NationStates Jolt Archive

Just looking round Amazon.co.uk some gift ideas for Christmas, and decided to look at the recomendations for ideas and got this:

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/1465/amazon9hk.jpg

I suppose there is a slightly tangential link. But still, are Nietzcheans reknown for their will to succeed in football management?


Oh yeah, then there was this:

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/6665/amazon7mt.jpg

Yes I know that it is probably because of students skewing the results!

EDIT: And it appears that the original discworld game is selling for a grand, I wish I never lost it now :(

Just looking round Amazon.co.uk some gift ideas for Christmas, and decided to look at the recomendations for ideas and got this:

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/1465/amazon9hk.jpg

I suppose there is a slightly tangential link. But still, are Nietzcheans reknown for their will to succeed in football management?


Oh yeah, then there was this:

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/6665/amazon7mt.jpg

Yes I know that it is probably because of students skewing the results!

They just have stuff they want to flog, so they'll recommend it to everyone in the hope that someone will buy it...

What in the name of the Galactic Empire is a "Football Manager"?

What in the name of the Galactic Empire is a "Football Manager"?

Somebody who manages a football team.

A brand new Football manager game for £15? I might actually get that

Somebody who manages a football team.
Ah... But on a computer?

What in the name of the Galactic Empire is a "Football Manager"?
Football management simulation for the PC. You take control of a football team, and the aim is to be as successful as possible. It's not easy, even if you do take control of one of the 'best' teams.

Football management simulation for the PC. You take control of a football team, and the aim is to be as successful as possible. It's not easy, even if you do take control of one of the 'best' teams.
That's an answer! Thank you, bro!

Hey, why exactly would you buy a book like The Antichrist? What kind of anarchist are you?

Football management simulation for the PC. You take control of a football team, and the aim is to be as successful as possible. It's not easy, even if you do take control of one of the 'best' teams.

And HIGHLY ADDICTIVE! :p

Hey, why exactly would you buy a book like The Antichrist? What kind of anarchist are you?

One with an interest in other philosophical ideas. Just because I have particular belief does mean I will blinker my reading accordingly. ;)

One with an interest in other philosophical ideas. Just because I have particular belief does mean I will blinker my reading accordingly. ;)


Be careful, der anarcho-kommissar is in anarcho-town, and he'll put you in anarcho-jail for your heresy.

Be careful, der anarcho-kommissar is in anarcho-town, and he'll put you in anarcho-jail for your heresy.

Provided I have a comfy bed and wide access to reading materials I don't care.

Provided I have a comfy bed and wide access to reading materials I don't care.


You've already been snapped at for having an *interest* in nietzsche. Do you really think they'll give you wide access to reading materials in anarcho-jail?

You've already been snapped at for having an *interest* in nietzsche. Do you really think they'll give you wide access to reading materials in anarcho-jail?

I'm an anarchist. Is there any other proof I need to put forward that I can dream? ;)

Though I'm sure some of the 'approved' reading materials will be interesting.

One with an interest in other philosophical ideas. Just because I have particular belief does mean I will blinker my reading accordingly.

But don't you already know what he says and that you don't agree with him?

And HIGHLY ADDICTIVE! :p
Yeah...I spent 14 whole days playing one version of Championship Manager in one year - somewhere in the region of 40 seasons.

But don't you already know what he says and that you don't agree with him?

Some of his stuff. But I find some of it interesting.

Anyway, I found The Antichrist for a quid in a second hand book shop. I think it was a good bargain.

Some of his stuff. But I find some of it interesting.

Anyway, I found The Antichrist for a quid in a second hand book shop. I think it was a good bargain.

Interesting? What do you find interesting about Nietzsche?

Yeah...I spent 14 whole days playing one version of Championship Manager in one year - somewhere in the region of 40 seasons.
Good GOD! :eek:

Interesting? What do you find interesting about Nietzsche?


If you have the guards beat him before they bring him in to see you, he'll probably be more apt to answer your questions.

Interesting? What do you find interesting about Nietzsche?

I take it you think his work is just a barren waste land with nothing to offer?

Though what I find interesting is his approach which is different to the standard things I have to read (rather dry arguements on fairly uninteresting things for the most part). A lot of his concept's I find interesting (even if I am not convinced by them) such as 'the will to power.'

Meh, but I'm not widely read on him. So when when I do get round to it I might have a different opinion of the man. But currently I have several huge reading lists to get through and essays to write, so it is unlikely it would be any time soon.

Good GOD! :eek:
You were the one who said it was addictive :p
It was fun...and my AS Level results didn't suffer too much *ahem*

You were the one who said it was addictive :p
It was fun...and my AS Level results didn't suffer too much *ahem*

You know that feeling when your eyes kinda crust over from forgetting to blink...?

*sigh*

Too often.... too too often.
*shakes head*

I take it you think his work is just a barren waste land with nothing to offer?

Well he was a hardcore élitist, for one.

Well he was a hardcore élitist, for one.

So?

I also have an interest in the classical elitists such as Mosca and Pareto. Similarly, I don't hold their conclusions and think their methodology is dubious, but some of it is interesting reading.

Though judge for yourself. (DISCLAIMER: I have only had the time to skim these, so they may be mixed up with something similar I was looking for):

http://www2.pfeiffer.edu/~lridener/courses/MICHELSR.HTML
http://www.spunk.org/library/places/germany/sp000711.txt

May I ask a question, do you only read works that support your already held notions or do you ever challenge them?

I'm inclined to think that you do read beyond notions, otherwise you wouldn't be so anti-Nietzche.

Also, I have to say that I find Nietzche far less objectionable than, say, Ayn Rand. Far less boring to read imo too.

Well he was a hardcore élitist, for one.

Question: have you actually sat down with any of Nietzsche's works and read it yourself, or have you just been relying on the Ladybird Books versions?

Question: have you actually sat down with any of Nietzsche's works and read it yourself, or have you just been relying on the Ladybird Books versions?

No, but I've read a lot about him indirectly that makes it clear what he believed.

Didn't Nietzsche support Bayern Munich?

Just looking round Amazon.co.uk some gift ideas for Christmas, and decided to look at the recomendations for ideas and got this:

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/1465/amazon9hk.jpg

I suppose there is a slightly tangential link. But still, are Nietzcheans reknown for their will to succeed in football management?


Oh yeah, then there was this:

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/6665/amazon7mt.jpg

Yes I know that it is probably because of students skewing the results!

EDIT: And it appears that the original discworld game is selling for a grand, I wish I never lost it now :(

Aren't the reccomendations based off of what other people bought after viewing items in your recent history?

No, but I've read a lot about him indirectly that makes it clear what he believed.

Be careful about doing that. You usually end up with a cockeyed view of someone, with the writer's own biases as well.

Trust, I tried to do the same with Hegel because for various reasons I never got round round to reading Phenomenology of Spirit. Apparently it showed. :(

I cannot say that I am not shocked (as well as a little disgusted) by the anti-intellectualism you are showing Letila. Nietzsche seems to have gotten to you very deeply, the emotions you seem to exhibit towards him and his ideas, namely disgust and horror, which compel you to dissuade others from even studying him is also slightly worrying. That sort of anger usually hints at something else being a problem.

Aren't the reccomendations based off of what other people bought after viewing items in your recent history?

That's why I put:

"Yes I know that it is probably because of students skewing the results!"

In my opening post. :)

Be careful about doing that. You usually end up with a cockeyed view of someone, with the writer's own biases as well.

Trust, I tried to do the same with Hegel because for various reasons I never got round round to reading Phenomenology of Spirit. Apparently it showed. :(

I cannot say that I am not shocked (as well as a little disgusted) by the anti-intellectualism you are showing Letila. Nietzsche seems to have gotten to you very deeply, the emotions you seem to exhibit towards him and his ideas, namely disgust and horror, which compel you to dissuade others from even studying him is also slightly worrying. That sort of anger usually hints at something else being a problem.


Perhaps Big Anarchist Brother is just acting in his anarcho-role as anarcho-thought policeman?

No, but I've read a lot about him indirectly that makes it clear what he believed.

You obviously haven't been reading Kaufmann on Nietzsche or any of the post-humanists then. Are you always happy to let other people do your thinking for you? Philosophy is not about accepting second-hand accounts of thought or discussion (except where the first hand sources no longer exist), it is about directly engaging with the original sources or texts. Reading just secondary texts is just letting yourself be spoonfed, whereas reading primary texts is actually thinking for yourself in interpreting and understanding them.

I seriously doubt that you do have a firm grasp of what he believed - your comments and interpretations in the thread devoted to refuting Nietzsche show a shaky grip at best, and one which is littered with misconceptions and obvious connects which were unmade.

If you seriously aim to refute Nietzsche then the very least you could do is read at least one of his original writings - do you not have the two hours to spare that it would take to read one of his shorter works like The Antichrist or Twilight Of The Idols?

You obviously haven't been reading Kaufmann on Nietzsche or any of the post-humanists then. Are you always happy to let other people do your thinking for you? Philosophy is not about accepting second-hand accounts of thought or discussion (except where the first hand sources no longer exist), it is about directly engaging with the original sources or texts. Reading just secondary texts is just letting yourself be spoonfed, whereas reading primary texts is actually thinking for yourself in interpreting and understanding them.

If you seriously aim to refute Nietzsche then the very least you could do is read at least one of his original writings - do you not have the two hours to spare that it would take to read one of his shorter works like The Antichrist or Twilight Of The Idols?


The answers to those questions might not be what you want to hear, Grampus.

Letita is after all a convinced anarchist.

Trust, I tried to do the same with Hegel because for various reasons I never got round round to reading Phenomenology of Spirit. Apparently it showed. :(

I did much the same for an essay on Spinoza - to say that my interpretation was coloured by the secondary text I had drawn upon is to understate the matter greatly. Once I actually did get round to reading the relevant parts of Spinioza himself my perspectives changed dramatically and blindingly obvious things which had not been mentioned in the Idiot's Guide suddenly leapt out at me, such as the fact that despite all his talk of God, Spinoza was actually sneaking a strictly atheist philosophy in under the radar.

Maybe I should give him a chance, but can you really blame me? I don't want to die, but I am so out of ideas on how to refute him that I may have to.

Letita is after all a convinced anarchist.

So am I, untroubled by the fact that Nietzsche described us all as 'anarchist dogs which now rove the streets of European culture'. The fact that I have actually looked into his works in more than just surface details tells me that it is incredibly easy to get the wrong end of the stick with Nietzsche. In some ways it is helpful to think of Nietzsche as an internet troll who actually has some very valid and important things to say, but says them in such a way as is calculated to offend and prejudice everybody against him until they latch on to the game that he is actually playing.

Maybe I should give him a chance, but can you really blame me? I don't want to die, but I am so out of ideas on how to refute him that I may have to.

Everybody dies. You can't kill death. Nietzsche didn't bring death into the world.

EDIT: Nor, for that matter, did he kill God - He was slain by the Enlightenment.

Maybe I should give him a chance, but can you really blame me? I don't want to die, but I am so out of ideas on how to refute him that I may have to.


If you are considering killing yourself on the pretense that you cannot 'refute nietzsche' you should go and tell a doctor first, as you might genuinely be suffering from depression.

Everybody dies. You can't kill death. Nietzsche didn't bring death into the world.

EDIT: Nor, for that matter, did he kill God - He was slain by the Enlightenment.


Indeed, dear old Friedrich just sort-of carved his headstone ;)

If you are considering killing yourself on the pretense that you cannot 'refute nietzsche' you should go and tell a doctor first, as you might genuinely be suffering from depression.

Nevermind the fact that the attempt to refute Nietzsche is actually a pretty graphic example of the Will To Power seeking to crush all that opposes it and render them neutralised, thus ensuring its own growth, operation and influence upon the world...

Ergo, Letila's attempt to refute Nietzsche serves to reinforce the Nietzschean conception of reality.

If you are considering killing yourself on the pretense that you cannot 'refute nietzsche' you should go and tell a doctor first, as you might genuinely be suffering from depression.

In this case, not being able to refute him means that I must be killed, right? His philosophy states that the weak should be killed, so if I can't refute him, it follows that he was right and I should be killed.

Nevermind the fact that the attempt to refute Nietzsche is actually a pretty graphic example of the Will To Power seeking to crush all that opposes it and render them neutralised, thus ensuring its own growth, operation and influence upon the world...

Ergo, Letila's attempt to refute Nietzsche serves to reinforce the Nietzschean conception of reality.

Actually, I'm just interested in staying alive. I don't want to crush anyone, I just don't want to be shot. I am an anarchist and have no interest in power.

Letita is after all a convinced anarchist.

So am I.

Though I would have thought my anarchist credentials would be attacked over thinking about shopping at Amazon for Christmas presents than over being interested in Nietzschean philosophical ideas.

I am an anarchist and have no interest in power.


Anarchism is intricately connected to the question of power: it is not in opposition to it, rather it is just in opposition to heirarchy.

Anarchism is intricately connected to the question of power: it is not in opposition to it, rather it is just in opposition to heirarchy.

Anarchism is opposed to power, though. Power is excersized by those at the top of the hierarchy on those at the bottom of the hierarchy.

Anarchism is opposed to power, though. Power is excersized by those at the top of the hierarchy on those at the bottom of the hierarchy.

If you believe that anarchism is opposed to power then you are fighting for a world where people are disempowered and unable to act.


Power is not a one way street: just as in heirarchies those at the top weild power over those beneath them, so to do those at the bottom exercise their limited powers over those above them. In an egalitarian non-heirarchical and equal network, such as the one which anarchists fight for, power is shared equally by all - there is no destruction of power, just an equitable redistribution thereof.

If you believe that anarchism is opposed to power then you are fighting for a world where people are disempowered and unable to act.


Power is not a one way street: just as in heirarchies those at the top weild power over those beneath them, so to do those at the bottom exercise their limited powers over those above them. In an egalitarian non-heirarchical and equal network, such as the one which anarchists fight for, power is shared equally by all - there is no destruction of power, just an equitable redistribution thereof.

Good point, though the kind of power used by an anarchist is decidedly different than the kind used by a Nietzschean. My use of power is merely to keep me alive in the face of strong arguments that suggest I am unworthy of life. A Nietzschean uses their power to end the lives of people like me.

A Nietzschean uses their power to end the lives of people like me.

No, a 'true' Nietzschean focusing on using their power to make art in and of the world. The heart of the new system of values which Nietzsche asserts lies in music, dance, poetry, sculpture, drama, literature and song, a point which is far too often missed. Reigning purely for the sake of reigning and exerting ones power over others is a pointless and petty pursuit in Nietzsche's view and is just a modified form the ressentiment which the slave morality engenders.