NationStates Jolt Archive

I see people debating the evolution/creation of life a lot, but never of language! Linguists say that the languages of the world evolved, whereas the bible says that they were created as a punishment for the tower of babel. Why aren't the creationists trying to ban linguistics (or at least have "intelligent design" of languages presented as an alternative theory)?

I see people debating the evolution/creation of life a lot, but never of language! Linguists say that the languages of the world evolved, whereas the bible says that they were created as a punishment for the tower of babel. Why aren't the creationists trying to ban linguistics (or at least have "intelligent design" of languages presented as an alternative theory)?
Read The Tower of Babel by Robert Pennock (I think that's his name). It deals with both evolution of language and biological evolution to debunk creationism and literal interpretation of the bible.

Why aren't the creationists trying to ban linguistics (or at least have "intelligent design" of languages presented as an alternative theory)?
Perhaps because it's easier to argue that scientists have misread the fossil record and the ages of rock than that linguists have misread ancient manuscript and that their authors lied when writing the dates on them. The evolution of languages is much more accessible to most people, particularly as most of it happened relatively quickly. Don't forget the Church used to insist that the Bible must only be written in Latin, but since that time other languages such as English have evolved.

Perhaps because it's easier to argue that scientists have misread the fossil record and the ages of rock than that linguists have misread ancient manuscript and that their authors lied when writing the dates on them. The evolution of languages is much more accessible to most people, particularly as most of it happened relatively quickly. Don't forget the Church used to insist that the Bible must only be written in Latin, but since that time other languages such as English have evolved.

True, but the creationists don't let things like evidence get in the way of other claims.

It's much easier to see languages evolve than species. That's why there's no Intelligent Design push in linguistics.

I think it's much more important to understand the changes in language than the changes in species, as changes in language affect the meanings of historical texts--texts from which we can learn about the causes and outcomes of past human actions and can shape our present actions in light of.

Olara']It's much easier to see languages evolve than species. That's why there's no Intelligent Design push in linguistics.

I think it's much more important to understand the changes in language than the changes in species, as changes in language affect the meanings of historical texts--texts from which we can learn about the causes and outcomes of past human actions and can shape our present actions in light of.

It's still contradicting the bible though, which is why biological evolution is rejected by some.

A better way to phrase it might be, where did language come from at the beginning? Did it evolve from grunts and growls of more animal species, or did God go "Thou shalt speak intelligently!" ?
It's clear that language has evolved for a long time, but how did it get going originally? I'm not touching that one. :P

True, but the creationists don't let things like evidence get in the way of other claims.
This is rather serious evidence. It's equivalent to the Bible featuring only monkeys and no humans, and then observing that humans seem to rule the world now.

Even among people how like to take large sections of the Bible literally, I doubt many of them would argue that you can build a tower high enough to reach God.

This is rather serious evidence. It's equivalent to the Bible featuring only monkeys and no humans, and then observing that humans seem to rule the world now.

Even among people how like to take large sections of the Bible literally, I doubt many of them would argue that you can build a tower high enough to reach God.
they were trying to build a tower high enough to reach God. You can try to do anything, you just won't always succeed.

I see people debating the evolution/creation of life a lot, but never of language! Linguists say that the languages of the world evolved, whereas the bible says that they were created as a punishment for the tower of babel. Why aren't the creationists trying to ban linguistics (or at least have "intelligent design" of languages presented as an alternative theory)?

You know, there are people out there who think that the 1611 Authorized Version's language is divine, and has existed since all time, and has been spoken since the Garden of Eden, and that belief that this particular language "Evolved" is ungodly....

It's still contradicting the bible though, which is why biological evolution is rejected by some.
But it is a matter of what you can see. Biological evolution takes a much longer time, and I can't physically find pre-human ancestors. On the other hand, I can find an Englishman and an American quite easily and point-out how American branched off from and evolved on an independent route from English centuries ago.

they were trying to build a tower high enough to reach God. You can try to do anything, you just won't always succeed.
But why would God have struck them down with a thousand languages if they had no chance of succeeding?

But why would God have struck them down with a thousand languages if they had no chance of succeeding?
Have you ever read the old testament? YHWH is a jerk.

But why would God have struck them down with a thousand languages if they had no chance of succeeding?
To teach them that when you try to overstep your limits, bad things will happen to you. Better that God give them separate languages for trying to build a tower to heaven than they try to fly and end up dead.

A better way to phrase it might be, where did language come from at the beginning? Did it evolve from grunts and growls of more animal species, or did God go "Thou shalt speak intelligently!" ?
It's clear that language has evolved for a long time, but how did it get going originally? I'm not touching that one. :P

The generally accepted concept is that language evolved in written (or pictographical) form before spoken language evolved. Grunts and growls (and hoots and moans) were the technique refined once cave pictures began. They were left as a way to remember and explain.

Later spoken language developed to describe the pictures. And then written language. It was a long and slow process but after that, it took off like wild fire and dialects and various written components came about.

It's not a hard histroy to follow. It is theorized that part of the reason why Neanderthals died out was their inability to communicate at the same level as Homo Sapiens Sapien.

Olara']To teach them that when you try to overstep your limits, bad things will happen to you. Better that God give them separate languages for trying to build a tower to heaven than they try to fly and end up dead.
But that's a horrible lesson! It inhibits man from trying, from striving to be good, better, best. It slaps him down and puts him in "his place", like the white people did to blacks last century. It's not like God made some rule that was being broken, like that silly Eden incident; all the people did was show ingenuity and curiosity.