NationStates Jolt Archive

This week, we had Holocaust Memorial Week, and the stats they put out were...very historically inaccurate. I told the people organizing it, and they refused to correct any, and they refused to retract the very incorrect statement of "Jews suffered far more then anyone in World War II." I was also very offended by their defense of Soviet Atrocities and Joseph Stalin, as well as the fact they didn't research anything at all. I was also offended how all they talked about were Jews being killed in Death Camps, whiled they ignored the Polish, the Gays, the Communists, Men of Religion, and etc, the Examples are...

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.

2. The Gestapo did not run the Concentration Camps.

3. WE DID NOT FIGHT CHINA IN WORLD WAR II!!!

4. 10-11 million people died in the Holocaust, not 6 million.

5. German POW camps were not Death Camps. The average German POW Camp had close to a 95% survival rate, (for the Allied Forces, not the Soviet Union, as they did not sign the Geneva Convention, so actually, Germany abided by the Geneva Convention.)

6. GERMANY NEVER INVADED SWITZERLAND!!!

And there are tons more. I can't even finish them all. I'm generally open to reason, but they ignored me, so I simply held a peaceful boycott.

I just boycott any enforced memorial day. If I want to remember the holocaust (and I do; many of my family died in it), I'll do it in my own time and not when it's raised to artificial prominence by some group with a very restricted view of history (nicely evidenced here by the fallacies you've reported).

I've heard worse. You wouldn't believe the sheer number of people who think that we fought against communists in WW2. Yeah, *cough*, the communists were on our side...

Also, a large number of the those who did die, did so because of illness, such as typhus.

And the Russians suffered the worst number of deaths.

Also, a large number of the those who did die, did so because of illness, such as typhus.

And you have to say, Gas Chambers are ALOT more humane then what the Japanese did in uh...everywhere in Asia...

I've heard similar nonsense from classmates, i don't know where these people come up with it. Most revolting of all i find is peoples assosiation of communism with nazism. I'm a socialist and my friends call me a communist because of it. I can't tell you how many people at my school have called me a nazi becuase they thought the two terms were synonymous, you know, you could say the nazis thought communism and judaism were synonymous (in some ways, lots of jews were communists). Now people, because of the soviet union i suppose, perhaps, i don't really know, ignorant people see communism and nazism as synonymous, maybe it's just the area i live in. i don't know. but now i'm just rambling....

Yeah, those figures are pretty inaccurate.

It was 6 million Jews who died, plus 5 million others in the concentration camps.

I am Jewish, so I would observe Holocaust Memorial Day (aka Yom HaShoah), because so many Jews died.

I'd say European Jews, as a people, suffered most. 6 million out of, what, 8 million? Second were Poles, as Poland lost 15% percent of her population in the war. In sheer numbers Soviets, and most of all Belarussians suffered the worst casualties but considering the whole population, these losses weren't as high as the case was with Jews.

I'd say European Jews, as a people, suffered most. 6 million out of, what, 8 million? Second were Poles, as Poland lost 15% percent of her population in the war. In sheer numbers Soviets, and most of all Belarussians suffered the worst casualties but considering the whole population, these losses weren't as high as the case was with Jews.

Don't forget Asia, which lost 15,000,000 civiilians from the Japanese. (Not including Japan, which adds more then a million to that.)

~~Snip~~

WWhere the fuck do they find these morons?:(

WWhere the fuck do they find these morons?:(

Well, they were kids who got the idea to organize it.

I think that explains it pretty well.

Sigh, At least do some ****ing research before declaring a holiday. Fought China indeed, They were on our side. Are they confused with the Korean War?

Sigh, At least do some ****ing research before declaring a holiday. Fought China indeed, They were on our side. Are they confused with the Korean War?

We didn't fight China then either, at least not directly.

Well, they were kids who got the idea to organize it.

I think that explains it pretty well.

If their ages were in double figures, I'm still disgusted

If their ages were in double figures, I'm still disgusted

Well...more like Teens, and yeah, it's disgusting.

We didn't fight China then either, at least not directly.

Explain that, please.

This week, we had Holocaust Memorial Week, and the stats they put out were...very historically inaccurate. I told the people organizing it, and they refused to correct any, and they refused to retract the very incorrect statement of "Jews suffered far more then anyone in World War II."

Who are 'they' in this instance?

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.
...

4. 10-11 million people died in the Holocaust, not 6 million.

As you say, their figures are seriously up the left.

Explain that, please.

It was indirect. We were both 'supporting' the North/South Korean nations. We never had an open war with China, not directly.

I'd say European Jews, as a people, suffered most. 6 million out of, what, 8 million?
16.6 million, I believe. About 30% of the entire Jewish population of the world was destroyed. In Europe, 50% to 95% of the Jews in each conquered state were exterminated (95% being the case of the Jews of Poland, almost three million of whom were killed.

It was indirect. We were both 'supporting' the North/South Korean nations. We never had an open war with China, not directly.

Well, there was definitely fighting between Chinese and UN forces. I think you played a bit too heavily with the semantics.

Well, there was definitely fighting between Chinese and UN forces. I think you played a bit too heavily with the semantics.

The UN was formed after WW2, a while after the discovery of the death camps. How could they have fought?

Or are you talking about the Korean War?

The UN was formed after WW2, a while after the discovery of the death camps. How could they have fought?

Or are you talking about the Korean War?

He was talking about Korea.

He was talking about Korea.

Ah, I see. Never mind then.

The UN was formed after WW2, a while after the discovery of the death camps. How could they have fought?

Or are you talking about the Korean War?

Yeah, I was talking about Korea.

youve got to love the British royalty , as the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, out comes Harry to a party as a stormtrooper :p

Yeah, I was talking about Korea.

I noticed.

And it's spelt Auschwitz.

I noticed.

And it's spelt Auschwitz.

my shoddy typing skills would like to bestow upon their profuse apologies ;)

youve got to love the British royalty , as the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, out comes Harry to a party as a stormtrooper :p
At a private party with his friends, where he had no reason to expect it to be plastered all over the tabloids.

my shoddy typing skills would like to bestow upon their profuse apologies ;)

Pretty skilllful skils, as they apologize, apparently.

At a private party with his friends, where he had no reason to expect it to be plastered all over the tabloids.

was still funny as fuck though, i thought it was great and didnt see why people cared but was still funny

Pretty skilllful skils, as they apologize, apparently.


thats nothing you should see what my cynicism can do ;)

thats nothing you should see what my cynicism can do ;)

I don't think I want to.

At a private party with his friends, where he had no reason to expect it to be plastered all over the tabloids.

It was a fucking joke! It's not like he's actually a nazi, sheesh!

Sleezy tabloids will do anything for news.

It was a fucking joke! It's not like he's actually a nazi, sheesh!

Sleezy tabloids will do anything for news.
You completely misread my post.

It was a fucking joke! It's not like he's actually a nazi, sheesh!
:(

How very sad. I personally think that America will fall due to stupidty and not from some outside force. This just helps to rienforce that theory.

... (95% being the case of the Jews of Poland, almost three million of whom were killed.A lot of poles were killed indeed and many of them were Jews...there is no proof about what percentage were Jews...All numbers advanced by Hollywood/media and the "history" books are speculation.

How about instead of ignoring the death for the sake of your own self-rightous victory you remember those millions that died in your own way. Yes, it is tragic that history is distorted by the ignorant. But that doesn't mean you are releaved from your obligation as a human being to reflect on one of humanities darkest hours.

But that doesn't mean you are releaved from your obligation ....I just boycott any enforced memorial day...Obligation...enforced...

People should be free to participate...Or NOT.

16.6 million, I believe.

These sources disagree with you. Where are yours?

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm (upper range of 4.8M)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust (5-6M)

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/tldeaths.html (this one disputes the 6M total and sets it lower)

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.html (A 6.25M high mark)

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.

400,000 seems to be relatively close to how many Americans (alone) were killed in WWII.

400,000 seems to be relatively close to how many Americans (alone) were killed in WWII.Interesting...so how many US deaths?

also I heard that there were a lot of European death from epidemics...not as much as in WW1...but still huge numbers...the hospital were overwhelmed...

This week, we had Holocaust Memorial Week, and the stats they put out were...very historically inaccurate. I told the people organizing it, and they refused to correct any, and they refused to retract the very incorrect statement of "Jews suffered far more then anyone in World War II." I was also very offended by their defense of Soviet Atrocities and Joseph Stalin, as well as the fact they didn't research anything at all. I was also offended how all they talked about were Jews being killed in Death Camps, whiled they ignored the Polish, the Gays, the Communists, Men of Religion, and etc, the Examples are...

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.

2. The Gestapo did not run the Concentration Camps.

3. WE DID NOT FIGHT CHINA IN WORLD WAR II!!!

4. 10-11 million people died in the Holocaust, not 6 million.

5. German POW camps were not Death Camps. The average German POW Camp had close to a 95% survival rate, (for the Allied Forces, not the Soviet Union, as they did not sign the Geneva Convention, so actually, Germany abided by the Geneva Convention.)

6. GERMANY NEVER INVADED SWITZERLAND!!!

And there are tons more. I can't even finish them all. I'm generally open to reason, but they ignored me, so I simply held a peaceful boycott.


Why I don't normally agree with your standpoint, if they have in fact made these glaring errors I can understand your wish to not partake

These sources disagree with you. Where are yours?

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm (upper range of 4.8M)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust (5-6M)

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/tldeaths.html (this one disputes the 6M total and sets it lower)

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.html (A 6.25M high mark)


he was saying 16.6 million was the total number of jewish people in the world, of which around 6 million died. Read it again.

I'd say European Jews, as a people, suffered most. 6 million out of, what, 8 million?

6 million out of 11 million. Which is still just as bad. :(

The only memorial I personally recognize is November 11th.

Most revolting of all i find is peoples assosiation of communism with nazism. I'm a socialist and my friends call me a communist because of it. I can't tell you how many people at my school have called me a nazi becuase they thought the two terms were synonymous, you know, you could say the nazis thought communism and judaism were synonymous (in some ways, lots of jews were communists). Now people, because of the soviet union i suppose, perhaps, i don't really know, ignorant people see communism and nazism as synonymous, maybe it's just the area i live in.

Nope, you'll find similar levels of ignorance throughout the U.S. Because our "liberal" media pretends that there are only a tiny range of legitimate ideological viewpoints, everything else gets slopped together, from genuine libertarianism and anarchism to socialism to Leninism to fascism.

he was saying 16.6 million was the total number of jewish people in the world, of which around 6 million died. Read it again.intersting numbers...

i did a Yahoo-search for <<"16.6 million" holocaust<<

and I found this interesting pictures
http://christianparty.net/holocaust4.gif
This was the plaque on display at the Auschwitz camp until 1989: note the "4 million" victims.

http://christianparty.net/holocaust5.gif
This is the plaque currently on display at Auschwitz (2002)

- note the suddenly reduced number of victims to 1.5 million -

a casual reduction in the number of deaths by 2.5 million which never appeared in the American "free press"

At a private party with his friends, where he had no reason to expect it to be plastered all over the tabloids.

If the little twit claims to be a "Prince" he has no right to any expectation of privacy when he does such vile things. He'd better look out; look at his Great-Uncle, who was deposed for being too blatantly a Nazi sympathizer ("To be with the woman I love" my left buttock!)

These sources disagree with you. Where are yours?

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm (upper range of 4.8M)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust (5-6M)

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/tldeaths.html (this one disputes the 6M total and sets it lower)

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.html (A 6.25M high mark)
Still at it, I see?

Monkeypimp's reply summed it up nicely. Read before you post.

OceanDrive- the same applies to you. There is a noticeable difference in the wording of both plaques- can you spot it?

OceanDrive- the same applies to you. There is a noticeable difference in the wording of both plaques- can you spot it?yes I can...can you?

someone changed the numbers from 4 million to 1.5 million

2.5 holocaust victims have vanished and the American "free press" will not talk about it....

A lot of poles were killed indeed and many of them were Jews...there is no proof about what percentage were Jews...All numbers advanced by Hollywood/media and the "history" books are speculation.
Another case of "read before you post". What I was saying is that out of all Jews who lived in Poland, close to 95% were killed. It does not mean that 95% of all people killed in Poland were Jews... unless you're OceanDrive2, in which case logic does not apply.

Another case of "read before you post". What I was saying is that out of all Jews who lived in Poland, close to 95% were killed. It does not mean that 95% of all people killed in Poland were Jews... unless you're OceanDrive2, in which case logic does not apply.your logic is that you advance all kind of percentages...and we have to accept them as if there were facts.

there is no proof for the percentages of Jews...without proof, all percentages advanced by either side are speculations.

Let me ask you a simple question. How many Jews was there in Poland before the war?

your logic is that you advance all kind of percentages...and we have to accept them as if there were facts.

there is no proof for the percentages of Jews...without proof, all percentages advanced by either side are speculations.

Let me ask you a simple question. How many Jews was there in Poland before the war?
According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland):

as Poland regained independence in the 20th century, immediately prior to World War II it had a vibrant Jewish community of over three million, one of the largest in the world. Most of them, over 90%, were killed by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust.

Which means that 50% or more of all Jews who perished in the Holocaust were from Poland.

there is no proof for the percentages of Jews...without proof, all percentages advanced by either side are speculations.Oh, but there is proof. Most percentages are based on reading through the documentation that the Nazis didn't manage to burn in time. Bureaucratic as they were, they wrote down and filed what they did to whom how many times. It was used extensively against them in the Nürnberg Trials.

And the Russians suffered the worst number of deaths.

if i recall there were more russian civilian deaths than russian soldier deaths

Still at it, I see?

Monkeypimp's reply summed it up nicely. Read before you post.

The error has been noted. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

This week, we had Holocaust Memorial Week, and the stats they put out were...very historically inaccurate. I told the people organizing it, and they refused to correct any, and they refused to retract the very incorrect statement of "Jews suffered far more then anyone in World War II." I was also very offended by their defense of Soviet Atrocities and Joseph Stalin, as well as the fact they didn't research anything at all. I was also offended how all they talked about were Jews being killed in Death Camps, whiled they ignored the Polish, the Gays, the Communists, Men of Religion, and etc, the Examples are...

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.

2. The Gestapo did not run the Concentration Camps.

3. WE DID NOT FIGHT CHINA IN WORLD WAR II!!!

4. 10-11 million people died in the Holocaust, not 6 million.

5. German POW camps were not Death Camps. The average German POW Camp had close to a 95% survival rate, (for the Allied Forces, not the Soviet Union, as they did not sign the Geneva Convention, so actually, Germany abided by the Geneva Convention.)

6. GERMANY NEVER INVADED SWITZERLAND!!!

And there are tons more. I can't even finish them all. I'm generally open to reason, but they ignored me, so I simply held a peaceful boycott.

The purity of your smug intellectual superiority is clearly of far more importance than the rememberance of the Holocaust itself. :eek: Precision is much much better than the best intentions of mourning the victims of the Holocaust, honoring their memory, and reminding ourselves to avoid the same mistakes. :rolleyes:

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland):
...
Which means that 50% or more of all Jews who perished in the Holocaust were from Poland.Interesting Wiki Page...

Page about the History of Poland...but not aviable in Polish language...:confused:

only in 2 languages...US and Israel languages...

http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%94%D7%93%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9F


....
and all the known sources...are all Jewish...

This article incorporates text from the public domain 1901-1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

* Marek Jan Chodakiewicz, After the Holocaust, East European Monographs, 2003, ISBN 0880335114.
* Marek Jan Chodakiewicz, Between Nazis and Soviets: Occupation Politics in Poland, 1939-1947, Lexington Books, 2004, ISBN 0739104845.
* William W. Hagen, Before the "Final Solution": Toward a Comparative Analysis of Political Anti-Semitism in Interwar Germany and Poland, The Journal of Modern History, Vol. 68, No. 2 (Jun., 1996), 351-381.
* Gershon David Hundert, Jews in Poland-Lithuania in the Eighteenth Century: A Genealogy of Modernity, University of California Press, 2004, ISBN 0520238443.
* Antony Polonsky and Joanna B. Michlic. The Neighbors Respond: The Controversy over the Jedwabne Massacre in Poland, Princeton University Press, 2003 ISBN 0691113068. (The introduction is online)
* Ivo Cyprian Pogonowski, Jews in Poland. A Dcumentary History, Hippocrene Books, Inc., 1998, ISBN 0781806046.
* David Vital, A People Apart: A Political History of the Jews in Europe 1789-1939, Oxford University Press, 2001.
* M. J. Rosman, The Lord's Jews: Magnate-Jewish Relations in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth During the Eighteenth Century.

- note the suddenly reduced number of victims to 1.5 million -

a casual reduction in the number of deaths by 2.5 million which never appeared in the American "free press"
I s'pose that they got better. There is a precedent for a Jew not staying dead after being put in the ground.
Tricky bastards they are.

Interesting Wiki Page...

Page about the History of Poland...but not aviable in Polishlanguage...:confused:

only in 2 languages US and Israel languages...

http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%94%D7%93%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9F


....
and all the known sources...are all Jewish...

This article incorporates text from the public domain 1901-1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

* Marek Jan Chodakiewicz, After the Holocaust, East European Monographs, 2003, ISBN 0880335114.
* Marek Jan Chodakiewicz, Between Nazis and Soviets: Occupation Politics in Poland, 1939-1947, Lexington Books, 2004, ISBN 0739104845.
* William W. Hagen, Before the "Final Solution": Toward a Comparative Analysis of Political Anti-Semitism in Interwar Germany and Poland, The Journal of Modern History, Vol. 68, No. 2 (Jun., 1996), 351-381.
* Gershon David Hundert, Jews in Poland-Lithuania in the Eighteenth Century: A Genealogy of Modernity, University of California Press, 2004, ISBN 0520238443.
* Antony Polonsky and Joanna B. Michlic. The Neighbors Respond: The Controversy over the Jedwabne Massacre in Poland, Princeton University Press, 2003 ISBN 0691113068. (The introduction is online)
* Ivo Cyprian Pogonowski, Jews in Poland. A Dcumentary History, Hippocrene Books, Inc., 1998, ISBN 0781806046.
* David Vital, A People Apart: A Political History of the Jews in Europe 1789-1939, Oxford University Press, 2001.
* M. J. Rosman, The Lord's Jews: Magnate-Jewish Relations in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth During the Eighteenth Century.

1. Huh? Prove it.

2. ... and we all know we can't trust jews, don't we kiddies? *wipes foam from corner of mouth*

Oh, but there is proof. Most percentages are based on reading through the documentation that the Nazis didn't manage to burn in time. Bureaucratic as they were, they wrote down and filed what they did to whom how many times. It was used extensively against them in the Nürnberg Trials.so... can we asume those documents have Jpegs somewhere in the internet?

and all the known sources...are all Jewish...
And we all know that you can’t trust the dirty Jews. They’re just out to swindle us with usury. The holocaust is just a scam perpetuated by the Jewish controlled media. It never happened, and if it did, Jews weren’t the primary target. Never mind that the Nazis held Jews as the lowest form of humanity and wanted to rid them from the gene pool forever That’s just more propaganda. The Jews were actually in league with the Nazis, don’t you know.[/sarcasm]

so... can we asume those documents have Jpegs somewhere in the internet?
Why would people waste valuable interweb server space on something so silly as important documents? Do you have any idea how much pr0n could be hosted instead?

so... can we asume those documents have Jpegs somewhere in the internet?

*sigh*

Of course anyone that accepts the nigh-universal historical view of the Holocaust has the burden of proof -- not the one with a wacky conspiracy theory.

*sigh*

Of course anyone that accepts the nigh-universal historical view of the Holocaust has the burden of proof -- not the one with a wacky conspiracy theory.will I scramble to satisfy your demands for proof...I dont think so.

You say the holocaust happened the way Hollywood says it happened...
I say maybe...Maybe not.

You say they were 6 million...
You say they were almost all Jews...

...I still say maybe...maybe not...

You think I have the burden of proof because I am "one with a wacky conspiracy theory"

I say "You are free to think whatever you want....I don't give a damn"

Why would people waste valuable interweb server space on something so silly as important documents? Do you have any idea how much pr0n could be hosted instead?or MP3s torrents :D

will I scramble to satisfy your demands for proof...I dont think so.

You say the holocaust happened the way Hollywood says it happened...
I say maybe...Maybe not.

You say they were 6 million...
You say they were 90% Jews...the Poles, Romanians and others just 10%...

...I still say maybe...maybe not...

You think I have the burden of proof because I am "one with a wacky conspiracy theory"

I say "You are free to think whatever you want....I don't give a damn"

I say "toe-mah-toe" and you say "prove it isn't a hand grenade planted in your garden by the great Jewish conspiracy."

And you have to say, Gas Chambers are ALOT more humane then what the Japanese did in uh...everywhere in Asia...
Sorry, even if it's a more HUMANE death, I really can't call choking people to death humane.

I say "toe-mah-toe" and you say "prove it isn't a hand grenade planted in your garden by the great Jewish conspiracy."You say "Hol-lol-caust" and I say maybe.

You say "Hol-lol-caust" and I say maybe.

...

so... can we asume those documents have Jpegs somewhere in the internet?
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/nuremberg/index.php?action=docs

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/document.htm

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview

Knock yourself out

You say "Hol-lol-caust" and I say maybe.
Wouldn’t have pegged you as an anti-Semite or even a German apologist. Is this just so you can be even more fashionably non-conformist? It's awfully irritating.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/nuremberg/index.php?action=docs

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/document.htm

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview

Knock yourself out
Wow lots of info to sift through THANKS

Wouldn’t have pegged you as an anti-Semite or even a German apologist.You can "pegg" me anyway you want...
Do I consider myself anti-semite? No
I am not German...But I do think some of their top WW2 leaders "lost" it... (racism).Is this just so you can be even more fashionably non-conformist? It's awfully irritating.I am what I am...Fashion does not drive me.

I am what I am...Fashion does not drive me.
At least you didn’t say, “don't act like you know me.":p

I would wonder what the purpose of this thread is. Were you looking for congratulations because you had the courage to stand up to those evil Holocaust supporters? It's very good to see that you've completely missed the purpose of a Holocaust Memorial Week in your zealous effort to make sure everyone has the correct statistical information. I'll be sure to spit on your grandparents' graves next Veteran's day because someone I know once told me that the US lost more people in Vietnam than we actually did. That would be keeping in the spirit of things that you've established right here. Good job. You've casually dismissed the deaths of millions of people because some jerks at your high school couldn't read a book.

intersting numbers...

i did a Yahoo-search for <<"16.6 million" holocaust<<

and I found this interesting pictures
http://christianparty.net/holocaust4.gif
This was the plaque on display at the Auschwitz camp until 1989: note the "4 million" victims.

http://christianparty.net/holocaust5.gif
This is the plaque currently on display at Auschwitz (2002)

- note the suddenly reduced number of victims to 1.5 million -

a casual reduction in the number of deaths by 2.5 million which never appeared in the American "free press"


Downward revision aside, the literal statements on the two plaques are not contradictory or incompatible. The first says "4 million people suffered and died", while the second says "...murdered about one and a half million".

As a parallel if NS were to be advertised by a slogan which stated "100,000 people have come to create nations and flame each other on NSGeneral", the statement would not be rendered untrue by the fact that, say, only 10,000 actually went as far as using the General board.

There is an ambiguity, certainly.

This thread makes me sad in the pants.

Downward revision aside, the literal statements on the two plaques are not contradictory or incompatible. The first says "4 million people suffered and died", while the second says "...murdered about one and a half million".

As a parallel if NS were to be advertised by a slogan which stated "100,000 people have come to create nations and flame each other on NSGeneral", the statement would not be rendered untrue by the fact that, say, only 10,000 actually went as far as using the General board.The way I see it ...they are contradictory.

The Post War "estimate" was of 4 million deaths. (a number that someone probably pulled out of his hat)

The 4 million estimate was no longer holding water...so they "revised" it...2,5 million were "deducted"...enough to make an ENRON accountant blush...

...Actual Auschwitz records released by Russia show 74,000 death (not 1 or 4 millions)...at the most infamous Nazi hell hole.

...
Great numbers of innocent victims died in WW2..,Russians, Chinese and many others...

Jews and others were targeted by the the Nazi Gov (Racism)...It is a great crime indeed.

Nothing I say...or anyone says will change that.
Killing 100000 innocents or killing 100million innocents is still a horrible crime...still a genocide...multiple Genocides...

I'll add one thing. My oldest son is 12 and in 7th grade. This is the second year in a row he has had more than a week of Holacaust study. Its graphic and detailed. And its too much.
I hate what the Nazis did to the Jewish people-as well as homosexuals, blacks, retarded and a whole host of others that didnt fit in their view of the optimum society. If they exterminated 6 thousand or 6 million, its still reprehensible,disgusting and should never happen again. I have instilled that in my children before they even studied it in school.
But-this concentrated and detailed study of these horrors is not helping him anymore. Two days would have taught him the vaulable lesson-he wouldnt have particpated in a future that would have had this happen again. This extra detailed knowledge will not help him in life, will not help him get a better job.
I resent the lengths its gone to.

Terrible crimes on the same scale have occured in Russia,China, Cambodia, etc... We can all name atrocities off the tops of our heads. Wether it be 50 yrs ago or 500 yrs ago.

Teach my child how to help fellow humans. Dont lump horrible- yet true- stories on him. He has guilt now, where it doesnt belong. He is a direct decendant of several men that fought in WWII to destroy this evil. He has no ancestors that took part in persecuting Jews.

Dont waste anymore of our time or money concentrating disproportionately on this subject. My fear is that its creating resentment, rather than more compassion in some people.

This week, we had Holocaust Memorial Week, and the stats they put out were...very historically inaccurate. I told the people organizing it, and they refused to correct any, and they refused to retract the very incorrect statement of "Jews suffered far more then anyone in World War II." I was also very offended by their defense of Soviet Atrocities and Joseph Stalin, as well as the fact they didn't research anything at all. I was also offended how all they talked about were Jews being killed in Death Camps, whiled they ignored the Polish, the Gays, the Communists, Men of Religion, and etc, the Examples are...

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.

2. The Gestapo did not run the Concentration Camps.

3. WE DID NOT FIGHT CHINA IN WORLD WAR II!!!

4. 10-11 million people died in the Holocaust, not 6 million.

5. German POW camps were not Death Camps. The average German POW Camp had close to a 95% survival rate, (for the Allied Forces, not the Soviet Union, as they did not sign the Geneva Convention, so actually, Germany abided by the Geneva Convention.)

6. GERMANY NEVER INVADED SWITZERLAND!!!

And there are tons more. I can't even finish them all. I'm generally open to reason, but they ignored me, so I simply held a peaceful boycott.

3)Who didnt fight China?
4)Are you saying the Holocust killed 11 Million?
5)Germany didnt have to follow the Geneva Convention so its irrelevant how many Ivans they killed by Fair means or not.
6)So are you saying Germany didnt invade Switzerland?:confused:

3)Who didnt fight China?
4)Are you saying the Holocust killed 11 Million?
5)Germany didnt have to follow the Geneva Convention so its irrelevant how many Ivans they killed by Fair means or not.
6)So are you saying Germany didnt invade Switzerland?:confused:

The allies didn't fight China, japan did.
The holocaust didn't only involve jews.
Germany didn't invade switzerland in WW2.

6)So are you saying Germany didnt invade Switzerland?:confused:
Yes, that's exactly what he's saying.

The Germans sent spies into Switzerland to sabotage the Swiss air force. They got caught by the conductor on the train they took to Switzerland because they were so badly prepared for the mission...

The Germans sent spies into Switzerland to sabotage the Swiss air force. They got caught by the conductor on the train they took to Switzerland because they were so badly prepared for the mission...
They probably didn't have a translator with them. Defacation Eventuates.

This week, we had Holocaust Memorial Week, and the stats they put out were...very historically inaccurate. I told the people organizing it, and they refused to correct any, and they refused to retract the very incorrect statement of "Jews suffered far more then anyone in World War II." I was also very offended by their defense of Soviet Atrocities and Joseph Stalin, as well as the fact they didn't research anything at all. I was also offended how all they talked about were Jews being killed in Death Camps, whiled they ignored the Polish, the Gays, the Communists, Men of Religion, and etc, the Examples are...

1. 50-60 million people died in World War II (excluding the holocaust), not 400,000.

2. The Gestapo did not run the Concentration Camps.

3. WE DID NOT FIGHT CHINA IN WORLD WAR II!!!

4. 10-11 million people died in the Holocaust, not 6 million.

5. German POW camps were not Death Camps. The average German POW Camp had close to a 95% survival rate, (for the Allied Forces, not the Soviet Union, as they did not sign the Geneva Convention, so actually, Germany abided by the Geneva Convention.)

6. GERMANY NEVER INVADED SWITZERLAND!!!

And there are tons more. I can't even finish them all. I'm generally open to reason, but they ignored me, so I simply held a peaceful boycott.

These people were douchebags that had thier facts wrong.
Thats true.
But even your freedom to boycott anything, has a bit to do with the victims of that period.

They probably didn't have a translator with them. Defacation Eventuates.Nah, they didn't have valid tickets, all dressed the same, all had the same brand new money, and spread to different compartments. After the third or second pair, the conductor got suspicious.
I guess since they didn't have valid tickets, you could almost consider it an invasion. :D

The allies didn't fight China, japan did.
The holocaust didn't only involve jews.
Germany didn't invade switzerland in WW2.
Seriously Dude come on.:rolleyes:

Seriously Dude come on.:rolleyes:
What? All three things are correct, so what's your issue?

What? All three things are correct, so what's your issue?
No i meant that i didnt know.
I knew that stuff.
Would you realy expect me not to?

No i meant that i didnt know.
I knew that stuff.
Would you realy expect me not to?If you were American...:p

If you were American...:p
But you know i am not.
Arrgh really should have two ll's.:(

For whatever reason America thinks it needs to protect the Jews.
-Well thats the way i see it.
*wanders off to bed*

I'm not against remembering the atrocities of WW2. Far from it. But I'm very much for remembering it ALL.

The holocaust was not just "Nazis killing Jews". The Jews had admittedly the highest headcount in that nightmare, but they were by far not the only persecuted group.

3)Who didnt fight China?
4)Are you saying the Holocust killed 11 Million?
5)Germany didnt have to follow the Geneva Convention so its irrelevant how many Ivans they killed by Fair means or not.
6)So are you saying Germany didnt invade Switzerland?:confused:So was that All sarcasm ?

If it was...it was really misleading.

The way I see it ...they are contradictory.

The Post War "estimate" was of 4 million deaths. (a number that someone probably pulled out of his hat)

The 4 million estimate was no longer holding water...so they "revised" it...2,5 million were "deducted"...enough to make an ENRON accountant blush...

4 million suffered and died
1,5 million were murdered
thus, 2,5 million suffered

1,5 million murdered + 2,5 million suffered = 4 million suffered and died

Most likely, quite of the few who suffered died elsewhere a bit later. This puts the survival rate at about 50%.

4 million suffered and died
1,5 million were murdered
thus, 2,5 million suffered

1,5 million murdered + 2,5 million suffered = 4 million suffered and died

Most likely, quite of the few who suffered died elsewhere a bit later. This puts the survival rate at about 50%.crapola

So was that All sarcasm ?

If it was...it was really misleading.
Excellent.
*Twiddles Fingers*