would have been much more worried back in '68.

Kinda. But its not really that. You've got kids who have no proper qualifications, and in those 'ghetto' areas, the unemployment is near 50%. Who's gonna employ a kid from a ghetto with no education or qualification?

Its a circle, but I certainly wouldn't say 'France is fucked'.

I would have been much more worried back in '68.
How do these teenagers have no education? France has a public school system, why aren't these kids forced to attend?

why aren't these kids forced to attend?

Because....Since 1967, school attendance has been compulsory from ages 6 to 16.

After 16 you can leave, sadly a lot do. :(

Because....

After 16 you can leave, sadly a lot do. :(
Well then their unemployment is their own fault. Maybe the French government should call in the military, capture all the rioters, and give them a job making license plates for the next 15-20 years.

Well then their unemployment is their own fault. Maybe the French government should call in the military, capture all the rioters, and give them a job making license plates for the next 15-20 years.

I have a better idea. Put them in the French Foreign Legion.
They will either become responsible soldiers, or they will die trying.

I have a better idea. Put them in the French Foreign Legion.
They will either become responsible soldiers, or they will die trying.

No French are allowed in the Legion :p

Well then their unemployment is their own fault. Maybe the French government should call in the military, capture all the rioters, and give them a job making license plates for the next 15-20 years.

Not really. Thats like saying all US unemployment is their own fault. Some is I agree- but a lot is tied into economics and international trade blah blah the usual. Capitalist states- companies and therefore employment moves to where its more profitable. Outsourcing, surely you Yanks know all about that... ;)

No French are allowed in the Legion :p
Well part of the problem seems to be that these immigrants are French citizens, but the native French don't view them as such. This would put it all to rest. Employment, certified French citizens...

Not really. Thats like saying all US unemployment is their own fault. Some is I agree- but a lot is tied into economics and international trade blah blah the usual. Capitalist states- companies and therefore employment moves to where its more profitable. Outsourcing, surely you Yanks know all about that... ;)
Personally I think if you refuse free education that will help you be more successfull in life you're responsible for the consequences. If you become violent because the opportunities presented to those who did take the time to get educated aren't presented to you, you need to be removed from society.

How does one feel sympathy for those who refuse free assistance to better themselves and prefer to wallow in ignorance and self-pity?

Personally I think if you refuse free education that will help you be more successfull in life you're responsible for the consequences. If you become violent because the opportunities presented to those who did take the time to get educated aren't presented to you, you need to be removed from society.

How does one feel sympathy for those who refuse free assistance to better themselves and prefer to wallow in ignorance and self-pity?

I agree. Therefore I would shoulder blame on the individuals themselves rather then merely the generic term 'France'.

Well part of the problem seems to be that these immigrants are French citizens, but the native French don't view them as such. This would put it all to rest. Employment, certified French citizens...

Yeah, I think they view themselves as second class.... because they perceive the French-born French as viewing them as second class citizens!

Then again, I don't know whether there is natural xenophobia in some institutions preventing class mobility. Perhaps if there are any French NSers on here they could fill in the details- the rest would just be speculation on my part.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5391756,00.html
Paris-Area Riots Gain Dangerous Momentum


Friday November 4, 2005 3:46 AM

AP Photo BRI108

By JAMEY KEATEN

Associated Press Writer

AULNAY-SOUS-BOIS, France (AP) - A week of riots in poor neighborhoods outside Paris gained dangerous new momentum Thursday, with youths shooting at police and firefighters and attacking trains and symbols of the French state.

Facing mounting criticism, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin vowed to restore order as the violence that erupted Oct. 27 spread to at least 20 towns, highlighting the frustration simmering in housing projects that are home to many North African immigrants.

Unrest flared for an eighth straight night Thursday, though scaled down from previous says. Young men fire buckshot at riot police vehicles in Neuilly-sur-Marne, while a group of 30 to 40 harassed police near a synagogue further east in Stains, said the top official of Seine-Saint-Denis, Prefect Jean-Francois Cordet.

A special Interior Ministry operations center monitoring the violence said some 60 vehicles torched in the Seine-Saint-Denis region by early Friday and a total of 165 throughout the Paris metropolitan area. Some 40 vehicles were torched in the Val d'Oise area northwest of Paris.

The sporadic incidents were less intense that the ferocious rioting that erupted eight days ago in Clichy-sous-Bois and spread across the troubled area of housing projects marked by soaring unemployment, delinquency and a sense of despair.
..
The violence also has cast doubt on the success of France's model of seeking to integrate its immigrant community - its Muslim population, at an estimated 5 million, is Western Europe's largest - by playing down differences between ethnic groups. Rather than feeling embraced as full and equal citizens, immigrants and their French-born children often complain of police harassment and of being refused jobs, housing and opportunities.

``It is very tough when you are stuck midway between France and Algeria or Morocco,'' said Sonia Imloul, who works with troubled teens in Seine-Saint-Denis and was born in France of Algerian parents. She added: ``Perhaps we should be told clearly to stop having children, because they have an 80 percent chance of not succeeding.''

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13457760,00.html
Disabled Woman Set Ablaze
Updated: 12:36, Friday November 04, 2005

A handicapped woman was doused with petrol and set on fire by youths during another night of rioting in Paris.

The 56-year-old suffered third degree burns to 20% of her body in the attack.

Witnesses said a youth poured petrol over the woman and then threw a Molotov cocktail on to the bus she was travelling on in the suburb of Sevran.

Other passengers were able to flee but she was unable to escape because of her disabilities.

It was the worst incident so far in more than a week of rioting.

For the first time, there were also signs of copycat rampages elsewhere in France.

Police said several cars in the eastern city of Dijon were set alight, while similar attacks took place in the western Seine-Maritime region and the Bouches-du-Rhone in the south of the country.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13457760,00.html
Reminds me of the burning rampages in India not so long ago (was it buses or trains or both?)

Disabled Woman Set Ablaze
Updated: 12:36, Friday November 04, 2005

A handicapped woman was doused with petrol and set on fire by youths during another night of rioting in Paris.

The 56-year-old suffered third degree burns to 20% of her body in the attack.

Witnesses said a youth poured petrol over the woman and then threw a Molotov cocktail on to the bus she was travelling on in the suburb of Sevran.

Other passengers were able to flee but she was unable to escape because of her disabilities.

It was the worst incident so far in more than a week of rioting.

For the first time, there were also signs of copycat rampages elsewhere in France.

Police said several cars in the eastern city of Dijon were set alight, while similar attacks took place in the western Seine-Maritime region and the Bouches-du-Rhone in the south of the country.

Well isn't that special.

Well then their unemployment is their own fault.

Negative, man; I don't see a 16 years old guy capable of choose his future in any acceptable way.

Negative, man; I don't see a 16 years old guy capable of choose his future in any acceptable way.

I don't see why not, unless you've made a habit of doing his thinking for him every step of the way. Or telling him that, "when you're 21, the government will tell you what to do, so just sit tight".

Negative, man; I don't see a 16 years old guy capable of choose his future in any acceptable way.
I personally only know one guy who dropped out of high school, and he went back for his GED. Many of the people I know grew up in the ghetto, yet they managed to get through high school. I'm not sure what French suburbs are like, but unless growing up there is worse than growing up on Passaic and Spring streets in Trenton, NJ, surrounded by crack and guns they don't have an excuse.

Negative, man; I don't see a 16 years old guy capable of choose his future in any acceptable way.

Why not?