NationStates Jolt Archive

Today I am enjoying one of my favorite Halloween rituals - reading one of Lovecraft's or Poe's fine pieces of horror literature (this year it's Lovecraft's "the Shadow Over Innsmouth"). I finished about half of it on the train and plan to end it in bed.

In that spirit, and the spirit of Halloween,m who is your favorite horror author? And of the "greats" (debatable?) on the (upcoming - have patience) poll who is your favorite?

I remember going to a rather literary Halloween party, where we sat around in costumes and read Poe by candlelight.

It put everyone to sleep.

My favorite is Thomas Ligotti. His stories are often dreamlike in their atmosphere and sometimes a bit reminiscent of Lovecraft only a bit better written (IMHO).

I think Stephen King by a long shot. He really got me back into reading books on a regular basis. I would loose sleep at night reading his work.

I think I have to pick Poe, solely because of The Raven.

Lovecraft. Hands down. :cool:

In case anybody wants to read a Ligotti story this one's available online.

http://www.ligotti.net/kb.php?mode=article&k=44

Out of that lot, Lovecraft (Poe, Barker and Maupassant are good as well). Lord Dunsany's great, but I'm dubious that he's a horror writer.

Not out of that lot: Robert Bloch, Kim Newman, Richard Christian Matheson, Roald Dahl, Ramsey Campbell, Poppy Z Brite, Karl Edward Wagner, Nikolai Gogol, Tanith Lee...

BTW, Anne Rice has become a born again Christian, and has stated that she'll never write another horror fiction again.

She's currently writing a book on the life of Jesus.

Of course, that's a book about the walking dead...

Anne Rice has always been overrated anyway.

BTW, Anne Rice has become a born again Christian, and has stated that she'll never write another horror fiction again.
Pity she didn't decide that back in the mid '90s: at this late stage there are likely to be more people upset about her giving up writing soft porn...

Anne Rice has always been overrated anyway.

And the congregation says, "AMEN!"

I think that this poll should have included an "other" option. Personally, I believe that Brian Lumley, Robert R McCammon and Christopher Golden were worthy of consideration.

And the congregation says, "AMEN!"

I think that this poll should have included an "other" option. Personally, I think that Brian Lumley, Robert R McCammon and Christopher Golden were worthy of consideration.
In October of 2005, Rice announced in a Newsweek article that she would "write only for the Lord". Her first novel in the genre is called CHRIST THE LORD: Out of Egypt and is the first in a trilogy that will chronicle the life of Christ.

Her first novel in the genre is called CHRIST THE LORD: Out of Egypt
Egypt?
he first in a trilogy that will chronicle the life of Christ
God; God 2: Son Of God; Return Of The Son Of God...

God; God 2: Son Of God; Return Of The Son Of God...


Yeah, but if the Bible's right, there won't be anyone left to read the third installment. :p

M.R. James -- some of the scariest short stories I've ever read -- Count Magnus; Number 13; Oh Whistle and I'll Come to You, My Lad; Casting the Runes; A Lesson to the Curious; An Episode of Cathedral History (terrifying), etc., etc.

Joseph Sheridan LeFanu -- Carmilla, but even more so Squire Toby's Will.

Algernon Blackwood -- The Wendigo (arguably most terrifying story ever written), The Willows (arguably second most terrifying story ever written)

dunwich horror by lovecraft is the best

dunwich horror by lovecraft is the best
The Dunwich Horror is a good one. I like The Color Out of Space better.

I like Stephen King (It, Shining, From a buick (8?)). His books always give me a good scare.

Poe is also very good for crazy scary people (tell tale heart for example).

The Dunwich Horror is a good one. I like The Color Out of Space better.
It's too close to call between those. Dunwich has a very traditional Lovecraftian monster and more detailed references to the Necronomicon. It builds on the mythos. Color is definately more creepy. Especially when Ammi has to put the strangely withered and insane creature that was once his friend's wife out of it's misery (or was it one of his sons, I don't remember).

I'm going with Poe. He is a horror master.

I never saw Anne Rice as horror so much, because she wrote from the "monster's" point of view. Not so horrible anymore.

Its a shame she wont write anymore about Lestat. I was liking his character. Her sister still writes fantasy stuff.

Koontz is by far the best. King comes in a close second. I used to read Poe, but lost intrest.

If any one is going to read Koontz I say start with "Watchers" then "Twilight Eyes". "Watchers" will have you looking over your shoulder..."What was that"?
I have read a little over half of his gazillion or so books and must say that they are DAMN GOOD.

Koontz Pseudonyms:
K.R. Dwyer
Owen West
Anthony North
David Axton
Leonard Chris
Aaron Wolfe
Richard Paige
John Hill
Deanna Dwyer
Brian Coffey
Leigh Nichols

Koontz is by far the best. King comes in a close second. I used to read Poe, but lost intrest.

If any one is going to read Koontz I say start with "Watchers" then "Twilight Eyes". "Watchers" will have you looking over your shoulder..."What was that"?
I have read a little over half of his gazillion or so books and must say that they are DAMN GOOD.
I tried to read one of Koontz's books. It bored the hell out of me. Maybe it was a bad one, every author's bound to have at least one, but it turned me off to his work.

I tried to read one of Koontz's books. It bored the hell out of me. Maybe it was a bad one, every author's bound to have at least one, but it turned me off to his work.

Have a go with "Watchers". Most people should like "Watchers".

It's too close to call between those. Dunwich has a very traditional Lovecraftian monster and more detailed references to the Necronomicon. It builds on the mythos. Color is definately more creepy. Especially when Ammi has to put the strangely withered and insane creature that was once his friend's wife out of it's misery (or was it one of his sons, I don't remember).
How about At The Mountains Of Madness?

Gosh that's a tough one
I do enjoy Stephen King...his twisted, sick style of crazynessitude makes for a thrilling read...H.P. Lovecraft will always send chills down my spine...The call of Kuthulu;)

Out of that lot, Lovecraft (Poe, Barker and Maupassant are good as well). Lord Dunsany's great, but I'm dubious that he's a horror writer.

Not out of that lot: Robert Bloch, Kim Newman, Richard Christian Matheson, Roald Dahl, Ramsey Campbell, Poppy Z Brite, Karl Edward Wagner, Nikolai Gogol, Tanith Lee...
Yeah, Lord Dunsany a HORROR writer? REALLY!

How about At The Mountains Of Madness?
Personally I liked it but I consider it a lesser work in comparisson to Dunwich or Colour. Then again, I'm just a fan, not an expert literary critic. What did you think of At the Mountains of Madness?

The Dunwich Horror is a good one. I like The Color Out of Space better.
Saw the movie adaption "Die Monster, Die!" Are they anything alike?

Personally I liked it but I consider it a lesser work in comparisson to Dunwich or Colour. Then again, I'm just a fan, not an expert literary critic. What did you think of At the Mountains of Madness?
I'd have said it's the best thing he ever did, myself, so I'm possibly a trifle biased in its favour...

Saw the movie adaption "Die Monster, Die!" Are they anything alike?
Nobody's ever made a movie based on Lovecraft that is actually in any way similar to an HP Lovecraft story.

Nobody's ever made a movie based on Lovecraft that is actually in any way similar to an HP Lovecraft story.
It isn't as bad as some of the films based on his stuff, though.

I can't believe no one's mentioned Bram Stoker yet. Of those listed, I'd have to go with Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, although Frankenstein is usually considered more of an early work of science fiction than a horror story. A cookie for anyone who knows the name of the monster in Frankenstein!

A cookie for anyone who knows the name of the monster in Frankenstein!

Umm, Frankensteins's monster?

Though iirc it is never given a named, just insulted when refered to (eg "The Fiend" or "my hideous progeny") or plainly called "the monster," "the creature" etc.

Though it has been a while since I read the book.

Umm, Frankensteins's monster?

Though iirc it is never given a named, just insulted when refered to (eg "The Fiend" or "my hideous progeny") or plainly called "the monster," "the creature" etc.

Though it has been a while since I read the book.
Or maybe the real monster is Dr. Frankenstein, who defied the laws of god and nature to create life from what should have remained dead and thus is responsible for the harm done by his creation.

Personally, having never read the book, I blame the little girl in the movie who was throwing daisies in the river.

Or maybe the real monster is Dr. Frankenstein, who defied the laws of god and nature to create life from what should have remained dead and thus is responsible for the harm done by his creation.

Personally, having never read the book, I blame the little girl in the movie who was throwing daisies in the river.
You should read the book: it's an excellent read and far shorter than most gothic novels.
Doesn't the little girl get edited out of most showings?

Personally, having never read the book, I blame the little girl in the movie who was throwing daisies in the river.

that bitch got what she deserved...

In October of 2005, Rice announced in a Newsweek article that she would "write only for the Lord". Her first novel in the genre is called CHRIST THE LORD: Out of Egypt and is the first in a trilogy that will chronicle the life of Christ.
Oh jaysus. Her only good stuff was her porn/erotica...and really, most of that was just ripped off from other erotica writers anyway.

You should read the book: it's an excellent read and far shorter than most gothic novels.
Doesn't the little girl get edited out of most showings?
Yeah. I think it was because they thought audiences would find a child's death too horrifying.

Yeah. I think it was because they thought audiences would find a child's death too horrifying.
Yes...too bad the real life situations don't have that same effect. [/hijack]

It's too close to call between those. Dunwich has a very traditional Lovecraftian monster and more detailed references to the Necronomicon. It builds on the mythos. Color is definately more creepy. Especially when Ammi has to put the strangely withered and insane creature that was once his friend's wife out of it's misery (or was it one of his sons, I don't remember).
The Dunwich Horror establishes the Lovecraft reality, the whole New England thing. Anyone planning a trip to Massachusetts should definitely read The Dunwich Horror on the way over -- and The Shadow Over Innsmouth, if you're spending any time on Cape Cod.

Color Out of Space is his best single piece of writing, though, imo.

Saw the movie adaption "Die Monster, Die!" Are they anything alike?
NO!!!

How about At The Mountains Of Madness?
A good one. A little slow, I think.

The Horror of the Middle Span. The Shuttered Room. Pickman's Model. Dagon. Imprisoned with the Pharaohs.

Let's face it, the man was a master.

Oh jaysus. Her only good stuff was her porn/erotica...and really, most of that was just ripped off from other erotica writers anyway.
File under "B" for Bad Career Moves -- one thing to convert, quite another to think anyone wants to slog through hundreds of pages of pretentious, overly personal prattling all about it. If there's neither sex nor fashion advice, there's really no point in reading one of her books.

So I guess I'm hinting I'm not a huge Anne Rice fan. I don't dig most of the big current names. I positively detest Clive Barker and Stephen King.

I'm liking Suzuki Koji who wrote Ring. There's a good English translation. It's a trilogy. Part 2, Spiral, is out in paperback in English. I just finished reading it. It's even better than Ring.

I'm liking Suzuki Koji who wrote Ring. There's a good English translation. It's a trilogy. Part 2, Spiral, is out in paperback in English. I just finished reading it. It's even better than Ring.

Reading Spiral at the moment. Just need to wait for Loop to be released (though I hear Loop is far more scince fictiony that the first two)

Reading Spiral at the moment. Just need to wait for Loop to be released (though I hear Loop is far more scince fictiony that the first two)
He's walking that line. It's an easy line to cross. Frankenstein is the only book I know that blends the two really well -- maybe because it predates the genre descriptions, so it wasn't limited that way.

A good one. A little slow, I think.

The Horror of the Middle Span. The Shuttered Room. Pickman's Model. Dagon. Imprisoned with the Pharaohs.

Let's face it, the man was a master.
I see At the Mountains of Madness as more of a Science Fiction story than a horror story though.

He's walking that line. It's an easy line to cross. Frankenstein is the only book I know that blends the two really well -- maybe because it predates the genre descriptions, so it wasn't limited that way.

Well from what I've heard of Loop, it goes on a complete tangent with regards to the other two (I'm not sure if you have read any reviews of it so I don't want to accidentally give a spoiler).

Though I agree with you on Frankenstein. But I have got into a few arguements over wether Frankenstein was SF or not, even before I read anything by advocates of the view such as Brian Aldiss. Just by reading it, it seemed obvious to me. I can only assume that some people have a snobby attitude to SF and don't want to admit that great works such as Frankenstein can be considered part of the tradition.

I see At the Mountains of Madness as more of a Science Fiction story than a horror story though.

Would you not say that there is a huge intersect between SF and horror though?

And that genres at best are only general guidelines rather then discrete categories?

Would you not say that there is a huge intersect between SF and horror though?

And that genres at best are only general guidelines rather then discrete categories?
Sure, they shade into one another at certain points, but if they were genera and I was a taxonomist I would place the species called "At The Mountains of Madness" in the Sci Fi Genus.

Although Poe is my favorite "horror" author, the story that creeped me out the most was "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, " by science fiction author Harlan Ellison. I read it in the wee hours of the morning while I was babysitting a machine at Duyvil's Danskammer (devils dancechamber), a supposedly haunted place and the site of a massacre of Leni Lenape Indians by Dutch Settlers. I'm sure the hour and the setting contributed to the mood, but I don't think I've ever read a more disturbing story before or since.

Although Poe is my favorite "horror" author, the story that creeped me out the most was "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, " by science fiction author Harlan Ellison. I read it in the wee hours of the morning while I was babysitting a machine at Duyvil's Danskammer (devils dancechamber), a supposedly haunted place and the site of a massacre of Leni Lenape Indians by Dutch Settlers. I'm sure the hour and the setting contributed to the mood, but I don't think I've ever read a more disturbing story before or since.
Lenni Lenape? Dutch settlers? Are you by any chance a resident of the Great Garden State?

Marx

Marx
Groucho, Chicko, Harpo or Zeppo?

Groucho, Chicko, Harpo or Zeppo?

Karl

Although Poe is my favorite "horror" author, the story that creeped me out the most was "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, " by science fiction author Harlan Ellison. I read it in the wee hours of the morning while I was babysitting a machine at Duyvil's Danskammer (devils dancechamber), a supposedly haunted place and the site of a massacre of Leni Lenape Indians by Dutch Settlers. I'm sure the hour and the setting contributed to the mood, but I don't think I've ever read a more disturbing story before or since.
Ellison's done a lot of horror stuff, though: haven't you read Croatoan?

Favorite horror author: Ann Coulter.

Egypt?

God; God 2: Son Of God; Return Of The Son Of God...

Doubtful to be confused with Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?

Sure, they shade into one another at certain points, but if they were genera and I was a taxonomist I would place the species called "At The Mountains of Madness" in the Sci Fi Genus.

I think we agree to disagree then. Since I don't think that you can be taxonomic about literature genres.

I see SF and horror more of a continuum since I think they are two mutually supporting areas with an absolutely huge area of overlap. But I would agree that At The Mountains of Madness is more science fiction than horror.

I think we agree to disagree then. Since I don't think that you can be taxonomic about literature genres.

I see SF and horror more of a continuum since I think they are two mutually supporting areas with an absolutely huge area of overlap. But I would agree that At The Mountains of Madness is more science fiction than horror.
I agree with you up to a point (a small, far away, niggling little point). Horror and SF are compatible and often morph into each other if only because they both extrapolate fantastical ideas from a basis in reality. However, they each have their specific requirements as genres. Although SF is typically about social commentary, it must somehow involve science or science-related topics (like space, technology, etc.). It begins to break down when the definition of what's a science gets stretched too far (is economics a science for literary purposes?). Dealing with issues of medicine, life/death, identity, hostile forces, SF can get extremely scary at times.

Horror, in my opinion, must be scary to qualify. (Although humorous horror parodies are great, they aren't really horror stories, imo.) You can use any kind of plot or setting, including science fiction (and comedy), to produce a horror story, if you are able to scare your reader. But if you stretch the rules of how-to-scare too much, your story won't be scary and it won't be Horror.

I guess the real difference may be the intention of the writer -- primarily to scare, or primarily to explore issues/envision a future.

I agree with you up to a point (a small, far away, niggling little point). Horror and SF are compatible and often morph into each other if only because they both extrapolate fantastical ideas from a basis in reality. However, they each have their specific requirements as genres. Although SF is typically about social commentary, it must somehow involve science or science-related topics (like space, technology, etc.). It begins to break down when the definition of what's a science gets stretched too far (is economics a science for literary purposes?). Dealing with issues of medicine, life/death, identity, hostile forces, SF can get extremely scary at times.

Horror, in my opinion, must be scary to qualify. (Although humorous horror parodies are great, they aren't really horror stories, imo.) You can use any kind of plot or setting, including science fiction (and comedy), to produce a horror story, if you are able to scare your reader. But if you stretch the rules of how-to-scare too much, your story won't be scary and it won't be Horror.

I guess the real difference may be the intention of the writer -- primarily to scare, or primarily to explore issues/envision a future.
I think you're being a bit to purist here: I tend to agree with AC about Lovecraft, most of his stuff that isn't a dubious imitation of Lord Dunsany is based on SF tropes. At The Mountains Of Madness definitely is.
Mind you, so's The Island Of Doctor Moreau, I Am Legend and a fair chunk of Poe. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

For those interested in a forum that deals specifically with horror stories, mainly Thomas Ligotti and H.P. Lovecraft, visit www.ligotti.net

Members even get avatars!

It's not as much fun as NS General, but it's cool to check in now and then.

I think you're being a bit to purist here: I tend to agree with AC about Lovecraft, most of his stuff that isn't a dubious imitation of Lord Dunsany is based on SF tropes. At The Mountains Of Madness definitely is.
Mind you, so's The Island Of Doctor Moreau, I Am Legend and a fair chunk of Poe. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
You're right. These kinds of discussions feed into my more retentive tendencies. I'll lighten up.

You're right. These kinds of discussions feed into my more retentive tendencies. I'll lighten up.
It isn't a bad idea. One of the nice things about horror is that it's the only genre that's defined by its effects rather than conventions: there's all sorts of stuff in there, SF, psychological studies, comedies, thrillers, fantasies...
I love that.

It isn't a bad idea. One of the nice things about horror is that it's the only genre that's defined by its effects rather than conventions: there's all sorts of stuff in there, SF, psychological studies, comedies, thrillers, fantasies...
I love that.
Even detective stories. Every read any of Clive Barker's Harry D'amour stories?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_D'Amour

Even detective stories. Every read any of Clive Barker's Harry D'amour stories?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_D'Amour
Oh, I've read those ones.
I feel a case could be made for 7even as well. Particularly when Sloth starts trying to scream...

Oh, I've read those ones.
I feel a case could be made for 7even as well. Particularly when Sloth starts trying to scream...
That confused the shit out of me until I realized you were talking movies rather than literature. Yeah, seven could be seen as a blend of detective and horror fiction.

That confused the shit out of me until I realized you were talking movies rather than literature. Yeah, seven could be seen as a blend of detective and horror fiction.
Should have been more clear on that: my bad. It's just the first detective story that works as horror that sprang to mind.

It isn't a bad idea. One of the nice things about horror is that it's the only genre that's defined by its effects rather than conventions: there's all sorts of stuff in there, SF, psychological studies, comedies, thrillers, fantasies...
I love that.
Horror is defined by its effects, precisely. There actually are specific techniques for getting those effects, btw, and all the good (i.e. scary) horror writers use them.

For instance, are you familiar with "ankle terrors"? You know, that itchy, tense feeling around the ankles when you're scared, in a dark place, maybe with furniture you can't see under? It's part of the fight-or-flight response -- you're legs are tensing up. In The Wendigo, which I mentioned earlier, there's a wonderful scene in which two men on a hunting trip are sleeping in a tent; Blackwood subtly exploits ankle terrors by implying that when one of the characters wakes up he interrupts a spirit from dragging his partner out of the tent by his ankles (the other man is stiff and crying, apparently not even awake). The mere mention of his feet and exposed ankles sticking out of the tent caps the terror of the scene by invoking that feeling in the reader.

Likewise, MR James exploits a common fear of sticking one's hand into unknown spaces in a scene in which a haunted character is awakened in the night, reaches under his pillow for his watch, but touches a hairy mouth instead (very Freudian).

I write horror as a hobby, so I spend a lot of time reading the masters, first for fun, then to learn their effects. You see this use of common fears and responses with all the greats.

I'm a big fan of Mr. Poe. If you knew what his life was like, you'd understand why he wrote horror and mystery. His mother died. His wife died, which led him to write "The Raven". He wasn't all rich and spoiled. Quite the opposite. He was mocked and ridiculed because of his stories. I guess people assumed that his stories were based on true stories. Morons. His stories went well in Europe. Then again, Europe wasn't all peace, love, and friendship back then.

Shelley also gets my respect, but only for Frankenstein.

I plan on writing horror soon. Maybe I'll start today.

Anybody like the filmic Innsmouth adaptation Dagon?

I think that came close to capturing a Lovecraftian feel.:D

And the old Rod Serling series Night Gallery had a good "Pickman's Model" episode.:)

Horror is defined by its effects, precisely. There actually are specific techniques for getting those effects, btw, and all the good (i.e. scary) horror writers use them.

For instance, are you familiar with "ankle terrors"? You know, that itchy, tense feeling around the ankles when you're scared, in a dark place, maybe with furniture you can't see under? It's part of the fight-or-flight response -- you're legs are tensing up. In The Wendigo, which I mentioned earlier, there's a wonderful scene in which two men on a hunting trip are sleeping in a tent; Blackwood subtly exploits ankle terrors by implying that when one of the characters wakes up he interrupts a spirit from dragging his partner out of the tent by his ankles (the other man is stiff and crying, apparently not even awake). The mere mention of his feet and exposed ankles sticking out of the tent caps the terror of the scene by invoking that feeling in the reader.

Likewise, MR James exploits a common fear of sticking one's hand into unknown spaces in a scene in which a haunted character is awakened in the night, reaches under his pillow for his watch, but touches a hairy mouth instead (very Freudian).

I write horror as a hobby, so I spend a lot of time reading the masters, first for fun, then to learn their effects. You see this use of common fears and responses with all the greats.
I like Algernon Blackwood a lot: about the worst you can say against him is that he wasn't William Hope Hodgson (who was more or less contemporary) which isn't really that big a put down.

Avika: I think Poe was the single biggest influence on Jules Verne, wasn't he?

Edgar Allen Poe. He's just fantastic.

Anybody like the filmic Innsmouth adaptation Dagon?

I think that came close to capturing a Lovecraftian feel.:D

And the old Rod Serling series Night Gallery had a good "Pickman's Model" episode.:)
Dagon was *hilarious*!!! I love it. Horrific costumes and sound effects (that aquatic dialogue), plus all those in-jokes (Miskatonic U sweatshirt). Same for Reanimator and From Beyond. Those movies made a Jeffrey Combs fan out of me.

Good Lovecraft adaptations always end up being funny and horrifying at the same time.

I like Algernon Blackwood a lot: about the worst you can say against him is that he wasn't William Hope Hodgson (who was more or less contemporary) which isn't really that big a put down.

Avika: I think Poe was the single biggest influence on Jules Verne, wasn't he?
I think the period from the 1880s through the 1930s was a golden age for horror. There are good stories before and since, but the number of amazing horror writers at that time is pretty impressive. That's pretty much why I don't really like the moderns, because I don't think they live up to those older writers' example.

With an exception I just thought of: Not really the writer, but the book at least: Ghost Story by Peter Straub. That's a good one.

I think the period from the 1880s through the 1930s was a golden age for horror. There are good stories before and since, but the number of amazing horror writers at that time is pretty impressive. That's pretty much why I don't really like the moderns, because I don't think they live up to those older writers' example.

With an exception I just thought of: Not really the writer, but the book at least: Ghost Story by Peter Straub. That's a good one.
Have you read any of Fritz Lieber's stuff? He started during the 'thirties, but was a bit later, really.

Clive Barker gets my first pick. Followed closely by Poppy Z Brite, Stephen King, and Lovecraft. Mark Danielewski deserves an honorable mention for writing House of Leaves, an instant classic for his first try.