NationStates Jolt Archive

If you were looking for terrorists at a football game, wouldn't the sight of five middle-eastern looking men standing around an air vent look suspicious? I think so and so did the stadium security guards (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/11/03/muslims_held_during_giants_game_allege_bias/)at a NY Giants game.

Of course the guys that were questioned are upset, but this is exactly the behavior that security forces should be looking for.


Five Muslim football fans were detained and questioned during a game at Giants Stadium because they were congregating near an air duct on a night former President George H.W. Bush was in the stadium, the FBI said yesterday.

Yeah, police should not be forced to ignore suspicous activity just because some PC pinhead will call it profiling.

They can be upset- I wouldnt be particularly happy about it either.
They were checked out and released-and even offered better seats than they already had afterwards.

The security did their job and shouldnt be second guessed.

We have to get used to more scrutiny in these public places, especially if our behavior brings attention to ourselves.

I heard that the suspicious part was that they were prostrating themselves in prayer.

On one hand, I'm used to seeing this - it happens five times a day - and if it happened during a game, a devout person would take a break to pray.

When you're at Dulles Airport at dawn, you'll see the cab drivers do this all at once (and four more times that day). It scares people who are unaware of the practice.

While congregating around an air duct may be suspicious, I don't think that the praying is "exactly" what people should be looking for. Lots of people pray.

In the instructions for the hijackers of 911, they wrote that they should offer silent prayers. So I don't think the bad guys are going to pray in a noticeable manner before doing something.

I heard that the suspicious part was that they were prostrating themselves in prayer.

On one hand, I'm used to seeing this - it happens five times a day - and if it happened during a game, a devout person would take a break to pray.

When you're at Dulles Airport at dawn, you'll see the cab drivers do this all at once (and four more times that day). It scares people who are unaware of the practice.

While congregating around an air duct may be suspicious, I don't think that the praying is "exactly" what people should be looking for. Lots of people pray.

In the instructions for the hijackers of 911, they wrote that they should offer silent prayers. So I don't think the bad guys are going to pray in a noticeable manner before doing something.

Thats what I heard as well. And I refer to this as behaviour that attracts attention. I dont mock or comdem it, but this is not a predominantly Islamic nation at this point, so its certainly out of the ordinary.
The type of praying they do does attract attention and still does make a majority of people here nervous and suspicious. Its worth checking out in a professional, respectful manner.

I have a friend in the airforce who smoked a camel cigarette from the wrong end, and stepped on the butt when finished. Unfortunately, the butt had the crescent symbol on it and his action was seen as a deliberate offense to some nearby. He was badly beaten by many people.

The men in Giant Stadium faired much better in a civil and hopefully vigilant, society.

I guess I'm used to seeing them pray, then.

I guess I'm used to seeing them pray, then.


Maybe. Just please dont mistake my opinion as being bigoted. Thats certainly not the case.

Maybe. Just please dont mistake my opinion as being bigoted. Thats certainly not the case.
I understand that. I can understand how people not used to it could get upset.

People who arrive on the redeye at Dulles get fearful when they see fifty cab drivers get out in unison and pray on little rugs.

I understand that. I can understand how people not used to it could get upset.

People who arrive on the redeye at Dulles get fearful when they see fifty cab drivers get out in unison and pray on little rugs.

And right now, thats a fairly reasonable reaction.

I understand the reaction to Muslim prayer, but that is not the case. When I pray in public - whether I'm near an air vent, in an airport, or even next to a very large building - nobody ever bothers with me.

The difference: I'm white.

Of course ... white people could never be terrorists ... right?

I believe such policy does single out Arab "looking" men. I've prayed in groups of 3-6 white Muslims in public without so much as a second glance. I bet if I were to find some way to make myself look Arab and did the same thing, there'd be all sorts of harassment.

Anyone ever read "Black Like Me"? Maybe I should do "Arab Like Me" and see what happens.

I understand the reaction to Muslim prayer, but that is not the case. When I pray in public - whether I'm near an air vent, in an airport, or even next to a very large building - nobody ever bothers with me.

The difference: I'm white.

Of course ... white people could never be terrorists ... right?

I believe such policy does single out Arab "looking" men. I've prayed in groups of 3-6 white Muslims in public without so much as a second glance. I bet if I were to find some way to make myself look Arab and did the same thing, there'd be all sorts of harassment.

Anyone ever read "Black Like Me"? Maybe I should do "Arab Like Me" and see what happens.
The thing about profiling is that the proper description of the vast majority of terrorists in the world is 'Young Middle-eastern looking Male". That doesn't mean the grandma and grandpa aren't capable of terrorst acts, just that they aren't likely to commit them.

The security guards were absolutely right. The five men were fools to think that their activities at that time in that place wouldn't make them seem suspicious. Is that an unhappy reality? Welcome to the time we live in. Maybe they were racially profiled, but if I were a guard and the President was in town (even though I hate him), I would stop anyone, of any race, who was hanging about in an odd location. At least they didn't end up like that Brazilian guy in London. They have nothing to complain about.

Those damned Jihadists were praying for Allah to blow up the infidels and their decadent game of Unclean-Pig-Hide-Ball and we all know it.

Then again it just means five Junior McVeighs get to slip by unnoticed and blow shit up while the guards look at the Muslims and go "Ooo... terrorist!"

:rolleyes:

Those damned Jihadists were praying for Allah to blow up the infidels and their decadent game of Unclean-Pig-Hide-Ball and we all know it.

Then again it just means five Junior McVeighs get to slip by unnoticed and blow shit up while the guards look at the Muslims and go "Ooo... terrorist!"

:rolleyes:

If you figure that 90 percent of current "terrorist" acts are performed by people who could well be characterized as "young Middle Eastern males", it's not a stupid idea to profile based on appearance.

McVeigh and the movements he represented have gone into serious decline, and are no longer as large a concern to the Federal government as groups like the Animal Liberation Front (who generally don't attack stadiums, but prefer labs and chicken farms), and the rest comes under the heading of "generic Islamic terrorist".

If you were looking for terrorists at a football game, wouldn't the sight of five middle-eastern looking men standing around an air vent look suspicious? I think so and so did the stadium security guards (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/11/03/muslims_held_during_giants_game_allege_bias/)at a NY Giants game.

Of course the guys that were questioned are upset, but this is exactly the behavior that security forces should be looking for.
No, that's as lame as all get-out. Imagine the uproar if the FBI had detained five black dudes under similar circumstances back when Bobby Seale & the Black Panthers were in their heyday.

Racial profiling is the first step towards South African-style Apartheid.

No, that's as lame as all get-out. Imagine the uproar if the FBI had detained five black dudes under similar circumstances back when Bobby Seale & the Black Panthers were in their heyday.

Racial profiling is the first step towards South African-style Apartheid.

Slippery slope argument - can't say that.

My only real issue with this is:

Don't pretend it WASN'T profiling based on ethnicity. Admit to it, and move on. It's a racist practice clearly the administration considers to be 'worth it', but it is racist nonetheless.

Well...that and my husband tends to look Arabic when he doesn't shave for a day, and we are a bit paranoid about flying through the US to get to Chile.

Slippery slope argument - can't say that.
Fine then. Forget the last sentence. It's still lame-o.

Well...that and my husband tends to look Arabic when he doesn't shave for a day, and we are a bit paranoid about flying through the US to get to Chile.
I get Jews thinking I'm an Arab, Arabs thinking I'm a Jew, and everyone else assuming I'm from somewhere in the vicinity of the Mediterranean, even though I'm mostly of Scots ancestry, with some Miq'Maq thrown in for giggles.

I'll tell you, I'm completely disinclined to travel in the US or the Middle East. It's just not worth the potential hassles.

If you figure that 90 percent of current "terrorist" acts are performed by people who could well be characterized as "young Middle Eastern males", it's not a stupid idea to profile based on appearance.

McVeigh and the movements he represented have gone into serious decline, and are no longer as large a concern to the Federal government as groups like the Animal Liberation Front (who generally don't attack stadiums, but prefer labs and chicken farms), and the rest comes under the heading of "generic Islamic terrorist".

Now would this be current acts overall, or just the ones publicized? After all the government had no interest whatsoever in cracking down on ALF or ELF members when they could go after "Muslim Terrorists" and play upon Islamaphobia to continue justifying current Middle East policies.

Now would this be current acts overall, or just the ones publicized? After all the government had no interest whatsoever in cracking down on ALF or ELF members when they could go after "Muslim Terrorists" and play upon Islamaphobia to continue justifying current Middle East policies.

Current acts overall - covering all international incidents.

It's been that way for nearly 10 years now.

No, that's as lame as all get-out. Imagine the uproar if the FBI had detained five black dudes under similar circumstances back when Bobby Seale & the Black Panthers were in their heyday.

Racial profiling is the first step towards South African-style Apartheid.
Not being the right color, I can't speak with authority, but I believe that police will still "profile" blacks in a lot of areas.

My only real issue with this is:

Don't pretend it WASN'T profiling based on ethnicity. Admit to it, and move on. It's a racist practice clearly the administration considers to be 'worth it', but it is racist nonetheless.

Well...that and my husband tends to look Arabic when he doesn't shave for a day, and we are a bit paranoid about flying through the US to get to Chile.
Put on a turban and wear a burhka. That's the surest way NOT to be searched in US airports. If you're eighty and in a wheelchair, your 10 times more likely to be subjected to a random, PC search.

Not being the right color, I can't speak with authority, but I believe that police will still "profile" blacks in a lot of areas.
And that's totally lame. See it through the eyes of a black man - is that so hard to do?

No, that's as lame as all get-out. Imagine the uproar if the FBI had detained five black dudes under similar circumstances back when Bobby Seale & the Black Panthers were in their heyday.

Racial profiling is the first step towards South African-style Apartheid.
So because it would have pissed of black people, it would have been wrong? It pisses me off that people bitch about profiling, so I guess bitching about profiling is wrong!

Put on a turban and wear a burhka. That's the surest way NOT to be searched in US airports. If you're eighty and in a wheelchair, your 10 times more likely to be subjected to a random, PC search.

Some airlines have a strict policy NOT to search or ask questions of anyone who appears to be Middle Eastern. I remember Northwest doing that in particular.

So because it would have pissed of black people, it would have been wrong?
No, because it's wrong, because it's the wrong thing to do, it would have pissed off lots of people, and not just blacks, either. And this instance ought to piss a lot of people off as well. One wonders why it doesn't seem to. Presumably because for those whom racial profiling doesn't matter, there is also a distinct lack of empathy for people other than themselves, or other than their race/ethnicity/tribe.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Or is that too much to ask in these heady days of fear-inspired xenophobia?

And that's totally lame. See it through the eyes of a black man - is that so hard to do?
I can see it through the eyes of a black man, and yeah, it would thoroughly piss me off. Now please ask the muslims to see it through the eyes of an American who sees nothing but "death to America" and "kill the infidels" every time he see's 100k large protests in the middle east. Or please ask the black man to see it through the eys of a white man who oddly enough only gets his car broken into or only gets mugged in certain neihborhoods

The door swings both ways.

Now everybody get out your race card, and call me a rascist.

Some airlines have a strict policy NOT to search or ask questions of anyone who appears to be Middle Eastern. I remember Northwest doing that in particular.
I thought it was a Norm Mineta dictate -- Don't bother people who look like terrorists.

I thought it was a Norm Mineta dictate -- Don't bother people who look like terrorists.
I remember the Federal rule - and the airlines and airports have apparently taken it upon themselves not to question them either.

Apparently, what Northwest was afraid of was if they actually questioned a man of Middle Eastern appearance, even at random, he would sue them for profiling.

My only real issue with this is:

Don't pretend it WASN'T profiling based on ethnicity. Admit to it, and move on. It's a racist practice clearly the administration considers to be 'worth it', but it is racist nonetheless.

Well...that and my husband tends to look Arabic when he doesn't shave for a day, and we are a bit paranoid about flying through the US to get to Chile.
Racial profiling is rife in the US, and it is a racist practice. This applies when persons of a particular race are more likely to be subjected to scrutiny or detainment without probable cause or without an legitimate context. So, when cops, just in general, are more likely to pull over a black man driving an expensive car than a white man on the assumption he probably stole it, that's racial profiling. That kind of thing happens every day all over the US. You'll get no argument from me on that. On the other hand, if part of the description of suspects includes race, then using race to identify suspects is not unreasonable. This does not excuse an "all Arabs are terrorists" attitude, but, let's be honest, as Arab communities often fail to decry terrorism, but instead often laud terrorists like they're rap stars, they may have no one to blame for this but themselves.

But in this case, the behavior of the men WAS suspicious and would have been suspicious even if they were five drunk blond white frat brothers painted with the Giants colors. They were in the wrong area at the wrong time. Security was right to nab them. They got their asses kissed to make up for it later.

Remember, this is coming from someone who thinks of the Homeland Security Department as the offspring of the Gestapo mated with the Keystone Kops.

Now please ask the muslims to see it through the eyes of an American who sees nothing but "death to America" and "kill the infidels" every time he see's 100k large protests in the middle east.
Except these guys weren't screaming "death to America" or "kill the infidels", and they weren't in the Middle East.

So try seeing it through the eyes of your fellow Americans, who are being hassled for no reason other than that they're not of a particular racial heritage. How about that?

No, because it's wrong, because it's the wrong thing to do, it would have pissed off lots of people, and not just blacks, either. And this instance ought to piss a lot of people off as well. One wonders why it doesn't seem to. Presumably because for those whom racial profiling doesn't matter, there is also a distinct lack of empathy for people other than themselves, or other than their race/ethnicity/tribe.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Or is that too much to ask in these heady days of fear-inspired xenophobia?
No, it's too much to ask when the communities of whoever is getting profiled doesn't step up and take responsibility for their actions. But that would be asking too much, huh?

No, it's too much to ask when the communities of whoever is getting profiled doesn't step up and take responsibility for their actions. But that would be asking too much, huh?
What, taking responsibility for going to a sporting event?

I get Jews thinking I'm an Arab, Arabs thinking I'm a Jew, and everyone else assuming I'm from somewhere in the vicinity of the Mediterranean, even though I'm mostly of Scots ancestry, with some Miq'Maq thrown in for giggles.

I'll tell you, I'm completely disinclined to travel in the US or the Middle East. It's just not worth the potential hassles.
As a dark-complexioned mostly-Italian, I tell you, it doesn't pay to be swarthy in today's world. The wrong groups are always either rejecting us or claiming us.

As a dark-complexioned mostly-Italian, I tell you, it doesn't pay to be swarthy in today's world. The wrong groups are always either rejecting us or claiming us.
Yes, swarthiness is now grounds for justifiable harassment at the hands of the paranoiac & the melanin-challenged. Of course, it has nothing to do with racism... :rolleyes:

Yes, swarthiness is now grounds for justifiable harassment at the hands of the paranoiac & the melanin-challenged. Of course, it has nothing to do with racism... :rolleyes:
The only thing that saves me is that my aggressive New York bitchiness wards them off when they see me coming. It's funny how many times I get first the look and then the wave-through. (Only 20% likely to blow something up, but 98% likely to be a major pain in their ass and a possible lawsuit to boot.) ;)

The only thing that saves me is that my aggressive New York bitchiness wards them off when they see me coming. It's funny how many times I get first the look and then the wave-through. (Only 20% likely to blow something up, but 98% likely to be a major pain in their ass and a possible lawsuit to boot.) ;)
I boost the gain on my Canadian accent while in transit internationally.

Except these guys weren't screaming "death to America" or "kill the infidels", and they weren't in the Middle East.

So try seeing it through the eyes of your fellow Americans, who are being hassled for no reason other than that they're not of a particular racial heritage. How about that?


By the time they are screaming that, its already too late.

People that have no guts will never understand a professional making a "gut decision", so, we dont take their criticism too seriously.
How about that?

By the time they are screaming that, its already too late.

People that have no guts will never understand a professional making a "gut decision", so, we dont take their criticism too seriously.
How about that?
I say it takes guts to live your life as though there aren't terrorists hiding under every cookie jar out there. I say the overweening tendency to all be junior hall-monitors masks a greater issue of unofficially-sanctioned bigotry and racial intolerance that is frankly loathesome to see in the 21st century.

I've got a better idea: Why don't white Christian Americans stay securely locked in their homes where they can watch the big game on a wide-screen monitor? That way it'll make it easier to catch the terrorists, who'll all congregate at the stadium. Hell, just arrest everybody who turns up for the game, to be on the safe side.

After all, only terrorists would want to assemble in public places, right? Fits the profile, anyway. Close enough for jazz. Lock 'em up!

I say it takes guts to live your life as though there aren't terrorists hiding under every cookie jar out there. I say the overweening tendency to all be junior hall-monitors masks a greater issue of unofficially-sanctioned bigotry and racial intolerance that is frankly loathesome to see in the 21st century.

I've got a better idea: Why don't white Christian Americans stay securely locked in their homes where they can watch the big game on a wide-screen monitor? That way it'll make it easier to catch the terrorists, who'll all congregate at the stadium. Hell, just arrest everybody who turns up for the game, to be on the safe side.



Because we're still the majority. And besides, the whole place would then be reduced to a stinking shithole in no time. When we're no longer the majority, the rest can plunge it into the reeking cesspool they always wanted it to be.

Thats a long way off, I'm sorry to say.

I wasnt expecting such a silly response. But I'll take it.
Its good to see you in a good mood.

What, taking responsibility for going to a sporting event?
I can't speak of those guys, because I don't know them. But if they want to be mad at somebody, they should be mad at the government of nations such as Iran, and Syria, and at Al-Zarquai, and Bin Laden, and Al sadr. Not at people who are trying to make sure somebody doesn't blow us or our president up.

I say it takes guts to live your life as though there aren't terrorists hiding under every cookie jar out there. I say the overweening tendency to all be junior hall-monitors masks a greater issue of unofficially-sanctioned bigotry and racial intolerance that is frankly loathesome to see in the 21st century.

I've got a better idea: Why don't white Christian Americans stay securely locked in their homes where they can watch the big game on a wide-screen monitor? That way it'll make it easier to catch the terrorists, who'll all congregate at the stadium. Hell, just arrest everybody who turns up for the game, to be on the safe side.

First bolded text- Thats funny, everyone I know would call that either

1)Cowardice, as in being to afraid to confront the enemy, hoping they'll blow someone else up

2)Stupidity, as in thinking you'll be safe if you just close your eyes and keep repeating "I'm not scared"

3)Naivety, as in not comprehending how dangerous this world can be.

Second bolded text- And your inferring that I"M a bigot?

http://static.flickr.com/26/59153397_d56f2cbc85_o.jpg

Second bolded text-[/B] And your inferring that I"M a bigot?
My, my aren't we feeling sensitive today? That post wasn't directed at you, so why are you responding as though it was?

And why are you seizing upon a bit of sarcastic humour and wielding it like a cudgel over my skull, anyway?

My, my aren't we feeling sensitive today? That post wasn't directed at you, so why are you responding as though it was?

And why are you seizing upon a bit of sarcastic humour and wielding it like a cudgel over my skull, anyway?
It wasn't that it was directed at me personally, but since I believe in racial profiling, you might as well just call me a bigot personally, and save us the headache of trying to sort it out.

Why the sarcastic humor? I didn't know how to get a real cudgel throught the net.:D

Let me preface my long-delayed response by mentioning I had to excuse myself from these forums in order to make, serve and eat dinner. My apologies in advance. Oh, that - and I had a bitch of a time getting back onto the forums just now.

- Dobbs.

Why the sarcastic humor? I didn't know how to get a real cudgel throught the net.:D
No no, you've misunderstood my last question for you. I'd asked why you'd seized upon a bit of my own sarcastic humour (i.e. the quoted question, "Why don't white Christian Americans stay securely locked in their homes where they can watch the big game on a wide-screen monitor?" and why you were trying to use my sarcastic question against me (by implying that I am <supposedly?> using some sort of racial profiling myself).

Anyway, as for the three labels (cowardice, stupidity & naiveté) you've chosen to apply to my assertion that, "I say it takes guts to live your life as though there aren't terrorists hiding under every cookie jar out there", I'll choose to disagree, and offer my own thoughts, as well as discussing the ideas that you've already advanced:

"I say it takes guts to live your life as though there aren't terrorists[/B] hiding under every cookie jar out there."

Thats funny, everyone I know would call [B]that either:

1)Cowardice, as in being to afraid to confront the enemy, hoping they'll blow someone else up.

- I would choose instead to see this as an act of innate bravery, that the act of carrying on, status quo, all situations normal in light of the potential for personal, local, regional or national harm due to unforeseen acts is a small but frankly very brave act.

As for it being 'cowardice', as per your assertion, in what way were these people at the ball game any 'enemy', and why are you hoping they'll blow someone up?

2)Stupidity, as in thinking you'll be safe if you just close your eyes and keep repeating "I'm not scared"

- I'd further characterize my statement as being coldly calculated and well-considered, if somewhat Devil-may-care. As in, knowing full well I'm safe 'til I'm not, come what may in this crazy-ass continuum. Yup. The roof above my head might collapse under the impact of a chunk of blue ice mistakenly dropped from a passing airliner turning me into a fine paté in the process. Any moment now. So might any number of other mishaps, accidents or other brushes with Death, in every waking (and sleeping) moment of every single day. What of that? To quote Iggy Pop, "Gimme Danger". Anything less and you might as well make your next address the family plot.

As to your second pronouncement upon my earlier statement, I'll say this: I don't need to keep repeating "I'm not scared" with my eyes closed, as I quite honestly know that there's nothing at all to fear at the moment. I feel safe with my eyes wide open and my senses all about me.

3)Naivety, as in not comprehending how dangerous this world can be.

- I'll have to differ a third time. I say instead it is indicative of nothing short of worldliness itself. To know just how dangerous this world can be, to realize just how comparitively safe I am in the face of danger, and to comport myself accordingly, i.e. business-as-usual, how's-it-going-Fred, nice-day-Missus-Miggins, et cetera - is in all honesty, the only rational thing any rational person could do under the circumstances. If terrorists could hope to do one thing, it is to elicit from the individual a response, with luck terror, but really, any response whatsoever. Any change of lifestyle, a shift in values, new laws passed, less freedoms granted, all of which amounts to responses of fear and insecurity. I assert that such fears are to an enormous extent completely unwarranted, and of dubious practicality in day-to-day afaairs, such as sporting events.

Re: this last comment - how dangerous can a ball game be, up in the stands? Isn't it rather naive to assume that a group of swarthy-skinned men at a sporting match are undoubtedly up to no good, on the basis of them being a) a group; b) swarthy-skinned; and c) at a sporting match?

In light of it turning out to be a mistake due to the climate of unofficially-sanctioned xenophobia and the paranoia of would-be junior hall monitor wannabes, I should think such assumptions are quite clearly naive to a very nearly litigatable degree.

- I would choose instead to see this as an act of innate bravery, that the act of carrying on, status quo, all situations normal in light of the potential for personal, local, regional or national harm due to unforeseen acts is a small but frankly very brave act.

I don't go around expecting a terrorist under every cookie jar. However, I do go out every day prepared to have to deal with just about anything (being robbed, for instance, since it's happened to me before).

I've gone a few years carrying a pistol on me during all waking hours, and it's come in handy several times - and I haven't misused it or shot anyone.

Yes, you're far more likely to fall down the stairs than be attacked by terrorists. Or get killed in your car. But I still use the stair rail and I still buckle my seat belt. Consider my sidearm an extra safety measure.

That, and I have a literal mountain of ammunition, food, and water in my house.

That, and I have a literal mountain of ammunition, food, and water in my house.

I'm well prepared too. And this bird flu thing is something I'm watching as well.
Being able to work from home is a tremendous advantage sometimes.

If you were looking for terrorists at a football game, wouldn't the sight of five middle-eastern looking men standing around an air vent look suspicious? I think so and so did the stadium security guards (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/11/03/muslims_held_during_giants_game_allege_bias/)at a NY Giants game.

Of course the guys that were questioned are upset, but this is exactly the behavior that security forces should be looking for.

Everybody thought it was evil back when Soviet border guards used to pull stunts like that. I had a professor who got roughed up in Poland back when he was a grad student, just for being American.

It's alright if we do it though because we're the good guys. It all depends on who's doing the arbitrary detainment.

If you were looking for terrorists at a football game, wouldn't the sight of five middle-eastern looking men standing around an air vent look suspicious?
Seems like the security guards behaved properly, so no problem there.

But are you actually worried if you see a group of Middle Eastern Men standing around? Do you know how much the probability is of being killed by a group of Middle Eastern Men, compared to the probability of being killed by a White person?

This whole thing just seems a little irrational, that's all.

No, that's as lame as all get-out. Imagine the uproar if the FBI had detained five black dudes under similar circumstances back when Bobby Seale & the Black Panthers were in their heyday.

Racial profiling is the first step towards South African-style Apartheid.

I bet you that they would have done it then also. I don't agree with it. But anyone who's read Rainbow Six at least once will know that Air Intakes are perfect for imputting either a Bio or a Chemical element.

I bet you that they would have done it then also. I don't agree with it. But anyone who's read Rainbow Six at least once will know that Air Intakes are perfect for imputting either a Bio or a Chemical element.
Excuse me while I prolapse with laughter.

Anyone who ever watched an episode of 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' (or perhaps better remembered as Voyage to the Bottom of the Brain) knows that, too.

Shocking.

So maybe all air intakes everywhere should be closely monitored by paranoiacs. Will that make you sleep more soundly?

I bet you that they would have done it then also. I don't agree with it. But anyone who's read Rainbow Six at least once will know that Air Intakes are perfect for imputting either a Bio or a Chemical element.


And all our squabbling is being watched closely now. How we react, those that hesitate and cower over decisive action-all is being watched.
People that hate us and want to ruin us are here already. They see how we deal with natural disasters, they revel in the blame game and hand wringing. They take note of the confusion and back-stabbing.
They are cunning. They already took down two towers and the rest of the complex, killing thousands on our soil. They are still patient and well financed.

And we are still bumbling about our daily lives, worried we might hurt someone's feelings. Worried about lawsuits and protests. Divided over arguments over profiling and how terrible it is.

We're only temporarily united AFTER someone kicks us really hard in the balls.
I dont need a kick in the balls to be cautious and vigilant without being paranoid.

How many people actually read the entire article instead of just what was posted on the forum?

The security guard didn't just ask the men what they were doing. He had three more security guards and some police with him. If you see people act suspicious you see what they are up to. You don't automatically call the police. Then the men were taken to different seats then the ones they had before and watched over during the game. After the game, the men were escourted to their cars.

Would that have happened if there were 5 young white men hanging around an air vent? I seriously doubt it, but since these guys were Arab, or as far as the guard could tell Arab looking, they went through all of those needless measures because "Awl them damn A-rabs is terrorists."

-snip-
And so you unite under your Dear Leader, the grand arch-duke of America, to go and fight the evil heathens with the sword in one hand, and his version of the constitution in the other...

I think you might have missed the point: The only reason America is a special place in the hearts of many people is because of the freedom, the expression of one's views and the ability to disagree with government policy.
In a time when that was almost impossible in most nations in the world, that was common in the US.
Seems like it ain't anymore.

And so you unite under your Dear Leader, the grand arch-duke of America, to go and fight the evil heathens with the sword in one hand, and his version of the constitution in the other...

I think you might have missed the point: The only reason America is a special place in the hearts of many people is because of the freedom, the expression of one's views and the ability to disagree with government policy.
In a time when that was almost impossible in most nations in the world, that was common in the US.
Seems like it ain't anymore.


No- we'll bicker under the current President, with name calling and lame ridicule because we're bitter he beat our man soundly and after all, we dont like that smirk. We'll make believe if we pacify all peoples and hug and kiss and present ourselves to them they'll love us and our country and share their wonderful cultures with us and enrich us all. [sarcasm for the blithering nit-wits]
Sorry- They hate you and will plot against you and yours just as soon as they do mine. So, you can continue to coast along with that naive feel- good psuedo intellectual smugness towards the desire and conviction to keep our standard of living and way of life despite our incredible freedoms.
These men werent deprived of any freedom. They were checked out, got an appology and an upgrade on top of it. More than a white guy like me would have gotten. I have no problem being checked out if I am doing something out of the ordinary. Afternoon prayer in America, in public, is out of the ordinary, unless you've been hitting the pipe too often.

Anyway, save your misguided sarcasm for someone it will impress. I wouldnt expect anything constructive or helpful from someone with that point of view in a crisis anyway. Thats the attitude that you find on someone standing wet outside the Superdome, outraged the government let a hurricane destroy their home and they havent delivered a new one yet.

We're only temporarily united AFTER someone kicks us really hard in the balls.
Pretty much.

-snip-
I wasn't talking about the guys, I made my comment about that above. I was talking about your attack on anyone disagreeing with that policy.
There is no requirement for anyone to fall in line because you think there is a threat out there.
To be quite honest, personally I am much more worried of getting killed in a car accident than of getting killed by a terrorist. Face it: Terrorism is not that big a deal!
At least not big enough to justify revamping our judicial systems.

The thing about profiling is that the proper description of the vast majority of terrorists in the world is 'Young Middle-eastern looking Male". That doesn't mean the grandma and grandpa aren't capable of terrorst acts, just that they aren't likely to commit them.
The thing about the people doing the profiling is most of them are no more than averagely aware of what qualifies as 'middle eastern looking' and being averagely aware seems to mean having some notion of the stereotypes presented in hollywood flics...

And all our squabbling is being watched closely now. How we react, those that hesitate and cower over decisive action-all is being watched.
People that hate us and want to ruin us are here already. They see how we deal with natural disasters, they revel in the blame game and hand wringing. They take note of the confusion and back-stabbing.
They are cunning. They already took down two towers and the rest of the complex, killing thousands on our soil. They are still patient and well financed.
...
I dont need a kick in the balls to be cautious and vigilant without being paranoid.
http://www.articulate.org.uk/html/images/phoenix_pc_f16.jpg

:D :D:p :D

This whole thing just seems a little irrational, that's all.

Well, if we were to all act rationally in proportion to real statistical risk, we would be using nuclear power plants all over the US and not burning coal.

The Phase I coal-fired plants in the US alone put over 8 tons of pure uranium into the air every year. The total emissions by US reactor accidents that have EVER released don't even come close to that amount - yet no one wants a nuclear power plant near their town.

Let's put it this way - the idea of dying in a car accident is an already accepted risk. Not many people want to be disintegrated in a collapsing skyscraper hit by an airliner piloted by jihadis - only to have a few bone fragments found five years later on the top of a nearby building.

But anyone who's read Rainbow Six at least once will know that Air Intakes are perfect for imputting either a Bio or a Chemical element.

...and anyone who's watched Star Trek knows that tractor beams don't work during warp.

You know what's really funny about this whole thing?

Muslims, even liberal Muslims like myself, are more capable and able to stop a terrorist than any law enforcement in the world.

I happen to know that if I gave Sala'ams to someone strapped with explosives and actually spoke to him a little about Allah and Qur'an, I'd prevent more deaths than any number of US law enforcement could ever hope to acheive.

Ain't that a kick in the nuts? You have to rely on the very people you hate to stop people from blowing your nuts off.

You'd be amazed what we can do if you'd only give us the chance instead of telling people like Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) that they're automatically terrorists simply because they're Muslim.

Meh ... whatever .,... do it your way ... it's worked out so well so far ....

I have no problem being checked out if I am doing something out of the ordinary. Afternoon prayer in America, in public, is out of the ordinary, unless you've been hitting the pipe too often.
Ah, then you'd have no problem running into something like this then?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/onsenyunohanasign.jpg
Because being white is out of the ordinary in Japan and according to the owner, gaijin like myself have caused some damage and made folks uncomfortable when we go in to take a bath. So it's all find and dandy for you, right?

See, I've noticed that the people most often saying how they'd have no worries if they were ever stopped, have never been stopped, and know damn well that they'll never be.

Try living in a country were you are the minority and where police have no qualms stopping you at night to make sure you didn't just steal the bicycle you're ridding because you're not the majority culture.

Ah, then you'd have no problem running into something like this then?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/onsenyunohanasign.jpg
Because being white is out of the ordinary in Japan and according to the owner, gaijin like myself have caused some damage and made folks uncomfortable when we go in to take a bath. So it's all find and dandy for you, right?

See, I've noticed that the people most often saying how they'd have no worries if they were ever stopped, have never been stopped, and know damn well that they'll never be.

Try living in a country were you are the minority and where police have no qualms stopping you at night to make sure you didn't just steal the bicycle you're ridding because you're not the majority culture.

If I'm in their country that they built and my "type" is threatening or different-yes. I have no problem with being searched and asked a few questions. Its not that I've never been stopped-I have. More importantly,I have nothing to hide. I'm here legally, I have no outstanding warrants and carry no illegal weapons.
I'm always searched at the airport-shoes and belt off, patted down and gone through the metal detector as well as gone over with the wand,bags searched. I dont resent it at all.

And "Japanese Only" ? Fine with me-I dont need to be a part of whatever that is.
Imagine something like that sign in Amercia though? It'll never happen.

You know what's really funny about this whole thing?

Muslims, even liberal Muslims like myself, are more capable and able to stop a terrorist than any law enforcement in the world.

I happen to know that if I gave Sala'ams to someone strapped with explosives and actually spoke to him a little about Allah and Qur'an, I'd prevent more deaths than any number of US law enforcement could ever hope to acheive.

Ain't that a kick in the nuts? You have to rely on the very people you hate to stop people from blowing your nuts off.

You'd be amazed what we can do if you'd only give us the chance instead of telling people like Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) that they're automatically terrorists simply because they're Muslim.

Meh ... whatever .,... do it your way ... it's worked out so well so far ....


I sincerely doubt that having you chat with a suicide bomber would make him stop.

If I was sitting next to someone who was strapped with explosives, I would draw my pistol and put a bullet through his head. This technique has worked MANY times in Israel, and it's proven to be far more effective than talking to the guy.

I sincerely doubt that having you chat with a suicide bomber would make him stop.

If I was sitting next to someone who was strapped with explosives, I would draw my pistol and put a bullet through his head. This technique has worked MANY times in Israel, and it's proven to be far more effective than talking to the guy.

Wait! You dont think a seasoned muslim scholar could talk a fanatic out of martyrdom? Cant you ever give dialouge and pacification a chance?

Imagine the scenario: A wild eyed, sweaty guy who has gone this far-strapped with shoddy explosives and already at the place he intends to obliterate... (he doesnt know, but his handler-a real brave and commited hero for the cause is nearby with the radio control device to set off the charge if said youngster loses his nerve-or a white guy calmly talks him out of it..)
"Lets see...what do I do? Listen thoughtfully to the nice white muslim boy and consider what he has to say? Or go to the 60 something virgins that eagerly await me?"

No- the bullet works much better. Only- no virgins waiting at the station. Just dust. But the same dust he's lived his whole life in.

Me just wondering why five pious believers would go to a football stadium of all places.

To watch them half-naked cheergirls maybe;) and partake in the general worship of materialism that goes on there..:D

They are just making a drama out of the whole issue. Technically a muslim must ask for permission from the owner of the house before doing salah (prayers) in the house.

There is no indication that they did that.

Me just wondering why five pious believers would go to a football stadium of all places.

It's easy enough to spot the devout - those who pray five times a day, even though they aren't praying when you look at them.

I look for the dark smudge (it gets permanent after a while) on their foreheads.

My Egyptian friend taught me that one - and I've never been wrong.

Me just wondering why five pious believers would go to a football stadium of all places.

To watch them half-naked cheergirls maybe;) and partake in the general worship of materialism that goes on there..:D

They are just making a drama out of the whole issue. Technically a muslim must ask for permission from the owner of the house before doing salah (prayers) in the house.

There is no indication that they did that.
For the hot dogs and the cold beer, of course.

For the hot dogs and the cold beer, of course.

Yes, the best halal hot dogs are available at the stadium... :rolleyes:

Yes, the best halal hot dogs are available at the stadium... :rolleyes:
Isn't that why Bahrain exists? So that the pious Saudis can drive across the bridge and carouse with abandon in another country?

Best way to make sure you're not mistaken for a terrorist:

Wear a thong... And nothing else.

Isn't that why Bahrain exists? So that the pious Saudis can drive across the bridge and carouse with abandon in another country?

Bahrain rocks. As long as you have money.

For the hot dogs and the cold beer, of course.

or rather the pork chips :p

Sierra,

Your Egyptian friend's rule is correct only for muslims from poor neighborhoods. If they use nice carpets, the forehead will not get the mark. But then seldom is the case where somebody is rich and truly devout. So I guess his rule holds.:)

<snip>So maybe all air intakes everywhere should be closely monitored by paranoiacs. Will that make you sleep more soundly?
If it will keep them out of the way, sure.

Bahrain rocks. As long as you have money.
But there is always the ASU. I think that stands for Alcohol Support Unit, doesn't it? San Miguels for a quarter. Pretty expensive compared to the PI prices, but a whole lot better than the $7 a piece we paid at the Holiday Inn.

But there is always the ASU. I think that stands for Alcohol Support Unit, doesn't it? San Miguels for a quarter. Pretty expensive compared to the PI prices, but a whole lot better than the $7 a piece we paid at the Holiday Inn.

Unfortunately for me, I was a civilian when I went to Bahrain.

I say it takes guts to live your life as though there aren't terrorists hiding under every cookie jar out there. I say the overweening tendency to all be junior hall-monitors masks a greater issue of unofficially-sanctioned bigotry and racial intolerance that is frankly loathesome to see in the 21st century.

I've got a better idea: Why don't white Christian Americans stay securely locked in their homes where they can watch the big game on a wide-screen monitor? That way it'll make it easier to catch the terrorists, who'll all congregate at the stadium. Hell, just arrest everybody who turns up for the game, to be on the safe side.

After all, only terrorists would want to assemble in public places, right? Fits the profile, anyway. Close enough for jazz. Lock 'em up!
I agree. I grew up in New York City back in the 70s and 80s, nostalgically known as "the bad old days." Homegrown American terrorists littered the city with package and letter bombs. My schools had to be evacuated due to threats several times. My mother worked for a woman who lost a hand opening a random letter bomb. When I started high school and later started working, street violence was so bad, you really couldn't be sure you would finish an AM or PM commute alive. If it wasn't organized gangs waging open war in neighborhoods, then it was unmedicated schizophrenics pushing people in front of trains or setting their hair on fire with lighters because the voices told them to. Yet I enjoy life. I've never been afraid to go out, do business, have fun. I left New York, but not until I was in my 30s and not because of the dangers (it was because of the cockroaches, actually; that's where I draw my line). And nowadays, I just don't seem able to work up enough fear of terrorists to turn myself into an obedient stooge of the state.

If all the little scaredy-cats would just stay home already, it would at least improve traffic congestion, making it that much easier for the rest of us to get on with our lives -- in the minefields.

And all our squabbling is being watched closely now. How we react, those that hesitate and cower over decisive action-all is being watched.
People that hate us and want to ruin us are here already. They see how we deal with natural disasters, they revel in the blame game and hand wringing. They take note of the confusion and back-stabbing.
They are cunning. They already took down two towers and the rest of the complex, killing thousands on our soil. They are still patient and well financed.

And we are still bumbling about our daily lives, worried we might hurt someone's feelings. Worried about lawsuits and protests. Divided over arguments over profiling and how terrible it is.

We're only temporarily united AFTER someone kicks us really hard in the balls.
I dont need a kick in the balls to be cautious and vigilant without being paranoid.
I wholeheartedly agree! And I say this to the terrorists. Screw you guys, I'm ready for you! So next time you want to try something, pray to Allah that its around all these people who want to ignore you, because I, and a lot of others, will not be.

I agree. I grew up in New York City back in the 70s and 80s, nostalgically known as "the bad old days." Homegrown American terrorists littered the city with package and letter bombs. My schools had to be evacuated due to threats several times. My mother worked for a woman who lost a hand opening a random letter bomb. When I started high school and later started working, street violence was so bad, you really couldn't be sure you would finish an AM or PM commute alive. If it wasn't organized gangs waging open war in neighborhoods, then it was unmedicated schizophrenics pushing people in front of trains or setting their hair on fire with lighters because the voices told them to. Yet I enjoy life. I've never been afraid to go out, do business, have fun. I left New York, but not until I was in my 30s and not because of the dangers (it was because of the cockroaches, actually; that's where I draw my line). And nowadays, I just don't seem able to work up enough fear of terrorists to turn myself into an obedient stooge of the state.

If all the little scaredy-cats would just stay home already, it would at least improve traffic congestion, making it that much easier for the rest of us to get on with our lives -- in the minefields.


Too bad I'm not a scaredy-cat. And I'm not an obedient stooge of the state, either. But I'm also not an unarmed victim who will just sit there while watching some crime go down in front of me.

Unlike you, I am not a sheep.

Too bad I'm not a scaredy-cat. And I'm not an obedient stooge of the state, either. But I'm also not an unarmed victim who will just sit there while watching some crime go down in front of me.

Unlike you, I am not a sheep.
Some people are sheep. some people are shepards. Problem is, the sheep just don't realize how fucked they'd be without the shepards. They think the reason they are still alive is because the world is full of butterflies and flowers, and only mean people are victims of terrorism.

God forbid we protect ourselves, because that would make us "chickens".

Just like our military. What a bunch of pussies! They need guns? Jeez! What they need to do is disarm, and when terrorists attack them, just give them a hug, and tell them we won't profile them any more. That will solve EVERYTHING!

BTW Sierra, do you mind if I put that Lincoln quote in my sig?

I agree. I grew up in New York City back in the 70s and 80s, nostalgically known as "the bad old days." Homegrown American terrorists littered the city with package and letter bombs. My schools had to be evacuated due to threats several times. My mother worked for a woman who lost a hand opening a random letter bomb. When I started high school and later started working, street violence was so bad, you really couldn't be sure you would finish an AM or PM commute alive. If it wasn't organized gangs waging open war in neighborhoods, then it was unmedicated schizophrenics pushing people in front of trains or setting their hair on fire with lighters because the voices told them to. Yet I enjoy life. I've never been afraid to go out, do business, have fun. I left New York, but not until I was in my 30s and not because of the dangers (it was because of the cockroaches, actually; that's where I draw my line). And nowadays, I just don't seem able to work up enough fear of terrorists to turn myself into an obedient stooge of the state.

If all the little scaredy-cats would just stay home already, it would at least improve traffic congestion, making it that much easier for the rest of us to get on with our lives -- in the minefields.
My first few visits to NYC were between 1979 and 1984. I picked up a strong sense from those New Yorkers I came to know that no matter how messed up the world was around them, they, as individuals, were still fundamentally unassailable. They enjoyed themselves in spite of the climate surrounding them - not because of it, not because of a ham-handed response of official, burdgeoning, pervasive fear emanating from the midwest, or even from their own suburbs. In short, New Yorkers of that era were, to my way of thinking, an urban people for other urbanites to aspire to be like.

And in the interceding years, the urban community of which I form a part has begun to encounter many of the same problems you yourself have described, Muravyets. The gangs, the homeless, the mentally ill - these aren't problems relegated to NYC; they are part of the fabric of most urban centres these days. I've come to feel that urban dwellers have more in common with each other, regardless of national identity, than do an urbanite vs. a suburbanite vs. a rural-type all of whom share a national identity.

As you say - let the little scaredy-cats live their lives wrapped tightly in a security blanket of their own making. Hell, let 'em become a nation of shut-ins, for all I care. Just let the rest of us get on with living our lives without having to put up with all their pointless fear, anxiety, and yes - their paranoia, too.

Some people are sheep. some people are shepards.
That's a load of patriarchal jive. I'm no damn sheep, and neither are many others, no matter how you care to opine on the matter.

The quickest way to get me to opt out of any given 'flock' is to go around making shepards & sheep out of people.

BBAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Keep tellin yourself that. I hear it often, so it must be true.

Keep tellin yourself that. I hear it often, so it must be true.
That's just noise, and it's far from clever to put words (or barnyard sounds) into my mouth.

Ignored.

Pillock.

That's just noise, and it's far from clever to put words (or barnyard sounds) into my mouth.

Ignored.

Pillock.


that certainly wasnt necessary...

Some people are sheep. some people are shepards. Problem is, the sheep just don't realize how fucked they'd be without the shepards. They think the reason they are still alive is because the world is full of butterflies and flowers, and only mean people are victims of terrorism.

God forbid we protect ourselves, because that would make us "chickens".

Just like our military. What a bunch of pussies! They need guns? Jeez! What they need to do is disarm, and when terrorists attack them, just give them a hug, and tell them we won't profile them any more. That will solve EVERYTHING!

BTW Sierra, do you mind if I put that Lincoln quote in my sig?
Honey, if there's one thing in life I don't need it's some presumptuous little peasant who thinks he's going to shepherd me around. You poor sods claim you're not afraid, but all your actions scream that you're scared stiff, barking and snapping like cornered dogs. Well, I'm not cornered, I am aware of my enemies and the dangers they pose, I know how to take care of myself, and I don't need anybody else to do it for me. Screw your condescending insults.

PS: I say that on the understanding that my insults are not delivered in a condescending tone. :p

My first few visits to NYC were between 1979 and 1984. I picked up a strong sense from those New Yorkers I came to know that no matter how messed up the world was around them, they, as individuals, were still fundamentally unassailable. They enjoyed themselves in spite of the climate surrounding them - not because of it, not because of a ham-handed response of official, burdgeoning, pervasive fear emanating from the midwest, or even from their own suburbs. In short, New Yorkers of that era were, to my way of thinking, an urban people for other urbanites to aspire to be like.

And in the interceding years, the urban community of which I form a part has begun to encounter many of the same problems you yourself have described, Muravyets. The gangs, the homeless, the mentally ill - these aren't problems relegated to NYC; they are part of the fabric of most urban centres these days. I've come to feel that urban dwellers have more in common with each other, regardless of national identity, than do an urbanite vs. a suburbanite vs. a rural-type all of whom share a national identity.

As you say - let the little scaredy-cats live their lives wrapped tightly in a security blanket of their own making. Hell, let 'em become a nation of shut-ins, for all I care. Just let the rest of us get on with living our lives without having to put up with all their pointless fear, anxiety, and yes - their paranoia, too.
Those are some of the nicest compliments I've ever gotten about my hometown. Thanks so much. :fluffle: I don't live in NY now, but I will probably end my days there and be buried there with the honored bones of my ass-kickin' ancestors. <gets all misty and goes off to drink martinis in a Chinese restaurant and sing "East Side, West Side" through her tears>

Me just wondering why five pious believers would go to a football stadium of all places.

To watch them half-naked cheergirls maybe;) and partake in the general worship of materialism that goes on there..:D
That's ridiculous. So far as I know christianity doesnt view titilation via half-naked cheerleaders, or materialism anymore favourably than Islam. Plenty of practising christians go to footfall stadiums to watch matches.

They are just making a drama out of the whole issue. Technically a muslim must ask for permission from the owner of the house before doing salah (prayers) in the house.

There is no indication that they did that.
Technically it wasnt a house they were praying in.

That's ridiculous.

Hence the winky ;)

Technically it wasnt a house they were praying in.

Well, is the football stadium a public place? I really dunno, can anybody answer that?

Honey, if there's one thing in life I don't need it's some presumptuous little peasant who thinks he's going to shepherd me around. You poor sods claim you're not afraid, but all your actions scream that you're scared stiff, barking and snapping like cornered dogs. Well, I'm not cornered, I am aware of my enemies and the dangers they pose, I know how to take care of myself, and I don't need anybody else to do it for me. Screw your condescending insults.

PS: I say that on the understanding that my insults are not delivered in a condescending tone. :p

You obviously would do as well as my friend who also said he could "take care of himself". Unfortunately, that meant that the teenagers who robbed him chopped his hands off with a machete. They didn't let him learn enough martial arts in time, and didn't let him use his cell phone.

He previously refused my suggestion that he carry a pistol, as I do. There have been three attempted robberies on my person that have been stopped solely because I have a gun.

He's told me almost every day that I was right and he was wrong.

You obviously would do as well as my friend who also said he could "take care of himself". Unfortunately, that meant that the teenagers who robbed him chopped his hands off with a machete. They didn't let him learn enough martial arts in time, and didn't let him use his cell phone.

He previously refused my suggestion that he carry a pistol, as I do. There have been three attempted robberies on my person that have been stopped solely because I have a gun.

He's told me almost every day that I was right and he was wrong.

You know, that kind of crime used to carry the death penalty. Fucking legal system.

You know, that kind of crime used to carry the death penalty. Fucking legal system.

Being juveniles, and being their first time caught, and being that he survived, the prosecutor would not go for anything except malicious wounding and assault, armed robbery, and a host of smaller charges.

I'm sure I would have shot someone the moment I saw the machete.

Being juveniles, and being their first time caught, and being that he survived, the prosecutor would not go for anything except malicious wounding and assault, armed robbery, and a host of smaller charges.

I'm sure I would have shot someone the moment I saw the machete.

I am fairly sure if I was your friend, I would have paid to have the prosecutor's hands cut off by now. And had the kids whacked too.

That's just me.

I am fairly sure if I was your friend, I would have paid to have the prosecutor's hands cut off by now. And had the kids whacked too.

That's just me.
I'm fairly sure that if I was his friend (a) I wouldn't be his friend and (b) I would still have my hands. I remember the time I got robbed by a guy with a big knife (on Lafayette Street, it was). The cops couldn't stop laughing through the report I gave later. The part they liked best was when I listed what he got off me -- tampons, a book about physics, a plastic watch -- and they said, "Didn't you have any money?", and I showed them the $75 I had in my pants pocket. The guy demanded my bag and watch, not my money. The cops fell about at that one -- it's a long story, but that was kind of the punchline to it. And then there was the would-be rapist who grabbed me off the street and tried to drag me into the park. He got bruised and called an asshole for his trouble. And then there was the 250 lbs raging drunk who tried to strangle another guy he didn't know on the E train at rush hour, and I got so pissed off at him that I stepped in front of him as he was lunging and told him to sit the fuck down because I wasn't in the mood for his shit. Must have been that time of the month. Anyway, he thought I was crazy, but there was no more fighting on that train trip. All the kids I grew up with have funny stories like that, too.

I'm real sorry for the handless guy, and all, but Sierra just can't wrap his brain around the idea that he is obviously haunted by stories like that, that they dictate everything he thinks, says and does. He only reacts to them. He never gets control over them. They control him. My enemies and the dangers of life don't control me. I control me. So I'm not scared of anything, not even Sierra's vague wishful dire predictions of how I'm going to suffer in life.

I'm fairly sure that if I was his friend (a) I wouldn't be his friend and (b) I would still have my hands. I remember the time I got robbed by a guy with a big knife (on Lafayette Street, it was). The cops couldn't stop laughing through the report I gave later. The part they liked best was when I listed what he got off me -- tampons, a book about physics, a plastic watch -- and they said, "Didn't you have any money?", and I showed them the $75 I had in my pants pocket. The guy demanded my bag and watch, not my money. The cops fell about at that one -- it's a long story, but that was kind of the punchline to it. And then there was the would-be rapist who grabbed me off the street and tried to drag me into the park. He got bruised and called an asshole for his trouble. And then there was the 250 lbs raging drunk who tried to strangle another guy he didn't know on the E train at rush hour, and I got so pissed off at him that I stepped in front of him as he was lunging and told him to sit the fuck down because I wasn't in the mood for his shit. Must have been that time of the month. Anyway, he thought I was crazy, but there was no more fighting on that train trip. All the kids I grew up with have funny stories like that, too.

I'm real sorry for the handless guy, and all, but Sierra just can't wrap his brain around the idea that he is obviously haunted by stories like that, that they dictate everything he thinks, says and does. He only reacts to them. He never gets control over them. They control him. My enemies and the dangers of life don't control me. I control me. So I'm not scared of anything, not even Sierra's vague wishful dire predictions of how I'm going to suffer in life.


Ah, so you gave him your bag. Well, my friend gave them his wallet and cooperated with them. All six of them found it very funny, and that's why they cut his hands off.

Honey, if there's one thing in life I don't need it's some presumptuous little peasant who thinks he's going to shepherd me around. You poor sods claim you're not afraid, but all your actions scream that you're scared stiff, barking and snapping like cornered dogs. Well, I'm not cornered, I am aware of my enemies and the dangers they pose, I know how to take care of myself, and I don't need anybody else to do it for me. Screw your condescending insults.

PS: I say that on the understanding that my insults are not delivered in a condescending tone. :p
Heres a bit of advice. Unless your sucking my dick, or cooking my dinner, don't call me honey. And unless you think you you have the balls to tell me what to do, don't call me peasant. And as far as my condescending attitude goes, its not my fault if your so ignorant of life as to need condescendence to correct your ignorance.

that certainly wasnt necessary...
Like Hell it wasn't - and you know it. MY good humour has limits. SN exceeded those limits. How is that unnecessary, CL?

Like Hell it wasn't - and you know it. MY good humour has limits. SN exceeded those limits. How is that unnecessary, CL?
:rolleyes:

Heres a bit of advice. Unless your sucking my dick, or cooking my dinner, don't call me honey. And unless you think you you have the balls to tell me what to do, don't call me peasant. And as far as my condescending attitude goes, its not my fault if your so ignorant of life as to need condescendence to correct your ignorance.


I have no idea what this conflict is about, but I must say that post was really humorous in a "don't fuck with me buddy" sort of way. Given em the ol' one-two!

I have no sympathy for them.