NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't like to split music into strict categories, but some people do. Tell me what is "metal", what isn't, and why.

DISCLAIMER:
By posting a reply that states that a certain type of music is "shit", "shite" or suchlike, you agree that you are a retard.

It isn't Limp Bizkit or Metallica, I'll you that for nowt: these bands are what's technically known as "Shite" not "Metal".
(Or "Corporate buttplug Muzak".)

Metal is a more complicated form of rock that originally was characterized by neo-classicism but would eventually split into many more subgenres some like black metal actually going into minimalism. However, it is the concentration on guitar riffage that distinguishes metal from non-metal. Though instrumental solos are common in metal they are not necessarily distinctive charecteristcs.

Thats the best definition I can give, really.

It isn't Limp Bizkit or Metallica, I'll you that for nowt: these bands are what's technically known as "Shite" not "Metal".
(Or "Corporate buttplug Muzak".)
No.

"Kill Em All" Metallica was one among the epitomes of thrash metal. AFter that they went downhill and left metal altogether.

Metal is a more complicated form of rock that originally was characterized by neo-classicism but would eventually split into many more subgenres some like black metal actually going into minimalism. However, it is the concentration on guitar riffage that distinguishes metal from non-metal. Though instrumental solos are common in metal they are not necessarily distinctive charecteristcs.

Thats the best definition I can give, really.

So, what would you say it is that makes nu-metal not actually metal?

No.

"Kill Em All" Metallica was one among the epitomes of thrash metal.
And therer was me thinking it was a bad impersonation of Motorhead. One lives and learns.

metal is any rock that can't be classified as another sub-group of rock (ie alternative, punk, pop-punk, semi-pop-alternative, crap, ect.)

its me. catch the name ;)


ah metal is a massive genre, just some parts of it are more hardcore or 'real metal' than others. even limp bizkit is officially metal in my books. even funeral for a friend is metal, too :eek:


edit: Pantera is fucking metal. about as close to 'true' metal as you can get imho

Tell me what is "metal", what isn't, and why.
Well according to dictionary.com, this is metal:
Any of a category of electropositive elements that usually have a shiny surface, are generally good conductors of heat and electricity, and can be melted or fused, hammered into thin sheets, or drawn into wires:D :D :D :D

So, what would you say it is that makes nu-metal not actually metal?
Nu-metal is quite simply, too simplified to be metal. You have a bare minimum of guitar riffs, and some second-rate vocalist is the focus of the whole band.

its me. catch the name ;)


ah metal is a massive genre, just some parts of it are more hardcore or 'real metal' than others. even limp bizkit is officially metal in my books. even funeral for a friend is metal, too :eek:

So what are your favourite bands? Just a few please, not 20 (I've seen people do that in past).

I actually like a wide range of music, but Metal is my favourite - assuming I even know what it is....

Pantera is fucking metal. about as close to 'true' metal as you can get imho

I've never heard Pantera!

So, what would you say it is that makes nu-metal not actually metal?

Definately.

"Metal" is a guitar oriented form of music, having heavy distortion and a emphasis on technically difficult guitar work. Bands that were looked upon as having terrible guitarists (Motley Crue, Posion) from that era would be considered "gods" in today's "nu-metal". Metal song writing was much more riff oriented and more complex than the vast majority of Nu-metal as well. It's also my opinion (but only my opinion) that Metal in general is much more talented as far as musicanship goes than nu-metal.

One Word..........PANTERA

~EDIT~ Hey PureMeatal, I guess we finally agree on something! lol

R.I.P. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (August 20, 1966 – December 9, 2004)

Metal is a more complicated form of rock that originally was characterized by neo-classicism but would eventually split into many more subgenres some like black metal actually going into minimalism. However, it is the concentration on guitar riffage that distinguishes metal from non-metal. Though instrumental solos are common in metal they are not necessarily distinctive charecteristcs.

Thats the best definition I can give, really.
Early thrash metal was originally related to punk, whereas the early heavy metal came out of hard rock.

In metal there is much more of a priority placed on rhythm than in rock. In all genres of metal, bass drums tend to be used heavily.

EDIT: I see the old "why isn't nu-metal real metal" debate is sparking up. My answer lies above: in most nü-metal the emphasis is placed on the vocals and the melody. There are some exceptions, such as System of a Down, but for the most part nü-metal has more rock characteristics than metal.

So what are your favourite bands? Just a few please, not 20 (I've seen people do that in past).

I actually like a wide range of music, but Metal is my favourite - assuming I even know what it is....
i like a wide range in metal, see... thats why i don't like narrowing the definition too much. favourites are Testament, Pantera, Sepultura (all basic metal), Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Exodus (thrash), God Forbid, Crowbar, Dream Theatre, Machine Head, Deftones and KoRn (both nu-metal), Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death (grindcore), SOAD, hell i even like Linkin Park (great live show)

of course i included some subgenres in there, but they're all metal
I've never heard Pantera!
damn boy you are missing out! go get some right now!

(try and get your hands on the video of their Live In Seoul gig... most amazing gig video ever!)

One Word..........PANTERA

~EDIT~ Hey PureMeatal, I guess we finally agree on something! lol

R.I.P. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (August 20, 1966 – December 9, 2004)
indeed :(
man that was one hell of a shit day :(

Early thrash metal was originally related to punk, whereas the early heavy metal came out of hard rock.

Those are relatively well-known facs, but it is my conjecture, though their origins were varied, both embraced the spirit of neoclassicism.

R.I.P. "Dimebag" Darrell Abbott (August 20, 1966 – December 9, 2004)
Yeah, that was a terrible way to die. Some crazy bastard killer...

Those are relatively well-known facs, but it is my conjecture, though their origins were varied, both embraced the spirit of neoclassicism.
I agree, they both embraced technical proficiency and harmony.

Those are relatively well-known facs, but it is my conjecture, though their origins were varied, both embraced the spirit of neoclassicism.

Early Husker Du can be considered a form of Metal... Listen to "Land Speed Record" and "Metal Circus", and you'll see what I mean.

i like a wide range in metal, see... thats why i don't like narrowing the definition too much. favourites are Testament, Pantera, Sepultura (all basic metal), Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Exodus (thrash), God Forbid, Crowbar, Dream Theatre, Machine Head, Deftones and KoRn (both nu-metal), Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death (grindcore), SOAD, hell i even like Linkin Park (great live show)

of course i included some subgenres in there, but they're all metal

I either like or haven't heard all of those. What do you think of Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Iron Maiden?

Iron Maiden

Oh god, YES!

Early Husker Du can be considered a form of Metal... Listen to "Land Speed Record" and "Metal Circus", and you'll see what I mean.
I haven't even heard of Husker Du... but whats your point anyways? There's a lot of metal out there that can be considered borderline.

I haven't even heard of Husker Du... but whats your point anyways? There's a lot of metal out there that can be considered borderline.

I'm just furthering the point of some genres of Metal being heavily intertwined with Punk Rock.

And you've never heard of them? Listen, you must, because they're one of the best bands ever. Seriously.

I either like or haven't heard all of those. What do you think of Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Iron Maiden?
oh, classics of course, and certainly metal. between myself and a friend we have all the maiden albums (plus some rareities), and all the sabbath (but not all the ozzy), so i'm a big fan... just they're not any longer in my favourites list, as they once were


btw, an awesome pantera song (http://www.hlj.me.uk/ns/UMTA%20mp3.mp3) :D
(vinnie paul is a fucking machine!)

I'm just furthering the point of some genres of Metal being heavily intertwined with Punk Rock.

And you've never heard of them? Listen, you must, because they're one of the best bands ever. Seriously.
Hey if your going to bring up the point that thrash metal has been interwined with punk why not bring up Suicidal Tendencies?!

And no I haven't heard of them. Have you heard of Death? (many people haven't even heard of them :( )

Hey if your going to bring up the point that thrash metal has been interwined with punk why not bring up Suicidal Tendencies?!

And no I haven't heard of them. Have you heard of Death? (many people haven't even heard of them :( )
Suicidal Tendencies are awesome. You gotta love their song "I shot the Devil"

oh, classics of course, and certainly metal. between myself and a friend we have all the maiden albums (plus some rareities), and all the sabbath (but not all the ozzy), so i'm a big fan... just they're not any longer in my favourites list, as they once were


btw, an awesome pantera song (http://www.hlj.me.uk/ns/UMTA%20mp3.mp3) :D
(vinnie paul is a fucking machine!)

Pretty cool song. Who's Vinnie Paul?

i've come to a conclusion in my thinking: metal is anything that sounds heavy and has an attitude.

'heavy' is highly subjective of course, but the attitude is just as important... which is how husker du and actually quite a lot of what i would normally call 'punk' could easily be considered metal... and why i'll quite happily listen to it :)



ahh but then i just love the attitude of Pantera. some bands will go around growling and trying to sound mean, being all gothic and burning churches, drinking blood and all that shit... posers. they do it because they think its cool. why do they think its cool? because other people do - because they care what other people think.
not pantera. phil doesn't give a flying fuck what anybody else thinks - he's just gonna go out there, take a shitload of drugs and make some horribly heavy noise, cos its what he feels like doing. thats also why i think pantera to be a more apt expression of anger than almost any other band, and more 'real' or 'true' metal. unlike, say, meshuggah or cradle of filth or anything of the sort. this is also why i respect bands like napalm death, bolt thrower, and even machine head and god forbid so much - same sort of thing. in the words of the late, great, Paul Baloff (singer for Exodus), "it doesn't matter if 1 person comes or if a million people came: they'd still be fucking heavy!"
of course, anybody who knows anything about pantera can see i'm talking about the band post-vulgar displays, and certainly after 'cowboys...

Pretty cool song. Who's Vinnie Paul?
drummer. machine :D
man if only you could see the video this song was recorded off - vinnie just owns those drums :P

there are a fair few easier-to-get-into pantera songs than that one, so kudos :)

OK. I'm listening to Arch Enemy now.

It isn't Limp Bizkit or Metallica, I'll you that for nowt: these bands are what's technically known as "Shite" not "Metal".
(Or "Corporate buttplug Muzak".)

I beg to differ. The genre to which those bands belong is correctly refered to as "Mall-Core."

I've never heard Pantera!
you are kidding right?
if not you should check them out. I used to like them a lot (but it was in the 80's)

you are kidding right?
if not you should check them out. I used to like them a lot (but it was in the 80's)

I will check them out. Is there a best of, and if not, which is the best album?

I will check them out. Is there a best of, and if not, which is the best album?

There is a Best Of, titled Reinventing Hell: the Best of Pantera

I don't like to split music into strict categories, but some people do. Tell me what is "metal", what isn't, and why.

DISCLAIMER:
By posting a reply that states that a certain type of music is "shit", "shite" or suchlike, you agree that you are a retard.
Not Linkin' Park
Not Limp Bizkit

i've come to a conclusion in my thinking: metal is anything that sounds heavy and has an attitude.

'heavy' is highly subjective of course, but the attitude is just as important... which is how husker du and actually quite a lot of what i would normally call 'punk' could easily be considered metal... and why i'll quite happily listen to it :)



ahh but then i just love the attitude of Pantera. some bands will go around growling and trying to sound mean, being all gothic and burning churches, drinking blood and all that shit... posers. they do it because they think its cool. why do they think its cool? because other people do - because they care what other people think.
not pantera. phil doesn't give a flying fuck what anybody else thinks - he's just gonna go out there, take a shitload of drugs and make some horribly heavy noise, cos its what he feels like doing. thats also why i think pantera to be a more apt expression of anger than almost any other band, and more 'real' or 'true' metal. unlike, say, meshuggah or cradle of filth or anything of the sort. this is also why i respect bands like napalm death, bolt thrower, and even machine head and god forbid so much - same sort of thing. in the words of the late, great, Paul Baloff (singer for Exodus), "it doesn't matter if 1 person comes or if a million people came: they'd still be fucking heavy!"
of course, anybody who knows anything about pantera can see i'm talking about the band post-vulgar displays, and certainly after 'cowboys...


drummer. machine :D
man if only you could see the video this song was recorded off - vinnie just owns those drums :P

there are a fair few easier-to-get-into pantera songs than that one, so kudos :)
No offense intended, but you are coming to the conclusion that "music you like"=metal.

There are fuzzy lines that seperate metal from otehr genres, the lines maybe fuzzy due to the nature of muscial hybridization, but there are lines. There may be metal influenced punk bands, and punk influenced thrash metal bands, but that doesn't mean you can go around calling all punk the same as metal.

No offense intended, but you are coming to the conclusion that "music you like"=metal.

There are fuzzy lines that seperate metal from otehr genres, the lines maybe fuzzy due to the nature of muscial hybridization, but there are lines. There may be metal influenced punk bands, and punk influenced thrash metal bands, but that doesn't mean you can go around calling all punk the same as metal.
not at all, but if you give metal a wide description, punk can be both what it is - punk - and metal, without any problems. in fact, i think you can see from that, such 'fuzzy lines' between the genres are taken into account, as (parts of) each genre can be the other, and visa versa - kinda like what you said :)

besides i was only using punk as an example

not at all, but if you give metal a wide description, punk can be both what it is - punk - and metal, without any problems. in fact, i think you can see from that, such 'fuzzy lines' between the genres are taken into account, as (parts of) each genre can be the other, and visa versa - kinda like what you said :)

besides i was only using punk as an example
No. Metal and Punk are two different genres. Theres a little bit of overlap, but its on the edges. There are very few bands that can be considered both as metal and punk. VERY VERY few.

No. Metal and Punk are two different genres. Theres a little bit of overlap, but its on the edges. There are very few bands that can be considered both as metal and punk. VERY VERY few.
depends how one defines each genre ;)

music aside, the message and/or attitude in punk is often similar to that of a lot of metal. as you said, a fair bit of punk is influenced by metal, and quite a lot of metal was influenced by punk. plus, there's a fair bit of actual overlap, too. hence i think its fair to say that while the two are indeed different genres, quite a lot of punk - especially with regard to the attitude/message thing - could be doubly classed as a form of metal in the all-embracingly wide descripton of metal i gave earlier.


you could try to debate this further, but frankly i don't care enough to do so. as a result, should you care to argue further, i concede by default as i'm now going to sleep :P

depends how one defines each genre ;)

music aside, the message and/or attitude in punk is often similar to that of a lot of metal. as you said, a fair bit of punk is influenced by metal, and quite a lot of metal was influenced by punk. plus, there's a fair bit of actual overlap, too. hence i think its fair to say that while the two are indeed different genres, quite a lot of punk - especially with regard to the attitude/message thing - could be doubly classed as a form of metal in the all-embracingly wide descripton of metal i gave earlier.


you could try to debate this further, but frankly i don't care enough to do so. as a result, should you care to argue further, i concede by default as i'm now going to sleep :P
This is your opinion. Unfortunately there are a lot more people who would disagree with you. Genres aren't individually "subjective", they need plenty of support--otherwise there'd be no point to them.

There's a reason why metal and punk are two different genres. People may say, "Hey check out this punk band." Now if this band turns out to be Dream Theater, something is seriously wrong. Because if this person who was reccommended that band likes punk, and hates prog rock/prog metal, he's going to say "WTF!"

Thats why we have genres in the first place. I mean you can refer to everything as "music", but thats hardly helpful when someone is looking for jazz and you give them rapper.

Albiet in a subgenre, Sonata arctica gets some points here.

Albiet a subgenre, Sonata arctica gets some points here.
???:confused:

???:confused:

Edited... Im an idiot, I know

Early Husker Du can be considered a form of Metal... Listen to "Land Speed Record" and "Metal Circus", and you'll see what I mean.
IMO, Husker Du would be more punk than metal. I think if I had to draw a line between the two, I would say that punk tends to put more emphasis on the energy side and less on the rhythm. That and most metal you can understand the lyrics without having to resort to reading the booklet that comes with the CD.

That being said, I don't know how one could come up with either punk or metal from "The Baby Song" off of Flip Your Wig

I've never heard Pantera!

http://home.comcast.net/~emailsforpay/rockZ/M_R/pantera.html

Now go forth and buy. :p

PM is right about them. They're not about image, it's just raw music.

Napalm Death (grindcore)


Have you heard Cathedral before? It's the singer from Napalm Death, but he moved away from grindcore and began playing Doom/Stoner. I think they rule. :)

Thats why we have genres in the first place. I mean you can refer to everything as "music", but thats hardly helpful when someone is looking for jazz and you give them rapper.

But they're only loose groupings, really. You might be able to find a few bands, or more likely albums, that only fit a single genre tag, but most bands fit many different ones. Added to that is the fact that few if any people have tastes that sit solely at the core of a single genre, and genres aren't so great.

As an example, somebody who calls themselves a punk fan might enjoy early Metallica (given that Metallica took a fair bit of influence from punk) despite the fact that Metallica are not a punk band. Genres really are more like guidelines than hard and fast rules.

Have you heard Cathedral before? It's the singer from Napalm Death, but he moved away from grindcore and began playing Doom/Stoner. I think they rule. :)
yeah Cathedral are amazing - really want to get some of their stuff cos i only heard a few songs. there's no point searching on limewire for em unless you like choir music btw :p :(



edit: shouldn't have spoken so soon - just ordered their latest album off amazon :D

I agree with the people who have pointed out that defining a band as metal depends mostly on whether or not the focus of their music is on guitar riffs. It's easy to hear the difference if you listen. For example if you listen to the Song "Walk" by Pantera, it starts out with a strong guitar part and basic drum line, and the vocals share the spotlight with the guitar.

This is why in my opinion, nu-metal bands like Linkin Park, Korn, Limp Bizkit Slipknot and System of a Down should not be considered metal in the same sense that others .


Nu Metal
snip
Style
Themes
Specifically, lyrics of most nu-metal bands reflect on the stresses and mishaps of everyday life. Topics range from childhood alienation or abuse, socio-economic status and relationship/marital difficulties. Homophobia and sexual themes has appeared in some lyrics as well.

Drug use, particularly marijuana and heroin, is also touched upon, but usually in more celebratory or sarcastic manner. There is usually a fine line drawn, as a few prominent singers (and sometimes other band members) admitted to extremely hardcore drug addiction in the past and use music as "therapy" to denounce their days before recovery.

Political progressivism and activism is a less common item, but still noticeable in many nu-metal bands, especially those that either influenced or started the genre in the late 1980s/early 1990s (most notably Rage Against the Machine). More often, this is usually discussed candidly rather than in songs.

Vocals

In the 1990s, many bands began to mix rapping and other new techniques with Heavy Metal & Alternative rock guitar and drum sounds. As a result, fans and music journalists needed to differentiate between the more traditional heavy metal music and this "new breed" of bands who were using samples, DJs, raps and drum machines in a way that made their music distinct. "New metal" evolved into the trendier spelling "nu metal," and a genre was vaguely defined.

Nevertheless, some distinction is usually maintained between rapcore and nu metal. Rapcore generally refers to a combination of singing, screaming, and/or rapping (for example, the vocals of Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park). Furthermore, some nu metal artists use no rapping at all. Other typical vocals are clean singing and Traditonal Metal Singing

Tool has been a recognizable origin for some nu-metal vocal styles, if not nu-metal in general. Although dedicated fans distance the band as "different" and "progressive" compared to other popular rock acts, Chevelle's Pete Loeffler, Taproot's Stephen Richards and even Limp Bizkit's Fred Durst have cited Maynard James Keenan's signature "drone" style as an influence.

A similar nu-metal style often confused for rap vocals is "spoken lyrics", usually off-key or in a free-styled form. It is unclear as to whether this is on purpose, however, Zack de la Rocha of Rage Against The Machine, Mike Patton of Faith No More, and (also at present) Anthony Kiedis of Red Hot Chili Peppers used a spoken word-form of singing a lot, which is likely the missing link to nu-metal's affiliation to rap and hip hop.

Guitar
While metal is very much guitar-based, with intricate guitar solos and complex riffs forming an important part of most songs, nu metal generally emphasizes the guitar as a rhythmic instrument. The riffs often consist of only a few different simplistic notes or power chords played in rhythmic, syncopated patterns. To emphasize this rhythmic "pulse," nu metal guitarists generally make liberal use of palm muting, a technique which itself blurs the boundary between melodic note and rhythmic attack. Another common tactic is the use of de-tuned strings (in drop-D or lower, sometimes adding a seventh string) whose lower pitch creates a thicker, more resonant sound. Finally, many nu metal guitarists seem to be fond of natural harmonics. The opening riff of Linkin Park's "One Step Closer" is a representative example of many of the above techniques. Guitar solos are generally not part of nu-metal songwriting, though there are exceptions, such as Adema, Saliva and System of a Down. They are usually very short. Helmet have been cited as one of the biggest nu metal guitar influences, along with Prong and Fear Factory. These bands, however, are not nu metal bands.

Bass
The speed and skill of a bassist in Traditional Heavy Metal plays a large part of outcome in the band's sound, complementing percussive tempos (and occasionally the guitar riffs) to add a strong rhythm to the tone.

In nu-metal, however, the bass is often the star, with guitar work only acting as a sample in the case for more "hip-hop geared" nu-metal.

Although the nu-metal "bass line" is hard to classify, the "slap style" style made popular by Michael Balzary, Billy Gould and Les Claypool would be forefront in the styles of latterday bassists like Reginald Arvizu, Fluff! and Sam Rivers, who would follow in becoming influences themselves.

The nu-metal bass is also slower than tradional heavy metal, strutting a funkier louder sound that would arguably compete with the presence of the band's vocalist.

Drums
Nu-metal drummers usually consist of basic 4/4 beats (some say this could be from the hip-hop influence) but often reach beyond traditional heavy metal patterns for more syncopated beats, such as Eastern dance rhythms (as played by John Dolmayan of System of a Down), jazz drumming, and the complex breakbeats of hip-hop. Also, many notable nu-metal bands feature a DJ who provides sampled "beats" and other effects. Two of the more famous nu-metal DJs are DJ Lethal of Limp Bizkit and Joe Hahn of Linkin Park.

Quick note, System of a Down is NOT nu-metal. System Of A Down are popular yes, and a lot of mallcore idiots listen to it, but that doesn't automatically make them nu-metal. For example, I've never heard Serj rap. Shavo certainly isn't the "star" of the band as he's a pretty mediocre bassist, John uses some rather interesting drum rhythms at times and Daron's guitar work does tend to dominate at times. It's not pure metal no, it's definetly alternative though. Nu-metal is not something I'd call them at all.

Simply defined, "Metal" is any form of music that can make...

THIS (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/Delator/0572888c.jpg)

Do...

THIS (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/Delator/3f4193d4.jpg)

:D

Initially, I would say that metal is a form of rock music completely devoid of blues. This is why Black Sabbath is metal, but Led Zeppelin is not.

This doesn't mean that no metal nowadays is blues-heavy, just the initial metal.

I wouldn't say that metal relies on distorted guitars - power metal certainly doesn't.

THIS IS METAL!!!!!! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal)

But they're only loose groupings, really. You might be able to find a few bands, or more likely albums, that only fit a single genre tag, but most bands fit many different ones. Added to that is the fact that few if any people have tastes that sit solely at the core of a single genre, and genres aren't so great.

As an example, somebody who calls themselves a punk fan might enjoy early Metallica (given that Metallica took a fair bit of influence from punk) despite the fact that Metallica are not a punk band. Genres really are more like guidelines than hard and fast rules.

Ok guidelines or no. I don't care how you look at genres, but they are there and thre for a reason. I'm just tired of this "don't label this, that, me" complex that plagues the majority of people my age.

The facts are they are generally specific guidelines and the majority of bands do fall into ONE SPECIFIC genre. It's just people don't want to learn what specifically differentiates one genre from another, so they fall back on the "subjectivity of music" arguement to defend their intellectual prowess in musical knowledge.

Quick note, System of a Down is NOT nu-metal. System Of A Down are popular yes, and a lot of mallcore idiots listen to it, but that doesn't automatically make them nu-metal. For example, I've never heard Serj rap. Shavo certainly isn't the "star" of the band as he's a pretty mediocre bassist, John uses some rather interesting drum rhythms at times and Daron's guitar work does tend to dominate at times. It's not pure metal no, it's definetly alternative though. Nu-metal is not something I'd call them at all.
No it's still nu-metal. Don't get me wrong I like SOAD--one of the few nu-metal bands I like, but they are very much nu-metal. They may not be typical nu-metal, but they are still within the boundries of nu-metal. Despite everything most if not all of their songs are generally rhythmical guitar-wise, and Serj's vocals have sometimes gotten close to "rapping", though they do experiment. They're still nu-metal though.

Albiet in a subgenre, Sonata arctica gets some points here.
They are doing nothing new but they are very good at the power metal formula and I enjoy them. Do you like Blind Guardian? They are the best power metal band.

Initially, I would say that metal is a form of rock music completely devoid of blues. This is why Black Sabbath is metal, but Led Zeppelin is not.
Black Sabbath was very blues-heavy. In fact they proclaimed themselves to be a "heavy blues" band.

I think 'metal' is impossible to classify without a little bit of subgenres, however, I won't go crazy.
I usually classify metal as 'power metal' 'heavy metal' or 'nu metal'. Power metal is anything that encorporates a lot of harmony. The lyrics usually have fantasy themes, but they don't have to. Some examples of power metal would be Blind Guardian or Stratovarius. Heavy metal is very broad. It is basically anything with 'hard' sounding guitars, vocals, or drums. That pretty much includes everything from Iron Maiden, to Death, to Slayer. Like I said, very broad. Nu metal involves drum banging, chords, unharmonious vocals and even rap in some cases. The lyrical content is usually more angsty and less 'cheesy'. Bands like Slipknot fall under this category.

That is just how I look at metal. It is impossible to define the entire genre, because some styles are very thrashy and punky, while others have classical influences.

So, what would you say it is that makes nu-metal not actually metal?To paraphrase Barney Greenway of Napalm Death: "Nu-metal is pop music with heavy guitars conveniently placed on top."

Have you heard of Death? (many people haven't even heard of them) I know, which is odd to me, considering they're one of the top 10 metal bands.

Black Sabbath was very blues-heavy. In fact they proclaimed themselves to be a "heavy blues" band.Really? I've never heard this.

Initially, I would say that metal is a form of rock music completely devoid of blues. This is why Black Sabbath is metal, but Led Zeppelin is not.

This doesn't mean that no metal nowadays is blues-heavy, just the initial metal.

I wouldn't say that metal relies on distorted guitars - power metal certainly doesn't.


Actually, a number of Sabbath tunes are pretty much sped up 12 bar blues tunes.

This is coming from a Sabbath fan.

The only thing that seperates Sabbath and Zeppelin, are blues vs doom and gloom, and the dliberate de-tuning a half a step lower, for the bigger, crunchier, doom inspiring guitars, Iommi is known for.

Zep never tried to be metal.

Sabbath invented it.

Actually, a number of Sabbath tunes are pretty much sped up 12 bar blues tunes.

This is coming from a Sabbath fan.

The only thing that seperates Sabbath and Zeppelin, are blues vs doom and gloom, and the dliberate de-tuning a half a step lower, for the bigger, crunchier, doom inspiring guitars, Iommi is known for.

Zep never tried to be metal.

Sabbath invented it.

Actually, sometimes Sabbath tunes are 12 bare blues slowed down

Here's a huge list of Metal bands, with some quick guides to its subgenres: http://www.bnrmetal.com/

Metal is an aggressive, usually/often dark style of rock music that often features a lot of technicality. It is not usually chord based, but scale based. Meaning, that the musicians play "riffs" built from notes in scales, rather than strumming chords to support a singer. There are usually vocals, but they are not usually as prominant as in other forms of rock music, the music being centered more towards the instruments.

Subgenres include, but are not limited to: NWOBHM, doom metal, thrash metal, power metal, progressive metal (similar to progressive rock, but heavier), black metal, death metal

I'm sure Wikipedia has an article on it either under "metal" or "heavy metal."
I usually think of the phrase "metal" being a shortened form of "heavy metal," but many disagree on this.

I don't like to split music into strict categories, but some people do. Tell me what is "metal", what isn't, and why.

DISCLAIMER:
By posting a reply that states that a certain type of music is "shit", "shite" or suchlike, you agree that you are a retard.

lol, I don't have any opinions on metal, but I like your disclaimer :p

Ok guidelines or no. I don't care how you look at genres, but they are there and thre for a reason. I'm just tired of this "don't label this, that, me" complex that plagues the majority of people my age.

The facts are they are generally specific guidelines and the majority of bands do fall into ONE SPECIFIC genre. It's just people don't want to learn what specifically differentiates one genre from another, so they fall back on the "subjectivity of music" arguement to defend their intellectual prowess in musical knowledge.

"One specific genre" depends on how broad you make that genre. Usually you end up with such a broad classification that it tells you nothing (like saying some band is a "rock band". Tells you nearly nothing about their music/attitude/style). Another use of genres just seems to be so people can run around being musical snobs (usually, these are angry teenagers/stupid people) who declare that you can't listen to, say, Pennywise because you also listen to Iron Maiden (man was that a fun day:rolleyes: ) And I'll freely admit that another reason I don't like labelling music through very specific genres is because I don't know and don't really want to know if what I'm listening to counts as prog, power, thrash or speed metal. It's just not important to me, and I'm not sure it works.

I don't like to split music into strict categories, but some people do. Tell me what is "metal", what isn't, and why.

DISCLAIMER:
By posting a reply that states that a certain type of music is "shit", "shite" or suchlike, you agree that you are a retard.
Fine I think you are Shite.

It is difficult to define 'metal' as a whole because there are so many different subgenres. The general, imo rather vague, definition is : a form of rock music charactarized by agressive, driving rhytmns with amplified, distorted and often downtuned guitars.
The first 'real' metal band would be Black Sabbath, as allmost all their songs would fit this deffinition. Unlike Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple (and others) who have a few songs that could be labbeled metal, but the rest are generally hardrock or bluesrock.

The oldest of the metal subgenres, originating in the 70's, is called 'Heavy Metal'. The name comes from the lyrics from the Steppenwolf song 'born to be wild'. It is bassicly blues rock on steroids with some classical arrangements thrown in the mix. Lyrical themes range from everyday life over history to legends and myths. The most well known bands are Black Sabbath and Van Halen. In the late 70's in the UK Six Pistols' style punkrock slightly influenced heavy metal, resulting in the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM). With Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Saxon being it's most famous advocates.

In the 80's two completely different styles develloped (mostly in the US), namely thrash (mind the first H as it is often misspelled as trash) and glamrock.

Glamrock or 'hairmetal' is metal going through it's 'pop' stage. If you want to know why it's called hairmetal, look at some pictures of bands like
Poison, Mötley Crüe and Twisted Sister.

Thrash takes metal to the next level of speed and agression. It’s heavily influenced by the punkscene with harsh, proclaiming lyrics and a vocal style to match; fast, double base drum rhytms and staccato riffs on guitar. It originates mostly from the San Fransisco bay area. Most wellknown bands are: Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer. The European thrash scene centers mostly on Germany with Kreator, Destrucion and Sodom being the 'Big Three'. Why it's called thrash? Go see a concert of one of the above bands and go stand in the front row, and try to get through the concert alive ;)

Death metal evolved from Thrash, taking the extreme to the extreme. Technical, fast rhytmical patterns and 'blast beats' on drums; downtuned bass guitars; technical, low and extremly 'heavy' guitar riffs and a deep, guttural vocal style called 'grunts' define this genre. Drastical, accute tempo changes often occur during the songs. The brutal style evolved in the US and the UK. Obituary, Entombed, Death are some bands that come to mind. The Scandinavian style is more melodic and is called Gothenburg metal (after the place of orrigin in Sweden). At the Gates, In Flames and more recently Arch Enemy and Soilwork are examples of this. Lyrical themes are mostly things like death, killing, Satanism, ...

Black metal is the second subgenre sprouting fort from thrash. It evolved mainly in Scandinavia and is characterised by (really) fast, agressive drums; relativly simple, repetitve guitar riffs; high pitched , screeching vocals. Classical arrangements play an important role in this genre. Also, according to most ‘true’ black metal fans, a black metal band must by definition have satanic, pagan or anti-religious lyrics in order to be called black metal. Bands sounding like black metal but having Christian influenced lyrics (e.g. Graveworm) are mostly not accepted as being black metal. Black metal originated in the late 80’s from bands like Venom , Mercyful Fate and Slayer (musicly speaking none of those are real black metal bands, but they created the mindset from wich black metal came fort.) Some of the first real black bands are Bathory, Celtic Frost and Mayhem. In the 90’s a so called second ‘wave of black metal’ emerged in Europe with bands like Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth and Emperor placing the classical influences on the forefront, adding layers of keyboards. The genre is named after Venoms’ album ‘Black Metal’.

Speed metal is often confused with thrash. You can say that all thrash is speed metal, but not all speed metal is thrash. It is not a real defined genre by itself, but it can be discribed as ‘Heavy metal played fast’. So it groupes a lot of bands that at first glance don’t have that much in common e.g.: Judas Priest, Motörhead and Venom. All these bands are quite different from each other and none of them are thrash. Priest is a product from the nwobhm movement, Motörhead is a mixture of heavy metal, punk and rock’n roll, and Venom is one of the forefathers of the extreme metal scène. What most speed bands have in common is a lot of fast twin guitar riffing and long spun out guitar solo’s.

Power Metal is a late 1980’s evolution of 70’s heavy metal. It adds more speed and more melody to the equition( so it’s a type of speed metal). Typical for the genre are multi layered vocal harmonics, sung by a high-pitched ‘clean’ singer. The lyrical themes are history, sci-fi and fantasy. The genre was pioneered by Helloween. Other good power bands are Blind Guardian, Sonata Arctica and Manowar (they should come with a warning sticker: EXTRA CHEESY).

Progressive metal is the metal version of progressive rock, taking the metal music to its technical limits. Influences from other ‘technical genres’ like jazz can be mixed with the metal basis. Dream Theater, Savatage and Queensrÿche are som examples

Nu-metal typically combines aggressive, hip hop influenced, angst-ridden vocals; samples, rap-style beats and drum set patterns and/or DJ techniques. Guitars are often used as purely rhytmic instruments with simple, low tuned riffs and solo’s are noticed by their absence.

There are far more subgenres and subgenres of subgenres, not even to mention the crossover genres, but these are the main ones.

This post is a bit lengthy and my english is quite limited, so I hope it is uderstandable ;)

*snip*

There are far more subgenres and subgenres of subgenres, not even to mention the crossover genres, but these are the main ones.

This post is a bit lengthy and my english is quite limited, so I hope it is uderstandable ;)

Excellent post. I think it was just the right length (though too long to be quoted) and I would disagree that your English is limited. :)

Heavier than I can handle, much to heavy, and often the lyrics truly have no meaning

It's simple: metal is crap.

EDIT: So, I'm a retard. But it had to be said.

Heavier than I can handle, much to heavy, and often the lyrics truly have no meaning
You obviously haven't heard all that much metal. First band which springs to mind is Opeth (http://lyrics.rockmagic.net/lyrics/opeth/orchid_1995.html). I'm not sure their exact categorisation but they're included in the whole metal scene I'm sure.

And Raharna, that was a great post. I dislike the obsessive need some people have to define genres and defend why their metal band is "real" metal. But your post was simply informative and sounded like an educated description of various types of metal, without being elitist or obsessive.

The lines of genres are too blurred, peoples opinions are too subjective and it really isn't at all important - it's only use is for reccomending and describing bands and for that, simply saying it's a certain genre is fairly useless anyway.

I used to care about this kind of thing but music is there to be experienced individually, and to be enjoyed. You don't need to make sure a band is metal before you can listen to it; it won't "taint" you. You can like a range of music, appreciating different talents and just enjoying the diversity out there.

It's simple: metal is crap.
It's simple: you're wrong.

See how easy it is? Now, could you explain what you mean by "crap" and why you think every band that plays metal-related music is "crap?

It's simple: metal is crap.

EDIT: So, I'm a retard. But it had to be said.

Haha! I'm not sure I even want to know what "music" you like!

It's simple: you're wrong.

See how easy it is? Now, could you explain what you mean by "crap" and why you think every band that plays metal-related music is "crap?
It's simple: I don't like them, and I do like rock music (grunge; punk - The Clash to The Pixies, not the Pistols or the Exploited - so, only intelectually crafted and/or socially minded punk; 80s and 90s alternative). Beyond that, I think that metal is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho. (That is my more objective analysis, if I'm asked to look into artistic characteristics.)

But don't listen to me. According to the original poster, I'm a retard.

It's simple: I don't like them, and I do like rock music (grunge; punk - The Clash to The Pixies, not the Pistols or the Exploited - so, only intelectually crafted and/or socially minded punk; 80s and 90s alternative). Beyond that, I think that metal is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho. (That is my more objective analysis, if I'm asked to look into artistic characteristics.)

But don't listen to me. According to the original poster, I'm a retard.

Just curious, have you actually ever listened to Black Sabbath?

Just curious, have you actually ever listened to Black Sabbath?
Yes, I have (and I am aware they inflenced Nirvana, but that's like saying: "I'm a Muslim, Islam mentions Jesus, so I'd better become a Christian").
I think that Black Sabbath is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho. And Ozzy Osbourne is an idiot.

Yes, I have (and I am aware they inflenced Nirvana, but that's like saying: "I'm a Muslim, Islam mentions Jesus, so I'd better become a Christian").
I think that Black Sabbath is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho. And Ozzy Osbourne is an idiot.

You seem like a very angry individual. Have some kind of metal-related childhood trauma?

You can like a range of music, appreciating different talents and just enjoying the diversity out there.

Indeed, lets fly the flag of equality in all aspects, and enjoy the modern world for its diversity. :rolleyes:

You seem like a very angry individual. Have some kind of metal-related childhood trauma?
No, I have taste.

No, I have taste.

Such as?

No, I have taste.

And I suppose everyone who likes different genres of music to you doesn't? Awfully convenient for you.

Yes, I have (and I am aware they inflenced Nirvana, but that's like saying: "I'm a Muslim, Islam mentions Jesus, so I'd better become a Christian").
I think that Black Sabbath is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho. And Ozzy Osbourne is an idiot.

Ozzy wasn't so big of an idiot back then because his brain still worked. It's only now after all the drugs that he can't form a coherent sentence.

Such as?
Post 72.
And I suppose everyone who likes different genres of music to you doesn't? Awfully convenient for you.
Yes, isn't it?
Ozzy wasn't so big of an idiot back then because his brain still worked. It's only now after all the drugs that he can't form a coherent sentence.
You're right: he wasn't "so big an idiot". Just a regular one.

Indeed, lets fly the flag of equality in all aspects, and enjoy the modern world for its diversity. :rolleyes:
:p this may be flamebait but you are a retard... glitziness is right. if you're too narrow minded to accept that then i'm afraid the retard moniker sticks :rolleyes:

Indeed, lets fly the flag of equality in all aspects, and enjoy the modern world for its diversity. :rolleyes:
I never said all music was equal. Plenty of "bands" I think are utter shit. But I won't dismiss them simply because they're a certain genre.

All I'm saying is that you can like different types of music. For example, you can appreciate the vocal talents of soul, the technical talent of metal, the emotion-provoking talent of blues.... etc etc. You can appreciate that they're all different talents, some which may be of no personal interest to you but they're talents nonetheless. You can acknowledge differences and enjoy different things.

You don't have to like every band out there and you don't have to like every genre. But can you not see that genres or bands you don't like may still be talented? Can you not see that there are different qualities to different types of music?

I just think people who stick to a certain genre to try and keep an image are, quite frankly, pretty pathetic and also missing out tremendously. What exactly is wrong with diversity or having a broad taste?

What exactly is wrong with diversity or having a broad taste?

Indeed. I have a pretty broad taste. There are some genres that sound "all the same" to me, but I know that's only because I'm unfamiliar with them - other people would notice the subtleties I don't, but not be able to appreciate music I like.

It's simple: metal is crap.

EDIT: So, I'm a retard. But it had to be said.

No, you're not a retard. That would be unfair to retards. ;D You sir, are a prick.

Anyway, I really don't understand why you felt the need to come and post on a thread that's totally irrelevant to you. I mean, really, it's just a real asshole thing to do. And it's completely unnecessary.

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it crap. I don't like seafood, but that doesn't mean seafood is crap. I don't like most modern jazz, but that doesn't mean that it's crap. I don't like most of the music you posted that you enjoy, but that doesn't mean it's crap.

Again, I ask, why post on a thread about metal if you don't like metal? I wouldn't go posting on a thread about emo or something, it would be a waste of everyone's time, because I don't like most emo I've heard.

No, you're not a retard. That would be unfair to retards. ;D You sir, are a prick.

Anyway, I really don't understand why you felt the need to come and post on a thread that's totally irrelevant to you. I mean, really, it's just a real asshole thing to do. And it's completely unnecessary.

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it crap. I don't like seafood, but that doesn't mean seafood is crap. I don't like modern jazz, but that doesn't mean that it's crap. I don't like most of the music you posted that you enjoy, but that doesn't mean it's crap.

Again, I ask, why post on a thread about metal if you don't like metal? I wouldn't go posting on a thread about emo or something, it would be a waste of everyone's time.
And why are you posting this?

And why are you posting this?

Presumably a vain effort to educate you.

Presumably a vain effort to educate you.
Educate me? So, there are objective tastes, ones that can be taught and learned. You are either contradicting yourself, or Callisdrun.

And why are you posting this?

Because I do like a lot of metal bands, and I can't fathom any good reason for you to post on a thread about metal if you don't. Other than just to be an asshole, which to me is a bit sad.

Answer the damn question. Why do you feel the need to post on this thread, when you obviously have no interest whatsoever in any music that falls within the genre "metal"? Maybe you don't have an answer, other than you're just enjoy being a jerk to people for no reason other than a difference in what music we listen to. In that case, I feel bad for you. I really do.

-snip-
I answered because I believe my points about metal are objective (if objectionable). You see, that is reason enough. And stating that implies my (albeit limited) interest.
I was asked to provide a definition. I did, and I think it can apply.
Presumably, in a vain effort to educate you (I'm paraphrasing a smarter person than I).

this may be flamebait but you are a retard... glitziness is right. if you're too narrow minded to accept that then i'm afraid the retard moniker sticks
Enough of the name calling.


I answered because I believe my points about metal are objective (if objectionable). You see, that is reason enough. And stating that implies my (albeit limited) interest.
I was asked to provide a definition. I did, and I think it can apply.
Presumably, in a vain effort to educate you (I'm paraphrasing a smarter person than I).

This topic is specifically for those who like metal, and a discussion of metal bands. You don't like metal bands; therefore, your posts in here are not appreciated. I suggest you stop posting here.

This is metal:

http://www.metalblade.de/bt_player/

I just think people who stick to a certain genre to try and keep an image are, quite frankly, pretty pathetic and also missing out tremendously. What exactly is wrong with diversity or having a broad taste?

Pretty well said, I think. **gives you a round of applause**

Excellent post. I think it was just the right length (though too long to be quoted) and I would disagree that your English is limited. :)
Thank you :)

Heavier than I can handle, much to heavy, and often the lyrics truly have no meaning
I would replace 'often' with 'sometimes', and really, isn't that true for every genre? There are a lot of metal bands that write intelligent lyrics. Besides, metal is mostly not about lyrics but about the music. Generally the vocals are used as an extra instrument to add brutallity/melody (depends on genre) rather than as to actually say something.



And Raharna, that was a great post. I dislike the obsessive need some people have to define genres and defend why their metal band is "real" metal. But your post was simply informative and sounded like an educated description of various types of metal, without being elitist or obsessive.

The lines of genres are too blurred, peoples opinions are too subjective and it really isn't at all important - it's only use is for reccomending and describing bands and for that, simply saying it's a certain genre is fairly useless anyway.

I used to care about this kind of thing but music is there to be experienced individually, and to be enjoyed. You don't need to make sure a band is metal before you can listen to it; it won't "taint" you. You can like a range of music, appreciating different talents and just enjoying the diversity out there.
That was the intention, I hate that kind of people to :) My musical tastes include, but are not limited to: classical music, rock, blues, hard rock, some jazz, an odd pop band, and offcourse metal in all it's forms (except for black metal, I can't seem to find a band in black metal that i really like. Graveworm are quite good, but as I mentioned they don't seem to count as 'black' ;) )

Allthough I like to use some form of classification to keep some order in my cd/lp collection. (I order them alphabetticly and by genre) I'm not really a genre nut. Because the lines between genres are indeed very blurred and more often than not genres overlap. So I generally only use the main genres I described in my previous post. Although if you want me to, I can fill a couple of pages with describing most of the subgenres ;)

Opeth is an example of a band that I don't like to define by genre because it has so many influences. The ones that I hear the most to describe Opeth are: dark metal, death metal or just plain boring ;). If my live depened on it, I would call them Progressive metal with death influences. But it doesn't really mather because they just kick ass, whatever you want to call them.

Thank you :)
(except for black metal, I can't seem to find a band in black metal that i really like. Graveworm are quite good, but as I mentioned they don't seem to count as 'black' ;) )

They are actually melodic black metal. Which still is black metal. I must admit I prefer it to the "raw" bm. I think the only pure "raw" bm bands that I actually like are Carpathian Forest and Ancient Rites. Other bm I like tends to be melodic.

That was the intention, I hate that kind of people to :) My musical tastes include, but are not limited to: classical music, rock, blues, hard rock, some jazz, an odd pop band, and offcourse metal in all it's forms (except for black metal, I can't seem to find a band in black metal that i really like. Graveworm are quite good, but as I mentioned they don't seem to count as 'black' ;) )

Allthough I like to use some form of classification to keep some order in my cd/lp collection. (I order them alphabetticly and by genre) I'm not really a genre nut. Because the lines between genres are indeed very blurred and more often than not genres overlap. So I generally only use the main genres I described in my previous post. Although if you want me to, I can fill a couple of pages with describing most of the subgenres ;)


You don't like black metal? Darn, oh well. I actually play in a black metal band, but we don't have satanic/pagan lyrics. Graveworm I'd say are definitely black metal. Of course, the "tr00" black metal people might say that you have to have satanic lyrics to be black metal, but I'd say that the way music sounds is really a more useful way to identify it. To me, if it sounds like black metal, it is. Have you tried listening to later Emperor? A lot of people don't like their later stuff because it's well produced and very complex.

And yes, the lines between genres are usually very blurred. The only purpose to having genres is to give people a rough idea of what it sounds like, to compare it to other things like it that someone might have already heard.

Have you tried listening to later Emperor? A lot of people don't like their later stuff because it's well produced and very complex.

Hmm I've tried listening to some Emperor--probably odler Emperor, I've heard if on streaming radio and I don't particularly like it. It's the fact that they have their growls drown out the melody sometimes. Though of the most reknowned black metal, Emperor, Darkthrone, Immortal, I listened and found that pervasive, the growls do not complement the melody, but instead stand out awkwardly and drown out the guitars at times.

You don't like black metal? Darn, oh well. I actually play in a black metal band, but we don't have satanic/pagan lyrics. Graveworm I'd say are definitely black metal. Of course, the "tr00" black metal people might say that you have to have satanic lyrics to be black metal, but I'd say that the way music sounds is really a more useful way to identify it. To me, if it sounds like black metal, it is. Have you tried listening to later Emperor? A lot of people don't like their later stuff because it's well produced and very complex.

And yes, the lines between genres are usually very blurred. The only purpose to having genres is to give people a rough idea of what it sounds like, to compare it to other things like it that someone might have already heard.

Yes, I've hear early, middle and late Emperor, don't get me started... One of my best friends is a real 'tr00' 'kVlt' black metal nutcase (you know, the kind that likes bands more as the sound quallity of their records reaches new depths), and he made it his mission to make me see the light, or darkness rather. So he shoves a shitload of black bands down my troath everytime I go over at his place. Everything from Bathory to Kristalnacht (some totally unknown NSBM band). This way I know a lot about black metal although I almost never listen to it.
About Emperor: they aren't that bad, but not good enough that I would buy their records and listen to them.

I think Emperor is terrible. Its difficult to even make out the music because the quality of the recordings are so low. All of the instruments kind of meld together into this muffled noise. If you were to record a band with one of those PC mics that they sell for chatting, connected to an old 16 bit sound blaster, the quality you would get would be better than the equipment Emperor uses.

I think Emperor is terrible. Its difficult to even make out the music because the quality of the recordings are so low. All of the instruments kind of meld together into this muffled noise.
That's done on purpose to create a 'wall of sound' effect.

That's done on purpose to create a 'wall of sound' effect.

I know, which is why I say Emperor sucks rather than their studio sucks. They did it on purpose, this is the way they want their "music" to sound. Its terrible. Phil Anselmo did the same thing with his "Viking Crown" project and it sounded like crap.

Yes, I've hear early, middle and late Emperor, don't get me started... One of my best friends is a real 'tr00' 'kVlt' black metal nutcase (you know, the kind that likes bands more as the sound quallity of their records reaches new depths), and he made it his mission to make me see the light, or darkness rather. So he shoves a shitload of black bands down my troath everytime I go over at his place. Everything from Bathory to Kristalnacht (some totally unknown NSBM band). This way I know a lot about black metal although I almost never listen to it.
About Emperor: they aren't that bad, but not good enough that I would buy their records and listen to them.
Does he wear corpse paint to black metal gigs?

Does he wear corpse paint to black metal gigs?
No, he thinks it's gay for fans to wear corpse paint to gigs. He really is a strange young man ... but he's a lot of fun to hang out with so I tollerate his weirdness ;) He probably thinks the same way about me.

Beyond that, I think that metal is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho.

That definition of metal only fits 1 band: Manowar. They still are great fun to listen to though ;)

I think Emperor is terrible. Its difficult to even make out the music because the quality of the recordings are so low. All of the instruments kind of meld together into this muffled noise. If you were to record a band with one of those PC mics that they sell for chatting, connected to an old 16 bit sound blaster, the quality you would get would be better than the equipment Emperor uses.

Obviously, you have never heard late period Emperor. The sound quality on their last album was superb.

Most early black metal has really bad recording quality, and that fact kept me from getting into the genre for the longest times.

Yes, I've hear early, middle and late Emperor, don't get me started... One of my best friends is a real 'tr00' 'kVlt' black metal nutcase (you know, the kind that likes bands more as the sound quallity of their records reaches new depths), and he made it his mission to make me see the light, or darkness rather. So he shoves a shitload of black bands down my troath everytime I go over at his place. Everything from Bathory to Kristalnacht (some totally unknown NSBM band). This way I know a lot about black metal although I almost never listen to it.
About Emperor: they aren't that bad, but not good enough that I would buy their records and listen to them.

"Tr00" and "kvlt" black metal people generally can't stand late period Emperor because the sound is too good. Personally, their my favorite band, though their early stuff is unfortunately quite hampered by the bad production.

They are doing nothing new but they are very good at the power metal formula and I enjoy them. Do you like Blind Guardian? They are the best power metal band.

They are defidentally good, but if for no other reason, I like sonata better for their singer. But between say, blind guardian and stratovarius, its a pretty close fight(and strat is right below sonata for me).

Even walking down the street to mail a letter is an epic quest if you're listening to Blind Guardian. :)

Me and my friends always had this saying: "Don't worry, you're not a nerd if you listen to Blind Guardian. You're only a nerd if you're actually IN Blind Guardian."

They're so awesome though.

Even walking down the street to mail a letter is an epic quest if you're listening to Blind Guardian. :)

Me and my friends always had this saying: "Don't worry, you're not a nerd if you listen to Blind Guardian. You're only a nerd if you're actually IN Blind Guardian."

They're so awesome though.
Blind Guardian are my favourite band! (Savatage is a real close second though.)
I actually know all the lyrics of all the songs from 'the Imaginations from the other side' album by heart. (-> that's the correct expression, right?) That kind off makes me a nerd, no? I didn't actually studied them offcourse, I just listened to the album that often.

Blind Guardian are my favourite band! (Savatage is a real close second though.)
I actually know all the lyrics of all the songs from 'the Imaginations from the other side' album by heart. (-> that's the correct expression, right?) That kind off makes me a nerd, no? I didn't actually studied them offcourse, I just listened to the album that often.
:p very good
blind guardian come up with the best songs... i forget which album its on now (possibly Nightfall...), but have you heard their classic "I am lost in the black chAmber..."
all these german metal bands can't escape the awesome accent :p


Phil Anselmo did the same thing with his "Viking Crown" project and it sounded like crap.
and then he went and produced Crowbar, who pwn, so that makes it all ok again :)


ps: annoyed at amazon today: bought that Cathedral album like 2 days ago and its still not here (usually get it next day :mad: )

:p very good
blind guardian come up with the best songs... i forget which album its on now (possibly Nightfall...), but have you heard their classic "I am lost in the black chAmber..."
all these german metal bands can't escape the awesome accent :p

lol, The first time I heard the black chamber, I couldn't make out what he was singing because of that awfull pronounciation of chamber. Great song though.

metal is the stuff you get in wires. it goes by different names, steel for example

metal is the stuff you get in wires. it goes by different names, steel for example
har har ... that joke (if you can call it that) is only made like 5 times in this tread already ...:rolleyes:
We are not amused.

Black Sabbath is metal.

They did it first, and better than anyone since.

We are not amused.
off with his head!

It's simple: I don't like them, and I do like rock music (grunge; punk - The Clash to The Pixies, not the Pistols or the Exploited - so, only intelectually crafted and/or socially minded punk; 80s and 90s alternative). Beyond that, I think that metal is obvious in intent, mentally numb(ing), creatively incoherent, kitschy and macho. (That is my more objective analysis, if I'm asked to look into artistic characteristics.)
If you like grunge, then presumably you like the Melvins, right?

This is metal:

http://www.metalblade.de/bt_player/Ooh a new Bolt Thrower album.

/snipI'd suggest you get your metal from centurymedia.com

Black Sabbath is metal.

They did it first, and better than anyone since.Don't be silly, they're not even the best doom metal band.

As far as black metal goes, I'd say Cradle of Filth is the best black metal band.

Don't be silly, they're not even the best doom metal band.

As far as black metal goes, I'd say Cradle of Filth is the best black metal band.


Youre kidding , right?

Guitars done by the guy who invented the heavy-metal sound, and has been openly emulated by nearly every metal guitarist since?

Drums, by one of rock and rolls best drummers, who is nearly on par with guys like Moon, and Bonham?
(they were better time-keepers than Bill Ward was, He even admits to this)

Bass done by Geezer Butler, who not only wrote most of Sabbaths lyrics, but is about as good at his intruments as his idols, John Entwhistle, and Paul McCartney.

..and of course...Ozzy....while clearly the least talented of the group, nontheless became one of metals most distinguished vocalists.

...and you think the screeching, annoying, terribly un-original sound of Cradle of Filth is better?

We obviously have vastly different tastes in music, most notably in your name.
I like the 'Kennedy's lyrics, but Biafra's vocals get on me nerves.

Regardless, you really cant put Sabbath and Cradle of Filth, especially them in the same category.

Metal is a more complicated form of rock that originally was characterized by neo-classicism but would eventually split into many more subgenres some like black metal actually going into minimalism. However, it is the concentration on guitar riffage that distinguishes metal from non-metal. Though instrumental solos are common in metal they are not necessarily distinctive charecteristcs.

Thats the best definition I can give, really. I would add to that that metal is generally characterised by a strong beat. Death metal and its ilk tends to change rhythms rapidly and have syncopated drum rhythms.
In metal, the music is often modal.

Worship teh music n3rd.;)

Pretty well said, I think. **gives you a round of applause**
*curtseys* Why thank you :p

My musical tastes include, but are not limited to: classical music, rock, blues, hard rock, some jazz, an odd pop band, and of course metal in all it's forms That's pretty similar to my taste, though I'm not limited to those genres either - I love soul and some singer/songwriters.

Opeth is an example of a band that I don't like to define by genre because it has so many influences. The ones that I hear the most to describe Opeth are: dark metal, death metal or just plain boring ;). If my live depened on it, I would call them Progressive metal with death influences.
That's pretty much what I'd say. I've heard them called Extreme Prog Metal as well. It's hard to define, also, because their music varies so much. It's one of the things I love about them.

But it doesn't really mather because they just kick ass, whatever you want to call them.
Very true, heh ;)

Blind Guardian are my favourite band! (Savatage is a real close second though.)
I actually know all the lyrics of all the songs from 'the Imaginations from the other side' album by heart. (-> that's the correct expression, right?) That kind off makes me a nerd, no? I didn't actually studied them offcourse, I just listened to the album that often.
What's your favourite lyric? I often find myself singing

Wash away the blood on my hands (my father's blood)

As far as black metal goes, I'd say Cradle of Filth is the best black metal band.
lol, how many black metal bands have you actually heard?

I've never heard Pantera!
OMG:
The Free Lands of Pantera is a massive, environmentally stunning nation, renowned for its absence of drug laws. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 6.007 billion are ruled by a mostly-benevolent dictator, who grants the populace the freedom to live their own lives but watches carefully for anyone to slip up.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, corrupt government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Defence, Law & Order, and Commerce. The average income tax rate is 100%. A powerhouse of a private sector is dominated by the Automobile Manufacturing industry.

Notable individuals are granted land and titles, a nation-wide cull of Shadow Cats is in effect, the nation has recently been attributed to the funding of terrorist organisations, and the nation's massive battleships are often mistaken for islands. Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Pantera's national animal is the Shadow Cat, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the Allied Credit.



There aslo a class band.

lol, how many black metal bands have you actually heard?
Besides, hasn't CoF been declared as "goth metal" by a majority of black-metallers?

As far as black metal goes, I'd say Cradle of Filth is the best black metal band.
*Brings out rusty knife* Take it back...

That's pretty much what I'd say. I've heard them called Extreme Prog Metal as well. It's hard to define, also, because their music varies so much. It's one of the things I love about them.

I wasn't gonna say anything, but... seriously it's starting to get to me. Way too many people like Opeth. That said a lot of people hate Opeth.

I fit in neither category, and what vexes me is why people are so polarized about Opeth.

I personally see Opeth has talent, and they have a couple good songs, but one thing that I find unbearable about their music, is that they insist on trying a whole bunch of riffs and probably never listening to them. I mean I like riff variety, but when they actually sound good and fit into the scope of the song. But no, Opeth don't want to play that way. They throw in everything and then they try to make their songs as long as possible.

For some bands it works. Moonsorrow did it adeptly well with their 20 minutes "songs". For Opeth... no. They have to realize it and stop shoving in a bunch of shitty riffs around a couple of really good ones. And stop making their songs so long when they obviously can't make a long song good. Then I'd listen to them, because seriously, I don't have the patience of listening through boring crappy riffs to get to some of the better ones.

But that said, they do have talent, they aren't using it right. So I can't say "Opeth teh shittzo!!! >=( >=(", because they have potential. Nor can I listen to any of their songs anymore for the above reasons.

songs in minor keys with the guitar having distortion - thats metal.

Metal is any element that forms a positive ion, excluding Hydrogen.

Sorry, bad joke...

Metal is any element that forms a positive ion, excluding Hydrogen.

Sorry, bad joke...

That's six times it's been made in this thread now. Yay!

yay i got my Cathedral album today!
now where's kanabia on msn when you want him??

What's your favourite lyric? I often find myself singing

Wash away the blood on my hands (my father's blood)

My favourites are (I can't choose one):

'Natures law instead of God in heaven' from Punishment Divine. The way he sings it gets me goose bumbs every time i hear it.

'Still I hear the screams of thousands: "Crucify! Crucify!" ' from The Script for my Requiem.

yay i got my Cathedral album today!
now where's kanabia on msn when you want him??
Which album?

Right now I'm listening to "Metal Meltdown" by Judas Priest. What genre do Judas Priest count as?

Which album?
Endtyme. its pretty cool, but not quite as good as i was hoping for :(

yeah Cathedral are amazing - really want to get some of their stuff cos i only heard a few songs. there's no point searching on limewire for em unless you like choir music btw :p :(


Heh, get Soulseek. :)

yay i got my Cathedral album today!
now where's kanabia on msn when you want him??

I was at a gig :p

Endtyme. its pretty cool, but not quite as good as i was hoping for

Hmm. I only have Serpent's Gold, which is their greatest hits compilation. It's pretty good. I'd get more, but it's hard to find (there's always online sources, but I hate paying through the nose for postage), and....money issues. :p

any music with bassoons are good music. if it doesn't have a bassoon it are not good music. unless it has singing, singing makes any music bad.

and that's my horribly-off,-but-what-i-like system of telling if music is good or not :p it works for me

Yupaenu: Contrabassoons are even better.

Anyway, I've been listening to a lot of doom/goth metal lately. My Dying Bride and Type O Negative.

Right now I'm listening to "Metal Meltdown" by Judas Priest. What genre do Judas Priest count as?
Speed metal.

Endtyme. its pretty cool, but not quite as good as i was hoping for :(
I only know their older stuff...

This thread shouldn't die yet... So to give it some life... Here's a list of a large number of metal bands I like:

If you know of them, tell me what you think of 'em.
(They are in no particular order)

Pain of Salvation,
Electric Wizard,
Motorhead,
Carpathian Forest,
Accept,
Ambeon,
Amorphis,
Ancient Rites,
At the Gates,
Manowar,
Black Sabbath,
Black Swan,
Blind Guardian,
Bolt Thrower,
Bruce Dickinson,
Cacophony,
Candlemass,
Celtic Frost,
Children of Bodom,
Control Denied,
Strapping Young Lad
Dark Angel,
Dark Tranquility,
Death,
Demons & Wizards,
Dragonheart,
Diablo
Eisregen,
Ephel Duath
Elvenking,
Ensiferum,
Fates Warning
Finntroll,
Hammerfall
Graveworm
Haggard
Helloween
Dio
Iron Maiden
Kataklysm
Loudness
Mekong Delta
Metallica
Megadeth,
Metal Church
Moonsorrow,
My Dying Bride,
Nightwish,
Necrophagist
Nocturnal Mortum,
Radigost
Cruachan,
Paradise Lost,
Deep Purple,
Prong
Rage,
Raise Hell,
Rhapsody,
Savatage,
Samael
Scythe,
Scorpions
Sentenced,
Spiral Architect
Suicidal Tendencies,
Susperia,
Lemuria
Testament,
Trans-Siberian Orchestra,
Therion,
Tiamat,
Dream Theater,
Venom,
Warlock
Fight
Fates Warning
Flotsam and Jetsam
Cathedral
Exodus
Demolition Hammer
Edguy
Atreyu
Blood Duster
Einherjer
Judas Priest
Kamelot
Lost Horizon
Orphaned Land
Paradise Lost
Goatsnake
In Extremo
Raising From Hell
Shaman
Sirenia
Six Feet Under
Skiltron
Slayer
Soulitary
White zombie

I've only heard of these ones:

Motorhead,
Black Sabbath,
Iron Maiden
Metallica
Megadeth
Nightwish
Deep Purple
Judas Priest

but I like them all.

Electric Wizard - pretty damn good
Motorhead - alright
Black Sabbath - legends. What more is there to say?
Blind Guardian - Okay, but the vocals annoy me a bit
Candlemass - great
Strapping Young Lad - Meh...
Death - I know i've heard them...can't remember their music, though
Helloween - Meh...not really.
Iron Maiden - Of course.
Metallica - Up to and including the Black Album.
Megadeth - pretty good
Deep Purple - Hmm, I wouldn't quite classify them as metal (almost, though), but they're good
Suicidal Tendencies - they're great
Cathedral - Hell yes.
Blood Duster - Meh.
Judas Priest - Okay.
Goatsnake - Yeah, good stuff.
Six Feet Under - Meh.
Slayer - Yeah, good, but not really my thing.
White zombie - Alright.

I've heard of quite a few of the ones you listed but don't know them well enough (or at all) to comment.

Some of mine:

Kyuss
Sleep
Melvins
Boris
Dozer
Earth
Sepultura
Soulfly
Eyehategod
Pantera
Acidbath
Alice in Chains (might as well be called metal)
Fu Manchu
Nile
Tool

Pain of Salvation, meh...
Electric Wizard, only know their name
Motorhead, hell yeah!
Carpathian Forest, not my style
Accept, meh...
Ambeon, hell yeah!
Amorphis, only know their name; didn't hear the music yet.
Ancient Rites, not my style
At the Gates, hell yeah!
Manowar, hell yeah!
Black Sabbath, hell yeah!
Black Swan, never heard of them
Blind Guardian, they are my gods! ;)
Bolt Thrower, hell yeah!
Bruce Dickinson, good
Cacophony, never heard of them
Candlemass, very good
Celtic Frost, meh...
Children of Bodom, good
Control Denied, never heard of them
Strapping Young Lad, good
Dark Angel, hell yeah!
Dark Tranquility, good
Death, very good
Demons & Wizards, they are my (other) gods!
Dragonheart, good
Diablo, never heard ot them
Eisregen, not my style
Ephel Duath, only know their name
Elvenking, very good
Ensiferum, good
Fates Warning, meh...
Finntroll, good
Hammerfall, good
Graveworm, good
Haggard, only know their name
Helloween, Hell yeah!
Dio, Hell yeah!
Iron Maiden, Hell yeah!
Kataklysm, only know their name
Loudness, only know theri name
Mekong Delta, never heard of them
Metallica, up to the black album: Hell yeah! never heard load/reload, their new one sucks mighty arse.
Megadeth, hell yeah!
Metal Church, good
Moonsorrow, good
My Dying Bride, not my style
Nightwish, meh...
Necrophagist, meh ...
Nocturnal Mortum, meh ...
Radigost, never heard of them
Cruachan, good
Paradise Lost, meh...
Deep Purple, hell yeah
Prong, good
Rage, very good
Raise Hell, good
Rhapsody, very good
Savatage, Gods!!!
Samael, I like thier ambient cd's more then their black cd's
Scythe, never heard of them
Scorpions, very good
Sentenced, meh...
Spiral Architect, never heard of them
Suicidal Tendencies, meh...
Susperia, never heard of them
Lemuria, You know Lemuria????? I'm impressed
Testament, very good
Trans-Siberian Orchestra, Hell yeah!
Therion, good
Tiamat, good
Dream Theater, good
Venom, Hell yeah!
Warlock, good
Fight, only know their name
Fates Warning, meh...
Flotsam and Jetsam, only know their name
Cathedral, very good
Exodus, Hell yeah
Demolition Hammer, never heard of them
Edguy, good
Atreyu, not my style
Blood Duster, never heard of them
Einherjer, never heard of them
Judas Priest, hell yeah!
Kamelot, Hell yeah!
Lost Horizon, only know their name
Orphaned Land, only know their name
Paradise Lost, meh ...
Goatsnake, never hear dof them
In Extremo, good
Raising From Hell, meh...
Shaman, I like them better since they changed to Korpiklaani
Sirenia, meh ...
Six Feet Under, good
Skiltron, never head of them
Slayer, very good
Soulitary, never heard of them
White zombie, good

Everything from Bathory to Kristalnacht (some totally unknown NSBM band)..
Kristallnacht are a nazi metal band, not for me, though I think some people are being misled as to what "true" BM is. It certainly doesn't have to be satanic thats for sure- just look at Burzum (in my opinion the only "true black metal) though as far as dodgy politics in bands go, he's the exception because his music completely overshadows them (sometimes).

Personally, I cannot stand Burzum, both because the music isn't my thing (my friends and I have had many laughs in attempts to characterize the vocals) and because I hate Varg Vikernes the man.

Personally, I cannot stand Burzum, both because the music isn't my thing (my friends and I have had many laughs in attempts to characterize the vocals) and because I hate Varg Vikernes the man.
Fair enough, I think you either love or hate his music (and him, in fact) as I completely love Burzum vocals. Oh also, I thought I saw someone dissing another incredible metal band earlier- Celtic Frost- I can't even articulate how amazing this band are (pre- Cold Lake that is), by any chane when you heard them was it from one of their two latter albums?

Fair enough, I think you either love or hate his music (and him, in fact) as I completely love Burzum vocals. Oh also, I thought I saw someone dissing another incredible metal band earlier- Celtic Frost- I can't even articulate how amazing this band are (pre- Cold Lake that is), by any chane when you heard them was it from one of their two latter albums?

Haven't heard Celtic Frost, actually. Unfortunate.

I've heard both early and later Burzum, and I didn't like it.

I like some Mayhem, though I'm not fond of Maniac as a vocalist at all. Mayhem's the most "tr00" BM band I like, though. Most of the BM I listen to is of the symphonic type.

Kristallnacht are a nazi metal band, not for me, though I think some people are being misled as to what "true" BM is. It certainly doesn't have to be satanic thats for sure- just look at Burzum (in my opinion the only "true black metal) though as far as dodgy politics in bands go, he's the exception because his music completely overshadows them (sometimes).
You know, Varg is a nazi aswell... No offence, but I really dispise the man. I wouldn't listen to his music even if I thought it was good.

The only Celtic Frost song I woul recognise if I heard, it is the Circle of Tyrants because Opeth covered it ;)

I have never heard any Burzum. And I have been seeking to hear a few songs by him.

Because I mean pretty much every black metaller I know orgasms at the very mention of Burzum, I thought I might as well see why they worship him so much. But so far I have not been able to find anything. Does anyone here know of any place I can get a sample?

I have never heard any Burzum. And I have been seeking to hear a few songs by him.

Because I mean pretty much every black metaller I know orgasms at the very mention of Burzum, I thought I might as well see why they worship him so much. But so far I have not been able to find anything. Does anyone here know of any place I can get a sample?

Please don't generalize us like that. Most of the black metal fans I know absolutely loathe Burzum. Partly due to hatred of Varg (whose real first name is Kristian, amusingly enough) and because most of the people in the crowd I hang with think his music is rather sub-par as well. Especially the vocals. Just not our cup of tea.

I'm sure you can find plenty of Burzum on limewire. There's also a site called "Black Metal Radio" which you can search through, they have a couple Burzum songs on there.

Please don't generalize us like that. Most of the black metal fans I know absolutely loathe Burzum. Partly due to hatred of Varg (whose real first name is Kristian, amusingly enough) and because most of the people in the crowd I hang with think his music is rather sub-par as well. Especially the vocals. Just not our cup of tea.

I'm sure you can find plenty of Burzum on limewire. There's also a site called "Black Metal Radio" which you can search through, they have a couple Burzum songs on there.
Hmm... Thats odd... What sorta black metal do they like then?

And I don't plan on getting limewire for the sole purpose of getting Burzum... nor suffering through large ammounts of "raw" black metal...

On a sidenote, my generalization is due to the fact that almost anyone who knows anything about black metal always seems to call Burzum a "genius" and continue ranting about how brilliant of a minimalist composer he is... etc. etc. etc.

Whereas these same people have different opinions of say Darkthrone, Immortal and Emperor, they all obssess over Burzum.

Hmm...

Kyuss--Liked what I heard, got any album reccommendations?
Sleep--heard of vaguely
Melvins--dunno em...
Boris--heard of vaguely
Dozer--dunno em
Earth--dunno em
Sepultura--don't like
Soulfly--don't like
Eyehategod--don't like
Pantera--they're alright i suppose... don't like em that much though
Acidbath--heard of vaguely
Alice in Chains (might as well be called metal)--meh
Fu Manchu--heard of vaguely
Nile--don't like... i personally don't see their whole egyptian theme that unique
Tool--deeply hate them...

Though I'd like to hear more of the stoner doom metal part of your list... which albums would you reccommend?

Hmm... Thats odd... What sorta black metal do they like then?

And I don't plan on getting limewire for the sole purpose of getting Burzum... nor suffering through large ammounts of "raw" black metal...

On a sidenote, my generalization is due to the fact that almost anyone who knows anything about black metal always seems to call Burzum a "genius" and continue ranting about how brilliant of a minimalist composer he is... etc. etc. etc.

Whereas these same people have different opinions of say Darkthrone, Immortal and Emperor, they all obssess over Burzum.

Here's a summary of the prevalent attitudes among black metal fans in the circles I hang with:

1. Emperor= the best there ever was. I can't even begin to express the amount of 'Emperor-philia' there is in the local black metaller population
2. Burzum= absolute shit. Just about all the black metallers in the crowd I hang out with think that Burzum is musically sub-par, the lyrics are nothing but neo-nazi ramblings, and the vocals are the most obnoxious in the history of music.
3. Naglfar is highly thought of, most like their style a lot.
4. Opinions are mixed on Darkthrone. Most hate them with a passion, though a few like them. I don't hate them myself, I just don't like them.
5. Mayhem is respected, though not everyone likes their music.
6. Enslaved is a band that most think highly of, as are Borknagar, Dimmu Borgir, Dark Funeral, Satyricon and especially Immortal.

Here's a summary of the prevalent attitudes among black metal fans in the circles I hang with:

1. Emperor= the best there ever was. I can't even begin to express the amount of 'Emperor-philia' there is in the local black metaller population
2. Burzum= absolute shit. Just about all the black metallers in the crowd I hang out with think that Burzum is musically sub-par, the lyrics are nothing but neo-nazi ramblings, and the vocals are the most obnoxious in the history of music.
3. Naglfar is highly thought of, most like their style a lot.
4. Opinions are mixed on Darkthrone. Most hate them with a passion, though a few like them. I don't hate them myself, I just don't like them.
5. Mayhem is respected, though not everyone likes their music.
6. Enslaved is a band that most think highly of, as are Borknagar, Dimmu Borgir, Dark Funeral, Satyricon and especially Immortal.

I have found the inherent difference. Most of the black metallers I know despise Dimmu Borgir and whine how he's too commercialized to be "true" black metal.

Dimmu Borgir is a "they" not a "he," just so you know, heh heh.

You probably know black metallers who think they're "tr00" or "kvlt" or something. Black metallers I know tend to be, like me, fans of 'symphonic black metal,' and don't fault Dimmu Borgir simply for being successful, as they remain very skilled musically.

Also, there is a continuing debate among my friends on whether Dissection is black metal or death metal

Though I'd like to hear more of the stoner doom metal part of your list... which albums would you reccommend?

"Welcome to Sky Valley" by Kyuss is in my opinion their best moment, but "Blues for the Red Sun" is a little more "doomish".

"Sleep's Holy Mountain" by Sleep is definitely worth a look. If you have the patience, "Dopesmoker" is also good (one song that runs for 74 minutes), but it's definitely an acquired taste.

I'd make more suggestions, but to be honest, i'm still working on tracking down the albums of most of those bands, so i'm not really in a position to comment on which is their best.

How about somebody reccommend me more albums to buy on ebay...

Please base your reccommendations on my big list of bands I like on the previous page...

Thank you.

Glad to know that there are other Sentenced fans out there. One of my favorites and the band that truey brought me into the Black Metal scene.

Amerigo, Down is a great album by sentenced. Also try Crimson and Frozen. I didn't care for A Cold White Light, but they did change singers again.

Glad to know that there are other Sentenced fans out there. One of my favorites and the band that truey brought me into the Black Metal scene.

Amerigo, Down is a great album by sentenced. Also try Crimson and Frozen. I didn't care for A Cold White Light, but they did change singers again.
I thought Cold White Light wasn't too bad... can't compare to Amok though. I'll try and find Down, but so far I think I may buy North from Here...

Personally I don't particularly like the direction they took in their later career, though instrumentally they are still quite good, I don't like the whole blatant whining. I mean I'd really like Cold White Light if they had some more subtelty in the lyrics.

i like a wide range in metal, see... Napalm Death (grindcore)...

of course i included some subgenres in there, but they're all metal


It is very arguable, to say the least, that Grindcore is a genre of metal. It was born out of Hardcore Punk and is considered by most to be an extreme form of (-)Core, aka Punk. The difference between punk & metal being the noisy, abject approach putting the nature of grindcore much closer to punk. Whereas metal tries to be more tight & technical, an actual musically profient approach is taken with metal, punk opposes this in an attempt to be either "DIY" or noisy for the sake of noisy. In fact, many Deathgrind/Deathcore bands, based on just their influences of grindcore bands like Carcass, are falsely called, even by themselves, as Death 'Metal', such as bands like Cannibal Corpse, which are closer to Goregrind. The same is true of a lot of Black Metal bands which are influenced by oi and have an abject aesthetic quality to their recordings and oppose the use of 'good equipment' when recording. Metal here, is a misnomer, just from their roots alone, let alone their sound. The term 'Norsecore' has been proposed for many of these kind of "Black Metal" bands but it is still a weak term to say the least, when a lot of it resembles more of a satanic image anyway.


2. Burzum= .... the lyrics are nothing but neo-nazi ramblings,

This is a horribly uninformed statement, as there aren't any "Nazi" overtones in any of Burzums lyrics. One mention of 'races' as in; the world is thrust into chaos and there is 'war between the races', in one song only, which isn't "neo-nazi" in presentation at all, in fact it is presented in a way no different than any other Black Metal band would.

While we're on the topic of naming bands, some bands I like near metal.
Atreyu
Avenged Sevenfold
Bleeding Through
Blood has been shed
Caliban
Cult of Luna
Deftones
Every time I die
Killswitch Engage
Lamb of god :)
Nine inch nails
Poison the well
Still Remains
System of a down
The Bled
Trivium
Underoath
Unearth

And on a slightly different stlyle

Alexisonfire
From Atumn to ahses
From first to last
Idiot Pilot


I preffer my metal to be a fastish speed with a mix of screaming and soft vocals long guitar rifts always welcome

This is a horribly uninformed statement, as there aren't any "Nazi" overtones in any of Burzums lyrics. One mention of 'races' as in; the world is thrust into chaos and there is 'war between the races', in one song only, which isn't "neo-nazi" in presentation at all, in fact it is presented in a way no different than any other Black Metal band would.

However, even if incorrect, it is the dominant attitude towards Burzum in the local Black Metal fanbase.