NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been getting into a lot of arguments lately about which music genre takes the most talent to create, and so far I've never agreed with anyone. I guess tastes vary a little too much from person to person, but I'd like to see what everyone here thinks. To me I think R&B (To all you people who can't tell the difference between R&B and Rap, which I can't see how that's possible, I'm not talking about rap like 50 Cent or all that trash, I'm talking about Luthor Vandross, Toni Braxton, etc) takes the most talent to create.

I'm not talking about this recent trash that sounds exactly the same and takes no time to create what so ever, I'm talking about the greats like Stevie Wonder who write the lyrics, write the music, play all the instruments, sing, etc. When you sing in R&B it's REALLY easy to sound bad, in a lot of other genres it's hard to sound bad because the music in general is bad, or just not too complicated. What do you think is the most time consuming and creative genre?

Classical (using term broadly). I mean you have 60-300 instruments divided into 4-50+ parts. And 600 years of people you're trying very hard not to copy. May not be your favorite, or the best, but definantly the hardest to write.-

Oi! Punk, obviously :rolleyes:

Edit: I think this topic is utter bullshit. Music doesn't nessecarily rely on skill or even talent, it relies just as much on the listener, and in this day & age, on the advertising companies.

Classical (using term broadly). I mean you have 60-300 instruments divided into 4-50+ parts. And 600 years of people you're trying very hard not to copy. May not be your favorite, or the best, but definantly the hardest to write.-

I was just thinking that when I posted the poll, I'm going to have to change my mind to Classical, but other than Classical I'm going to have to go with R&B.

I don't think there's just one type of music that takes the most talent etc.

All of them need it to be great.

But there are certain bands/artists that no matter what their chosen field of music is, you can tell that they are hugely talented and creative.

My favrourite 'genre' is rock and everything that comes under it.

I can see that bands like Radiohead, Metallica, Biffy Clyro (bet you haven't heard of them...) etc. are all hugely talented and inventive, despite each of them playing completely different music.

I was just thinking that when I posted the poll, I'm going to have to change my mind to Classical, but other than Classical I'm going to have to go with R&B.
I'd personally go with jazz next, particullarly big band bop type stuff. But thats just me. (By the by, saw Maynard Fuergosen and his big band a couple weeks ago. HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!! It was wicked good.)

I'd personally go with jazz next, particullarly big band bop type stuff. But thats just me. (By the by, saw Maynard Fuergosen and his big band a couple weeks ago. HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!! It was wicked good.)

Damn, Jazz is another good one. Some of THE best music I've ever heard was by Steve Turre And The Sanctified Seashells. They actually use seashells as instruments! I'm not going to go with Jazz though because most of it is random and made up on the spot. While that's hard to accomplish, most musicians can do that.

Oi! Punk, obviously :rolleyes:

Edit: I think this topic is utter bullshit. Music doesn't nessecarily rely on skill or even talent, it relies just as much on the listener, and in this day & age, on the advertising companies.

So according to your view, the manufactured fakeness of Britney Spears is just bursting full of raw undeniable talent? :rolleyes:

My favorite genre is Rock but its difficult to argue that anything is more complicated and requires more talent than classical music. I vote for classical, it is without a doubt the most challenging type of music to compose.

Well, thats not completely accurate, there are classical music pieces that are not very complex (a sonata or a string quartet for example), but Classical music also includes the symphonies, suites, overtures, etc. which are extremely challenging to compose.

Damn, Jazz is another good one. Some of THE best music I've ever heard was by Steve Turre And The Sanctified Seashells. They actually use seashells as instruments! I'm not going to go with Jazz though because most of it is random and made up on the spot. While that's hard to accomplish, most musicians can do that.
Actually, very few can do it well. Very very few (I can't:( . But I'm learning. (and paying a hell of a lot of money to do it)). And like I said, big band. Very complicated, has to be very well written (big band is, except for the solos). My favorite music ever. Brings much of the complexity of everything before, and much of the downright groove of everything after. I love jazz. Oh ,and seashells. Awsome. *goes looking for recording*

I would say classical, at least in my opinion. I've never heard any music in any other genre that strikes me as truly awesome, I guess.

I'm not sure how to judge the talent and imagination it takes to create different types of music, since a genius at jazz can be crap at rock or something...

However, based on time alone, I'd go for orchestral (classic) compositions. I mean, you have to write parts for a large variety of instruments: flutes, clarinets, trumpets, french horns, tubas, baritones, trombones, drums, violins, etc., etc. and though a lot of times the parts for similar instruments are fairly identical, it still tends to mishmash a fair bit, and you're STILL left with a bunch of separate parts that you need to make mesh together well... Add in that some orchestral pieces can get up to 30+ minutes long... I think the time involved will generally outshine what's needed for other forms of music.

Actually, very few can do it well. Very very few (I can't:( . But I'm learning. (and paying a hell of a lot of money to do it)). And like I said, big band. Very complicated, has to be very well written (big band is, except for the solos). My favorite music ever. Brings much of the complexity of everything before, and much of the downright groove of everything after. I love jazz. Oh ,and seashells. Awsome. *goes looking for recording*

That's the first thing I learned how to do actually when I first tought myself Piano, then I moved up to Guitar, Drums, and Sax. It's pretty easy when you start off and you don't learn anyone elses peices, you just learn the notes and you put them together in your head and get to know the variety of notes that the instrument can generate. When I became skilled at that I moved onto peices by artists.

By the way if you listen to Steve Turre, I suggest you listen to the album Rhythm Within, and a certain song on there called "Morning". That's some great music right there.

Damn, Jazz is another good one. Some of THE best music I've ever heard was by Steve Turre And The Sanctified Seashells. They actually use seashells as instruments! I'm not going to go with Jazz though because most of it is random and made up on the spot. While that's hard to accomplish, most musicians can do that.

Going to have to disaggree with the last comment here. Improve is the HARDEST thing a musician can do. Most can't do it at all, and even less can do it well. Almost anyone can learn to play a piece of music if the pratice it.

But back to the question at hand. I would rate Classical music as the hardest and most complex to write. And in most cases you have to be a excellent musician to play classical while in other forms of music you can get away with being quite bad.

Opera.

So according to your view, the manufactured fakeness of Britney Spears is just bursting full of raw undeniable talent? :rolleyes:
No. But then, I can't stand muzak. If I considered her a musical genius, then I'd bloody well consider her a musicial genius.

It's in the eye of the beholder.

No doubt math metal is some of the most complex soundscapes humanity has created. Does that mean it's good by default? Talented? Don't think so mate. It just means it's complex as hell. A 3 cord pop-song may be just as good, imaginative and whatnot. It depends on the listener.

Anyway, all bands suck ;)

classical or the most complex of metal (joe satriani, vai, dream theatre...) at close second

Opera.
*sings an Auria*

Just for fun.

And because I have my voice back. YAY!!!!!!!!!


(I'm studying to be a professional musician. I'm a classicaly trained cellist and singer, and a Jazz Bassist. My voice is a bid deal. So are Auria's unfortunately:sniper: :headbang: )

Brittney Spears??

Porn is not music...........;) :sniper: :headbang: :cool:

*sings an Auria*

Just for fun.

And because I have my voice back. YAY!!!!!!!!!


(I'm studying to be a professional musician. I'm a classicaly trained cellist and singer, and a Jazz Bassist. My voice is a bid deal. So are Auria's unfortunately:sniper: :headbang: )

:) Yay for classically trained singers!

Certain Metal.

I am one of the very lone few who believe that certain metal is classical music evolved. And it at times surpasses the classical masterpieces of the yesterday.

The reason I used at times, is because not all metal obviously surpasses classical complexity. Death, for instance, does. Chuck Schuldiner had the musical vision that exceeded the scope of any Mozart or Bach. Perhaps only Beethoven is his equal.

If you're going to sit down and write a piece of classical music, there's no fudging anything. There are no half-measures, like, here, you, play these chords-- you can't tell anybody to improvise anything-- well, you can, but odds are that the orchestra will have a very limited interpretation of what that means. Responsibility for the entire piece and for everything the listener hears in that piece is on you, the composer.

There are rules that you need to learn to follow before you break them-- melody, harmony, counterpoint, form, structure, theme, variations, orchestration. None of these are trivial and there's a lot to know.

I work mostly in a rock context, but I do score some of my work because I know that the song has to go Just That Way At That Moment. So the guys I work with had better be able to read a little bit. And it happens that most of the people I've worked with could improvise a little bit, too... I guess that equates to progressive rock actually. But of the three elements that make up that equation for me, the skill set I needed to compose classically was the hardest to come by.

:) Yay for classically trained singers!
Yay for I'm not very good, and I'm going to use all my training to sing rock.:)(sing it, not scream it)

Certain Metal.

I am one of the very lone few who believe that certain metal is classical music evolved. And it at times surpasses the classical masterpieces of the yesterday.

The reason I used at times, is because not all metal obviously surpasses classical complexity. Death, for instance, does. Chuck Schuldiner had the musical vision that exceeded the scope of any Mozart or Bach. Perhaps only Beethoven is his equal.
Beethoven=God
Mozart=Good
Bach=:headbang:

(I don't like him. Nor much Baroque for that matter. To thin for my tastes. Admitadly, it has its moments, but so much of it is just trash. But that is due to the volume of it. It is estimated Bach wrote an average of a choral contada a week over the course of his life. When you have to crank it out that fast, some of it will suck. I will admit, the man was talented, I just don't like his music, not much of it anyways. The only baroque composer I am consistantly sastified with is Vivaldi.)

:rolleyes: Two music-related polls in one day and neither has metal. Bleh.

Though for this one I'd say classical requires a lot from the creator and jazz a lot from the musician, more so than the other genres. I'd also say (some) metal requires great amounts of thought and effort to be put into its creation (not to mention near-virtuoso technical ability). I'm sure most other genres have some artists who really put care into creating and playing their music, but metal bands that do this produce my favorite kind of music, so I'm kinda biased towards them.

I'd say that while Classical is hardest to compose, Jazz takes a Hell of a lot more to perform especially when you consider the sack that Improvisation before an audience takes.
I'm going to vote Classical anyway, because I have a slight personal preference in that direction.

Classical, obviously.

Classical (using term broadly). I mean you have 60-300 instruments divided into 4-50+ parts. And 600 years of people you're trying very hard not to copy. May not be your favorite, or the best, but definantly the hardest to write.-

Bingo!
My younger brother (http://web.grinnell.edu/individuals/mcintyr2/) is an "classical" composer. I know how much goes into the creation of this music, and it's a hell of a lot!

Classical. Nothing else even comes close.

I'm very glad to see the poll reflects this :D