NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, normally I'm totally in favour of freedom of expression and religion and I'm not keen on kids trick or treating (not the English way anyway) but this really is wrong.

http://www.chick.com/seasonal/halloween/default.asp

Apparantly the plan is to slip a few of his cartoons to every child who comes trick or treating. While I find most of his cartoons to be hilarious some of the tracts he suggests for young children are completely unsuitable (you can see them on the link, try the first comic on the 'young children' list) as they arent old enough to cope with ideas like that yet.

What are your views? Should it be illegal to target children with religous or political views until a certain age or would that be against freedom of speech?

Reminds me of how this one friend of mine got a tract concerning how this kid got separated from his brother, then the tract launches onto the most random tangent about how it relates to Jesus and salvation.

I don't think your poll options are mutually exclusive. It's bad to target children like this...but I wouldn't stop him doing it.

Any decent parent inspects their children's candy for dangerous substances like razors, glass, poison and cultish ultrafundamentalist nonsense. *nod*

I don't think your poll options are mutually exclusive. It's bad to target children like this...but I wouldn't stop him doing it.

Good point, can I edit it now or is it too late?

thats so scary lol

Any decent parent inspects their children's candy for dangerous substances like razors, glass, poison and cultish ultrafundamentalist nonsense. *nod*

True, but many of the cartoons start off normal and if the parent wasn't paying much attention it could easily slip by the parental radar.

If anyone had tried to slip me an ultra fundamentalist tract when I was trick or treating, my dad would have being round the house and given them a piece of their mind. Just because people like Jack Chick have the mental age of an 8 year old, doesn't mean they should try to target people with similar intellect levels.

I'm Christian and I raised my children to know and love God. They are carrying on this teaching with their children. But, what and how I teach my children is my responsibility. I would be just as offended if one of them had come home with one of those tracts as I would be if they came home with literature promoting another ideology. Also, the idea of using the barbaric practices of ancient cultures to frighten children with the dire consequences of celebrating a now harmless holiday is loathsome. The teacher's thought "I hate this brat" in the first tract for very small children is horrible. What a terrible thing to give a child the idea that the adults in their lives may not all care about them and are safe harbors of security and acceptance. These people would serve God and the welfare of children better if they counseled on safety while trick or treating or else throw a safe costume party.

-snip- These people would serve God and the welfare of children better if they counseled on safety while trick or treating or else throw a safe costume party.

Agreed.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1053/1053_01.asp

Is it just me or does Li'l Suzie's grandpa look suspiciously like Phil Ken Sebben from Harvey Birdman?

Ok, normally I'm totally in favour of freedom of expression and religion and I'm not keen on kids trick or treating (not the English way anyway) but this really is wrong.

http://www.chick.com/seasonal/halloween/default.asp

Apparantly the plan is to slip a few of his cartoons to every child who comes trick or treating. While I find most of his cartoons to be hilarious some of the tracts he suggests for young children are completely unsuitable (you can see them on the link, try the first comic on the 'young children' list) as they arent old enough to cope with ideas like that yet.

What are your views? Should it be illegal to target children with religous or political views until a certain age or would that be against freedom of speech?
Personally, I'm delighted that some crackpots are passing out Jack Chick tracts...there's no better way to show kids how nutty these beliefs are than to have them read Jack Chick!

There's also no better way to turn kids off to Christianity than to replace candy treats with religious cartoons in their treat-bags. A dentist on my block used to give us floss packets instead of candy on Halloween, and I would refuse to use floss at all for at least a month afterwards :).

Personally, I'm delighted that some crackpots are passing out Jack Chick tracts...there's no better way to show kids how nutty these beliefs are than to have them read Jack Chick!

There's also no better way to turn kids off to Christianity than to replace candy treats with religious cartoons in their treat-bags. A dentist on my block used to give us floss packets instead of candy on Halloween, and I would refuse to use floss at all for at least a month afterwards :).

What a dumb dentist! If I were a dentist, I'd give out the biggest, sugariest, gooiest treats I could find. And cola. Lots of cola. :D

What a dumb dentist! If I were a dentist, I'd give out the biggest, sugariest, gooiest treats I could find. And cola. Lots of cola. :D
Hey, I understand what he was trying to do (the dentist, that is), but you just don't mess with a kid's candy supply. There's only one day a year we're allowed to ask strangers for free candy, and God help anybody who tries to get in the way of that joyous experience!

I'm a Christian, but it's one thing to put in something about Jesus loves you and quite another to put in something about kids dissapearing around halloween for human sacrifice. I would be upset if I had kids and they recieved some of these. These messages are decieving. Halloween is no longer about human sacrifice (and I highly doubt their claim that it ever was).

It's funny, when I was a kid my dad had a friend at work that gave these cartoon strips to him and encouraged him to give them to his kids. He knew it wad fundamentalist stuff, but he gave it to me anyway. He's agnostic and doesn't care one way or another. Perhaps he even thought they were so rediculous they were funny. I still remember them. They sort of turned me off of Christianity (maybe that's why my dad gave them to me. I should ask him). They turned me away from Christanity so much I still remember them today. One said something to the extent that reincarnation would mean that it is okay to kill things because they would just come back to life anyway. They basically argued it can't be true because it's a dangerous belief. Another was about evolution and was talking about how silly it is that we come from monkies. It then went on to say that scientists just make up stuff and things like that.

Anyway, I learned that not all Christians are morons and eventually became a Christian myself. I don't believe that these cartoons should be banned. I think parents just need to be diligent. People always target the children with propaganda.

Jack Chick offers children cartoons for Halloween

So do I ...

http://bellend.strtok.net/~tyler/cthulhu/13.jpg

http://bellend.strtok.net/~tyler/cthulhu/

Give it to everyone.

Chick really has some obsession with drugs. That Thanksgiving one was hilarious.

"I have some PCP and crack, who wants some?"

Then there was the cell where the Pilgrims were in Holland and some lady was standing in a field with tulips with wooden shoes on and windmills in the background. This is comedy gold.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1053/1053_01.asp

Is it just me or does Li'l Suzie's grandpa look suspiciously like Phil Ken Sebben from Harvey Birdman?

Ha ha! Body in a wood chipper.

"As one who is a former "vampire," now set free by the power of the Cross of Christ"
http://www.chick.com/seasonal/halloween/vampireletter.asp


HEH!!! I... uh... HA HA! Um.... errrr.... Ha HA!!!

I'm Christian and I raised my children to know and love God. They are carrying on this teaching with their children. But, what and how I teach my children is my responsibility. I would be just as offended if one of them had come home with one of those tracts as I would be if they came home with literature promoting another ideology. Also, the idea of using the barbaric practices of ancient cultures to frighten children with the dire consequences of celebrating a now harmless holiday is loathsome. The teacher's thought "I hate this brat" in the first tract for very small children is horrible. What a terrible thing to give a child the idea that the adults in their lives may not all care about them and are safe harbors of security and acceptance. These people would serve God and the welfare of children better if they counseled on safety while trick or treating or else throw a safe costume party.
Hi, Zooke! ( HUG )

I taught my children to think and gave them permission to do so. After each of them reached the age of 12 or so, I was satisfied that they were capable of making rational, logical, fact-based decisions should they elect to do so. Once they reached 18 or so, I tried very hard to never reprove them for making their own decisions about things. If they wanted my advice, I would offer it, but I never said "I told you so." They often came back to me and said, "You were right about this or that. I should have listened better." :)

I love the tract where there are hordes of Romans bedecked in Ankhs XD

I'm a Christian, but it's one thing to put in something about Jesus loves you and quite another to put in something about kids dissapearing around halloween for human sacrifice. I would be upset if I had kids and they recieved some of these. These messages are decieving. Halloween is no longer about human sacrifice (and I highly doubt their claim that it ever was).

It's funny, when I was a kid my dad had a friend at work that gave these cartoon strips to him and encouraged him to give them to his kids. He knew it wad fundamentalist stuff, but he gave it to me anyway. He's agnostic and doesn't care one way or another. Perhaps he even thought they were so rediculous they were funny. I still remember them. They sort of turned me off of Christianity (maybe that's why my dad gave them to me. I should ask him). They turned me away from Christanity so much I still remember them today. One said something to the extent that reincarnation would mean that it is okay to kill things because they would just come back to life anyway. They basically argued it can't be true because it's a dangerous belief. Another was about evolution and was talking about how silly it is that we come from monkies. It then went on to say that scientists just make up stuff and things like that.

Anyway, I learned that not all Christians are morons and eventually became a Christian myself. I don't believe that these cartoons should be banned. I think parents just need to be diligent. People always target the children with propaganda.
Ah! A Christian with a brain! How refreshing! :)

bet the people handing out cartoons instead of candy will have fun being egged by every kid on the block:D

its vigilante justice

Folks confuse the people who spread this kind of paranoia with Christian doctrine and belief merely because they claim to be Christians. They are the equivilant of any other ideological group that push their beliefs through fear and intimidation. That is not what Christianity, Judaism, Islam, B'hai, or any of the other major religions teach. Their message is one of love, caring for each other as brothers and sisters, living an honest and fair life, and appreciating the unique differences in each of us. The stereotyping of Christians as just such fanatics is one of the things that frustrates me the most.

Folks confuse the people who spread this kind of paranoia with Christian doctrine and belief merely because they claim to be Christians. They are the equivilant of any other ideological group that push their beliefs through fear and intimidation. That is not what Christianity, Judaism, Islam, B'hai, or any of the other major religions teach. Their message is one of love, caring for each other as brothers and sisters, living an honest and fair life, and appreciating the unique differences in each of us. The stereotyping of Christians as just such fanatics is one of the things that frustrates me the most.

Agreed, I sometimes wonder why people ASSUME that everyone claiming to be a Christian is actually someone bent on forcing everyone on their knees to their views with diobolicall plans of world domination. You get the idea.

Hey, Zooke, did I know you? Your name rings a very big bell....

Folks confuse the people who spread this kind of paranoia with Christian doctrine and belief merely because they claim to be Christians. They are the equivilant of any other ideological group that push their beliefs through fear and intimidation. That is not what Christianity, Judaism, Islam, B'hai, or any of the other major religions teach. Their message is one of love, caring for each other as brothers and sisters, living an honest and fair life, and appreciating the unique differences in each of us. The stereotyping of Christians as just such fanatics is one of the things that frustrates me the most.
I also learned from him that all Christians are former vampires.

I'd set him on fire and whack him with a stick.

Hey, Zooke, did I know you? Your name rings a very big bell....

I don't know. I'm an accountant living in the Little Rock area. Zooke is short for Zookeeper and if you saw my house you would know why!

I also learned from him that all Christians are former vampires.

I haven't read any but the first tract, choosing to make some oatmeal date walnut cookies, instead, but let me guess. They're equating the Eucharist with vampirism.

Ah! A Christian with a brain! How refreshing! :)

That's pretty unfair.

The majority of Christians have brains, and actually use them, and are not bleary-eyed dogma zombies. It is unfortunate that the "lunatic fringe" is the faction of Christianity which gets most of the press, appearing to the masses as the representative sample.

As reprehensible as Jack Chick's chosen method of evangelism is, to censor it, to attempt to remove or supress it is every bit as wrong as any fundy attempt to censor, remove or otherwise supress movies, television shows and music. The instant that you give the thumbs up to condemning Chick's guaranteed right to publish this crap, you are, in fact, sending a message that the arbitrary removal of expression which is deemed objectionable by one group or another is acceptable.

Personally, I'd much rather indulge Chick's evangelical folly then to ever have to suffer the moralizing of another PMRC, CAPAlert.com, or American Family Association which succeeds in limiting or restricting my choices at the First Amendment Buffet.

It's free speech, so deal with it.

Personally, I rather enjoy reading Chick's tracts. Not only is he an apologist who is an embarassment to the fundamentalists, his work is monster laughs.

If this (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0066/0066_01.asp) isn't good for a laugh, I'll hand in my pentagram.

That's pretty unfair.

The majority of Christians have brains, and actually use them, and are not bleary-eyed dogma zombies. It is unfortunate that the "lunatic fringe" is the faction of Christianity which gets most of the press, appearing to the masses as the representative sample.

As reprehensible as Jack Chick's chosen method of evangelism is, to censor it, to attempt to remove or supress it is every bit as wrong as any fundy attempt to censor, remove or otherwise supress movies, television shows and music. The instant that you give the thumbs up to condemning Chick's guaranteed right to publish this crap, you are, in fact, sending a message that the arbitrary removal of expression which is deemed objectionable by one group or another is acceptable.

Personally, I'd much rather indulge Chick's evangelical folly then to ever have to suffer the moralizing of another PMRC, CAPAlert.com, or American Family Association which succeeds in limiting or restricting my choices at the First Amendment Buffet.

It's free speech, so deal with it.

Personally, I rather enjoy reading Chick's tracts. Not only is he an apologist who is an embarassment to the fundamentalists, his work is monster laughs.

If this (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0066/0066_01.asp) isn't good for a laugh, I'll hand in my pentagram.

There has to be a line drawn when our right to free speech is used as a tool to influence our children. While a dentist handing out dental floss is a harmless attempt to encourage children to practice good dental care after chowing down a few pounds of sugar, this guy is advocating distributing disturbing and frightening literature to impressionable children, with no respect for their parent's wishes or beliefs. A child is naturally curious and will probably explore ideologies other than their parent's. There is no excuse for the horrid scare tactics of this guy and his cult.

That's pretty unfair.

The majority of Christians have brains, and actually use them, and are not bleary-eyed dogma zombies. It is unfortunate that the "lunatic fringe" is the faction of Christianity which gets most of the press, appearing to the masses as the representative sample.

As reprehensible as Jack Chick's chosen method of evangelism is, to censor it, to attempt to remove or supress it is every bit as wrong as any fundy attempt to censor, remove or otherwise supress movies, television shows and music. The instant that you give the thumbs up to condemning Chick's guaranteed right to publish this crap, you are, in fact, sending a message that the arbitrary removal of expression which is deemed objectionable by one group or another is acceptable.

Personally, I'd much rather indulge Chick's evangelical folly then to ever have to suffer the moralizing of another PMRC, CAPAlert.com, or American Family Association which succeeds in limiting or restricting my choices at the First Amendment Buffet.

It's free speech, so deal with it.

Personally, I rather enjoy reading Chick's tracts. Not only is he an apologist who is an embarassment to the fundamentalists, his work is monster laughs.

If this (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0066/0066_01.asp) isn't good for a laugh, I'll hand in my pentagram.

I particuarly liked the warning at the end of that cartoon.:)

And yes, I quite like Chick's cartoons too and I wouldn't want to stop him publishing them. My objection is to his urging people to give out some very disturbing cartoons to children who are too young to handle them.

There has to be a line drawn when our right to free speech is used as a tool to influence our children.


By the same token you've offered, it can easily be argued, because Chick has used free speech to influence children, that pundits who use free speech to influence stupid people ( you know, a large percentage of the American electorate) who don't, can't or won't take the time to think through things for themselves must also be silenced. So, if we shut down Chick, we also shut down Michael Moore, Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, Molly Ivins, and every other blathering partisan pundit for leading the mindless to some unconsidered political conclusion.

Secondly, there needs to be some sort of parental responsibility when considering the influence of Jack Chick's work on children. Parents, not the government, need to be the intervening power. The last thing we need is the government making more decisions in regard to what anyone can or cannot publish, or read.

I'm sorry, you're just dead wrong. Let Chick write what he wants. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't want your kids exposed to it, then be a parent, and make sure that they're not, and if, by chance, they are exposed to it, explain to them why it's not something worthy of consideration.

There need be no invitation extended to anyone who advocates censorship of any stripe.

Hi, Zooke! ( HUG )

I taught my children to think and gave them permission to do so. After each of them reached the age of 12 or so, I was satisfied that they were capable of making rational, logical, fact-based decisions should they elect to do so. Once they reached 18 or so, I tried very hard to never reprove them for making their own decisions about things. If they wanted my advice, I would offer it, but I never said "I told you so." They often came back to me and said, "You were right about this or that. I should have listened better." :)

Hey Eut. I missed seeing your post until just now. Hope you noted:

I MADE COOKIES!!:p

Speaking for a different lunatic fringe of Christianity (OK so it's actually quite centrist but many Americans seem to think I'm a loonie because we're not bible-thumpers, go figure) I say let him!

His stuff is below the level of the Beano, I remember tossing several similar cartoons as a kid because they were awful. I'm betting that's a common response.

Even if it isn't no smart parent will let their kids near that kind of crap. And of course, the older trick-or-treaters will exact a sufficient vengeance

By the same token you've offered, it can easily be argued, because Chick has used free speech to influence children, that pundits who use free speech to influence stupid people ( you know, a large percentage of the American electorate) who don't, can't or won't take the time to think through things for themselves must also be silenced. So, if we shut down Chick, we also shut down Michael Moore, Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, Molly Ivins, and every other blathering partisan pundit for leading the mindless to some unconsidered political conclusion.

Secondly, there needs to be some sort of parental responsibility when considering the influence of Jack Chick's work on children. Parents, not the government, need to be the intervening power. The last thing we need is the government making more decisions in regard to what anyone can or cannot publish, or read.

I'm sorry, you're just dead wrong. Let Chick write what he wants. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't want your kids exposed to it, then be a parent, and make sure that they're not, and if, by chance, they are exposed to it, explain to them why it's not something worthy of consideration.

There need be no invitation extended to anyone who advocates censorship of any stripe.

Where did I say that I thought Chick should be censored? Exactly nowhere. I have been saying that he and his people giving this stuff to children is out of line, that parents need to safeguard their children from being exposed to harmful influence, and that if he and his followers really followed Christian teachings they would be handling Halloween entirely different. I have no problem with his writing whatever he wants. I don't have to read it and I hope other parents and grandparents become aware of the insiduous tactics that he is using.

I don't know. I'm an accountant living in the Little Rock area. Zooke is short for Zookeeper and if you saw my house you would know why!

Ah.....ok. I think your popular, thats why it rung a bell. Well, if its the first time talkin', nice to meet cha.

Ah.....ok. I think your popular, thats why it rung a bell. Well, if its the first time talkin', nice to meet cha.

I don't know if I'm popular...more like one of those itches that just won't go away for long.

Just goes to show parents should always check what their children bring home at halloween, you never know what kind of poison people sneak in ;)

Where did I say that I thought Chick should be censored? Exactly nowhere.


Exactly here:

There has to be a line drawn when our right to free speech is used as a tool to influence our children.

If you don't want to have your intent mistaken, be specific. That line reads like Chick needs to be prevented from publishing or distributing his wares.

Again, so long as it doesn't contain content that is illegal for children to see, then he, and his followers, should be free to distribute them. It's what the Framers had in mind with the First Amendment.

.....unless it's your contention that it should be illegal for children to read Chick's publications.

I used to pass out tracts on halloween, but not Jack Chicks, his tracts are mostly a joke around my conservative Christian friends. There is no way we would hand those out.

I don't let my kids go trick or treat but if I did that would be one of the things I would pull out of their bag before letting them dig in, the message is okay, but the way he tries to present it is wrong [/opinion]

Exactly here:



If you don't want to have your intent mistaken, be specific. That line reads like Chick needs to be prevented from publishing or distributing his wares.

Again, so long as it doesn't contain content that is illegal for children to see, then he, and his followers, should be free to distribute them. It's what the Framers had in mind with the First Amendment.

.....unless it's your contention that it should be illegal for children to read Chick's publications.

A person has the right to say or publish what he wishes (so long as it is not a physical threat against a person or group), but, an adult does not have the right to assault a child with intimidation and fear through their words.

I like the one where they claim vampires are real and that one of their members is a "recovered vampire".:D It's pretty sad when the claims of real Christian fundamentalists are even more absurd than the over-the-top parodies of them.

This makes baby Jesus cry...

Baby Jesus'd be dressed like a goblin and racking up the take just like any other. Like Superman, he didn't find out about his amazing mutant ability to multiply fish 'til after his Dad's ghost told him out in the desert - when he was an post-adolescent, acne-scarred dude who couldn't get laid if he tried.

Wow, it really does read like a comicbook, don't it?

Parents have the right to censor the shit their children see. That means movies, tv shows, barney videos:) and this kind of crap. Were I to find something like this in my kid's goodie bag, I would toss it out like the garbage it is, AND make an issue of it to the person who gave it out. To 'make myself clear' I'm not talking about government interference. I'm talking about MY interference.

I thought for the longest time that Jack Chick WAS a parody. I still can't accept that he isn't...

Parents have the right to censor the shit their children see. That means movies, tv shows, barney videos:) and this kind of crap. Were I to find something like this in my kid's goodie bag, I would toss it out like the garbage it is, AND make an issue of it to the person who gave it out. To 'make myself clear' I'm not talking about government interference. I'm talking about MY interference.
Did you ever read the 'tract' I built from filching frames from Jack Chick's website?

Did you ever read the 'tract' I built from filching frames from Jack Chick's website?
No...but I must!

Parents have the right to censor the shit their children see. That means movies, tv shows, barney videos:) and this kind of crap. Were I to find something like this in my kid's goodie bag, I would toss it out like the garbage it is, AND make an issue of it to the person who gave it out. To 'make myself clear' I'm not talking about government interference. I'm talking about MY interference.

Doesn't it seem like there is some way that a standing law can be applied to foisting this stuff off on innocent children? Isn't there some statute that protects kids from adults who want to terrorize them into submitting to their way of thinking?

A parent or guardian has the right to teach their child this philosophy if they want. But are they allowed to do it through fear tactics? Isn't this a form of abuse?

Doesn't it seem like there is some way that a standing law can be applied to foisting this stuff off on innocent children? Isn't there some statute that protects kids from adults who want to terrorize them into submitting to their way of thinking?
You would think so...I can't see freedom of religion making this untouchable...imagine a secular version about getting STDs from slides in parks...surely that could be challenged?

A parent or guardian has the right to teach their child this philosophy if they want. But are they allowed to do it through fear tactics? Isn't this a form of abuse?
I doubt you could stop a parent or guardian from being able to teach their children what they want....but a stranger? That would seem like another issue altogether.

No...but I must!
And so you SHALL!

Where's My Toilet Paper, Damnit? (http://homepage.mac.com/gmst/jpage1.html)

I'm on a roll, this is probably the second or third thread I've managed to kill today.

Flibble.

I'm on a roll, this is probably the second or third thread I've managed to kill today.

Flibble.
All hail Dobbs, slayer of threads!:D

I'm sure getting educational cartoon strips with fire and brimstone instead of candy is going to be really popular, anyway...